Fmr Capitol Police Officer on Trump & Jan 6: “There’s Been No Accountability”

>>> WELL, IN TRUMP'S ELECTION VICTORY, AS IT CERTIFIED TODAY, THE VIOLENT SCENES THAT ROCKED WASHINGTON, D.C. FOUR YEARS AGO, STILL HAUNTING MANY WHO DEFENDED THE CAPITAL AND DEMOCRACY THAT DAY.

ONE OF THEM IS HARRY DUNN, THEN A CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER, NOT A PROMINENT POLITICAL ADVOCATE.

HE TELLS US HOW HE IS FEELING AS TRUMP RETURNS TO THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> HARRY DUNN THANKS SO MUCH.

FOR A LOT OF US, JANUARY 6 IS SOME YEARS IN THE PAST, WHAT IS IT FOR YOU?

>> SAME.

IT IS HARD TO BELIEVE IT HAS BEEN FOUR YEARS.

HERE WE ARE AND IT IS UNFORTUNATE FOR ME THAT THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR JANUARY 6th 2021, WILL BE TAKING OFFICE JANUARY 20th, 2025.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE, AND IT STILL-- LIKE WE SAID, FOUR YEARS AGO, BUT STILL CURRENT, PRESENT DAY FOR STILL 70 PEOPLE ALSO.

>> YOU WROTE A BOOK LAST YEAR ON STANDING YOUR GROUND, AND YOU TALKED ABOUT OUR NEED TO DISCUSS MAYBE A COLLECTIVE TRUMP THAT THE WHOLE COUNTRY EXPERIENCED, BUT WE ARE ALL PROCESSING IT DIFFERENT.

>> WITH REGARD TO MY BOOK, I WAS ONE OF HUNDREDS OF OFFICERS THERE THAT DAY.

IF YOU ASK 100 OFFICERS, TELL ME YOUR STORY FROM JANUARY 6th, YOU WOULD GET 100 DIFFERENT STORIES.

THAT WAS A WAY OF MEMORIALIZING, TELLING MY STORY OF WHAT I WENT THROUGH.

WE TALK ABOUT THE TRAUMA WE ALL WENT THROUGH ME EVERYBODY WAS AFFECTED IN SOME CAPACITY THAT DAY.

THE POLICE OFFICERS, OUR TRAUMA WAS THE PHYSICAL TRAUMA.

WE ABSORBED THAT PHYSICAL ABUSE THAT SO MANY RIOTERS THAT THEY ASSAULTED POLICE OFFICERS.

JUST A VOTER IN MISSOURI, OR A VAULTER IN SOUTH DAKOTA, SOMEBODY WHO VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN, WE PROTECTED THAT BOAT.

THE OBJECTIVE, ACCORDING TO THE RIOTERS, THEIR OBJECTIVE THAT THEY WAS TO STOP THIS DEAL STEAL , STOP THE CERTIFICATION OF THE ELECTION, THAT WAS MADE UP OF ALL THE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE COUNTRY WHO VOTED IN A FREE AND FAIR ELECTION.

WE WERE PRESERVING THAT BOAT VOTE TOO.

THAT DAY WAS NOT JUST AN ATTACK ON POLICE OFFICERS, IT WAS AN ATTACK ON ONE, THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, PEOPLE'S FREE AND FAIR VOTES, AND WE STOOD UP THAT DAY.

AND I AM PROUD OF THE WORK MY COWORKERS DID THAT DAY.

>> HERE WE ARE NOW, YEARS AFTER THAT, AND PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IS GOING TO BE BACK IN OFFICE.

ONE OF THE THINGS HE PROMISED ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, OR TALKED ABOUT A LOT WITH PARDONING ALL THE PEOPLE WHO HAD BEEN UNDER CRIMINAL CHARGES FROM THE EVENTS OF JANUARY 6th.

WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND?

SEGMENT LIKE YOU SAID, HE WAS PROMISING IT FROM THE JUMP.

THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY HE WAS ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, PUSHING BACK AGAINST THAT, TRYING TO EDUCATE VOTERS WHAT IS AT STAKE.

SORT OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO SOFTEN THE BLOW, BECAUSE I KNEW IT WAS COMING.

HOWEVER, IT IS A SLAP IN THE FACE.

THE PEOPLE-- THERE WAS RECENTLY, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE PUBLICATION THAT DID IT, BUT THERE WAS A STUDY THAT SHOWED THAT THE PEOPLE IN JAIL, THEY AREN'T POLITICAL PRISONERS AND HOSTAGES, A LOT OF PEOPLE CONVICTED OF TRESPASSING, ENTERING CAPITOL, THEY GOT PROBATION, OR A FINE.

THEY WERE NOT IMPRISONED.

THE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN PRISON ASSAULTED POLICE OFFICERS, COMMITTED AN ACT OF VIOLENCE, THE MOST DANGEROUS PEOPLE THAT WERE THERE THAT DAY.

THAT IS ALMOST UNFORGIVABLE, A PARDON TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS.

HOWEVER, IS THERE IF THERE IS A SLIGHT YOU CAN HANG YOUR HEAD ON, THE CONVICTIONS DON'T GET OVERTURNED, YOU'RE JUST FORGIVEN BY THE PRESIDENT.

A JURY OF THEIR PEERS, THEY HAD THEIR DAY IN COURT AND WERE FOUND GUILTY.

I CAN HOLD MY HAT ON ANYTHING, THE JURY'S DID THEIR JOB AND DID THEIR RESPONSIBILITY AND HELD THOSE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.

>> WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE THIS DOES FOR ACCOUNTABILITY?

HERE, WE HAVE A SCENARIO WHERE PEOPLE WHO CLEARLY BROKE THE LAW ARE LIKELY TO BE PARDONED, HOW DOES THAT COMPUTE FOR YOU, AS SOMEBODY WHO WORKS FOR SO MANY YEARS TO DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION AND THE PHYSICAL CAPITOL ITSELF?

>> YEAH.

SO, ONE OF THE THINGS I HAVE SPOKEN ABOUT AT NAUSEA WAS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY.

THE REASON WHY THE PEOPLE ON JANUARY 6th WHERE THERE, THEY WERE EMBOLDENED THE MOST POWERFUL PERSON IN THE WORLD, ARGUABLY.

THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

IF THE PRESIDENT TELLS YOU TO DO SOMETHING, THEN YOU'D BE LIKE, OKAY, THE PRESIDENT TOLD ME I CAN GO DO THAT.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHILE THEY WERE THERE AT THE CAPITOL, WE WERE TELLING THEM TO LEAVE, THEY SAID, NO, THE PRESIDENT TOLD US TO COME HERE.

THERE WAS NO ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THAT.

WHAT IS TO STOP THIS FROM EVER HAPPENING AGAIN?

THE PEOPLE THAT COMMITTED THESE ACTS JANUARY 6, WHAT IS TO STOP THEM NOW THAT DONALD TRUMP'S CURRENT TERM IS COMING UP IN 2029, WHAT IS TO STOP THEM AGAIN?

WHAT IS TO STOP DONALD TRUMP FROM COMMITTING THOSE ACTS AGAIN?

THERE HAS BEEN NO ACCOUNT ABILITY, NOTHING THAT SAID, YOU ARE WRONG, YOU CAN DO THIS.

THE ULTIMATE ACCOUNTABILITY, WAS NOT A BY COURTS, WAS NOT CONGRESS OR AN INSTITUTION, IT WAS THE AMERICAN VOTERS WHO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO REJECT HIM AND HOLD HIM ACCOUNTABLE AT THE BALLOT BOX AND WE FAILED TO DO SO.

IT IS UNFORTUNATE, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT DID NOT MATTER ENOUGH TO PEOPLE.

>> THERE WAS A RECENT POLL FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND THAT SAID ONLY 10% OF DEMOCRATS THAT SUPPORT PRESIDENT TRUMP PARDONING FOLKS FROM JANUARY 6th .

I WONDER, WHEN YOU SEE DATA LIKE THAT, GIVEN THE BENEFIT OF TIME, AND AS YOU SAY, THE ENTIRE ELECTORATE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO, IF JANUARY 6th WAS IMPORTANT ENOUGH OF AN EVENT TO DISQUALIFY SOMEONE FROM BEING PRESIDENT, THEY HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXERCISE THAT BOAT, AND THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

AS A FORMER LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, AS A CITIZEN, WHAT DOES THAT MAKE YOU THINK?

SEGMENT IT WAS A SLAP IN THE FACE, A GOOD PUNCH.

WHAT ME AND MY COWORKERS WENT THROUGH, IT JUST WAS NOT ENOUGH.

I TAKE IT PERSONAL.

THAT IS WHY I DID ALL THE WORK I COULD TO HELP ELECT KAMALA HARRIS, IT DID NOT GO THE WAY WE WANTED IT TO.

I CAN ASSURE YOU, IT WILL NOT BE AN AREA FOR JOE BIDEN'S SUPPORT OF STORMING THE CAPITOL IN SUPPORT OF THEIR CANDIDATE NOT WINNING THE ELECTION.

IT FELT LIKE A GOOD PUNCH, PEOPLE JUST DID NOT CARE, THE INDIFFERENCE THAT IS CAUSING, CREATING THE SITUATION WE ARE IN NOW.

>> I WONDER, THERE IS THE FACTUAL NARRATIVE, THE VIDEO OF WHAT HAPPENED, THE FIRST-HAND ACCOUNTS, THE JOURNALISM THAT WAS TAKING PLACE THAT DAY, AND THEN THERE IS THE COURT TRANSCRIPTS THAT HAVE BEEN GOING ON FOR YEARS NOW THAT PAINT A VERY CLEAR PICTURE, AND OBVIOUSLY, THE FIRST-HAND ACCOUNT.

THEN, THERE IS THIS SORT OF OTHER REALITY OF MISINFORMATION,, CONSPIRACY, WHERE IT JUST SEEMS SO FABULOUS ON ITS FACE, GIVEN THE FIRST PILE OF IT.

WHEN YOU WERE OUT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, OR EVEN TESTIFYING CONGRESS, DID YOU ENCOUNTER THAT, PEOPLE BELIEVING SOMETHING?

YOU ARE LIKE, WAIT A MINUTE, I WAS THERE, THAT IS NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

>> SOME PEOPLE, YOU WILL NOT REACH.

A LOT OF PEOPLE DEEPLY ROOTED IN CONSPIRACY THEORY TALKS, YOU WILL NOT CHANGE THOSE PEOPLE.

WHAT I SPENT MY EFFORTS ON WAS TALKING TO THE PEOPLE WHO MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN ABOUT JANUARY 6, OR IT WAS IN THE BACK OF THEIR MIND, NOT LETTING THEM FORGET, LETTING THEM KNOW WHAT WAS AT STAKE FOR ME THERE ARE REAL PEOPLE ON THE GROUND THAT DAY WE PROTECT THE REPUBLICANS, DEMOCRATS, INDEPENDENTS ALIKE.

MIKE JOHNSON, MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, WE PROTECTED THEM JUST AS MUCH AS WE DID NANCY PELOSI OR CHUCK SCHUMER, OR LINDSEY GRAHAM ANYBODY.

NO MATTER WHAT YOUR POLITICAL VIEWS WERE, THE POLICE OFFICERS, OUR JOB IS TO PROTECT THOSE MEMBERS OF CONGRESS.

THAT IS WHAT THE THREAT WAS, THAT IS WHAT IS AT STAKE OF BEING LOST, NOT JUST THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, WHICH WE DIDN'T HAVE, BUT JUST BEING ABLE TO PROTECT PEOPLE WHOM YOU DISAGREED WITH, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT THE INSTITUTION OF CONGRESS AND THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY IS BIGGER THAN ANY ONE PERSON.

THAT IS WHAT WE WERE OUT THERE PROMOTING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL, THAT MESSAGE.

THE CONSPIRACY THEORIST, I HEARD THEM, BUT I DON'T REALLY ENGAGE WITH THEM MUCH.

LIKE YOU SAID, THERE HAVE BEEN TESTIMONY, FOOTAGE, COURT TRANSCRIPTS, PEOPLE UNDER OATH.

THAT IS WHAT I GIVE MY ATTENTION TO, THOSE THINGS FOR ME NOT PEOPLE SPEWING CONSPIRACY THEORIES ON THE INTERNET.

>> I WONDER IF YOU GO BACK IN THE ART OF WHAT THE STOP THE STEAL MOVEMENT REPRESENTED, THERE WAS A DEEP CONVICTION THAT THERE WAS A FRAUD BEING PERPETRATED UPON THEM.

WE HAVE PEOPLE, FOR EXAMPLE IN GEORGIA, SEVERAL LAWYERS, INCLUDING SIDNEY POWELL AND JENNA ELLIS THAT PLEADED GUILTY IN ELECTION SUBVERSION CASES, TRYING TO OVERTURN THIS.

BUT YOU REALIZE THAT THIS WAS MUCH BIGGER THAN WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE STEPS OF THE CAPITOL.

THERE WERE ENOUGH PEOPLE, SO MANY STATES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

I WONDER WHAT-- DO YOU THINK WE RECOVER FROM BELIEVING THESE ALTERNATE REALITIES?

>> I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO GO.

THE ONLY WAY WE DO THAT IS WE HOLD THE PEOPLE RESPONSIBLE FOR SPREADING THAT MISINFORMATION AND LIES ACCOUNTABLE.

THOSE CASES YOU JUST TALKED ABOUT, THE ELECTION SUBVERSION CASE, IT WAS A CONSPIRACY.

THEY PLED GUILTY.

THEY ACKNOWLEDGED THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN.

THEY WERE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO SUBVERT THE ELECTION.

SO, WE NEED TO HOLD THOSE PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE, BECAUSE THEY KNOWINGLY MISLED PEOPLE.

THE FILTERS VOTERS GET THEIR INFORMATION FROM CREDIBLE,-- PEOPLE THEY SEE AS CREDIBLE SOURCES.

THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS TOLD BY HIS ADVISORS, AND THIS IS ACCORDING TO THEM, UNDER OATH, PRESIDENT TRUMP KNEW THAT THE ELECTION WAS NOT STOLEN, BUT IF HE COULD RAMP UP ENOUGH PEOPLE TO BELIEVE HIM, HE CREATED THIS MOVEMENT, KIND OF LIKE WHERE WE ARE NOW.

>> YOU HAVE THROWN YOUR HAT INTO THE RING IN POLITICS AND YOU RAN AND LOST IN MARYLAND'S THIRD DISTRICT, RUNNING FOR CONGRESS.

YOU ALSO STARTED A PACT, DUMPS DEMOCRACY DEFENDERS, WHICH FOCUSES ON SUPPORTING CANDIDATES BASICALLY RUNNING AGAINST PRO-TRUMP REPUBLICANS.

WHY WAS THIS IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO TAKE THAT STEP, NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT YOUR STORY ABOUT JANUARY 6, BUT TRANSLATING THAT TO POLITICAL ACTION?

>> I THOUGHT I WOULD BE A POLICE OFFICER AT THE REST OF MY WORKING ADULT LIFE.

I SPENT THREE YEARS ON THE DEPARTMENT AFTER JANUARY 6th.

SO, I CONTINUED TO THE WORK EVEN AFTERWARD.

I FELT LIKE I COULD DID EVERYTHING I COULD DO AT THE POLICE OFFICER.

I SERVED MY COUNTRY, SERVE MY COMMUNITY, SERVE THE CONGRESSIONAL COMMUNITY FOR OVER 15 YEARS.

IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO DO MORE.

ESPECIALLY BECAUSE, LIKE I SAID, WE ARE AT THIS INFLECTION POINT IN OUR TIMELINE, WHERE I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE THE ABILITY TO, THEY HAVE THE DESIRE TO, THEY HAVE THE PASSION TO DO SOMETHING AND THIS WAS MY SOMETHING TO DO MORE.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WILL BE DOING A YEAR FROM NOW, I DON'T KNOW, BUT I AM READY TO STAND UP AND MEET THE CHALLENGE OF WHATEVER IT IS, TO USE MY VOICE.

DEMOCRACY IS WHAT FIGHTING FOR.

IF I CAN USE A LITTLE TO HELP INSPIRE, HELP ELECT, TO DO SOMETHING FOR THESE NEW GROUP OF LEADERS THAT ARE FIGHTING JUST AS HARD TO PRESERVE DEMOCRACY, THEN I AM GOING TO CONTINUE TO DO IT.

>> WHAT DID YOU LEARN FROM THE LOSS?

>> POLITICS IS AN INTERESTING WORLD AND IT IS NOT FOR THE FAINT AT HEART.

SERIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, I RAN-- I BELIEVE I RAN A GREAT RACE.

THERE IS NOT MUCH I WOULD DO DIFFERENT.

I AM VERY HAPPY THAT SARAH ALFRED-- I WISH IT WERE ME, BUT SARAH WON, SHE'S GOING TO BE A FANTASTIC REPRESENTATIVE FOR THE PEOPLE OF THE THIRD DISTRICT OF MARYLAND.

I AM HAPPY TO SUPPORT HER.

I JUST LEARNED THAT IT'S-- I WON'T SAY IT IS A DIRTY GAME, BUT IT IS NOT FOR THE WEEK AT HEART.

YOU HAVE TO BE IN IT FOR THE RIGHT REASONS, WHICH I BELIEVE I WAS.

WE WILL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN THE FUTURE.

>> I WONDER IF YOU ARE PUTTING SOME OF THE RECENT EVENTS IN CONTEXT, WE HAVE JUST LIVED THROUGH TWO ATTACKS IN NEW ORLEANS, AND LAS VEGAS, WE ARE STILL LEARNING ABOUT WHAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN MOTIVATING FACTORS FOR THESE INDIVIDUALS TO DO WHAT THEY DID.

I WONDER WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS IN THE ART OF KIND OF LIKE SECURITY COMPLEX, WHAT ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT?

NOT JUST SAFETY ON OUR STREETS AND NEW YEAR'S DAY, BUT PLACES LIKE THE CAPITOL, OTHER MONUMENTS IN WASHINGTON, IS THERE SOMETHING THAT THE NEW ADMINISTRATION SHOULD BE KEEPING IN MIND AS THEY COME IN?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THE VICTIMS THAT WERE LOST, MY HEART GOES OUT TO THEM.

WE DON'T NEED TO POLITICIZE PEOPLE'S LIVES BEING TAKEN.

IF THERE IS LEGISLATION THAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR THESE TYPES OF ACTS TO TRANSPIRE, SURE, LET'S DO IT.

EVERYBODY SHOULD BE FOR LEGISLATION THAT KEEPS PEOPLE SAFE, EVERYBODY SHOULD BECOME A PERIOD.

I AM NOT GOING TO GET INTO THE VARIOUS TALKING POINTS THAT YOU COULD GO THAT WAY.

PEOPLE ARE-- I HATE USING THIS TERM, BUT PEOPLE BECOME RADICALIZED, PEOPLE BECOME EXTREME IN THEIR RESPONSES TO WHAT PEOPLE FEEL THEY ARE BEING NOT HEARD, NOT BEING UNDERSTOOD , AND I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON TRYING TO SEE AND HEAR AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE, AND TRYING TO HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT WORKS FOR PEOPLE AND HERE'S PEOPLE, AND DOES NOT JUST MOVE TO BE DISMISSIVE OF INDIVIDUALS.

>> COMING INTO OFFICE NOW, PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SAID IN THE PAST THAT HE WANTS TO PROSECUTE LIZ CHENEY, FOR EXAMPLE, SAYING , EVERYBODY ON THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE SHOULD GO TO JAIL.

JUXTAPOSE THAT WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN NOW, WAS SET TO AWARD THE PRESIDENTIAL CITIZENS MEDAL TO THIS CHENEY AND JOHNSON, WHO RAN THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, AND I WONDER, WHAT MESSAGE DO YOU HOPE PEOPLE TAKE AWAY FROM THESE VERY CONTRASTING VIEWPOINTS OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WERE SERVING IN CONGRESS AT THE TIME?

AND I KNOW YOU TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF THEM, AND YOU PROBABLY KNOW THEM.

>> IT JUST SHOWS THE DIVISION OF WHERE WE ARE.

I BELIEVE THAT DONALD TRUMP, HE CAMPAIGNED ON RETRIBUTION.

THAT MEANS, I'M GOING TO GET YOU BACK KIND OF THING.

THE PEOPLE OF THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE WERE DOING THEIR JOB.

IT WAS APPOINTED BY CONGRESS, THE SPEAKER, AND THEY DID THEIR JOB.

TO THINK THAT THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO ATTACK THEM, OR THREATEN THEM WITH PROSECUTION OR JAIL TIME, TO THINK THAT HE IS GOING TO DO THAT IS INSANE, JUST CALL IT WHAT IT IS.

IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE.

I AM REALLY PROUD THEY GOT THOSE AWARDS MY CURRENT PRESIDENT BIDEN.

I AM REALLY GLAD THAT HE ACKNOWLEDGED THEIR WORK AND THEIR EFFORTS.

IT COST A LOT OF PEOPLE THEIR CAREERS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT WERE ON THE JANUARY 6th COMMITTEE, A LOT OF THEM ARE NO LONGER SERVING IN CONGRESS ANYMORE.

CONGRESSWOMAN GLORIA, LIZ CHENEY, ADAM KINSINGER.

IT IS IMPORTANT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE SACRIFICE THEY MADE JUST FOR DOING THEIR JOB, AND IT IS REALLY UNFORTUNATE THAT THIS IS WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW.

>> FORMER CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER LARRY DUNN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>>> THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE IT.