Is Bipartisanship Still Possible After Jan. 6?

SARA SIDNER, SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: In America’s battle for democracy, the January 6th Committee has highlighted the danger and threats posed by the far-right and former President Donald Trump. But many of the Committee’s members are not seeking reelection. One of them, Representative Stephanie Murphy announced last year she would be retiring after just three terms and serving as Chief Deputy Whip of the House Democratic majority. To reflect on her time in Congress, she joins Michel Martin.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Sara. Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy, thank you so much for talking with us.

REP. STEPHANIE MURPHY (D-FL): It’s great to be with you.

MARTIN: So, Congresswoman, we are — obviously, we’re speaking to you for a number of reasons. You had a very consequential year. You’re serving on the Congressional Committee investigating the January 6th mob attack on the Capitol. And you also made the decision to retire after three terms, or at least to retire from Congress. So, I want to dig into all of those things. But I thought it would be helpful if we just started with why you decided to run for Congress to begin with.

MURPHY: Well, I really do believe in a citizen Congress and I came from a place that did not have democracy. And my family and I are refugees and immigrants from communist Vietnam. And so, I’ve always appreciated the opportunities I’ve had here in the United States to live in a democracy. To be able to vote for my leadership. And in June of 2016, a gunman walked into a nightclub in my community and took the lives of 49 innocent individuals. And the person representing me in the house of representatives took a check from the NRA two days later. You know, our community was still in mourning. We hadn’t yet buried the loved ones, and that representation did not seem consistent with what this community wanted. And so, having never run for public office, I decided that, you know, even if I didn’t win, it was worth having a public conversation about community safety and gun safety. So, I ran a campaign on job security and equality. And I ran a four-month campaign and unseated a 24-year incumbent.

MARTIN: As we’re speaking now, it’s a couple days before the end of the election season. And the fact of the matter is, it’s a midterm and midterm elections generally have, you know, headwinds for whichever party, you know, holds the White House, right? And so, since Democrats hold the White House it’s, you know, the historical trend is that, you know, that’s the party that’s going to struggle in this midterm. But even having said that, Democrats seem to be struggling more than they think they should be given, as they see it, how radical the Republican Party has become in certain spheres. So, why do you think Democrats are struggling?

MURPHY: Our party has struggled to articulate the economic policies that have helped the American people that we have been able to pass into law. And sometimes, some of the voices within our party tend to focus on issues that don’t resonate as much at that kitchen table of your average American. But the reality is that we really had a great legislative record to have run on. We passed historic infrastructure investments. We passed historic climate change investments. We passed a historic gun violence, gun safety bill. We also invested in Americas manufacturing by passing the CHIPS bill. And in the moment of America’s greatest need, where we were at the height of the pandemic, the Democratic Party made sure that there were shots in arms and checks in pockets, to get people through that pandemic. It’s hard though to remind voters sometimes about what happened 18 months to two years ago. And instead, what they are going to the polls with is what they are feeling in this moment. And I think the candidates that will prevail are the ones that are able to convince the voters that they not only have delivered for them in the past, but will continue to deliver for them.

MARTIN: So, why are you leaving? I mean, it seems as though you are a person who has found a way to articulate that message. And I also want to point out that you have a reputation as being one of the so-called centrist Democrats. I mean, you’re one of the co-chairs of a group called the Blue Dog Democrats, which is explicitly intended to kind of create a centrist voice on issues of concern to the American people, you know, trade, economic policy, and so forth. You have a very interesting, sort of, background. And you, obviously, have succeeded. So, why are you leaving?

MURPHY: I’m leaving for personal reasons. You know, I think every working parent has to balance their personal responsibilities with their professional aspirations. And I have an 11-year-old and an eight-year-old who need a little more of my time these days. And I’ve said, you know, this has been a huge honor of my life to serve in Congress. But it hasn’t come without a price — a personal sacrifice and a personal price. And I think those decisions and the fact that I have had careers and passions outside of the world of politics led me to making a decision that, you know, this is the right moment for my family and I, for me to pursue other avenues that allow me to spend a bit more time with them.

MARTIN: Obviously, the January 6th Committee is very focused on what were the motivating factors that lead thousands of Americans to assault the Capitol for the purpose of interfering with the peaceful transfer of power. But part of what you are investigating here is whether this sort of fever has taken hold, this kind of cultic belief in the election being fraudulently decided. And so, I guess I sort of wonder whether you still believe that you could prevail in a district, given that these beliefs have taken hold amongst such a large swath of the party, of the opposition party.

MURPHY: I believe I could have. I’ve always run on some formula of job security and opportunity. Opportunity for a shot at the American dream and talking about very local issues. But let’s talk a bit about what the January 6th Committee has found. I think you have to be able to do both, right? Deliver for every day Americans on the issues that matter most to them, but also seek to preserve our democracy. And I think having worked on failed democracies while I was at the department of defense, you know, working with foreign partners and seeing how democracies are functioning until they are not, I find it very dangerous that powerful people are using misinformation and exploiting the, you know, weaknesses within our ever-evolving democracy to retain power, to hold on for their own good. That’s the antithesis of what a democracy is. It’s not about one person. It’s about all of us. And so, while I wish that were on the ballot, I also am realistic about what is on the ballot. So, you run your races on what is on the ballot and then you do the best you can to defend the democracy that enables you to continue to deliver legislation and bills that help support peoples’ livelihoods.

MARTIN: Can I ask you, why did you agree to serve on the January 6th Committee? What do you think you’ve gotten from it or learned from it or what do you take away from it?

MURPHY: So, on January 6th, 2021, near — just over 40 years from the day that my family and I escaped communist Vietnam in the dead of night, I found myself fleeing from my fellow Americans. And that impacted me deeply. I have always been so grateful for the opportunity that America provided my family. To live in a place where there was a rule of law, that there was an orderly transition of power, that democracy was vibrant and, you know, while we had our disagreements, there was a process by which the American people were able to make their feelings about their elected officials known. And for a couple of centuries, that didn’t include violent acts. And so, I think I was stunned by what happened on January 6th. But also committed to ensuring that I was somebody who, in history, as people look back, have stood up and sought to defend our democracy. I also recognize that the January 6th effort had to be a political effort. And I’m probably one of the most apolitical people in Congress. I am often named one of the most bipartisan members, one of the most effective members, because I don’t really consider whether somebody’s a Democrat or a Republican when I work with them. I work with them to achieve a goal that advances this country and is good from for the constituents. And I know that that’s my reputation on the hill. I thought that this committee needed those voices. People who were willing to step up and defend our democracy, and to do so in an apolitical way.

MARTIN: You said several times that you are particularly proud of your ability to work with people across the aisle. Did that change after January

6th? Did you notice that — did your relationships with people change after January 6th?

MURPHY: It did — January 6th definitely put a pause on the relationship. I think it took a lot of really honest conversations with my colleagues to try to understand why after the horrific events of January 6th that we had all just survived together. They would still come to the house floor and vote to object. And I realized that there were two types of people. There are people who did it because that — they had concerns about either the way the — they had concerns about systemic process things. And it came from an earnest concern and a feeling that they had a responsibility to at least mark that concern. And then there were people who came cynically. Who were hopeful that their vote would somehow lead to a delay or a change in the outcome. And I think you have to, kind of, be able to distinguish between the two. There were people who voted not to certify certain states, who still believe the president — that President Biden is rightfully and fairly elected. But they registered their concern about a particular state. And then there are others who not only voted against certification on January – – in the wee hours of, I guess, January 7th, but who continue to, this day, to press the narrative that the president was not fairly elected. And I think that those people makes it a lot harder to work with those.

MARTIN: Did you — you said there were some honest conversations, can I just ask, like, what was that like?

MURPHY: They came in a number of forms. Not always comfortable. There was a conversation as a part of a larger group, and I was a member of the problem solvers caucus, and that’s a group of Democrats and Republicans that are supposed to be committed to getting things done on behalf of the American people. And there were a handful of them who had voted not to certify. So, we had a fairly — a group discussion about that. And then I also had one-on-one conversations, where people who said, hey, it feels different between us. You know, the — can we talk about this? Can I explain to you what my thought process was? You know, how I got there on that day. And so, it was a variety of conversations. And I think my constituents sent me to Washington to get things done on behalf of them and the American people. And I couldn’t not work with — I don’t know, what is it, two- thirds of the Republican caucus. I couldn’t just decide not to speak to them anymore over this issue.

MARTIN: One of the things that we’ve observed this year, and also increasingly, is that the Republican Party is making an effort to reach out to immigrant communities, refugee communities, in a way that they had not before. And one of their avenues for reaching out is saying that the Democrats are communists, basically. The Democrats are socialist or that the Democrats are opening the door to socialism. I mean, there have been campaign ads that basically come right out and call people, Democrats, you know, socialists. Do you think these messages are resonating? And if so, why?

MURPHY: They are resonating and I don’t think my party takes those attacks seriously enough. In fact, in the 2020 election, I cut and ran an ad pushing back on that narrative that run in South Florida. Not even my district. But I felt so strongly that it was a weakness that the party was not addressing, that I went out and did it myself. It is resonating. And it’s resonating not just with the Vietnamese community, in the Cuban community. But it’s resonating with other Latin American communities who either flirted with communism or are impacted by the migration of people out of countries where that failed system is driving people’s departure. And so, I think it strikes very close to home. Once you have fled socialism or communism, you don’t want to have anything to do with it ever again. And if there’s even a hint at that, I think, you know, people will pick the other choice. And because the Republicans narrative is going unanswered, really. by the Democratic party, it’s been a potent hit on Democrats. I will also note that I think many in my party are afraid to talk about the kind of capitalist system that we would like to see. And for me, it has to be a Democratic capitalist system. Those are the two pillars that make this country so strong, our form of governance and our economic system. And what that means is proper guardrails on our, you know, economic actors so that there’s equal opportunity for everyone and no one is exploited. But I think a lot of people in the Democratic Party are shy to admit that they support our capitalist economy.

MARTIN: So, before we let you go, Congresswoman, I just want to just ask you to reflect on something. Because, you know, as we are speaking now, we are days away from the — an attack — a vicious, violent attack on the husband of the speaker of the house, Nancy Pelosi. And I think people are horrified by this. A lot of people are horrified by this. But more than that, it does make you wonder whether people — it gives people a sense of whether this kind of public service is worth it or not. And so, what would you say to someone like you, who’s looking at that and thinking, why is it worth it?

MURPHY: I would encourage anybody into public service because I believe that is what will keep and hold this country’s future and our democracies, good people willing to serve. But I also would say that, you know, be a little wide eyed about and understand that there are personal sacrifices that come with the job, but that the — that it is worth it. What I would say also though to my fellow Americans and to my colleagues is that we have a responsibility to turn down the political rhetoric and the tone and tenor of our public debates, and return a level of civility to our conversations. We can disagree on policy, but we should never make it personal. And if we can’t turn it down — turn down the volume and create a space for it to be safe, to be a public official, we are going to leave our government in the hands of the maniacally ambitious or just the weird. Because normal people who have families and opportunities to create a living in other ways and other passions will make the calculus that that’s not worth it. And I would hate to see that because that is really the beginning of the unraveling for our country.

MARTIN: Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy, Democrat from Florida, thank you so much for talking with us today.

MURPHY: Thanks so much for having me.