How is COVID-19 Affecting Incarcerated Populations?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Now, some governments have been forced to release thousands of prisoners. Last week, Iran released 85,000. And it’s also happening across the United States. And the U.K. is also considering doing the same. New Jersey has already announced it’s releasing up to 1,000 low-risk inmates to curb the coronavirus spread in overcrowded and often unsanitary prisons. Lawrence Bartley is director of The Marshall Project’s “News Inside.” It’s a newspaper written for inmates. And he tells our Hari Sreenivasan, on Zoom, what this crisis means for the world’s invisible population.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARI SREENIVASAN: Lawrence Bartley, thanks for joining us. First, I want to ask, what are you hearing from prisoners inside about coronavirus, the stories that they have, or how they’re living with this?

LAWRENCE BARTLEY, DIRECTOR, THE MARSHALL PROJECT’S “NEWS INSIDE”: Unfortunately, I’m hearing a lot. They are suffering from a lack of information. They are — fear. They are panic-stricken. They’re worried about their family members because they have communication, but communication is limited in some places. The rules are different. But a lot of them are concerned with the fact that they don’t have the adequate cleaning supplies, in comparison to us on the outside, to prepare themselves or protect themselves against this virus.

SREENIVASAN: And what happens when they hear that there are either jail guards that have fallen sick or other prisoners that might be?

BARTLEY: Well, one person in particular, he reached out to me, and he said that he wished that the facility would have these thermal guns in which they can check the temperatures of guards coming in, because they don’t have it. Only the staff members have it. And staff members are coming in. And they are hearing — seeing reports on a news that — on people in different facilities, staff members, who have contracted this disease, and they’re afraid that they will get it.

SREENIVASAN: When people think of prisoners, they can’t practice social distancing. There is no freedom of movement. There is no opportunity to stay six feet away.

BARTLEY: Right. Let me paint a picture for you. Many prisoners live in dorms. And their bunks are right next to each other, and they have people on top of them like a bunk bed. So there isn’t any social distancing. Some facilities have closed jobs and programs. Now, they have regular jobs going around, cleaning-up jobs or maintenance jobs in facilities, that are canceled. So people are staying in their dorm areas. Even those who are in a cell, there’s a metal wall separating them, but it’s close, and the front of the gates open. So people can talk and they can sneeze and they even cough out. And you know that cough and sneeze and particles stay in the air for quite a long period of time. And this virus can survive on surfaces for quite a long period of time. And so social distancing doesn’t work for people incarcerated. There is no place for them to go. So this virus can pass on very easily, if we are not super careful.

SREENIVASAN: You said have had prisoners reach out to you. What kind of stories are they telling?

BARTLEY: Oh, they are telling me stories about not knowing. Like — having been, like, to for Mississippi, for instance, there are — some states are severely understaffed. They’re underpopulated. When the economy is doing well, people don’t want to take prison guard jobs. So they have less people to even — even working in prisons, so less people to write memos, to let the incarcerated population know, all right, visits are going to be shut down, whereas they had to just hear it from word to mouth, saying, visits are going to be shut down today because of coronavirus. Many of them only get their information through watching TV or listening to the radio. And then the information they get might be geared towards the public at large or a different state, but not personalized to their individual state. So they simply don’t know. And they can’t get the adequate cleaning supplies, like Purell or other hand sanitizers that we’re used to having. So — and a lot of facilities and states have outlawed or outruled bleach, because they think that people will use bleach as a weapon. But I’m hearing now that they’re allowing some semblance of water-downed bleach to come into the units to clean the showers and bathrooms. But many of the people have to share little chips of soap, in which they use to wash their hands. In one facility, a man told me there’s five sinks that 60 people use. And they have five sections next to the sink with chips of soap, and all of them have to share using those chips of soap, 60 people. And they worry about what that is healthy enough.

SREENIVASAN: And you also had a story about a New York corrections officer getting sick?

BARTLEY: Yes, a New York correction officer in Sing Sing unfortunately came down with the coronavirus. And what everyone should know that the walls are not only meant to keep people in. They’re meant to keep information from getting out and from information getting in. So we have reports of someone who was a correction officer that contracted it, but we don’t know where that person worked within the facility, whether that person was in close contact with incarcerated population. And so we don’t know. We even heard that there’s someone in an ICE detention facility in Elizabeth, New Jersey, who has a reputation to be one of the most dirtiest facilities in the country, that there’s a guard that tests positive for it as well. So, the problem just increases.

SREENIVASAN: The Marshall Project, for people who don’t know, is a nonprofit newsroom focused on criminal justice stories, criminal justice reform stories. You also recently had a map that you published that showed how different states were dealing with, say, visitation rights. What are the different methods that states are using?

BARTLEY: Well, a lot of states are closing visits from family members and friends. Some of them are even not allowing attorney visits. But they are letting staff come in. But people who are incarcerated, people on the outside are their lifelines. The phones is like one step. The visits are the second step. And the greatest step is the extended family visits, where people can spend the night with their family members for about 48 hours. And not to have that, that’s traumatizing for someone who’s incarcerated. But anyone incarcerated, but speaking for those who have — did a 180 from their criminal ways and want to make a change and want to be loving fathers, brothers and sons, and this kind of cripples their ability to stay in contact, with the same fear of not knowing what family members are going through. But prison administrators have to protect them. They have to protect everyone else from catching the virus. So many people are incarcerated who have reached out to me via e-mail, via call, via letters, they all understand.

SREENIVASAN: Do you think that there is a different level of care or attention paid to members of the prisons staff vs. the prisoners themselves?

BARTLEY: Absolutely. Prisoners who have symptoms of the flu are quarantined in some states, but none of them are telling me that they are tested for corona. And I’m hearing in the news that there are reports just coming out that they finally got the testing kits for people on the outside. So, you know civilians are going to be tested first. But people who are inside largely believe they are an invisible population, that no one really cares about them. They are exiled, because they did something bad. But for those who — like, for instance, like me, I was incarcerated at the age of 17. I did 27 years and two months. And I was, for decades — for to over two decades, I haven’t been the person I was who committed a crime in the first place. So I didn’t see myself as someone who was the lowest of the low, I always wanted to be included. I always want to be seen as equal, as a person. So, when — time like this, when testing kits are going around, and those testing kits are not being provided to the people who are incarcerated, they feel even more less than, and they worry about if they will be — potentially be forgotten enough to be sacrificed. So all these kind of fearful thoughts will swirl around in their head.

SREENIVASAN: So, Lawrence, what sent you inside?

BARTLEY: Well, unfortunately, at the age of 16, I was shot four times in a drive-by shooting. Before that, my parents had gotten divorced. I had moved from a middle-class neighborhood to more of an urban one, one where crime was the order of the day. It was a time of where crack had influenced my neighborhood greatly. And there was no trust for police officers back then. And, after being shot, I don’t know, I couldn’t go to police officers, because they were preying on my community. So, in order to keep myself safe, I did something stupid, and I end up getting a gun. And the gun was my sort of security. I had no intention of using it. But New York City in 1998, in the time I got arrested, New York had 2,242 murders by gun violence. So, that’s the time I was living in. So, I figured this gun would be my security. And a few friends and myself went to a movie theater, and I had the gun on me at night. And another group of teens came in making a lot of noise. They were arguing with a couple of the other patrons. And one of my friends told him to be quiet. And then they started yelling back and forth at us. And one of those individuals pulled out a gun and fired at us. And people in my section, my group of friends included, pull out guns started firing back. I fired one time. And I didn’t see anyone in front of me. I didn’t think anyone was there. I just want to fire in order to retreat. And I wanted to fire in order to be accepted, and I wanted to fire in order to be safe. And all that was going through the mind of a 17-year-old at the time. And I made the wrong choice. And, at the end, four people were injured, and one person was killed. And I was sentenced to 27 and 30 years to life.

SREENIVASAN: So, after you finished your 27 years, you built a newspaper paper that is delivered into prisons. Tell me about “News Inside.”

BARTLEY: Well, “News Inside” is an idea I had when I first got — when I was incarcerated, I went to parole board five times in seven months. I had a series of appeals that got me before the parole board. And I finally won my release. And I wrote an article about all the psychological trauma I went through, and balancing that with the way I felt compassion from the victim’s family, and how it played on the incarcerated individuals and myself. And that led me to earn a job at The Marshall Project. And when I got to Marshall Project, I looked at this treasure of stories that we had in our data — on our Web site that’s about criminal justice, because that’s what we do. We report on criminal justice news. And I thought that, wow, if people incarcerated had an opportunity to view these stories, it could not only be of a benefit to them mentally, it can change their lives, because I call these news you can use. People can use this. And so I pitched an idea to put our work in print and distribute it all over the country, because people incarcerated, they don’t have access to the Internet like you and I. And, luckily, it worked. And I promised The Marshall Project, if they allowed me to do this, in one year, I will guarantee that I will have them into 10 states and 20 facilities. But within one year’s time, we are in 38 states and 502 facilities. And I’m really proud of it.

SREENIVASAN: So, using “News Inside,” you launch a survey between The Marshall Project and Slate. Why was it important to find the political opinions of prisoners?

BARTLEY: Well, because, for one, when I was incarcerated — I told you I did 27 years — I began to think about my situation over and over. And I knew there was limited powers that a judge had to release me, after though my appeals were exhausted. And I knew that the only way I could get out early is if — with some form of legislative action. So, I began to pay attention. And so I knew that people who were in a situation that I was would pay attention to what’s going on legislatively in their states, and maybe what’s going on, on a national election state. And they were left out of it. Many states, people incarcerated can’t vote. Only states where everyone incarcerated can vote is Maine and Vermont. And there’s states like Florida, who just passed Amendment 4, allowing people who were formerly incarcerated to vote for the first time, even though they’re trying to repeal that through saying you can’t vote unless you — if you — unless you pay fines and fees. But I knew that people incarcerated had something to say, and they had an opinion. And I just wondered, just what if they were allowed to vote? I mean, what would this country look like? So, I put a survey inside “News Inside” with Slate. And my colleagues Nicole Lewis and Anna Flagg helped me out with it tremendously. And we got back over 8,000 responses and counting. And, usually, national polls have about 400 to 1,000 responses. So, I feel really proud that what we have is something that’s very unique.

SREENIVASAN: I want to ask you about The Zo. This is something that The Marshall Project partner with Topic on. What is it?

BARTLEY: The Zo is a phrase that was coined by someone who was incarcerated, and he called it The Twilight Zone, and he calls it The Zo for sure to represent the psychological imbalance that a person who is incarcerated faces on a day-to-day basis. It might — it’s not always linked to violence. It could be linked to not having — to not going to the school building at the same time every day, not getting the adequate amount of sheets, not — one rule — a rule could be one thing one day, this is approved one day, but the next day, it can be illegal, and a person can subject him or herself to solitary confinement as a result of it. So that’s basically The Zo.

SREENIVASAN: We have got different stories in there. One of them was called the drive-by. We might play a quick clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inmates are supposed to be awake to catch the list by telling the officer where he or she intends to go during the day. In most facilities, the officer taking the list speeds by in the dark while people are their cells routinely state,, mess hall, yard, school, vocational, hospital, as the officer look straight ahead and robotically record each person’s request. If you are still asleep or hesitate and, therefore, miss the zoom-by by a nanosecond, you are out of luck.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SREENIVASAN: It’s something that we just take for granted, just having some semblance of, well, control over our schedules, certainly, but just what is and what isn’t true from day to day. What does that do to you psychologically?

BARTLEY: Oh, like you just mentioned, the drive-by, when a person has to – – there’s five counts a day. One of them happens at 5:30 in the morning, and a person is asleep. Like, everyone — a lot of people are asleep at 5:30. And a person has to be up when the officer robotically walk by, taking a list, asking a person where he’s going to go today. A person slips one time, that person can be subject to a misbehavior report that will follow him or her all the way to the parole board maybe five, 10, 20 years later. And that can be torture, you know?

SREENIVASAN: Lawrence Bartley, director of “News Inside,” thanks so much for joining us.

BARTLEY: Thank you for having me, Ari.