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> HELLO, EVERYONE.
AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' FROM HANOI.
HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
FACE TO FACE AGAIN AS TRUMP AND KIM KICK OFF THEIR SECOND NUCLEAR SUMMIT IN HANOI, THE FORMER U.S. POINT MAN ON NORTH KOREA JOINS ME.
ARE WE IN FOR A SHOW PIECE OR A GENUINE BREAKTHROUGH.
THE SPLIT SCREEN FEATURES EXPLOSIVE TESTIMONY AGAINST THE PRESIDENT.S FORMER LAWYER TELLSS THAT TRUMP IS A CON MAN AND A RACIST.
I WILL TALK TO FILMMAKER AND HISTORIAN KEN BURNS AND A TOP FORMER VIETNAMESE DIPLOMAT ON WHAT THIS MEANS DECADES AFTER THE VIETNAM WAR.
PLUS, THE COMEDIAN BEHIND HIT SHOWS LIKE 'SEINFELD,' LARRY CHARLES TALKS TO WALTER ISAACSON.
♪♪♪♪♪
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN THE VIETNAMESE CAPITAL HANOI FOR SPECIAL COVERAGE OF THE SUMMIT HERE BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE NORTH KOREAN LEADER, KIM JONG-UN.
TWO REMARKABLE SITUATIONS FACE THE PRESIDENT RIGHT NOW.
THIS HIGH STAKES NUCLEAR DIPLOMACY WHILE BOMBSHELL TESTIMONY AGAINST THE PRESIDENT UNFOLDS IN WASHINGTON AT THE VERY SAME TIME.
IT WAS ALL SMILES AND HANDSHAKES HERE BETWEEN THE PRESIDENT AND KIM JONG-UN BEFORE THE TWO SETTLED DOWN TO AN INTIMATE DINNER.
WHILE ON CAPITOL HILL, THE PRESIDENT'S FORMER PERSONAL LAWYER AND FIXER MICHAEL COHEN, AHEAD OF HIS OWN PRISON TERM, APOLOGIZED FOR LYING TO CONGRESS AND COVERING UP FOR TRUMP.
HE CALLED THE PRESIDENT A RACIST, A CON MAN AND A CHEAT.
WE WILL HAVE MORE ON THAT TESTIMONY IN A MOMENT.
FIRST, ALL OF THIS WAS ON TRUMP AND KIM JONG-UN'S MINDS AS THEY MET AND SHOOK HANDS HERE IN COMMITTED THIS CRIME.
HANOI.
TAKE A LISTEN.
MR. TRUMP SAYS HE IS OPTIMISTIC ABOUT SEALING A DEAL WITH KIM, CITING THEIR PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP.
I THOUGHT THE FIRST SUMMIT WAS A GREAT SUCCESS.
I THINK THIS ONE HOPEFULLY WILL BE EQUAL OR GREATER THAN THE FIRST.
WE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS.
I THIS THE BIGGEST PROGRESS WAS OUR RELATIONSHIP IS REALLY A GOOD ONE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS WITH TRUMP'S FORMER TOP NEGOTIATOR WITH NORTH KOREA, JOSEPH JUNG.
WE HAVE BEEN HERE BEFORE.
WE TALKED THROUGH THE FIRST SUMMIT IN SINGAPORE.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, THE PRESIDENT SAYS HE THINKS EQUAL OR BIGGER, GREATER THINGS CAN COME OUT OF THIS ONE.
DO YOU AGREE?
I THINK EXPECTATIONS CERTAINLY ARE VERY HIGH.
IN SINGAPORE, WHAT WE SAW WAS LAYING THE FOUNDATION.
WHETHER YOU AGREED WITH THOSE ORDER OF FOUNDATION OR NOT, WE SAW THEM.
NOTHING HAS HAPPENED IN BETWEEN SINGAPORE AND NOW.
TO REALLY GET TO THE UNDERLYING ISSUES, WHICH IS, OF COURSE, DENUCLEARIZATION AS WELL ASACE . SO HERE I DO HOPE TOMORROW WHEN THEY MEET THEY WILL GET SOME RESULT, SOME CONCRETE DETAILS SO THAT THEY CAN SAY THEY HAVE FOLLOWED UP, THE PROCESS IS SECURE.
LET US TALK ABOUT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM.
IT REALLY IS.
WE UNDERSTAND THE PRESIDENT HAD A SHORTENED DINNER.
HE WANTS TO WATCH THE MICHAEL COHEN TESTIMONY WE ASSUME, FROM HIS HOTEL ROOM NOT FAR FROM WHERE WE ARE SITTING NOW.
FROM HIS PERSPECTIVE, YOU KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE TO DEAL WITH TOUGH OPPONENTS.
WHAT'S GOING THROUGH THE PRESIDENT'S MIND AS HE IS KIND OF DISTRACTED, THE WHOLE WORLD, INCLUDING KIM JONG-UN, CAN SEE THE POLITICAL DRAMA UNFOLDING IN REAL TIME ON CAPITOL HILL?
THIS IS COMPLETELY UNUSUAL SITUATION AS I'M SURE YOU CAN UNDERSTAND.
I WOULD IMAGINE THIS IS INCREDIBLY DISTRACTING, NOT JUST FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP, BUT EVERYONE ELSE IN THE ROOM.
EVERYONE ELSE IN THE TEAM.
YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE IN SUCH A TEAM, YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH WEEKS AND MONTHS OF WORK.
YOU COME HERE DAYS IN ADVANCE TO PREPARE PAPERS, TO PREPARE OPTIONS.
AND THERE ARE A LOT OF PAPERS TO GO THROUGH.
IS HE GOING TO GO THROUGH THEM?
WHAT IS ON HIS MIND?
IF YOU WANT TO TALK THROUGH ALL THE QUESTIONS THAT WOULD ARISE, ALL THE OPTIONS, WHAT'S THE OTHER GUY THINKING.
YOU WONDER, ARE WE GETTING THROUGH THIS?
MOST OF THE POINT -- SOME MIGHT SAY COULD BE A POTENTIAL WOULD THE PRESIDENT BE MORE EAGER TO COME AWAY WITH SOME KIND OF WIN HERE TO TRY TO NEUTRALIZE WHAT'S HAPPENING BACK HOME?
I THINK THAT'S THE POLITICAL REALITY.
I THINK THE TIMING IS SUCH AND THE STAKES ARE SO BIG, HE MUST FEEL HE HAS TO COME OUT OF HERE WITH SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO, EXCUSE THE PUN, TRUMP WHAT'S HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON.
AND THAT'S A TOUGH TASK.
ARE YOU WORRIED THAT HE MIGHT BE TEMPTED TO, I DON'T KNOW, PUT THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE, SO TO SPEAK, AND SAY YES TO SOMETHING THAT MAY NOT BE THE RIGHT OR WISE THING TO SAY YES TO RIGHT NOW?
I THINK SO.
DOCTORS HAVE HIPPOCRATIC ONLY, FIRST, DO NO HARM.
YOU WORRY ABOUT THAT FIRST MOVE.
FOR EXAMPLE, UNKNOWN MOVE.
LAST TIME IN SINGAPORE, WE SAW COMMITTED TH THE PRESIDENT GIVE AWAY WHAT I THOUGHT A VERY VALUABLE CARD.
THE JOINT EXERCISE BETWEEN U.S.
AND SOUTH KOREA.
IT WAS A COMPLETE SURPRISE TO THE SOUTH KOREANS AND THE MILITARY AND HIS STAFF NEARBY.
WE DON'T WANT SOMETHING LIKE THAT, FOR EXAMPLE.
WITHDRAWING TROOPS FROM SOUTH KOREA, EVEN REDUCTION OF TROOPS FROM SOUTH KOREA, OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
YOU KNOW?
DO NO HARM.
THAT'S GOT TO BE THE FIRST RULE.
WHAT ABOUT KIM JONG-UN?
HE OBVIOUSLY IS HOPING THAT DO HARM WILL BE THE MANTRA.
CLEARLY, WHAT HE WANTS TO SEE IS SOMETHING BENEFICIAL TO HIM.
I SAW KIM JONG-UN SMILING AND LAUGHING WHEN THE REPORTER ASKED PRESIDENT TRUMP ABOUT MICHAEL COHEN.
YOU COULD SEE THAT KIM UNDERSTOOD AND HE LAUGHED OUT WHAT IS GOING THROUGH HIS MIND AND THAT OF THE NORTH KOREAN THAT'S WHAT THEY A
THEY FOLLOW THESE ISSUES SO I MEAN, LET ME GIVE YOU MY OWN EXPERIENCE.
IT WAS ABOUT DECEMBER 2017 WHEN REALLY A LOT OF BAD STUFF WAS STILL GOING AROUND.
I WAS WORKING FOR REX TILLER SON.
SECRETARY OF STATE AT THE TIME.
I WAS TRYING TO GET A MEETING FOR HIM TO MEET WITH NORTH KOREAN COUNTERPART.
I CALLED UP MY CONTACTS.
THEY SAID, WE THINK REX IS GOING TO GET FIRED.WE DON'T WANT TO S.
THEY FOLLOW THESE ISSUES.
THEY KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
BELIEVE ME, THEY WATCH YOU.
THEY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.
DO THEY THINK THEN -- ARE WE TO BELIEVE THAT KIM JONG-UN MAY BE CALCULATING THE LENGTH OF TIME THIS PRESIDENT HAS IN
WELL, I THINK OF COURSE THEY KNOW THE ELECTION IS COMING UP.
TYPICALLY, EVEN IN NORMAL COURSE OF ELECTION, THEY REALLY DON'T WANT TO DO ANY BUSINESS DURING . THAT'S TYPICALLY THE CASE.
IN THIS CASE, THAT IS VERY MUCH ON THEIR MIND.
THEY KNOW HOW MUCH POLICIES CAN CHANGE WITH THE CHANGE IN ADMINISTRATION.EY ARE CALCULATIT OF A SOUND BITE FROM A SPEECH MADE BY STEVE BEIGAN.
SOME ARE SAYING POTENTIALLY THEPULLING BACK A LITTLE BIT FROM THE VERY PRINCIPALS THEY HAD SIX, SEVEN MONTHS AGO.
LET'S JUST SAY.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS READY TO END THIS WAR.
IT IS OVER.
IT IS DONE.
WE ARE NOT GOING TO INVADE NORTH KOREA.
WE ARE NOT SEEKING TO TOPPLE THE NORTH KOREAN REGIME.
WE NEED TO ADVANCE OUR DIPLOMACY ALONGSIDE OUR PLANS FOR DENUKIZATION IN A MAN THEY'RE SENDS THAT MESSAGE CLEARLY TO NORTH KOREA AS WELL.
ARE THEY WILLING TO GO THROUGH LONG NEGOTIATIONS IN ORDER TO GET SOMETHING AT THE END?
ARE THEY LOOKING FOR A BIG SET PIECE RIGHT NOW?
I THINK WE HAVE SEEN THE ADMINISTRATION LOWER THE BAR.
THAT'S WHAT THEY ARE UP THERE TO THEY REALLY REALIZE BY NOW, QUICK, COMPLETE DENUCLEARIZATION IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
IF THAT IS THE CASE THAT THEY ARE GETTING REALISTIC, I THINK THAT'S GOOD NEWS.
I QUITE HONESTLY THINK IT'S A GOOD NEWS.
YOU KNOW, IT'S BOGGLES MY MIND WHEN YOU SAY THAT.
I HAVE HEARD THAT FROM NEGOTIATORS FROM OTHER ADMINISTRATIONS, THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.THINK THAT THEREE DENUCLEARIZATION ANY TIME SOON.
THAT, WE WERE TOLD, IS THE PROCESS, NOT TO MENTION, A DECLARATION ABOUT WHAT THEYH THN US.
LET'S BE REALISTIC.
THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH THIS PROGRAM.
THIS PROGRAM HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE SINCE 1968.
THAT IS HOW OLD IT IS.
KIM JONG-UN BELIEVES HE WOULD BE DEAD, LIKE GADHAFI OR HUSSEIN, IF HE DIDN'T HAVE NUCLEAR WPZ.
WHY WOULD HE GIVE THEM UP NOW?
KEEP NUCLEAR WEAPONS WHILE OPENING HIS ECONOMY.
HE IS TRYING TO HAVE BOTH WAYS.
I THINK WHAT HE WANTS TO BE IS ANOTHER PAKISTAN.
ANOTHER PAKISTAN, WHICH MEANS TO HAVE THESE NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
YES.
BY THE WAY, YOU JUST MENTIONED THAT.
I NEED TO ASK ONE LAST QUESTION.
RIGHT NOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN INCREASING STANDOFF BETWEEN PAKISTAN AND INDIA.
THIS IS A REAL LIFE SITUATION.
HOW DO WE THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE RESOLVED?
WELL, I WOULD HOPE GIVEN THEIR NUCLEAR DETERRENTS AGAINST PREVAIL.ER, CALMER MINDS WILL I THINK FOR NORTH KOREA, THAT IS THE CASE.
THEY WANT TO ASSURE REGIME SURVIVAL, SURVIVAL OF THEMSELF AND THEY STILL SEE UNITED STATES AS SOUTH KOREA AS THREAT.
I REALLY THINK IT IS UNREALISTIC TO EXPECT ANY TIME SOON THEY ARE GOING TO GIVE THEM UP COMPLETELY.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE CANNOTKE . WE CAN LIMIT THEIR PROGRAM.
DESTROY SOME FACILITIES.
AND THOSE ARE THE OPENINGS WEG . WE HAV A PRESIDENT THAT WILL DELEGATE THIS WHO WILL MEET VERY OFTEN TO GET SOME PROCESS SO THAT, AGAIN, WHATEVER HAPPENS NEXT YEAR, THIS PROCESS IS OPENING, STAYS ALIVE.
WE WILL DISCUSS THAT ONCE WE SEE THE DECLARATION AFTER THE SUMMIT TOMORROW.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
THANK YOU.
> NOW TO THAT LEGAL STORM, THE PRESIDENT IS FACING IN WASHINGTON.
HIS FORMER ATTORNEY, MICHAEL COHEN, GIVES PUBLIC TESTIMONY.
DISCUSSING FOR FIRST TIME, THE ALLEGED ROLE OF THE PRESIDENT IN SOME OF THE CRIMES COHEN PLEADED GUILTY TO LAST YEAR.
NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS DID I IMAGINE WHEN I ACCEPTED A JOB IN 2007 TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP THAT HE WOULD ONE DAY RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY, TO LAUNCH A CAMPAIGN ON A PLATFORM OF HATE AND INTOLERANCE AND ACTIVELY WIN.
I REGRET THE DAY I SAID YES TO MR. TRUMP.
I REGRET ALL THE HELP AND SUPPORT I GAVE HIM ALONG THE WAY.
WHAT WILL THIS ACTUALLY MEAN FOR THE PRESIDENT?
THE FORMER FEDERAL AND STATE PROSECUTOR IS FOLLOWING THIS STORY AND HE IS JOINING ME FROM WASHINGTON RIGHT NOW.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
I'M SITTING HERE IN VIETNAM IN HANOI AND NOT VERY FAR AWAY THE PRESIDENT IS ALSO OBVIOUSLYF TH.
IT KIND OF BOGGLES MY MIND TRYING TO THINK WHAT MUST BE GOING THROUGH HIS MIND.
AS YOU HEARD US PUT IT IN CONTEXT OF A VERY IMPORTANT SUMMIT ON NUCLEAR DISARMAMENT IS UNDERWAY.
TO THAT END, WHAT DO YOU THINK -- HOW DO YOU THINK MICHAEL COHEN WAS AS A WITNESS THERE BEFORE CONGRESS?
I THINK MICHAEL COHEN IS DOING A DECENT JOB.
HE IS ABOUT A B MINUS SO FAR.
I PUT A LOT OF COOPERATING WITNESSES ON THE STAND IN MY DAY.
THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON.
THE FIRST ONE IS CORROBORATION.
ARE THEY BACKED UP?
ARE THEY BACKED UP BY INDEPENDENT EVIDENCE, HARD DOCUMENTS, BY RECORDINGS, THAT KIND OF THING?
HE BROUGHT A LOT OF THAT WITH HIM.
IT ENHANCED HIS CREDIBILITY.
THE FACT HE IS ABLE TO POINT TO SIGNED CHECKS, TO OTHER DOCUMENTS.
I THINK THAT'S GONE A LONG WAY TOWARDS HIS CREDIBILITY.
LOOK FOR THE DEMEANOR.
COHEN HAS BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A MIXED BAG.
I WANT TO SEE OUT OF MY COOPERATING WITNESSES WAS GENUINE CONTRITION.
NOT OVERDOING IT.
YOU DON'T WANT SOMEONE WHO IS DO.
COMBATIVE.
YOU WANT SOMEONE WILLING TO OWN UP TO THE PRIME CRIMES.
COHEN HAS DONE SOME OF THAT.
AT TIMES, HE LOST DISCIPLINE AS WELL.
SHOULD THE PRESIDENT BE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT HE IS HEARING OR IS IT NOTHING NEW, SO TO SPEAK?
I THINK THERE'S QUITE A BIT NEW HERE.
I THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD BE AWFULLY CONCERNED.
JUST TO LIST A FEW THINGS.
THE HUSH MONEY PAYMENTS MADE WHICH POTENTIALLY COULD BE CAMPAIGN FINANCE VIOLATIONS.
MICHAEL COHEN PLED GUILTY TO NOSE CRIMES.
HE IMPLICATED THE PRESIDENT.
THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AGREED THAT INDIVIDUAL ONE, THE PRESIDENT, WAS INVOLVED.
NOW MICHAEL COHEN SHOWS UP WITH SIGNED CHECKS FROM THE PRESIDENT IN 2017 WHEN THE PRESIDENT WAS IN OFFICE.
THAT IS A VERY STRONG CASE.
THERE'S ALSO BEEN SOME NEW DEVELOPMENTS.WE LEARNED, FOR EXM MICHAEL COHEN IF HE IS TO BE CREDITED, THAT THE PRESIDENT LEARNED EARLY ON THAT ROGER STONE WAS COORDINATING WITH WIKILEAKS ON THE DUMPS OF HACKED E-MAILS.
HE DOESN'T HAVE A TAPE OF THAT OR A DOCUMENT.
IT'S CORROBORATED BY SOME OF THE OTHER FACTS WE KNOW, INCLUDING THE FACT THAT THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE VARIOUS FALSE STATEMENTS ABOUT WHEN HE KNEW AND HOW HE FOUND OUT.
THAT'S ANOTHER NEW DEVELOPMENT.
THE OTHER, I THINK, BIG PIECE OF NEWS IS MICHAEL COHEN IS STILL WORKING WITH THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
HE WAS ASKED A QUESTION AND HE SAID, I AM STILL IN CONTINUAL CONTACT WITH THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ON VARIOUS ONGOING INVESTIGATIONS.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE A BIG CONCERN TO NOT JUST THE PRESIDENT BUT ALSO TO THOSE AROUND HIM.
FLESH THAT OUT A LITTLE BIT.
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT POSES A BIGGER THREAT TO THE PRESIDENT AND OTHERS AROUND HIM THAN MUELLER FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.
MUELLER IS ON A CLOCK OF SOME SORT.ERE'S BEEN REPORTING THAT E IS IN THE CLOSING PHASES.
HE IS GETTING CLOSE TO WRAPPING UP.
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT HAS NO TIME CLOCK.
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT CAN TAKE WHATEVER TIME IT NEEDS.
ROBERT MUELLER IS CONSTRAINED IN HIS MANDATE.
HE WAS APPOINTED TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFEING WITH THE WE KNOW THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT SERVED A BROAD SUBPOENA ON THE INAUGURAL COMMITTEE, WHICH COULD GET INTO A LOT OF CRIMES.
THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT IS DIGGING DEEP INTO THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION.SO I THINK THAT SH- DOES POSE A THREAT TO THE PRESIDENT.THE OTHER THING I WOUY ABOUT THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT HAVING WORKED THERE, THERE IS A REAL CULTURE OF INDEPENDENCE AND I WAS RAISED AS A PROSECUTOR THAT YOU ALWAYS SHOOT FOR THE TOP.
IF YOU CAN PUT TOGETHER THE PROOF, YOU HAVE NO FEAR OR FAVOR REGARDLESS OF SOMEONE'S POLITICAL AFFILIATION OR POWER.
THE ETHIC IS, YOU TRY TO TAKE DOWN THE PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST FOR MISCONDUCT.A PROVABLE WAY
DOES IT STAND OUT TO YOU THAT WHEN HE WAS ASKED A DIRECT QUESTION BY ONE OF THE CONGRESS PEOPLE, COHEN REPLIED THAT HE COULD NOT ANSWER, HE HAD NO EVIDENCE ABOUT COLLUSION IN THE RUSSIAN AFFAIR, IN THE TO SWING THE ELECTION IF HIS FAVOR.
I THINK THAT'S AN INDICATOR OF CREDIBILITY FROM MICHAEL COHEN.
THERE HAVE BEEN OPPORTUNITIES IF HE WAS LYING WHERE HE COULD HAVE TOLD A VERY NEAT LITTLE STORY.
YES, I KNOW THE PRESIDENT TOLD ME THAT HE HAD SPOKEN WITH PEOPLE IN RUSSIA AND HE WAS LEAKING FORWARD TO THEIR ELECTION ASSISTANCE.
COHEN SAID, THESE ARE THINGS I HEARD DIRECTLY.
THEN THESE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT I'M SORT OF READING INTO WHAT I KNEW.
THAT'S AN IMPORTANT DISTINCTION.
IT SHOWS HE IS BEING CAREFUL.
THIS TERM COLLUSION IS IMPORTANT.
COLLUSION IS NOT A LEGAL TERM.
IT DOES NOT APPEAR IN OUR FEDERAL STATUTES ANYWHERE EXCEPT IN CERTAIN ANTITRUST SETTINGS, WHICH IS NOT APPLICABLE HERE.
COLLUSION IS A TERM THAT'S BEEN DEVELOPED BY THE PRESIDENT AND RUDY GIULIANI AND THEIR HANDLERS.S DANGEROUS IS IT'S SUBJECTIVE.THE BAR CAN BE RAISE.
I THINK WE HAVE SEEN IT RAISED OVER AND OVER.
THE OPERATIVE TERM IS I THINK IF MICHAEL COHEN'S TESTIMONY IS TAKEN AS TRUE BY A FACT FINDER, HYPOTHETICALLY A JURY, POTENTIALLY SOME DAY CONGRESS, THEN YOU SEE SEVERAL CONSPIRACIES THAT HE HAS IMPLICATED THE PRESIDENT IN.
FINALLY, YOU KNOW, MICHAEL COHEN WAS UNDER FIERCE ATTACK BY THE REPUBLICANS WHO WERE TRYING TO DISCREDIT HIM, REPRESENTATIVE JORDAN, THE RANKING MEMBER AND OTHERS, JUST KEPT CALLING HIM A LIAR HIMSELF, KEPT REPEATING THAT HE WAS THERE BECAUSE HE HAD LIED TO CONGRESS AND THIS WAS -- THIS IS THE CONTEXT TO ALL OF THIS.
COHEN KEPT SAYING, IN THE END, I'M OWNING MY MISTAKES, I APOLOGIZE, I'M GOING TO PRISON.
HOW HEAVY A BODY BLOW DO YOU THINK THE REPUBLICANS TRYING TO DISCREDIT HIM SCORED AGAINST HIM?
NOT VERY.
THIS IS RIGHT OUT OF THE PLAYBOOK.THIS IS COOPERATING WIS CROSS-EXAM 101.
I HAVE SEEN DEFENSE LAWYER DOZEN T. ALL DAY LONG A DEFENSE LAWYER CAN SIT THERE AND CROSS-EXAMINE ON YOU COMMITTED THIS CRIME, YOU COMMITTED THIS CRIME.
AT A CERTAIN POINT, THERE'S DIMINISHING RETURNS.
I HAVEN'T HEARD A SINGLE POINT SCORED CONTESTING THE SUBSTANCE OF WHAT MICHAEL COHEN IS TALKING ABOUT.
I HAVEN'T HEARD A SINGLE POINT SCORED UNDERMINING HIS ACCOUNT OF THE HUSH MONEY PAYMENT, OF WIKILEAKS, OF THE CONSPIRACY TO GIVE FALSE TESTIMONY ABOUT THE MOSCOW PROJECT.
I THINK IT'S WEARING THIN.
I THINK THEY SCORED A POINT OR TWO, BUT I DON'T THINK IT'S SERIOUSLY DAMAGING MICHAEL COHEN'S LONG-TERM CREDIBILITY.
WE WILL WATCH HOW IT ALL PLAYS OUT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US
> AS WE SAID, ALL OF THIS ON CAPITOL HILL IS PLAYING OUT AS THE SUMMIT HERE IN HANOI IS GETTING UNDERWAY.
IT'S ALSO PUTTING THE SPOTLIGHT ON THE HOST COUNTRY VIETNAM, WHICH WAS ONCE FAMOUSLY AT WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES.
NOW, IT'S A BOOMING MARKET ECONOMY UNDER COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT THANKS TO PEACE WITH THE UNITED STATES.
MR. TRUMP DID MEET EARLIER TODAY WITH THE COUNTRY'S PRESIDENT.
HE ALSO MET WITH THE PRIME MINISTER.
THIS WOMAN SERVED AS A DIPLOMAT FOR MORE THAN TWO DECADES.G ME.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
JUST TO SAY, I WONDER WHETHER YOU FEEL A LITTLE SORT OF A DISCONNECT IN THIS MOMENT TO BE REVELING IN THIS ATTENTION ON YOUR COUNTRY WHILE SO MUCH ATTENTION IS ALSO BEING PUT ON PRESIDENT TRUMP IN THE SPLIT SCREENS WITH HIS POLITICAL DRAMAS BACK AT HOME.
THIS IS TODAY'S WORLD.
A WORLD OF CHANGE AND DISRUPTION.
I THINK WE TAKE IN STRIDE.
VIETNAM IS USED TO DEALING WITH DISRUPTION OF ALL SORTS, INCLUDING WAR.
THE GREAT THING IS THAT TODAY IT IS REALLY AS SIMPLE AS PEACE.
THAT'S WHY IT'S SO FITTING THAT IT'S THE SUMMIT, THE U.S. AND NORTH KOREAN SUMMIT SHOULD BE HELD IN VIETNAM.
I'M STRUCK BY THE WAY YOU SAY VIETNAM TAKES THINGS IN STRIDE, INCLUDING THE WAR.
FAMOUSLY, THAT'S WHAT VIETNAM DID.
IT IS SAID TO HAVE RECOVERED SOONER, QUICKER, BETTER FROM THE WAR THAN AMERICA DID.
EVEN THOUGH YOU SUFFERED BY A MASSIVE FACTOR MORE CASUALTIES, MORE DEAD, MORE WOUNDED, MORE DESTRUCTION THAN THE UNITED STATES DID.
TALK FOR A LITTLE BIT, FOR THOSE WHO MAY NOT REMEMBER, HOW DIFFICULT A TIME THIS WAS AND POTENTIALLY, WHO WOULD HAVE KNOWN THAT THIS PEACE COULD HAVE LED TO SUCH PROSPERITY HERE?
I'M AMONG THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT AFTER DECADES, SINCE THE END OF THE WAR, THE PRICE THAT WE HAVE PAID IN TERMS OF MATERIAL AND HUMAN LOSSES TO ME IS NOT AS HEAVY AS, YOU KNOW, INTERNAL DIVISION.
I HAVE SAID IT PUBLICALLY HERE AND THERE AMONG VIETNAMESE.
TO BE VERY FRANK, IF I HAVE SOME GRUDGE TOWARDS THE U.S. STILL, IT IS THAT IT HAS SHOWED THE KIND OF DIVISION.
WE ARE RECOVERING FROM THAT DIVISION AMONG VIETNAMESE.
WHAT'S AT THE HEART THAT WAS DIVISION?
THAT THERE'S A NORTH AND A SOUTH THAT ARE DIFFERENT AND ANTAGONISTIC.
IT GOES BEYOND IDEOLOGY.
NOW IT'S A KIND OF DISTRUST THAT REMAINS WITH A SMALL PORTION OF THE OVERSEAS VIETNAMESEMMUNITY.
FORTUNATELY, THE SECOND, THIRD GENERATION, THEY TAKE THINGS IN THEY WANT TO GO BACK AND HAVE A LOOK FOR THEMSELVES TO SEE THEIR ANCESTRAL LAND AND FIND OPPORTUNITIES, ARE VERY OPEN MINDED.
BUT THERE'S A SMALL CORE THAT I THINK WILL HOLD THE CLOCK OF HISTORY.
IT'S MOVING FORWARD NOW.
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR VIETNAM TO BE SHOWN AS THE HOST OF THIS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT SUMMIT BETWEEN THE LEADER OF THE WORLD'S ONLY SUPERPOWER AND, OF COURSE, YOUR NEIGHBOR IN NORTH KOREA?
I THINK AFTER SO MANY DECADES OF WAR, IT IS TIME FOR VIETNAM TO EARN AND TO TAKE ITS PLACE IN THE SUN.
THE SUN HERE MEANING GLOBAL STATION, THE COMMUNITY OF NATIONS.
I MY SAW OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES, VIETNAM HAS WORKED HARD AND CLEAR EYED AND VERY PRAGMATIC AND REALISTIC IN THE WAY IT HAS AFFECTED ITS REGIONAL AND INTERNATIONAL INTEGRATION.
ALL THE WHILE AND UNTIL THIS DAY AT THE HEART OF THE VIETNAM'S FOREIGN POLICY, THERE IS THE NOTION OF BALANCE, REALISM, KNOWING HOW TO MANAGE THE NATIONAL INTEREST WITH THE BROADER INTEREST OF THE REGION, OF INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS.
IT KNOWS HOW TO CONTRIBUTE TO FINDING COMPROMISE.
IT'S BEEN THROUGH SO MANY LONG AND ARDUOUS NEGOTIATIONS.
YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SIGNED A DEAL, BOEING HAS SIGNED A DEAL HERE, PRESIDENT TRUMP, THIS IS YOUR -- WE KNOW PRESIDENT TRUMP VIEWS THIS -- HE SAID THIS PUBLICALLY MANY TIMES.
VIETNAM CAN BE THE TEMPLATE FOR NORTH KOREA.
IF ONLY THEY COME INTO THE COMMUNITY OF NATIONS.
THEY CAN ALSO REMAIN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY WITH A GREAT ECONOMY AND SEE THIS UNBELIEVABLE GROWTH IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.
HOW FAR DO YOU BUY THAT SELLING POINT, THAT SALES JOB?
OF COURSE, IT CAN FLATTER I WOULD BE WARY.
VIETNAM SHOULD NOT COME OUT THERE TRYING TO TEACH LESSONS OR TO SET ITSELF AS A MODEL.
ON OTHER HAND, WE ARE QUITE OPEN AND WE WELCOME EVERYBODY WHO WANTS TO SHARE EXPERIENCES AND TO HAVE A LOOK AT HOW WE HAVE BEEN DOING IT.
IT'S TRUE THAT WE ARE HARD WORKING.
BUT ALSO, INVENTIVE.
IN A SENSE, I PERSONALLY ANYWAY FEEL A BIT UNCOMFORTABLE WHEN WE ARE BEING OVER PRAISED AS A MODEL EXAMPLE FOR ANY OTHER COUNTRY.
THE VIETNAMESE SOMETIMES LIKE TO HEAR PRAISES.
I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP OUR HEADS COOL.
FINALLY, HOW WOULD YOU DESCRIBE VIETNAM'S RELATIONSHIP?
TODAY, IT IS BOTH EXPANDING IN SCOPE AND DIVERSITY AND DEEPENING.
WHEN I SAY DEEPENING, I MEAN THE PEOPLE TO PEOPLE, INDIVIDUAL TO INDIVIDUAL, THE HUMAN RELATIONSHIP IS REALLY GROWING THROUGH EDUCATION, THROUGH TOURISM, THROUGH EXCHANGES OF BUSINESS.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S BECAUSE BOTH SIDES NEED IT.
IN THE NEW REGIONAL CONTEXT IN PARTICULAR.INK AT THE -- BOTTOM, YOU KNOW, RECIPROCAL INTEREST.
FASCINATING.
MADAM AMBASSADOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
MY PLEASURE.
> FOR MANY PEOPLE, THE U.S.
WAR WITH VIETNAM DEFINES EVERYTHING ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO COUNTRIES, DESPITE THE PROGRESS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
IT IS THE SUBJECT OF AN EPIC 18-HOUR DOCUMENTARY BY FILMMAKER KEN BURNS.
TRIES TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT HAPPENED AND THE TREMENDOUS HUMAN COST.
NEW HAMPSHIRE.OINING ME NOW FROM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, KEN BURNS.
THANK YOU.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
YOU MUST BEEN LISTENING TO THE AMAMBASSADOR.
YOU HEARD THE DISCUSSIONS OVER THE NUCLEAR SUMMITRY HERE.
JUST AS YOU LISTEN TO ALL OF THIS, HAVING SPENT HOURS AND HOURS AND MORE THAN TEN YEARS MAKING YOUR EPIC DOCUMENTARY, HOW DO YOU FEEL WATCHING ALL OF THIS TODAY?
THERE'S A BIT OF A DEJA VU.
BECAUSE, OF COURSE, WATERGATE WAS HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, THE END GAME OF VIETNAM, THE END GAME FOR THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE WE HAVE THESE REMARKABLE HEARINGS GOING ON BACK IN WASHINGTON THAT RESEMBLE THAT IN THE EXTREME.
YOU ALSO HAVE A SENSE THAT MAYBE PERHAPS THE BEST ARGUMENT FOR KIM IS THE ALTERNATIVE UNIVERSE THAT VIETNAM REPRESENTS.
AND I KNOW THE AMBASSADOR, SHE WAS INCREDIBLY MODEST AS VIETNAMESE ARE WITH REGARD TO THAT.
BUT HE HAS IN HIS MIND A NEGATIVE TRAJECTORY THAT ENDS WITH GADHAFI'S FATE.
VIETNAM SHOWS THAT IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE A DIFFERENT KIND OF TRAJECTORY.
IN SOME WAYS GIVEN THE POLITICAL PRESSURES ON THE PRESIDENT AND THE ANXIETY THERE AND HERE ABOUT WHAT HE MIGHT GIVE AWAY FOR A FEEL GOOD DEAL, PERHAPS THE BEST THING IS WHERE THIS TOOK PLACE.
WHICH IS VIETNAM, WHICH IS STARTLING IN ITS MODERNNESS AND IN ITS OPENNESS.
IT STILL LET US BE VERY FRANK, A COMMUNIST AND REPRESS RECEIVE COMMUNIST ARE A DREAM.
BUT ONE THAT'S AN IMPORTANT NOT JUST ECONOMIC PARTNER WITH US BUT A STRATEGIC ONE AS WELL AS WE LEAVE THE TPP AND AS WE TRY TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO CHECK CHINESE AMBITION.
THAT TPP WAS THE GREAT BIG PARTNERSHIP THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA AND OTHERS TRIED TO HAVE THE U.S. BE PART OF.
PRESIDENT TRUMP PULLED THEM OUT OF IT.
VIETNAM IS ACTUALLY A REGIONAL POWER IN ITS ECONOMY.
GO BACK TO THE BEGINNING, IF YOU LIKE, AND TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO PEOPLE.
YOU SAW AND YOU HEARD THE AMBASSADOR SAY VIETNAM HAS TAKEN THINGS IN STRIDE.
I WONDER WHETHER WHEN YOU CAME HERE FOR YOUR DOCUMENTARY, THAT STRUCK YOU AS WELL, HOW ALL THOSE VIETNAMESE TALKING TO YOU, ESPECIALLY NORTH VIETNAMESE, OBVIOUSLY, UNDER ATTACK BY THE UNITED STATES, HOW THEIR MEMORIES OF IT ALL SORT OF AFFECTED YOU.
I WANT TO PLAY THIS LITTLE BIT OF A SOUND BITE FROM ONE OF THOSE WHO YOU INTERVIEWED.
THOUSANDS DIED ON TRAIL, FROM STARVATION AND ACCIDENT, FEVER AND SNAKEBITE AND SHEER
YOU TALKED TO OFFICIALS MAKING THE POLICY.
WHAT WAS THE PREDOMINANT TONE OF THESE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN AT WAR WITH THE UNITED STATES FOR SO LONG?
MOST OF THE INTERVIEWS WERE DONE BY MY PARTNERS.
I THINK WE CAN SAY THAT THE VIETNAMESE HAVE ALWAYS TAKEN A LONG VIEW OF EVERYTHING, THE MODESTY THAT THE MADAM AMBASSADOR SHOWED IS PART OF THAT LONG VIEW.
THEY WERE -- THEY HAD ALMOST A CENTURY OF THE FRENCH AND 30 YEARS, IF YOU INCLUDE THE OVERLAP WITH US.
BEFORE THAT, MANY, MANY REGIONAL CONFLICTS WITH THE CHINESE.
SO THEY HAVE ALWAYS BEEN SORT OF FIERCELY NATIONALISTIC.
WE ALWAYS SAW H CHI MINH AS A COMMUNIST.
HE KEPT SAY, DON'T BE DISTRACTED BY THIS.
THE SOVIETS THEMSELVES WERE WORRIED THAT HO CHI MINH WAS MORE OF A NATIONALIST THAN AN INTERNATIONALIST COMMUNIST.
I THINK WHAT YOU FOUND IS THAT THEY ARE REALISTS IN THE MOST THEY KNEW HOW TO DISTINGUISH AT THE TIME OF THE WAR THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES PEOPLE AND ITS GOVERNMENT AND THAT GOVERNMENT'S POLICIES.
THE SOLDIERS ON THE GROUND OFTEN TELL EXACTLY SIMILAR STORIES.
THE RESENTMENT ARE STILL THERE.
I THINK WE'RE PREMATURE IF WE TRY TO SAY THAT THEY HAVE KIND OF FORGOTTEN IT IN A WAY THAT WE HAVE.
LET'S JUST REMEMBER THERE'S 3 MILLION ABSENT PEOPLE THERE.
THAT'S AN AMPUTATED LIMB THAT'S GOING TO BE FELT.
MOTHERS STILL GRIEVING,ANDMOTHE.
PEOPLE STILL LOOKING FOR LOST BODIES.THEY HAVE OVER 300,000 Ms THERE AMONG THE NORTH VIETNAMESE.
THERE'S A WOUND.
THEY HAVE MANAGED TO GO FORWARD.
THEY STAGNATED FOR ALMOST A DECADE FROM '75 AFTER THEIR VICTORY, TO '85, UNTIL THEY EMPLOYED A MORE WESTERN -- WHAT WAS CALLED AN OPENING UP THAT CREATED A MORE PRAGMATIC PICTURE.
WITH NORMALIZATION OF RELATIONS WITH AMERICA, WE SEE THE GREAT STRIDES THAT BOTH OUR COUNTRIES HAVE MADE TOWARDS NOT JUST THE ECONOMIC PARTNERSHIP AS THE AMBASSADOR SUGGESTED BUT THE INTIMATE ONE AS PEOPLE GO BACK, THEY FORGIVE, THEY RECONCILE.
IT'S A DIFFICULT PROCESS ON BOTH SIDES FOR EVERYBODY.
I THINK THAT OUR TENDENCY IS TO KIND OF MAKE A SHORTHAND OF HISTORY.
THIS WAS AN INCREDIBLY BLOODY WAR FOR A LONG TIME.
OUR INVOLVEMENT DATES TO EARLY 1945.
IT ENDS, OF COURSE, IN APRIL OF '75.
THAT'S AN AWFUL LOT OF WATER UNDER OUR BRIDGE AND UNDER THE VIETNAMESE WAR IS THE MOST HISTORY IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE 20th CENTURY.
MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT IN FACT, IT AFFECTED THE UNITED STATES CERTAINLY CUTUCULTURALLY, MORE THAN VIETNAM.
HERE IS A CLIP OF A SERVICEMAN COMING BACK AND THE SHOCK AT THE RECEPTION HE RECEIVED COMING BACK.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO GET UPSET.
YOU ARE PROBABLY GOING TO GET TROUBLE WHEN WE GO OUTSIDE.
I WENT, TROUBLE?
I JUST GOT BACK FROM VIETNAM.
WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?KNEW.
WHEN WE GOT IN HIS CAR TO DRIVE AWAY FROM THE TERMINAL, WE HAD TO WIND OUR WAY THROUGH PROTESTERS THAT WERE POUNDING ON THE CAR WITH THE ENDS OF THEIR SIGNS AND WERE SNARLING AT ME AND POUNDING AT THE WINDOW AND SHOUTING OBSCENITIES AT ME.
THAT WAS MY WELCOME HOME TO AMERICA.
I WAS JUST STUNNED.
I MAY HAVE MISTAKEN AND SAID IT AFFECTED NORTH KOREA.
OBVIOUSLY, I MEANT IT AFFECTED THE UNITED STATES, AMERICA, MORE THAN VIETNAM.
I WANT THOUGHTS GIVEN WHERE WE ARE TODAY.
MANY PEOPLE BELIEVE THIS WAR AND THE CULTUAL AND POLITICAL RIPPING OF THE FABRIC IN THE UNITED STATES SEWED THE SEEDS OF THE POLARIZATION, THE DIVISIONS WITHIN SOCIETY TODAY.
DO YOU REFLECT ON THAT?
YES.
I THINK IT'S VERY ALSO CONVENIENT FOR PEOPLE TO SAY THAT HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF.
IT DOES NOT.
IT NEVER DOES.
MARK TWAIN IS SUPPOSED TO HAVE SAID IT DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF BUT IT RHYMES.
I THINK WE'RE LIVING IN A TIME RIGHT NOW IN WHICH WE SEE THAT A GOOD DEAL OF THE SEEDS OF DIVISION, THIS INABILITY TO TALK TO ONE ANOTHER, WERE SEWN IN THE VIETNAM PERIOD AND CONTINUE PERIODICALLY TO BEAR FRUIT.
THIS IS ALSO ALL OF AMERICAN HISTORY AND ALL OF HUMAN HISTORY.
THE AMBASSADOR GLOSSED OVER THE EXTENT TO WHICH VIETNAM IS TORN BY ITS VARIOUS MEMORIES AND FACTIONS.
I MADE A FILM ON THE CIVIL WAR.
THAT'S WHEN THAT POLARIZATION REACHED THE HEIGHT.
WE LOST 750,000 SCHOLARS OVER THAT DIVISION.
I THINK THIS IS ALWAYS PERCOLATING UNDER THE SURFACE.
EVENTS LIKE THE VIETNAM WAR BRING IT TO THE FORE IN AMERICA.
THESE ARE DIFFICULT WOUNDS.
I THINK WE HAVE TO JUST BE REALISTIC ABOUT IT.
I THINK WE ARE BEING REALISTIC.
PART WHAT HAVE IS SO HOPEFUL ABOUT THIS SUMMIT HAPPENING THERE IS IT REPRESENTS THAT REALISM AND ALSO I THINK A GOOD DEAL OF HOPE.
KEN BURNS, WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AT THIS REALLY IMPORTANT MOMENT FOR VIETNAM AND THE UNITED STATES.
KOREA, WE THINK OF DENUCLEARIZATION, THE SURVIVAL OF THE KIMDYNASTY.
WHAT'S COMEDY LIKE THERE?
IT'S CENTRAL FOR HARRY CHARLES.
HIS NEW SERIES 'LARRY CHARLES, DANGEROUS WORLD OF COMEDY' EXPLORES HOW TO CRACK JOKES IN PLACES LIKE IRAQ, SYRIA AND YEMEN, MAYBE EVEN NORTH KOREA.
HE SAT DOWN WITH US TO TALK ABOUT WHAT HE DISCOVERED.
HERE IS THERE CONVERSATION.
WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
WHAT IN HEAVEN'S NAME POSSESSED YOU TO THINK COULD YOU GO TO WAR ZONES AND HANG AROUND WITH TERRORISTS TO FIND COMEDY?
I AM ALWAYS ON A SEARCH FOR THE THING THAT DOESN'T SEEM TO BE FUNNY THAT COULD BE FUNNY.
I LIKE TO FIND COMEDY IN PLACES WHERE THINGS SHOULD NOT BE REALLY LAUGHED AT.
I NOTICED THAT WHEN TRUMP WAS ELECTED, THAT WE WERE MOVING IN THIS KIND OF ISOLATION DIRECTION. WERE ISOLATING OURSEM THE REST OF THE WORLD.
WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE REST OF THE WORLD.
WE'RE QUITE IGNORANT ABOUT IT.
THE REST OF THE WORLD KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT US.
I THOUGHT, THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING KIND OF CONTRAST, AT THE SAME TIME, I TRAVELED A LOT.
WHEREVER I HAVE GONE, WHATEVER OPPRESSIVE REGIME OR RELIGIOUS GOVERNMENTS I WAS IN, WE CREATED HAVOC AND MAYHEM.
WE GOT TO LEAVE.
WE GOT TO COME HOME TO AMERICA.
WE GOT ACCOLADES AND REWARDS FOR BEING IN THESE PLACES AND DOING WHAT WE WERE DOING.
THERE WERE COMEDIANS THERE WHO WERE LEFT THERE, WHO LIVE THERE.
HOW DO THEY SURVIVE?
I BEGAN TO BE VERY CURIOUS ABOUT I WOULD MEET COMEDIANS IN THESE COUNTRIES WHERE YOU WOULD LEAVE AND THEY HAD TO STAY.
HOW DID THEY DO THEIR COMEDY UNDER AN OPPRESSIVE REGIME, UNDER A DICTATORSHIP?
I DID RESEARCH.
I STARTED TO JUST GOOGLE THE CRAZIEST PLACES I COULD THINK OF AND COMEDY.
I FOUND THERE ARE ALWAYS COMEDIANS THERE.
PEOPLE ARE STILL PRACTICING COMEDY IN THESE PLACES.
TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE LAUGH UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS.
I FELT LIKE I WAS UNIQUELY QUALIFIED TO TALK TO THOSE KIND OF PEOPLE.
YOU ARE UNIQUELY QUALIFIES.
IT WAS A CULMINATION OF A CAREER YOU STARTED IN STANDUP.
WHY WAS THIS THE CULMINATION?
I HAVE DONE SO MANY DIFFERENT THINGS.
I WANT TO IMPACT.
I DON'T WANT TO JUST CREATE FRIVOLOUS, FORGETTABLE ENTERTAINMENT.T WANT TO CREATE SUPERFICIAL THINGS, ESPECIALLY I WANT TO CREATE SOMETHING THAT PROVOKES PEOPLE. IT, THAT I HAVE ALWAYS DONE THAT.
I HAVE DONE IT WITH JUST OUTRAGEOUS THINGS SOMETIMES.
I WANT PEOPLE TO BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND WHAT THEY ARE WATCHING A LITTLE BIT.
I WANT THEM TO CARRY IT WITH THEM AFTER THEY STOP WATCHING IT.
YOU WATCHED STANDUP COMICS AROUND THE WORLD.
DOES EACH COUNTRY HAVE A UNIQUE BRAND OF COMEDY?
ONE THING I DID LEARN WAS THAT WHATEVER COUNTRY I WAS IN, WESTERN COMEDY WAS THE FOUNDATION.
THEY LEARNED ALL THE IDEAS OF MODERN COMEDY FROM WEST HE WERE COMEDY.
EVERYBODY IN THESE COUNTRIES KNOW EDDIE MURPHY, THEY KNOW JERRY SEINFELD.
THEY ARE USING AMERICAN COMEDY AS THEIR ROLE MODEL FOR THEIR COMEDY.BUT THEN THEY ARE TURNINT INTO AN INDIGENOUS PRODUCT.
YOU HAVE THEIR COMMON REFERENCE POINTS LIKE WE HAVE OURS.
IF I SAY, THAT'S LIKE 'THE REAL HOUSEWIVES,' YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.
THEY HAVE THEIR REFERENCE POINT.
THEY TAKE THE COMEDY AND APPLY IT TO THOSE REFERENCE POINTS.
IT MAKES IT UNIQUE AND STILL UNIVERSAL.
IS OPPRESSION SORT OF A KEY TO BRINGING OUT COMEDY?
YOU GREW UP WITH THE GREAT JEWISH COMEDIANS, MEL BROOKS AND WOODY ALLEN.
THERE'S A SENSE OF, OKAY, THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE MORE -- HAVE MORE AUTHORITY THAN US.
IS THAT A KEY TO COMEDY AROUND THE WORLD?
I THINK THAT PEOPLE REACH A POINT IN ALL THE SITUATIONS, IN THE JEWISH AREA OR IN IS A MALL SOMALIA, YOU SEE PEOPLE ON THE BRINK.
PEOPLE STANDING ON A CLIFF.
ARE YOU GOING TO GIVE UP AND SURRENDER?
ARE YOU GOING TO BACK UP, LOOK AROUND AND REALIZE HOW ABSURD IT IS?
PROCESS THAT AS HUMOR.
I SAW THAT THAT WAS A CRUCIAL EQUATION IN ALMOST EVERY COUNTRY I WAS IN.
ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS STRUGGLING WITH WAS SAUDI WOMEN DOING STANDUP.
MAYBE YOU CAN DESCRIBE IT.OW.
THE IDEA CAME ABOUT DOING A COMEDY SHOW.
WHAT REALLY MADE ME WANT TO DO THE SHOW IS THAT I HAVE TOPICS.
I DID MY FIRST EPISODE.
YOU ARE DISCOVERED SITTING AT A BOOK FAIR HAVING COFFEE.
THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I WOR.
NEVER PUBLISHED BEFORE.
SHE PUBLISHED ON FACEBOOK.
WE ARE ALWAYS THE SUBJECT OF MEN'S STANDUP COMEDIANS.
I THINK ALL THROUGH HISTORY, IF WOMEN DID NOT EXIST, STANDUP COMEDY WOULD NOT HAVE EXISTED.
TAKE MY WIFE, PLEASE.
WE TOOK ALL THE THINGS THAT THEY ALWAYS CLAIM THAT WE DO AND WE JUST FIRED BACK.
TELL ME ABOUT THEM.
ONE OF THE MOST INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE WOMEN IN SAUDI ARABIA -- ANOTHER FEMALE COMEDIAN WORE THE VEIL BUT TALKED LIKE SARAH SILVERMAN.
WHAT WAS INTERESTING WAS THAT THEY COULDN'T PERFORM IN THE -- THERE'S A COUPLE STANDUP CLUBS . IT'S FOR MEN ONLY.
WHAT THEY HAVE DONE IS SEIZED UPON SOCIAL MEDIA TO DO THEIR COMEDY.
THEY DO SKETCHES AND STANDUP AND MONOLOGUE ON VIDEO AND PUT IT OUT ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND BYPASS THE STATE MEDIA THAT WAY AND REACH THE AUDIENCE AROUND THE WORLD.
THEY'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT A CRACKDOWN ON SOCIAL MEDIA?
THEY ARE HOPEHOPEFUL.
THEY WERE FEELING OPTIMISTIC.
I SPOKE TO A COMEDIAN THERE KNOWN AS THE SEINFELD OF SAUDI ARABIA WHO WAS ARRESTED AND DISAPPEARED.WIFE, ONE OF THE DRG ACTIVISTS, WAS ARREST AND DISAPPEARED.
TO THE WORLD, THEY PRESENT A PROGRESSIVE FRONT.
BUT THIS IS STILL GOING ON AT THE SAME TIME.
I WAS TRYING TO PRESENT THAT AS WELL.
YOU HAVE THE IRAQI GUY WHO WAS BEING TORTURED AND IS ABLE TO USE COMEDY WITH HIS TORTURERS.
RELATIVELY FAMOUS?
AGAIN, THESE GUYS ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AS WELL AS TELEVISION AND YOUTUBE OR WHATEVER.
THEY ARE REACHING MILLIONS OF IT'S LIKE A CALLING.
A GUY LIKE THIS DOESN'T BECOME A COMEDIAN TO GET A PILOT DEAL OR TO DO A MOVIE OR TO DO A STANDUP TOUR.HE DOES IT TO HEAL IRAQ.
IT'S A CALLING FOR HIM.
WHEN HE WAS A CHILD, HIS FAMILY WAS UNDER SIEGE.
HE WAS THROWN OUT OF THE HOUSE DURING THE SHOCK AND AWE
FOR LISTENING TO --
TO THE BACK STREET BOYS.
HIS DAD WAS A VERY RELIGIOUS MAN.
THOUGHT HE WAS BEING AN INFIDEL.
KICKED HIM OUT OF THE HOUSE DURING THE WAR.
HE WAS A CHILD.
I THINK THAT HE LEARNED SURVIVAL, LEARNED HUMAN COULD HELP HIM SURVIVE.
HE IS THE ONE WHO DID IT WITH HIS TORTURERS, RIGHT?
HE SAW PEOPLE BEING TORTURED AND KILLED AND HURT.
HE MADE A JOKE WITH THE TORTURERS.EY LAUGHED.
MAYBE THAT'S A WAY I CAN KEEP HE KEPT MAKING JOKES.
THEY KEPT LAUGHING.
HE WOULDN'T WIND UP GETTING TORTURED. IT MAKES A HUMAN CONN.
YES.
WHICH IS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO DO AS WELL.
THAT'S WHY I TALKED TO PEOPLE FROM ISIS OR AL SHABAB.
I WANTED TO SEE THE HUMAN FACE, WHICH IS NOT SOMETHING WE SEE VERY MUCH IN THE WESTERN MEDIA.
WE SEE CLAD IN BLACK AND YELLING, DEATH TO AMERICA.
A LOT OF THE GUYS ARE FARMERS THAT FAMILIES WERE KILLED AND THEY WERE FORCED INTO ISIS.
WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO HUMANIZE ISIS?
WHY DID YOU WANT TO TALK TO THEM AND GET THE HUMOR?
I FELT LIKE WE SEE THE END RESULT OF TERRORISM.WE SEE THE . WHAT IF WE BACKED IT UP TO THEIR CHILDHOOD?
WHAT IF OUR KIDS WERE BEING RAISED IN WAR ZONES?
THEIR FAMILIES BEING DESTROYED.
WHAT KIND OF ADULT IS THAT -- IS GOING TO GROW UP FROM THAT ENVIRONMENT?
ARE THEY GOING TO BE ANGRY, HATEFUL?
ARE THEY GOING TO LOOK FOR SOMEONE TO BLAME?
THESE KIDS ARE INNOCENT.
I MEET A LOT OF CHILDREN WHO ARE AS SWEET AND AS BEAUTIFUL AND INNOCENT AS ANY AMERICAN CHILD.
BY THE TIME THEY BECOME TEENAGERS, EVERYTHING IN THEIR THEY HAVE BEEN TRAUMATIZED.
IT TAKES YOU IN A DIFFERENT DIRECTION.
IS THERE AN ELEMENT OF HUMOR THAT'S SUPPOSED TO BE
IF YOU SEE SOME OF MY STUFF, THE ANSWER IS VERY MUCH YES.
I THINK THAT THE -- IT'S SIMILAR TO A HORROR MOVIE IN A WAY.
YOU ARE CRINGING AND RESISTING AND YOU ARE HOLDING BACK AND YOU ARE DENYING AND YOU ARE SUPPRESSING.
THEN WHEN THE LAUGH COMES, IT'S IT'S A LIBERATION.
IT'S CATHARTIC.
SOMETIMES IT CAN BE HEALING.
YOU DID SOME OF THE U.S.
ABOUT HEALING.T CLIP AND TALK
IT TOOK ME THREE YEARS TO GET USED TO MY FACE.
THIS IS ME.
I'M BETTER LOOKING NOW.
GIRLS KNOW THIS.
ONCE YOU GO COOKED, YOU ARE HOOKED.
IT TOOK ME A WHILE.
IT WAS HARD FOR MY KIDS.
I HAD TO MAKE LIGHT OF IT.
I HAD TO BREAK THAT AWKWARDNESS UP FOR ME, TOO.
THE FIRST THING I DID WAS I BOUGHT A FART MACHINE.
IF I CAUGHT SOMEONE STARING AT ME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, I WOULD PUSH THE BUTTON.
EXCUSE ME.
THEIR EYES WOULD LIGHT UP.
WALK AWAY REAL FAST.
ONE OF MY FAVORITES WAS FOUR YEARS AGO, THEY REMADE 'NIGHTMARE ON ELM STREET.'
I WENT TO THE MOVIES.
ON AT THE END. THE LIGHTS CAME SWEET DREAMS, EVERYBODY.
I JOKE AROUND WITH PHYSICAL THERAPY, OCCUPATIONAL THERAPY.
THAT'S HOW I DEALT WITH THE PAIN, HOW I DEALT MENTALLY WITH IT.
I JOKE AROUND.
FOR BOBBY LAUGHTER LITERALLY HURTS.
BUT HE WOULDN'T HAVE IT ANY OTHER WAY.
TELL ME ABOUT BOBBY.
BOBBY IS AN AMAZING GUY.
GOT THROUGH THE FIRST THREE WITH NO PROBLEM.
THEN ABOUT A WEEK INTO THE FOURTH TOUR, HE HAD THIS INCREDIBLE ACCIDENT.
HE WAS THE ONLY ONE THAT SURVIVED.
HE WENT THROUGH ALL THE GUILT, WENT THROUGH THE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS, THE DESPAIR.
WAS SEEKING SOMETHING AS HE WENT THROUGH THERAPY.
ONCE HIS THERAPIST SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU SHOULD TRY STANDUP.
HE WAS JOKING AROUND ABOUT HIS THERAPY AND HIS INJURIES.
HE THOUGHT IT WAS CRAZY.
SHE KEPT PUSHING HIM.
HE FINALLY AGREED TO GET UP ON STAGE AND TRY IT.
HE FOUND THAT PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO CONNECT TO HIS STORY.
HOW DO YOU AVOID THE PROBLEM OF BEING SEEN AS SORT OF A WEALTHY, WHITE GUY FROM MALIBU OR WHATEVER?
PARACHUTING IN AND LEAVING THEM.
I WAS VERY CONSCIOUS OF THAT.
TRIED TO BE HONEST ABOUT IT.
I TALKED ABOUT BEING THE ONLY WHITE PERSON IN NIGERIA.
I WAS THE MINORITY.
I SUGGESTED TO EVERY WHITE PERSON IN AMERICA TO VISIT A BLACK COUNTRY AND FEEL WHAT THAT'S LIKE AND SEE HOW COOL I HAD TO EMBRACE IT.
I HAD TO ACCEPT THAT.
I COULD NOT DENY THAT.
THAT'S WHO I AM.
MY INTENTIONS WERE SINCERE AND GENUINE.I WANTED TO BRING STORI.
PEOPLE FELT THAT FROM ME.
YOU HAVE BEEN KNOWN AS NOT BEING THAT EMOTIONAL.
'SEINFELD' WAS NO HUGGING.
THIS FELT EMOTIONAL TO ME.
AS I HAVE GOTTEN OLDER, I HAVE BECOME MORE COMFORTABLE WITH EMBRACING THAT.
AGAIN, I DIDN'T GO INTO THIS THINKING THAT IT WOULD BE EMOTIONAL.
I WAS CAUGHT BY SURPRISE BY THE EMOTION THAT CAME AT ME WHEN I TALKED TO THESE PEOPLE.
I REALIZED, THAT WAS A BIG PART OF THE STORY WAS THE EMOTION.
YOU SAY YOU LIKE TO TEST THEORIES THROUGH SOME OF YOUR COMEDIES, SOME OF YOUR SHOWS.
TELL US HOW THAT PLAYED OUT IN 'BORAT' OR 'SEINFELD.'
'BORAT' IS AN EXPERIMENT.
IT'S A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT.
A FICTIONAL CHARACTER FROM A FICTIONAL VERSION OF A REAL PLAY IS CREATED.
AND USED AS A VEHICLE TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE'S TOLERANCES -- FIRST OF ALL, I HAD TO GO UP TO PEOPLE FIRST AND SAY, LISTEN, I'M JUST HIRED TO FILM THIS GUY.
I DON'T KNOW HIM.
HE IS FROM KAZAKHSTAN.
HE DOESN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AMERICA.PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH . HE MAY USE WRONG WORDS.
HE MAY SAY SOMETHING OFFENSIVE.
BE PATIENT WITH HIM.
HE DOESN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
AMERICANS WERE REALLY GENEROUS TO BORAT UNDER THOSE CONDITIONS.
HE WOULD TEST TO SEE HOW MUCH HOSTILITY THERE WOULD BE BY -- THE FIRST THING HE WOULD DO WITH MEN IS GO UP TO THEM AND HE WOULD KISS THEM.
SOMETIMES HE WOULD KISS THEM ON THE LIPS.
IF THEY -- EVEN IF THEY WERE TOUGH GUYS, IF THEY ACCEPTED THAT, THEN HE KNEW HE CAN MANIPULATE THEM SOMEWHAT.
HE HAS CERTAIN THINGS WE WOULD EXPERIMENT WITH, SEE HOW FAR WE COULD GO.
I EXPERIMENTS WITH MY OWN FEELINGS, WITH MY OWN ANXIETY.
WE WOULD BE IN SITUATIONS -- A LOT OF THE THINGS I HAVE DONE, THE ANXIETY LEVEL IS SO HIGH.
YOU WANT TO GO, STOP, STOP, YOU CAN'T.
IN FACT, IT'S WHEN YOUR ANXIETY LEVEL IS THAT HIGH, THAT'S WHEN THE SCENE IS STARTING TO WORK.
YOU HAVE TO SORT OF TEST YOUR BOUNDARIES.ARE CONSTANTLY TESTIR BOUNDARIES IN COMEDY.
OR AT LEAST I AM. AM NEW IN TOW.
IS THERE A LINE YOU WON'T CROSS?
I DON'T THINK ANYTHING -- FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE IN TOTAL FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
THERE IS NO LINE THAT I WON'T CROSS.
BUT I AM VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE ANGLE THAT I'M APPROACHING -- WE HAVE DONE A HOLOCAUST STORY ON 'CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM.'
WE WEREN'T EXPLOITING VICTIMS.
WE WEREN'T EXPLOITING THOSE SITUATIONS.E EXPLOITING PEOPLE'S MISPERCEPTION, AMERICAN IGNORANCE ABOUT THOSE THINGS.
THERE'S ALWAYS A WAY TO TALK ABOUT VERY, VERY CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECTS THAT COULD BE FUNNY WITHOUT EXPLOITING THE VICTIMS.
THIS IS COLBY.EET YOU.
WHERE IS THE SURVIVOR?
HE IS THE SURVIVOR.
FROM THE TELEVISION SHOW.
WHAT DID YOU LEARN ABOUT YOURSELF?
I LEARNED THAT I NEO CONTINUE TO TRY TO MAKE THINGS BETTER THROUGH COMEDY.
USING COMEDY AS A TOOL TO TRY TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK, MAKE PEOPLE GET ALONG, MAKE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND.IT AS A TOOL OF ILLUMINATION, RATHER THAN
THANKS, LARRY, FOR HELPING US LAUGH.
MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
IT WAS GREAT TO BE HERE.
COMEDY IS A POSITIVE VEHICLE FOR CHANGE.
HOW GREATLY AND FULLY WE NEED THAT IN THESE UP CERTAIN TIMES.
JOIN US TOMORROW WHEN THE REAL BUSINESS OF THE NUCLEAR TALKS BETWEEN THE TWO LEADERS GETS UNDERWAY HERE IN HANOI AS PRESIDENT TRUMP AIMS TO SECURE SOME SORT OF DEAL WITH NORTH KOREA OVER THE FUTURE OF ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM.
THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
THANKS FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' ON PBS.
DO JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.