April 16, 2024

♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.

A WORLD ON TENDERHOOKS AS ISRAEL DECIDES HOW TO RESPOND TO IRAN.

FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY MARK ESPER JOINS US.

>>> THEN -- >> Translator: THE REGION CANNOT STAND SUCH TENSION.

>> IN THE MIDST OF THE CRISIS, MY CONVERSATION WITH IRAN'S PRIME MINISTER AFTER MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN.

>>> IN HIS FIRST TELEVISION INTERVIEW AS IRELAND'S NEW TAOISEACH, SIMON HARRIS ON THE WAR IN GAZA AND IRELAND'S PLANS TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD.

>>> BUSINESS AS USUAL IS NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE.

>> STORIES FROM THE FRONT LINES OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

AUTHOR JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN WHY MALL TOWN AMERICA COULD BE THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE.

♪♪ >> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

ISRAEL'S WAR CABINET MET AGAIN TODAY.

IN TEHRAN, PRESIDENT RAISI WARNS EVEN THE SMALLEST OF ACTIONS WOULD BE MET WITH A PAINFUL RESPONSE.

THE UNITED STATES IS URGING CAUTION AND CALM, ALONG WITH THE EU.

DEFENSE SECRETARY LLOYD AUSTIN SAID THE U.S. GOAL IS REGIONAL STABILITY.

PRESIDENT BIDEN IS TRYING TO AVOID BEING DRAGGED INTO ANOTHER WAR IN THE MIDDLE EAST, ESPECIALLY IN AN ELECTION YEAR.

HIS CHIEF POLITICAL RIVAL, DONALD TRUMP, IS TRYING TO USE THIS CRISIS TO HIS OWN ADVANTAGE SAYING THAT IT WOULDN'T HAVE HAPPENED IF HE WERE IN OFFICE.

OF COURSE, HE ISN'T IN OFFICE OR EVEN ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THESE DAYS.

HE IS IN A MANHATTAN COURTROOM AS JURY SELECTION CONTINUES FOR THE HUSH MONEY TRIAL AGAINST HIM.

JOINING ME NOW ON ALL OF THIS IS MARK ESPER, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

HE SERVES ON THE BOARD OR AS STRATEGIC ADVISOR FOR A HANDFUL OF AEROSPACE AND DEFENSE-RELATED COMPANIES.

WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

>> AS THEY CONTINUE THEIR DELIBERATIONS IN ISRAEL, WE HAVE HEARD FROM THE ISRAELI AMBASSADOR HERE WHO TOLD A RADIO THE IDEA IS NOT REVENGE.

THE IDEA IS DETERRENCE.

WHAT DO YOU EXPECT ISRAEL TO DO?

DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO SOMETHING BIG, MEDIUM, OR SMALL?

>> WELL, LOOK, YOU KNOW THE CULTURE OF THE REGION.

YOU ALSO KNOW -- YOUR VIEWERS DO, TOO, THAT ISRAEL SAID BEFORE THE ATTACK THAT IF IRAN ATTACKS ISRAEL PROPER, THAT ISRAEL WOULD ATTACK PROPER AS WELL.

THEY WILL HAVE TO RESPOND.

IF NOT, THIS ATTACK BY IRAN AND GOING BACK IN THE 45 YEARS SINCE RELATIONS BROKE DOWN BETWEEN IRAN AND REALLY THE REST OF THE WORLD IN 1979, THIS THE FIRST EVER ATTACK, IRAN WILL CHANGE THE PARADIGM FOREVER.

ISRAEL WILL FACE A NEW TYPE OF THREAT, NOT UNLIKE WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN UNDERGOING WITH HAMAS FOR THE LAST 10, 20, 30 YEARS WHERE THEY ARE UNDER THE CONSTANT THREAT OF SOME ROCKET ASSAULT OR BARRAGE.

THEY HAVE TO RESPOND FORCEFULLY.

I SUSPECT IT WILL BE A COMBINATION OF KINETIC AND CYBER.

THEY WANT TO HOLD THIS COALITION TOGETHER THE BEST THEY CAN.

WHEN IT COMES TO IRAN, THIS IS A LONG-TERM PLAY AGAINST THE ISLAMIC REGIME, WHICH HAS BEEN SOWING MAYHEM FOR 45 YEARS.

>> I WAS SPEAKING TO A FORMER U.S.

AMBASSADOR TO ISRAEL AND AMBASSADOR TO EGYPT.

HE WAS ON THE PROGRAM LAST NIGHT.

I ASKED HIM -- HE THOUGHT ISRAEL WOULD RESPOND.

I ASKED HIM ABOUT THE -- STARTING ANOTHER CYCLE OF RETALIATION AND WHERE, IN FACT, DOES IT STOP.

FURTHERMORE, I ASKED, THE UNITED STATES, PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYS HE DOESN'T WANT TO GET INVOLVED.

HE IS NOT GOING ON THE OFFENSE AGAINST IRAN.

THE AMBASSADOR SUGGESTED THE U.S. MIGHT BE PULLED INTO IT.

LET ME PLAY THIS.

>> WE'RE NOT REALLY IN CONTROL OF THE SITUATION.

THE DEGREE OF AMERICAN INFLUENCE IS LIMITED BY THE FACT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION SIMPLY DOES NOT WANT TO LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF ARMS AND THE KIND OF ARMS THAT WE'RE PROVIDING TO ISRAEL.

SO AS LONG AS WE HAVE THOSE TWO CONSTRAINTS, WE ARE REALLY IN A WATCHING AND HOPEFUL MODE.

BUT THAT'S NOT REALLY GOING TO BE DISPOSITIVE IN TERMS OF WHAT HAPPENS NEXT.

>> SO WATCHFUL AND HOPEFUL.

HE DID SAY THAT HE COULDN'T SEE THE U.S.

STAYING OUT OF IT, IF, IN FACT, ISRAEL DOES GO TO WAR WITH IRAN AND IT ESCALATES.

DO YOU THINK THE ADMINISTRATION WILL BE DRAGGED IN?

>> A FEW THINGS.

FIRST, NOBODY WANTS A WIDER REGIONAL WAR.

WE ARGUABLY ARE ON THE PRECIPICE OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK PRESIDENT BIDEN MADE A MISTAKE BY MAKING A MILITARY OPTION OFF THE TABLE AND A MISTAKE BY PUBLICALLY CALLING -- TELLING IRAN -- OR TELLING ISRAEL, I'M SORRY, TO NOT ACT, TO TAKE THE WIN.

I THINK IT SHOWS LACK OF RESOLVE.

THAT PLAYS INTO HOW IRAN WILL BE THINKING ABOUT THIS.

THE THIRD THING IS THIS.

IF ISRAEL RESPONDS -- I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER OF IF.

IT'S A MATTER OF HOW AND WHEN.

ONE SHOULD EXPECT THAT IRAN WILL RESPOND AS WELL.

WILL MOVE UP A FEW RUNGS ON THIS ESCALATION LADDER.

YES, AT SOME POINT, THE UNITED STATES COULD GET DRAGGED INTO THIS AS WELL, SUPPORTING ISRAEL.

BY THE WAY, SO COULD SOME OF THE ARAB STATES AS WELL.

OR IF IRAN DEEMS THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING ISRAEL TO IRAN'S DISADVANTAGE.

WE HAVE SEEN SOME OF THAT TALK ALREADY BECAUSE OF SAUDI ARABIA'S AND JORDAN'S SHOOTING DOWN OF IRANIAN MISSILES.

I THINK THIS COULD GET VERY BIG VERY QUICKLY.

I ALSO THINK THAT ISRAEL HAS TO TAKE THE LONG-TERM VIEW OF WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR THEM, THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL AND THE VULNERABILITY OF THE ISRAELI PEOPLE.

>> TO BE CLEAR, JORDAN HAS SAID THAT WHAT IT DID WAS TO SAFEGUARD THE LIVES OF THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

YOU KNOW SUCCESSIVE AMERICAN ADMINISTRATIONS, SINCE THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC, HAVE REFUSED TO GET INVOLVED IN EITHER ON BEHALF OF ISRAEL OR FOR THEMSELVES IN A WAR IN IRAN.

YOU REMEMBER -- I DON'T EVEN KNOW, MAYBE YOU WERE DEFENSE SECRETARY.

UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, HE REFUSED TO COME TO THE AID OF SAUDI ARABIA WHEN IRAN HIT THE OIL INSTALLATIONS.

IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT ANYBODY TAKES LIGHTLY.

>> YEAH, LOOK, THERE'S TRUTH TO ALL THAT.

KEEP IN MIND IN THE '80s, WE HAD THE TANKER WARS WHICH WERE AGGRESSIVE.

OF COURSE, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S KILLING OF SOLEIMANI.

I WOULD SAY IT'S NOW IRAN THAT HAS BROKEN THE TABOO BY STRIKING ISRAEL DIRECTLY.

WE BELIEVE ISRAEL KILLED THE GENERALS AT THE CONSULATE IN SYRIA, LOBBING A FEW MISSILES.

THAT IS IN STARK CONTRAST TO WHAT IRAN DID.

WE WANT TO AVOID THE WIDER WAR.

CLEARLY, WHAT'S HAPPENED OVER THE LAST NOT JUST SIX DAYS BUT REALLY THE LAST SIX MONTHS, GOING BACK TO OCTOBER 7th, IS A NEW LEVEL IN TERMS OF HOSTILITY IN THE REGION AND IRAN'S ABILITY TO FIRE UP ITS PROXIES AND REALLY TRY TO UNDERMINE THE ISRAELI STATE AND PUSH THE UNITED STATES OUT OF THE REGION, WHICH ARE THEIR ULTIMATE GOALS, DESTROY ISRAEL AND GET THE UNITED STATES OUT.

WE HAVE REACHED A HISTORIC INFLECTION POINT IN THE REGION WITH REGARD TO RELATIONS BETWEEN THESE THREE COUNTRIES.

IT'S UNCLEAR WHERE IT WILL GO.

IT COULD ERUPT INTO A WIDR REGIONAL WAR.

THE ROOT CAUSE OF OCTOBER 7th ALWAYS GOES BACK TO IRAN.

YOU ARE NEVER GOING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM OF HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, THE MILITIAS IN SYRIA AND IRAQ AND NOW THE HOUTHIS, WHICH ARE A NEW PLAYER, UNTIL YOU DEAL WITH THE UNDERLYING PROBLEM, WHICH IS IRAN'S SUPPORT OF ALL THIS NEFARIOUS ACTIVITY.

>> CAN I ASK YOU ABOUT UKRAINE?

YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PROTECTION OF UKRAINE'S SOVEREIGNTY AS IT CONTINUES TO REALLY TRY TO WITHSTAND WITHERING MISSILE AND DRONE ATTACKS FROM RUSSIA.

AS YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN SAYING IN THE AFTERMATH OF WHAT HAPPENED SATURDAY NIGHT THAT IT'S A MASSIVE AND GLARING DOUBLE STANDARD.

IF THE ISRAELI ALLIES COULD SAFEGUARD ISRAEL'S SKIES, WHY DID -- WHY NOT DO IT FOR UKRAINE?

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> Translator: AFTER YESTERDAY'S ATTACK, I WANT TO ASK YOU A QUESTION.

IS ISRAEL PART OF NATO?

OR NOT?

HERE IS THE ANSWER.

ISRAEL IS NOT A NATO COUNTRY.

THE NATO ALLIES HAVE BEEN DEFENDING ISRAEL.

THEY SHOWED THE IRANIAN FORCES THAT ISRAEL WAS NOT ALONE.

THIS IS A LESSON.

THIS IS A RESPONSE TO ANYONE ON ANY CONTINENT WHO SAYS YOU NEED TO ASSIST UKRAINE VERY CAREFULLY SO YOU DON'T ENGAGE NATO COUNTRIES IN THE WAR.

>> DOESN'T HE MAKE A FAIR POINT?

WITHOUT NITPICKING, THEY WANTED A NO-FLY ZONE AT THE BEGINNING.

THEY KNEW IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THEIR SKIES PROTECTED, THIS KIND OF CATASTROPHE AND DESTRUCTION WOULD CONTINUE.

NOW, EVEN NON-AIR COMBAT POWER IS BEING HELD UP BY THE U.S. CONGRESS.

>> YEAH, LOOK, THERE ARE SIMILARITIES AND DIFFERENCES IN BOTH CASES.

THE SIMILARITIES BEING THAT BOTH COUNTRIES ARE DEMOCRACIES WHO ARE FIGHTING TO DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST AGGRESSIVE NEIGHBORS WHO ARE NOT DEMOCRACIES.

AS A REAGAN REPUBLICAN, I'M SOMEBODY THAT BELIEVES WE SHOULD HELP THOSE TYPES OF COUNTRIES.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND UKRAINE GOES BACK JUST A FEW DECADES.

WITH ISRAEL, IT GOES BACK 70 PLUS YEARS.

THERE ARE BIG DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THE SECURITY RELATIONSHIPS, THE POLITICAL RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN THE TWO.

ONE CONFOUNDING PART OF THIS IS -- GOES BACK TO THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S POLICY.

I HAVE GIVEN PRESIDENT BIDEN CREDIT IN THE PAST FOR RALLYING THE NATO ALLIES IN DEFENSE OF UKRAINE AFTER PUTIN'S INVASION.

I HAVE GIVEN HIM CREDIT FOR THE SUPPORT OF ISRAEL.

IN BOTH CASES, HE HAS BEEN TOO SELF-DETERRED IN TERMS OF TAKING ACTION IN BOTH SCENARIOS.

IN UKRAINE, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN TOO LITTLE TOO LATE TOO OFTEN.

WHEN IT COMES TO PROVIDING UKRAINE WITH THE ARMS AND AMMUNITION IT NEEDS TO DEFEND ITSELF, LET ALONE WIN.

WE THINK ABOUT PATRIOTS, F-16s, YOU NAME IT.

THEY STILL DON'T HAVE LONG-RANGE MISSILES.

IN THE MIDDLE EAST, WE SUFFERED ATTACKS TO OUR TROOPS OVER 150 TIMES BEFORE PRESIDENT BIDEN DECIDED TO RESPOND FORCEFULLY.

THAT HAPPENED IN EARLY FEBRUARY.

IT'S BEEN PRETTY SILENT SINCE THEN.

SURPRISE.

I THINK HE HAS HAD TOO COOL OF A HAND, TOO CONCERNED ABOUT ESCALATION, WHEN ACTUALLY A STIFFER, STRONGER, MORE RESOLUTE U.S.

RESPONSE MIGHT HAVE HELPED KIND OF OUR SIDE, IF YOU WILL, IN BOTH SCENARIOS.

I THINK THAT'S A SHORTCOMING OF THIS ADMINISTRATION THAT NEEDS TO BE REMEDIED QUICKLY.

IN THIS CASE, OBVIOUSLY, THE LATEST CHALLENGE HAS BEEN REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS, SPECIFICALLY THE HOUSE.

I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN NEGLECTFUL IN TERMS OF PROVIDING AID.

HOPEFULLY, IT WILL HAPPEN THIS WEEK.

I KNOW A BILL IS SUPPOSED TO BE GOING UP TO PROVIDE THAT $95 BILLION PACKAGE THAT INCLUDES $60 BILLION FOR UKRAINE.

>> ON THAT, YOU HAVE GOT A LOT OF INFIGHTING GOING ON WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

I WONDER WHAT YOU MAKE OF PEOPLE LIKE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE WHO SAYS, IT'S ANTI-SEMITIC TO MAKE ISRAEL AID CONTINGENT ON FUNDING UKRAINIAN NAZIS.

THESE SHOULD BE SEPARATE BILLS.

I'M FOCUSING ON HER LANGUAGE.

THAT'S LITERALLY AN INTRAVENOUS FEED OF RUSSIAN DISINFORMATION DIRECTED STATE AT THEM TO STOP THEM FROM SENDING THOSE REPUBLICANS.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THEY ARE BASICALLY DOING PUTIN'S BIDDING?

>> LOOK, I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THAT LANGUAGE.

IT'S SO OUTLANDISH AND IT'S SO WRONG IN MANY WAYS.

IF WE DON'T LEAD, A VACUUM WILL BE CREATED.

RUSSIA OR CHINA OR BOTH, TWO AUTHORITARIAN STATES WILL STEP IN AND OVER TIME TRY TO BREAK DOWN THE INTERNATIONAL RULES, ORDER AND NORMS AND INSTALL THEIR OWN VALUES.

THAT'S NOT THE WORLD WE WANT TO LIVE IN.

WE HAVE TO STEP UP IN BOTH CASES, IN ALL CASES, ACTUALLY.

UKRAINE, THE MIDDLE EAST, AND TAIWAN AND SUPPORT OUR FRIENDS AND ALLIES AND DO THE RIGHT THING.

STOP WITH THIS TYPE OF TALK.

IT'S INCONSISTENT NOT JUST WITH PRESIDENT REAGAN BUT WITH THE HISTORY OF THE GOP AND, FRANKLY, U.S. FOREIGN POLICY NOW GOING BACK AT LEAST SINCE THE END OF WORLD WAR II.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU'VE BEEN VOCAL -- IT'S DONALD TRUMP WHO CAUSED THIS LOGJAM.

DOING IT AT HIS DIRECTION.

YOU HAVE BEEN VOCAL ABOUT NOT VOTING FOR HIM AGAIN, ABOUT CALLING HIM A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

IN A MEMO TO CNN A FEW MONTHS AGO, JOHN KELLY, RETIRED MARINE GENERAL, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF OF TRUMP, SAID, HE IS A PERSON THAT HAS NO IDEA WHAT AMERICA STANDS FOR, NO IDEA WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT, A PERSON WHO HAS NOTHING BUT CONTEMPT FOR OR CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OF LAW.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO, YOU, KELLY, OTHERS WHO HAVE COME OUT AGAINST DONALD TRUMP, IF YOU FEEL SO STRONGLY THAT HE IS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY?

>> YOU KNOW, THERE'S ONLY BEEN A FEW OF US THAT HAVE COME OUT PUBLICALLY TO SPEAK OUT.

I HAVE BEEN VERY FRANK ABOUT MY VIEWS.

I THINK HE IS UNFIT FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

WHAT I LOOK FOR IN A CANDIDATE WHO SOMEBODY WHO PUTS COUNTRY FIRST, SOMEBODY WHO HAS CHARACTER AND INTEGRITY, SOMEBODY THAT CAN LEAD.

DONALD TRUMP DOESN'T CHECK ANY OF THOSE BOXES.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO SAY THAT WHEN ASKED.

I'M GOING TO CONTINUE TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT AS SOMEBODY THAT WORKED FOR HIM, NOT JUST SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, I WAS SECRETARY OF THE ARMY FOR NEARLY TWO YEARS, I DON'T THINK HE IS THE RIGHT PERSON FOR OUR COUNTRY.

I WILL NOT BE SUPPORTING HIM.

OTHERWISE, I THINK HIS RECORD IS OUT THERE.

AT THIS POINT IN TIME, VOTERS EITHER KNOW WHO -- IF THEY DON'T KNOW WHO HE IS, THEY HAVE BEEN ASLEEP IN A CAVE SOMEWHERE.

SIX, SEVEN MONTHS UNTIL THE ELECTION.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN.

I WILL SPEAK OUT WHEN AND HOW I CAN.

>> MARK ESPER, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS MET WITH THE IRAQI PRIME MINISTER AS EFFORTS TO DEESCALATE CONTINUE.

A RARE ALLY OF WASHINGTON AND TEHRAN, PRIME MINISTER MOHAMMED SHIA al-SUDANI HAD BEEN IN TOWN TO DISCUSS THE WITHDRAWAL OF U.S.

TROOPS FROM HIS COUNTRY.

IN HIS FIRST COMMENTS SINCE THAT MEETING, THE IRAQI LEADER TALKED ABOUT WHETHER A WIDER REGIONAL WAR COULD BE AVOIDED.

PRIME MINISTER, YOU HAVE BEEN MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN AT A MOMENT OF EXTREME TENSION.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL WILL RESPOND?

WHAT HAVE YOU HEARD IN WASHINGTON?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT WILL CAUSE IN YOUR REGION?

WHAT WILL HAPPEN?

>> Translator: IN THE NAME OF GOD, MY VISIT ABSOLUTELY COMES IN A SENSITIVE TIME, A CRITICAL TIME FOR THE BILATERAL RELATIONS BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES AND ALSO REGARDING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE REGION.

WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT ABOUT STOPPING THIS COLLISION OF TENSION AND NOT TO ALLOW THE CONFLICT TO SPILL OUT OR TO KEEP ESCALATING, TO MAINTAIN THE SAFETY AND SECURITY OF THE PEOPLES OF THE REGION.

WHICH STARTED ON OCTOBER 7.

SINCE THE EVENTS OF OCTOBER 7, WE STARTED WARNING ABOUT THE POSSIBLE DANGEROUS CONSEQUENCES.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED, ACTUALLY.

NOW WE ARE FACING A SITUATION IN THE RED SEA WHERE THERE IS HINDERING OF NAVIGATION IN THE RED SEA.

ALSO WHAT'S HAPPENING IN LEBANON AND SYRIA AND RECENTLY THAT ESCALATION BETWEEN ISRAEL AND IRAN.

THE REGION CANNOT STAND SUCH TENSION AND SUCH EVENTS.

EVERYONE HAS TO PRESSURE TO IN THE DIRECTION OF STOPPING ESCALATION.

>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, YOU NAMED A VARIETY OF LOCATIONS WHERE THERE ARE THREATS.

ALL OF THESE ARE BACKED BY IRAN, IN OTHER WORDS, ALL THE MILITIAS IN THE LOCATIONS ARE BACKED BY IRAN, WHICH HAS A VERY SIGNIFICANT POWER BASE IN IRAQ, IN YOUR COUNTRY.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO PRESSURE IRAN OR THE IRAN-BACKED MILITIAS IN IRAQ TO STOP THE ESCALATION, WHETHER IT'S AGAINST AMERICAN TARGETS OR AGAINST OTHER TARGETS?

>> Translator: WE DO NOT ALLOW ANY FACTIONS TO USE FORCE OR TO COMMIT AGGRESSIONS AGAINST MILITARY STATIONS WHERE AMERICANS ARE LOCATED.

WE HAVE TAKEN PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE NOT BEING LENIENT IN ENFORCING THE LAW AND MAINTAINING SAFETY AND SECURITY AND THE RULE OF LAW ON IRAQ.

WE ARE EXERTING POLITICAL EFFORT INTENTIONALLY AND EXTERNALLY TO KEEP IRAQ AWAY FROM THE BATTLEFIELD.

WITH KEEPING CONDEMNING AGGRESSION ON THE PALESTINIANS AND GAZA IN PARTICULAR.

THIS IS THE MAIN PROBLEM.

WE CANNOT REDUCE THE SITUATION IN THE REACTION OF THIS PARTY OR THAT PARTY.

THERE IS A GENOCIDE -- SYSTEMATIC GENOCIDE, WHICH IS INFLICTED ON THE PALESTINIANS IN PLAIN VIEW OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY, WHICH HAS FAILED WITH ALL ITS LAWS, WITH ALL ITS ORGANIZATIONS TO MAINTAIN THE LIVES OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS, MEN, WOMEN, CHILDREN.

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

THIS IS THE ORIGIN OF THE PROBLEM.

AS SOON AS SUCH AN AGGRESSION STOPS, WE WILL WITNESS A LOT OF STABILITY COMING BACK TO THE AREA.

AND THERE WILL BE NEED FOR MORE STEPS TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF THE LAST SIX MONTHS.

>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, YOU SAY THAT.

I WONDER WHETHER THE U.S. PRESIDENT AGREED WITH YOUR CHARACTERIZATION.

WHAT DID YOU SAY TO THE PRESIDENT?

DOES HE AGREE THERE'S A GENOCIDE?

DID YOU ASK HIM HOW HE IS GOING TO HELP STOP IT?

>> Translator: IN MY PRESS RELEASE, I MENTIONED THAT THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OUR TWO POSITIONS, US AND THE AMERICANS, ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE AREA.

THE DIFFERENCE IS NOT REALLY MINOR.

WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE.

WE BOTH AGREE THERE'S AN INTERNATIONAL LAW, THERE'S INTERNATIONAL HUMANITARIAN LAW AND LAW OF WAR WHICH PROVIDES FOR THE PROTECTION OF DIPLOMATIC INSTITUTIONS.

THE U.S. PRESIDENT DOES NOT DISAGREE WITH ME.

NEITHER DOES ANY PRESIDENT.

EVERY COUNTRY CALLS FOR THE RESPECT OF HUMAN LIFE AND LAW.

>> YOU SAY THAT IF THIS WAS STOPPED, A LOT OF THE TENSION WOULD BE REDUCED IN YOUR REGION.

IRAN SAYS IT'S STICKING UP FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

DO YOU, THEREFORE, THINK IT MISCALCULATED WITH ITS ATTACK OVER THE WEEKEND?

IT SHIFTED THE ATTENTION OFF THE PALESTINIANS AND OFF GAZA.

>> Translator: WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 7th AND THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT WAS WHAT LED THE WAY TO THE RECENT EVENTS THAT WE WITNESSED.

WHICH WE HAD WARNED ABOUT, AS I SAID.

WE ARE AFRAID OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF SUCH ESCALATION.

THE AGGRESSION THAT TOOK PLACE AGAINST THE DIPLOMATIC -- THE CONSULATE IN DAMASCUS WAS A BLATANT VIOLATION TO THE INTERNATIONAL LAW, WHICH PUSHED IRAN TO RETALIATE.

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE WORKING ON CONTROLLING NOW.

NOW WE ARE FACING A REAL PROBLEM REGARDING WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA.

THIS IS AFFECTING STABILITY IN THE REGION AND THE WHOLE WORLD.

IGNORING SUCH A PROBLEM WILL MEAN ADDITIONAL ESCALATION IN THE REGION IN SUCH A SENSITIVE AREA THAT CAN'T STAND SUCH ESCALATION.

>> ESPECIALLY YOUR COUNTRY.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US HOW IT'S POSSIBLE THAT APPARENTLY SOME OR ONE OF THE MISSILES AGAINST ISRAEL WAS LAUNCHED FROM INSIDE IRAQ.

THAT'S ACCORDING TO THE ISRAELI MILITARY.

FOR SURE, ONE OF THE MISSILES AT LEAST WAS DOWNED BY A U.S. PATRIOT SYSTEM BASED INSIDE IRAQ.

HOW CAN YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN AIRSPACE IF THIS IS GOING ON?

>> Translator: IT WAS NOT PROVEN TO US THROUGH THE MILITARY INFORMATION WE RECEIVED THAT ANY MISSILES WERE LAUNCHED OR ANY DRONES WERE LAUNCHED WITHIN IRAQ.

CERTAINLY, OUR POSITION IS CLEAR.

WE DO NOT ALLOW ANY NON-GOVERNMENTAL BODY TO USE IRAQ TO BRING IRAQ INTO THE BATTLE.

WE HAVE BEEN TAKING THE LEGAL PROCEDURES TO KEEP IRAQ SAFE AND KEEP IRAQ -- TO DISTANCE IRAQ AWAY FROM THE WAR.

>> MR. PRIME MINISTER, AS YOU KNOW, IRAN'S MAIN CALL HAS BEEN THE WITHDRAWAL OF AMERICAN FORCES FROM IRAQ.

THERE APPEARS TO BE 2,000 OR 2,500 RIGHT NOW THERE.

WHAT DID YOU AND PRESIDENT BIDEN TALK ABOUT?

BECAUSE THIS IS A DISCUSSION THAT'S BEEN UNDERWAY.

WILL THE UNITED STATES PULL THOSE FORCES OUT?

DO YOU WANT THOSE PROTECTIVE FORCES PULLED OUT OF IRAQ?

>> Translator: FIRST OF ALL, WE CANNOT BRING IRAN INTO EVERY ISSUE IN RELATION WITH IRAQ.

THE WINDING DOWN OF THE INTERNATIONAL COALITION FORCES IS AN IRAQI DEMAND, NOT AN IRANIAN DEMAND.

THEREFORE, THERE WAS A DISCUSSION THAT TOOK PLACE BETWEEN IRAQ AND THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

THERE HAVE BEEN DISCUSSIONS SINCE LAST YEAR.

IRAQ NOW IN 2024 IS DIFFERENT THAN IN 2014, TEN YEARS AGO.

IN SEPTEMBER, TEN YEARS WILL HAVE PASSED SINCE THE INTERNATIONAL COALITION WAS FORMED.

IT WAS FORMED AT THE INVITATION OF THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT.

NOW THERE IS NO LONGER A THREAT TO THE SECURITY OF IRAQ.

NATURALLY, IRAQ WILL ASK TO TAKE OVER.

THERE IS NO REASON FOR 86 COUNTRIES, TROOPS, TO REMAIN IN IRAQ TO FIGHT WHEN OUR SECURITY AGENCIES ARE SO EFFICIENT AND SO READY TO MAINTAIN SECURITY AND RULE OF LAW IN IRAQ.

THANK GOD, WE HAVE UNDERSTANDING.

WE HAVE COMMITTEES BETWEEN AMERICA -- THE UNITED STATES WHICH HOLD MEETINGS REGULARLY.

ESTABLISHING A SUSTAINABLE PARTNERSHIP IN TERMS OF SECURITY AND OTHER FIELDS OF OPERATION BASED ON THESE STRATEGIC FRAMEWORK AGREEMENT.

>> FINALLY, MR. PRIME MINISTER, ON A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT ISSUE, AS YOU KNOW, AND I'M SURE THE PRESIDENT BROUGHT IT UP WITH YOU, THERE'S A STUDENT, AN ISRAELI RUSSIAN STUDENT FROM PRINCETON UNIVERSITY WHO HAS BEEN KIDNAPPED WHILE DOING RESEARCH IN YOUR COUNTRY.

THIS WAS ABOUT A YEAR AGO.

SHE'S BELIEVED TO BE HELD BY ONE OF THE FORCES THAT APPARENTLY BELONG TO THE IRAQI ARMED FORCES AND THE ESTABLISHMENT.

HER SISTER BELIEVES THAT YOU PERSONALLY, YOUR GOVERNMENT, HOLDS THE KEY TO HER RELEASE.

WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO GET HER RELEASED?

>> Translator: SINCE THE INCIDENT OF THAT KIDNAPPING, THE IRAQI GOVERNMENT FORMED A TEAM TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT INCIDENT AND THE DETAILS THEREOF.

AND WE HAVE BEEN INVESTIGATING ALL INFORMATION THAT COMES THROUGH THE FRIENDLY GOVERNMENTS AND THEIR SECURITY AGENCIES TO END THIS KIDNAPPING.

THE GOVERNMENT IS CERTAINLY COMMITTED TO DISCLOSE THE FATE OF THAT HOSTAGE AND WE REJECT ANY KIDNAPPING OF ANY FOREIGN NATIONAL IN OUR COUNTRY.

WE WILL HOLD ACCOUNTABLE ANYONE WHO ENGAGES IN SUCH ABDUCTION.

>> PRIME MINISTER MOHAMMED SHIA al-SUDANI, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> Translator: THANK YOU.

>> THE CONFLICT HAS SUCKED UP THE WORLD'S ATTENTION.

THE WAR AND SUFFERING IN GAZA DRAGS ON.

>>> IRELAND HAS BEEN OUTSPOKE BEEN THE CRISIS, STARTING WITH ITS LAST PRIME MINISTER, NOW ITS NEW ONE, 37-YEAR-OLD SIMON HARRIS, THE YOUNGEST EVER TAOISEACH, ON THE JOB A WEEK.

HE IS INTENT ON KEEPING THE FOCUS ON THE HORRORS IN GAZA.

HE ANNOUNCED SIGNS TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINE AS A NATION-STATE.

HE JOINS ME FOR HIS FIRST TELEVISION INTERVIEW AS TAOISEACH.

THANK YOU.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> GOOD EVENING.

IT'S AN HONOR TO BE WITH YOU.

>> LET ME ASK YOU FIRST ABOUT THE HUGE ISSUE OPEN ALL OF YOUR PLATE.

WE HEARD FROM THE U.S., ARAB STATES, AND THE EU, MEETING TO TRY TO MAKE SOME KIND OF RESTRAINT TAKE HOLD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO BE THE LIKELY NEXT MOVE IN THIS REGION?

>> TOMORROW, I WILL TRAVEL TO BRUSSELS FOR MY FIRST EUROPEAN COUNCIL MEETING.

I WILL JOIN WITH COLLEAGUES THERE IN CALLING FOR RESTRAINT TO BE SHOWN BY ALL PARTIES.

ANYTHING OTHER THAN THAT AT THIS STAGE WOULD RESULT IN VERY SIGNIFICANT BLOODSHED AND VERY SIGNIFICANT CATASTROPHE FOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE REGION.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT WE SEE STABILITY IN THE REGION.

WHILE IRELAND HAS RIGHTLY CONDEMNED THE ACTIONS OF IRAN OVER THE WEEKEND, IT IS NOW REALLY IMPORTANT THAT ALL PARTIES SHOW RESTRAINT.

WE NEED TO SEE STABILITY RESTORED TO THE REGION.

ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE EXERCISE OF RESTRAINT AT THIS TIME WOULD BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

WE HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TOMORROW EVENING TO DISCUSS THIS.

I LOOK FORWARD TO ENGAGING WITH OTHER HEADS OF GOVERNMENT ON THIS MATTER.

>> DO YOU THINK, TAOISEACH, THAT THE EU WOULD HAVE A STRONG VOICE, A VOICE THAT THE ISRAELIS WOULD LISTEN TO?

DON'T SEEM TO BE LISTENING TO THE UNITED STATES.

ALTHOUGH, THEY HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING YET.

THE GENERAL CONSENSUS IS THAT THEY ARE.

DO YOU THINK YOU HAVE ANY INFLUENCE?

>> I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT COUNTRIES SPEAK UP AND SPEAK OUT.

IT'S A MATTER FOR THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, THE NETANYAHU ADMINISTRATION AS TO WHO THEY WISH TO LISTEN TO.

THEY HAVEN'T BEEN LISTENING TO COUNTRIES LIKE IRELAND AND OTHER EUROPEAN STATES CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA FOR MANY MONTHS NOW.

I HOPE AT THIS STAGE THAT COMMON SENSE PREVAILS.

THE IRANIAN ATTACK ON ISRAEL DESERVES CONDEMNATION.

IT RECEIVED CONDEMNATION IN IRELAND AND ACROSS THE EUROPEAN UNION.

THAT'S RIGHT AND PROPER.

ALONGSIDE THAT IS A CALL FOR RESTRAINT.

BECAUSE THE REGION NEEDS STABILITY.

IRELAND WILL CONTINUE AS A COUNTRY TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER, JUST LIKE MY PREDECESSOR DID IN THE OVAL OFFICE WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN A FEW WEEKS AGO IN TERMS CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE IN GAZA.

WE HAVE A RESPECTED VOICE IN THE WORLD COMMUNITY, A COUNTRY KNOWN FOR BEING AN HONEST BROKER.

A COUNTRY THAT KNOWS ABOUT PEACE AND PEACE PROCESSES AND INTENDS TO SPEAK OUT IN FAVOR OF INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS LAW AND CESSATION OF VIOLENCE AND A POLITICAL PROCESS TO BRING ABOUT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION IN THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> I WANT TO POINT OUT THE U.N. SAID IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS IN THE WAR IN GAZA, 10,000 WOMEN HAVE BEEN KILLED, 19,000 CHILDREN ORPHANED.

YOU MENTIONED YOUR PREDECESSOR.

WHILE HE WAS IN OFFICE, HE LAID OUT -- IN CASE THE REST OF THE WORLD DIDN'T UNDERSTAND IRELAND'S STRONG AFFILIATION WITH PALESTINIANS AND WITH THAT MOVEMENT.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> WHEN I TRAVEL THE WORLD, LEADERS OFTEN ASK ME WHY THE IRISH HAVE SUCH EMPATHY FOR THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE.

WE SEE OUR HISTORY IN THEIR EYES.

A STORY OF DISPLACEMENT, OF DISPOSSESSION AND NATIONAL IDENTITY QUESTIONED OR DENIED, FORCED IMMIGRATION, DISCRIMINATION, AND NOW HUNGER.

>> THAT WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE DURING THE ANNUAL TRADITIONAL ST. PATRICK'S.

HE WAS STANDING ALONGSIDE PRESIDENT BIDEN.

YOU HAVE ONLY BEEN IN OFFICE, AS I SAY, ABOUT A WEEK.

YOU ALSO ARE CHOOSING TO MAKE THIS SITUATION PART -- A STRONG PART OF YOUR MAIDEN SPEECHES AND REALLY YOUR RESOLVE ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

WHY?

>> BECAUSE, QUITE FRANKLY, WE HAVE TO SPEAK OUT AGAINST WHAT IS AN INCREDIBLE HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE UNFOLDING IN GAZA.

THE ACTIONS OF HAMAS WERE DESPICABLE ACTS OF TERRORIST.

HAMAS IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

ALL HOSTAGES SHOULD BE RELEASED IMMEDIATELY AND WITHOUT ANY PRECONDITION.

IT'S COMPATIBLE WITH SAYING THAT TO ALSO SAY THE NEXT -- WHICH I DON'T THINK ENOUGH PEOPLE ARE SAYING.

WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN GAZA HAS MOVED WELL BEYOND A RIGHT TO DEFEND -- FOR A COUNTRY TO DEFEND ITSELF, TO A SITUATION WHERE THERE'S A DISPROPORTIONATE IMPACT ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND CIVILIAN INFRASTRUCTURE.

THIS COUNTRY KNOWS A LOT ABOUT FAMINE.

DON'T TAKE THE WORD OF THE IRISH GOVERNMENT OR ANY GOVERNMENT.

THERE ARE MANY REPUTABLE ORGANIZATIONS CALLING THIS.

I CAN TELL YOU THIS WITH CERTAINTY.

THE ONLY WAY YOU RESOLVE THE ISSUE IS TO BRING ABOUT A POLITICAL PROCESS THAT RESULTS IN A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

WHAT I INTEND TO DO AS THE LEADER OF A SMALL EUROPEAN NATION, BUT A NATION THAT HAS BEEN SEEN AS AN HONEST VOICE ON THE WORLD STAGE, A MEMBER OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, I INTEND TO CONTINUE TO SPEAK OUT IN FAVOR OF PEACE, CALLING FOR THE IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF VIOLENCE, THE RELEASE OF ALL HOSTAGES AND GET TO A POINT WHERE WE CAN HAVE THE POLITICAL PROCESS TO BRING ABOUT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.

I KNOW THAT SOUNDS LIKE A REMOTE POSSIBILITY.

I KNOW THE NETANYAHU MAKES THAT SEEM ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

IT'S NOT A REASON FOR COUNTRIES NOT TO SPEAK OUT.

WHAT I WANT TO DO AND WHAT I WANT THE EUROPEAN UNION TO DO, I WANT TO SEE THE EUROPEAN UNION USE EVERY LEVER TO EXPERT THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF PRESSURE TO BRING ABOUT A CEASE-FIRE.

THAT INVOLVES REVIEWING ASSOCIATION AGREEMENTS WITH ISRAEL, ENSURING THEY ARE COMPATIBLE TO HUMAN RIGHTS.

I THINK IT INVOLVES A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES THAT ARE LIKE MINDED COMING TOGETHER TO RECOGNIZE THE STATE OF PALESTINIAN.

I HAVE HAD SIGNIFICANT ENGAGEMENT WITH THE SPANISH PRIME MINISTER ON THIS, INCLUDING WELCOMING HIM TO MY OFFICE IN DUBLIN ON FRIDAY.

>> TAOISEACH, I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THAT.

IT CAUSED A LOT OF WAVE WHEN YOU AND HE SAID THAT YOU ARE GOING TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD.

WHAT DOES THAT LOOK LIKE?

WHAT ACTUALLY WILL IT DO?

WHO ELSE WILL FOLLOW YOU?

WHAT WILL IT MEAN IN THE PURSUIT OF A POLITICAL SOLUTION?

>> IF YOU BELIEVE THAT A POLITICAL SOLUTION MUST BRING ABOUT A TWO-STATE SOLUTION, A GOOD STARTING POINT IS RECOGNIZING THERE ARE TWO STATES.

THE STATE OF ISRAEL, THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO LIVE IN PEACE AND SAFETY AND SECURITY IN THEIR REGION.

WE ALSO BELIEVE ALONGSIDE A SECURE AND SAFE ISRAEL SHOULD BE A SECURE, PEACEFUL AND SAFE PALESTINE.

I THINK IF YOU FUNDAMENTALLY BELIEVE IN A TWO-STATE LOGIC IS RECOGNIZING PALESTINIAN AS A STATE.

WE ARE ENGAGING WITH OTHER LIKE-MINDED COUNTRIES AND THE EUROPEAN COUNTRY AND SOME OUTSIDE THE EUROPEAN UNION.

AS I SAID IN RECENT DAYS, IRELAND STANDS READY TO RECOGNIZE PALESTINE.

WE WOULD LIKE TO DO THIS WITH OTHER LIKE-MINDED COUNTRIES.

I THINK A NUMBER OF COUNTRIES MOVING TOGETHER INCREASES THE IMPACT OF THE POTENTIAL POSITIVE MOMENTUM THAT CAN FLOW FROM THAT.

TOMORROW WHEN I GO TO BRUSSELS, I WILL CONTINUE TO ENGAGE WITH COLLEAGUES ON THAT.

>> I DON'T MEAN TO INTERRUPT.

I NEED TO ASK, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS ACTUALLY PUSHED BACK ON THIS NOTION AND SAYS, YOU ARE ON WRONG SIDE OF HISTORY.

THAT'S THE AMBASSADOR TO IRELAND.

I'M SURE YOU HAVE HEARD THAT.

A UNILATERAL RECOGNITION OF A PALESTINIAN STATE AT THIS POINT SENDS A DANGEROUS SIGNAL TO HAMAS AND ITS SUPPORTERS SINCE IT WILL BE VIEWED AT REWARDING TERRORISM.

WHAT DO YOU SAY?

>> EXCUSE ME FOR FINDING IT HARD TO HEAR THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT TALKING ABOUT BEING ON WRONG SIDE, BECAUSE I THINK THE ACTIONS OF THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF ALLOWING THIS HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHE TO UNFOLD AND THE IMPACT ON WOMEN AND CHILDREN AND INFRASTRUCTURE, IRELAND IS CLEAR IN THE NEED FOR RELEASE OF ALL HOSTAGES, WE ARE CLEAR OF THE RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO BE ABLE TO LIVE IN SAFETY AND SECURITY, BUT WE ALSO BELIEVE THAT REASON HAS BEEN REPLACED BY REVENGE.

WE BELIEVE THERE NEEDS TO BE AN IMMEDIATE CESSATION OF VIOLENCE.

I DON'T HAVE TIME FOR ANY DISTRACTIONS OR DIVERSIONS PUT FORWARD BY THE NETANYAHU GOVERNMENT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THAT.

>> IT'S A ROUGH ROAD AHEAD FOR EVERYONE.

TAOISEACH SIMON HARRIS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> NOW WE TURN TO A STORY CLOSER TO HOME.

HURRICANES, STORMS AND WILDFIRES ARE FORCING AMERICANS TO ABANDON THEIR HOMES AS NATURE LASHES OUT AGAINST HUMAN-MADE CLIMATE CHANGE.

OVER 3 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE MOVED DUE TO A RISK OF FLOODING AND CLIMATE EXPERTS EXPECT SOMETHING 13 MILLION COASTAL RESIDENTS TO BE DISPLACED BY THE END OF THE CENTURY.

OUR NEXT GUEST, JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, HAS REPORTED FROM THE FRONT LINES OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

HE IS SPEAKING WITH HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT HOW AMERICAN TOWNS CAN BECOME MORE RESILIENT AND WHY IT'S CRUCIAL TO LISTEN TO THE SCIENCE.

>> JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

YOUR NEW BOOK IS BASED ON ALL THE TIME THAT YOU HAVE SPENT AS A NETWORK CORRESPONDENT COVERING CLIMATE DISASTERS.

IT'S CALLED "BEFORE IT'S GONE, STORIES FROM THE FRONT LINES OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN SMALL TOWN AMERICA."

WHY SMALL TOWNS?

>> SMALL TOWNS LACK THE ENGINEERING, THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE BUDGETS TO SURVIVE THE KINDS OF STORMS THAT INCREASINGLY MORE AND MORE OF THESE SMALL TOWNS ARE BEING IMPACTED BY.

I CALL THEM CANARIES IN THE COAL MINE.

WHAT LARGER CITIES WILL EXPERIENCE MORE OF AS MOTHER NATURE OUTPACES OUR ABILITY TO HOLD HER BACK.

AS OUR MODERN TOOLS ARE NO LONGER GOOD ENOUGH.

WE ARE SEEING THIS UNFOLD IN BIG CITIES.

I COVER BIG CITIES IN THIS BOOK AS WELL.

FOLLOWING SUPER STORM SANDY.

I WAS WORKING FOR WNBC AT THE TIME.

I SAW FIRSTHAND THE IMPACT THAT STORM HAD IN KNOCKING OFFLINE NEW YORK CITY, ONE OF THE GREATEST CITIES IN THE WORLD, FOR NOT JUST DAYS AND WEEKS BUT MONTHS.

IT'S A STORY WE CONTINUE TO TELL ALL THESE YEARS LATER.

IN SMALLER COMMUNITIES, WHICH ARE ON THE FRONT LINES IN REAL TIME BEING IMPACTED, THESE STORIES ARE BEING FORGOTTEN.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THESE SMALL TOWNS, TO LEARN FROM THEIR LESSONS AND TO TAKE ACTION TO BUILD MORE RESILIENCY.

>> LET'S TAKE OUR AUDIENCE THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE TOWNS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TO AND WITNESSED FIRSTHAND.

PARADISE IN CALIFORNIA, THE FIRE THAT RAN THROUGH THERE.

WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND AS YOU STARTED COVERING THE STORY AND SEEING THE ABSOLUTE DEVASTATION?

>> THE CAMPFIRE IN 2018 DESTROYED 95% OF THE COMMUNITY.

85 PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

I WAS IN LONDON AT THE TIME.

I WAS BASED AS A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT THERE WHEN THE FIRE HIT.

THEN MOVED TO THE WEST COAST A FEW MONTHS LATER.

SIX MONTHS LATER, I VISITED PARADISE.

I HAD SEEN THE DESTRUCTION THROUGH THE LENS OF THE CAMERA REMOTELY AND WAS STRUCK BY THE DISASTER ZONE THAT I ARRIVED TO.

MOST STRUCK BY THE PEOPLE, THE SURVIVORS I MET WHO MADE THE DECISION VERY EARLY ON INSTEAD OF LEAVING TOWN, MOVING ELSEWHERE, MADE AN EFFORT TO MOVE BACK IN AND TO REBUILD.

THE LESSONS FROM THESE SURVIVORS OFFER SURVIVOR GUIDES IF WE LISTEN TO THEIR STORIES.

HOW TO PREVENT A DISASTER.

IF ONE HAPPENS, HOW TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THE RED TAPE TO REBUILD.

I WAS MOST STRUCK BY A MOTHER AND DAUGHTER WHO MOVED BACK IMMEDIATELY.

WHILE THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS THOUGHT THEY WERE CRAZY, THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO REBUILD THEIR TOWN IN A RESILIENT WAY.

POWER LINES TODAY IN PARADISE ARE UNDERGROUND.

EVERY HOME HAS TO CREATE DEFENSIBLE SPACE BY REMOVING SHRUBS, TREES FROM AROUND HOMES, BUILDING WITH MORE FIRE-RESISTANT MATERIALS.

THEY SAW A WAY TO CREATE A MORE RESILIENT COMMUNITY.

I THINK THAT THEIR STORY IS POWERFUL TO OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE TIME TO TAKE ACTION AND THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED, HOW TO NAVIGATE THROUGH ALL OF THE BUREAUCRATIC RED TAPE TO REBUILD AND TO CREATE A NEW START OVER.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE CAME BACK TO PARADISE?

>> ONLY A QUARTER SO FAR HAVE RETURNED.

THIS IS FIVE YEARS IN.

I SPOKE WITH THE MAYOR A FEW YEARS AGO.

HE SAID IT WOULD TAKE ABOUT 15 YEARS TO GET HALF OF THE POPULATION TO RETURN.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT IS STRUGGLING.

HAD THEY TAKEN EARLY ACTION BEFORE THE STORM HIT, THEY WOULDN'T BE IN THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

OF COURSE, SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I SPEAK WITH IMAGINE NOTHING LIKE THIS HAPPENING TO THEM UNTIL IT DOES.

NOW WITH NEW EYES, THEY SEE THE THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE DIFFERENTLY TO CREATE A SAFER PLACE TO LIVE.

>> YOU POINT OUT IN YOUR BOOK THAT THERE'S A LONGER TERM RIPPLE AFFECT OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ESSENTIALLY THERE ARE CLIMATE MIGRANT, EVEN INSIDE THIS COUNTRY.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU DISCOVERED?

>> IF WE GO BACK TO JUST HURRICANE KATRINA, YOU HAD A MILLION OF THESE CLIMATE MIGRANTS WHO DISPERSED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY EARLY ON IN THEIR RESEARCH FOUND THAT SOME HOST COMMUNITIES BECAME LESS RECEPTIVE AND SUPPORTING OF FUNDING TO HELP THE POOR AND AFRICAN AMERICANS.

GOING BACK TO PARADISE, WE SEE THE SAME THING IN CHICO.

YOU HAVE FRICTION WHEN THEY ARE STARTING TO MIX.

VOTERS ARE OPPOSING AFFORDABLE HOUSING MEASURES.

THIS IS A SIMILAR CONFLICT WE SEE.

2.5 MILLION AMERICANS WERE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES LAST YEAR, ACCORDING TO THE U.S. CENSUS BUREAU.

2.5 MILLION FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES BECAUSE OF EXTREME WEATHER.

NEW RESEARCH OUT LAST MONTH SHOWED THAT HALF OF ALL AMERICAN HOMES ARE THREATENED BY CLIMATE CHANGE.

AS THE CLIMATE CONTINUES TO FUEL THE KINDS OF WEATHER EVENTS WE ARE SEEING, WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE MORE OF THESE MIGRANTS.

FAULT LINES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AS THEY DEAL WITH ABSORBING NEW PEOPLE MOVING IN WHO HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES.

>> WHERE IS THE FREE MARKET IN ALL OF THIS?

IDEALLY, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE, OKAY, YOU CAN LIVE IN A MORE DANGEROUS AREA.

IT'S GOING TO COST YOU MORE.

AS YOU POINT OUT, THERE ARE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO ARE JUST WALKING AWAY FROM ENTIRE REGIONS.

>> THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAVE ALL PLAYED A ROLE HISTORICALLY IN WHERE WE BUILD.

I BELIEVE IT'S THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO SUPPORT CURRENT HOMES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DISCOURAGING RISKY BUILDING IN UNSAFE PLACES.

WE ARE SEEING THAT HAPPEN IN PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA AND ALONG THE COASTS, ON THE EAST COAST, WHERE YOU ARE HAVING CERTAIN PARTS OF THE INDUSTRY PULL OUT FROM CERTAIN MARKETS.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS BUSINESS AS USUAL IS NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE.

WHERE I LIVE HERE IN HOLLYWOOD -- I BOUGHT MY HOME FOUR YEAR AGO.

I HAD AN ISSUE FINDING INSURANCE.

AT FIRST, EVERYTHING WAS ABOUT $1,000 A MONTH.

UNTIL I FOUND AN INSURANCE AGENCY THAT HAD AN AFFORDABLE MONTHLY BILL.

BUT WHAT I HAD TO DO AS A RESULT WAS MEET THEIR REGULATIONS, INCLUDING THE DEFENSIBLE SPACE AROUND MY HOME.

WE HAD TO REMOVE BUSHES AND TREES SO OUR HOME IN THE EVENT THERE WAS A WILDFIRE WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED.

WE SEE THIS HAPPEN ALONG THE COAST.

WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKING ACTION.

THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, THEY HAVE A PROGRAM THAT IDENTIFIES PROPERTIES THAT ARE AT RISK OF FLOODING AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S SAFE TO HAVE THOSE PEOPLE STAY WHERE THEY ARE, BUILD THEIR HOMES ON STILTS, WHICH IS FEDERALLY FUNDED, OR THROUGH FEDERAL FUNDING MOVE THOSE LOCATIONS, MOVE THOSE HOMES TO SAFER PLACES.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE ARE SEEING NEW PROGRAMS PUT INTO PLACE BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ALSO DICTATED BY THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, ON WHERE IT IS SAFE TO LIVE.

>> SPEAKING OF DEFENSIBLE HOMES AND THINKING ABOUT THAT AND PLANNING ABOUT THAT, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HOUSE WITH THE RED ROOF.

>> BEFORE I WROTE THIS BOOK, IN MY JOURNAL I WROTE A SENTENCE, BEFORE EVERY DISASTER, THERE'S USUALLY A SCIENTIST THAT'S BEING IGNORED.

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT.

MY TEAM AND I WERE ONE OF THE FIRST NETWORK CREWS TO ARRIVE IN WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE DOWNTOWN.

MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

I EQUATE IT TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL HOLOCAUST.

WE CHARTERED A BOAT TO GET THERE WHERE HOME AFTER HOME WAS DESTROYED, BUSINESS AFTER BUSINESS.

IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH, WE LISTENED TO LOCAL LEADERS AND THEY DESCRIBED THIS FIRE AS AN EXPLOSION.

IT WAS LIKE A BOMB GOING OFF.

THE IMPLICATION BEING THERE WAS NO TIME TO TAKE ACTION.

THERE WAS, AS WE LEARNED, A NEARLY DECADE-LONG FUSE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PUT OUT.

SCIENTISTS ON THE ISLAND TEN YEARS EARLIER IN 2014 CAME OUT WITH A REPORT THAT SAID THE WARMING CLIMATE HAD INCREASED THE VULNERABILITY OF WILDFIRES THERE ON MAUI.

THEY RECOMMENDED EFFORTS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT REPORT WAS FILED AWAY.

ACTION WAS NOT TAKEN IN TIME.

IN THE DESTRUCTION WE WITNESSED FIRSTHAND, THERE WAS THIS HOME WITH THE RED ROOF.

THE HOMEOWNERS, PRIOR TO THIS FIRE, HAD UPDATED THAT HOME, IMPLEMENTING THE SCIENTIFIC REMEDIES, REMOVING BUSHES AND TREES AND PUTTING A METAL RED ROOF ON TOP OF THE HOUSE.

WHICH QUALIFIED FOR TAX CREDITS AND REDUCED THE INSURANCE COST.

UNFORTUNATELY, EVERY OTHER HOME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS DESTROYED.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE SEE EXAMPLES OF OTHER HOMES WITH THE RED ROOF THAT HAVE SURVIVED OTHER STORMS BY OTHER NAMES.

THE MESSAGE HERE, PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUALS HAVE THE POWER TO PROTECT THEIR PROPERTIES.

AS INDIVIDUAL POWER TO PROTECT COMMUNITIES, BUILD MORE RESILIENT COMMUNITIES.

>> I'M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO APPROACH YOU, AND THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY PREDISPOSED TO THINK THAT, YOU HAVE A BIAS, YOU ARE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, YOU WILL TALK ABOUT CLIMATE STUFF.

THERE'S CLIMATE DENIAL AND CLIMATE SCIENCE DENIAL OUT THERE.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?

>> I THINK DENIAL STEMS FROM A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING THE CLIMATE SCIENCE.

CLIMATE CHANGE CAN BE OVERWHELMING.

PEOPLE THAT ARE IMPACTED BY EXTREME WEATHER, THEIR EYES ARE IMMEDIATELY OPENED.

THEY SEE THINGS AND THEY SEE TRENDS THAT BEFOREHAND THEY MAY NOT HAVE BEEN OPEN TO RECEIVING.

THEIR IMAGINATIONS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND AND IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE THEY COULD LOSE THEIR HOMES.

I THINK MORE AND MORE AS I TALK TO PEOPLE ON THE FRONT LINES, ESPECIALLY THOSE IMPACTED BY EXTREME WEATHER, THEY RECOGNIZE THE WEATHER IS CHANGING, ALL OF THEM.

MANY PEOPLE I HAVE SPOKEN WITH NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED CLIMATE CHANGE AS A THREAT UNTIL THEY SAW IT VISUALIZED AND IN ACTION IN EXTREME WEATHER.

I TRY TO POINT OUT WHENEVER I'M IN THE FIELD, I TRY NOT TO HIT HOME CLIMATE CHANGE TO THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE OFTEN GOING THROUGH THE WORST MOMENTS OF THEIR LIVES, BUT THEY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, THE WEATHER IS NO LONGER WHAT IT USED TO BE.

THEY CAN'T JUST REBUILD BUSINESS AS USUAL.

THINGS NEED TO CHANGE.

>> YOU ALSO MAKE IT A POINT TO DRAW THIS CONNECTION THAT IT'S NOT JUST HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT THERE ARE CLIMATE MIGRANTS WHO TURN INTO CLIMATE REFUGEES AS THEY CROSS BORDERS BECAUSE CONDITIONS BECAME UNLIVABLE WHERE THEY WERE.

THAT HAS A DOMINO AFFECT OF ITS OWN.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WE SAW THIS -- IT'S AN EXTREME EXAMPLE.

IN SYRIA, I WAS THERE COVERING THE CIVIL WAR AT THAT POINT TEN YEARS IN.

THAT WAR HAD ITS ROOTS IN A DROUGHT.

BACK IN 2006, YOU HAD FARMERS IN THE COUNTRY WARNING THAT WITHOUT WATER THERE WAS CROP FAILURE AND THERE WOULD BE A MASS MIGRATION.

ACTION WASN'T TAKEN.

THAT UNFOLDED AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE FROM RURAL AREAS MOVED INTO URBAN AREAS.

THERE WAS A CONFLICT, WHICH LED TO PROTESTS, WHICH LED TO THE GOVERNMENT RESPONDING IN VIOLENCE WHICH INITIALLY SPARKED THIS NOT JUST PROTEST BUT THE UPRISING THAT LET TO THE CIVIL WAR AND GAVE WAY TO GROUPS LIKE I.S.I.S.

CLOSER TO HOME, WE SEE SITUATIONS LIKE THAT UNFOLDING AS WELL.

ON THE BORDER WITH MEXICO, A NUMBER OF THE MIGRANTS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH -- WE ARE TALKING MILLIONS EVERY YEAR -- ARE COMING FROM AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY HISTORIC STORMS, HISTORIC DROUGHTS, AND CROP FAILURE.

WE WILL START TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THIS WHILE SYRIA IS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE.

IT'S SOMETHING WE ARE STARTING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF IN THE U.S. 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF EXTREME WEATHER IS A DAUNTING NUMBER.

UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THE WAY THAT OUR WEATHER IS TRENDING, WE WILL SEE MORE PEOPLE UPROOTED AND MOVING FROM THEIR HOMES, VOLUNTARILY, BUT MOSTLY BY FORCE.

>> WHAT WERE THE HOPEFUL LINES YOU FOUND IN THIS REPORTING?

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO RATTLE OFF A LIST OF DISASTERS AND SAY LOOK AT THIS AND THAT.

YOU DO HAVE A THROUGH LINE HERE OF SOLUTIONS THAT ARE WORKING.

WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HOUSE WITH THE RED ROOF.

WHAT ELSE DID YOU FIND THAT GAVE YOU SOME BIT OF OPTIMISM?

>> THE CALL TO RETURN OUR LAND BACK TO A MORE NATURAL STATE TO ME HAS BEEN VERY POWERFUL TO SEE.

A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT IS THE BEAVER.

HERE IN CALIFORNIA, A RESEARCHER BY THE NAME OF EMILY FAIRFAX FOUND AFTER A MASSIVE WILDFIRE THERE WAS A STRETCH OF LAND, LUSH LAND THAT WAS NOT IMPACTED.

SHE FOUND AT THE CENTER OF THIS WAS A BEAVER DAM THAT HAD BEEN BUILT THAT WAS ABLE TO CONTAIN THE WATER AND BUILD A RESILIENT ECOSYSTEM THERE, A WETLAND THAT WAS ABLE TO RESIST FIRE.

AS A RESULT OF THIS DISCOVERY, MORE AND MORE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE WEST ARE NOW WELCOMING THE BEAVER, WHICH HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN SEEN AS A NUISANCE CRITTER, BECAUSE THEY CREATED FLOODING THROUGH THEIR DAMS.

I WAS IN UTAH WHERE A RANCHER THAT HAD ERADICATED BEAVERS FROM HIS PROPERTY ASKED FOR THEM TO BE BROUGHT BACK IN.

THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE NOW WHO ARE BUILDING WHAT ARE KNOWN AS ANALOG BEAVER DAMS TO HELP REINTRODUCE BEAVERS TO CREATE MORE RESILIENT ECOSYSTEMS.

TODAY, THAT RANCH HAS A THRIVING, LUSH ECOSYSTEM BECAUSE OF TWO BEAVERS THAT THEY BROUGHT IN.

THESE ARE ANIMALS THAT ARE WORKING FREE OF CHARGE AND ARE HELPING RESTORE COMMUNITIES AND AN ECOSYSTEM IN A WAY THAT EVEN ENGINEERING AND ALL THE MONEY WE HAVE PERHAPS CAN'T DO NEARLY AS WELL.

>> WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS KIND OF HAPPENING GENERATIONALLY IN HOW PEOPLE PERCEIVE THE THREAT OF THE DISRUPTIONS THAT THE CLIMATE IS GOING TO BRING TO US?

>> YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LEADING THE CHARGE AND ARE MORE RECEPTIVE TO THE INFORMATION.

I THINK THE MESSAGE THAT THEY SEND TO ALL OF US IS WE ALL NEED TO BE RECEPTIVE TO THE INFORMATION.

AS I TRAVEL FROM COMMUNITY TO COMMUNITY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR POLITICS ARE, THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT AFTER A STORM, THEY ALL DO WAKE UP TO THE REALITIES THEY FACE.

I THINK MORE AND MORE IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO LISTEN TO THE RESEARCH, WE DO LISTEN TO SURVIVORS, WE LISTEN TO THE NEXT GENERATION WHO WILL INHERIT THIS EARTH AND WE TAKE STEPS TO BUILD BACK SAFER AND TO UPDATE OUR COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IN HARM'S WAY.

THERE'S THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE DEAL, WHICH OFFER BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING TO HELP COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GOING AND KNOCKING ON DOORS AT EACH TOWN SAYING, TAKE THIS MONEY.

LOCAL LEADERS NEED TO LISTEN AND THEY IMMEDIATE TO LISTEN TO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND THEY NEED TO HELP GET ACCESS TO THAT FUNDING.

GRANTS ARE AVAILABLE.

BUT IT'S UP TO EACH COMMUNITY TO IDENTIFY THE RISKS AND THEN TO APPLY FOR THOSE GRANTS.

I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS LISTENING.

OFTEN, LISTENING TO THE NEXT GENERATION WHICH HAS BEEN MORE VOCAL THAN MOST.

>> AUTHOR OF "BEFORE IT'S GONE" JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY TONIGHT, THE OLYMPIC FLAME IS BURNING BRIGHT AS IT BEGINS ITS JOURNEY TO PARIS.

THE TORCH HAS BEEN LIT IN GREECE, SYMBOLIZING THE ETERNAL SPIRIT.

IN THE CEREMONY, ACTORS DANCE AND APPEAL TO THE GOD OF SUN AND LIGHT.

NOW THE RELAY BEGINS, THE FLAME WILL BE CARRIED FOR 11 DAYS ACROSS GREECE BEFORE TRAVELING BY BOAT TO FRANCE.

>> WE ARE VERY PROUD TO CARRY THE FLAME FOR THE FIRST TIME BY THE SEA AND MOVE THE SHIP BY SAIL.

IT'S GOING TO IMPACT THE WORLD ABOUT THE HISTORY OF FRANCE, THE LINK BETWEEN GREECE AND FRANCE AND FOR THE ECOLOGIC TRANSFER.

THE SHIP IS THE SAME AGE AS OLYMPIC GAMES.

>> OF COURSE, IT ALL CULMINATES IN PARIS WITH THE LIGHTING OF THE OLYMPIC CAULDRON AT THE OPENING CEREMONY AT THE END OF JULY.

>>> THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.

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