Hasan Minhaj On Paving the Way For a “New Brown America”

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: Time now for some light relief from my next guest. Hasan Minhaj is a two-time Peabody award-winning comedian, known for his political satire show “Patriot Act,” and his break up, stand up special “Homecoming King.” Now he’s back with a second special, “The King’s Jester,” and that premieres October 4 on Netflix. He speaks to Hari Sreenivasan about comedy, privacy, and what he calls his vision for a new brown America.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

HARI SREENIVASAN, ANCHOR OF PBS NEWSHOUR WEEKEND: Christiane, thanks. Hasan Minhaj, thanks so much for joining us. So, you know, this has been what, five years since “Homecoming King,” you won Peabody award for that.

HASAN MINHAJ, COMEDIAN, “HASAN MINHAJ: THE KING’S JESTER”: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: But you hadn’t really been on tour or doing stand-up material for quite a time in between. So what do you do, just hang out in your basement during the pandemic and crank this out?

MINHAJ: You know, I was I was the host of “Patriot Act with Hasan Minhaj.”

SREENIVASAN: Yes, yes, that was that.

MINHAJ: And then, yes, so I was hosting a show. So I do go to work and write material. And then during the pandemic, you know, had our second and,  you know, life was really happening. And to me, great comedy comes from your real life. And it is the public act of confession and so fatherhood, fertility, freedom of speech, all that stuff I wanted to talk about, because those are the themes and the things that were happening in my life for the — over the past five years.

SREENIVASAN: You know, when you mentioned confession, there’s something so compelling about that format of comedy, but how is it that you guys are able to share something that is so personal and intimate —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — that most of us have a tough time sharing it with our best friend, but there you are doing it in front of literally thousands of people that will be broadcast forever?

MINHAJ: Yes, I mean, to me, the art form itself of comedy has a long tradition of the public act of confession, whether it’s Richard Pryor getting on stage and talking about literally catching his own hair on fire during a drug induced bender, or even the great Spalding Gray. Even great satirical writers like David Sedaris, really kind of bleed on the page. And so when I was working with our Director Prashanth Venkataramanujam, Prashanth, really told me, hey, man, if you’re going to do something, if you’re going to take the time to go on tour and ask people to buy tickets, I’m going to need you to bleed on the page, and I need you to confess things that you’re not even willing to share with your friends on iMessage or WhatsApp, you know? And one of the big challenges that I wanted to do is kind of interrogate myself. And to me, that really is the beginnings of what I think or what I hope to be a special that will resonate with people.

SREENIVASAN: Yes, because it seemed like “Homecoming King,” we got an idea of what made you who you are —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — and design a spotlight on your world. And now, we’re almost it’s like, we’re, you know, that “Being John Malkovich” we’re in Hasan’s head —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — or for a while.

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And we’re just trying to — we’re almost going through near real time, how you’re processing what you believe about things.

MINHAJ: Yes, for sure. I mean, so I think you hit it right on its head. “Homecoming King” really was my introduction to the world, and I’m introducing the world to this idea of new brown America.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MINHAJ: My dad’s from that generation, like a lot of immigrants, where he feels like if you come to this country, you’re going to endure some racism. But for me, like a lot of us, I was born here. So I actually had the audacity of equality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MINHAJ: You know, everybody knows you as Hari, I know that you’re Hari. And it was my job to distill that to people and explain that to people, the idea of loci (ph) I can’t get, what will people think. That is the thing that looms over all our heads. This special really was, OK, cool people know who you are. Why do you believe what you believe? You get to say whatever you want on stage, but why are you saying it? And that interrogation of myself, and how far I’m willing to take a joke, that was — what’s really important to me. If I were to summarize the special and kind of why I wanted to talk about it during this period of time and release it now, so much of what’s happening right now with discourse around comedy and freedom of speeches, comedians and satirists should push the envelope. But I’m also here to say that sometimes the envelope pushes back. And you have to determine, at least me, and I was writing this to myself, I have to determine what my lines are vis-a-vis my family being on my kids. And —

SREENIVASAN: Yes,

MINHAJ: — and that’s really where we open the show with family and we end with family.

SREENIVASAN: You know, you have this arc in there about how basically comedy helped, in one way, save your life.

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And where it was actually comedy that put your family in danger.

MINHAJ: Sure.

SREENIVASAN: That giving away too much of the joke of the story. How did you and your wife kind of sort through when the envelope pushes back?

MINHAJ: Yes. So, there’s a big difference between doing the right thing for the right reasons and then doing the right thing for the wrong reasons. So whether it’s needling Jared Kushner or dictators or autocrats or Randall Smith and Alden Global Capital, you can do that for the right reasons. You could also do that for clout. And I’m sure you know this is a journalist. One of the things you probably have to check yourself on Twitter is, am I doing this because I really believe it? This is a value to society and value to discourse. Or am I, quote, tweeting somebody right now for the algorithm? Am I refining crude oil for the tech companies, so I get the dopamine hit? And I masquerading that as virtue, or I’m doing something good, or I’m raising awareness. For me, as a human being as a Muslim, checking your intention, checking your heart is something that like is very important to me. And if I’m going to maintain the relationship that I have with my family, and Beena, my wife, and the audience, I want to be honest, and I want to kind of check myself and interrogate myself in front of everybody. And so it was a — it was really tough on our relationship, on our family. We made it through. Shout out to Beena, and she’s also kind of a co-writer of the special. There’s certain lines in the special that she’s like, no, you better put that in. There’s a line in the special where she says if you ever put our kids in danger again, I will leave you in a second. And I remember showing her that piece of paper. I go, should I do this on stage? She goes, you better put that on stage. Sorry, I know this PBS, I shouldn’t have said that.

SREENIVASAN: Yes. It’s like, you know —

MINHAJ: But she was like, you better say that, like I said that, like you need to say that. And giving her that respect and that agency and the editorial right over what I say is important, because they matter to me more than the career.

SREENIVASAN: The fourth half, I guess I’d say besides fertility, freedom, speech, fatherhood would be fame. And it seemed like —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — there’s a point there, at least on stage where you sort of turned into Gollum with the, you know, Lord of the Rings, with the —

MINHAJ: Yes, Clout Monster, yes. I call them Cloud Monster. Yes.

SREENIVASAN: Yes. And so, when did you get to realize that, hey, maybe I’m turning into something that I don’t like, because a lot of people just sort of get swept up in it. And they’re rewarded for it, right?

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And society says, well, you’re more famous, and you’re more special because of this little signal.

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And when did you have to kind of fall back and say, I got to rethink this?

MINHAJ: I think, for me, personally, that moment where we got a letter, and it was filled with Anthrax, that was just a sobering moment of, quite literally an envelope pushing back for us and for my family. And when you’re holding that thing, and you’re putting your family in danger, or when your HUDs (ph) visa is denied and you can’t make your pilgrimage., you’re starting to understand, oh, there’s real-world consequences that are happening towards yourself and your loved ones who, by the way, don’t have a say, on what happens to them. That the algorithm will never care about. People will forget about your problems with the flick of a wrist. Man, Twitter’s going to move on. It’s already moved on to nine other stories. But Beena, Najme, Seema, Aisha and my kids, they have to live with the consequences of what I say. So that moment to me was a sobering moment where I’m like, man, I got to do it for the fam, I cannot do this for the gram because this thing matters to me more than that. And I hope and I pray, man, sincerely like every day that I maintain that as my true north star because I’m still, you know, pretty young in this game, and I hope that the game doesn’t change me. I’ve stayed true to who I really am and what I believe in the way my parents raised me.

SREENIVASAN: Given that, you know, all the things that you have said about the Saudi monarchy, and here you are facing a real consequence, which is that, you know, part of Muslim life is to make that pilgrimage, if you can.

MINHAJ: Sure.

SREENIVASAN: And you might never be able to do that.

MINHAJ: Yes. So, look, I think you’re cornering me here. I just want to apologize to the kingdom. I built for this. I’m 165 pounds weight. You win, I lose. I will never run into an embassy ever again. I sincerely apologize. If I was a golfer, would I take the money? Sure. Look, again, I don’t want to be the Tupac of comedy. I want to be the Puff Daddy of comedy. I want to live while more talented people die around me. So, I don’t want the smoke. Yes. So that is my answer. That is my answer. And I would love, I would love to make my pilgrimage to the holy city, Mecca. That would be beautiful.

SREENIVASAN: You know, I watched “Homecoming King” and one of the things is a brown guy. I was wondering, where did he get this swagger? Or did you ever have kind of almost an imposter syndrome or —

MINHAJ: Are you saying I shouldn’t be this confident?

SREENIVASAN: No.

MINHAJ: I carry these 65 pounds very well, Hari. Don’t — how dare you? And by the way, you carry that — well, that 40 regular, what — I see you. I see you, Hari.

SREENIVASAN: It’s good to be seen. I mean, I wonder, you know, sometimes when especially kind of in minority households —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — we’re always kind of told to not boast about ourselves, or don’t be to sort of, you know, stay humble.

MINHAJ: Sure.

SREENIVASAN: And it’s not — it’s a weird kind of mixed signal that you get, so many mixed signals that you get from Asian parents, right?

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And American parents. But when did you kind of step into your own shoes and realize that like, hey, you know what, I’ve got this skill, I have to be confident with it. And I got to take what’s mine.

MINHAJ: Yes, I think it’s important not to conflate confidence with arrogance. And our parents did an amazing job teaching us respect and decorum and how to how to be polite in good representatives of our family. But actually having, you know, the audacity to say, no, I deserve this. I deserve to be on the stage and I deserve to have my own show and have my own specials. I think my job is to be my grandmother’s wildest dreams. And I want my children to be proud of what daddy said. And yes, that was my dad. And hopefully, he opened the door so they could take it even further. So our generation, we’re just introducing ourselves to the country and to the world, and to popular culture at large. But I can’t wait for them to take the torch and not to have to introduce themselves to anybody. That to me is the dream. So I’m always checking myself on two fronts. It’s would 2004, 18-year-old Hasan, be so proud of the material that he’s doing. And then would 47-year- old Hasan 10 years in the future look back and be like, yes, you did the right thing. You weren’t just a petulant child. You said something honest, you didn’t burn the building down. You weren’t being a provocateur just for the sake of being a provocateur.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: You stood true in your truth and you were super funny. And to me, those are the — I’m always looking at future Hasan and past Hasan in that way.

SREENIVASAN: You know, we’ve both got grandmothers in India, and I saw you have —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — some pictures with yours recently. And —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — I’m wondering, like, what are those conversations? Like, does she know what you do and who you are? Or, I mean, you know, you were looking over some photos in an Instagram picture, but what’s that like (INAUDIBLE)?

MINHAJ: Yes. So, you know, my grandmother, my nanny, she is 94.5 years old. And, you know, does she know who I am? I mean, Hari, I’m just — I’m her grandson.

SREENIVASAN: That’s right.

MINHAJ: So, she’s not on Instagram or YouTube or Twitter. And I’m really there to just give her a hug, give her a kiss. She looks great for 94. She’s sharpest attack, she roasts me. You know, the moment I walked in, she’s like, it’s been a while. And I’m like, I know, I know, I know. There was there was an airborne virus in the air, but I’m here to catch a blessing, man, that’s all.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: So for me to get a poem, you know, we call it (INAUDIBLE), she gives me a poem. And she, you know, wrote on an envelope to both my kids. She gave them some money. And, you know, I was so proud to be like, your great grandmother gave you this, you know?

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: And —

SREENIVASAN: So, this funny run in your family? Are your kids funny?

MINHAJ: Oh, my kids are funny for kids. But yes, funny is in my family. My dad is very funny. And my cousins are hilarious. So shout out to my cousin Sahil (ph), he’s the comedian of the family. I’m actually the least funny person in my family. I got real funny people in my family. So I’m just good at distilling what they say and do and putting it on stage. So I got some real comedians in the Minhaj family.

SREENIVASAN: There’s a bit that you have in there about the queen.

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And, you know, and the U.K. and Indians —

MINHAJ: Of course.

SREENIVASAN: — have this sort of strange, reverence/connection to the monarchy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MINHAJ: Only people that love non-Indians more than the Saudis or the Brits. The only difference is we love when the Brits on us. Their Indian uncles here tonight that are like, wow, London (INAUDIBLE). Look at London, man. My cousin lives in London. Look at the queen. I’m like — the queen. What are you talking about? This is insane. In my mom’s bedroom, this is true, in my mom’s bedroom. She has a wedding photo of me and Beena on our wedding day, directly next to that photo. It’s a photo of Princess Diana. She’s been dead since 1997. I’m your son. How are we the same? She’s like Hasan. You don’t know Princess die? I’m like, do you, Ma? She was so beautiful. And her mother-in-law was me. And her husband was cold. I’m like. Ma? Are you describing your marriage?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: What was the conversation like at your household when the queen passed away?

MINHAJ: Cool. Exactly (INAUDIBLE). Come on, man.

SREENIVASAN: Exactly. So, you know —

MINHAJ: I’m going to say this — I’m going to do this on PBS but I’m going to say it in Hindi and this is a bar, OK? (Speaking Foreign Language). Who is she? Is she your mother? Is she your grandmother? Is she your father? Then why do you care?

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: But so when people are like, that’s someone’s grandmother. Yes, I got a grandma too. Nobody’s like, wow, husband’s grandma in Bangalore. Like —

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: — you know, this was, you know, let’s pour some out for her. No. So, look, we have a very complicated relationship, obviously, with the Brits in the U.K.

SREENIVASAN: Yes,

MINHAJ: And I’m not going to lie, like when I had a show in London, and maybe we can start calling it even when we can walk into the Museum of Natural History and start taking some things from the Indian portion of the exhibit. So let’s just put it that.

SREENIVASAN: Yes. You know, speaking of partition, it’s always a transition I wanted to say.

MINHAJ: Oh that’s not a good (INAUDIBLE).

SREENIVASAN: Good trend.

MINHAJ: That’s OK. We’re going to hard pivot in 1947 right now?

SREENIVASAN: Tough, tough. No, I was watching Ms. Marvel the other day and there’s a couple of —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — really fascinating episodes. I mean —

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: — you know, on the one hand, I’m sitting here going, how cool is this, that we have a brown girls superhero?

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: And that it’s just a whole new audience that is bringing, you know, kind of awareness to history and culture and everything else. And then — and also, so great to see so many brown names in the credits, which I know is something that you worked on, on your show as well.

MINHAJ: Yes, I think, you know, and I couldn’t agree more, man. And one of the things I’m sure you feel, as somebody who works in news and in journalism is the power of framing in media.

SREENIVASAN: Yes.

MINHAJ: And if the medium is the message, media, quite literally controls the message. And art has a way to frame the narrative. And what I love most about Ms. Marvel and Iman and shout out to Sama Amanat, is that they’re able to frame our story. And a lot of times the framing of stories is being written, produced and narrated by people who don’t know the story intimately. So the fact that we’re living during a period of time where we’re framing our story, man, that’s really powerful because it’s important that we’re the protagonists and narrators of our own story.

SREENIVASAN: Thank you.

MINHAJ: Yes.

SREENIVASAN: Hasan Minhaj, thanks so much for joining us.

MINHAJ: Thanks, Hari.