Destroyed Communities & Climate Migrants: Climate Change Upends Small Towns

>>> NOW WE TURN TO A STORY CLOSER TO HOME.

HURRICANES, STORMS AND WILDFIRES ARE FORCING AMERICANS TO ABANDON THEIR HOMES AS NATURE LASHES OUT AGAINST HUMAN-MADE CLIMATE CHANGE.

OVER 3 MILLION AMERICANS HAVE MOVED DUE TO A RISK OF FLOODING AND CLIMATE EXPERTS EXPECT SOMETHING 13 MILLION COASTAL RESIDENTS TO BE DISPLACED BY THE END OF THE CENTURY.

OUR NEXT GUEST, JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, HAS REPORTED FROM THE FRONT LINES OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

HE IS SPEAKING WITH HARI SREENIVASAN ABOUT HOW AMERICAN TOWNS CAN BECOME MORE RESILIENT AND WHY IT'S CRUCIAL TO LISTEN TO THE SCIENCE.

>> JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

YOUR NEW BOOK IS BASED ON ALL THE TIME THAT YOU HAVE SPENT AS A NETWORK CORRESPONDENT COVERING CLIMATE DISASTERS.

IT'S CALLED "BEFORE IT'S GONE, STORIES FROM THE FRONT LINES OF CLIMATE CHANGE IN SMALL TOWN AMERICA."

WHY SMALL TOWNS?

>> SMALL TOWNS LACK THE ENGINEERING, THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THE BUDGETS TO SURVIVE THE KINDS OF STORMS THAT INCREASINGLY MORE AND MORE OF THESE SMALL TOWNS ARE BEING IMPACTED BY.

I CALL THEM CANARIES IN THE COAL MINE.

WHAT LARGER CITIES WILL EXPERIENCE MORE OF AS MOTHER NATURE OUTPACES OUR ABILITY TO HOLD HER BACK.

AS OUR MODERN TOOLS ARE NO LONGER GOOD ENOUGH.

WE ARE SEEING THIS UNFOLD IN BIG CITIES.

I COVER BIG CITIES IN THIS BOOK AS WELL.

FOLLOWING SUPER STORM SANDY.

I WAS WORKING FOR WNBC AT THE TIME.

I SAW FIRSTHAND THE IMPACT THAT STORM HAD IN KNOCKING OFFLINE NEW YORK CITY, ONE OF THE GREATEST CITIES IN THE WORLD, FOR NOT JUST DAYS AND WEEKS BUT MONTHS.

IT'S A STORY WE CONTINUE TO TELL ALL THESE YEARS LATER.

IN SMALLER COMMUNITIES, WHICH ARE ON THE FRONT LINES IN REAL TIME BEING IMPACTED, THESE STORIES ARE BEING FORGOTTEN.

IT'S IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THESE SMALL TOWNS, TO LEARN FROM THEIR LESSONS AND TO TAKE ACTION TO BUILD MORE RESILIENCY.

>> LET'S TAKE OUR AUDIENCE THROUGH A COUPLE OF THESE TOWNS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN TO AND WITNESSED FIRSTHAND.

PARADISE IN CALIFORNIA, THE FIRE THAT RAN THROUGH THERE.

WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND AS YOU STARTED COVERING THE STORY AND SEEING THE ABSOLUTE DEVASTATION?

>> THE CAMPFIRE IN 2018 DESTROYED 95% OF THE COMMUNITY.

85 PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

I WAS IN LONDON AT THE TIME.

I WAS BASED AS A FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT THERE WHEN THE FIRE HIT.

THEN MOVED TO THE WEST COAST A FEW MONTHS LATER.

SIX MONTHS LATER, I VISITED PARADISE.

I HAD SEEN THE DESTRUCTION THROUGH THE LENS OF THE CAMERA REMOTELY AND WAS STRUCK BY THE DISASTER ZONE THAT I ARRIVED TO.

MOST STRUCK BY THE PEOPLE, THE SURVIVORS I MET WHO MADE THE DECISION VERY EARLY ON INSTEAD OF LEAVING TOWN, MOVING ELSEWHERE, MADE AN EFFORT TO MOVE BACK IN AND TO REBUILD.

THE LESSONS FROM THESE SURVIVORS OFFER SURVIVOR GUIDES IF WE LISTEN TO THEIR STORIES.

HOW TO PREVENT A DISASTER.

IF ONE HAPPENS, HOW TO NAVIGATE THROUGH THE RED TAPE TO REBUILD.

I WAS MOST STRUCK BY A MOTHER AND DAUGHTER WHO MOVED BACK IMMEDIATELY.

WHILE THEIR FAMILY AND FRIENDS THOUGHT THEY WERE CRAZY, THEY SAW AN OPPORTUNITY TO REBUILD THEIR TOWN IN A RESILIENT WAY.

POWER LINES TODAY IN PARADISE ARE UNDERGROUND.

EVERY HOME HAS TO CREATE DEFENSIBLE SPACE BY REMOVING SHRUBS, TREES FROM AROUND HOMES, BUILDING WITH MORE FIRE-RESISTANT MATERIALS.

THEY SAW A WAY TO CREATE A MORE RESILIENT COMMUNITY.

I THINK THAT THEIR STORY IS POWERFUL TO OTHER COMMUNITIES WHO HAVE TIME TO TAKE ACTION AND THOSE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED, HOW TO NAVIGATE THROUGH ALL OF THE BUREAUCRATIC RED TAPE TO REBUILD AND TO CREATE A NEW START OVER.

>> HOW MANY PEOPLE CAME BACK TO PARADISE?

>> ONLY A QUARTER SO FAR HAVE RETURNED.

THIS IS FIVE YEARS IN.

I SPOKE WITH THE MAYOR A FEW YEARS AGO.

HE SAID IT WOULD TAKE ABOUT 15 YEARS TO GET HALF OF THE POPULATION TO RETURN.

THIS IS A COMMUNITY THAT IS STRUGGLING.

HAD THEY TAKEN EARLY ACTION BEFORE THE STORM HIT, THEY WOULDN'T BE IN THE SITUATION RIGHT NOW.

OF COURSE, SO MANY PEOPLE THAT I SPEAK WITH IMAGINE NOTHING LIKE THIS HAPPENING TO THEM UNTIL IT DOES.

NOW WITH NEW EYES, THEY SEE THE THINGS THAT COULD BE DONE DIFFERENTLY TO CREATE A SAFER PLACE TO LIVE.

>> YOU POINT OUT IN YOUR BOOK THAT THERE'S A LONGER TERM RIPPLE AFFECT OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ESSENTIALLY THERE ARE CLIMATE MIGRANT, EVEN INSIDE THIS COUNTRY.

WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU DISCOVERED?

>> IF WE GO BACK TO JUST HURRICANE KATRINA, YOU HAD A MILLION OF THESE CLIMATE MIGRANTS WHO DISPERSED AROUND THE COUNTRY.

GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY EARLY ON IN THEIR RESEARCH FOUND THAT SOME HOST COMMUNITIES BECAME LESS RECEPTIVE AND SUPPORTING OF FUNDING TO HELP THE POOR AND AFRICAN AMERICANS.

GOING BACK TO PARADISE, WE SEE THE SAME THING IN CHICO.

YOU HAVE FRICTION WHEN THEY ARE STARTING TO MIX.

VOTERS ARE OPPOSING AFFORDABLE HOUSING MEASURES.

THIS IS A SIMILAR CONFLICT WE SEE.

2.5 MILLION AMERICANS WERE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES LAST YEAR, ACCORDING TO THE U.S. CENSUS BUREAU.

2.5 MILLION FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES BECAUSE OF EXTREME WEATHER.

NEW RESEARCH OUT LAST MONTH SHOWED THAT HALF OF ALL AMERICAN HOMES ARE THREATENED BY CLIMATE CHANGE.

AS THE CLIMATE CONTINUES TO FUEL THE KINDS OF WEATHER EVENTS WE ARE SEEING, WE WILL CONTINUE TO SEE MORE OF THESE MIGRANTS.

FAULT LINES IN OTHER COMMUNITIES AS THEY DEAL WITH ABSORBING NEW PEOPLE MOVING IN WHO HAVE LOST THEIR HOMES.

>> WHERE IS THE FREE MARKET IN ALL OF THIS?

IDEALLY, WE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE A SYSTEM WHERE, OKAY, YOU CAN LIVE IN A MORE DANGEROUS AREA.

IT'S GOING TO COST YOU MORE.

AS YOU POINT OUT, THERE ARE INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO ARE JUST WALKING AWAY FROM ENTIRE REGIONS.

>> THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT HAVE ALL PLAYED A ROLE HISTORICALLY IN WHERE WE BUILD.

I BELIEVE IT'S THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY'S RESPONSIBILITY TO SUPPORT CURRENT HOMES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME DISCOURAGING RISKY BUILDING IN UNSAFE PLACES.

WE ARE SEEING THAT HAPPEN IN PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA AND ALONG THE COASTS, ON THE EAST COAST, WHERE YOU ARE HAVING CERTAIN PARTS OF THE INDUSTRY PULL OUT FROM CERTAIN MARKETS.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS BUSINESS AS USUAL IS NO LONGER SUSTAINABLE.

WHERE I LIVE HERE IN HOLLYWOOD -- I BOUGHT MY HOME FOUR YEAR AGO.

I HAD AN ISSUE FINDING INSURANCE.

AT FIRST, EVERYTHING WAS ABOUT $1,000 A MONTH.

UNTIL I FOUND AN INSURANCE AGENCY THAT HAD AN AFFORDABLE MONTHLY BILL.

BUT WHAT I HAD TO DO AS A RESULT WAS MEET THEIR REGULATIONS, INCLUDING THE DEFENSIBLE SPACE AROUND MY HOME.

WE HAD TO REMOVE BUSHES AND TREES SO OUR HOME IN THE EVENT THERE WAS A WILDFIRE WOULD NOT BE IMPACTED.

WE SEE THIS HAPPEN ALONG THE COAST.

WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS TAKING ACTION.

THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, THEY HAVE A PROGRAM THAT IDENTIFIES PROPERTIES THAT ARE AT RISK OF FLOODING AND WHETHER OR NOT IT'S SAFE TO HAVE THOSE PEOPLE STAY WHERE THEY ARE, BUILD THEIR HOMES ON STILTS, WHICH IS FEDERALLY FUNDED, OR THROUGH FEDERAL FUNDING MOVE THOSE LOCATIONS, MOVE THOSE HOMES TO SAFER PLACES.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE ARE SEEING NEW PROGRAMS PUT INTO PLACE BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ALSO DICTATED BY THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, ON WHERE IT IS SAFE TO LIVE.

>> SPEAKING OF DEFENSIBLE HOMES AND THINKING ABOUT THAT AND PLANNING ABOUT THAT, TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HOUSE WITH THE RED ROOF.

>> BEFORE I WROTE THIS BOOK, IN MY JOURNAL I WROTE A SENTENCE, BEFORE EVERY DISASTER, THERE'S USUALLY A SCIENTIST THAT'S BEING IGNORED.

UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT.

MY TEAM AND I WERE ONE OF THE FIRST NETWORK CREWS TO ARRIVE IN WHAT WAS LEFT OF THE DOWNTOWN.

MORE THAN 100 PEOPLE WERE KILLED.

I EQUATE IT TO AN ENVIRONMENTAL HOLOCAUST.

WE CHARTERED A BOAT TO GET THERE WHERE HOME AFTER HOME WAS DESTROYED, BUSINESS AFTER BUSINESS.

IN THE IMMEDIATE AFTERMATH, WE LISTENED TO LOCAL LEADERS AND THEY DESCRIBED THIS FIRE AS AN EXPLOSION.

IT WAS LIKE A BOMB GOING OFF.

THE IMPLICATION BEING THERE WAS NO TIME TO TAKE ACTION.

THERE WAS, AS WE LEARNED, A NEARLY DECADE-LONG FUSE THAT COULD HAVE BEEN PUT OUT.

SCIENTISTS ON THE ISLAND TEN YEARS EARLIER IN 2014 CAME OUT WITH A REPORT THAT SAID THE WARMING CLIMATE HAD INCREASED THE VULNERABILITY OF WILDFIRES THERE ON MAUI.

THEY RECOMMENDED EFFORTS.

UNFORTUNATELY, THAT REPORT WAS FILED AWAY.

ACTION WAS NOT TAKEN IN TIME.

IN THE DESTRUCTION WE WITNESSED FIRSTHAND, THERE WAS THIS HOME WITH THE RED ROOF.

THE HOMEOWNERS, PRIOR TO THIS FIRE, HAD UPDATED THAT HOME, IMPLEMENTING THE SCIENTIFIC REMEDIES, REMOVING BUSHES AND TREES AND PUTTING A METAL RED ROOF ON TOP OF THE HOUSE.

WHICH QUALIFIED FOR TAX CREDITS AND REDUCED THE INSURANCE COST.

UNFORTUNATELY, EVERY OTHER HOME IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD WAS DESTROYED.

ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WE SEE EXAMPLES OF OTHER HOMES WITH THE RED ROOF THAT HAVE SURVIVED OTHER STORMS BY OTHER NAMES.

THE MESSAGE HERE, PEOPLE AS INDIVIDUALS HAVE THE POWER TO PROTECT THEIR PROPERTIES.

AS INDIVIDUAL POWER TO PROTECT COMMUNITIES, BUILD MORE RESILIENT COMMUNITIES.

>> I'M SURE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO APPROACH YOU, AND THEY ARE AUTOMATICALLY PREDISPOSED TO THINK THAT, YOU HAVE A BIAS, YOU ARE MAINSTREAM MEDIA, YOU WILL TALK ABOUT CLIMATE STUFF.

THERE'S CLIMATE DENIAL AND CLIMATE SCIENCE DENIAL OUT THERE.

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH IT?

>> I THINK DENIAL STEMS FROM A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING THE CLIMATE SCIENCE.

CLIMATE CHANGE CAN BE OVERWHELMING.

PEOPLE THAT ARE IMPACTED BY EXTREME WEATHER, THEIR EYES ARE IMMEDIATELY OPENED.

THEY SEE THINGS AND THEY SEE TRENDS THAT BEFOREHAND THEY MAY NOT HAVE BEEN OPEN TO RECEIVING.

THEIR IMAGINATIONS FAILED TO UNDERSTAND AND IMAGINE A WORLD WHERE THEY COULD LOSE THEIR HOMES.

I THINK MORE AND MORE AS I TALK TO PEOPLE ON THE FRONT LINES, ESPECIALLY THOSE IMPACTED BY EXTREME WEATHER, THEY RECOGNIZE THE WEATHER IS CHANGING, ALL OF THEM.

MANY PEOPLE I HAVE SPOKEN WITH NEVER EVEN CONSIDERED CLIMATE CHANGE AS A THREAT UNTIL THEY SAW IT VISUALIZED AND IN ACTION IN EXTREME WEATHER.

I TRY TO POINT OUT WHENEVER I'M IN THE FIELD, I TRY NOT TO HIT HOME CLIMATE CHANGE TO THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE OFTEN GOING THROUGH THE WORST MOMENTS OF THEIR LIVES, BUT THEY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, THE WEATHER IS NO LONGER WHAT IT USED TO BE.

THEY CAN'T JUST REBUILD BUSINESS AS USUAL.

THINGS NEED TO CHANGE.

>> YOU ALSO MAKE IT A POINT TO DRAW THIS CONNECTION THAT IT'S NOT JUST HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THAT THERE ARE CLIMATE MIGRANTS WHO TURN INTO CLIMATE REFUGEES AS THEY CROSS BORDERS BECAUSE CONDITIONS BECAME UNLIVABLE WHERE THEY WERE.

THAT HAS A DOMINO AFFECT OF ITS OWN.

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

WE SAW THIS -- IT'S AN EXTREME EXAMPLE.

IN SYRIA, I WAS THERE COVERING THE CIVIL WAR AT THAT POINT TEN YEARS IN.

THAT WAR HAD ITS ROOTS IN A DROUGHT.

BACK IN 2006, YOU HAD FARMERS IN THE COUNTRY WARNING THAT WITHOUT WATER THERE WAS CROP FAILURE AND THERE WOULD BE A MASS MIGRATION.

ACTION WASN'T TAKEN.

THAT UNFOLDED AS MORE AND MORE PEOPLE FROM RURAL AREAS MOVED INTO URBAN AREAS.

THERE WAS A CONFLICT, WHICH LED TO PROTESTS, WHICH LED TO THE GOVERNMENT RESPONDING IN VIOLENCE WHICH INITIALLY SPARKED THIS NOT JUST PROTEST BUT THE UPRISING THAT LET TO THE CIVIL WAR AND GAVE WAY TO GROUPS LIKE I.S.I.S.

CLOSER TO HOME, WE SEE SITUATIONS LIKE THAT UNFOLDING AS WELL.

ON THE BORDER WITH MEXICO, A NUMBER OF THE MIGRANTS THAT ARE COMING THROUGH -- WE ARE TALKING MILLIONS EVERY YEAR -- ARE COMING FROM AREAS THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTED BY HISTORIC STORMS, HISTORIC DROUGHTS, AND CROP FAILURE.

WE WILL START TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF THIS WHILE SYRIA IS AN EXTREME EXAMPLE.

IT'S SOMETHING WE ARE STARTING TO SEE MORE AND MORE OF IN THE U.S. 2.5 MILLION PEOPLE FORCED FROM THEIR HOMES LAST YEAR BECAUSE OF EXTREME WEATHER IS A DAUNTING NUMBER.

UNFORTUNATELY, WITH THE WAY THAT OUR WEATHER IS TRENDING, WE WILL SEE MORE PEOPLE UPROOTED AND MOVING FROM THEIR HOMES, VOLUNTARILY, BUT MOSTLY BY FORCE.

>> WHAT WERE THE HOPEFUL LINES YOU FOUND IN THIS REPORTING?

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN EASY TO RATTLE OFF A LIST OF DISASTERS AND SAY LOOK AT THIS AND THAT.

YOU DO HAVE A THROUGH LINE HERE OF SOLUTIONS THAT ARE WORKING.

WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE HOUSE WITH THE RED ROOF.

WHAT ELSE DID YOU FIND THAT GAVE YOU SOME BIT OF OPTIMISM?

>> THE CALL TO RETURN OUR LAND BACK TO A MORE NATURAL STATE TO ME HAS BEEN VERY POWERFUL TO SEE.

A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF THAT IS THE BEAVER.

HERE IN CALIFORNIA, A RESEARCHER BY THE NAME OF EMILY FAIRFAX FOUND AFTER A MASSIVE WILDFIRE THERE WAS A STRETCH OF LAND, LUSH LAND THAT WAS NOT IMPACTED.

SHE FOUND AT THE CENTER OF THIS WAS A BEAVER DAM THAT HAD BEEN BUILT THAT WAS ABLE TO CONTAIN THE WATER AND BUILD A RESILIENT ECOSYSTEM THERE, A WETLAND THAT WAS ABLE TO RESIST FIRE.

AS A RESULT OF THIS DISCOVERY, MORE AND MORE COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE WEST ARE NOW WELCOMING THE BEAVER, WHICH HISTORICALLY HAS BEEN SEEN AS A NUISANCE CRITTER, BECAUSE THEY CREATED FLOODING THROUGH THEIR DAMS.

I WAS IN UTAH WHERE A RANCHER THAT HAD ERADICATED BEAVERS FROM HIS PROPERTY ASKED FOR THEM TO BE BROUGHT BACK IN.

THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE NOW WHO ARE BUILDING WHAT ARE KNOWN AS ANALOG BEAVER DAMS TO HELP REINTRODUCE BEAVERS TO CREATE MORE RESILIENT ECOSYSTEMS.

TODAY, THAT RANCH HAS A THRIVING, LUSH ECOSYSTEM BECAUSE OF TWO BEAVERS THAT THEY BROUGHT IN.

THESE ARE ANIMALS THAT ARE WORKING FREE OF CHARGE AND ARE HELPING RESTORE COMMUNITIES AND AN ECOSYSTEM IN A WAY THAT EVEN ENGINEERING AND ALL THE MONEY WE HAVE PERHAPS CAN'T DO NEARLY AS WELL.

>> WHERE DO YOU SEE THIS KIND OF HAPPENING GENERATIONALLY IN HOW PEOPLE PERCEIVE THE THREAT OF THE DISRUPTIONS THAT THE CLIMATE IS GOING TO BRING TO US?

>> YOUNG PEOPLE ARE LEADING THE CHARGE AND ARE MORE RECEPTIVE TO THE INFORMATION.

I THINK THE MESSAGE THAT THEY SEND TO ALL OF US IS WE ALL NEED TO BE RECEPTIVE TO THE INFORMATION.

AS I TRAVEL FROM COMMUNITY TO COMMUNITY, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THEIR POLITICS ARE, THESE ARE PEOPLE THAT AFTER A STORM, THEY ALL DO WAKE UP TO THE REALITIES THEY FACE.

I THINK MORE AND MORE IT'S IMPORTANT WE DO LISTEN TO THE RESEARCH, WE DO LISTEN TO SURVIVORS, WE LISTEN TO THE NEXT GENERATION WHO WILL INHERIT THIS EARTH AND WE TAKE STEPS TO BUILD BACK SAFER AND TO UPDATE OUR COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IN HARM'S WAY.

THERE'S THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE DEAL, WHICH OFFER BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING TO HELP COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

BUT YOU DON'T HAVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT GOING AND KNOCKING ON DOORS AT EACH TOWN SAYING, TAKE THIS MONEY.

LOCAL LEADERS NEED TO LISTEN AND THEY IMMEDIATE TO LISTEN TO THEIR COMMUNITIES AND THEY NEED TO HELP GET ACCESS TO THAT FUNDING.

GRANTS ARE AVAILABLE.

BUT IT'S UP TO EACH COMMUNITY TO IDENTIFY THE RISKS AND THEN TO APPLY FOR THOSE GRANTS.

I THINK THE FIRST STEP IS LISTENING.

OFTEN, LISTENING TO THE NEXT GENERATION WHICH HAS BEEN MORE VOCAL THAN MOST.

>> AUTHOR OF "BEFORE IT'S GONE" JONATHAN VIGLIOTTI, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.