Carnegie Moscow Center Dir. Discusses Ukraine Crisis

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: I will say that, the last time we spoke — and I’m sure you have something to — will admit this — you didn’t think this was going to happen. What do you think you misjudged about Putin?

DMITRI TRENIN, DIRECTOR, CARNEGIE MOSCOW CENTER: Well, I think that there have been some important developments. Like, I’m not reporting from the Kremlin. I sit miles and miles away from the Kremlin. So I can only say what is visible to people like myself. It’s interesting that, even a week ago, President Putin was urging President Zelensky, using fairly colorful language, to implement the Minsk Agreement, whether he likes it or not. And then, on Monday, he basically took Russia out of the Minsk Agreement and called it dead from — not from the beginning, but from early on. A few things must have happened.

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: So he violated that.

TRENIN: Well, look, from the standpoint of Russia — and I think you would agree — Ukraine never really had any intention to implement the Minsk Agreement, because it was argued in Ukraine — and you heard it as many times as I have, I’m sure — that this is an agreement that was signed at gunpoint, as the Ukrainian army was being decimated in Debaltseve. This is high treason. No Ukrainian government would stand if it tried to implement the agreement. There were recent comments that an implementation of Minsk would mean destabilizing Ukraine. And I can go on and on and on. And Russia was certainly pushing…

AMANPOUR: OK.

TRENIN: … pushing for the agreement to be implemented, because it works for Russia. But I think Putin was really…

(CROSSTALK)

AMANPOUR: Yes. Well, look, Dmitri, it might work for Russia in some points. But I have spoken to a lot of independent analysts who say that, actually, it was Putin and Russia that made it impossible to implement Minsk.