January 14, 2025

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & CO." HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

WE HAVE THE LATEST ON THE CONTENTIOUS CONFIRMATION HEARING FOR TRUMP'S DEFENSE SECRETARY PICK PETE HEGSETH.

>>> THEN, WITH FIRE WEATHER RISK AT ITS HIGHEST, I ASK FORMER CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR JERRY BROWN WHAT MORE COULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE MOST FIRE-PROOF STATE.

>>> AND IS THE WORLD READY FOR THE NEXT PANDEMIC?

THE DIRECTOR-GENERAL OF THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION JOINS ME FROM GENEVA.

>>> ALSO ON THE PROGRAM -- >> THERE IS PROBABLY NO PLACE SAFE FROM CLIMATE CHANGE RISKS AND THE INCREASED RISK OF CATASTROPHIC WEATHER.

>> HARI SREENIVASAN SPEAKS WITH BLOOMBERG BUSINESS REPORTER LESLIE KAUFMAN ABOUT THE CALIFORNIA FIRES WREAKING FINANCIAL HAVOC.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & CO." IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

CONFIRMATION HEARINGS FOR TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NOMINEES BEGAN TODAY WITH ONE OF THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL UP FIRST, PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S DEFENSE SECRETARY PICK.

HE'S BEEN FACING A SENATE GRILLING ABOUT HIS QUALIFICATIONS, HIS ALLEGED ALCOHOL ABUSE AND SEXUAL ASSAULT AND STEERING THEN PRESIDENT TRUMP TO PARDON U.S.

SOLDIERS CONVICTED OF WAR CRIMES.

HEGSETH CLAIMS HE'LL BE, QUOTE, A CHANGE AGENT AT THE PENTAGON.

>> THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE UNDER DONALD TRUMP WILL ACHIEVE PEACE THROUGH STRENGTH.

AND IN PURSUING THESE AMERICA FIRST NATIONAL SECURITY GOALS WILL REMAIN PATRIOTICALLY APOLITICAL AND STRIDENTLY CONSTITUTIONAL, UNLIKE THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, POLITICS SHOULD PLAY NO PART IN MILITARY MATTERS.

WE ARE NOT REPUBLICANS.

WE ARE NOT DEMOCRATS.

WE ARE AMERICAN WARRIORS.

OUR STANDARDS WILL BE HIGH AND THEY WILL BE EQUAL, NOT EQUITABLE.

>> NOW HIS CRITICS CHARGE THAT HE IS WHOLLY UNQUALIFIED TO LEAD THIS OR ANY OTHER MASSIVE GOVERNMENT AGENCY, ESPECIALLY GIVEN HIS QUESTIONING ON WHETHER WOMEN AND OTHER MINORITIES ARE FIT TO SERVE.

SENATOR ELIZABETH WARREN NOTED THAT HE HAS CHANGED HIS TUNE SINCE BEING NOMINATED.

>> LET ME MAKE A DECISION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THAT 32 DAYS.

YOU GOT A NOMINATION FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP.

NOW I'VE HEARD OF DEATH BED CONVERSIONS, BUT THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE HEARD OF A NOMINATION CONVERSION.

AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND THAT MANY WOMEN SERVING IN THE MILITARY RIGHT NOW MIGHT THINK THAT IF YOU CAN CONVERT SO RAPIDLY YOUR LONG-HELD AND AGGRESSIVELY PURSUED VIEWS IN JUST 32 DAYS THAT 32 DAYS AFTER YOU GET CONFIRMED, MAYBE YOU'LL JUST REVERSE THOSE VIEWS AND GO BACK TO THE OLD GUY WHO SAID STRAIGHT UP WOMEN DO NOT BELONG IN COMBAT.

>> NOW CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT LAUREN FOX IS ON CAPITOL HILL WITH THE LATEST FROM THE HEARINGS.

LAUREN, WELCOME.

YOU WERE WATCHING AND TAKING NOTE.

WHAT STRUCK YOU?

HOW DID IT FEEL IN THERE?

>> YEAH, I MEAN, IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING BECAUSE WE WERE ALL HIGHLY ANTICIPATING THE SERIES OF QUESTIONS FROM SENATOR JONI ERNST.

NOW SHE IS A VETERAN HERSELF.

SHE IS A SEXUAL ASSAULT SURVIVOR, AND ALL EYES WERE ON HER BECAUSE AFTER HER INITIAL AND FIRST MEETING WITH PETE HEGSETH, SHE EXPRESSED THAT SHE STILL HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS NOMINATION AND HIS VIEWS.

SHE THEN HAD A SUBSEQUENT MEETING WITH HIM, AND TODAY, YOU KNOW, ALL EYES WERE ON HOW SHE WAS GOING TO ADDRESS HIM AND WHETHER OR NOT SHE SHOWED ANY SORT OF PUSHING OF HIS POSITIONS IN THE PAST, GIVEN THE FACT THAT SHE HAD EXPRESSED SOME QUESTIONS PREVIOUSLY.

NOW IN HER LINE OF QUESTIONING, I THOUGHT IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING THAT SHE STARTED OUT BY SAYING THAT SHE HAD HAD SOME FRANK CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM IN PRIVATE.

SHE ASKED HIM TO CONFIRM FOR THE AUDIENCE THAT IN FACT THEY HAD HAD THOSE FRANK CONVERSATIONS.

BUT THEN HER LINE OF QUESTIONING REALLY WAS PRETTY FRIENDLY IN TERMS OF HOW SHE ASKED HIM TO ADDRESS HIS PAST COMMENTS ON WOMEN SERVING IN COMBAT ROLES, THAT SHE MADE CLEAR THAT HE HAD EVOLVED ON THAT ISSUE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS A REALLY NOTABLE MOMENT.

ANOTHER MOMENT THAT STUCK OUT TO ME WAS THE FACT THAT SENATOR TIM KAINE HAD MAYBE AND PERHAPS THE MOST DIRECT LINE OF QUESTIONING ABOUT SOME OF THE PAST ALLEGATIONS ABOUT HEGSETH'S BEHAVIOR.

>> NOW, IF IT HAD BEEN A SEXUAL ASSAULT, THAT WOULD BE DISQUALIFYING TO BE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, WOULDN'T IT?

>> IF IT'S A FALSE CLAIM THEN AND A FALSE CLAIM NOW -- >> IF IT HAD BEEN A SEXUAL ASSAULT, THAT WOULD BE DISQUALIFYING TO BE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE, WOULDN'T IT?

>> THAT WAS A FALSE CLAIM.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A HYPOTHETICAL.

>> SO YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHETHER SOMEONE WHO HAS COMMITTED A SEXUAL ASSAULT IS DISQUALIFIED FROM BEING SECRETARY OF DEFENSE?

>> SENATOR, I KNOW IN MY INSTANCE, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT MY INSTANCE ONLY, IT WAS A FALSE CLAIM.

>> BUT YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU CHEATED ON YOUR WIFE AND THAT YOU CHEATED ON THE WOMAN BY WHOM YOU HAD JUST FATHERED A CHILD.

YOU HAVE ADMITTED THAT.

>> I WILL ALLOW YOUR WORDS TO SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

>> YOU'RE NOT RETRACTING THAT TODAY.

>> AND OBVIOUSLY DEMOCRATS WERE REALLY FRUSTRATED WITH SOME OF HIS ANSWERS.

THEY WERE ALSO REALLY FRUSTRATED OVERALL WITH THE FACT THAT HEGSETH DID MEET WITH THE TOP DEMOCRAT ON THIS COMMITTEE, JACK REED, BUT HE DID NOT MEET WITH ANY OF THE OTHER DEMOCRATS.

AND, YOU KNOW, THIS CAME UP TIME AND TIME AGAIN.

ELIZABETH WARREN PUSHED HIM ON WHY HE DID NOT HAVE A PRIVATE CONVERSATION WITH HER.

GARY PETERS ALSO SAID THAT HE WAS WILLING AND ABLE TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION, AND INSTEAD HEGSETH'S SCHEDULE WAS FULL.

THEY NEVER WERE ABLE TO FIND A TIME TO MEET.

I SHOULD JUST NOTE THAT ON CAPITOL HILL, WHEN YOU DECLINE TO MEET WITH A SENATOR OR YOU DECLINE TO MAKE TIME IN YOUR SCHEDULE TO MEET WITH A SENATOR, THAT REALLY CAN PLAY OUT IN FIREWORKS IN A PUBLIC HEARING.

>> YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION STILL IS, ARE THEY GOING TO DETERMINE THAT HE IS QUALIFIED OR NOT?

AND THERE WAS A LOT OF PUSHBACK FROM, AS YOU SAID, ELIZABETH WARREN, JACK REED AND TIM KAINE YOU JUST SHOWED.

BUT ALSO SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH WHO IS HERSELF AN IRAQ WAR VETERAN, A DOUBLE AMPUTEE.

AND SHE ASKED HIM CLEAR QUESTIONS ON COULD HE EVEN ANSWER THE NAMES OF THE MEMBERS OF THE ALLIANCE CALLED ASEAN IN THE INDO-PACIFIC.

COULD HE ACTUALLY ANSWER ONE OF THREE MILITARY CONTRACTS THAT A SECRETARY OF DEFENSE WOULD HAVE TO BE INVOLVED IN NEGOTIATING, AND HE COULD NOT.

AND SHE AGAIN PUSHED HIM ON WOMEN, GIVEN HER OWN COMBAT EXPERIENCE.

AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT, IN PART, THIS COMMENT THAT HE HAD MADE TO SEAN RYAN ON THE SHOW BACK EARLIER LAST YEAR.

LET'S JUST LISTEN TO WHAT HEGSETH SAID THEN.

>> I'M STRAIGHT-UP JUST SAYING WE SHOULD NOT HAVE WOMEN IN COMBAT ROLES.

IT HASN'T MADE US MORE EFFECTIVE, HASN'T MADE US MORE LETHAL, HAS MADE FIGHTING MORE COMPLICATED.

>> YOU KNOW, LAUREN, I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO FORMER SECRETARIES OF DEFENSE THAT POINT OUT THAT WOMEN MAKE UPLE IS TO 20% OF AMERICAN ARMED FORCES AND ACTIVE DUTY FORCES, THAT IT WOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE ANY KIND OF FIGHTING FORCE BY REMOVING WOMEN OR THE OTHER MINORITIES WHO ACTUALLY SERVE.

AND SO I WANT TO ASK YOU, WHEN HE SAYS IN HIS OPENING STATEMENT, "WE ARE COMMITTED TO -- I THINK HE SAYS EQUALITY, NOT EQUITY, WHAT DID THAT MEAN?

>> YEAH, TIME AND TIME AGAIN, HEGSETH WAS PUSHED ON THIS ISSUE BY A LOT OF DEMOCRATS, BUT ALSO LIKE I NOTED EARLIER, SENATOR JONI ERNST PUSHED HIM ON THIS QUESTION.

AND HIS ANSWER HAS REALLY EVOLVED SINCE THAT INTERVIEW.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE POINTS THAT HE IS MAKING NOW IS THAT HE BELIEVES THAT WOMEN CAN SERVE IN COMBAT ROLES IF THEY MEET THE SAME STANDARDS AND IF THOSE STANDARDS HAVE NOT BEEN DEPLETED OVER TIME.

HE DOESN'T GET MORE SPECIFIC, WHAT STANDARDS IS HE REFERRING TO THERE.

IS HE TALKING ABOUT VARIOUS STANDARDS OF THE ARMED SERVICE?

IS HE TALKING ABOUT SOME OTHER KIND OF STANDARD?

AND I THINK THAT THAT IS STILL A QUESTION THAT REALLY HASN'T BEEN ANSWERED IN THIS HEARING IS SPECIFICALLY WHAT STANDARDS IS HE TALKING ABOUT.

>> LAUREN FOX, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>>> NOW IN LOS ANGELES, FIREFIGHTERS ARE BRACING AS HARD WINDS BLOW IN ONCE AGAIN.

THE STORM PREDICTION CENTER HAS ISSUED A RED FLAG WARNING.

ITS HIGHEST FIRE RISK LEVEL.

AT LEAST 24 PEOPLE ARE NOW CONFIRMED DEAD SINCE THESE WILDFIRES ERUPTED.

THE TOTAL AREA BURNED IS ABOUT 60 SQUARE MILES, WHICH IS LARGER THAN PARIS, AND EVEN AS THE FLAMES SPREAD, A POLITICAL BLAME GAME HAS BEGUN.

PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP SMEARS DEMOCRATIC LEADERS IN CALIFORNIA AS, QUOTE, INCOMPETENT, SAYING OF GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM, THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT.

BUT THESE CRITICISMS ONLY DISTRACT FROM THE BIGGER PICTURE OF OUR RAPIDLY WARMING PLANET.

FORMER GOVERNOR JERRY BROWN, A CALIFORNIA POLITICAL ICON MADE THE CLIMATE CRISIS A MAJOR FOCUS OF HIS ADMINISTRATION, AND HE IS JOINING US NOW FROM NORTHERN CALIFORNIA.

GOVERNOR BROWN, WELCOME BACK TO OUR PROGRAM.

YOU KNOW, IT SEEMS WE ALWAYS NEED TO GET YOUR WISDOM WHEN WE ARE FACED WITH THESE MASSIVE CRISES IN YOUR STATE AND ELSEWHERE.

CAN I FIRST START BY ASKING YOU, THEREFORE, TO LAY OUT WHAT CALIFORNIA HAS DONE OVER THE YEARS.

IT'S KNOWN TO BE, QUOTE, UNQUOTE, THE MOST FIRE PROOF STATE IN THE NATION.

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LET ME JUST DISTINGUISH TWO FUNDAMENTAL POINTS.

MITIGATION OF CLIMATE CHANGE, THAT'S REDUCING EMISSIONS, AND RESILIENCE, WHICH IS PREPARING AND DEALING AND CONFRONTING THE CONSEQUENCES OF A WARMING PLANET OR NATIONS.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHERE YOUR QUESTION GOES, WHAT'S CALIFORNIA BEEN DOING.

IT'S SPENT MORE MONEY ON PREPARING FOR FIRES THAN ANY OTHER STATE OR THAT IN RECENT YEARS, AT ANY OTHER TIME IN ITS HISTORY.

AND GENERALLY SPEAKING, THE CALIFORNIA FIRE SERVICES ARE DEEMED AMONG THE BEST IN THE WORLD.

AND THEY REALLY ARE QUITE EXCELLENT, AND HAVE THROWN THEMSELVES INTO THIS IN AN EXTRAORDINARY WAY.

CALIFORNIA HAS BEEN WORKING ON THEIR FORESTS IN WAYS THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS UTTERLY FAILED TO DO.

SO THEY DO PLANNED BURNS.

THEY MITIGATE BRUSH.

THEY DO ALL SORTS -- AND THEY PREPOSITION ENGINES AND INFRASTRUCTURE AND STUFF THAT COULD BE USED TO FIGHT FIRES.

AND THERE IS EXERCISES.

SO CALIFORNIA IS DOING QUITE A LOT.

BUT IS THAT ENOUGH WHEN YOU HAVE FIREFIGHTERS?

NO.

THE FIRES OVERCOME IN THE MOMENT IN THE DAYS WHEN THEY'RE OCCURRING THE BEST OF HUMAN PLANNING.

SO WE NEED TO DO MORE.

BUT THESE CATASTROPHIC EVENTS DON'T HAPPEN EVERY DAY, AND THEY DON'T HAPPEN IN THE SAME PLACE.

SO YOU HAVE TO BALANCE THE INVESTMENT WITH THE RISK.

I THINK CALIFORNIA HAS DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB.

IT CAN DO BETTER, AND WE'RE GOING TO LEARN A LOT IN THIS PARTICULAR FIRE.

BUT GIVEN THE NATURE OF IT, I THINK JUST STARTING THE BLAME GAME IS NOT HELPFUL.

AND TO POLITICIZE A TRAGEDY OF THIS NATURE INDICATES THAT AMERICA IS MOVING IN TOTALLY A NEW POLITICAL DIRECTION WHERE DISSENSION IS GOING TO BE THE ORDER OF THE DAY, AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO HELP ANYBODY FIGHT FIRES OR GOVERNOR.

>> SO I JUST WANT TO PUT OUT A COUPLE OF THINGS, THE PREPARATION.

SOME OF THE REPORTING HAS BEEN IS THERE ENOUGH WATER IN THE HYDRANTS?

AS YOU SAID, MULTIPLE FIRES, HIGH WINDS, IT'S ALMOST -- WELL, IT IS THE PERFECT STORM.

TO YOUR MIND, IS IT BECAUSE THERE ARE THIS MANY FIRES AND BECAUSE OF THE WINDS ADDED TO THE CLIMATE?

OR ARE THERE OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE THINGS THAT WEREN'T IN PLACE?

>> WELL, WHAT I WOULD SAY IS IN TRYING TO COME UP WITH A CAREFUL THOUGHTFUL ANSWER, IT'S NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN DO IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT OUGHT TO BE LOOKED AT VERY CAREFULLY WITH THE FEDERAL AND THE STATE AUTHORITIES DOING THEIR BEST AND SHARING THE INQUIRY.

NOT JUST POPPING OFF AND SAYING OKAY, IT'S ALL NEWSOM'S FAULT, IT'S ALL THIS, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE WATER, IT WASN'T IN THE RESERVOIR.

I WOULD HESITATE TO OFFER A WELL-GROUNDED OPINION THAT WITH THE FIVE FIRES, THE WIND AT 100 MILES AN HOUR THAT SUCH AND SUCH HAPPENED.

WE'RE STILL DIGESTING IT.

AND IT'S NOT ANY KIND OF A SCIENCE OR NORMAL JUDGMENT THAT YOU JUST START POPPING OFF AFTER A FEW DAYS.

YEAH, WHY WASN'T THE WATER IN THE RESERVOIR?

I HEARD BECAUSE WINTER IS THE TIME TO DRAIN IT WHEN IT NEEDED TO BE FIXED.

IT'S FULL OF POLLUTANTS.

SO THERE ARE A LOT OF EXPLANATIONS.

I'M NOT GOING TO TRY TO SAY WHICH ARE GOOD AND WHICH ARE BAD.

IT'S A TRAGEDY.

PEOPLE ARE DYING.

PEOPLE DON'T HAVE HOMES.

AND NOW TO MAKE A POLITICAL FOOTBALL OUT OF THIS, IT'S NOT ONLY SHOCKING, BUT IT'S A PORTENT OF AMERICA IN THE YEARS AHEAD, SAILING INTO VERY TROUBLESOME WATERS.

>> AND LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN FOCUSING A LITTLE BIT ON CAPITOL HILL AS YOU PROBABLY HEARD, THE CONFIRMATION PROCESS HAS STARTED THERE.

AND THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, MIKE JOHNSON, SUGGESTED THIS MONDAY THAT PERHAPS NEEDED TO BE CONDITIONS FOR, YOU KNOW, AID TO CALIFORNIA.

AND WE KNOW FROM RESEARCH THAT YOUR STATE, CALIFORNIA, PAYS $83 BILLION MORE INTO THE FEDERAL POT THAN IT EVER GETS BACK IN FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

THERE IS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION OUT RIGHT NOW.

HOW DOES THIS AFFECT THE FIREFIGHTING AND PEOPLE'S MORALE?

>> WELL, THEY DON'T ALWAYS READ ALL THESE NEWSPAPER ACCOUNTS OR THE MEDIA ACCOUNTS COMING OUT OF WASHINGTON.

WE'RE GOING TO FIGHT THE FIRE.

THESE ARE HEROIC INDIVIDUALS, THE PEOPLE WHO FIGHT FIRES.

THEY'RE UP 48 HOURS SOMETIMES, TAKING THEIR OWN LIVES -- PUTTING THEIR OWN LIVES AT RISK.

SO I THINK WE NEED TO JUST STAND BACK A LITTLE BIT AND UNDERSTAND WHAT'S AT STAKE.

NOW IF YOU WANT TO SAY CONDITIONS ON FEDERAL AID, DOES THAT MEAN THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE ALONG THE MISSISSIPPI RIVER AND THEY'RE TRYING TO REBUILD, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE THEM ANY MONEY?

OR PEOPLE ON THE FLORIDA COAST IN MIAMI AND ELSEWHERE, YOU SEE THE SEA IS RISING.

YOUR HOUSES ARE BUILT IN THE WRONG PLACE, WE'RE NOT GIVING YOU ANY MONEY.

WELL, I THINK THAT'S A LEGITIMATE INQUIRY, BUT IT SHOULDN'T JUST BE A REPUBLICAN-DEMOCRAT, TRUMP VERSUS CALIFORNIA.

THAT'S NOT HEALTHY.

CALIFORNIA WILL FIGHT BACK.

WE'LL DEFEND OUR INTERESTS, BUT WE HAVE TO ALSO WORK TO PULL OUR COUNTRY TOGETHER.

WE HAVE SO MANY CHALLENGES FROM ABROAD, BUT RIGHT HERE AT HOME.

AND I'M AFRAID IF THE EARLY INDICATIONS FROM THE SPEAKER AND FROM THE PRESIDENT ARE POINTED AT THINGS TO COME, I'D SAY WORSE THAN THE FIRES, DEMOCRACY IS ON A REAL PRECIPICE.

>> AND SINCE YOU BRING THAT UP, I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE WHOLE DEI CONTROVERSY THAT THIS INCOMING ADMINISTRATION SEEMS TO HAVE AS A MANTRA, DEI.

WE JUST HEARD IT FROM HEGSETH.

HE TALKS ABOUT EQUALITY, NOT EQUITY.

HE TALKS ABOUT STANDARDS NOT BEING MET BY MINORITIES OR WOMEN IN THE PENTAGON.

AND THERE'S ALREADY BEEN ELON MUSK SAYING DEI ABOUT WHAT HE BELIEVES IS THE PROBLEM IN CALIFORNIA WITH THE FIRES.

WHAT ON EARTH DOES THAT MEAN?

AND HOW -- I MEAN, HOW IS THAT AFFECTING THE BODY POLITIC?

>> WELL, FIRST OF ALL, FOR MUSK'S COMMENT THE DEI HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE FIRE IS RIDICULOUS.

THAT'S ABSURD ON ITS FACE.

SECONDLY, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT THERE ARE GROSS DISPARITIES IN OUR SOCIETY.

I CAN TELL YOU, I'VE BEEN THE CHAIR OF A CHARTER SCHOOL THAT I FOUNDED 23 YEARS AGO, AND LOW INCOME KIDS, PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT SO GOOD AT ENGLISH, PEOPLE WHOSE PARENTS ARE IN THE LOWER INCOME, MAKING 20, 30, $40,000 A YEAR, THEY DO MUCH WORSE IN SCHOOL THAN MORE AFFLUENT FAMILIES AND KIDS.

AND THESE ARE OUR FUTURE.

SO, YES, THERE IS INEQUALITY.

BUT DEI PERFECT?

NO.

THEY CREATE LITTLE BUREAUCRACIES.

AND LIKE ANYTHING, YOU TAKE A POSITION, YOU TAKE A POLICY AND YOU PUSH IT AND YOU PUSH IT TOO FAR.

SO DEI CAN WELL SERVE -- CAN GET SOME GOOD REFORM, NOT A PROBLEM.

BUT DON'T THROW OUT THE BABY WITH THE BATH WATER.

LET'S BE PRACTICAL, HAVE GOOD STANDARDS, EXAMINE THE STANDARDS.

PROMOTE EQUALITY AS BEST WE CAN, BUT DON'T MAKE IT JUST A POLITICAL FOOTBALL THERE HAS BEEN SOME REALLY STUPID STUFF CONNECTED WITH DEI, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE TEEING OFF ON IT.

SO THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO HAVE TO WISE UP AND, YOU KNOW, ACCEPT THE CHANGES THAT ARE WARRANTED.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT CLIMATE CHANGE, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, YOU BROUGHT IT UP AT THE BEGINNING, AND MOST OF US WHO LIVE ABROAD, YOU KNOW, ARE WELL VERSED IN IT.

AND THE QUESTION IS WILL THIS FOCUS AMERICANS' MINDS ON THE PROBLEMS WITH CLIMATE CHANGE?

BECAUSE MANY HAVE POINTED TO THE SCORCHING WEATHERS, THE BURNT BRUSH, THE DROUGHTS, ALL THE REST OF IT.

AND REMEMBER BACK IN 2018 WHEN THERE WAS THE -- I BELIEVE IT WAS THE PARADISE FIRE IN CALIFORNIA, TRUMP WENT THERE, WAS WITH GOVERNOR NEWSOM.

AND THIS IS WHAT HE SAID ABOUT HOW OTHER COUNTRIES DO IT.

TAKE A LISTEN.

>> YOU LOOK AT OTHER COUNTRIES WHERE THEY DO IT DIFFERENTLY, AND IT'S A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY.

I WAS WITH THE PRESIDENT OF FINLAND, AND HE SAID WE HAVE A MUCH DIFFERENT -- WE'RE FAR STATION.

HE CALLED IT A FAR STATION.

THEY SPEND A LOT OF TIME ON BREAKING AND CLEANING AND DOING THINGS, AND THEY DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM.

AND WHEN IT IS, IT'S A VERY SMALL PROBLEM.

I KNOW EVERYBODY IS LOOKING AT THAT, TO THAT END.

>> GOVERNOR, YOU OF COURSE WERE GOVERNOR THEN.

NEWSOM WAS YOUR LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR.

HE WAS STANDING NEXT TO YOU SAYING THAT.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT?

>> WELL, TALK ABOUT RAKING THE FOREST.

THAT'S ABSURD.

ALSO, I WANT TO POINT OUT THAT IN THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OWNS HALF OF THE WILD LANDS IN CALIFORNIA, HALF THE FOREST.

THEY'RE NATIONAL FORESTS, ALL RIGHT.

AND THEY MANAGE REALLY SUB-PAR, BELOW WHAT CALIFORNIA EXPECTS.

AND THE REASON FOR THAT IS 30% OF THEIR POSITIONS AREN'T EVEN FILLED.

THEY HAVEN'T PUT IN THE MONEY TO MANAGE THEIR OWN FOREST.

SO REALLY, YOU OUGHT TO LOOK IN THE MIRROR AND SEE THE DERELICTION THERE.

BUT BEYOND THAT, MANAGING THESE FORESTS IS CHALLENGING.

THEY'RE OVERGROWN.

WE NEED TO SPEND BILLIONS MORE AND FOREVER.

CLIMATE IS CHANGING.

THE CHALLENGE IS NOT GOING AWAY.

AND WE NEED TO DO MORE.

SO YOU WANT TO SAY NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE, YOU'RE RIGHT.

AND WE HAVE TO GO FURTHER.

BUT WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT FIGHTING OVER RAKING, OVER POINTING THE FINGER HERE AND THERE.

TRUMP IS VERY CONVINCING TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.

AND WHATEVER HE SAYS, HALF THE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BELIEVE HIM.

BUT IN THIS CASE, HE IS DEAD WRONG.

>> AND GOVERNOR, FINALLY, WITH ALL THIS TALK ABOUT MASS DEPORTATIONS, SOME HAVE RAISED THE QUESTION ABOUT WHO IS GOING TO BE THE WORKFORCE, WHO IS GOING CLEAN UP LIKE THE TOXIC ASH AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE LEFT IN THIS WAR ZONE IN PARTS OF CALIFORNIA NOW IF THERE ARE MASS DEPORTATIONS.

AND ADDED TO THAT, DO YOU THINK THAT THESE NOW REGULAR CRISES WILL ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LEAVE CALIFORNIA FOR GOOD AND SET UP ELSEWHERE?

>> WELL, ELSEWHERE THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE FIRES IN ARIZONA.

THEY'VE GOT TORNADOES AND FLOODS IN NORTH CAROLINA.

THE SEA IS ENCROACHING IN FLORIDA.

NEW YORK CITY'S SUBWAY FLOODED.

WHEREVER YOU GO, YOU'RE NOT GOING TO ESCAPE NATURE, AND NATURE IS BEING DISRUPTED PROFOUNDLY TO THE TUNE OF 50 BILLION HEAT-TRAPPING GASES PUT IN THE ATMOSPHERE EVERY YEAR.

UNTIL WE GET A HANDLE ON THAT, WE'RE GOING HAVE TO SPEND TRILLIONS ON RESILIENCE, ON COMPENSATING, BUILDING FLOOD BARRIERS, TAKING AWAY VEGETATION, HARDENING HOUSES.

THIS IS A HUGE NATIONAL CRISIS.

AND I WILL SAY THIS, THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO START THE OIL DRILLING, IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY ELECTRIC CARS AND APPROPRIATE EFFORTS AND REGULATIONS TO CURB EMISSIONS, AND HE IS GOING TO REDUCE TO ABSURDITY THE PROPOSITION THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS A FRAUD.

HE IS GOING TO DISPROVE THAT IN A VERY DRAMATIC WAY, AND INTERNATIONAL THE MOVEMENT TO REIN IN THE CLIMATE, THE CLIMATE CHANGE IS GOING TO GROW UNDER TRUMP.

MAYBE NOT THE FIRST FEW MONTHS, BUT IN THE FIRST IN HIS TERM, YOU'RE GOING SEE A RADICAL AWAKENING OF PEOPLE IN WAYS THEY'VE BEEN ASLEEP TODAY ABOUT THE TRUE DANGERS OF CLIMATE, WHICH AFFECT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD.

AND UNFORTUNATELY, IT HASN'T BEEN TREATED THAT WAY, THAT CHINA AND THE U.S. HAVE TO WORK VERY CLOSELY TOGETHER.

IT'S NOT JUST CHINA, THE GREAT POWER ADVERSARY.

CHINA HAS TO BE A PARTNER OR WE'LL NEVER MAKE IT.

THE SAME IS TRUE OF RUSSIA AND OTHER MUTUAL THREATS THAT WE ALL FACE AS PEOPLE.

SO IT'S NOT JUST CALIFORNIA AND TRUMP IN WASHINGTON HAVING TO WORK TOGETHER, IT'S CALIFORNIA AND AMERICA AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.

IF WE DON'T WAKE UP, HUMANITY WILL SUFFER AND SUFFER GRIEVOUSLY.

>> AND IT IS RIGHT NOW.

GOVERNOR BROWN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.

NOW, AS DONALD TRUMP PREPARES TO TAKE OFFICE, COVID TOOK HIS FIRST ADMINISTRATION BY SURPRISE.

AND NOW DISEASE EXPERTS ARE WEARILY EYEING SEVERAL DIFFERENT VIRUSES AROUND THE WORLD, INCLUDING HMPV IN CHINA AND BIRD FLU IN THE UNITED STATES.

FOR THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION, COVID WAS ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING PERIOD IN HISTORY.

AND NOW IT FACES NEW DISASTERS, MAN MADE HEALTH CRISES WITH THE WARS IN GAZA AND SUDAN CAUSING TERRIBLE HEALTH OUTCOMES.

THE W.H.O.

'S DIRECTOR GENERAL, DR. TED DEGREES GHEBREYESUS BECAME A HOUSEHOLD NAME DURING COVID.

HE JOINS ME TO DISCUSS THESE CHALLENGES.

DR. GHEBREYESUS, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT VACCINATIONS AND A NEW REPORT THAT SUGGESTS VACCINATIONS ARE GOING DOWN IN THE UNITED STATES.

THEY DROPPED DURING THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC, AND THEY'VE CONTINUED TO DROP.

AND I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH VACCINATION.

YOU EXPERIENCED THE DEATH OF YOUR YOUNGER BROTHER WHO IS AROUND 4 YEARS OLD AT THE TIME.

WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER HAD ACTUALLY KILLED HIM?

>> YEAH, THANK YOU.

BY THE WAY, THE DECLINE IN VACCINATION, IT'S GLOBAL.

AND ESPECIALLY WITH COVID, A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION.

THE VACCINATION RATE IS DECLINING, AND THAT'S VERY CONCERNING.

AND AS YOU KNOW, THE EXPANDED PROGRAM FOR VACCINATION STARTED IN 1974, AND ITS 50 YEARS ANNIVERSARY, WE'RE CELEBRATING THAT LAST MONTH IN THE END OF 2024.

AND 154 MILLION LIVES WERE SAVED DUE TO THE EXPANDED PROGRAM OF IMMUNIZATION THAT STARTED IN 1974.

SO YOU KNOW HOW VACCINES ACTUALLY WORK.

AND NOT ONLY THAT, THE LATEST DATA FROM 1990 TO 2022, IN 1990, THE DEATH OF CHILDREN WAS 11.9 MILLION A YEAR.

NOW IN 2022, IT'S 4.5 MILLION.

AND IT WAS REDUCED BY HALF.

AND IF VACCINES WERE AVAILABLE WHEN I WAS YOUNG, MY BROTHER COULD HAVE SURVIVED.

YOU KNOW, I WAS BORN IN 1965, AND MY YOUNGER BROTHER WAS 3 YEARS YOUNGER THAN ME.

AND FROM WHAT MY MOTHER TELLS ME, THE SYMPTOMS LOOK LIKE MEASLES.

AND AS YOU KNOW, MEASLES IS ONE OF THE DISEASES THAT CAN BE PREVENTED THROUGH VACCINES.

OF COURSE, MY BROTHER AND MYSELF WERE RAISED IN THE SAME HOUSE, IN THE SAME HOME IS THE MATTER OF SHEER LUCK I SURVIVED AND HE DIED BECAUSE OF WHAT MY MOTHER TELLS ME.

MY MOTHER TELLS ME THAT IT'S BECAUSE OF MEASLES.

SO IF THERE WAS VACCINATION THEN, MY BROTHER COULD HAVE SURVIVED AND MYSELF ALSO I WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO THAT DANGER.

SO VACCINATIONS WORK, AND I HOPE GOVERNMENTS WILL UNDERSTAND AND TACKLE THE DECLINING RATE OF IMMUNIZATION GLOBALLY.

>> AND AS YOU SAY, IT IS A GLOBAL PHENOMENON.

AND I JUST WANT TO KNOW, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO TALK POLITICS, BUT THE MOST POWERFUL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WITH THE MOST ABILITY TO NOT JUST VACCINATE, BUT ALSO TO MAKE VACCINATIONS FOR THE REST OF THE WORLD IS POTENTIALLY GOING TO BE HEADED BY A VACCINE SKEPTIC.

THERE ARE ALREADY OUTBREAKS OF MEASLES IN THE UNITED STATES.

ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT THE UNITED STATES MIGHT NOT BE PROVIDING THE BEST EXAMPLE, THE BEST MODELING IN THE YEARS TO COME?

>> I THINK LET'S GIVE THEM TIME.

DURING THEIR TRANSITION, AND WHAT I HEARD IN THE LAST ESPECIALLY FEW WEEKS IS A DIFFERENT STORY, AND I HOPE, YOU KNOW, WE CAN COOPERATE.

AND THAT'S WHAT I BELIEVE WOULD BE, BECAUSE FROM W.H.O., WE'RE READY TO COOPERATE.

>> WHAT DO YOU SEE FROM W.H.O.

'S SIDE AS THE MAJOR HEALTH CHALLENGE FOR THIS YEAR, FOR 2025?

>> I THINK FOR 2025, YOU KNOW, WE'RE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONFLICTS IN MANY COUNTRIES.

MORE THAN 50 EMERGENCIES, BY THE WAY.

AND AS WE ALWAYS SAY, PEACE IS THE BEST MEDICINE.

AND WHEN THERE ARE CONFLICTS, THE -- YOU KNOW, HELD IS THE MOST VULNERABLE.

THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS.

BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, AS YOU KNOW, 70% OF THEM ARE HAPPENING GLOBALLY BECAUSE OF NONCOMMUNICABLE DISEASES.

AND I THINK FOCUSING ON THAT WILL BE VERY -- GOING TO BE VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

AND FOR 2025, WE'RE PUTTING AS OUR PRIORITY.

BECAUSE IN SOME COUNTRIES, MATERNAL MORTALITIES ARE UNACCEPTABLY VERY, VERY HIGH.

AND MATERNAL MORTALITIES HAPPENING DUE TO PREVENTIBLE CAUSES ACTUALLY, AND WE WILL FOCUS ON THAT.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE SELECTED FOR 2025.

BY THE WAY, CHRISTIANE, I WOULD LIKE TO THANK YOU FOR YOUR COURAGE, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU WERE CONFRONTED WITH CANCER, YOU CAME OUT TO SPEAK ABOUT YOUR OWN STORY.

AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT REALLY TOUCHED ME BECAUSE OF COURSE YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE BEST TECHNOLOGY, BUT MANY ARE NOT.

SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE MOBILIZING ON MATERNAL HEALTH, BECAUSE IN MANY COUNTRIES, ESPECIALLY DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, WHERE ACCESS IS VERY, VERY LOW TO CURRENT OR NEW TECHNOLOGIES, MANY MOTHERS ARE NEEDLESSLY DYING.

WE'RE FOCUSING 2025 ON NOT TERRIBLE HEALTH.

>> MATERNAL HEALTH REALLY IMPORTANT.

BUT ALSO WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT PEACE BEING THE BEST MEDICINE.

SO LET'S TALK NOW ABOUT A RAGING CONFLICT THAT'S UNDER WAY IN GAZA, WHERE WINTER IS COMING.

THERE IS ALL SORTS OF RESPIRATORY AND SKIN DISEASES.

THERE IS MALNUTRITION AND STARVATION.

THERE IS FREEZING TO DEATH.

AND THE U.N. HAS SAID THAT FUEL SUPPLIES THREATEN TO SHUT DOWN MORE MEDICAL FACILITIES, THE LACK OF FUEL.

AND AS YOU KNOW, THERE HAS BEEN DIFFICULTY IN IMMUNIZATION PROGRAMS THERE.

WHAT DO YOU SEE ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA AND IF THERE IS A CEASEFIRE, AND IF IT LASTS JUST SIX WEEKS IN THE FIRST INSTANCE, CAN ANYTHING BE DONE TO JUMP-START THE HEALTH PROGRAM IN SIX WEEKS THERE?

>> FIRST OF ALL, I HEAR ABOUT THE CEASEFIRE.

AND I'M REALLY ENCOURAGED ABOUT IT AND I HOPE IT WILL HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS, OR ANY TIME SOON.

BECAUSE, AS I SAID EARLIER, PEACE IS THE BEST MEDICINE.

AND WE HAVE BEEN ASKING FOR CEASEFIRE FOR A LONG, LONG TIME.

AS YOU KNOW, SO FAR IN GAZA, 46,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED.

AND 10,000 MISSING.

AND EVEN THE 10,000 MISSING COULD BE ACTUALLY KILLED BECAUSE IT'S ONLY BECAUSE WE ARE -- NOBODY CAN ACCOUNT FOR.

AND MORE THAN 110,000 INJURIES.

I THINK OUT OF THE 46,000, BY THE WAY, MORE THAN 60% OF THE DEATHS ARE WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

THAT ALONE IS ENOUGH TO STOP THE WAR, YOU KNOW.

THAT WAS ENOUGH FOR A CEASEFIRE.

BUT STILL THE WAR IS CONTINUING.

SO I HOPE, YOU KNOW, THERE WILL BE PEACE.

THERE WILL BE A CEASEFIRE.

I REPORTED LAST WEEK THAT KIDS ARE NOW DYING BECAUSE OF HYPOTHERMIA, COLD WEATHER.

AND MORE THAN 200,000 CLOSINGS FOR WINTER WERE PROCURED.

BUT WE HAVEN'T EVEN DISTRIBUTED MORE THAN 20,000 OF THEM.

AND THIS IS BECAUSE OF LACK OF ACCESS TO GAZA.

AS YOU KNOW, NORTHERN GAZA IS COMPLETELY BESIEGED.

IT'S 100 DAYS SINCE IT WAS UNDER SIEGE.

AND THIS IS REALLY HORRIFIC.

AND PEOPLE WE COULD HAVE SAVED ARE DYING.

AND I ASK ISRAEL TO GIVE US ACCESS, AND ALSO TO ALLOW THE DISTRIBUTION OF THIS, YOU KNOW, WINTER CLOSINGS SO WE CAN SAVE THE KIDS.

AND 100 DAYS OF SIEGE NORTHERN GAZA IS NOT -- IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

AND I SAY IT EARLIER, PEACE IS THE BEST MEDICINE.

CEASEFIRE IS THE WAY OUT.

AND THIS IS NOT ONLY FOR THE POOR PALESTINIANS, BUT I BELIEVE THIS IS IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF ISRAEL, ISRAEL AS WELL.

AND I HOPE THIS CEASEFIRE WILL MATERIALIZE.

MAYBE ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO ADD IS MORE THAN 15,000 PEOPLE NEED EVACUATION.

AND -- VACCINATION.

AND THEN THOUSAND WHO SHOULD BE VACCINATED ARE STUCK THERE.

AND WE MAY LOSE A GOOD NUMBER OF THEM.

SO WE ASK FOR ISRAEL TO HELP US WITH EVACUATIONS, TO HELP US GIVE ACCESS AND HELP US DISTRIBUTE THE WINTER CLOTHINGS, AND ALSO ALSO AGREE TO THE CEASEFIRE, WHICH I HEAR IS PROGRESSING, PROGRESSING WELL.

IT'S IN ITS BEST INTERESTS.

>> DR. TEDROS, MANY HUMANITARIANS HAVE HAD ISSUES WITH ISRAEL AND THE IDF TRYING TO GET INTO GAZA, AND YOU HAVE WITNESSED LIVE FIRE ESSENTIALLY WHEN ISRAEL RESPONDED TO ATTACKS FROM THE HOUTHIS IN YEMEN, YOU WERE THERE, AND YOU NARROWLY ESCAPED A STRIKE ON THE AIRPORT THERE.

TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, THE MISSION WAS A U.N. MISSION.

I LED A U.N. MISSION.

IT WAS NOT A W.H.O.

MISSION.

AND THIS WAS TO NEGOTIATE WITH THE HOUTHIS TO RELEASE THE U.N. DETAINEES THAT THEY'RE STILL KEEPING THERE.

AND THE MEETING ACTUALLY WENT WELL, THE DISCUSSION, AND WE HAVE AGREED ON FOUR POINTS.

AND I HOPE THAT THERE WILL BE PROGRESS.

BUT THE DAY WE WERE LEAVING SANAA AT THE AIRPORT, ISRAEL BOMBARDED THE AIRPORT.

AND, OF COURSE, AS YOU HAVE SEEN IN THE VIDEO, IT WAS CHAOTIC, AND WE WERE ALL IN DISARRAY, AND WE RAN AWAY FOR OUR LIVES.

THE EXPLOSION WAS HEAVY.

IT WAS CLOSE TO US, AND STILL I HAVE TINNITUS ON BOTH EARS.

NOW I THINK CONCENTRATING ON MY LEFT EAR.

IT WAS DANGEROUS, AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID.

AND WE WERE NOT ONLY MISSED.

AND I'M GRATEFUL TO GO THAT I'M ALIVE AND MY COLLEAGUES ARE ALIVE.

BUT, OF COURSE, THE RESPONSE FROM ISRAEL AFTER WORD, THEY DIDN'T KNOW TEDROS WAS AROUND.

BUT IT'S NOT ABOUT TEDROS, TO BE HONEST, BECAUSE THERE WERE CIVILIAN AIR FLIGHTS DEPARTING AND ALSO LANDING.

>> IT APPEARS THAT OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, HEALTH CARE HAS BEEN POLITICIZED.

I WANT TO ASK YOU, BECAUSE IT WAS AT A ZENITH DURING COVID.

DO YOU BELIEVE THE WORLD IS PREPARED FOR ANOTHER PANDEMIC?

AND DO YOU SEE ANOTHER ONE ON THE HORIZON?

>> YEAH, NO.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY ON THE LAST PART, YOU KNOW, I MYSELF HAD FACED WAR WHEN I WAS A CHILD.

AND I KNOW THE SMELL OF WAR, THE SOUND OF WAR, AND, YOU KNOW, AND EVERYTHING ABOUT WAR.

AND THAT'S WHY I REALLY HATE WAR.

AND THAT'S WHY ALSO I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR A CEASEFIRE AND SO ON.

THE PROBLEM IS I THINK MANY OF THE ACTORS, I DON'T THINK THEY KNOW WHAT WAR MEANS.

I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE BEEN AFFECTED THEMSELVES.

I DON'T THINK THEIR FAMILIES HAVE BEEN AFFECTED.

AND THAT'S WHY INSTEAD OF LOOKING FOR A PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT, FOR A POLITICAL SOLUTION, THEY SEE IT AS A GAME MAYBE, AN APP GAME TO GO TO WAR.

I THINK THE MOST COURAGEOUS CHOOSE PEACE, AND I HOPE OUR WORLD WILL COME BACK TO ITS SENSES AND CHOOSE PEACE.

AND THEN ON THE PANDEMIC, WHETHER WE'RE READY OR NOT, IT'S YES AND NO.

I SAY YES BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY STARTED REFORMING OUR SYSTEMS, BECAUSE THERE IS A PROBLEM -- THERE WAS A PROBLEM IN SURVEILLANCE, AND WE HAVE THE PANDEMIC INTELLIGENCE NOW IN BERLIN THAT WE ESTABLISHED THAT CAN HELP.

A PANDEMIC FUND WAS ESTABLISHED FOR SHARING PATHOGENS IS ALREADY INSTALLED, AND A PEER REVIEW MECHANISM IS THERE, AND WE'RE INVESTING IN LOCAL PRODUCTION.

THE IHR, THE INTERNATIONAL HEALTH REGULATION WAS AMENDED, AND NO, WE'RE NOT STILL PREPARED.

MAYBE THE OTHER SIDE IS NOT BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC AGREEMENT HAS NOT BEEN CONCLUDED.

IT'S ALMOST CLOSED, BUT IT HASN'T BEEN CONCLUDED.

AND IT'S ONLY WITH THE PANDEMIC AGREEMENT OR TREATY THAT WE CAN PREPARE THE WORLD IN A BETTER WAY.

>> OKAY.

>> WE HOPE THE WORLD WILL COME TOGETHER TO MAKE THE DEAL AND THEN PREPARE THE WORLD IN A BETTER WAY.

>> ON THAT NOTE, DR. TEDROS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

VERY NICE TO SPEAK TO YOU.

>> VERY FRANK AND DIRECT.

>>> LET'S RETURN NOW TO THE DEVASTATING WILDFIRES IN LOS ANGELES AS CALIFORNIANS LOSE THEIR HOMES, THEIR LIVELIHOODS, FINANCES WILL BE A CRUCIAL ISSUE FOR MANY PEOPLE TRYING TO REBUILD AND CARRY ON.

BLOOMBERG BUSINESS REPORTER LESLIE KAUFMAN SAYS THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL TEST FOR THE STATE'S INSURANCE SYSTEM, AND SHE TELLS HARI SREENIVASAN WHAT THAT MEANS FOR AMERICANS AS CLIMATE CHANGE PROMISES TO CAUSE MORE DAMAGE IN THE FUTURE.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

LESLIE KAUFMAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE BEEN TRACKING THE COSTS ASSOCIATED WITH NATURAL DISASTERS FOR SO LONG NOW, BUT, I MEAN, REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE FINAL NUMBER IS, WE ARE EXPECTING THE COSTS FROM THE WILDFIRES IN LOS ANGELES TO BE THE MOST EXPENSIVE IN U.S. HISTORY.

WHO'S GOING TO PAY FOR THIS?

>> WELL, THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION.

IT'S GOING TO BE SOME COMBINATION OF PRIVATE INSURERS, BUT A LOT OF PUBLIC MONEY, AND A LOT OF IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PAID FOR AT ALL.

SO IT'S GOING TO BE A MESS AS WE SORT THROUGH ALL THIS GOING FORWARD.

>> SOME PART OF THIS IS BECAUSE THE HOMES THAT ARE IN, SAY, THE PACIFIC PALISADES NEIGHBORHOOD ARE BEAUTIFUL HOMES, HUGE MANSIONS, ET CETERA.

BUT THERE ARE A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THAT ZONE OR THAT ZIP CODE WHO ARE ALSO AFFECTED BY A NUMBER OF THE WILDFIRES IN LOS ANGELES WHO HAVE, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU AND I WOULD CALL NORMAL MIDDLE CLASS HOMES.

SO THIS IS GOING TO BE FELT BY NOT JUST THE CELEBRITIES LIVING IN THAT ONE AREA.

>> OH, IT'S GOING TO BE FELT VERY BROADLY.

AND ALSO NOT LEAST OF WHICH, THERE ARE 100,000 PEOPLE OR MORE PEOPLE ON THE MOVE.

THEY'VE ALL GOT TO GET HOMES.

CALIFORNIA'S HOME MARKET WAS ALREADY STRETCHED.

I MEAN, THERE IS A LOT OF DISPLACEMENT GOING ON THERE.

IT COULD BE FOR A LONG TIME.

GOVERNOR GAVIN NEWSOM HAS SAID HE'D LIKE TO SUSPEND AN ENVIRONMENTAL REVIEW AND A BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS THAT GO INTO CONSTRUCTION SO PEOPLE CAN BUILD BACK QUICKLY, BUT WE'RE STILL TALKING YEARS AWAY.

>> IN CALIFORNIA, OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, THERE HAVE BEEN INSURANCE COMPANIES WHO HAVE JUST BEEN SAYING THIS IS NOT A RISK WE, THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, ARE WILLING TO TAKE ANYMORE, AND WE'RE GOING LEAVE.

SO WHAT HAS THAT DONE TO THE MARKET IN CALIFORNIA?

>> SO WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO CALIFORNIA.

WE HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO PROPOSITION 103 WHEN CALIFORNIANS SAID WE'RE NOT GOING TO LET INSURANCE COMPANIES RAISE OUR RATES TOO MUCH.

AND OVER TIME, WHAT HAPPENED WAS WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, THE RISKS BEGAN TO CHANGE.

THEY BECAME MORE EXTREME.

WE CAN SEE THAT.

CLIMATE CHANGE HAS MEANT DROUGHT MORE COMMON, FIRE SEASON HAPPENS LONGER.

SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THE PRIVATE INSURERS BEGAN SAYING I DON'T WANT TO TAKE THIS RISK ANYMORE.

AND THE RESULT HAS BEEN AN ENORMOUS GROWTH OF RISK, CONCENTRATED RISK PARTICULARLY IN THE RISKIEST AREAS, GO TO THE STATE-BACKED INSURANCE PLAN OF LAST RESORTS.

THAT'S THE CALIFORNIA FAIR PLAN.

AND THIS IS WHERE YOU GO WHEN YOU CAN'T GET INSURANCE ANYWHERE ELSE.

AND NO ONE ACTUALLY WANTS TO GO TO FAIR BECAUSE THE PLANS AREN'T AS GOOD AS PRIVATE INSURANCE PLANS.

BUT SOMETIMES THAT'S WHERE YOU END UP.

AND THE AMOUNT OF RISK THAT HAS GONE ON THE FAIR BALANCE SHEET, FAIR WAS MEANT TO BE A SMALL PROGRAM.

IT IS NOW -- IT'S NOW BY ITS OWN ESTIMATES THE LAST PUBLIC ESTIMATES AS OF LAST SEPTEMBER, IT HAS NEARLY HALF A TRILLION DOLLARS OF LIABILITY ON THE BOOKS.

SO IT'S A BIG DEAL.

>> SO WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU ARE LIVING IN ONE OF THESE AREAS, YOU COULDN'T GET INSURANCE FROM ANYBODY ELSE, YOU WENT TO FAIR.

IT SEEMS LIKE THIS IS ALMOST A RUN ON THE BANK.

I MEAN, WHEN HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF HOMEOWNERS ARE GOING TO FILE CLAIMS, THIS IS A STRESS TEST TO PUT IT MILDLY.

BUT CAN FAIR WITHSTAND THAT?

>> WELL, THE PRESIDENT OF FAIR, VICTORIA ROCHE TESTIFIED, AND SHE DID THIS LAST SPRING, THAT WE ARE ONE MAJOR EVENT AWAY FROM ASSESSMENT.

AND WHAT THAT MEANS IS CALIFORNIA FAIR PLAN DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY ON HAND TO COVER ALL OF THIS.

IF THEY WERE PRIVATE INSURED, THEY WOULD GO BANKRUPT.

BUT THEY'RE A PUBLIC INSURER, OR QUASI PUBLIC.

AND THAT MEANS THEY HAVE ASSESSMENT POWER.

WE'VE USED TAXES IN A DIFFERENT TERM.

BUT ESSENTIALLY, THEY CAN GO TO THE INSURANCE COMPANIES THAT ARE THEIR MEMBERS AND THEY CAN GO TO POLICY HOLDERS AND SAY WE NEED MONEY.

AND THE WAY WE'RE GOING GET MONEY IS WE'RE GOING TO ASSESS EVERYONE THAT MONEY.

THE LAST TIME THEY DID IT IS AFTER THE EARTHQUAKES IN THE 1990s.

IT WAS LOT LESS MONEY BACK THEN.

THIS TIME WE COULD BE TALKING BILLIONS, AND THAT WILL HAVE FAR-REACHING REPERCUSSIONS.

>> AND THAT MEANS THAT EVERY TAXPAYER IN CALIFORNIA WILL BE PAYING PART OF THIS ASSESSMENT, RIGHT?

NOT JUST THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THESE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WERE AFFECTED OR IN THE HIGH-RISK AREAS.

>> WELL, INDIRECTLY.

EVERY POLICY HOLDER COULD, ACCORDING TO THE WAY THIS WORKS IS, TO THE FIRST TWO BILLION IN ADDITION THAT THEY HAVE TO ASSESS, HALF NEEDS TO GO TO THE INSURANCE COMPANY.

BUT THEY'RE ALLOWED TO PASS HALF OF THAT OFF TO EVERY POLICY HOLDER, PROPERTY POLICY HOLDER IN THE STATE.

SO, YES, I THINK THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE, EVEN VERY FAR FROM PALISADES WHO WILL FEEL THAT PAIN.

>> WHERE WILL THE BALANCE OF THAT MONEY COME FROM?

LET'S SAY THIS ASSESSMENT IS, I DON'T KNOW, I GUESS APPROVED.

WHAT'S THE PROCESS FOR THIS LIKE?

THE HEAD OF FAIR HAS TO GO ASK THE LEGISLATURE OF CALIFORNIA, THE INSURANCE COMMISSIONER, THE GOVERNOR?

>> COMMISSIONER.

THEY ASK THE INSURANCE COMMISSIONER, AND HE HAS TO APPROVE.

HE HAS TO APPROVE IT.

NOW THE PROBLEM IS THAT LAURA, HE IS THE INSURANCE COMMISSIONER ELECTED OFFICIAL.

YOU CAN IMAGINE HOW YOU DON'T WANT TO DO THAT.

BUT THAT MONEY HAS TO COME FROM SOMEWHERE.

NOW HALF IS SUPPOSED TO COME FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANIES ALREADY DOING BUSINESS IN THE STATE.

AND THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO PAY OUT IN PROPORTION TO THEIR MARKET OVER THE LAST TWO YEARS.

SO IT'S NOT JUST LIKE IF YOU LEFT THE STATE A YEAR AGO, YOU'RE SAFE.

YOU WOULD STILL HAVE TO PAY SOMETHING.

BUT THESE GUYS HAVE ALREADY SAID -- I MEAN STATEFARM, THE BIGGEST INSURER IN CALIFORNIA HAVE ALREADY SAID THEY'RE UNDERCAPITALIZED.

DO I THINK THEY'LL GET THE MONEY?

YES.

DO I THINK THIS WILL CREATE AN ADDITIONAL INCENTIVE TO CONSIDER WHETHER YOU WANT THE STAY IN CALIFORNIA?

YEAH.

I THINK IT WILL HAVE A LOT OF INSURANCE COMPANIES THINKING TO THEMSELVES THEY'VE MADE REFORMS BUT NOT GOOD ENOUGH.

>> WHAT ARE THE EFFECTS ON A MARKETPLACE ON A MARKETPLACE WHEN MORE AND MORE INSURERS PULL OUT?

YOU SAY WELL, THERE ARE GOING TO BE MORE PEOPLE GOING TO THE INSURER OF LAST RESORT WHICH IS THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA.

BUT AS THERE ARE LESS OPTIONS OUT THERE, AND THAT ARE MORE PEOPLE ASKING FOR COVERAGE, DOES THAT MEAN THE PRICES FOR THESE POLICIES KEEP GOING UP?

DOES THAT MEAN THAT THERE IS JUST GOING TO BE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO, WELL, CHOOSE TO LIVE IN HOMES WITHOUT INSURANCE?

>> SO IT'S A VERY COMPLICATED FEEDBACK.

YOU CANNOT, OR YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO LIVE IN A HOUSE WITH A MORTGAGE WITHOUT INSURANCE.

>> RIGHT.

>> IF I'M YOUR BANK, I WANT YOU TO HAVE INSURANCE.

BUT I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT INSURANCE ON THE HOUSE'S VALUE.

WHAT I CARE ABOUT IS INSURANCE ON THE MORTGAGE.

SO THE AMOUNT YOU OWE ME.

SO LET'S SAY YOUR HOUSE IS WORTH A MILLION DOLLARS, BUT YOU ONLY OWE ME $300,000.

I'D BE OKAY IF YOU HAD INSURANCE ONLY FOR $300,000.

WHAT THIS DOES IS IT PUSHES THE RISK BACK ON TO THE MORTGAGE HOLDER.

AND WE'RE GOING SEE A LOT OF THAT.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE A LOT OF CASES WHERE THE MORTGAGE HOLDER HAS A LOT MORE RISK THAN THEY THOUGHT THEY DID AND IS GOING TO LOSE A LOT OF THIS VALUE.

ON A MORE GLOBAL SCALE, I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE AS A SOCIETY WANT TO PAY FOR IN TERMS OF RISK.

ADAM SCHIFF, WHO IS JUST ELECTED SENATOR OUT IN CALIFORNIA HAS SUGGESTED THAT WE NATIONALIZE THIS RISK LIKE WE NATIONALIZED FLOOD RISK, THAT WE TAKE SOMETHING LIKE THE NATIONAL FLOOD INSURANCE PROGRAM, WHICH IS FAMOUSLY ALWAYS IN DEBT, AND ADD OTHER RISKS TO IT.

ESSENTIALLY, TAKING THE RISKS THAT WE HAVE ALL OVER THE COUNTRY AND MAKING EVERYONE SHARE A PIECE OF THEM.

>> LET'S THINK ABOUT THAT.

SO YOU'VE GOT WILDFIRE RISKS IN PLACES LIKE CALIFORNIA OR COLORADO OR OTHER PLACES ALONG THE MOUNTAIN WEST, RIGHT.

YOU'VE GOT HURRICANE RISKS AND WIND AND FLOOD DAMAGE RISKS, ALL FROM FLORIDA ALL THE WAY UP THE EASTERN SEABOARD.

YOU'VE CERTAINLY GOT FLOOD RISKS IN THE RIVER VALLEYS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES.

THERE IS VERY FEW PLACES IN AMERICA THAT DON'T HAVE SOME SORT OF INCREASED RISK, ESPECIALLY WITH HOW CLIMATE CHANGE IS AFFECTING THE WEATHER.

MAYBE IT'S MORE TORNADOES IN KANSAS, RIGHT.

SO WHERE DO YOU STOP?

>> WELL, THAT'S GOING TO BE VERY INTERESTING QUESTION, BECAUSE WE ARE AS A NATION AND AS A WORLD GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE SOME CHOICES.

WE'RE GOING HAVE TO FIND PLACES THAT ARE LESS RISKY AND PRIORITIZE THOSE IN PLACES THAT ARE MORE RISKY AND DEPRIORITIZE THOSE.

RIGHT NOW AMERICANS HAVE BEEN MOVING TO THE VERY RISKIEST PLACES.

THEY'RE NICE.

THEY'RE ON THE COAST.

SO IF YOU LOOK DOWN IN FLORIDA, THAT'S A HUGE FLOOD AND HURRICANE RISK.

THAT MARKET HAS BEEN GROWING TREMENDOUSLY.

THE VALUES ALONG CALIFORNIA'S COASTLINE, GROWING TREMENDOUSLY.

SO WHILE I AGREE THAT THERE IS PROBABLY NO PLACE SAFE FROM CLIMATE CHANGE RISKS AND THE INCREASED RISK OF CATASTROPHIC WEATHER, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME MORE INTELLIGENCE SORTING THAN WE'RE DOING CURRENTLY.

>> MOST AMERICANS HAVE SEEN THEIR INSURANCE PREMIUMS GO UP.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE EITHER UPSET AT THE INSURANCE COMPANIES, OH, YOU'RE JUST USING CLIMATE CHANGE AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PRICE GOUGE.

IS THAT A FAIR CRITIQUE?

>> LOOK, I'LL BE THE LAST PERSON TO DEFEND AN INSURANCE COMPANY.

NO ONE LIKES TO FACE THEM OR FACE A CLAIM AGAINST THEM.

THEY HAVEN'T HAD A LOT OF VERY PROFITABLE YEARS.

IT -- THEY ARE TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT, BUT IT'S NOT JUST PRICE GOUGING.

WHAT INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO IS COMMUNICATE RISK TO YOU.

NOW THERE IS A PROFIT ON THAT, ABSOLUTELY.

THEY'RE NOT DOING IT FOR THEIR HEALTH.

BUT WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO WITH THEIR PRICES IS COMMUNICATE RISK.

AND PART OF WHAT'S DRIVING THEIR PRICES UP IS REINSURANCE.

WHEN YOU'RE AN INSURER, YOU BUY INSURANCE FOR YOURSELF IN CASE YOU GET A REALLY BIG SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN'T COVER WITH CASH.

THOSE REINSURERS LARGELY ARE NOT IN THE UNITED STATES.

AND AS A RESULT, ARE NOT REGULATED BY US, AND THEY'VE BEEN RAISING THEIR PRICES LIKE CRAZY.

THEY'RE TELLING US, AND WE HAVE TO HEAR THAT IN CERTAIN AREAS, THE RISK IS SO BAD THAT YOU HAVE TO PAY A DIFFERENT PRICE TO LIVE THERE.

AND IT'S SOMETHING I THINK MOST OF US ARE NOT READY TO HEAR YET.

>> SO IF WE HAD TO REDRAW A MAP OF THE UNITED STATES WITH THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF RISK FACTORED INTO THE PAYMENTS, WHERE IS A PLACE WHERE YOU CAN HAVE A HOME WITH A REASONABLE MORTGAGE AND A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF INSURANCE TO COVER FOR IF YOU DID HAVE A CATASTROPHIC LOSS THAT YOU'D GET THIS MONEY BACK?

IT SEEMS LIKE THERE IS LESS AND LESS PLACES WHERE SHOULD IT BE THEORETICALLY AFFORDABLE.

>> YEAH.

I THINK WE'RE GOING SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE SHIFTING UP TO THAT GREAT LAKES REGION AND PLACES LIKE THAT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT EASY TO PREDICT.

A LOT OF CLIMATE SCIENTISTS MOVED TO ASHEVILLE BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT ASHEVILLE, NORTH CAROLINA, BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE A CLIMATE HAVEN.

AND THE LAST HURRICANE SHOWED US THAT IT REALLY WAS ANYTHING BUT.

I MEAN CLIMATE CHANGE NOT ONLY MAKES THE WORLD WARMER, IT MAKES WEATHER FAR LESS PREDICTABLE.

WHICH IS A REAL PROBLEM FOR INSURANCE COMPANIES BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL ABOUT PREDICTING RISKS.

>> IS THERE ANYBODY THAT'S DOING THIS WELL, WHETHER IT'S A STATE OR IT'S ANOTHER COUNTRY?

IS THERE SOME MODEL THAT WE CAN LOOK AROUND AND SAY OKAY, THIS IS AN INTERESTING IDEA, THIS IS SOMETHING WHERE WE CAN MODEL THIS RISK APPROPRIATELY AND PEOPLE CAN STILL HAVE INSURANCE?

>> WELL, I WILL SAY THAT HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, THERE HAS BEEN HUGE AMOUNTS OF EFFORT AND MONEY PUT INTO MODELS.

THE QUESTION OF HOW WE PREDICT IT.

THE REASON I THINK SOME OF THAT'S NOT BEING MADE PUBLIC IS BECAUSE A LOT OF HOUSING VALUE IS IN PLACES WHERE PEOPLE HAVE HIGH RISK.

AND IF YOU MAKE THAT PUBLIC NOW, YOU TAKE AWAY THE VALUE OF THEIR HOME.

SO FULL TRANSPARENCY HAS CONSEQUENCES AS WELL.

IT HAS CONSEQUENCES, AND NOT NECESSARILY RICH PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALL THEIR VALUE IN THEIR HOMES AND DON'T WANT TO BE TOLD TOMORROW THAT IT'S WORTH NOTHING.

SO IN TERMS OF AN ANSWER, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE PAY PEOPLE TO MOVE OUT OF THE POOREST AREAS, WHETHER WE CAN PAY THEM SOMETHING.

THERE HAVE BEEN PROGRAMS LIKE THIS IN NEW JERSEY AFTER SANDY, THEY HAD A BLUE ACRES PROGRAM THAT OFFERED TO PAY PEOPLE TO MOVE OUT OF THE RISKIEST AREAS AND TO TURN IT INTO PARKLAND ESSENTIALLY DOWN BY THE SHORE.

THE PROBLEM WAS JUST ONE OR TWO PEOPLE HELD OUT AND WANTED TO KEEP THEIR HOUSES.

WHICH MEANT THAT SERVICES STILL HAD TO BE PROVIDED FOR THEM, AND THAT YOU COULDN'T TURN THE REST INTO PARK.

SO IT'S NOT AN EASY SOLUTION.

>> THEN THERE IS THE LENS OF POLITICS THAT THIS IS ALL GOING TO COME THROUGH.

WE'RE HAVING THESE HORRIBLE WILDFIRES.

HOPEFULLY THEY'RE OUT SOON.

BUT IN A MATTER OF WEEKS, THERE IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ADMINISTRATION WITH A DIFFERENT POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY THAT'S COMING INTO OFFICE.

THROW THAT VARIABLE INTO THE MIX ON HOW THAT MIGHT AFFECT WHETHER PEOPLE IN LOS ANGELES GET PAID BACK AND HOW MUCH AND HOW FAST.

>> THAT'S VERY INTERESTING.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WILL HAVE CONTROL OF FEMA.

THAT'S THE FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY.

HOW GENEROUS THEY CHOOSE TO BE THROUGH FEMA WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT.

FEMA IS A WAY A LOT OF INDIVIDUALS GET ASSISTANCE WHO DON'T HAVE INSURANCE.

AND IT'S ALSO THE WAY COMMUNITIES GET MONEY TO PAY BACK.

BIDEN DECLARED A FULL FEDERAL EMERGENCY.

WHETHER TRUMP WILL DO ANYTHING TO PULL BACK AND LIMIT MONEY TO A PLACE THAT HAS NOT BEEN POLITICALLY FRIENDLY TO HIM, I DO NOT KNOW.

BUT IN GENERAL, THESE REPUBLICANS AND REPUBLICANS UNDER TRUMP HAVE CALLED CLIMATE CHANGE FRAUD.

SO THEY'RE CERTAINLY NOT OPEN TO ADDRESSING THE UNDERLYING ISSUE.

I THINK WE CAN SAY SAFELY THAT THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ADDRESS THESE DISASTERS ONE BY ONE, WHICH WILL CERTAINLY KEEP COMING, NO MATTER WHAT PROMISES POLITICIANS MAKE.

AND UNTIL WE ARE EVENTUALLY FORCED AS A SOCIETY TO THINK ABOUT THIS AS A CLIMATE PROBLEM, THE ONLY WAY TO SOLVE IT IS TO KEEP THE WORLD FROM GETTING CATASTROPHICALLY WARM.

>> WOULD YOU ADVICE PEOPLE TO REBUILD IN PLACES LIKE PACIFIC PALISADES OR AREAS THAT ARE MORE PRONE TO WILDFIRES LIKE IN PARTS OF CALIFORNIA, EVEN THOUGH THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST, EASIEST PLACE TO LIVE, IT MIGHT HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING THAT YOU WANT.

IF YOUR ENTIRE LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS BEING IN THIS PROXIMITY TO WORK OR YOUR KID'S SCHOOL, THIS IS A TOUGH CHOICE THAT A LOT OF FAMILIES ARE GOING TO HAVE TO FACE.

>> IT IS.

AND WE'VE SEEN THIS OVER AND OVER IN PLACES LIKE FLORIDA AND ALSO CALIFORNIA WITH WILDFIRES WHERE PEOPLE SOMETIMES TAKE TWO WILDFIRES, TWO HURRICANES BEFORE THEY DECIDE I CAN'T DO THIS AGAIN.

I CANNOT GO THROUGH THIS DISRUPTION OF MY LIFE AGAIN.

IT'S VERY HARD TO MAKE A DECISION TO LEAVE A PLACE YOU LOVE.

I DON'T MEAN TO MINIMIZE IT.

BUT I THINK WE WILL SEE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LEAVING, AND NOT ONLY BECAUSE THEY CHOOSE, BUT BECAUSE, FRANKLY, THEIR FINANCES DON'T ALLOW ANY OTHER CHOICE.

>> LESLIE KAUFMAN, CLIMATE AND ENVIRONMENT REPORTER FROM BLOOMBERG, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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