August 23, 2024

>> HELLO EVERYONE, WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO" AND HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>> TOGETHER, LET US WRITE THE NEXT GREAT CHAPTER IN THE MOST EXTRAORDINARY STORY.

>> KAMALA HARRIS IS BIG MOMENT, THE VP TAKES CENTER STAGE IN HER QUEST TO BECOME AMERICA'S FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT, THEN JAMIE HARRISON TALKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT THE HISTORIC WEEK IN CHICAGO AND THE CHALLENGES DEMOCRATS FACE AHEAD OF NOVEMBER.

PLUS, WHERE BROADWAY MEETS THE INTERNET, I SPEAK TO THE TALENTS BEHIND A HIT PLAY JOB, INTENSE THRILLER ABOUT THE DIGITAL WORLD WREAKING HAVOC IN OUR LIVES.

>> "AMANPOUR & CO" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, CANDACE KING LEARTHE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS, MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM EVERYONE, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA , SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, IN THE END, HISTORY MAY HAVE BEEN MADE IN RECORD TIME, JUST OVER ONE MONTH SINCE PRESIDENT BIDEN DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE, KAMALA HARRIS HAS BECOME THE FIRST WOMAN OF COLOR TO BECOME A MAJOR PARTY'S PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE.>> I ACCEPT YOUR NOMINATION AS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.>> AMIDST THE DEMOCRATS ON DISPLAY THIS WEEK, THERE HAS BEEN A TANGIBLE STRAIN OF CAUTION AT THE DNC, SPEAKER AFTER SPEAKER REMINDED VIEWERS THAT IT IS STILL A TOSS- UP, SO WHAT DID LAST NIGHT SPEECH TEACH US ABOUT HOW THE REST OF THIS STORY WILL PLAY OUT AND WHAT THE REPUBLICANS NEED TO DO TO RECAPTURE THE MOMENTUM.

LET'S GET SOME INSIGHT, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM FROM CHICAGO EVAN, IT IS GOOD TO SEE YOU.

WE HAD OUR SHOW MEETING THIS MORNING AND WE ALL JOKED BUT I THINK THERE'S SOME SERIOUSNESS TO THIS THAT THIS HAS BEEN A YEAR THAT ACTUALLY HAS BEEN JUST A MONTH, I MEAN IT HAS BEEN INSANE WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN JUST THE COURSE OF FOUR WEEKS.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE EVER EXPERIENCED SOMETHING QUITE LIKE THIS IN YOUR CAREER.

>> NO, WE ARE DOING POLITICS AND HISTORY AT LIGHT SPEED AT THIS POINT, IT IS REALLY JUST STAGGERING TO THINK HOW DIFFERENT THIS CONVENTION MIGHT HAVE BEEN HAD JOE BIDEN STILL BEEN THE NOMINEE.

I THINK YOU SAW AT THE BEGINNING OF THE WEEK THE TREMENDOUS OUTPOURING OF GRATITUDE TO HIM, NOT ONLY FOR THE FOUNDATION UPON WHICH NOW KAMALA HARRIS IS BUILDING THIS LAST 70 DAYS OF THE CAMPAIGN, BUT ALSO LET'S BE HONEST, IT IS ALSO FOR HIM STEPPING ASIDE, FROM MAKING THAT RARE POLITICAL CHOICE TO GIVE UP POWER, JUST THE SHEER PACE OF THAT TRANSFORMATION AND EVERYTHING IT IMPLIES ABOUT HOW YOU RUN AGAINST REPUBLICANS, HOW DONALD TRUMP WILL RESPOND, IT HAS ALL BEEN TURNED UPSIDE DOWN.

>> AND WHILE DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN DEPICTING KAMALA HARRIS AS NOT ONLY ALIGNED WITH THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN AND ALL THE FLAWS THAT THEY'VE BEEN ELABORATING ON, THEY SAY EMANATED FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT ALSO HE'S TRYING TO PAINT HER AS A COMMUNIST, SOCIALIST, RADICAL LEFTIST, AND LAST NIGHT AND THIS WEEK I WOULD SAY, WE HAVE REALLY SEEN FROM ALL OF THOSE WHO WE HEARD FROM AND ENDING WITH KAMALA HARRIS HERSELF, DESCRIBING HERSELF AS THE CHANGE CANDIDATE, BUT ALSO THE MODERATE CANDIDATE WHO IS THE SAME CANDIDATE OF THESE TWO.

DO YOU THINK SHE WAS EFFECTIVE IN DOING THAT?

>> IT WAS VERY NOTICEABLE, ESSENTIALLY A PORTRAIT THAT SHE WAS PRESENTING OF HERSELF AND OF THE PARTY WAS IN STARK CONTRAST TO WHAT IS INCREASINGLY A SET OF POLICY POSITIONS THAT TRUMP AND JD VANCE HOLD THAT ARE WILDLY OUT OF STEP OF WHERE AMERICANS ARE.

TAKE THE WAY SHE TALKED ABOUT ABORTION AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, THE IDEA THAT REPUBLICANS WOULD INSTITUTE THE PLANS THEY TALKED ABOUT THAT WOULD REQUIRE A CHILD, A VICTIM OF SEXUAL ABUSE TO HAVE TO CARRY A CHILD TO TERM BECAUSE OF WHERE THEY LIVE AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

IT STRIKES PEOPLE AS OFFENSIVE TO HOW WE PERCEIVE OUR SYSTEM TO WORK.

AND I THINK THE SUBTLE SUBTEXT AND IN SOME CASES THE EXPLICIT GOAL WAS TO SAY TO PEOPLE, I HAVE LIVED A LIFE LIKE YOURS, I CAN LIVE A LIFE LIKE YOURS TODAY, I HAVE A BLENDED FAMILY, WE ARE A STORY OF AMERICA THAT IS RELATABLE AND THAT WE ARE NOT OPERATING IN SOME ESOTERIC WORLD OF IDEOLOGY AND POLICY THAT FEELS UNAPPROACHABLE.

AND I THINK THERE WAS A POWERFUL CLIP THAT YOU RAN EARLIER JUST A MOMENT AGO ABOUT HOW SHE SAID TOGETHER WE WILL TURN OF AGE TO WRITE ESSENTIALLY A NEW CHAPTER IN THE AMERICAN STORY, THAT IS THREE BIG IDEAS, TOGETHER THAT IS A VERY UNIFYING CONCEPT, SHE NEVER MENTIONED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN HER SPEECH.

SHE TALKED ABOUT AMERICA OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

SHE ALSO SAID THIS IS AN AMERICAN STORY, RECLAIMING IT IN A SENSE, SAYING THAT A DEMOCRAT CAN SPEAK ON THE BEHALF OF AMERICAN PATRIOTIC VALUES AND THE KEY IDEA IS A NEW CHAPTER.

NOT ONLY A REFERENCE TO DONALD TRUMP, SORT OF A RETURN TO THE EXPERIENCE WE ALL HAD FOUR YEARS AGO, BUT ALSO A RECOGNITION BY SUPPLANTING JOE BIDEN ON THE TICKET THAT SHE HAS REALLY BEGUN THIS PROCESS OF A NEW GENERATION STEPPING IN.>> AND WE HAVE SEEN A SLIGHT REFOCUS FROM HER CAMPAIGN AS OPPOSED TO WHAT WE SAW WITH BIDEN'S CAMPAIGN REALLY FOCUSING ON DEMOCRACY.

IT SEEMS THAT KAMALA HARRIS IS MORE FOCUSED ON FREEDOM AND SPECIFICALLY REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS FOR WOMEN.

AND THE WAY SHE CHARACTERIZED DONALD TRUMP, NOT NECESSARILY AS A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY, SHE CALLED HIM AN UNSERIOUS MAN WHO CAN DO SERIOUS HARM TO THE COUNTRY GIVEN SOME OF HIS POLICIES, SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO FREEDOM, INCLUDING FREEDOMS FOR WOMEN AND REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS.

I WANT TO PLAY SOME SOUND FOR YOU FROM WHAT SHE SAID ABOUT THAT.>> HE PLANS TO CREATE A NATIONAL ANTIABORTION COORDINATOR, AND FORCED STATES TO REPORT ON WOMEN'S MISCARRIAGES AND ABORTIONS.

SIMPLY PUT, THEY ARE OUT OF THEIR MINDS.>> WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT STRATEGY?

AND WE HEARD IT FROM THE OBAMA'S IN A SENSE, MOCKING DONALD TRUMP, KAMALA HARRIS SAYING HE'S NOT A SERIOUS PERSON, CALLING THE REPUBLICANS OUT OF THEIR MINDS.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO WORK?>> THIS IDEA OF USING FREEDOM AS A CENTRAL IDEA OF THE CAMPAIGN, IN FACT DOES PREDATE HARRIS' ROLE AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

IF YOU LISTEN TO THE VERY FIRST WORD OF THE FIRST AD THAT JOE BIDEN RAN IN HIS CAMPAIGN, IT WAS FREEDOM.

THERE WAS THIS FEELING THAT THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR DEMOCRATS BECAUSE OF THESE INTRUSIONS INTO PRIVATE LIFE THAT AMERICANS WERE SEEING FROM REPUBLICANS, BUT THE TRUTH IS, AND THIS GETS TO THE CORE OF THE POLITICAL MOMENT WE ARE IN, THE MESSENGER MATTERS AS MUCH AS THE MESSAGE AND WHEN IT COMES FROM KAMALA HARRIS, THE WAY SHE CAN TALK ABOUT ABORTION WITH A FULL THROATED SENSE OF CREDIBILITY ON THE QUESTION, IN A WAY THAT JOE BIDEN FRANKLY COULD NOT, IT IS MORE POWERFUL AND IT HAS LANDED VERY DIFFERENTLY WITH THE PUBLIC AND I THINK IT IS NOT AS MUCH ABOUT RAISING THE SENSE OF ALARM ABOUT DONALD TRUMP, THAT IS VERY MUCH A PART OF HER MESSAGE BUT SHE IS ACTUALLY SAYING TO AMERICANS, THAT IT IS OKAY TO LAUGH AT THIS MAN, IT IS OKAY TO SAY THAT HE IS NOT NORMAL, TO SAY THAT HE'S WEIRD, TO USE THE TERM WE HAVE BEEN HEARING FOR WEEKS, THAT HAS TURNED OUT TO BE A VERY POWERFUL COMBINATION TO POINT OUT THE UNSERIOUS NEWS OF THE PERSON AND THE SERIOUSNESS OF THE CONSEQUENCES.

>> THAT HAS REALLY GOTTEN UNDER HIS SKIN, HE HASN'T BEEN ABLE TO FIND AN EFFECTIVE ATTACK ON KAMALA HARRIS ON THIS TICKET YET, AND FLAILING REALLY, HIS ADVISERS ARE REALLY DESPERATE TO STAY ON MESSAGE AND FOCUS ON THE POLICIES AND SPECIFICS AND HE STILL IS LOOKING FOR THAT LANE WHERE HE CAN GO ON THE PERSONAL ATTACK AND IT'S NOT WORKING IN THE WAY THAT IT MAY HAVE IN THE PAST.

I ALSO NOTICED THIS WEEK AND I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE, A DIFFERENCE IN HOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE EMBRACING PATRIOTISM AND JOY AND THE FUTURE OF THE COUNTRY.

YOU SAW MANY NIGHTS WHERE THERE WERE CHANTS REPEATEDLY, USA, USA, YOU HEARD KAMALA HARRIS TALK ABOUT HOW EXCEPTIONAL THIS COUNTRY IS AND YES THEY ARE STILL PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED BUT ONLY IN THIS COUNTRY TO THE DAUGHTER OF TWO IMMIGRANTS BE THE CANDIDATES FOR THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY FOR PRESIDENT.

AND PEGGY EVEN PICKED UP ON IT TODAY, SHE SAID THEY STOLE TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN THEMES OF FAITH AND PATRIOTISM AND CLAIMED THEM AS THEIR OWN.

HOW DO YOU THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE VIEWED SPECIFICALLY AMONG THOSE TARGETED VOTERS, THE UNDECIDED AND THE INDEPENDENCE?>> IT HAS TURNED OUT TO BE AN IMPORTANT THEME HERE, I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH SOMEBODY ON THE SIDELINES OF THE CONVENTION WHO WAS LOOKING AT VOTER ATTITUDES, STUDYING FOCUS GROUPS, AND SHE SAID THERE WAS THIS RESERVOIR OF ENERGY, OF PEOPLE PARTICULARLY OUT IN THESE SUBURBAN AREAS WHO FELT AT WHICH PATRIOTISM HAD BEEN TAKEN FROM THEM.

THERE WAS A MONOPOLY ON IT, THE LANGUAGE OF PATRIOTISM ON THE RIGHT.

INSTEAD OF BEING ABLE TO FLY AN AMERICAN FLAG YEARS -- AT YOUR HOUSE AND SAYING I'M DOING THIS ON BEHALF OF THE CENTRIST POSSESSION, IT IS ALMOST WEAPON ICED BY THE TRUMP MEGA REPUBLICAN MOVEMENT, THAT IS HOW IT WAS DESCRIBED.

THERE WAS THIS EFFORT TO REACH OUT AND SAY WE CAN TURN HOW THAT FEELS.

YOU ARE HEARING FROM REPUBLICANS AND YOU SAW SOME OF THEM ON THE STAGE DURING THE DEMOCRATIC MENTIONS, PEOPLE LIKE ADAM KINZINGER, REACHING OUT EXPLICITLY TO HIS FELLOW REPUBLICANS AND SAYING TO VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT THIS YEAR IS NOT TO BETRAY YOUR VALUES, IT IS TO CEMENT YOUR VALUES, TO DO AN ACT OF PATRIOTISM.

THAT IS THE THEME THAT IS AVAILABLE BUT HASN'T BEEN TAKEN UP UNTIL NOW AND IT IS POWERFUL.

>> AND FINALLY A TOUCHING DISPLAY OF GRATITUDE AND APPRECIATION FOR JOE BIDEN MONDAY NIGHT, WE HEARD FROM THE PRESIDENT AS WELL, WE SAW THE EMBRACE AND THE CHEMISTRY BETWEEN HIM AND KAMALA HARRIS, TELLING HIM HOW MUCH SHE APPRECIATES HIM AND EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF HOW HE IS DOING RIGHT NOW AND HOW HE SEES THE NEXT FIVE MONTHS FOR HIM?

I KNOW HE IS ON VACATION IN CALIFORNIA WITH HIS FAMILY RIGHT NOW.>> THAT WAS AN IMPORTANT MOMENT FOR HIM PERSONALLY AND ALSO FOR THE PARTY IN A WAY TO MAKE VISIT THIS TRANSITION FROM HIM NOW AND TO HER, PRIVATELY AND PERSONALLY THIS IS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME FOR HIM.

AS SOMEBODY VERY CLOSE TO HIM SAID TO ME, THE TRUTH IS, HE IS FLUMMOXED ABOUT HOW THINGS TURNED OUT THE WAY THEY DID AND THAT GOES BACK TO SOMETHING WE TALKED ABOUT AT THE VERY BEGINNING WHICH IS HOW FAST THIS HAS ALL TRANSPIRED.

OF COURSE TWO MONTHS AGO HE WAS GOING TO BE THE NOMINEE.

SO, HE IS STILL AT THIS MOMENT TRYING TO COME TO TERMS WITH IT.

HE IS AWARE OF THE IDEA THAT PERHAPS PEOPLE THINK THAT HE'S ANGRY, THEY ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST THAT, SOMEBODY DESCRIBED HIM AS DISAPPOINTED BUT NOT DEPRESSED.

THAT IS IN SOME WAYS THE COMBINATION OF EXPERIENCE, AND IT WILL TAKE TIME, TO BE ABLE TO BEGIN TO SEE THIS WITH SOME PERSPECTIVE.>> INDEED, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US ONCE AGAIN, WHAT A YEAR THIS MONTH HAS BEEN.

THANK YOU.>>> NOW, WHEN THE DNC KICKED OFF ON MONDAY, JAMIE HARRISON WAS FIRST AT THE PODIUM.

THE SOUTH CAROLINA NATIVE REFLECTED ON THE MOMENT WRITING ON TWITTER, ONLY IN AMERICA COULD A ROUND HEADED BOY RAISED BY A SINGLE MOTHER AND UP DABBLING IN A HISTORIC CONVENTION TO NOMINATE OUR FIRST BLACK WOMAN PRESIDENT.

HARRISON BURST ONTO THE NATIONAL SCENE IN 2020 WHEN HE LAUNCHED A SURPRISINGLY COMPETITIVE SUMMIT CAMPAIGN AGAINST LINDSEY GRAHAM.

WE SPOKE TO HARRISON ABOUT A WEEK AND WHAT CHALLENGES HIS PARTY FACES BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER.>> THANK YOU, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> CONGRATULATIONS, IT WAS A PRETTY CLEAR CONVENTION WITH A LOT OF THEMES AND LET ME GO THROUGH THEM, ONE OF THEM WAS FREEDOM.

HE USED A BEYONCE SONG, IT WAS A SHIFT FROM THE THEME OF DEMOCRACY THAT JOE BIDEN WAS USING AND IMPORTANT THEME BUT SORT OF A LESS PERSONAL ONE.

TELL ME ABOUT THE SHIFT IN THE THEME OF FREEDOM.

>> WELL, FREEDOM, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND WE HAVE SEEN A FULL ASSAULT ON THE FREEDOMS OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

I MEAN, TAKE A LOOK AT WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY, FROM THE FIRST TIME IN 50 YEARS, WOMEN DON'T HAVE THE FREEDOM TO CONTROL THEIR OWN BODIES ALL ACROSS THIS COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, I'M 48 AND ALL OF MY LIFE, UP UNTIL JUST A FEW YEARS AGO, WE HAVE BEEN GAMING THE WORD FREEDOM IN THIS COUNTRY, GAINING THE RIGHT TO VOTE BECAUSE MY GRANDPARENTS DIDN'T ALWAYS HAVE THAT.

WE HAVE BEEN GAINING THE RIGHT TO CONTROL THEIR BODIES, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME BECAUSE OF DONALD TRUMP AND THE PEOPLE HE APPOINTED TO THE SUPREME COURT AND BECAUSE OF THIS SUPREME COURT, THOSE FREEDOMS HAVE BEEN RIPPED AWAY, ROE VERSUS WADE DESTROYED IT, THEN YOU HEAR IT IN SOME OF THESE OPINIONS FROM FOLKS LIKE CLARENCE THOMAS WHO SAID WE ARE NOT DONE IN TERMS OF GOING AFTER OUR FREEDOMS AND THAT IS WHY WE HAD TO MOVE FORWARD IN TERMS OF MARRIAGE EQUALITY, BECAUSE CLARENCE THOMAS WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT PARTICULAR FREEDOM THAT HE HAS BEEN GAINING OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST FEW YEARS.

SO FREEDOM IS A REALLY IMPORTANT COMPONENT AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU ARE DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN OR INDEPENDENT, AMERICA IS BUILT ON FREEDOM.

AND SOMEBODY HAS TO PROTECT IT.

WE DON'T SEE THE PROTECTION COMING FROM THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE THOSE HOPEFUL WARRIORS THAT WILL DO EVERYTHING WITHIN OUR POWER TO PROTECT AMERICA'S FREEDOM.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS I NOTICED LAST NIGHT, AS I'M SITTING IN THE HALL, I'M SEEING SOMEBODY UNUSUAL FROM MY DAYS OF COVERING DEMOCRATIC CONVENTIONS, EVERYBODY HAD AN AMERICAN FLAG, PEOPLE WERE CHANTING USA, THE FLAGS MARCHING DOWN, THE SPEAKERS TALKING ABOUT USA AND PATRIOTISM.

TELL ME ABOUT THE DECISIONS YOU MADE TO RECAPTURE THE NOTION OF THE FLAG, THE COUNTRY AND PATRIOTISM.

>> IT IS IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU SAY THAT YOU SUPPORT THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, THAT MEANS SUPPORTING WHAT OUR CONSTITUTION SAYS, SUPPORTING WHAT THE DECLARATION SAYS, WE HAVE HAD AND HEARD FROM DONALD TRUMP, HIS OWN WORDS, THAT HE WANTS TO BE A DICTATOR ON DAY ONE.

THAT HE'S OKAY WITH IGNORING AND SOMETIMES PUSHING OFF THE CONSTITUTION OF THESE UNITED STATES.

JOE BIDEN SAID THIS ALSO CLEARLY, YOU CAN'T JUST LOVE THIS COUNTRY ONLY WHEN YOU WIN.

THIS IS ABOUT LOVING AMERICA ALL THE TIME.

AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LOOKS LIKE AMERICA.

WE REPRESENT THE DIVERSITY AND THE STRENGTH AND THE VALUES OF THIS COUNTRY.

WE BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY, REGARDLESS OF YOUR RACE, WHO YOU LOVE, HOW YOU LOVE, HOW YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF, SHOULD BE ABLE TO LIVE THEIR AMERICAN DREAM.

I CAN'T SAY THAT FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

YOU LOOK AT DONALD TRUMP, LOOK AT THAT CONVENTION, WHERE YOU SAW SUCH HAPPINESS AND JOY, IT WAS LIKE A BIG FAMILY REUNION.

PEOPLE WERE DANCING.

THEY WERE CRYING, HUGGING.

YOU LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN CONVENTION, THESE PEOPLE HAD SIGNS ABOUT MASS DEPORTATION, THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT BY IMMIGRANTS, THAT IS THE STARK CONTRAST BETWEEN THE PARTIES, THEY ARE DOOM AND GLOOM AND FEAR AND WE ARE HOPE AND JOY AND I THINK THAT BEATS DOOM AND FEAR EVERY TIME.

>> ANOTHER THING THAT STRUCK ME WHICH SEEMED DIFFERENT FROM PREVIOUS CONVENTIONS WAS THE EMPHASIS LAST NIGHT IN PARTICULAR ON NATIONAL SECURITY.

HAVING VETERANS FROM THE PARTY UP THERE, HAVING LEON PENETTA UP THERE AND THE VICE PRESIDENT SAID IT HERSELF AND HER ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, THINK ABOUT THE NEED TO PROTECT, THAT A WOMAN CAN BE A COMMANDER IN CHIEF STRONG ON NATIONAL DEFENSE IN THE MILITARY>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE WERE THINKING, LISTEN, WE KNEW HOW STRONG THE VP IS, AND A LOT OF WORLD LEADERS KNOW HOW STRONG THE VP IS AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DEMONSTRATE THAT.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO IS RESPECTED ON THE WORLD STAGE.

YOU REMEMBER EARLY ON IN THIS ADMINISTRATION WHEN THERE WAS SOME FRICTION BECAUSE OF THE CONTRACT WITH AUSTRALIA AND FRANCE.

WELL, KAMALA HARRIS EARLY ON IN THIS ADMINISTRATION WOULD SOOTHE OVER THE FRUSTRATIONS IN FRANCE, SHE AND THE PRESIDENT OF FRANCE ARE NOW CLOSE, AND SHE ACTUALLY HELPED TO REBUILD AND STRENGTHEN THAT RELATIONSHIP, HE HAS BEEN AN ALLY FOR SUCH A LONG TIME.

SO, SHE IS MET WITH HUNDREDS OF WORLD LEADERS.

THIS PRESIDENT IS EXTREMELY STRONG.

BUT SHE'S ALSO VERY EMPATHETIC.

SHE UNDERSTANDS, SHE IS A PROGENY IN THIS, SHE UNDERSTANDS THE HARDSHIPS AND STRUGGLES THAT SOME FAITH IN MANY COUNTRIES.

HER VISIT TO AFRICA DIDN'T GET A LOT OF COVERAGE, BUT IT WAS SO AMAZING TO SEE AND TO WITNESS PARTICULARLY AS A BLACK MAN.

SO, I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HER ON THAT STAGE AS OUR COMMANDER IN CHIEF BECAUSE SHE'S GOING TO BE STRONG BUT SHE'S ALSO GOING TO HAVE A HEART AND UNDERSTAND THE TRIALS AND TRIBULATIONS THAT SO MANY FACE.>> AS PARTY CHAIR, YOU HAD TO MAKE A PRETTY STRONG.

ABOUT 4 1/2 WEEKS AGO, SUDDENLY YOU ARE PLANNING FOR THIS CONVENTION OF RE-NOMINATING JOE BIDEN, AND BOOM, YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT PITTED WHICH I WILL SCRAMBLE TO DO TO CHANGE THE CONVENTION.

>> WELL, SOME OF IT WASN'T REALLY A BIG PITTED TO BE QUITE HONEST, BECAUSE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT, IN 2020, JOE BIDEN AND KAMALA HARRIS REALLY DID NOT GET A TRADITIONAL CONVENTION.

WE WERE ONLINE WITH COVID, THEY DIDN'T GET THE TRADITIONAL INAUGURATION, THEY ACTUALLY DIDN'T HAVE ALL THE POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE FOR THE INAUGURATION SO WE WENT INTO THIS CONVENTION LOOKING FOR A HOST CITY THAT CAN HELP TELL THEIR STORY AND THE STORY OF THIS ADMINISTRATION AND THE ACHIEVEMENTS.

BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, THINK OF HOW WE TELL THE STORY OF JOE BIDEN OR KAMALA HARRIS.

SO, WHEN THE SWITCH HAPPENED, WE KNEW WE WERE ALREADY PREPARED TO TELL THE STORY OF KAMALA HARRIS BUT NOW WE ALSO NEEDED TO BE ABLE TO TELL THE STORY OF TIM WALZ.

AND THEN SHIFT HOW WE TOLD JOE BIDEN STORY NOT AS THE NOMINEE BUT AS THE TRANSFORMATIONAL PRESIDENT THAT HE HAS BEEN.

I WILL GO DOWN SAYING THAT JOE BIDEN IS THE MOST TRANSFORMATIONAL PRESIDENT OF MY LIFETIME.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS LEGISLATIVE ACHIEVEMENTS, IT IS HARD TO FIND ANY COMPARISON OUTSIDE COME IN TERMS OF THE SHEER NUMBER AND VOLUME, AND IMPACT OF THOSE LEGISLATIVE ACHIEVEMENTS AND TO GIVE IT ANOTHER NOTCH, HE DID IT WITH A 50-50 SENATE AND LESS THAN FIVE SEAT MAJORITY, THE SAME MAJORITY THAT REPUBLICANS HAVE, SO WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD DO THAT, WE GIVE THE PERSON HIS CHANCE, BUT TELL THE STORY OF KAMALA HARRIS.

>> I WAS WALKING DOWN THE HALL TO THE PALESTINIAN PROTESTERS AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS HAD TO NAVIGATE.

AND I WANT TO READ YOU FROM HER SPEECH BECAUSE SHE DID A VERY CAREFUL NAVIGATION OF IT, SHE SAID I WILL ALWAYS STAND UP FOR ISRAEL'S RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF, THEN SHE SAID, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED IN GAZA IS DEVASTATING.

DESPERATE, HUNGRY PEOPLE FLEEING FOR SAFETY OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THE SCALE OF SUFFERING IS HEARTBREAKING.

TO ME, THAT WAS A SHIFT OF TONE, A NOTICEABLE SHIFT OF TONE FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN TO JUST REALLY EMPATHIZE WITH THE HEARTBREAKING PLIGHT OF MANY PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

HOW IS SHE GOING TO TRY TO KEEP THE PARTY TOGETHER ON THOSE ISSUES, ESPECIALLY WHEN SO MANY PALESTINIANS FEEL DISENFRANCHISED NOW?>> WELL, THAT IS WHAT I MENTIONED EARLIER, ABOUT STRENGTH AND EMPATHY.

AND THOSE TWO THINGS CAN COEXIST AT THE SAME TIME, THEY CAN BE IN THE SAME PERSON.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT I THOUGHT THAT SECTION OF THE VICE PRESIDENTS SPEECH WAS JUST ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON REALLY.

IT WAS BEAUTIFUL.

IN MANY WAYS.

BECAUSE THAT IS WHERE WE HAVE TO BE, WE CAN STAND WITH OUR ALLIES AND AT THE SAME TIME WE CAN ALSO SEE THE HURT AND THE PAIN AND TO ACTIVELY LEAN INTO IT, DO THINGS TO ADDRESS THAT AS WELL.

IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BLACK AND WHITE.

THERE IS ROOM IN THE MIDDLE IN ORDER TO PAVE THAT PATH AND I THINK THIS IS A PERSON WHO CAN DO IT.

AND I HOPE WE GET IT DONE BEFORE SHE BECOMES PRESIDENT.

BECAUSE THE NEED RIGHT NOW IS TREMENDOUS AND IT IS GREAT.

I KNOW THAT SHE IS FEVERISHLY WORKING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY TEAM DAY IN AND DAY OUT TO TRY TO MAKE PROGRESS HERE AND TO GO AND SECURE US.

>> YOU HAD TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE A SPEAKER FROM THE UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES WHO WERE REPRESENTING THE PALESTINIAN CAUSE, TO WHAT EXTENT DID YOU HAVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT HAVING A PALESTINIAN SPEAKER AND WHY IN THE END DID YOU NOT HAVE A PRO- PALESTINIAN SPEAKER DURING THE CONVENTION?>> WELL, THAT SECTION OF OUR PROGRAM I WASN'T ACTIVELY INVOLVED WITH.

BUT, WHAT WE TRIED TO DO IS TO MAKE SURE WE BROUGHT FOLKS ON THE STAGE THAT WERE RESPECTED AND HAD INFLUENCE ON ALL PERSPECTIVES AND THERE WERE FOLKS ON THAT STAGE THAT HAD THOSE REFLECTIONS.

THERE WERE REQUESTS FROM VARIOUS POCKETS.

IT IS A STRENGTH BUT IT CAN ALSO AT TIMES CREATE DIFFICULTIES BECAUSE THE SHEER VOLUME OF GROUPS, IN SOME FASHION, IT'S LIKE A COALITION WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

SIMILAR TO WHAT YOU FIND IN EUROPE, ALL OF THESE SEGMENTS AND GROUPS.

>> BUT, TRYING TO GET BACK TO THAT ISSUE OF WHETHER OR NOT TO HAVE THAT SPEAKER BECAUSE IT WAS A TWO OR THREE DAY DISCUSSION, ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT ESPECIALLY MICHIGAN AND OTHER PLACES BY DECIDING NOT HAVE A PRO-PALESTINIAN SPEAKER, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO TO REACH OUT TO THAT COMMUNITY?>> WELL, I THINK THE VICE PRESIDENTS SPEECH MADE THE FOUNDATION FOR THAT, SHE SPOKE HER TRUTH.

AND I THINK HER TRUTH, WHEN YOU TALK OF THOSE COMMUNITIES, I THINK YOU SEE SOME SEMBLANCE OF ALL OF THAT IN THOSE COMMUNITIES.

SO SHE WILL CONTINUE TO GO AND REACH OUT TO THOSE AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO GO TO THOSE AREAS, WE WILL GO TO WHERE PEOPLE ARE AND HAVE DISCUSSIONS AND NOT ONLY WILL IT JUST BE NOT JUST WORDS, BUT I'M A FIRM BELIEVER, IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT TELLING PEOPLE WHERE YOU ARE, IT IS ABOUT SHOWING THEM AND THE MOST POWERFUL WE -- THING WE CAN DO OVER THE NEXT FEW WEEKS IS NOT JUST TELL PEOPLE ABOUT OUR POSITION, BUT TO ACTUALLY SHOW THEM WITH OUR ACTIONS AND THAT IS WHAT THE VICE PRESIDENT IS WORKING ON DAY IN AND DAY OUT, TO SHOW FOLKS THAT WE ARE COMMITTED TO GETTING A CEASE- FIRE, WE ARE COMMITTED TO PROTECTING THE ISRAELI PEOPLE AS WELL AS THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

AND I THINK OUR ACTIONS ARE GOING TO BE MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN JUST OUR WORDS.>> A WHILE BACK, YOU SAID AS DNC CHAIR, ONE OF YOUR BIG GOALS WOULD BE TO RE-ENGAGE AND WIN BACK LATINO AND BLACK MEN WHO HAVE DRIFTED AWAY FROM THE PARTY.

TRUMP JUST YESTERDAY WAS BRAGGING THAT HE IS GETTING LACHMAN, LATINOS FOR HIM, TELL ME WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THAT REGARD?

>> I THINK DONALD TRUMP CONTINUES HIS DELUSION.

BECAUSE HE'S NOT GETTING LACHMAN AND LATINOS, FOR THE LAST 1 1/2 YEARS, WE HAVE BEEN GOING AROUND INTO THE COMMUNITIES, MAKING SURE WE HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH BLACK MEN AND LATINO MEN SO THEY UNDERSTAND THAT WE DO NOT TAKE THEM FOR GRANTED, WE SEE THEM AND WE HEAR THEM AND WE VALUE THEM AND WE ARE GOING TO FIGHT FOR THEM.

EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE SEEN AND HEARD.

EVERYBODY.

AND THEY WANT TO KNOW THAT YOU HAVE AN AGENDA FOR THEM, THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THE HARDSHIPS THAT THEY ARE FACING.

AND I THINK THE VICE PRESIDENT IS ROLLING OUT THINGS BECAUSE THAT ECONOMIC ANXIETY IS STILL A VERY PRESENT THING.

BLACK MEN AND LATINO MEN WANT TO TAKE CARE OF THEIR FAMILIES, THEY WANT TO MAKE SURE THEY ARE SECURE, NOT ONLY PERSONAL SECURITY BUT ECONOMIC SECURITY AS WELL.

SO, THE MOST DEHUMANIZING THING, TO FEEL AS THOUGH HE CANNOT PROTECT, HE CANNOT DEFEND, HE CANNOT TAKE CARE AND PRODUCE FOR HIS FAMILY.

WE UNDERSTAND THAT AND WE ARE MAKING SURE THAT OUR MESSAGES ARE DILUTED WITH THAT AND MAKING SURE THAT OUTREACH IS ALSO ROOTED IN THAT.

>> THIS WAS A HISTORIC NOMINATION, A BLACK WOMAN, SOUTH ASIAN WOMAN, WE ARE SEEING HISTORY BEING MADE BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STRUCK ME IS THAT VICE PRESIDENT HARRIS DIDN'T DWELL ON THAT IN HER SPEECH, THE HISTORIC NATURE OF IT.

TELL ME ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE AS THE HISTORIC NATURE AND PERHAPS WHY SHE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT IT MORE.

>> WELL, I THINK WHAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND, REGARDLESS OF HER BACKGROUND, THIS IS A PERSON WHO IS READY ON DAY ONE TO BE THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

THERE IS NOBODY MORE EQUIPPED TO BE SO.

SHE HAS BEEN THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THESE UNITED STATES IN THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS, SHE HAS HELPED SHOULDER TO SHOULDER WITH JOE BIDEN, PAST THE MOST TRANSFORMATIONAL LEGISLATION WE HAVE SEEN IN THE LAST FEW DECADES.

TO BRING AMERICA OUT OF THE DARKNESS AND DESPAIR OF COVID, TO HELP REBUILD OUR RELATIONSHIP ABROAD SO THAT PEOPLE RESPECT AMERICA AGAIN, TO PROTECTING THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

AND SHE HAPPENS TO BE A WOMAN AND SHE HAPPENS TO BE A BLACK AND ASIAN AMERICAN DISSENT.

BUT, IT IS GROUNDBREAKING BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, PEOPLE WILL GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE WHO SHE IS AND MANY PEOPLE WILL GET THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THEMSELVES IN HER, AND THAT IS THE MOST AMAZING THING.

THIS IS A HISTORIC MOMENT, AND YOU KNOW THIS PICTURE I'VE BEEN PAINTING FOR FOLKS ALL WEEK AT THIS DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION IS THIS IMAGE, BECAUSE AGAIN, WE ARE THINKING OF THE FUTURE, THIS IMAGE OF JANUARY 20th, 2025 ON THE STEPS OF THE UNITED STATES CAPITAL, JUSTICE JACKSON STANDING THERE HOLDING THE BIBLE OF FREDERICK DOUGLASS AND KAMALA HARRIS STEPPING UP, PUTTING HER HAND ON THAT BIBLE AND TAKING HER PLEA TO TO PROTECT THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES, STANDING ON THE STEPS OF THE BUILDING.

THAT IS WHAT AMERICA CAN DO.

IT GIVES ME CHILLS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, THAT IS WHAT AMERICA CAN DO AND THE SELECTION IS WITHIN OUR POWER.

AND WE WILL REJOICE IN THE JOY OF OUR ANCESTORS AS WE MOVE FORWARD WITH THAT.>> JAMIE HARRISON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.>> FROM DEEP FAKES TO MISINFORMATION, SOCIAL MEDIA IS PROVING IT HAS THE POWER TO DISRUPT AND DESTABILIZE THE UPCOMING ELECTION, OUR NEXT GUESTS ARE USING THE BROADWAY STAGE TO SHINE A SPOTLIGHT ON EXACTLY THAT, THE DARK SIDE OF THE INTERNET.

IN THE NEW PLAY, AN EMPLOYEE AT A TECH COMPANY TASKED WITH SCROLLING THROUGH UNSAVORY CONTENT IS PUT ON LEAVE AFTER A VIDEO OF HER GOES VIRAL.

SHE GOES TO HER CRISIS THERAPIST AND SHE GIVES HER THE ALL CLEAR TO RETURN TO WORK.

I SAT DOWN WITH THE TWO STARS, ALONGSIDE THE PLAYWRIGHT, MAX WOLF.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US, REALLY BLOWN AWAY BY THIS SHOW SO I'M EXCITED TO BE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU, MAX.

WE WILL GET TO WHERE THIS CONCEPT CAME FROM BUT LET'S JUMP INTO THE PLOT AND SYDNEY'S CHARACTER, JANE, HER LIFE IS SHATTERED AS A CONTENT MODERATOR.

I'M WONDERING IF YOU HAVE PERSONALLY HAD ANY TYPE OF LIFE ALTERING OR EXPERIENCES WITH CONTENT THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU AS DISTURBING ONLINE.

>> NOTHING DIRECTLY, BUT I'M A CHRONICALLY ONLINE PERSON AND SOMEBODY RAISED ON THE INTERNET SO I THINK A LOT OF HORRIBLE THINGS NORMALIZED TO ME VERY QUICKLY FROM A VERY YOUNG AGE.

AND IT WASN'T UNTIL YEARS LATER THAT I SORT OF WAS ABLE TO REALIZE THAT THOSE WERE STRANGE THINGS TO HAVE SEEN.

AND I'M NOT AN OUTLIER, I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE GROW UP THAT WAY IN THE MODERN WORLD.

BUT I HAD A VERY STRANGE TECH JOB WHEN I FIRST GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE, WHERE I WORKED FOR THIS COMPANY THAT BUILT FICTIONAL INFLUENCERS, SO THAT WAS MY MOST DIRECT RELATED EXPERIENCE TO WHAT JANE GOES THROUGH.

WHERE I WASN'T LOOKING AT AWFUL CONTENT ON THE INTERNET BUT I WAS LIVING LIFE AS THIS FAKE FAMOUS PERSON, SO I WAS GETTING SENT MESSAGES ABOUT HOW MUCH PEOPLE LOVED ME AND HOW MUCH THEY HATED ME.

THAT WAS MORE DISTURBING THAN ANYTHING I HAD EVER SEEN AND I WAS THE MOST DIRECT INSPIRATION FOR THE PLAY.>> PETER, WITHOUT IT BEING SHOVED DOWN THE VIEWER'S THROAT, THIS IS BASED ON GENERATIONAL DIVIDES, SO AS THE OLDER, WISER OF THE PEOPLE HERE, I'M INTERVIEWING, IN THE PANEL, I'M JUST CURIOUS WHEN YOU HEAR WHAT MAX JUST SAID -- >> IT IS INSANE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU PEOPLE ARE DOING.>> I COULD JUST WATCH YOU GUYS TALK ABOUT THE SHOW BECAUSE I DO WANT TO GET A SENSE OF HOW YOU FIRST FELT WHEN YOU FIRST READ THE SCRIPT, AND I KNOW FOR YOU, IT FRIGHTENED YOU.

>> YES, IT TERRIFIED ME.

IT CONTAINS THINGS THAT REFLECT OUR WORLD IN A REAL WAY AND THEY ARE DARK.

AND I THINK THAT IS WHAT CONNECTS WITH PEOPLE.

IT REALLY SPEAKS TO THE PRESENT MOMENT AND LEAVES PEOPLE GRAPPLING WITH A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE MAYBE THE UNDERBELLY OF TECH OR THE INTERNET, BUT THAT ARE TRUE.

AND YES, IT FRIGHTENED ME FOR SURE.>> AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THE SHOW IS BASED ON YOUR CHARACTER, BEING A CONTENT MODERATOR A FACEBOOK LIKE TECHNOLOGY COMPANY, YOU ARE THE THERAPIST, PETER, AND YOU HAD A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN AND THAT WENT VIRAL.

IT WAS CAUGHT ON TAPE AND VIDEO, SOME OF THESE ARE IN PRESENT DAY AND TO KEEP YOUR JOB, HR SINCE YOU FIRST TO BE ANALYZED BY A PROFESSIONAL.

AGAIN, TRYING TO GRASP THIS NEW CONCEPT OF SOCIAL MEDIA IN A WORLD WHERE NOBODY CAN LIVE WITHOUT IT.

WHAT IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH SOCIAL MEDIA?>> AS THE REPRESENTATIVE OF THE OLDER GENERATION IN THIS, I JUST DON'T SEE THE PURPOSE OF GOING THAT DEEP INTO ALL THESE OTHER WORLDS.

THE INSTAGRAM AND THE SHARING, IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME PERSONALLY.

MY WIFE HAS DABBLED A LITTLE BIT, BUT I DON'T GET IT.

AND EVERY DAY YOU READ ABOUT SOMEBODY WHO HAS BEEN ONLINE AND SOMETHING TERRIBLE HAPPENS AND I DON'T NEED A PRESENCE THERE, WHAT'S THE DEAL?

>> HOW MUCH OF YOUR OWN RESEARCH DID YOU HAVE TO DO IN PREPARING AS A THERAPIST ROLE?

>> WE HAVE ALL BEEN TO THERAPY 1 MILLION TIMES, SO I KNOW WHAT THE DEAL IS, HOW THEY BEHAVE AND I HAVE BEEN THROUGH A LOT MYSELF.

BUT, IT'S WHAT THE CHARACTER IS DEALING WITH THAT WE DON'T HEAR ABOUT UNTIL LATER, THAT SPARKS HOW I DO WHAT I DO AND THE IDEA IS TO TALK THIS PERSON DOWN, TALK THIS PERSON DOWN FROM THE LEDGE.

>> MAX, DO YOU VIEW THE ROLE OF SOCIAL MEDIA AS IT IS PORTRAYED IN THIS PLAY AS A USEFUL TOOL FOR SOMETHING THAT ULTIMATELY IS MORE HARMFUL TO SOCIETY?>> I THINK WE ARE STILL GRAPPLING WITH THE FACT THAT IT IS JUST A UBIQUITOUS PART OF SOCIETY.

AND THERE'S THIS NOW FALSE DICHOTOMY BETWEEN ONLINE AND OFF-LINE THAT DOESN'T REALLY EXIST ANYMORE.

WE ARE ALWAYS ONLINE, YOU KNOW, WHAT HAPPENS ON THE INTERNET HAS PROFOUND RESIDENCE WITH OUR LIVED REALITY.

I THINK MOST DIRECTLY AND SALIENT LEE WITH THE 2016 ELECTION, WHERE ANYONE ON TWITTER OR REDDIT COULD HAVE TOLD YOU THAT THOSE POLLS ARE WRONG.

WHETHER IT IS GOOD OR BAD IS IT REALLY FOR ME TO SAY BUT WE NEED TO UNDERSTAND IT ON A DEEPER LEVEL AND WE NEED TO START MODELING WHAT A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH IT LOOKS LIKE.

YOU CAN SEE IT REPEATING ITSELF WITH A.I.

RIGHT NOW, PEOPLE ARE STILL HAVING THIS CONVERSATION OF WHETHER WE SHOULD USE IT OR NOT, IT IS TOO GOOD OF TECHNOLOGY FOR PEOPLE NOT TO USE IT, WE ARE GOING TO USE IT.

WE NEED TO PUT BLOCKS IN PLACE AND TRY TO AGAIN MODEL WHAT A HEALTHY RELATIONSHIP WITH THIS TECHNOLOGY COULD LOOK LIKE BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE THAT FOR CONTEMPORARY SOCIAL MEDIA.

IT IS EITHER GOOD OR BAD AND I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE QUESTION ANYMORE.

>> I THINK IT IS SAFE TO SAY THAT YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, YOUR CHARACTER'S RELATIONSHIP IS NOT A HEALTHY ONE.

YOU ARE INSISTENT ON GOING BACK TO YOUR JOB.

I'M WONDERING HOW MUCH IN YOUR LIFE AND HOW MUCH IN STUDYING FOR THIS ROLE, HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU ARE SO COMMITTED TO A JOB OR A PART OF YOUR LIFE THAT YOU JUST CAN'T QUIT EVEN THOUGH IT IS PERHAPS NOT THE BEST FOR YOU?>> WELL, I THINK THAT A LIFE IN THE ARTS IS NOT ALWAYS AN EASY ONE, AND IT IS A CERTAIN CALLING I THINK, TO WHEN YOU ARE FEELING THE CALLING TO BE AN ACTOR, SO IT ECHOES THE CALLING THAT MY CHARACTER FEELS TO DO WHAT SHE DOES.

SO, IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT ALWAYS EASY BUT YOU FEEL A DRIVE THAT YOU MUST CONTINUE ON THAT PATH, SO I GUESS I DO FEEL THOSE THINGS HAVE SIMILARITY.

>> AND YOU REALLY GET A SENSE FROM YOUR PERFORMANCE AND YOUR CHARACTER THAT YOUR JOB IS URGENT AND MUCH-NEEDED.>> YES, I THINK SHE SIFTS THROUGH THE INTERNET, IT'S NOT AN EASY JOB AND IN THE PLAY SHE SAYS SOMEBODY HAS TO DO IT AND THAT IS REALLY THE TRUTH.

A.I.

CAN HELP WITH THIS JOB, THIS JOB CAN BE PUSHED OFF INTO DIFFERENT COUNTRIES BUT ULTIMATELY, SOMEONE HAS TO SIFT.

AND IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE WATCHING THE PLAY I NEVER THOUGHT OF THE JOB OF A CONTENT MODERATOR, SOMEBODY HAS TO DO IT AND IT IS IMPORTANT BUT YOU ACTUALLY SPENT SOME TIME WITH A CONTENT MODERATOR AT A REAL COMPANY, AT A PARTY AND GOT A SENSE OF WHAT THAT ENTAILS.

>> VERY BRIEFLY, I ALSO HAD NO IDEA ABOUT WHAT IT WAS.

BUT, THE INTERNET IS SO FASCINATING BECAUSE IT IS ALL AROUND US, IT AFFECTS SO MUCH OF OUR LIVED REALITY, BUT WE ENGAGE WITH IT LIKE IT IS MAGIC.

WE SORT OF CONCEPTUALIZE IT AS LIKE FLOATING IN THE AIR, WE DON'T THINK OF CLOUD STORAGE AS REAL SERVERS THAT ACTUALLY EXIST, THAT HAVE AN ENERGY EXPENDITURE.

AND I THINK OFF OF THAT, CONTENT MODERATION, THERE IS A HUMAN LABOR COST TO US MINDLESSLY SCROLLING ON TIKTOK AND THAT IS SO FASCINATING TO ME, THAT WE DO THIS THING THAT GETS PRETRADE AS BEING WITHOUT THOUGHT AND REALLY THERE'S SOMEONE SITTING BEHIND THE SCREEN HAVING TO DO THIS TERRIBLE LABOR SO THAT WE CAN DO THIS.

AND I THINK, IF THERE IS ONE SOCIAL MESSAGE OF THE PLAY WHICH I DON'T REALLY LOVE, IN AT LEAST MY WORK SO MUCH, I THINK IT IS JUST TRYING TO GET PEOPLE TO THINK A LITTLE BIT DEEPER ABOUT WHAT MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR THEM TO BE ON THEIR PHONES.

>> HEARS THE CONSTANT QUESTION YOU GET FROM ANYBODY ON A BROADWAY SHOW, IS IT HARDER OR EASIER FOR YOU TO REPEAT SUCH A DYNAMIC -- IT IS A HARD ROLE TO PLAY.

AND TO DO IT EVERY NIGHT.

HOW DO YOU DO THAT?>> THERE IS FREEDOM IN THE STRUCTURE WE HAVE BUILT.

WE HAVE BUILT SOMETHING AND WHEN PEOPLE ASK, HOW DO YOU KEEP IT FRESH?

A LOT OF IT IS THAT WE ARE STILL FIGURING IT OUT, EVEN THOUGH WE PERFORMED THIS OFF- BROADWAY TWICE, ON BROADWAY WE ARE STILL WORKING TO UNCOVER THE TRUTH OF WHAT THESE CHARACTERS ARE LIVING THROUGH.

AND A LOT OF IT DOESN'T COME FROM EFFORT BUT FROM RELEASE SORT OF, JUST RELEASING INTO THE STORY.

>> DO YOU NOTICE A DIFFERENCE IN THEIR PERFORMANCE EACH NIGHT?>> I DO, BUT ALSO THERE IS SUCH A SOLID FOUNDATION, I THINK THE BEAUTY WITH LIVE THEATER, THE PROCESS OF PRODUCING A PLAY IS ALL ABOUT A RELEASING AND GIVING IT AWAY.

SO THE THEME THAT CHANGES EVERY NIGHT IS THE AUDIENCE AND SOMETIMES IT IS A VERY LAUGHABLE, VOCAL AUDIENCE AND THAT CHANGES THE TEXTURE OF THE PLAY AND VERY INTERESTING WAYS.

NOBODY GETS TO WATCH IT THE WAY THAT I DO, WHICH IS LIKE WITH A FINE TOOTH COMB AND I THINK THAT MAKES ME ENJOY IT MORE WHEN I DO GET TO SEE IT BECAUSE I'M LIKE THEY FOUND THIS MINUTE MOMENT THAT NOBODY ELSE IS GOING TO NOTICE BUT THAT HAS NEVER BEEN THERE BEFORE.

THIS ONE GESTURE, THIS ONE PUSHING THE HAIR BEHIND THE EAR THAT CHANGES THE DYNAMIC OF THE SCENE FOR ME, IT IS VERY EXCITING.>> I LOVE HOW YOU HAVE WOVEN COMEDY THROUGHOUT AS WELL, I'M JUST WONDERING, WHILE YOU'RE SITTING ON STAGE AND HEARING THE AUDIENCE LAUGH AT TIMES, I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY DESCRIBE THIS AS A COMEDY BUT THE WRITING ITSELF, HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO GET IT TO THIS POINT?>> I STARTED WRITING IT IN 2018, SO IT HAS BEEN A MINUTE.

THE COMEDY, I JUST CAN'T REALLY ENGAGE WITH ANYTHING THAT TAKES ITSELF HOLISTICALLY SERIOUSLY, IT WAS ACCIDENTAL, I WOULD PUT IT RIGHT BACK ON THESE GUYS IF THEY FOUND A LOT OF COMEDIC MOMENTS.

AND I THINK THERE'S THIS INTERESTING PSYCHOLOGICAL THING THAT HAPPENS, ONCE PEOPLE START LAUGHING, THEY KIND OF DON'T STOP.

>> WHAT DOES IT SAY FOR THE FUTURE OF THEATER, ESPECIALLY BROADWAY THEATER TO HAVE SUCH A YOUNG ENSEMBLE AND IT'S NOT JUST THE WRITING, THE DIRECTING, THE PRODUCERS, TOO.

IT HAS THIS VERY FRESH, NEXT- GENERATION VIBE TO IT.>> IT IS REALLY EXCITING, IT FEELS LIKE WE ARE REPRESENTING A COMMUNITY THAT IS RAPIDLY ASCENDING FROM DOWNTOWN AND IT IS A REAL HONOR TO BE IN THIS POSITION, REPRESENTING THEM AND REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE THAT WE CAME UP AROUND.

AND THE MOST EXCITING NEWNESS HAS TO DO WITH THE AUDIENCE AND WE HAVE BEEN A DISPROPORTIONATE HIT AMONGST YOUNGER PEOPLE, WE HAVE TALKED TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, THIS WAS THE FIRST PLAY THEY HAVE SEEN IN NEW YORK AND THAT IS THE MOST GRATIFYING THING TO ME AS A WRITER, TO GET YOUNG PEOPLE INTO C THEATER.>> AND IT RESONATES WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE OF ALL AGES.

AND PETER, YOU LAST APPEARED ON BROADWAY 20 YEARS AGO, AND THERE IS A CONNECTION HERE BECAUSE IN THE FILM VERSION, 12 ANGRY MEN, JACLYN AND YOUR GRANDFATHER START -- STARRED.

WHAT HAS THIS EXPERIENCE BEEN LIKE FOR YOU AND THE RELATIONSHIP THAT HAS COME OUT OF IT?

>> WE ARE BESTIES.

IT HAS BEEN A PRIVILEGED BUT REALLY A JOY TO GET TO WORK WITH SOMEBODY AS SKILLED AND KIND AS PETER AND IT HAS JUST BEEN FUN, WE REALLY LIKE EACH OTHER.>> IT HAS BEEN EASY, AND I HAVE SEEN THIS 1 MILLION TIMES, IT IS ALWAYS A DIFFERENT THRUST FROM THE VERY BEGINNING AND I LOVE SEEING HOW IT TAKES HER THROUGH THE ENTIRE 80 MINUTES, IT'S JUST WHAT YOU WANT.>> IT IS FANTASTIC, THE CHEMISTRY BETWEEN THE TWO OF YOU, THE DIALOGUE, HANGING ONTO EVERY SINGLE WORD.

I KNOW WE WILL SEE A LOT MORE OF YOU IN THE FUTURE, PERHAPS SPECIFICALLY FOR THIS ROLE, I KNOW THE PLAY HAS BEEN EXTENDED THROUGH THE END OF OCTOBER, SO CONGRATULATIONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

I LOVED THAT SHOW.

THIS WEEK, TAYLOR SWIFT WRAPPED UP A RECORD-BREAKING RUN OF SHOWS IN LONDON AND AMONG HER SURPRISE GUESTS WAS PRODUCER EXTRAORDINAIRE, JACK ANTINOCH, HE IS AN AMAZING MUSICIAN IN HIS OWN RIGHT, THEY ARE TOURING WITH THEIR SELF-TITLED ALBUM.

HERE IS A SNEAK PEEK OF THAT CONVERSATION.>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I HAVE A LOT TO ASK YOU BUT I DO WANT TO START BY YOUR APPEARANCE ON THIS STAGE WITH TAYLOR SWIFT.

WHICH WAS PRETTY AMAZING, DID YOU EXPECT IT, WHAT WAS IT LIKE?>> THE LEAST NERVOUS I AM, THE MORE SURREAL IT GETS, I WOULD BE MORE NERVOUS TALKING TO YOU THAN IN FRONT OF THAT MANY PEOPLE.

>> YOU SEEM TO BE A SERIOUSLY COOL GUY, NOT JUST WITH YOUR MUSIC BUT WHO YOU PRODUCE, YOU HAVE PRODUCED A LOT OF POWERFUL WOMEN AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU STARTED BY IDENTIFYING WOMEN OR WHETHER IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THAT CAME TO YOU, HOW DID IT START WITH TAYLOR SWIFT FOR INSTANCE?>> THAT STARTED AS ORGANIC AS POSSIBLE, WE MET OUTSIDE OF ANYTHING IN THE INDUSTRY, WE WERE FRIENDS, PLAYING MUSIC THAT WE LIKED, ONE THING LED TO ANOTHER.>> YOU HAVE WON A LOT OF GRAMMIES AND PARTICULARLY YOU HAVE WON PRODUCER OF THE YEAR FOR THE LAST THREE YEARS.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER YOU CAN, BUT CAN YOU SAY WHAT IS MORE SATISFYING, WHAT YOU LIKE BETTER, IS IT PRODUCING OR BEING A MUSICIAN, IS IT BEING A PERFORMER OR DOING YOUR OWN STUFF?>> I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ANY OF THEM WITHOUT EACH OTHER SO I DON'T KNOW.

I KNOW FOR OTHER PEOPLE THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT, I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS THAT LOVE BEING IN THE STUDIO AND DESPISE BEING ON THE ROAD OR SOME PEOPLE GET EXHAUSTED BY THE STUDIO.

THEY ARE VERY MUCH ONE THING TO ME, I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN THE STUDIO AND NOT THOUGHT ABOUT BEING LIFE LIVE.-->> YOU SEEM QUITE SHY IN YOUR INTERACTIONS AND MAYBE YOU ARE NOT, BUT YOU HAVE ASSOCIATED YOURSELF BOTH IN YOUR PROFESSIONAL LIFE AND IN YOUR PERSONAL LIFE, WITH WHAT I SAID EARLIER, SOME VERY STRONG PROMINENT WOMEN, WOMEN WHO ARE OF SUBSTANCE, WHETHER IT IS THE MUSICIANS, WHETHER IT IS PEOPLE YOU HAVE DATED LIKE SCARLETT JOHANSSON, AND I'M STILL WAITING TO SEE THE FILM SUBSTANCE THAT IS NOT CURRENTLY OUT, I'M WAITING TO SEE IT.

BUT YOU FEEL TOTALLY SECURE WITH STRONG AND SUCCESSFUL WOMEN?>> I THINK SO.

I HAVE ALWAYS FELT VERY COMFORTABLE AROUND PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THEMSELVES AND THAT IS USUALLY PEOPLE WHO END UP HAVING SOME POWER BECAUSE THAT IS A NICE TRAIT.

BUT I LIKE PEOPLE WHO KNOW WHAT THEY WANT TO DO AND JUST WANT TO GO FIND IT AND THEN WE CAN HAVE OUR BIG CRISIS OF THE DAY AND WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE FOR LUNCH, NOT ABOUT WHAT WE WANT TO SAY TO THE WORLD.>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU DID SAY TO THE WORLD WAS THE GETAWAY CAR, YOU HAVE THAT SONG THAT WENT VIRAL AND IT WAS PART OF THE JOINT APPEARANCE THE OTHER NIGHT AND I'M JUST GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF IT.>> [MUSIC] I'M IN A GETAWAY CAR, AND EAR IN THE MOTEL BAR.

>> YEAH, I'M IN THE GETAWAY CAR, LEFT YOU IN THE MOTEL BAR, TOOK THE MONEY IN THE BAG AND I STOLE THE KEY, THAT WAS THE LAST TIME YOU EVER SAW ME.>> YOU WERE SUPER ENERGETIC IN THAT CLIP.

IT'S THE STORY BEHIND THE STORY, RIGHT?>> I THINK THE REASON THAT CLIP HAS SUCH A BIG LIGHT, BECAUSE EVERYBODY WANTS TO TELL THE STORY OF THE STUDIO AND OFTEN THE STORY IS SENSATIONALIZED, YOU KNOW, CANDLES, THAT IS NOT REALLY TRUE, THE STUDIO IS AN INTERESTING PLACE.

BUT, IT IS A PLACE THAT YOU PUT YOURSELF IN AND ALMOST LIKE FISHING, YOU ARE WAITING TO CATCH SOMETHING, YOU ARE TRYING ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS.

IT IS ONE OF THE FEW VIDEOS I HAVE EVER SEEN THAT REALLY CAPTURE THE MOMENT WHEN TWO PEOPLE GET THE IDEA FOR A THING, I DON'T KNOW WHY SHE WAS RECORDING THAT, BUT SHE WAS.

IT WAS THE ONLY VIDEO I HAVE BEEN A PART OF WHERE THAT WAS REALLY THE MOMENT, THAT WAS IT AND IT SPEAKS TO THAT ONE PLUS ONE EQUALING 1 BILLION.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS THAT YOU GET IN A SONG.

>> I'M GOING TO PLAY ANOTHER ONE, WHICH IS ON YOUR NEW ALBUM, YOU ARE KIND OF JOKING, WITH NEW JERSEY LYRICS, WE ARE GOING TO PLAY THAT.>> [MUSIC] >> IT'S REALLY DANCEABLE BUT, WHAT IS POP MUSIC BORDER?>> WELL, THAT SONG STARTED AS ME TRYING TO TAKE A PIECE OF THE WORLD -- >> DO YOU GET THAT CRITICISM?

>> NOT IN THAT WAY BUT I WANTED TO CREATE ADVERSE -- A VERSE ABOUT ALL THE WAYS YOU COULD TAKE NEW JERSEY OUT OF ME, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE AN ABSURD STATEMENT, UNRIVALED REPORTER THAT SPEAKS TO ALL HYPOCRISY OF BEING A WRITER.

MY VERSION OF WRITING, THERE'S NO FACT CHECKING AND IT SHOULDN'T BE, IT IS WHATEVER I FEEL AND WHENEVER I FEEL IT, SOME STORIES ARE BRUTALLY HONEST AND OTHERS ARE UTTER DISTORTION.

I THINK I WAS TAKING IT OUT OF THE IDEA THAT PEOPLE FEEL LIKE I KEEP POPPING UP IN ALL THESE PLACES.>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.>> FINALLY, LOVE AND LOSS KNOW NO BOUNDS, ONE OF THE PENGUIN POWER COUPLES PASSED AWAY, FROM THE MOMENT THEY MET AT THE SYDNEY AQUARIUM, THEY ONLY HAD EYES FOR EACH OTHER, NURTURING TWO YOUNG CHICKS AND RECENTLY CELEBRATING THEIR SIX YEAR ANNIVERSARY.

UPON SEEING HIS SOULMATE'S LIFELESS BODY, MAGIC BROKE INTO SONG AND THE REST OF THE COLONY JOINED HIM.

THE LEGACY OF THEIR ICONIC RELATIONSHIP LIVES ON.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT, IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON THE SHOW, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER, PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR .

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR & CO" ON PBS, JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.