Is There a New Wave of Unionization In America?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, HOST: Labor unions are back in the spotlight, with President Biden recently reaching a deal to avert a potentially damaging rail strike. Luz Shuler is the president of the AFL-CIO, which represents over 12 million American workers. She joins Michel Martin to discuss what lies ahead for the labor force.

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MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Christiane. President Liz Shuler, thank you so much for joining us.

LIZ SHULER, PRESIDENT, AFL-CIO: Thank you, Michel. It’s great to be with you.

MARTIN: So, we’re speaking with you at a time when there has been a wave of unionization. Something that we haven’t really seen in this country for decades. And what makes this kind of distinctive is not just the level of activity, but the kinds of people who are unionizing. People who have not been before. I mean, obviously, Starbucks has gotten a lot of attention. The Amazon warehouse has gotten a lot of attention. But, you know, a congressional office, you know, an Apple store, you know, Minor League Baseball players. Why do you think that is?

SHULER: Well, I would just start with the fact that workers were fed up and fired up with how they were being treated in the economy even before the pandemic. And it was simmering below the surface. And then certainly, through the pandemic, being called essential throughout that whole period of time. And then now it’s starting to come out, being treated as expendable. You know, we’re seeing CEO pay skyrocketing. Companies making billions of dollars in profits. But yet, not being able to find just a little bit to share with the workers who help them make the profits and make the products. And so, workers are starting to come together and raise their voices and say enough is enough. And they’re finally seeing unions us the pathway to doing that. Unions are more popular in the U.S., as you mentioned, than the last 60 years. I think it’s 71 percent of the public supports unions. So, we’re in this environment where people are wanting more. They want a voice at the table. They want to have better treatment in the workplace. And of course, better pay and benefits. So, I think it’s just about this notion of people finding your power.

MARTIN: You know, the trend that you cited about this, the sort of difference between what people at the very top are making and what many of the workers are making. That’s when a trend that’s gone on for far longer than the last couple of years. So, what is it about the current moment that you think is contributing to this? Do you think, in part, it’s because of the COVID pandemic?

SHULER: Absolutely. And it’s been growing and it continues to grow. So, last year, CEO to worker pay was 299 to 1. This year, it’s 324 to 1. So, the trend is continuing. The gulf of inequality is widening. But — and people are finally waking up knowing that through this pandemic where, you know, workers were working more and more with less. They were putting their health on the line, literally. You know, sacrificing to get us through. You know, I saw bakery workers, for example, who worked 24 hours to make the snacks that people were enjoying on their couches while they were watching, you know, Netflix. I mean, those things were going unnoticed and undervalued. And people, you know, weren’t spending time with their kids because they were working so many hours. And so, I think the pandemic definitely shined a more intense light on it. But it’s been happening for some time, as you said.

MARTIN: Is there a particular workplace or group of workers where their efforts to form a union was surprising even to you? Somebody who’s been a part of the labor for most of your adult life.

SHULER: Absolutely. We’re seeing organizing happening in every sector of the economy. And it used to be — and I think there’s still stereotypes out there that unions are, you know, of the past and they were for certain types of work or industries, like, the tough jobs that were unsafe. Well, fast forward to today, workers are organizing in pretty much every sector of the economy. And — you know, the technology workers and retail workers, Apple Store. Who knew, right? Who would have thought that was possible? We’re seeing video game developers who are suffering under extreme working conditions in the sense they’re working these crunch periods where they have zero breaks and are working, you know, 14-hour shifts. And, you know, I think about the most unusual, you know, maybe — you know, thinking about the professional sector where Mt. Sinai Medical Center researchers came together. And graduate student researchers at the University of California who said, you know what? We don’t want sexual harassment and discrimination to be a part of the process to determine whether we get ahead in our careers. So, we need a more powerful voice. Even Canada’s workers are coming together. Because that’s an industry that’s growing, no pun intended. But, you know, the notion that you can have an NDA ruling your life in an industry like that and not be able to move from employer to employer and take your knowledge with you. So, they’re coming together collectively in a union to sit across the table from their employers and have more power to bargain the working conditions and the pay and benefits that they deserve.

MARTIN: Let’s look at it from the other direction that even though, as you pointed out, a lot of people say that they approve of unions and that the level of, sort of, activity around union formation and membership is high, it’s still — union membership itself is still at a multi-decade low. And just in 1983, maybe about 20 percent of the U.S. labor force belonged to a union. In 2021, it was a 14 million workers, that’s just 10 percent of American workers. So, why do you think that is? Why this long period of decline?

SHULER: Well, in 1935, when our labor laws were passed, it was the default that workers should have the freedom to come together and exercise their rights and form unions. And slowly over time, that law has been chipped away. And not many people realize today, the labor law has tilted in favor of corporations. If you try to form a union, you’ll be harassed and intimidated. And in some cases, fired. And the company gets a slap on the wrist. There’s really not a consequence for them. It’s a cost of doing business. And in fact, there is an industry now, a multi-billion-dollar industry of union busting. And so, we saw most recently, for example, at Amazon, where warehouse workers wanted to come together, form a union, and they were harassed, surveilled, followed into the bathrooms with flyers so that, you know, they didn’t have a moments peace without hearing anti-union messages. Called and to captive audience meetings. So, these tactics of the corporate behavior have really been a barrier for workers to really form unions, because there is a fear. I mean, you can imagine the fear that workers have when they want to exercise their rights and they’re getting these kinds of messages from the corporation.

MARTIN: But that’s not new either, though. I mean, that’s not a new — the idea that, you know, it can be hard to join a union. That it isn’t easy to do. That’s not new either. So, why do you think that union membership fell — has fallen to such low levels in recent years? Is it that the work itself changed, or is that do you think that workers maybe didn’t see this it as being relevant to the work that they were doing? What’s the bigger picture here in your opinion?

SHULER: Sure. And as the nature of work is changing and certainly our trade laws have an impact on it where we saw manufacturing decline, which is heavily unionized. You know, our textile and clothing industry. Some of the bedrock industries that were unionized in years past that have been offshored and outsourced, certainly has an impact on that. And then pair that with the fact that the new and emerging industries aren’t unionized. And I think workers, as unions have declined. Many people don’t know people in unions anymore. And so, you used to have a cousin or an uncle or, you know, a sister in a union. You knew what the benefits were. And then now, as numbers have declined, people aren’t as familiar. And so, pair that with the risks that are involved and I think that is the combination of why numbers have been so stubborn. But what has changed is that people are starting to see, hey, there’s this thing called a union and we can form one, and we can have more power and actually have a collective bargaining agreement that we negotiate with our employer to make not only the working conditions better, but to have a voice, recognition, respect, and to help the company actually be more profitable, because who knows the work better than the workers on the front lines?

MARTIN: You talk about like the benefits of labor unions and the fact that people can organize and they are stronger collectively than they are individually, especially around things, not just like pay, but also working conditions. But what would you say to people who are — who that the unions have too often been on the wrong side of important issues that have actually inhibited the drives towards social justice and equity? Like I’m thinking in some of the earlier sexual harassment cases, like at the Mitsubishi plant. The one of the first sort of record — one of the first, I would say, pivotal sexual harassment cases at the Mitsubishi plant in Ohio, where you are now, where the women workers went to their union first for help when they were being harassed on the line and the union had nothing for them. And then, of course, more recently, there are those who look at police unions and they say that the police unions are actually the ones who are standing in the way of improvements to policies that would lead to more public safety and less harassment. So, what do you say to that?

SHULER: Well, I would say that unions are not without flaws, but for — throughout our history, we have been on the forefront of fighting for, not only economic justice, but racial and social justice. And certainly, in — as a woman leader of the federation, things like sexual harassment and discrimination are at the top of our list in terms of how we fight back, using the tool of collective bargaining in the workplace. And, you know, as is with the country, we evolve culturally and, you know, we learn. And so, the unions are not impervious to that, right? Our leadership has changed and evolved over time. And as I sit in this seat today, I see women workers, we are half the workforce, we are half the labor movement. And now, women are starting to rise into leadership, and we are a democracy. And so, we are, you know, running for office in our unions. And so, the notion of how the economy evolves, how our culture evolves, is definitely reflected in the way our unions operate and our leadership structures. And so, I’m excited because I think unions, the collective bargaining, are the most powerful tool for social change, economic and racial justice, and really being at the forefront of innovation in the workplace.

MARTIN: But to that question of innovation, is it possible that part of the reasons that unions have fallen out of favor, that some people say they don’t want to belong to one, is that they are not seen as the forefront of innovation, they are seen as agents to protect the lowest common denominator, the bad actors and the bad apples, as opposed to being partners in innovation and moving the economy forward? Do you think that that’s — is that part of it? It’s not just sort of a money problem, I don’t want to pay the dues or free rider problem, I don’t pay the dues, I don’t want to do that, it’s time consuming, or is it a perception problem, that unions aren’t on the side of the future? Could it be that?

SHULER: I think there is a perception problem that, you know, unions are, again, of the past, that were not nimble or flexible. But it couldn’t be further from the case, because we have been innovating and changing with the economy since our inception. And so, if you look at the technological change, every industrial revolution, we were evolving and changing, and training workers up to take advantage of the next opportunity. Building in the protections, the guardrails, for things like, how is technology going to change your job? Well, don’t you want to have a voice in how that happens? So, we are more relevant than ever, but it is a matter of using the tool in the way that workers want to see it used. And it can be very modern and dynamic, and innovative. And so, that’s our challenge, is that in the next frontier of work, where we are all thinking about artificial intelligence and automation and robots, how can we shape the future, or work to work for working people? ANd we think unions are the tool that can make that happen.

MARTIN: One of the things that really brought the union into public attention was, just recently, the potential of a railroad strike was averted. I mean — and that would have been, frankly, devastating to the economy in the current moment, just as, you know, the supply chain disruptions are already a drag on the economy. What were some of the issues at play there?

SHULER: The workers were basically looking for, not only improvements in wages, because they’ve been working such long hours, but also in conditions where they have no paid sick leave in this industry. And I don’t think people realized that. Not only did they not have paid sick days, so if they wanted to go to the doctor, it would be an unpaid day, but they also would get disciplined if they did it during a high impact time, you know, during their shipping periods. So, clearly going to the doctor is a priority. We should have the ability to seek medical attention if we need it. And so, the rail workers said, that was one of the most important issues on the table. So, that they would not lose their jobs if they chose to go to the doctor and seek medical attention. So, during that negotiation, the real companies really dug in and not only because, you know, they didn’t see the rail workers as the essential workers that they had said all along, you know, we prioritize workers, thank you for getting us through this pandemic. And then, when it came time to negotiate the contract, they became essentially disposable. And so, I think the rail workers were just saying, enough is enough. We’ve been sitting at the table for two and a half years. We need a contract. And so, that’s where the presidential emergency board came in to finally call the question and the Biden administration and Secretary Walsh, you know, were helpful in bringing the parties together. And finally, reaching this tentative deal, which is now out for ratification over the next several months.

MARTIN: Well, you know, of course you point out here, you’ve got Democrats in control of both Houses of Congress, nominally but, you know, by slim margins, and you’ve got a president who is very — who’s made it very clear that he prioritizes the needs of workers that he thinks have been neglected in recent decades. What if that changes? Do you think that the current move toward the level of union activity will abate? I mean, I have to point out like 267 states, and this isn’t even just a federal issue, but 27 states have passed so-called right to work laws that make it harder to unionize, that make it easier to opt out, that certain unions of their collective bargaining rights, particularly public sector unions, other than generally police and fire in a lot of these places. And so, do you think that things will change if the politics of the country change in the next couple of weeks?

SHULER: Well, certainly having worker friendly elected officials in office to look out and have our backs is a critical priority for the labor movement, and we are going to work really hard in these midterm elections to show the connection between the ballot box and working conditions. You know, we’ve had historic investments. This Biden administration has been the most pro-union administration in history. Just in the last year, we’ve seen record levels of investment in infrastructure, in, you know, things like the chips bill, where we are going to manufacture in this country to make us more competitive. And then, certainly in the Inflation Reduction Act to invest in a clean energy economy, which is going to create, you know, millions of jobs over the course of decades. So, it’s up to us to really unpack all of those victories, connect them to this upcoming election so that workers really see the difference when you elect pro-union candidates to office. But whether it’s going to change or not, I don’t think that an election really will stop the momentum we are seeing among working people. Whether you have, you know, a pro-union president in the White House or not, working people are out demanding, right? They are raising their voices. They’re stepping into their power and organizing. And so, that is what we are seeing, is the momentum is happening out there because people are so fed up, and they are fired up.

MARTIN: Liz Shuler, thanks so much for talking with us.

SHULER: Thank you so much. Appreciate you.