Former Senators Condemn Partisanship in the United States

NOW, THE U.S. BAILOUT, AS WE'VE SAID, WAS HARD FOUGHT.

YET GOING FROM ZERO TO A $2 TRILLION STIMULUS PACKAGE IN A FEW DAYS IS IMPRESSIVE.

IT IS A WELCOME CHANGE FROM A LOT OF DYSFUNCTION WE HAVE SEEN IN THE SELF-DESCRIBED GREATEST DELIBERATIVE BODY IN THE WORLD.

IN AN INTERVIEW RECORDED JUST TRIER TO THE STIMULUS AGREEMENT AND AMID ACCELERATING CORONAVIRUS CASES IN THE UNITED STATES, MICHEL MARTIN SAT DOWN WITH TWO FORMER SENATORS WHO KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT THIS.

THEY ARE CHUCK HAGEL AND CHRIS DODD.

THEY SIGNED AN OPEN LETTER IN THE 'WASHINGTON POST' CONDEMNING THE GROWING PARTISANSHIP IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

THEY TELL MICHEL WHY THEY THINK CONGRESS IS FAILING.

WHY THE SENATE IS TO BLAME AND THEY TALK ABOUT THEIR OWN INNOVATIVE ANSWER.

SENATOR DODD, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU.

SENATOR HAGEL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU.

YOU SAID IN YOUR LETTER THAT CONGRESS IS FAILING.

AND WHILE IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WAY POLITICS IS CONDUCTED NOW, THAT MIGHT SEEM PRETTY TAME, BUT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE SENATE, THAT IS A SHOT ACROSS THE BOW.

YOU MAKE THE POINT THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE.

WHAT WAS THE TIPPING POINT THAT MADE YOU FEEL YOU HAD TO SAY THIS?

WELL, IT IS NO ONE SINGLE POINT.

IF IT WERE THAT, YOU WOULDN'T GET A LETTER SIGNED BY 70 FORMER SENATORS.

I THINK ABOUT WATCHING THE ROLE IN THE CONSTITUTION.

WASN'T BY ACCIDENT THAT ARTICLE 1 OF THE CONSTITUTION WAS TO DECLARE THE ROLE OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

AND IT WOULD RESIDE SOLELY IN THE HANDS OF THE CONGRESS BETWEEN TWO CHAMBERS, THE SENATE AND THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

WATCHING THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION, THE PRIMARY FUNCTION, ALONG WITH OVERSIGHT, JUST NOT WORK.

THE NUMBERS YOU CAN PLAY WITH.

I THINK ONLY A HANDFUL DEBATE IT.

EVEN ABSENT OF A DEBATE ABOUT IT, IT HAS DECLINED DRAMATICALLY IN TERMS OF THE PARTICIPATION.

AND THE POWER OF THE EXECUTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO DECLARATIONS OF COULDN'T AFFLICT ALONG THE WAY, DEALING WITH EMERGENCIES, DEPRIVING THE CONGRESS THE ABILITY TO DEAL WITH THE APPROPRIATIONS PROCESS, THE BUDGET PROCESS.

DO YOU HAVE AN EXAMPLE?

DECLARE EMERGENCIES.

YOU CAN CREATE ONE OR PRETEND YOU HAVE AN EMERGENCY AND THE EXEC BRANCH HAS DONE THIS.

DECIDE HOW MUCH WE'LL ALLOCATE AS RESOURCES TO DEAL WITH THAT EMERGENCY.

GETTING INVOLVED IN MILITARY CONFLICTS.

YOU NOW HAVE SENATOR LEE, A VERY SET MEMBER OF THE SENATE FROM UTAH, AND KIM CAIN FROM VIRGINIA SAYING, WAIT A MINUTE.

WHETHER IT IS A DEMOCRAT OR A REPUBLICAN IN THE WHITE HOUSE, THE CONSTITUTION REQUIRES WE BE INVOLVED IN THAT DECISION PROCESS.

THE ROLE OF FOREIGN POLICY.

THEY WANTED A LOT OF THAT TO RESIDE IN THE SENATE HAVE BASICALLY WITHDRAWN.

WHAT ABOUT YOU?

DO YOU THINK WOULD IT HELP THE PUBLIC UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT?

CHRIS ALLUDED TO IT.

A VERY CLEAR EXAMPLE, WHICH I THINK THE PUBLIC UNDERSTANDS, GETS, REGARDLESS OF WHAT SIDE YOU'RE ON, IS TAKING CONGRESSIONALLY APPROPRIATED, DIRECTED MANDATED FUNDS, WHICH IS THE ROLE OF THE CONGRESS.

ALL MONEY BILLS THAT WERE MEANT FOR DEFENSE DEPARTMENT HOUSING, SCH SCHOOLS, FOR MEMBERS OF THE MILITARY AND THEIR FAMILIES ON TAKE THAT MONEY APPROPRIATED FOR THOSE PURPOSES, SFLIFK LEGISLATION THAT THE PRESIDENT SIGNED AND STRIP THAT MONEY OUT AND USE IT FOR A POLITICAL PURPOSE AND CAMPAIGN PROMISE OF THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES TO BUILD A WALL ALONG OUR SOUTHERN BORDER.

YOU SAY IN YOUR PIECE WHICH OF SIGNED BY 70 FORMER MEMBERS OVERALL, THAT THIS PREDATES THE ADMINISTRATION.

IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A WHILE.

A DRIP, DRIP, DRIP.

I STILL WANT TO YOU NAME NAMES.

IT IS EASY TO CRITICIZE YOUR OPPONENTS.

IT IS A LOT HARDER TO CRITICIZE YOUR FRIENDS.

HOW HAVE REPUBLICANS INCREDIBLED TO THE CURRENT STATE OF AFFAIRS?

WELL, YOU GO BACK YEARS WHEN I WAS IN THE SENATE TO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

WE, REPUBLICANS, I'M REPUBLICAN, JUST WENT I KNOW WHAT WHAT MUCH OF WHAT THE PRESIDENT BUSH AGENDA WAS.

GETTING INTO TWO WARS, NOT WATCHING WHAT WE WERE DOING, WHICH LED TO THE FINANCIAL FIASCO OF 2008.

WE WEREN'T PAYING TACKS TO THE OATH OF OFFICE.

EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US TAKES AN OATH OF OFFICE.

NOT TO A PRESIDENT, A SPECIFIC PARTY, BUT ALLOW PARTISANSHIP TO TRULY JUDGMENT, THE JUDGMENT THAT YOU MAKE.

A A LEGISLATOR.

THEN YOU'LL RUN INTO TROUBLE.

THAT'S ONE SIDE OF IT.

AN EXAMPLE OF HOW I SAW IT COMING DURING THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION.

BOTH PARTIES HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY HERE.

LEADERSHIP IN THE CONGRESS.

SENATOR DODD?

HOW HAVE DEMOCRATS CONTRIBUTED?

IT WAS SOMEWHAT CONTROVERSIAL.

I THOUGHT WE MADE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE AS DEMOCRATS, TO LIMIT THE FILIBUSTER.

OVER THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, WE HAVE INSIGNIFICANCED THAT THOSE NOMINATIONS THAT WILL GO ON FOR A LIFETIME.

ONCE IT HAS BEEN APPROVED, I THINK BY GIVING UP THE ROLE THAT WE HELD HISTORICALLY, WE MADE IT EASIER TO NOMINATE PEOPLE WHO ARE POLARIZING IN THEIR VIEWS THAN THE MORE MODERATE CHOICE OR COMPETENT CHOICE.

I CITE THE EXAMPLE.

RUTH BADER GINSBURG WAS APPOINTED BY 90 VOTES.

AS WAS SCALIA.

TWO VERY DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW BUT THERE WAS A HIGH REGARD FOR THEIR COMPENSATIONY.

TODAY IT BACK'S BRAWL.

AND SOME OF THESE PEOPLE WILL SERVE FOR THE NEXT 30, 40 YEARS.

MAYBE LONGER.

IT MAY BE UNDEMOCRATIC.

YOU HAVE NINE JUSTICES BUT NOTHING LIKE WHAT THE FOUNDERS INTENDED FOR CONGRESS.

IT IS SLOW, FRUSTRATING, IT CAN MAKE YOU ANGRY AT THE PACE IT MOVES BUT THERE WAS A RATIONALE.

WE'RE SLOWING DOWN AN EXECUTIVE.

I THOUGHT WE MADE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE.

ONE THE OF EXAMPLES WAS MITCH McCONNELL'S REFUSAL TO HOLD HEARINGS FOR THE SUPREME COURT NOMINEE PUT FORWARD BY PRESIDENT OBAMA.

AND THEN DEMOCRATS EXPLAIN ABOUT THE HUNDREDS OF BILLS THE HOUSE HAS PASSED THAT THE MAJORITY LEADER WON'T SCHEDULE.

SO GIVEN AN ENVIRONMENT LIKE THAT, WHERE PEOPLE ARE JUST FURIOUS.

SOME 200 BILLS HAVE COME FROM THE HOUSE.

THESE ARE BIPARTISAN BILLS.

WE HEAR THAT NEVER HAPPENS.

IT DOES HAPPEN.

I'M NOT EXPECTING THE SENATE SHOULD BRING UP EVERY ONE OF THE 200 BILLS.

WHEN YOU BRING UP NONE AT ALL, AND YOU FILL THE AGENDA BY JAMMING THROUGH THE JUDGES, FOR TERMS THAT WILL GO WAY BEYOND THE TERM OF THE OFFICE OF THIS PRESIDENT OR EVEN MEMBERS OF THE CONGRESS.

THAT'S ALLOCATION OF THE TIME OF THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

LEGISLATING IS THE PRIME AEROFUNCTION.

THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

THEY COME OUT OF AN EXPERIENCE WHERE THAT WAS THE ABSENCE OF THAT.

PEOPLE HAVE A CHANCE ON LEGISLATING AND GIVING UP THE LEGISLATIVE FUNCTION, AND TURNING IT OVER TO THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH AND THE JUDICIAL BRANCH WERE FAR LESS DEMOCRATIC THAN THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH.

THAT'S PROBABLY THE PRIMARY REASON WE'VE MADE A SUGGESTION.

IN THE LETTER WE SENT TO THE CURRENT MEMBERS OF THE SENATE TO HAVE THEM CONSIDER SETTING UP THE BIPARTISAN CAUCUS TO SET UP A NEW STANDARD, A NEW ENVIRONMENT SO YOU CAN DEAL WITH THESE THINGS.

KNEW DON'T HAVE SOME PROCESS FOR FEMALE DEVELOP A RELATIONSHIP TO GET THINGS DONE FOR A PURPOSE, TO MOVE AHEAD OF RAW PARTISANSHIP, IT WILL ONLY GET WORSE.

THEY WILL ABDICATE THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES.

COULDN'T A MENTAL OF THE REPUBLICAN CAUCUS PUT FORTH A CANDIDATE AS LEADER AND GET DEMOCRATS TO SUPPORT THAT?

WHY DO YOU NEED A SEPARATE BODY TO DO WHAT THEY HAVE THE POWER TO DO?

THAT WOULDN'T BE THE SAME THAT YOU RECALL.

THAT'S TOTALLY SEPARATE.

WE SERVED TOGETHER.

WHETHER IT WAS A DEMOCRATIC LEADER OR A REPUBLICAN LEADER.

THEY WERE JEALOUS AND PREROGATIVES THEY HAD.

IF I SAT DOWN NEXT TO ROBERT C.

BYRD FOR 20 YEARS.

IF I SAID IN A CONVERSATION WITH HIM, I'VE SERVED UNDER FIVE PRESIDENTS.

HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T TALK TO ME FOR A WEEK OR TWO.

HE WOULD SAY YOU DIDN'T SERVE UNDER THEM.

YOU SERVED WITH THEM.

WHAT CHANGED?

POLITICS CHANGED.

THE MONEY, EVERYTHING.

YOU WONDER WHY THE CONGRESS IS HELD IN LOWER ESTEAM THAN ANY OTHER INSTITUTION IN THE COUNTRY.

WE DON'T EXPECT CONGRESS TO GO ALONG WITH THE PRESIDENT OF YOUR PARTY EVERY DAY.

WE UNDERSTAND LOYALTY, IDEOLOGY.

WHEN YOU STEAL FROM THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, ITS POWER TO LEGISLATE, THEN YOU'RE VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION.

YOU SAID IN YOUR LETTER, THEY ARE ALL COMMITTED TO STANDING WITH THEIR COLLEAGUES WHO ARE CURRENTLY SERVING IF THEY ARE WILLING TO ENGAGE IN A MORE BIPARTISAN, CIVIL PROCESS.

I WOULD SUBMIT THEY COULD DO THAT NOW.

WHY DON'T THEY?

I THINK CHUCK AND I, AND CERTAINLY, PAUL KIRK IS THAT OTHERS WHO SHARE THE VIEWS THAT WE DO.

WHEN YOU TALK TO SITTING MEMBERS, YOU COULD HAVE THE SAME CONVERSATION.

IT'S PNL THEY'RE UNAWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON.

SOMETIMES BY OFFERING A STRUCTURE THAT ALLOWS FOR PEOPLE TO COME TOGETHER, YOU FIND A COLLECTIVE RESPONSE IS EASIER TO FORM THAN IT IS TO STAND UP AND SUGGEST SOME CHANGE.

I TALKED ON MICHAEL BENNETT OF COLORADO.

I SAID MICHAEL, WHAT DO YOU THINK WE OUGHT TO DO NEXT?

HE SAID LET ME TALK TO SOME PEOPLE UP HERE.

MAYBE WE'LL INVITE MAYBE 10 OR 15 OF THE FORMER MEMBERS TO COME UP.

TO TALK WITH US ABOUT HOW WE MIGHT DO IT.

I THINK YOU'LL FIND WITH DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS, AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN WITHOUT INDIVIDUALLY STANDING UP AND DOING IT THEMSELVES.

SO WHAT ABOUT YOU?

HE SAID THAT HE'S HEARD FROM SOME OF HIS FRIENDS WHO ARE CURRENTLY SERVING.

PEOPLE ON HIS SIDE OF THE AISLE.

CERTAINLY YOU HAD FOUR REPUBLICANS.

WHAT ABOUT THOSE CURRENTLY SERVING?

SO THEY'RE IN THE SITUATION WHERE THEY'RE THE MAJORITY.

THEY HAVE A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WHO HAMMERS ON THEY WILL EVERY DAY.

THREATENS THEM EVERY DAY.

IF YOU VOTE AGAINST ME ON ANY ISSUE OR SPEAK OUT AGAINST ME, I'LL GO AFTER YOU IN A PRIMARY.

SO THEY'RE THREATENED.

I GET THAT.

I'VE BEEN THERE.

CHRIS HAS BEEN THERE.

THAT'S TOUGH.

YOU HAVE TO RISE ABOVE THAT.

I THINK IF YOU HAD REPUBLICAN WHO'S WERE AGREEING WITH THAT, IT MAY JUST BE THESE TOUGH SITUATIONS, THEY'RE AFRAID TO DO IT.

STRENGTHS IN NUMBERS HELPS.

YOU CAN CO-SPONSOR A BILL WITH A DEMOCRAT AND WORK A DEMOCRAT.

THEY'RE NOT THE ENEMY, THEY'RE NOT THE DEVIL.

GET SOMETHING DONE.

WITH GREAT RESPECT FOR ALL OF YOUR SERVICE IN SO MANY AREAS, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A SITUATION.

YOU JUST MENTIONED, THE PRESIDENT, YOU HAVE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BEING RAISED TO ATTACK PEOPLE.

SOME OF IT DIRECTED BY GROUP THAT'S WE KNOW.

SOME OF IT DIRECTED BY GROUPS WE DON'T KNOW.

YOU HAVE A PRESIDENT WILLING TO CAMPAIGN FOR PEOPLE'S PRIMARY OPPONENTS IF HE FINDS THEY'RE NOT SUFFICIENTLY SUPPORTED BY HIM.

YOU HAVE OUTSIDE GROUPS WILLING TO POUR MILLIONS OF DOLLARS INTO REALLY SMALL RACES TO MAKE THE POINT THAT THEY ARE NOT TO BE DEFIED.

IN THE FACE OF ALL OF THAT, IS A BIPARTISAN CAUCUS WHERE PEOPLE GET TOGETHER AS HUMAN BEINGS, IS THAT REALLY ENOUGH?

WE'VE BOTH SAID IT.

WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE A UNITED STATES SENATOR?

WHY DO YOU WANT TO BE A UNITED STATES SENATOR?

TO MAKE THE WORLD BETTER?

AND TO FOLLOW YOUR JUDGMENT?

LISTENING TO PEOPLE?

YOU MUST HAVE SOME THOUGHTS ABOUT THINGS HOW YOU DO IT IS IMPORTANT, TOO.

HOW YOU'LL BE REMEMBERED IN HISTORY BY YOUR FAMILY, YOUR COLLEAGUES.

ALL OF THOSE ARE ON THE MINDS OF ELECTED OFFICIALS.

I THINK ANYBODY WHO RUNS ARE IS PROUD OF THEIR SERVICE.

THEY'RE PROUD OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO DO AS COUNTRY.

LET'S BRING A LITTLE OF THAT IN FOCUS.

RATHER HANDLE THE JUST COWERING.

OH, I HAVE TO DO WHATEVER THE PRESIDENT TELLS ME.

I WANT TO KEEP MY JOBL SO BAD.

WHEN I WAS IN THE SENATE, ANY JOB I HAD, I SAID I DON'T NEED TO BE A SENATOR OR SECRETARY OF DEFENSE.

I HAD A GOOD LIFE BEFORE ANY OF THOSE JOBS.

I'M GOING TO BE HONEST AND TELL THE PEOPLE WHY I BELIEVE AND WHY I'LL VOTE THE WAY I AM.

I KNOW THAT'S TOUGH AS HELL.

I KNOW IT IS DIFFICULT.

WE HAVE TO FIND SOME COURAGE AGAIN.

I WAS JUST ONE OF LOCKER ROOM TRIED TO DO THAT.

IT NEEDS TO BE REPEATED OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

THERE ARE GREAT PEOPLE SERVING IN THE SENATE.

THE DEATH OF LOCAL NEWS.

THERE ARE ONLY ABOUT 2,000 PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVER SERVED IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE.

ONLY ABOUT 150 OF US STILL ALIVE IN THE SENATE.

ABOUT HALF WITHIN 72 HOURS SIGNED A LETTER SAYING WE WOULD LIKE THE SEE THE INSTITUTION GET BACK ON ITS FEET AGAIN.

AND YOU'RE RIGHT.

WILL THIS CHANGE THE WORLD?

WE LOVE SERVING IN THAT BODY.

WE CARE ABOUT IT VERY MUCH.

WE FELT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF BEING THERE AS THE UNITED STATES SENATOR.

AND WE BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY THAT THOSE VIEWS ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE TO US.

THAT I BELIEVE THE MEMBERS WHO ARE SERVING TODAY, THE TWO THAT FOLLOWED JOE LEAN AND I IN THE SENATE.

THEY'RE DOING A GREAT JOB.

TODD YOUNG FROM INDIANA.

YOUNG SENATOR FROM OKLAHOMA.

THE REPUBLICAN WHO HAS SOME CARES ABOUT THESE ISSUES.

SO I'M FAR MORE OPTIMISTIC.

CHUCK SAID SOMETHING EARLIER.

HOW DEMOCRACIES DIE.

THEY DON'T DIE BY COUP D'ETAT ANYMORE.

YOU DESTROY PEOPLE'S CONFIDENCE IN INSTITUTIONS.

JUST ERODE THEM.

CONSTANTLY UNDERMINE THEM.

WHEN GOOD AND DECENT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THEIR FUTURE, EPI DEMAGOGUES COME ALONG AND TAKE ADVANTAGE OF.

.

THANK YOU BOTH.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU BOTH.