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> HELLO, EVERYONE.
COMPANY.'ME TO 'AMANPOUR AND HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
> TROPICAL STORM IDA TEARS ACROSS AMERICA'S SOUTHERN STATES.
WE'RE ON THE GROUND IN LOUISIANA AND I SPEAK TO THE MAYOR OF JACKSON, MISSISSIPPI.
> THEN THE CHAOTIC EVACUATION OF AFGHANISTAN NEARS ITS HAND.
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE REFUGEES?
HELPING AFGHANS.
> PLUS -- ♪♪♪
> STRIKING A DEFIANT NOTE.
MY CONVERSATION WITH THE FOUNDER AND A STUDENT OF THE AFGHANISTAN NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF MUSIC.
♪♪♪
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THANK YOU.
EVERYONE.ME TO THE PROGRAM I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORE AMANPOUR.
WHO WILL BE BACK TOMORROW.
THE LIGHTS ARE OUT IN NEW ORLEANS.
POWER IS DOWN ACROSS THE ENTIRE CITY AND SWATHS OF LOUISIANA IN THE WAKE OF HURRICANE IDA, WHICH LEFT A TRAIL OF DEVASTATION.
IDA HIT LOUISIANA AT A TIME WHEN COVID CASES ARE SURGING.
IN A CRUEL COINCIDENCE, THE STATE WAS STRUCK ON THE 16th ANNIVERSARY OF HURRICANE KATRINA.
IDA HAS BEEN DOWNGRADED TO A TROPICAL STORM AS IT CONTINUES ITS CHARGE ACROSS THE UNITED NAD YEAH GIVES US A LOOK AT SOME OF THE DAMAGE ON THE GROUND.
Reporter: YOU CAN SEE THE DESTRUCTION BEHIND ME.
LET'S TAKE A WALK AS WE GO DOWN THIS STREET, WHICH IS NORMALLY A VERY NICE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT IT'S BEEN TRASHED BY ALL OF THESE TREES.
AND THIS HERE, YOU CAN SEE THIS LAMP HERE THAT'S SLANTED OVER ON TOP OF THIS CAR.
YOU CAN ALSO SEE THOSE POWER LINES.
THIS IS THE REASON WHY WE HAVE MORE THAN A MILLION PEOPLE WITHOUT POWER ALL ACROSS LOUISIANA.S ALSO WHY MANY OF THL REMAIN WITHOUT POWER FOR AT LEAST A COUPLE OF DAYS, IF NOT WEEKS.
BECAUSE THERE IS AN ORDER OF HOW THEY HAVE TO DO THINGS.
FIRST YOU HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE STORM TO PASS.
WE HAVE MADE IT TO THAT MARK.
NOW DAY TWO IS GOING OUT AND ASSESSING THE DAMAGE.
THEN YOU HAVE TO CLEAR THE WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO MOVE THESE POWER LINES, MOVE THIS CAR OUT OF THE WAY, MOVE THESE BIG TREES THAT ARE ON THE GROUND?
DEVASTATING IMAGES.
AND AS IT MOVED INLAND TODAY, IDA BROUGHT DOWN TREES AND POWER LINES ACROSS MISSISSIPPI.
JOINING ME NOW IS THE MAYOR OF THE STATE CAPITAL.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TAKING TIME-OUT OF A VERY BUSY DAY FOR YOU.
I KNOW YOU HAVE DECLARED A STATE OF EMERGENCY THERE.
WHAT IS THE SITUATION ON THE GROUND IN JACKSON?
WELL, FIRST AND FOREMOST, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, AND THANK YOU FOR INQUIRING ABOUT THE STATUS OF MY CITY.
PRESENTLY, WE HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING CONSISTENT RAIN.
THE WIND HAS INCREASED OVER THE LAST FEW HOURS AND WE HAVE RESIDENTS WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED POWER OUTRAGES SPORADICALLY ACROSS THE CITY.
THERE ARE SOME AREAS WHERE THERE ARE DOWNED TREE LIMBS AND DOWNED POWER LINES.
BUT AS IT STANDS AT THIS PRESENT MOMENT, WE HAVE SEEN ANY CATASTROPHIC EVENTS.
THE STORM HAS BEEN DOWNGRADED BUT NO ONE SHOULD BE FOOLED BY ITS RATH AND SOME OF THE DAMAGE THAT IT COULD ENSUE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WIND GUSTS 70 TO 90 MILES AN HOUR.
WHAT ARE YOU MOST CONCERNED ABOUT, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SEE THE IMAGES OUT OF NEW ORLEANS, WHICH IS A CITY THAT IS DARK RIGHT NOW?
WELL, I WANT OUR RESIDENTS TO BE AWARE THAT A TROPICAL STORM CAN STILL ADMINISTER PRETTY SEVERE DAMAGE TO A CITY.
WE'RE STILL CONCERNED ABOUT FLOODING TAKING PLACE WITHIN OUR CITY, FAMILIARLY AROUND THE FLOOD PRONE AREAS.
AND WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT POTENTIAL DEBRIS THAT MAY BE ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE HIGH WINDS.
WE'RE ADVISING OUR RESIDENTS THEY SHOULD NOT GO INTO STANDING WATER.
DON'T WALK, SWIM OR DRIVE IN THAT STANDING WATER.
AND WE'RE ASKING THAT ANY RESIDENT THAT LIVES IN A FLOOD PRONE AREA, THAT THEY SEEK HIGHER GROUND.
THAT HAS BEEN OUR ADVICE OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF DAYS.
WE HAVE BEEN ISSUING SANDBAGS SINCE YESTERDAY MORNING, AND WE CONTINUE TO HAVE OUR PUBLIC WORKS, OUR POLICE DEPARTMENT AND OUR FIRE DEPARTMENTS OUT NOT ONLY ASSESSING DANGER BUT TRYING TO MITIGATE THE THREATS.
AS OF NOW, THOUGH, NO SIGNS OF MAJOR POWER OUTRAGES, CORRECT?
WELL, WE HAVE -- WE HAVE SPARSE POWER OUTRAGES ACROSS THE CITY.
BUT AS IT STANDS PRESENTLY, THE MAJORITY OF OUR RESIDENTS STILL HAVE POWER.
WE KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT OUT OF THE WOODS YET, AND, SO, WE'RE MAINTAINING THE DISCIPLINE THAT WE HAVE ASKED OUR RESIDENTS TO MAINTAIN THROUGHOUT THIS STORM EVENT.
OKAY.
WE ARE EXPECTING TO HEAR FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN ON STORM IDA.
AND IN TALKING ABOUT SOME OF THE AFTERMATH THERE, THE IMAGES WE HAVE SEEN ARE HORRIFIC IN PARTS OF LOUISIANA.
I KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE WHITE HOUSE AS WELL.
WHAT HAS THAT CONVERSATION BEEN LIKE?
WHAT RESOURCES ARE YOU ASKING FOR, IF ANY?
WELL, I'M FORTUNATE TO BE IB INVITED TO A POLL THAT WILL TAKE PLACE SHORTLY.
TO DATE, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT CONVERSATION WILL ENTAIL, BUT I WANT TO BE SUPPORTIVE AND CONTINUE TO ASK FOR RESOURCES THAT HELP SUPPORT NOT ONLY OUR RESIDENTS IN THE MIDST OF THIS STORM BUT MAKE CERTAIN THAT WE BUILD OURSELVES TO BE MORE RESILIENT GOING FORWARD.
AS IT HAS BEEN WELL DOCUMENTED, THE CITY OF JACKSON HAS A VERY FRAGILE INFRASTRUCTURE, PARTICULAR AS IT PERTAINS TO OUR WATER INFRASTRUCTURE.
SO, YOU KNOW, FORTUNATELY WE HAVE NOT EXPERIENCED ANY DEVASTATING IMPACT TO THAT INFRASTRUCTURE THUS FAR.
BUT IT IS ALWAYS A CRITICAL -- WE'RE ALWAYS IN A CRITICAL STATE AS IT PERTAINS TO OUR WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM. I WAS GOINT INFRASTRUCTURE BECAUSE I KNOW THAT PIPES THROUGHOUT THE CITY FROZE DURING A WINTER STORM RECENTLY, AND YOU ARE CONCERNED ABOUT THE WATER SUPPLY NOW.
WHAT IS YOUR MESSAGE TO RESIDENTS?
SHOULD THEY BE CONSERVING THAT WATER NOW?
WELL, WE HAVE NOT -- WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY INFORMATION OF WATER PRESSURE BEING DECREASED AT THIS TIME.
WE HAVE ASKED OUR RESIDENTS TO STORE UP NOT ONLY POTABLE, BUT NONPORTABLE WATER IN ANTICIPATION OF THIS STORM.
THUS FAR, OUR INFRASTRUCTURE IS HOLDING UP, BUT THAT CAN CHANGE AT A MOMENT'S NOTICE.
IF THAT TAKES PLACE, THEN AS OUR PUBLIC WORKS CREWS ARE OUT, NOT ONLY WILL THEY BE MAKING NECESSARY REPAIRS, BUT WE WILL LOOK AT NECESSARY DISTRIBUTION EFFORTS IF NECESSARY.
AND THIS CRISIS HAPPENING AS THE COUNTRY CONTINUES TO BATTLE WITH COVID AND YOUR STATE IS INCLUDED IN THAT BATTLE.
WHAT IS THE HOSPITAL SITUATION LIKE THERE RIGHT NOW GIVEN THIS STORM?
ARE YOU PREPARED FOR PATIENTS THAT MAY COME AND CITIZENS THAT MAY COME IN THE AFTERMATH OF THIS STORM AS WELL AS THOSE THAT ARE NOW DEALING WITH COVID?
WELL, NO PUN INTENDED.
WHAT THIS CREATES IS A PERFECT STORM OF EVENTS TAKING PLACE.
YOU KNOW, HAVING OUR HOSPITALIZATION RATE ALREADY AT ITS CRITICAL LEVELS, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.
WE'RE CONTINUING TO MAINTAIN COMMUNICATION WITH NOT ONLY OUR COUNTY BUT STATE ADMINISTRATORS AND HOPING THAT THEY PROVIDE INFORMATION AND RELIEF TO OUR RESIDENTS.
YOU KNOW, WE COULD ILL AFFORD TO HAVE A CATASTROPHIC EVENT THAT LEADS TO MORE CALLS OR MORE INDIVIDUALS BEING TAKEN TO THE HOSPITAL.T THIS IS AN AREA OF C, GREAT CONCERN FOR US IN THE CITY.
JACKSON NOT ONLY SERVICES THE RESIDENTS OF OUR OWN CITY, WE ARE THE CAPITAL OF HEALTH CARE FOR THE CENTRAL MISSISSIPPI DISTRICT.
AND, SO, WE'RE PRAYING FOR THE SAFETY AND PRAYING THAT RESIDENTS IN SURROUNDING AREAS ADHERE TO THE ADVICE THAT HAS BEEN PROVIDED TO THEM SO THAT WE DON'T SEE UNNECESSARY INJURY.
WE ARE PRAYING FOR YOU AS WELL, MAYOR.
I HEARD THE SIRENS BEHIND YOU, REMINDING US ONCE AGAIN THAT YOU ARE IN A STATE OF EMERGENCY.
BEST OF LUCK TO YOU AND YOUR RESIDENTS THERE.
WE WILL CONTINUE TO BE FOLLOWING THIS STORY AND CHECK IN WITH YOU LATER.THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOIG US.
THANK YOU.
> WELL, WHILE THE U.S. MOUNTS AN EFFORT TO CONTROL THE DAMAGE AT HOME, IN AFGHANISTAN THE CHAOS CONTINUES.
AS MANY AS FIVE ROCKETS WERE FIRED AT KABUL AIRPORT JUST THIS MORNING.WHAT YOU ARE SEEING NOWE CAR REPORTEDLY USED AS A PLATFORM FOR THOSE ROCKETS.
THEY WERE INTERCEPTED BY A U.S.
DEFENSE SYSTEM.
MEANTIME, CNN HAS BEEN TOLD THAT TEN MEMBERS OF ONE FAMILY, MOSTLY CHILDREN, WERE KILLED IN A U.S. DRONE STRIKE THAT TARGETED A SUSPECTED ISIS-K SUICIDE BOMBER.
ALL THIS SETS THE SCENE.
JOINING ME NOW IS MIKE ROGERS, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN AND CHAIRMAN OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH, MIKE, FOR JOINING US.
WE APPRECIATE IT.
LET ME GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON WHAT'S CONCERNING YOU MOST IN THESE FINAL HOURS AS THE U.S.
EVACUATES AND MEETS THAT AUGUST 31st DEADLINE.
WELL, IT REALLY, TODAY, IT'S TWO THINGS.
ONE IS THE TERRORIST ATTACKS TARGET NOT JUST AMERICANS BUT OUR WESTERN ALLIES AND OTHER AFGHANS WHO WERE COOPERATIVE WITH THE WEST.
AND THEN THE SECOND PART OF THAT IS THERE IS THIS UNBELIEVABLE OUTSIDE OF GOVERNMENT EFFORT TO TRY TO GET THESE PEOPLE RESCUED AND OUT.
THESE ARE PEOPLE ON TALIBAN KILL LISTS, YOU KNOW, WHO HAVE THEIR FAMILIES THREATENED, TO HAVE THEIR DAUGHTERS IN FORCED MARRIAGES AND OTHER THINGS.
THERE IS THIS MAD SCRAMBLE.
I HAVE PRETTY GOOD ACUITY INTO MANY OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS.
MOST FORMER GOVERNMENT FOLKS, SPECIAL INTELLIGENCE, OTHERS, AND ON THEIR OWN WITH THEIR OWN FINANCES, I KNOW MY WIFE IS HEAVILY INVOLVED IN AS WELL, TRYING TO GET THESE PEOPLE TO SAFETY AS BEST THEY CAN AND OUT OF THE COUNTRY.
SO BOTH OF THOSE THINGS ARE THE THINGS I WORRY ABOUT TODAY.
I JUST WANT TO TIP MY HAT TO THE BRITS AND THE FRENCH WHO HAVE BEEN EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD ABOUT TRYING TO GET PEOPLE WHO WORKED WITH THEM OUT AND PEOPLE THAT THEY BELIEVE ARE HIGH VALUE INDIVIDUALS WHO NEED TO BE CANDIDLY RESCUED FROM THE TALIBAN WRATH THAT WE KNOW IS COMING.
YEAH.
AND I'LL BE SPEAKING WITH THE HEAD OF AN ORGANIZATION HELPING TO RESETTLE THOSE REFUGEES RIGHT AFTER OUR CONVERSATION.
BUT FROM A MILITARY AND A TERRORISM STANDPOINT, WE MENTIONED THOSE FIVE ROCKETS THAT WERE FIRED AT THE KABUL AIRPORT TODAY.
I'M WONDERING, DOES IT DIMINISH U.S. FOOTPRINT ON THE GROUND THERE IMPACT THE CALIBER OF INTELLIGENCE THAT WE'RE ABLE TO GATHER IN THESE REMAINING HOURING?
ABSOLUTELY.
HERE'S WHAT HAPPENED OVER TIME THAT SHRUNK OUR ABILITY TO COLLECT INTELLIGENCE.
THE U.S. AND THE NATO EFFORTS ABANDONED THE EASTERN PROVINCES FOR THAT BIG, ROBUST INTELLIGENCE COLLECTION PLATFORMS THAT WE HAD GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE PLACES DIDN'T GET INFILTRATED BY AL-QAEDA OR, YOU KNOW, TALIBAN OR OTHERS.
WELL, WHEN THAT PULL-DOWN BEGAN TO HAPPEN, THEY LOST SOME BITS OF INTELLIGENCE, KEY PIECES OF INTELLIGENCE ALONG THE WAY.
SO THE CLOSER IT KIND OF CONTRACTED TO THE CITIES IN THE BIGGER PROVINCES AND KABUL, THE WORSE THE INTELLIGENCE GOT.
SO ONCE YOU PULLED THIS PLUG, YOU KNOW, THE NOTION THAT WE HAVE THIS ROBUST INTELLIGENCE NETWORK THAT GIVE US REAL-TIME ACTIONABLE INTELLIGENCE DOESN'T JIVE WITH REALITY.
SO THAT WORRIES ME A LOT.
YOU ARE ALREADY SEEING THIS PEA TRY DISH OF TERRORISM GROWING FROM AL-QAEDA TO OTHER TERRORIST GROUPS, ISIS.
AND NOT JUST ISIS-K, BUT THAT ISISISM EXTREMIST MENTALITY.
A LOT OF PEOPLE ABANDONED AL-QAEDA WHEN THEY SAW ISIS DOING WELL IN SYRIA.
YOU WILL SEE THAT CROSSING BACK AND FORTH.
DESPITE WHAT YOU HEAR, THEY HAVE MORE IN COMMON WITH THEIR EXTREMIST WAYS THAN THEY DO THE WEST.
SO THERE WILL BE CHANGES IN WAYS.
AND UNFORTUNATELY COLLATERAL SEEMS TO BE JUST A REALITY OF WAR, RIGHT?
AND EVEN THOUGH THE U.S. TRIES TO AVOID INJURING, HARMING, KILLING INNOCENT CIVILIANS, I DO WANT TO GET YOUR RESPONSE TO THE REPORTS THAT CNN IS HEARING ABOUT TEN CIVILIANS WHO WERE KILLED IN THIS DRONE STRIKE.
OBVIOUSLY THE TARGET A CAR PACKED WITH BOMBS AND EXPLOSIVES HEADED FOR THE KABUL AIRPORT THAT HAD BEEN SENT AND ORCHESTRATED BY ISIS-K.
THERE ARE UPWARDS OF 10 CIVILIANS, 7 OF WHICH CHILDREN.
THEY ARE CLAIMING THEY ARE NOT AFFILIATED WITH ISIS-K.
IS THAT JUST A MISTAKE OR UNFORTUNATE CHAIN OF EVENTS IN COMBAT.
SO LET ME DO A COUPLE OF THINGS, AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY.
I DID EVERY SINGLE AFTER ACTION REPORT AS CHAIRMAN OF THE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE ON AIR STRIKES THAT TARGETED TERRORIST TARGETS ACROSS THAT REGION.
WHAT SOMETIMES WAS REPORTED I KNOW FOR A FACT WAS COMPLETELY INACCURATE ABOUT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.SO MY FIRST ANSWER TI WILL BE SKEPTICAL OF THAT LEVEL OF CIVILIAN DEATH.
THAT SERVES THE PURPOSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO MAY OR MAY NOT HAVE PUT CHILDREN IN THERE.
SO I THINK A LITTLE MORE NEEDS TO BE FLUSHED OUT ON THAT.
NUMBER TWO, WE ARE SEEING THE TALIBAN USE WOMEN AND CHILDREN AS SHIELDS AS THEY'RE WORKING UP TO THE PAN GEAR REGION OF THE COUNTRY WHERE THAT OLD NORTHERN ALLIANCE IS KIND OF FORMING.
SO WE'RE SEEING THEM USE THAT VERY TACTIC IN OTHER PLACES.
THAT'S THE TALIBAN, BY THE WAY, AND THIS MAY BE ISIS.
THEY ALL UNDERSTAND THAT CIVILIANS WILL MAKE THE UNITED STATES WAVE OFF IN MOST CASES.
I WOULD -- AND THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED HERE AS WELL.
BUT THE FACT THAT THERE WERE EXPLOSIVES HEADED TO KILL AMERICANS MAY HAVE OUTWEIGHED ANY RISK.
BUT, AGAIN, THE FIRST QUESTION I HAVE IS I'M NOT SURE I BELIEVE THE NUMBERS UNTIL THEY'RE CONFIRMED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT OR ONE OF OUR WESTERN ALLIES, IF THAT MANY CIVILIANS -- IF ANY AT ALL CANDIDLY WERE KILLED IN THAT BLAST.
YEAH.
THEY NOTED THERE WERE REPORTS OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES THAT WOULDN'T GO INTO ANY GREATER DETAIL.
CAN I JUST GET YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE CURRENT SITUATION OF, FOR LACK OF A BETTER PHRASE, STRANGE BEDFELLOWS.
NOW THE U.S. HAVING TO WORK WITH THE TALIBAN NOW.
ONE REPORTER LAST WEEK, I THOUGHT, PEGGED IT WELL, COMPARING IT TO THE TSA, THE TALIBAN BEING AMERICA'S TSA AT KABUL AIRPORT.
CAN WE TRUST THEM?
AND IF WE CAN'T, IS THIS SORT OF AN ACT OF DESPERATION ON OUR PARTS?
I MEAN, IT DOES SEEM TO BE QUITE A STRANGE PREDICAMENT FOR THE U.S. TO BE IN.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE PUT OURSELVES IN THIS PREDICAMENT.
WE HAD OPPORTUNITIES NOT TO HAVE THIS HAPPEN.
YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER SOMETHING.
WE WERE STILL TREATING THE TALIBAN AS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION WEEKS BEFORE THIS AND MONTHS IN CERTAIN AIR STRIKES THAT THE AFGHAN ARMY THAT WE WOULD SUPPORT, THE UNITED STATES AND NATO WOULD SUPPORT AGAINST TALIBAN TARGETS BECAUSE THEY WERE STILL LISTED AS TERRORISTS.
OVERNIGHT, WE DECIDED THEY'RE A LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT WITH A 75,000 PERSON ARMY THAT'S WELL-TRAINED AND DISCIPLINED.
NONE OF THOSE THINGS ARE TRUE, NONE OF THEM.
REMEMBER, THE REASON THE TALIBAN CAME OUT AND SAID, WOMEN, YOU NEED TO STAY HOME.
NOT BECAUSE WE WON'T LET YOU GO BACK TO WORK AT SOME POINT, BUT OUR SOLDIERS NEED TO UNDERSTAND HOW TO TREAT WOMEN FIRST.
MEANING, THEY CAN'T CONTROL ALL OF THE ELEMENTS.
AND IT IS PRETTY DIVERSE.
YOUR LEVELS OF EXTREMISM ARE ALL OVER THE MAP.
MOST OF THEM CERTAINLY EXTREME OVER TO THE POINT WHERE WE WOULD ALL CALL THEM TERRORISM.
SO THESE ARE THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE SAID, OKAY, THE PEOPLE WHO ARE STONING WOMEN, WHO ARE TELLING WOMEN THEY CAN'T GO PAST THE SIXTH GRADE IN AN EDUCATION, THAT THEY HAVE TO STAY HOME, THEY CAN'T WORK AND ARE COMMITTING ATROCITIES.
BY THE WAY, THEY'RE RAIDING HOUSES IN KABUL NOW FOR PEOPLE AND DOING SUMMARY EXECUTIONS.
ALL OF THAT WE KNOW IS HAPPENING AND SOMEHOW WE DECIDED THEY'RE A LEGITIMATE GOVERNMENT AND THEY WANT INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION SO WE TRUST THEM.
WOULD YOU PUT YOUR SON AND DAUGHTER ON A FENCE LINE TRUSTING A TALL BAN SOLDIER?
NO RATIONAL PERSON WOULD SAY YES.
THIS IS A DISASTER OF EPIC PROPORTION.
AGAIN, THERE WILL BE REAL LIVES LOST IN THIS.
CERTAINLY OUR U.S. MARINES.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
BUT THINK OF ALL THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TERRIFIED THAT ONCE THE WEST HAS LEFT THAT ALL OF THESE PEOPLE THAT WE PROMISED THAT WE WOULD BE THERE FOR ARE STANDING HATRED AND TERRORISM.
THIS IS AS BAD AS AN EVENT AS WE COULD POSSIBLY, I THINK, WE COULD POSSIBLY SEE RIGHT NOW.
YEAH.
YOU ASKED ME THAT HYPOTHETICAL QUESTION.
THE FIRST THING THAT COMES TO MIND ARE THE FAMILIES, THE PARENTS OF THOSE 13 BRAVE AMERICAN SERVICEMEN AND WOMEN WHOSE LIVES WERE LOST TRYING TO RESCUE AND SAVE OTHERS AND WONDERING IF THEY ARE ASKING THE SAME QUESTION AS WELL.
YOU MENTIONED OUR ALLIES AND GIVING PRAISE TO THEM FOR DOING ALL THAT THEY COULD TO RESCUE AFGHANS AND OTHER CIVILIANS WHO HAD HELPED THEM DURING THESE 20 YEARS.
I WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE ON THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL SCHEDULED TO MEET AND VOTE TODAY ON A RESOLUTION THAT WOULD ESTABLISH A SAFE PASSAGE ZONE TO ALLOW MORE OF THESE AFGHANS TO TRAVEL FREELY IF THEY, IN FACT, THEIR LIVES ARE AT RISK OR IF THEY WERE PART OF THE SIVs AND THE GROUPS OF THOSE WHO HAD HELPED AND ASSISTED NATO MEMBERS.
DO YOU THINK THIS IS A GOOD SOLUTION TO A BAD SITUATION?
IT COULD BE A GOOD SOLUTION TO A BAD SITUATION, BUT YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO ENFORCE IT.
REMEMBER, THE TALIBAN IS ALREADY CAUSING PROBLEMS THROUGH THESE CHECK POINTS.
WE HAVE HEARD STORIES.
AND, AGAIN, THERE ARE GROUPS WORKING TO MOVE PEOPLE INSIDE THE COUNTRY, REALLY SENSITIVE STUFF TRYING TO GET AROUND TALIBAN CHECK POINTS AND WHATNOT.WE KNOW FOR A FACT THEIR DOCUMENTS HAVE BEEN CONFISCATED, THAT THERE HAVE BEEN BEATINGS AND OTHER THINGS TRYING TO DISCOURAGE PEOPLE FROM MOVING.
SO, AGAIN, NOW, WE HAVE MADE IT SO THE TALIBAN GETS A VOTE ON THIS.
SO THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL, THAT'S GREAT.
BUT IF THEY DON'T ENFORCE IT, IF WE DON'T HAVE SOME WAY TO ENFORCE THAT ROUTE AND AN ABILITY FOR THESE PEOPLE AND FAMILIES THAT HAVE RISKED THEIR LIVES IN SUPPORT OF A FREE AFGHANISTAN THAT IS MORE STABLE AND MORE SECURE AND IS NOT A SAFE HAVEN FOR AL-QAEDA, WELL, THEN NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN OTHER THAN THE TALIBAN IS GOING TO INTIMIDATE THEM FROM GETTING TO THESE ROUTES.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT JUST HAPPENED, YOU GOT TO BE A LITTLE BIT SKEPTIC THEY WILL BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
I HOPE THEY DO.
IT WOULD BE GREAT.
I KNOW THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WHO LITERALLY HAVEN'T SLEPT FOR FIVE DAYS TRYING TO MAKE ALL OF THESE THINGS HAPPEN, I THINK THEY WOULD BE APPRECIATIVE OF SOME ROUTE, OF SOME WAY TO GET THESE PEOPLE OUT.
IF HISTORY IS ANY INDICATION, I THINK OF PAST BATTLES, THAT THEY ENDED UP BEING MOOT, RIGHT?
AND SO MANY LOST THEIR LIVES BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE ENFORCEMENT OF OTHER NATIONS AND NATO ALLIES.
IT'S HARD NOT TO POLITICIZE IN THIS ENVIRONMENT HERE IN THE U.S.
AND I WANT TO JUST GET YOUR HONEST ASSESSMENT, NOT AS A REPUBLICAN, NOT AS A DEMOCRAT BUT AS SOMEBODY THAT IS AN EXPERT IN THIS FIELD HOW THIS COULD HAVE BEEN BETTER.
PRESIDENT BIDEN DOES HAVE A POINT THAT THIS WAS A DEAL THAT WAS ARRANGED BY HIS PREDECESSOR.
WE HAVE ALREADY LOST 13 MEMBERS.
HIS ARGUMENT IS THAT MORE COULD HAVE BEEN LOST IF HE TORE THIS DEAL UP.
SO HOW COULD THIS HAVE BEEN HANDLED BETTER?
FIRST OF ALL, MY ADVICE TO PRESIDENT BIDEN IN THE BEGINNING OF THIS IS THE FIRST THING YOU DO IS GO BACK AND SAY, NEW PRESIDENT.ORE TIME.
AND, AGAIN, I'M ONE TO BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE HAD A PRESENCE THERE FOR ENDURING PEACE, BY THE WAY.
BY, OKAY, SAY WE LOST THAT FIGHT AND WE NEEDED TO PULL OUT.
YOU CAN'T PULL THE PLUG LIKE THIS WITHOUT COORDINATION OF YOUR ALLIES.
SO WE GAVE UP THE ONE PLACE THAT I WOULD ARGUE HE NEEDED TO DO THAT WHICH IS BAGRAM AIR BASE.
MEANING, THAT'S WHAT IS KEEPING THE TALIBAN BACK.
AND THERE ARE REPORTS NOW.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THE VALIDITY OF THESE THAT THE TALIBAN ACTUALLY OFFERED TO STAY OUT OF EVERYONE OUT.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S TRUE OR NOT.
IF THAT WAS AND THEY DIDN'T TAKE IT, THAT'S MALFEASANCE.
WE SHOULD HAVE SAID, YEP, THAT'S RIGHT AND BY THE WAY, NOT GIVE UP KABUL UNTIL THE VERY, VERY END.
WE SHOULD HAVE HAD TWO AIRPORTS RUNNING AND THAT WAY YOU COULD HAVE SECURED BOTH AND GOTTENE OT WAS RATIONAL.
THE SECOND PART, WHEN THEY CLOSED KABUL -- EXCUSE ME, THE BAGRAM AIR BASE, THEY DIDN'T TELL ANYONE.
LITERALLY THE GUARDS AT THE BASE TURNED AROUND AND WE WERE GONE.
I MEAN, YOU CAN'T TELL US THAT THEY'RE ALLIES AND THEN HAVE THEM STANDING THERE NOT HAVING A CLUE THAT WE JUST LEFT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.
BY THE WAY, THAT WAS THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL BLOW THAT HIT TROOPS ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNEW THAT MED VAC CAME FROM THERE, LOGISTICS WAS COORDINATED FROM THERE.
ONCE THAT THING WENT, PEOPLE STARTED THINKING, THIS IS BAD.
AND THEN IT JUST DETERIORATED VERY, VERY QUICKLY.
THAT'S THE WAY I WOULD HAVE DONE IT.
WE DON'T REALLY CONTROL THE PERIMETER OF THE AIRPORT.
WE CONTROL INSIDE THE FENCE LINE OF THE AIRPORT.
THAT'S NOT CONTROLLING THE AIRPORT IN KABUL, WHICH IS WHY WE SAW THE UNFORTUNATE TRAGEDY WITH OUR 13 MARINES AND 170 INNOCENT CIVILIANS WERE KILLED.
MIKE ROGERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORK FOR HELPING THOSE IN AFGHANISTAN TRYING TO GET OUT TO FREEDOM AND SAFETY AS WELL AND LET'S HOPE THESE FINAL HOURS ARE SAFE AS THE U.S. FINALLY LEAVES THEIR MISSION THERE AFTER 20 YEARS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
LISTEN, I'M JUST SUPPORTING MY WIFE.
SHE SAYS GO DO THAT.
SHE'S MANNING THE PHONE.
SMART MAN.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
TAKE CARE.
THANK YOU.
> WELL, NOW THE FRENCH GOVERNMENT ANNOUNCED THE END OF ITS KABUL EVACUATION MISSION FRIDAY, HAVING PULLED OUT 3,000 PEOPLE SINCE AUGUST 15th ACCORDING TO THE FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTRY.G THOSE EVACUATED, INTERPRETERS AND PEOPLE THAT HELPED THE FRENCH ARMY WITH LOGISTICS.
WE FOLLOW ONE AFGHAN REFUGEE IN PARIS WHO SENT SLEEPLESS NIGHTS HELPING TO EVACBASE HIS FELLOW AFGHANS FROM AWARE.
Reporter: THE VERY LAST FRENCH EVACUATION OUT OF KABUL.
IT LEFT WITHOUT INCIDENT.
BUT FOR THOSE ONBOARD, IT HAD BEEN A FRANTIC FIGHT TO FIND SOMEONE WHO COULD GET THEM INTO THE AIRPORT.
AN ANGEL WHO MIGHT WELL BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD.
IT'S 6:00 P.M. IN THE LITTLE CORNER OF AFGHANISTAN THAT HE'S CREATED IN NORTHERN PARIS.
FROM HERE, HE NORMALLY HELPS AFGHAN ASYLUM SEEKERS ARRIVING IN FRANCE.
BUT HE TELLS ME THAT THE CHAOS OF KABUL LED HIM TO JUMP INTO A NEW ROLE AS AN UNOFFICIAL CRISIS COORDINATOR.ONNECTED FROM PARISE ELIGIBLE FOR EVACUATION WHO SENT IN PICTURES OF THEMSELVES AND THEIR LOCATIONS TO HELP CONNECT THEM WITH FRENCH OFFICIALS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FRENCH.
FRENCH DIPLOMATIC SOURCES CONFIRMED HIS CRUCIAL ROLE IN HELPING PEOPLE LIKE THIS WHO SPENT THREE DAYS OUTSIDE THE AIRPORT.
SHE EXPLAINS SHE WASN'T WELL.
SHE SENT THIS PHOTO SAYING SHE MIGHT DIE IF SHE DIDN'T GET HELP.
CNN HAS CHANGED THE NAMES FOR SECURITY REASONS.
MY PARENTS ARE OUT, ASKS ONE DESPERATE WOMAN.
PLEASE HELP THEM.
IN ANOTHER ABDUL HAS DISAPPEARED SAYS ONE PERSON STUCK OUTSIDE.
WE ARE IN THE CANAL.
ABDUL IS INSIDE, REPLIES A FRENCH OFFICIAL.
NEAR ABBEY GATE, THE SITE OF THURSDAY'S SUICIDE ATTACK, THOSE WHO REACHED THE OTHER SIDE ARE SAVED.
BY MONDAY AFTERNOON, THIS GROUP CROSS THE CANAL, MET THEIR CONTACT AND REACHED SAFETY.
HIS JOURNEY HAS BROUGHT HIM TO THIS DOOR.
HE KNOWS ALL TOO WELL THE HEART TAKE AND HOPE OF FINDING REFUGE.
IT IS HIS CONNECTION TO THOSE HE'S HELPED.
THANK GOD.
BUT THERE ARE OTHER FRIENDS WHO ARE STILL STUCK.
ZARA SAYS SHE CAN'T BELIEVE THAT SHE KNEW WAR AS A YOUNG GIRL AND STILL NOW AS AN OLD WOMEN.
SHE SAID SHE'S HAPPY TO BE RELEASED FROM THE PRESSURE OF THE TALIBAN, BUT SO SAD TO HAVE LEFT HER HOMELAND, OUR CHILDREN, HER FRIENDS AND HER BELOVED AFGHAN HOME.
MICKED EMOTIONS SHARED BY THE EVACUEES AND THE MAN WHO HELPED BRING A GROUP OF STRANGERS TO SAFETY.TH THE IMAGES ON THEIR PS STILL ETCHED INDELIBLY ON THEIR MINDS. THERE WILL BE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF STORIES SIMILAR TO THAT ONE.
THANK YOU.
> WELL, MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO LEAVE AFGHANISTAN WILL BE LEFT BEHIND COME THAT AUGUST 31st DEADLINE TOMORROW.
TODAY THE PENTAGON SAID THE STATE DEPARTMENT WILL CONTINUE WORKING TO GET THEM OUT.
FOR AMERICANS, AND OTHER INDIVIDUALS THAT WANT TO BE ABLE TO LEAVE AFGHANISTAN AVENUE OUR WITHDRAWAL THE COMPLETE, THE STATE DEPARTMENT WILL WORK ACROSS MANY DIFFERENT LEVERS TO FACILITATE THAT TRANSPORTATION.
AS I SAID EARLIER, RIGHT NOW WE DO NOT ANTICIPATE A MILITARY ROLE IN THAT EFFORT.
FOR THOSE LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE EVACUATED, A TOUGH ROAD LIES ALREADY OFFICIALS ARE SAYING AT LEAST 34 UNACCOMPANIED AFGHAN CHILDREN HAVE ARRIVED IN THE UNITED STATES.
SOME HAVE BEEN REUNITED WITH FAMILY IN THE COUNTRY.
JOINING ME NOW IS PRESIDENT OF A NONPROFIT THAT PROVIDES HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE.
MARK, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
I WANTED TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU BECAUSE FOR THE PAST FEW WEEKS WE HAVE BEEN FOCUSSING ON STEP ONE.
THAT IS GETTING AFGHANS, OBVIOUSLY THE AMERICAN CITIZENS THERE, BUT AFGHAN SIVs AND THOSE WHO HELPED NATO ALLIES OUT OF THE COUNTRY AS POSSIBLE.
NOW THAT SO MANY ARE LEAVING, WE ARE INTO STEP TWO.
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE HOW ARE THEY RESETTLED?
AND THAT'S WHERE YOU STEP IN.
WHAT IS YOUR ORGANIZATION CURRENTLY DOING?
THANKS.
WELL, THE MAIN THING WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW IS PREPARING FOR THE ARRIVAL OF THOSE WHO ARE COMING AND THE RESETTLEMENT AND THE REINTEGRATION OF THOSE ALREADY HERE.
AND IN THE VARIOUS MILITARY BASES GETTING PROCESSED.
AND FOR THOSE TENS OF THOUSANDS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT NUMBER IS.
LET'S JUST SAY FIRST OFF, KUDOS AND HATS OFF TO THE U.S. MISSION FOR EVACUATING -- I THINK THE NUMBER IS 122 ALLIES THERE.
BUT FOR THOSE WHO REMAIN, HOW ARDUOUS IS THEIR PROCESS GOING TO BE IF THEY CAN FLEE?
WELL, THAT'S THE PROBLEM, IS THAT THERE REALLY IS NO PROCESS, RIGHT?
I MEAN, THEY SHOULD HAVE ANNOUNCED THE PULL-OUT WITH ALREADY HAVING A PLAN IN PLACE TO HAVE A PROCESS.
BUT THERE IS NO PROCESS.
SO NOW PEOPLE JUST HAVE TO GET SOMEHOW THE ATTENTION OF THE VARIOUS FORCES THAT ARE DOING THESE EVACUATIONS.
IT'S REALLY DIFFICULT.
THERE IS NO PROCESS WHATSOEVER.
HOW REALISTIC IS CONTINUING THIS PROCESS FROM OVER THE YOU JUST HEARD FROM THE PENTAGON SPOKESPERSON, JOHN KIRBY, THAT THIS WILL NOT INVOLVE U.S.
HOW ON EARTH CAN THIS HAPPEN AGAIN?
THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ASKING OURSELVES, TOO.
WE HAVE MORE QUESTIONS THAN ANSWERS RIGHT NOW.
I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WILL WORK.
THE AFGHANS WHO ARE STUCK THERE AND LAID THEIR LIVES DOWN, RISKED THEIR LIVES TO SUPPORT U.S. TROOPS DON'T KNOW EITHER.
THE EVACUATION -- THE COMPLETION OF THE TROOP WITHDRAWAL WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THIS WEEK.
IT IS HEARTENING TO HEAR THE UN IS MEETING TODAY, THE SECURITY COUNCIL, TO HAVE A SAFE ZONE.
BUT LET'S HOPE THAT SAFE ZONE WORKS AND LET'S HOPE IT IS ENFORCED BECAUSE RIGHT NOW THERE IS REALLY NO PROCESS FOR EVACUATION.
AND THAT'S WHERE ORGANIZATIONS LIKE YOURS STEP IN.
I KNOW YOU HAD BEEN IN TOUCH WITH THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE ADMINISTRATION ON EFFORTING FOR THESE AFGHANS AND THESE REFUGEES TO RESETTLE IN THE UNITED STATES.
EXPLAIN HOW THAT PROCESS WORKS.
YOU ARE AN ORGANIZATION, BY THE WAY, THAT'S OVER 120 YEARS OLD.
YOU HAVE AIDED REFUGEES GOING BACK OVER A CENTURY NOW.
WHAT ROLE DO YOU PLAY?
AND WHERE DOES YOUR MONEY COME FROM?
AND HOW MUCH MONEY ARE YOU ABLE TO GIVE THESE AFGHAN FAMILIES?
WELL, THAT'S A LOT OF QUESTIONS, BUT I'LL TRY TO ANSWER THEM.
WELL, ONE, IS THAT WE -- THERE ARE NINE AGENCIES LIKE US.
WE ARE THE JEWISH COMMUNITIES REFUGEE AGENCIES, BUT THERE ARE EIGHT OTHER AGENCIES.
SIX ARE FAITH-BASED.
THREE ARE SECULAR.
ALL OF US ARE WORKING TO PREPARE.
WE HAVE BEEN TOLD BY THE DEPARTMENT OF STATE TO PREPARE FOR 50,000 PAROLEES.
THESE ARE PEOPLE IN THE SIV PROCESS, THE AFGHANS WHO RISKED THEIR LIVES FOR THE UNITED STATES FORCES THERE, BUT WHO WERE NOT ABLE TO COMPLETE THAT 14 STEP PROCESS IN AFGHANISTAN.
SO THEY ARE COMING OVER HERE TO COMPLETE THAT PROCESS.
MOST ARE BEING HOUSED IN MILITARY BASES AROUND THE COUNTRY.
I HAVE STAFF DEPLOYED AT A NUMBER OF THOSE BASES HELPING WITH THEIR PAPERWORK AND THEIR ORIENTATION. THEY COMPLETED THOE STAGES, THEY WILL MOVE TO COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF THE NINE RESETTLEMENT AGENCIES.
IN MANY OF THESE COMMUNITIES, THEY WILL HAVE SOME TIES BECAUSE THEY SERVED ALONGSIDE AMERICANS AND OTHER AFGHANS HAVE PRECEDED THEM.
SO THEY WILL BE JOINING WITH THOSE COMMUNITY MEMBERS WHEN THEY GO TO THESE NEW TOWNS AND CITIES.
BUT IN TERMS OF OUR FUNDING, RIGHT NOW THERE IS -- NORMALLY WE GET FEDERAL FUNDING FOR REFUGEES. ARE GOING TO GET SOMEL FUNDING FOR THIS POPULATION.
BUT THE U.S. DOESN'T HAVE A MECHANISM TO DO THAT FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE PAROLED INTO THE UNITED STATES.SO WE ARE GETTING A LITTT OVER A THOUSAND DOLLARS PER SPECIAL IMMIGRANT FROM THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A LITTLE OVER $1,000 IN ASSISTANCE.IN THIS DAY AND AGE,T DOESN'T GET YOU VERY FAR.
YOU WROTE AN OP-ED AND YOU WEREN'T REALLY HOLDING BACK.
YOU INVOKED SOME OF THE POINTS YOU MADE WITH ME HERE.
HOW DID WE GET HERE?
SO MANY QUESTIONS TO BE ASKED ABOUT WHY THIS PROCESS WASN'T EXPEDITED EARLIER.
YOU TALK ABOUT THE 1968 REFUGEE CONVENTION AND LAWS IN PLACE THAT SHOULD HAVE AVOIDED THESE SITUATIONS.
OBVIOUSLY, IF NOT TRYING TO REPEAT HISTORY AFTER WE SAW THE ST. LOUIS TURNED AROUND.
THESE WERE 900 GERMAN JEWS IN 1939 WHO FLED EUROPE HOPING TO COME TO THE U.S. OR CUBA.
AND, YET, WE'RE STILL SEEING THIS BUREAUCRACY AND RED TAPE AND UNANSWERED QUESTIONS AS TO WHY MORE REFUGEES WEREN'T PROCESSED.
YEAH.
I'M GLAD YOU RAISE THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT CONCERNS ME THE THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TIME WE HAVE HAD A LARGE NUMBER OF REFUGEES LEAVING ON AN EMERGENCY BASIS THAT WE HAVE TO HELP.
CONGRESS GAVE THE PRESIDENT ALL THE TOOLS HE NEEDS WITH THE REFUGEE ACT OF 1980.
AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH HAS PUT MORE AND MORE AND MORE RED TAPE INTO THAT PROCESS, ERECTED MORE AND MORE ON TACKLES, WEIGHED DOWN THE PROCESS TO SUCH A POINT THAT IT CAN NO LONGER MOVE QUICKLY.
IT USED TO BE THAT REFUGEES WERE BROUGHT INTO THIS COUNTRY THROUGH THIS PAROLE PROCESS.
AND BECAUSE THERE WAS NO WAY FOR THEM TO COME IN AS REFUGEES.
CONGRESS CHANGED THAT IN 1980.
GAVE THIS MECHANISM FOR REFUGEES TO BE SETTLED HERE AS REFUGEES.
BUT IT IS TOO MIRED DOWN IN RED TAPE FOR THEM TO USE IT THAT WAY.
ONCE AGAIN WE'RE RELYING ON PAROLE, WHICH IS ILL SUITED FOR THIS, BUT IT IS BETTER SUITED THAN THE REFUGEE PROGRAM RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE TO TAKE A HARD LOOK AT THAT PROGRAM AND TRY TO MAKE SURE IT IS RESPONSIVE TO AN EMERGENCY NEED LIKE WHAT WE'RE FACING TODAY.
AND IT IS NOT JUST THE UNITED STATES THAT FINDS THEMSELVES IN THIS SITUATION.
A LOT OF OUR ALLIES OF RICHER COUNTRIES LIKE THE UK ARE NOT TAKING IN AS MANY AS CRITICS SAY THEY SHOULD.
THEY SAID THEY WOULD BE TAKING IN I BELIEVE 20,000 REFUGEES OVER A SPAN OF NINE YEARS.
I SPOKE WITH THE ALL BANE ONPRIME MINISTER WHO IS TAKING IN UPWARDS OF FOUR OR FIVE THOUSAND REFUGEES.
AND HE TOLD ME WHY THEY'RE DOING THAT.
AND HE SLIGHTLY ADMONISHED OTHER RICHER COUNTRIES THAT AREN'T.
TAKE A LISTEN.
THIS IS A TIME TO THINK ABOUT THEM WHO ARE BETWEEN LIFE AND DEATH.
AND ALBANIA IS NOT WRONG THE RICHEST COUNTRIES.
IT IS VERY WELL KNOWN.
BUT WE HAVE A MEMORY, AND WE VERY STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT IT'S IN THE HONOR OF ALL THE NATO MEMBERS AND ALL THIS COMMUNITY OF COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN PROMOTING BY THE FORCE OF EXAMPLE AND PROTECTING BY THE EXAMPLES OF FORCE IDEAS AND VALUES TO STAND UP.
OTHERWISE, WE RISK TO SEE NATO ITSELF FADING AWAY IN THE EYES OF SO MANY PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD CRAVING FOR FREEDOM, FOR DEMOCRACY, FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, FOR WOMEN EQUAL TREATMENT.
AND NOT ONLY NATO BUT ALL OUR -- OUR PART OF THE WORLD THAT IS BASED ON THESE VALUES AND PRINCIPALS.
MARK, DO YOU AGREE WITH HIM?
IS THIS THE DEFINING MOMENT NOW FOR NATO TO STEP UP?
OH, ABSOLUTELY.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW.
80% OF THE WORLD'S REFUGEES ARE HOSTED BY DEVELOPING COUNTRIES.
ALBANIA IS A LITTLE FURTHER ALONG THAN MOST REFUGEE HOSTING COMPANIES, BUT THIS IS A BURDEN THAT IS NOT EVENLY SHARED AT ALL.
AND I WOULD ALSO SAY -- SO THERE IS TWO THINGS HERE.
THERE IS THE POLITICAL WILL WE NEED TO HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY AND THAT OTHER COUNTRIES NEED AS WELL, PARTICULARLY IN THE WEST.
BUT WE NEED THE POLITICAL WILL AND THE AUTHORITY IN THIS COUNTRY TO MAKE THIS WORK.
AND RIGHT NOW YOU HAVE NO ACCOUNTABILITY BECAUSE THERE IS NO SINGLE AGENCY.
THERE IS NO SINGLE OFFICIAL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PROGRAM.
INSTEAD YOU HAVE HOMELAND SECURITY.
YOU HAVE THE STATE DEPARTMENT.
YOU HAVE HEALTH AND HUMAN YOU HAVE VARIOUS INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES AND LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES, ALL OF WHICH HAVE A HAND IN THIS PROGRAM.
THAT HAS NO LEADERSHIP AT THE TOP.
IT NEEDS LEADERSHIP AND POLITICAL WILL TO EXERCISE THAT LEADERSHIP.
TURKEY'S PRESIDENT WHO TOOK IN A LOT OF REFUGEES FOLLOWING THE WAR IN SYRIA ALREADY SAID THAT THE TURKEY WILL NOT BE THE REFUGEE WAREHOUSE THIS TIME, TO QUOTE HIM.
WE'RE SEEING BACKLASH OF THE I DON'T HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT FROM CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY WHO ARE ACCUSING SOME OF THESE IMMIGRANTS OF BEING TERRORISTS BECAUSE OF THEIR RELIGION, QUESTIONING THEM, NOT WANTING THEM TO COME TO THEIR AREAS AND THEIR HOMETOWNS.
AND I WANT TO REPEAT A STATISTIC THAT YOU PROVIDED US.
THAT IS THAT THE REFUGEE PROGRAM, YOURS, HAS RESETTLED MORE THAN 3.1 MILLION PEOPLE WITH NO LETHAL ACT OF TERROR COMMITTED BY A SINGLE ONE OF THEM ON U.S. SOIL.
SO WHERE DOES THIS PERCEPTION COME FROM THEN, MARK?
WELL, I THINK IT'S JUST, FRANKLY, POLITICAL GRAND STANDING.
IT IS A SOLUTION IN SEARCH OR A PROBLEM.
AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT REALLY UPSET ME WAS IN SEPTEMBER OF 2015 -- ACTUALLY IT WAS NOVEMBER 13th, 2013, ONE OF THE TERROR ATTACKS IN PARIS WHERE THERE WAS THIS UPROAR IN THE UNITED STATES OF 31 GOVERNORS AND MULTIPLE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES WHO SAID THAT WE NEED TO SHUT OUR DOORS TO SYRIAN MUSLIM REFUGEES AND 31 STATES PURPORTED TO DO THAT.
SERE YUM MUSLIM REFUGEES HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.
BUT SCAPEGOATING IS EASY.
AND, SO, INVESTING ALL THIS MONEY IN EXTREME VETTING, WHICH TAKES NOT ONLY MONTHS BUT YEARS TO GET THROUGH THE REFUGEE PROCESS IS NOT A GOOD INVESTMENT BECAUSE IT IS ADDRESSING A RISK WE HAVEN'T SEEN MANIFEST ITSELF IN THE 40-YEAR HISTORY OF THE LOOK AT ALL OF THE MILITARY HARDWARE THAT WE'RE LEAVING BEHIND IN AFGHANISTAN.
THEY WOULD BE A LOT MORE WORRIED ABOUT THAT.
YEAH.
I WOULD BE REMISS NOT TO CONCLUDE BY TELLING OUR VIEWERS MY OWN PERSONAL CONNECTION TO YOUR ORGANIZATION.
HAD IT NOT BEEN FOR YOU, MY PARENTS AND MYSELF WOULD NOT BE IN THE UNITED STATES AND CITIZENS.HELPED US.
WE WERE POLITICAL REFUGEES FROM THE FORMER SOVIET UNION WHO CAME AS JEWISH REFUGEES.
THAT IS MY FIRST PICTURE IN THE UNITED STATES, MY DAD AND ME.
AND YOU HELPED RESETTLE US IN HOUSTON, TEXAS, WHERE THE COMMUNITY WELCOMED US.
MY PARENTS STILL LIVE THERE.
AND I REMEMBER TO THIS DAY ALL OF THE BILLS THEY WOULD WRITE TO PAY THEM BACK.
BUT THEY MANAGED TO PUT TOGETHER THE MONEY TO THANK YOU AND YOUR ORGANIZATION.
OURS IS JUST ONE OF MILLIONS OF STORIES.I WAS HEARTENED TO READN AFGHAN STORY THAT HAD BEEN RESETTLED IN HOUSTON HAD BEEN TAKEN TO WALMART OVER THE WEEKEND.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU.
WE'RE VERY PROUD OF YOUR ACCOMPLISHMENTS HERE.
GOOD LUCK IN YOUR FUTURE ENDEAVORS AND KEEP US POSTED.
THANKS.
> NOW THE EVACUATION DEADLINE MAY STILL BE LOOMING BUT THE TALIBAN ARE ALREADY IMPOSING HARSH RESTRICTIONS.
ONE SPOKESMAN TELLING 'THE NEW YORK TIMES' THAT MUSIC IS FORBIDDEN.
ANY BAN WOULD BE A TOUGH BLOW TO A COUNTRY WITH SUCH A RICH CULTURAL HISTORY.
AFGHANISTAN FELL SILENT IN 1996 WHEN THE TALIBAN FIRST CAME TO POWER.
BUT MUSIC RETURNED TO THE COUNTRY IN NO SMALL PART THANKS TO MY NEXT GUEST, THE FOUNDER OF THE AFGHANISTAN FOUNDER OF MUSIC.
I SPOKE TO HIM JUST BEFORE COMMENTS MADE BY THE TALIBAN ABOUT MUSIC.
WE WERE ALSO JOINED BY HIS STUDENT WHO WAS A CONDUCTOR IN THE SCHOOL'S TRAIL BLAZING ALL FEMALE ORCHESTRA.
THEY BOTH JOINED US FROM OUTSIDE OF AFGHANISTAN.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
LET ME TELL OUR VIEWERS A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SCHOOL.
YOU OPENED IT IN 2010, THE AFGHANISTAN INSTITUTE OF MUSIC.
AT ITS PEAK IT HAD 300 STUDENTS.
35% OF THAT CONSISTED OF FEMALE STUDENTS.
WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE SCHOOL TODAY?
THE STATUS OF THE SCHOOL AND THE STATUS OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY IS UNPREDICTABLE.
THE SITUATION IS DEVELOPING VERY FAST ON THE GROUND IN AFGHANISTAN AND STILL WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WILL BE THEIR ATTITUDE TOWARDS MUSIC IN THE SECOND TIME IN POWER.
BUT THE PAST, THE TALIBAN BEING IN POWER AND THEIR ATTITUDE TOWARD MUSIC, ARTS AND CULTURE IS NOT ENCOURAGING THAT WE SHOULD BE HOPEFUL FOR THE FUTURE.
BUT STILL, WE HOPE THAT WE SHOULD SEE THAT CHANGE IN PRACTICE.
WE SHOULD SEE THAT THEY WILL RESPECT THE MUSIC CAL RIGHTS AND CULTURAL RIGHTS OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE THUS FAR.
MUSIC IN AFGHANISTAN HAS REALLY STRUGGLED TO COME TO THE AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT YOU HAVE HELPED BRING TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WITH THIS SCHOOL OVER THE PAST 20 YEARS, THE TWO DECADES SINCE THE U.S. INVASION THERE.
BUT THERE IS A ROCKY HISTORY BETWEEN MUSIC AND AFGHANISTAN.
IN PARTICULAR, MUSIC WAS CENSORED IN 1978 AND ONCE AGAIN ONCE THE TALIBAN CAME INTO PLAY.
DURING THAT TIME, YOU WERE BORN IN AFGHANISTAN.
A YEAR LATER, YOUR FAMILY FLED TO PAKISTAN, AND YOU GREW UP WITH MUSIC IN YOUR BONES.
YOU HAD A PASSION TO BE A POP STAR AND INSTEAD YOU TURNED TO CLASSICAL MUSIC.
TALK ABOUT THAT EXPERIENCE FOR YOU.
WHEN DID YOU FIRST DEVELOP THAT PASSION?
BEFORE, I USED TO THINK THAT MUSIC IS ALL JUST SINGING BECAUSE THAT WAS HOW IT WAS REPRESENTED ON TELEVISIONS AND I USED TO LISTEN TO DIFFERENT POP I WAS THINKING THAT, OKAY, THIS IS ALL MUSIC.
THERE IS MUSIC BACKGROUND AND THEN THAT'S HOW YOU ARE GOING TO BE THE POP STAR, YOU KNOW?
BUT THEN WHEN I WAS JUST TAKING MUSIC CLASSES HERE AND THERE, THEN I FOUND OUT ABOUT THE AFGHANISTAN SCHOOL OF MUSIC.
AND THEN I INTERNED AND THEN THERE WAS A PROCESS TO GET IN.
THEN I REALIZED WHAT MUSIC REALLY IS.
IT IS MORE THAN SINGING.
IT IS MORE THAN LYRICS.
IT IS MORE THAN PERFORMING.
YOU KNOW?
♪♪♪
SO MUSIC IS JUST A LOT IN THERE.
AND YOU WORKED YOUR WAY UP TO BEING THE CONDUCTOR OF THE ZORA YOU ALSO PLAY THE VIOLA AND THE YOU HAVE LITERALLY RISKED YOUR LIFE SO THESE WOMEN COULD PURSUE THEIR PASSION.
TALK ABOUT THAT MOMENT WHERE YOU ALMOST WERE KILLED.
THE AFGHANISTAN SCHOOL OF MUSIC AND MYSELF HAVE BEEN ON THE HIT LIST OF THE TALIBAN.
AND IN 2014, DURING A MUSICAL SHOW AND MY STUDENTS WERE PLAYING AT THE INSTITUTE OF AFGHANISTAN, A SUICIDE BOMBER WHO WAS SITTING BEHIND MY BACK EXPLODED HIMSELF.
THAT'S A VERY TRAGIC INCIDENT IN THE HISTORY OF AFGHANISTAN SCHOOL OF MUSIC.
BECAUSE TWO PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THE CONCERT HALL.
A BEAUTIFUL YOUNG JOURNALIST AND A GERMAN MAN WHO WAS SITTING NEXT TO ME.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY MY STUDENTS GOT TRAUMATIZED.
THE ENTIRE AUDIENCE WAS BUT IT DID NOT END THERE.
THE SUBSEQUENT STATEMENT OF THE TALIBAN PROMISED TO GET AFTER THE MUSIC SCHOOL AND ANYONE THAT PROMOTES MUSIC AND MUSIC EDUCATION IN AFGHANISTAN THAT HAS BEEN CAPTURED BY THE TALIBAN.
AND THAT WAS THERE.
IN 2015 THERE WAS ANOTHER PLAN.
AND IN 2017 ANOTHER GROUP HAS BEEN ARRESTED THAT PLANNED TO ESTABLISH A GROUP TO ELIMINATE ME.
ONCE AGAIN, TO ENSURE THE MUSICAL RIGHTS OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE, THAT'S THE BIGGEST REPORT THAT ONE MAY DESIRE TO HAVE.
AND I'M VERY PLEASED THAT I PLAYED A MODEST ROLE IN THE LIFE OF MANY YOUNG PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN, AND IF I MANAGE TO MAKE THEIR LIFE DIFFERENT, THAT'S WHAT I WAS IN AFGHANISTAN.
I THINK YOUR STUDENTS WOULD SAY THAT YOU PLAYED MORE THAN A MODEST ROLE IN THEIR SUCCESS.
ZARIFA, YOUR PERSONAL STORY FACED CHALLENGES AS YOU WERE GROWING UP AS WELL.
I KNOW THERE WERE UNCLES AND MEMBERS OF YOUR FAMILY WHO DIDN'T BELIEVE THAT A GIRL SHOULD BE SPENDING HER TIME IN MUSIC AND ARTS AND CULTURE.
THAT IS ONE STRUGGLE.
TALK ABOUT BEING SURROUNDED BY GOVERNMENT OFFICIALS WHO ALSO BELIEVE THE SAME AND MAY THEN CLOSE THE SCHOOL AND POTENTIALLY RISKED YOUR OWN LIFE IN PURSUING YOUR PASSION.
JUST TO BE HONEST, THESE FEW DAYS I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT YOU KNOW?
ABOUT PAST FEW YEARS, THE WAY I HAVE STUDIED MUSIC, THE WAY I HAVE BEEN FIGHTING A CONSERVATIVE FAMILY OR CONSERVATIVE SOCIETY IN ORDER TO PLAY MUSIC, IN ORDER TO PERFORM ON THE STAGE.
NOW THINKING ABOUT HOW THE TALIBAN COMING IN AFGHANISTAN, THOSE WHO THINK MUSIC IS FORDIDDEN, THOSE WHO HAD DESTROYED MUSIC ONCE UPON A TIME, IT IS SCARY TO THINK ABOUT IT.
I CANNOT THINK -- LIKE IT IS JUST SO SCARY TO THINK ABOUT BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN -- IT WAS NOT JUST HARD FOR ME, BUT IT WAS HARD FOR MANY MEMBERS OF THE ORCHESTRA BECAUSE WE WERE REALLY FIGHTING TO LIKE A VERY -- TO A COMMUNITY, YOU KNOW, THAT THEY ARE WAY, WAY, WAY BETTER THAN THE TALIBAN.
SO JUST TO BE HONEST, WHENEVER I START THINKING ABOUT -- ABOUT TALIBAN BEING IN AFGHANISTAN AND ABOUT MY PROFESSION IN MUSIC AND ABOUT MY CLASS MATES, IT IS JUST -- I JUST CANNOT COME TO A POINT OR I CANNOT THINK OF A RESULT OR I CANNOT THINK WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
IT IS JUST -- IT IS JUST SO FURIOUS, I CAN SAY.
I CANNOT THINK IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
AND TO FOLLOW UP ON THAT, YOU BOTH ARE FORTUNATE TO BE OUT OF AFGHANISTAN NOW.
I'M SURE THAT DAY IN AND DAY OUT YOUR FOCUS IS ON THOSE STUDENTS WHO REMAINED THERE.
CURRENTLY THE SAFETY AND THE SECURITY OF THE STUDENTS AND FACULTY AND THE COMMUNITY IS A TOP PRIORITY.
PERSONALLY TOGETHER WITH FRIENDS, WE DO EVERYTHING ABSOLUTELY TO PROVIDE SAFETY AND SECURITY TO MY STUDENT.
THIS WILL BE FOLLOWED BY THE SECOND TOP PRIORITY, WHICH IS TO BEGIN NEGOTIATING, BEGIN TALKING AND TO MAKING SURE THAT THE MUSICAL RIGHTS OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE IS NOT TAKEN AWAY FROM THEIR LIFE.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY TO USE THE SOFT POWER OF MUSIC TO TRANSFORM NOT ONLY THE RIGHTS OF AFGHAN CHILDREN BUT AT THE SAME TIME TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION TO THE BETTERMENT OF AFGHAN SOCIETY BUT ALSO TO BUILD BRIDGES BETWEEN AFGHAN PEOPLE AND ALSO TO CONTRIBUTE TO A LONG, LASTING PEACE IN AFGHANISTAN.
WHUNS ZARIFA IS ABLE TO GET HER VIOLA, GET ON THE STAGE AND PERFORM IN FRONT OF HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.
PEACE IS WHEN AN AFGHAN CHILDREN WITHOUT FEAR CAN COME TO A MUSIC SCHOOL AND TO BENEFIT FROM THE BEAUTY OF MUSIC AND ALSO FOR HOW MUSIC CAN CONTRIBUTE IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A CHILD.
IT WAS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT ITSELF TO OPEN A SCHOOL AND HAVE STUDENTS IN THE HUNDREDS JOIN AND GROW THEIR MUSICAL TALENTS AND DREAMS WITHIN THE COUNTRY.
BUT WE SHOULD LET OUR VIEWERS KNOW THAT YOU ARE INTERNATIONALLY ACCLAIMED.
YOU HAVE PERFORMED IN SOME OF THE MOST PRESTIGIOUS MUSIC VENUES IN THE WORLD.
WHAT ARE YOU MOST PROUD OF IN YOUR, I WOULD SAY, SHORT, SHORT HISTORY OF SUCCESS?
WHAT I'M PROUD OF MOST IS NOT JUST ALL THIS AWARDS THAT I THE MOST I CAN BE PROUD IS WHEN I SEE ZARIFA AND SHE'S TOMORROW'S AFGHANISTAN, THE MOST ENJOYABLE SUCCESS.
THE CHANGES THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT TO THE LIVES OF MANY, MANY AFGHANS BOYS AND GIRLS, THE FACT THAT WE MANAGED TO BRING THEM TO OUR SCHOOL, I'M VERY PROUD OF OUR SCHOOL WHERE WE CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS A BEACON OF HOPE FOR THE COUNTRY.
ALL ARE UNFORGETTABLE ACHIEVEMENTS, BUT THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN ARE CAPABLE OF STANDING FROM THE HASHES AND MOVING FORWARD.
WHAT DO YOU WANT THE WORLD TO KNOW ABOUT WHAT MUSIC MEANS NOT ONLY TO YOU BUT TO ALL OF YOUR FRIENDS AND I WOULD SAY MILLIONS OF AFGHAN CHILDREN?
I FEEL MUSIC CAN BE KIND OF A ROUTE TO CREATE PEACE AMONG ALL THE YOUTH OF AFGHANISTAN AND ALL THE PEOPLE AND ALL THE ETHNICITY.
MUSIC WAS -- LIKE I EXPERIENCED IT MYSELF.
I HAVE MY BEST FRIENDS FROM DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES IN MY CHILDREN, LIKE WE ALL WERE COMING FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF AFGHANISTAN AND WE'RE SITTING IN ONE ORCHESTRA AND WE'RE PLAYING THE SAME MUSIC.
WE WERE TRYING OUR BEST TO PLAY IT AS BEAUTIFUL AS WE CAN.
SO I THINK MUSIC IS -- IS A TOOL TO BRING ALL PEOPLE TOGETHER TO UNITE THEM TO THINK ABOUT HUMANITY TO THINK ABOUT BEAUTY TO THINK ABOUT PEACE AND FRIENDSHIP AND FAR FROM WAR, FIGHT, KILLING AND EVERYTHING.
SO MUSIC IS REALLY IMPORTANT IN EVERY COUNTRY.
AS I SAID BEFORE, IT IS THE IDENTITY OF US.
YOU KNOW?
IT IS THE IDENTITY OF PEOPLE, A COUNTRY.
SO MUSIC CAN DO A LOT OF THINGS, NOT JUST IN AFGHANISTAN, BUT AROUND THE WORLD.
YOU HAVE MILLIONS, TENS OF MILLIONS, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ROOTING FOR THAT DAY WHEN MUSIC CAN CONTINUE TO THRIVE IN AND ZARIFA, I HOPE AND OUR AUDIENCE HOPES WE CAN ONE DAY LISTEN TO YOU PERFORM AS WELL.
THANK YOU.
THANK YOU.
> WE REACHED OUT AFTER OUR INTERVIEW WHEN THE NEWS CAME OF A POTENTIAL BAN ON MUSIC.
SHE TOLD US HER FRIENDS ARE BREAKING THEIR OWN INSTRUMENTS FEARING WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF THE TALIBAN FIND THEM.
SHE SAID I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE MY AFGHANISTAN WITHOUT MUSIC.
IT'S HEART-BREAKING.
YES, IT IS HEART-BREAKING.
THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.
THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.
THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.
KU AND PATRICIA UWEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
♪♪♪ YOU'RE WATCHING PBS.