How the Israel-Gaza Crisis Is Dividing American Jews

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: Raising temperatures, though, is this ongoing clash of cultures, really, over this war in the Middle East. So, canceled classes in Jewish schools, vandalized homes, synagogues locked up, the reality of an unprecedented surge of antisemitism in the United States that’s creating a climate of fear amongst Jewish communities. American Muslims are also facing a steep rise in incidents of Islamophobia, as the Israel Gaza conflict seems to replace debate with hate and violence. Author and journalist Emily Tamkin joins Michel Martin now to discuss all of this.

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MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Christiane. Emily Tamkin, thank you so much for joining us.

EMILY TAMKIN, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR: Of course. Thank you for having me.

MARTIN: You wrote this recent piece for “Slate” that, you know, really caught our attention. And you started by describing antisemitic incidents that you’ve experienced from the time you were a little kid. And so, for people who’ve never experienced that or don’t know anybody who has, would you just tell us like one or two of the things that you started your piece with?

TAMKIN: I started the piece with an incident from when I was in elementary school, that I still remember to this day, which was somebody who drawn a swastika on a bathroom stall. And there was this big assembly, and as a child, you don’t totally understand what’s going on, but I do remember just sobbing in the car later on because the idea that somebody could have this sort of hate toward Jews, including myself was really heartbreaking. And when you see that at a very young age and you experience that at a very young age it really, I think, can help shape your identity in a way that’s quite defensive and quite reactive. And so, I’ve always been very proud to be Jewish, but I think for many years as a young person, I really thought of that as being about fighting and standing up to antisemitism. And I still think that that is a part of Jewishness and Jewish identity, but I also think that only defining yourself through other people’s hatred and only defining yourself through your fear can be quite limiting and quite reductive. And if you’re not careful, can close you off to also seeing the pain and the fear that others are experiencing.

MARTIN: For people who haven’t had a chance to read it yet, and I hope that they will, you say, what should American Jews do with our fear? We’re scared. But right now, we have to be more than that. So, just — if you just start by telling me, like, why did you want to start the piece that way? And why did you want to write this piece to begin with?

TAMKIN: Of course. I started the piece with acknowledging my own history with antisemitism and my own fear and more broadly, with the fear that I know that many American Jews are feeling right now. According to a recent study that came out after this piece by the Jewish Federations of North America, 70 percent of American Jews feel more afraid and have — and are warier of increased antisemitism right now with Israel’s ongoing war with the horrific attack by Hamas in Israel, Israel’s ongoing war. And I started with that because I do think that it’s important to acknowledge that people are scared and that there are real threats to American Jews right now, and that I think we should speak up against those and call out antisemitism where we see it. And, not but, that that fear is not the only fear that’s being experienced right now. That is not the only pain that’s being experienced right now. And again, I think that fear can do one of two things. It can make you quite tribal and sort of only recognize your fear and your community’s fear, or alternatively, in a sad way, it can be an opening, an opportunity. So, I know that especially on college campuses that many American Jews, you know, they’re away from home, they’re quite young, they’re processing all of this, you know, on their own, I know that that fear is real, but I am quite sure that their Muslim American peers and Palestinian American and Palestinian colleagues are also feeling fear. And how do you have — how do you allow room for both? Speaking only for myself, I don’t think that American Jewish fear is an acceptable reason to shut down discussion and debate on America’s foreign policy or on Israeli politics. Emotions are heightened and we’re in quite a sensitive time. But U.S. foreign policy is also supporting ongoing bombardment of Gaza. And I don’t think it’s antisemitic to say that. In fact, I know it’s not antisemitic to say that. And I really do think that it’s important to distinguish between threats to American Jews, and — which exist and which we should be very comfortable speaking up against, right? The kosher dining hall at Cornell should not be threatened. An Israeli student on Columbia University’s campus should never have been beaten. However, does canceling a book about — a book talk from an author who’s written about a man in the West Bank, which Nathan Thrall did, or canceling Palestinian writers and authors and speakers, does that keep American Jews safer? And I would argue that no, it doesn’t. So, that’s why I wrote the piece and that’s what I was trying to say.

MARTIN: This isn’t the first time that Jews around the world, and American Jews in particular, have had disagreements with the way that Israel has conducted itself, both domestically and internationally, and they should be able to talk about that. Do you want to talk a little bit more about that?

TAMKIN: Sure. So, my book, “Bad Jews,” it looks at the last roughly 100 years of American Jewish identities and how we’ve formed our identities and rendered ourselves both legible to the wider country, but also to one another, and how we’ve tried to figure out what does it mean to be Jewish in America? What is — what’s the right set of politics to have in your own country and with respect to Israel, which for much of the 20th century, supporting Israel was really one pillar of many American Jewish communities? And for younger generations, especially though, not exclusively, that’s really been tested in recent years. You know, if you are in your 30s or your 20s, you’ve really only — and you’re an American Jew, you’ve really only seen the situation get more violent, right, and more seemingly hopeless. To put it another way, you know, the younger American Jews calling for a ceasefire can couch that argument in Jewish tradition and Jewish values. The people who are saying that they stand with Israel unequivocally, they can also catch that in Jewish history and Jewish values. And to say that either one is not Jewish as opposed to giving your interlocutor the space to make the argument and to have the debate and have the discussion, I think, one, I think it’s quite cruel to say that a person who is grieving and warning and angry and afraid isn’t Jewish. That they’re somehow an imposter in their Jewish grief and their Jewish fear and their Jewish pain. But it’s also not an argument, right? Because you’re just saying, well, you’re not Jewish so your argument doesn’t count. You’re not actually taking part in the discussion or the debate. You’re just saying that your interlocutor isn’t real. And I think, you know, there is an American Jewish tradition of doing that, but there are — I would suggest that that’s not the most useful tradition to hold up right now.

MARTIN: Are people basically saying that other people aren’t Jewish because they don’t agree with the — Israel’s conduct of the war, or at least raise questions about it? I mean, are people doing that?

TAMKIN: Absolutely. We’ve seen the Jews who have called for a ceasefire have been told that they’re not really Jewish. You know, we’ve also seen the Anti-Defamation League come out and say that anti-Zionism is antisemitism. And we should say that there are anti-Zionist Jews, right? There are professors at universities who do not consider the — of Jewish studies who do not consider themselves to be Zionist. And I think it’s perhaps worth asking if they or if Palestinian students who are critical of what happened to their own families, if they’re only motivated by hatred of Jewish people. You know, again, I understand that this is a time of heightened emotion and that people are very — that people are afraid, people are in pain, but it’s precisely for that reason that I think we should be treating each other in good faith, acknowledging each other’s fear and pain and not trying to shut down discussion, debate and argument.

MARTIN: I don’t want to get too far away from the current moment, which you’ve written so eloquently about. But I did want to ask if, you know, what you’re describing here, you know, groups and individuals or influential people who see themselves as pro-Israel denouncing people who have questions about — or who criticized Israel’s conduct in this war or its response to the, you know, vicious assault by Hamas on October 7th, people sort of denouncing them as antisemitic or anti-Israel. Is there a historical precedent for this? How did how did it start? Can you can you help us with that?

TAMKIN: And there’s absolutely a historical precedent for this. For much of the 20th century, as I said, Israel, really since its founding, but particularly after the wars in ’67 and ’73, to be an American Jew, in many American Jewish communities, meant to support Israel. And as the reality on the ground in Israel has changed, many American Jews, particularly of younger generations, have become less comfortable with that. And so, even before October 7th, we were in this moment of push and pull between what has been and what will be and sort of it’s a political dispute, it’s a generational dispute. Interestingly, for the past — for much of the past year, because the current Israeli government is so far-right and so extreme and says horrible things, not only about Palestinians, but also about LGBTQ people and reform Jews, but just the largest denomination here in the U.S. and all sorts of other groups, the liberal Jewish mainstream in the United States was becoming increasingly critical of the Israeli government supportive of the pro-democracy protesters. On October 7th, you see these same groups and elected officials come out and just say, I stand with Israel, which I think — I also wrote about this personally, I think is quite understandable, right? And in that moment, you want to support people who are reeling from an attack. But in the months since, I think the sort of liberal American Jewish mainstream has tried to sort out in a very polarizing moment, right, what what it means to stand with Israel. Does that mean you’re supporting the government? Does it mean that you are supporting the government, but saying, OK, now, we need a two- state solution? Doesn’t mean calling for Netanyahu’s resignation? Does it mean calling for — does it mean standing with the Israelis who are calling for a ceasefire, right? So, I think we were in a polarized moment before October 7th, but in times of crisis, that polarization is exacerbated. And I think that’s what we’re seeing in American Jewish politics today.

MARTIN: I’ll read what you said, and I’m just asking who — to whom are you directing this? You said, I do not want American Jews, at this moment, to reduce ourselves to our fear. We are entitled to our fear. But we are also simultaneously capable of nuance and empathy, and solidarity, and refusal to see ourselves only as the objects of antisemitism. To whom do you make this appeal?

TAMKIN: So, that — this is — obviously, this is a personal appeal, and I hope that people in their own individual lives can find it in themselves to do that, even though it may be hard and even though they are afraid, and they are in a moment of pain, right, to just going about your own life, to be able to extend that same thing to others, that same empathy that you’re craving to others. It’s also a political request. You know, I think there has been much — many have commented on what a scary moment this is for American Jews, particularly given Jewish history. I think that’s completely valid. However, we should also note that we are afforded protections by the state that — and has not always been the case in American Jewish or in Jewish history. That’s a very important distinction. We are not being discriminated against by the state. And so, I think, you know, to hear a member of Congress call for Palestinians to be deported from this country or to hear Islamophobia not be as forcefully denounced by political leaders or by people in the media or of — you know, I’m a member of the media. So, I’m chastising my own, but — or generally, you know, it’s personal, but it’s also political. And the freedom of assembly and the right to political expression, you know, that’s — I want that for American Jews, but not only for American Jews.

MARTIN: You know, one of the things that sort of struck me is that is that how some of the people who’ve spoken out about what happened on October 7th have really spoken to the sense of being alone or feeling alone, like nobody else cares. And one of the points you make in your piece is that, yes, a lot of people care. Jewish people in America are not alone. You know, the president of the United States has expressed his solidarity and concern and care. You know what I mean? So, I’m just wondering like, what do you think that the divide — what other divides are there apart from generation? Is it that some people still feel very alone and don’t see allies or what do you think it is?

TAMKIN: Yes. I mean, I think you’re completely correct to point out that it’s not only generational. You know, I’ve spoken to people who are much older than me who have expressed real concern over what’s happening to Palestinians in Gaza. I’ve spoken to people my age or younger who have — let’s say are to my right on some of these issues. I think — you know, and I think some would say, well, it’s about how close they are to Israel. Because, you know, roughly half of American Jews have never been to Israel. And so, if you feel a closer tie to that country — to the country, if you have friends there, if you have family there, that can also impact your decision. Although, I should say that many of the people I know who are most critical of Israel are critical because they’ve spent as much time there as they have. We should also note, I mean, there are several factors. So, most American Jews, their families came over in the 19th or 20th centuries, and they’re descended from Central and Eastern Europeans, there are also American Jews whose families came over later. So, for example, Persian Jews who escaped Iran or Jews who left the former Soviet Union, they’re likelier — or many are likelier to have family in Israel, and many are closer to their own sort of perceived moment of — not perceived, their own moment of trauma and departure. And so, the State of Israel looms larger in their Jewishness and their own understanding of self. And so, it’s — I don’t think you can point to any one thing.

MARTIN: One of the things you point out in your piece is that these are — these kinds of conversations take place in Israel all the time, and especially among people who spend a lot of time there. So, I just kind of wonder why you feel like people who are here in the United States feel kind of entitled to be so censorious about it. You know what I mean?

TAMKIN: Yes. I think that — I mean, first of all, I don’t want to overstate the size of the Israeli left or how many in Israel are calling for a ceasefire. I do think that often people — that often Israelis are far more critical of the Israeli government of what the state is doing than people in the United States. There are two reasons for this. The first is that I think many American Jews see it as, well, it’s not my place, right? They’re living there, so they can criticize. I’m here, so I should — I can’t. And if I do, it will sort of allow other Americans to criticize Israel. And I think the second thing is that for many American Jews, Israel is — I want to be careful how I say this, but I do think that for many American Jews, Israel is still an idea as well as a country. And that’s not to say that any American Jews who care passionately about it don’t have family there, don’t spend a lot of time there, don’t have friends there, of course, but I do think that there is a tendency in American Jewish politics to speak of an Israel that is somewhat divorced from what’s happening on the ground. And there are people who spend much more time on Israel particularly than I do who have said the same. So, I feel comfortable saying that. And I think that’s a difference as well.

MARTIN: Did you hesitate before writing this piece?

TAMKIN: I did. You know, I, first want to say that, you know, of course, this is a challenging time to be a writer or a journalist, but I’m not in Israel and I’m not in Gaza. And I just think that as an American journalist, I feel a responsibility to acknowledge that there are people who are actually in — like, that’s actually challenging. That’s actual danger. I hesitated because I — not even so much that, oh, what if people yell at me, but I do want to be sensitive to this moment is the pain that people are in and to the fear that people are experiencing. And ultimately, I decided to write it not despite that, but because of it.

MARTIN: Say more.

TAMKIN: Because I think that it is important to acknowledge American Jewish fear and American Jewish pain. And I also think it’s important to encourage people to see that not as a reason to turn ourselves off from the feelings of others or to shut down foreign policy debate. You know, I really — it’s because I want to be sensitive in fear and pain that I think it’s important to both acknowledge it and also to ask people to consider it as an opportunity to hear others narratives and to hear their pain and their fear. And that I — you know, speaking only for myself, as an American Jew, I do not want my fear to be used to chill speech or discussion. And so, I felt a responsibility with the small platform that I have in that way to put that forth.

MARTIN: Emily Tamkin, thanks so much for talking with us.

TAMKIN: Thank you for your time.