Discussing Diminishing Trust in the UK’s Government

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: What, for you, stands out at the biggest issue and do you think that Dominic Cummings will survive this?

ANNA SOUBRY, FORMER BRITISH CONSERVATIVE MP, FORMER U.K. HEALTH MINISTER: I don’t know if he’s going to survive. That (INAUDIBLE) is true. I think if enough Conservative MPs start to call for his resignation and we get a new name (INAUDIBLE) it seems, you know, the moment we have not got to that tipping point where he is in serious trouble. But who knows? That could change. I think the real problem here is that — sorry. Go on. Sorry.

AMANPOUR: No, no. Go ahead. The real problem?

SOUBRY: I was going to say the real problem here is that, you know, when you’re in the middle of a huge national emergency, which is all about health, you have to have a government that’s competent and commands the trust of the people because you’re going to be giving out really powerful messages and people have got to get that message, agree to it and abide by the rules. And this break down in trust is profound and really concerning. And as a second issue, I think it does show how, I’m afraid to say, lying and arrogance is at the heart of people like Cummings and equally, I’m sorry to have to say, because he’s the prime minister of this country and we all want to be together, Boris Johnson, as well.

AMANPOUR: Well, so, let me ask you why then you and Mark Landler think that Boris Johnson is — seems to be spending a huge amount of political capital on defending this and not taking it as seriously as people apparently wish he would. Because here are the facts. A YouGov poll released today says that 71 percent of those polled thinks Dominic Cummings did break the lockdown and 59 percent think he should resign. And furthermore, it gets pretty bad for Boris Johnson because the new ComRes poll released this morning puts Johnson’s approval rating at minus 1 percent. It was at plus 19 percent four days ago and the overall approval is dropping 16 points per day. I mean, let me go to you, Mark, because you have been writing about it and there’s, you know, certain echoes with how Donald Trump also deals with these kinds of issues. How do you see it? What do you think is the biggest issue?

MARK LANDLER, LONDON BUREAU CHIEF, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, I think the only reason that the Prime Minister Johnson would stick by someone at such an obvious high political cost is if he really viewed him as an indispensable part of the government, and that has very much fascinated me. We know he was the architect of the Vote Leave campaign. We know he was the architect of the Get Brexit Done slogan that brought Boris Johnson his election victory. It’s now becoming apparent that Dominic Cummings is also to the extent that Boris Johnson has any agenda, he is really the mastermind of that agenda.