Holocaust Survivor Dr. Edith Eger Tells Her Story

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, now, as the world seeks to understand the definition of genocide and how to prevent it, while also reflecting on Israel’s history, we look ahead to International Holocaust Remembrance Day this Saturday. And its message is perhaps more important than ever, with acts of antisemitism rising globally. Edith Eger was just 16 years old when she was sent to Auschwitz concentration camp. But what she saw remained a secret for many years. Well, now an internationally renowned psychologist, she devotes her life to helping people heal from their trauma. Edith and her daughter, Marianne Engle, joined Walter Isaacson to discuss the power of forgiveness, her bestselling book, “The Choice,” and why telling her story set her free.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTER ISAACSON, CO-HOST, AMANPOUR AND CO.: Thank you, Bianna. And Dr. Edith Eger, and Dr. Marianne Engel, welcome to the show.

MARIANNE ENGEL, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Thank you so much. We’re delighted to be here.

ISAACSON: Saturday is Holocaust Remembrance Day. A lot of people now, especially younger people, think of the Holocaust as way back, way back in history. They don’t remember anything about it. But Dr. Edie, as you call yourself, you were there.

EDITH EGER, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR AND AUTHOR, “THE CHOICE”: Yes.

ISAACSON: I want you to tell us about the story so we never forget. Tell us about Auschwitz and tell us about, maybe start with the cattle car going to Auschwitz.

EGER: The cattle car was very crowded. And my mother was sitting in a bench. My father was sitting on the floor with the girlies. I begged my father to shave so he would look younger. But he didn’t listen to me at all. And when we arrived, I was met with a sign, arbeit macht frei, work makes you free. And my father was very encouraging that we’re just going to work a little while and then we go home. And of course, that did not happen. But my mom told me, and I like to quote her today, that everything can be taken away from a human being, except what they put in their mind, and that really kept me going, that this is temporary, and I’m going to make it no matter what. And so, I did a lot of praying, and I think that was useful for me to look at life from inside out.

ISAACSON: On the very first day you were at the death camp of Auschwitz, your parents are killed. And there’s something very poignant that happened, which is they come to you. And you’re with your sister, and they point to your mother and say, is that your mother or your sister? Tell me what happened then.

ENGEL: Mom, you were in line. And then, and you and your sister were together with your mother in between you.

EGER: Yes.

ENGEL: And you saw this man in the white suit.

EGER: Yes. The man in the white suit was Dr. Mengele. And he pointed with that, they call it the finger game today, that you go either to the left or you go to the right. And unfortunately, I said, it’s my mother. And so, pointed to the left and my sister and I to the right. And I followed my mom and he grabbed me. I never forget those eyes, and said, you’re going to see your mother very soon. She’s just going to take a shower.

ISAACSON: And they were doing that because they were killing the older people. And by having referred to the woman as your mother, they realized she was older. Did that make you feel guilt over the years or survival remorse?

EGER: Tremendous guilt. What I could do, what I should do. But of course, you cannot change the past. It did happen. And I remember my sister yelling at me when I asked the guard, when will I see my mother, and the guard said, she’s burning there, pointing at the chimney. And so, that’s how I entered Auschwitz. And it was the middle of May, 1944.

ISAACSON: In your beautiful book, “The Choice,” you talk about dancing for Dr. Josef Mengele. Tell me about what happens when he comes in and when you see him. Tell me the story about dancing for Dr. Josef Mengele.

EGER: He welcomed us very warmly and wanted to know who is talented because he would like to be entertained. And so, the friends that I knew, because I danced for the community where I live. And so, just threw me in front of him and very friendly, he said, dance for me, dance for me. And I began to really say to myself, you better be good. And I did a split right away that minute. I did a very good a very good one. And I can throw my feet up from the front and from the back as well. I was — I wish I could have a picture for you, maybe somewhere they were filming this.

ISAACSON: You danced to Tchaikovsky. And then he gave you bits of bread. Tell me about that.

EGER: I was frightened to death. I was so anxious to please, so I would not be sent to the gas chamber. It was a very challenging and difficult unprepared event.

ISAACSON: What did you do in the camp, you and your sister, to keep yourself alive, to keep going?

EGER: We had to undress the people who were lying dead or not. And we were asked to cut the teeth of everyone. It was very scary because we didn’t know what’s going to happen in the next minute. We did not know whether we’re going to end up in a gas chamber ourselves. But staying alive was the goal, what to do? We had a lot of humor, kind of sarcasm that we used cynicism or that just to be sure that this is temporary and we are going to make it. Hope. Hope was never, ever given up. And I tell you, today I have three children, five grandchildren, and seven great-grandsons. And that’s my revenge to Hitler.

ISAACSON: In May of 1945, the Allies come in to liberate the people of the camp. I think it was an African American soldier who helped save you, and you were underneath a pile of corpses.

EGER: Well, I felt someone’s hand. And I looked up, and I saw tears in his eyes. And yes, I looked up. It was a man of color. I wish I could see him now. He must be in his late 90s for sure.

ISAACSON: Marianne, you discovered on your own —

ENGEL: Yes.

ISAACSON: — about your mother’s history in the death camps. Tell me how you discovered it, what you felt, and then what you said to her.

ENGEL: So, when I was about 12, at that point I was reading, you know, grown up books. I started to look behind some of the books, in the book — in one of the bookcases. And I found this big book. And I took it out, curious, and it had the most disgusting, horrible pictures I’d ever seen. And they were so frightening. And I didn’t know anything about my mother having been to Auschwitz, but I knew that my mother had a sad — a deep sadness in her. And there was something in her eyes that was always just a little sad. She was the warmest. All my friends loved her. She was a warm, wonderful mother, but I could just see that. And when I saw these pictures, I mean, it was horrific. I went straight to my father and said, Daddy, what is this book? And was mom there? And he sat me down, and he said, this was Auschwitz, and yes, your mother was there. And I, of course, was amazed, in a way, kind of not as surprised as you might think, but also shocked. And then my mother found out that my father had told me, and she was furious.

ISAACSON: Wait, wait, wait. Why were you furious, Dr. Edie?

EGER: Because I kept it a secret, because I wanted to assimilate, and I didn’t want anybody to label me a certain way or feel sorry for me that I was in Auschwitz. I don’t know. I’ve been lying and pretended an image of me that really wasn’t my true self.

ISAACSON: For many years after you came to the United States, you didn’t talk to your children about it. You kept it a secret. And you became a psychologist and you were helping Vietnam veterans deal with post-traumatic stress. Tell me how you then decided to deal with your own PTSD.

EGER: Because I was honest with myself that I created a persona, a history that was not the true self. And I began to just use my past, actually, to let people know so they can remember and revisit the places where they’ve been and relive that experience and then revise your life.

ISAACSON: And so, you had to go back to Auschwitz. You went, as an adult, back to Auschwitz. Is that why?

EGER: Yes. To me it was important to go to a place and touch that place that I was sure that this is temporary and I’m going to die here, and I walked out of Auschwitz. So, today, I do recommend definitely to everyone to revisit where you’ve been, relive that experience, but don’t set up household there.

ISAACSON: Marianne, you became a psychologist, got your doctorate. And then your mother also did that afterwards.

ENGEL: Go ahead.

ISAACSON: Tell me how you processed and watched her change after the visit to Auschwitz.

ENGEL: She went back to the area where she had been living there, and she saw a man in a uniform and she started to panic. The old fear came back and she started to get very panicky. And then she suddenly remembered that she had a purse, and in the purse was an American passport. And that she could leave Auschwitz, but this man worked there and he couldn’t. And my father, who was with her when she walked out, said that she hopped, skipped, jumped, did cartwheels. And what happened afterwards is that her face changed. Her eyes didn’t have that fear in them anymore, and it was profound, really. And then her ability to help people. You know, she got her PhD in her 50s. So, anybody who’s watching this, whatever dream you have, look at my mother, what she’s accomplished, you can, and she did, and she has. And so, you know, I’m so proud of her and she’s had a phenomenal change because she let herself accept it.

ISAACSON: Dr. Edie, why did you want to write a book so badly?

EGER: I was very heavily relying on the story being told how good people do such terrible, very, very bad things. I think that was my duty to my parents so they didn’t want to die in vain.

ISAACSON: Why do you call them good people?

EGER: Because I don’t think we’re born with sin, and I think we’re born, and we learn to hate, we learn the Auschwitz mentality.

ISAACSON: How did your lessons of surviving Auschwitz, surviving the death of your mother, surviving all this, give you lessons that we can learn today?

EGER: It’s your attitude is the key word. It’s the way you look at everything as an opportunity. And Auschwitz was a classroom and an opportunity for an opportunity for me to develop the skills that I can now use to guide other people. I like the idea of guide. I like that much more than being a therapist. It’s not an illness. It’s a feeling that helps you to recognize that no matter what, you’re not a victim. It’s not your identity.

ISAACSON: Marianne, how has your mother’s story impacted your family, your kids? And why is it important to them after so many years?

EGER: My goodness, I’m making me teary just asking that question. For me, I think that my mother being so honest about herself and her own history and talking to the children about it, and the fact that she was able to write these books and to tell and all the great grandchildren can ask her whatever they want as well as our children too, of course, I think has made the hugest difference in their lives and their understanding of the way the world can be such a horrible place to people, but also such a loving place, because she is so loving. So, she has had this openness with them always. I think it’s critical to how they see the world. And for all of the people who are watching this, I know that many of you have parents or maybe you are parents who won’t tell your children your story. Please do it. The difference it’s made in our family is great.

ISAACSON: Dr. Edith Eger, Dr. Marianne Engel, thank you both so much for joining us.

EGER: Thank you.

ENGEL: Thank you.

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GOLODRYGA: Wow. What an incredible interview. What an amazing woman. Just her strength. All of these years later to carry so much love in her heart and saying that staying alive was the goal. And her daughter’s absolutely right. It’s so important to tell these stories. Some 80 years nearly after the Holocaust and World War II, there are only about 245,000 survivors left. We should never forget their stories.