January 20, 2025

>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOMETO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY. "

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> I DONALD J. TRUMPDO SOLEMNLY SWEAR -- >> DONALD TRUMPRETURNS TO POWER AFTERA STUNNING JANUARY 6th INSURRECTION.

I SPEAK TO A SPEECHWRITER DAVID FRUMABOUTTHE HISTORICAL MOMENT AND THE NEXTFOURYEARS.

> >> AND THEN MAGA MEETSMLK AS AMERICA REMEMBERS THIS INAUGURATIONDAY, WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM HIS VISIONOF PEACEFUL RESISTANCE.

I ASK HARVARD PROFESSORIMANI PERRY.

>> AND ALSO.

>> IT IS WHERE THE STRONG DO WHATTHEY WILL AND THE WEAK SUFFER.

>>THE FOUNDER OF THE EURASIAGROUP IAN BREMMER SAYS WHY HE BELIEVESTHAT THE WORLDIS HEADED BACK TO THE LAW OF THE JUNGLEIN 2025.

> >> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADEPOSSIBLE BY --THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.

JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A. ANDSIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHTANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILAAND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

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SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSONAND JOANGANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TOBRIDGING CULTURALDIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARAHOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATIONFROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> >> A WARM WELCOME TO THEPROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M PAULA NEWTONIN NEWYORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

DONALDTRUMP IS PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATESONCE AGAIN COMPLETING AREMARKABLE POLITICAL COMEBACK.

HEREHEIS TAKING THE OATH OF OFFICE TODAYINSIDE OF THEVERY SAME BUILDING HIS SUPPORTERSSTORMED JUST FOUR YEARS AGO.

HE RETURNSTO THE WHITE HOUSE HAVINGSURVIVED TWO ASSASSINATION ATTEMPTS,A PAIR OFIMPEACHMENTS AND FOUR CRIMINAL INDICTMENTSAND ONE CONVICTION.

HE IS BEGINNING HIS SECOND TERM WITHA FLOURISH OFHIS PRESIDENTIAL POWER PLEDGINGCLOSE TO 100 EXECUTIVE ACTIONS ONIMMIGRATION,ENERGY PRODUCTION AND FEDERALGOVERNMENT OPERATIONS.

>> THE GOLDENAGE OF AMERICA BEGINS RIGHT NOW.

[APPLAUSE ]FROM THIS DAY FORWARD,OUR COUNTRY WILL FLOURISH AND BE RESPECTEDAGAINALL OVER THE WORLD.

WE WILL BETHE ENVY OF EVERY NATION, AND WE WILLNOTALLOW OURSELVES TO BE TAKEN ADVANTAGEOFANY LONGER.

DURING EVERY SINGLEDAY OF THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, IWILL VERY SIMPLY PUT AMERICA FIRST.

[ APPLAUSE ]OUR SOVEREIGNTY WILL BERECLAIMED.

OUR SAFETY WILL BE RESTORED.

THE SCALES OF JUSTICE WILL BEREBALANCED.

THE VICIOUS VIOLENT ANDUNFAIR WEAPONIZATION OF THE JUSTICEDEPARTMENT AND OUR GOVERNMENT WILLEND.

[ APPLAUSE ] AND OUR TOP PRIORITYWILL BETO CREATE A NATION THAT IS PROUD,PROSPEROUS AND FREE.

>> FOR JOE BIDEN'SPART, HE HAS ISSUED A NUMBER OF PREEMPTIVEPARDONS IN THE FINAL HOURS AS PRESIDENT,AND THEY ARE NOTABLE AS WELL.

HERE TO DISSECT PRESIDENT TRUMP'SINAUGURALADDRESS AND WHAT IT SIGNALS ABOUTTHE FOUR YEARS TO COME ISDAVID FRUM.

HE IS A FORMER SPEECHWRITERFORPRESIDENT BUSH AND NOW STAFF WRITERAT "THE ATLANTIC" AND I WANT TO WELCOMEYOUTO THE PROGRAM ON THIS HISTORIC DAY,DAVID.

>> THANK YOU.

>> DONALD TRUMP, ASWE HAVE WRITTEN,CONVICTED FELON AND TWICE IMPEACHEDAND HE TOOK THE OATH OF OFFICE INTHE BUILDING THAT THE SUPPORTERS OVERRANAND I DON'T HAVE TOREMIND YOU JUST FOUR YEARS AGO ANDCAN YOU REFLECT ON ALL OFTHIS FOR US, AND HOW DO YOU ACCOUNTNOW SEVERAL WEEKS NOW FOR THEEXTRAORDINARY HISTORY-MAKING CAMPAIGNTHATHE LED AND HIS INAUGURATIONTODAY?

>> WELL, AS YOU SAID, IN JANUARYOF 2017, DONALD TRUMP SWORE AN OATHTO UPHOLDAND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION OF THEUNITED STATES, AND IN JANUARYOF 2021, HE VIOLATED THE OATHBY ORGANIZING AN ATTEMPTEDVIOLENT OVERTHROW OF THEELECTION, AND IN JANUARY OF 2025,HE ISSWEARING THE SAME OATH AGAIN.

WE WILLSEE IF HE KEEPS ITANY BETTER THIS TIME.

ITIS A QUESTION OF GREAT SIGNIFICANCEWHETHER THE CRIMES OFTHE FIRST TERM WILL BE REPEATED INTHIS SECONDTRUMP TERM.

>> SO MUCH IN THE REARVIEWMIRRORTHOUGH, AND YOU COULD SEE HE WAS DEFINITELYTURNING APAGE ON ALL OF THAT TODAY.

I WANTYOU TO LISTEN TOA LITTLE BIT OF DONALD TRUMP'S INAUGURATIONSPEECH.

LISTEN.

>> MY RECENT ELECTION ISA MANDATE TO COMPLETELY AND TOTALLYREVERSE A HORRIBLEBETRAYAL AND ALL OF THESE MANY BETRAYALSTHATHAVE TAKEN PLACE, AND TO GIVE THEPEOPLE BACK THEIR FAITH,THEIR WEALTH, THEIR DEMOCRACY ANDINDEED THEIR FREEDOM.

FROM THIS MOMENTON, AMERICA'SDECLINE IS OVER.

[ APPLAUSE ] >> YOU DEFINITELY NOTICETHATPRESIDENT BIDEN AND VICE PRESIDENTHARRIS, FORMER NOW, LOOKING ON THEREAS HE SAID ALL THAT, AND AS AFORMER SPEECHWRITER, HOW DO YOU RATETHESPEECH GIVEN THAT HE RETURNED TO SOMANY THEMES THAT WE HEARDIN THE CAMPAIGN?

>> WELL, THIS SPEECHWAS A SERIESOF COMMITMENTS.

BUT HALF OF THE COMMITMENTSWERE THINGS THAT HE WOULD DO, ANDHALF OFTHE COMMITMENTS WERE ABOUT WHAT OTHERPEOPLE WOULD THINK ABOUTTHOSE COMMITMENTS THAT WE WILL BEADMIRED AND WE WILL BEFEARED AND WE WILL BE GLORIOUS.

NOW,HE IN FACT,HAS NO CONTROL OVER WHAT OTHERS WILLTHINK OF HISACTIONS, BUT HE ONLY HAS CONTROL OVERHIS ACTION, ANDSO YOU TAKE THE PARTS HOW HETHINKS OTHERS WILL FEEL, SLICE THATOUT, AND IT ISEMPTY AND PROBABLY UNTRUE WORDS, BECAUSEWHEN YOU ARE LOOKING ATTHE THINGS THAT HE HAS CONTROL OVEROF WHAT HE WILLDO, HE PROMISED TO RESUME TERRITORIALEXPANSION BYTHE UNITED STATES, AND WE KNOW THATSOME OF THE TARGETS THAT HE HASIN MIND --GREENLAND, PANAMA, PERHAPSCANADA.

HE HAS A PLANNED TERRITORIAL AGGRESSION,ANDWILL OTHERS SEE A PLAN OF TERRITORIALAGGRESSION BYTHE LARGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD ANDTHINK, WHAT WONDERFUL PEOPLEOR THINK THAT THE WORLD ORDERIS DISSOLVING, AND MEANWHILE, HE HADNOTA WORD ABOUT THE WORLD AGGRESSIONTHAT THE UNITED STATESIS TRYING TOREPEL IN UKRAINE.

IF THE UNITED STATESCAN SEIZEGREENLAND AND SEIZE PANAMAANDOTHERS, WHY NOT IN OTHERS.

AND INTHE AGE OF THE AGGRESSORS AND THEAGE OF THEEXPANSIONIST HAS RETURNED, ANDOUR TURN, TOO.

>> TO PICK UP ON SOMEOF THE THOUGHT,AND WRITING IN "THE ATLANTIC" AFEW HOURS AFTER DIGESTING THIS, YOUSAID AS A RESULT OF THEELECTION, THE UNITED STATES IS GOINGTO BECOME A DIFFERENT KIND OF COUNTRY.

HOW SO?

>> THE UNITED STATES SINCETHE WORLD WAR II TWO HAS SEEN THESECURITY ANDPROSPERITY PROTECTED AND BENEFIT FROMA WORLDOF INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION.

TREATIESOF TRADE AND SECURITY, AND IT HASWORKED WITH PARTNERSTO BUILD A WORLD IN WHICH THE UNITEDSTATES HASBENEFITED ENORMOUSLY, AND THAT ISTRUE FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.

AMERICANS DON'T HAVE TO LEARN A SECONDLANGUAGE FOR THE MOST PART, ANDMANY DO, AND YET I CONGRATULATE THEM,BUT FOR THE MOSTPART, AMERICANS CAN GO ABOUT THEIRLIVES SPEAKING ONLY ENGLISHIN A WAY THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR GERMANAND SWEDES AND DANISH AND DUTCH, ANDALLOF THAT IS BECAUSE OF A WORLDORDER BUILT SINCE 1945 WITH WORLDPARTNERSHIPS.

DONALD TRUMP IS DESCRIBED AS ANISOLATIONIST, BUT AS THIS SPEECH MAKESCLEAR, IT IS NOT TRUE.

HE HASA LOT TO SAY ABOUT THE REST OF THEWORLD, AND THERELATIONSHIP WITH THE REST OF THEWORLD IS NOTISOLATION,BUTPREDATION.

I THINK IT IS LESS INTERESTINGTHAT HE UNDERSTANDS HOWTHE TARIFFS WORK, AND THEY ARE PAIDBYTHE TARIFF-IMPOSING NATION, AND THEYRAISE THE PRICEOF GOODS WHICH IS THE POINT OF THETARIFFS, BUT THEVISION OF THE HEANDS HOW THEY WORK, YOU CAN GET RICHBY TAKINGFROM OTHERS AND THIS IS TRUEOF HIS BUSINESS CAREER, ANDHE IS LOOKING AT THE COINS THAT HEHOPES THATPEOPLE WILL TRANSLATE TO HIM.

BUTHE BELIEVES THAT YOU GET WEALTHBY TAKING WEALTH FROM OTHERS.

>> YOUARE PAINTING A DARKPICTURE THERE, AND YOU ARGUE THATAMERICAN INSTITUTIONS ARE STILL STANDING.

HE SEEMS TO BEBACKING AWAY FROM AT LEAST SOME OFTHE PLEDGES ALREADY INTHE FIRST HOURS.

DOES THIS GIVE YOUA SENSE THAT PERHAPS ITWAS CAMPAIGN RHETORIC AND NOT SOMETHINGTHAT HE PLANS TO PUT IN BLACKAND WHITE AND ACT ON LEGALLY?

>>WELL, THE ROMAN EMPIRE HAS BEEN GONEFOR A LONG TIME, BUTTHE PANTHEON AND THE COLISEUM ARESTILLSTANDING, SO YOU CAN HAVE SOMEVISIBLE REMAINS OF A GENERALLY RUINEDFUTURE.

THE AMERICAN INSTITUTIONS ARE MOSTLYTHERE, IT IS TRUE,BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE A NEWINSTITUTION.

UNTIL DONALD TRUMP, ANDIT WAS NOT CLEAR FOR250 YEARS, AND NEARLY 250 YEARS ANDQUARTEROF A MILLENNIUM, IT WAS NOT CLEARIF THE PRESIDENT HAD CRIMINAL IMMUNITYOR NOT, AND THE QUESTIONNEVER CAME UP, AND WASHINGTON NEVERHAD TO ASK IF HEWAS IMMUNE FROM CRIMINAL PROSECUTION,LINCOLN,REAGAN, BUTWITH DONALD TRUMP, THE SYSTEM HADTO ASK,AND THE COURTS SAID THAT, YES, HEISIMMUNE, AND THAT IS NEW DOCTRINE OFAMERICAN LAW,AND SO THAT IS A NEW PERSONAL INSTITUTIONOF CRIMINALIMMUNITY, AND TO A GREATER EXTENTTHE CRIMINAL IMMUNITYOF THE PRESIDENT.

WE WILL BE CREATINGMORE DOCTRINESLIKE THAT, BECAUSE WE HAVE HAD TOFACEWHAT TRUMP IS OR WAYS TO PROTECT HIMSELFAND THE COUNTRY FROM THECONSEQUENCES OF HIS ACTIONS.

>>IN TERMS OF THE DOMESTIC POLICIES,THEEXPECTATIONS ARE ACTUALLY QUITE HIGH,AND YOU SAY THAT DONALD TRUMP DOESBEST AS A GOOD TIMESPRESIDENT, AND THEREARE BUMPIER TIMES AHEAD, AND A LOTOF PEOPLEARE FEELING IT ALREADY, AND THEREIS EXPECTATION THERE, AND ITIS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT FOR HIM TOMEET THAT EXPECTITATION, AND HOW ISTHE PLAYING FIELD THOUGH DIFFERENTTHISTIME, AND WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR TRUMP'SPRESIDENCY?

>> SO IN 2017, DONALD TRUMP INHERITEDA VERY STRONG ECONOMY AND GENERALLYSTABLE WORLD.

HE DREW DIVIDENDS ONTHAT INHERITANCE ON THAT FOR THREEYEARS UNTIL HE ENCOUNTEREDTHE FIRST TRUE CRISIS OF THEPRESIDENCY, THE PANDEMIC, WHICH HEBASICALLYBUNGLED, AND IF THE AMERICANS HADBEENFULLY VACCINATED THEN 330,000 MOREPEOPLE WOULDHAVE SURVIVED COVID THAN DID, ANDTHE CAMPAIGN OF DENIALAND ANTI-SCIENCE RUN BY HIS ADMINISTRATIONDESPITE THEGOOD WORK ON VACCINES, AND NOW HEISINHERITING AGAIN, A GENERALLY STRONGECONOMY, BUTTHIS TIME IN 2017, HE INHERITED LOW INTEREST RATES, BUT NOWIT IS RISING INTEREST RATES.

HE WASUNSURETO PROCEED WITH TRADE WARS AND NOWHE IS GOING TO DO IT RIGHT AWAY.

SO THOSE ARE THE BIG SHADOWS THE RISKOF TRADE WARS ANDTHE REALITY OF RISING INTERESTRATE.

IT IS NOT CLEAR THAT ECONOMICEXPANSION IS GOING ON TO CONTINUETO RUNAS STRONGLY AS THE ONE HE INHERITEDIN2017 DID.

>> IN TERMS OF THEOUTGOING PRESIDENTS, ONE OF JOE BIDEN'SFINAL ACTS AS PRESIDENT, HEPREEMPTIVELY PARDONED GENERALMARK MILLEY, DR. FAUCI, AND MEMBERSOF THEJANUARY 6th COMMITTEE AND A SIGNIFICANTNUMBER OF HISFAMILY MEMBERS.

HOW DO YOU THINK THISGOING TO GO OVER?

IS THIS A PROPORTIONALRESPONSE TO TRUMP, AND DID HE HAVEREASON TOWORRY ABOUT THE RETRIBUTIONOR AS MANY SAID, I THANK YOU FOR THEPARDON, BUTI DIDN'T DO ANYTHING WRONG, AND IDON'T NEED IT.

>> OF COURSE THEREIS REASON FOR RETRIBUTION, AND INTHE FACTTHAT HE HAS CONTINUALLYPLEDGED RETRIBUTION, AND TODAY INTHE ADDRESS HE SAID THAT HE WANTEDTOUNDO THE HORRIBLE THINGS THAT HAVEDONE TO HIM INTHE PAST EIGHT YEARS.

SO, THERE ISA LOT TO WORRYABOUT, BUT THIS IS THE WRONG ANSWER.

ONE OFTHE GAPS IN JOEBIDEN'S PRESIDENCY,HE NEVER UNDERSTOOD OR APPRECIATEDTHE POWER OF THE PRESIDENCY AND MAKEAMERICANS UNDERSTAND THESTAKES.

WHEN HE SPREADS THESE PARDONSHITHER ANDWIDE AND HE DOES NOT DEFEND GENERALMILLEY, AND THE PRESIDENT COULD SUMMONHIM BACK TO DUTY AND COURT-MARTIAL HIM, AND MILLEY HAS SAID THATHE WANTED TO KILLAND EXECUTE MILLEY, AND MILLEY ISAT REAL RISK,BUT FOR HIS OWN FAMILY MEMBERS ANDINCLUDING HISSON, HE SHOULD HAVE SAID, WE HAVETOEDUCATE THE COUNTRY.

IF TRUMP PERSECUTESAND PROSECUTES THEM, LET HIM DO ITAND SEE WHAT IT MEANS.

SOMETIMES THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE HADMAJORPOSITIONS OF RESPONSE B89 RESPONSE--RESPONSIBILITY HAVE TO ACCEPTGREAT RISKS.

AND IT IS GOING TO BEPARTOF SOME OF THE ACTIONS HE IS PLANNINGFOR THE FUTURE.

>> THERE IS A LONG LIST OFTHE EXECUTIVE ORDERS AND WE KNOW THATIT STARTED IN CANADASOME TIME AGO WITH THE COMMON SENSEREVOLUTION, BUTIT TENDS TO DISTILL THINGS LIKE LANGUAGEAND POLICIESTO THE POINT WHERE THE ELECTORATECAN UNDERSTAND IT, BUT ITBELIES REALLY, AND IT GIVES SIMPLESOLUTIONSTO WHAT IS INADEQUATE SOLUTIONS TOWHAT AREINCREDIBLY COMPLICATED PROBLEMS.

DOYOU BELIEVEHIS ADMINISTRATION WILL BE ABLE TOFOLLOW THROUGH EVENIF PERHAPS THE LANGUAGE THEY USEWILL STILL BE REMINISCENT OF THECAMPAIGN?

>> LOOK.

THE PRESIDENT HASBROAD AUTHORITYTO IMPOSE TARIFFS AND HE HASMADE IT CLEAR HE INTENDS TO, ANDBROAD AUTHORITY OVER IMMIGRATION,AND HE CANDO MASSIVE ROUND-UPS, AND IF HE HASACCESS TO PLANESAND BUSES, HE CAN EXPEL PEOPLE FROMTHE COUNTRY, ANDHE CAN DO THOSE THINGS.

PANAMA DOESNOTHAVE MUCH AUTHORITY, BUT HE CAN INVADETHEM, ANDHE CAN INVADE GREENLAND, AND THEREARE HUNDREDS OF TROOPSTHERE, AND DENMARK IS OBVIOUSLY NOTGOING TO BE ABLE TO STOP THEM.

SO THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT HE WILLBE ABLE TO DO,BUT REMEMBER, HE KEEPS PROMISING,BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP LIVES INTHE EYES OF OTHERS AND HE IS PROMISINGABOUT HOW OTHERSWILL THINK ABOUT IT, AND HE SAYS THATOTHERS WILLADMIRE THE UNITED STATES AND RESPECTTHE UNITEDSTATES, AND THAT IS ADISCONNECT, BECAUSE THEPREDIDATION WILL NOT COOPERATE.

>>AND SO,HOW DOES THIS COMPLIMENT THEBUSH DOCTRINE?

>>WELL, PRESIDENT BUSH WAS THE AUTHOROF THEBUSH DOCTRINE.

>> YOU WROTE MANY SPEECHES.

>>ONE THING AS A SPEECHWRITER IS THATYOU LOSE FACT THATYOU ARE THE MAKEUP ARTIST AND YOUARE THERETO MAKE SURE THAT THE PRINCIPAL LOOKSGOOD, AND IHAVE SEEN THIS DISEASE WHERE HE SAYS,MY GOD, HE ISSAYING MY WORDS BURK NO, YOU ARE ANTICIPATINGANDCHANNELING AND IMPROVING HIWORDS, AND IT IS A HUMBLE JOB ANDDON'T FORGET IT.

THE DIFFERENCEWITH DONALD TRUMP AND GEORGE W. BUSHIS THAT BUSHSPOKE OF THE LANGUAGE OF DEMOCRACY.

THAT WAS HIS VISION.

HE WAS NOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL, ANDWE WERENOT ALWAYS SUCCESSFUL IN SPREADINGTHE IDEAL OFDEMOCRACY AS WE WOULD HAVE LIKED BURKIT ISLIKED, BUT IT IS APOWERFUL IDEAL EVEN WHEN IT DOES NOTWORK OUT IN EVERYINSTANCE.

AND BUSH WAS A FREETRADER, ANDHE BELIEVED THAT AMERICA NEEDED ALLIESANDPARTNERS AND HE WAS NOT A PREDATORAND HE BELIEVEDIN INTERNATIONAL LAW.

HE SPOKE ABOUTIT ELOQUENTLY, AND THE REKD CORD ISNOT PERFECT, AND NEVER IS, AND IFANYONEHAS THE LOOKOF SHOCK ANDWE TOTHAT AMAZING ASSESSMENT, THAT WOULDBE GEORGE W. BUSH.

>> ONE OF THE ARTICLESIS ENTITLED, "WHATNOW"?

AND SO HE IS THE PRESIDENT FORTHE NEXT FOUR YEARSAND I ASK YOU WHAT NOW, BECAUSE YOUUNDERSTAND THEENTHUSIASM OF WHICH SO MANY AMERICANSARE GREETING HIS SECOND TERM?

>> WHATNOW IS POLITICAL BUMPINESS.

HE HASA TINYMAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

HE HAS ATHIN, AND GENERAL POPULAR MANDATEWHICH IS SOMETHING THAT HEDID NOT HAVE THE FIRST TIME, BUT THESECOND TIME, AND THIS IS SOMETHING.

BUTAGAIN, IT IS THERE ON A PROMISEOF CERTAIN AND IMMEDIATE HOUSEHOLDBENEFITS THAT TRUMPWILL STOP THE RISE IN PRICES AND REVERSEIT.

HE PROMISEDLOWER PRICES, AND HE PROMISED TORAPIDLY RESTORE ORDER AND TORAPIDLY RESTORE CALM ON THEBORDER WITHOUT GETTING US INTO A SHOOTINGWAR WITHINMEXICO.

THOSE ARE PROMISES THAT HEMADE, AND WE WILL SEE IF HEDELIVERS.

IT IS A FOUR-YEAR PRESIDENCY,BUT MAYBE ONLY ATWO-YEAR MAJORITY IN THE HOUSE OFREPRESENTATIVES.

>> DOYOU MEAN TO SAY THAT THERE IS SOMERESISTANCE THERE, AND HEONLY HAS THE LIMITED TIME LINE TOPUT IT ININTOEFFECT?

I HAVE TROUBLE SEEING THEPRESIDENT TRUMP AS A LAME DUCK PRESIDENTIN ANYAREA.

>> HE HAS A WORLD OF --FOREXAMPLE, ONE TOCH OF THE THINGSTHAT HE COULD DO IS TO GOOSE THE ECONOMYBY ABIG TAX CUT.

THAT BIG TAX CUT IN2017 EXPIRES FOR THE MOST PART IN2025, AND IFHE RENEWS THE TAX CUT, THAT GOINGTO BE TAKING A LOT OF THE FISCALROOM.

IF YOU WANT TO PASS A FISCALMEASURE, THE WAYYOU GET IT TO TAKE ONLY 50 VOTES INTHE SENATEINSTEAD OF 60 BY MAKING SURE ITIS DEFICIT-NEUTRAL OVER A 10-YEARPERIOD.

SO YOU HAVEA CERTAIN AMOUNT OF ROOM, AND YOUHAVE TO BE CAREFUL TO USE IT,BUT HE IS GOING TO BE USING IT TORENEW THE EXISTING TAXCUTS, AND SO ANOTHER ONE THAT GIVESANOTHER DEGREEOF STIMULUS, AND MEANWHILE, HE ISTALKING ABOUT HAVINGTHE TARIFFS AS A SOURCE OF REVENUE,BUT THE REVENUE OF THETARIFF IS A TAX INCREASE AND IT ISGOINGTO FALL ESPECIALLY HARD ON THE HOUSEHOLDSTHAT CONSUME THE MOST.

IFTHE PLANS GO THE WAY HE TALKED ABOUTIN THE CAMPAIGN,THE ECONOMISTS SAY THAT THETYPICAL HOUSEHOLD WILL FACE ANOTHER$2,000TAX BREAK ON THETYPICAL HOUSEHOLDA AND TARIFF IS NOTON THE FINISHEDGOOD, THE TOMATO OR AVOCADO THAT YOUGET FROMMEXICO, BUT IT IS ANY PRODUCT WITHAFOREIGN COMPONENT.

SO TAKE A GASKET,AND PUT A TARIFF ONIT, AND RAISE THE PRICE AND THEN ITGOES INTO THEAMERICAN PRODUCT, AND IT IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

YOU TARIFF THE MEXICANGLASS, THE OFFICE BUILDINGS IN AMERICAARE MORE EXPENSIVE.

YOU TARIFF THE MEXICAN BEER, THEYBUY LESSBARLEY.

>> IT WAS NOT CONVINCE ARGUMENTFOR THE DEMOCRATS INTHE CAMPAIGN, AND WE WILL SEE HOWTHETARIFF ECONOMY FARES UNDERTHIS ADMINISTRATION.

I DO HAVE -- >>AND THE ELECTION -- >> THANK YOU FOR YOURINSIGHTS, DAVID FRUM.

>> THANK YOU.

> >>AND NOW N A RARE CONVERGENCE,TODAY'SINAUGURATION COLLIDES WITHMARTIN LUTHER KING JR. DAY.

ATTHE EBENEZER CHURCH, ITHAS FOCUSED ONPROTECTING JUSTICE AND DEMOCRACY.

I WANT YOU TO LISTEN NOWTO DR. KING'S YOUNGEST DAUGHTER, BERNICE.

>> FOR SOME,TODAY, THE KING HOLIDAY IS A DAY TOCHAMPION FREEDOM, JUSTICE ANDDEMOCRACY.

AND FOR OTHERS IT IS TODECRY D. E. I.

AND DECRY A LEGACYOF JUSTICE, PEACE AND LOVE AND DISTORTTHE MEANING OFKING'S WORDS.

BUT REGARDLESS OF HOWTHISDAY SHOWS UP FOR YOU, WEMUST REMEMBER THE MISSION AND BE INPURSUIT OF IT.

>>WE MUST REMEMBER THE MISSION AND BEIN PURSUIT OF IT.

TODAY'S OVERLAP OF THE PROMPTING OFTHE LESSONS THAT CAN STILL BE LEARNEDFROM DR. KING'S PHILOSOPHY.

IMANI PERRY ISPROFESSOROF AFRICAN AND AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDIESATHARVARD UNIVERSITY AND HER BOOK "BLACKIN BLUES" TAKESA DEEP DIVE INTO THE COLOR BLUE ANDITS ROLE IN BLACK HISTORY AND CULTURE.

I THANK YOU, ANDI WELCOME YOU TO THE PROGRAM TODAY.

WE WOULD LOVE TO HAVE YOURPERSONAL REFLECTIONS RIGHT NOW, THEMEANING OF THE DAY AND GIVENWHAT WE JUST HEARD THERE AT THAT COMMEMORATIVESERVICETHIS MORNING, WE DO WANT TOTALKABOUT THIS DAY AND HOW IT IS CELEBRATEDIN HOUSEHOLDS ESPECIALLY NOW THATITIS COINCIDING WITH THE PIVOTAL MOMENTINHISTORY.

>> YEAH.

THANK YOU SO MUCHFOR HAVING ME.

I WILL SAY THIS ISAPARTICULARLY CHALLENGING HOLIDAY,PARTICULARLY FOR THOSE OFUS WHO CONSIDER OURSELVES INHERITERSOF THE LEGACY OF DR. KING ANDTHE SOUTHERN FREEDOM MOVEMENT ANDYET BERNICE KINGIS EXACTLY RIGHT, WE HAVE TO REDOUBLETHE EFFORTS AND THE COMMITMENTS TOTHE VISION OF JUSTICETHAT HE NOT ONLY MODELED,BUT ACTUALLY LINKED ARMS WITH SO MANYAMERICANSTO ACHIEVE AND FOR ME PERSONALLY,I BELIEVE IT IS THIS REMINDERAS WE ARE SEEING THE LEGACY OF DR. KING ATTACKED ON SO MANYFRONTS, AND THE VISION FOR A JUSTSOCIETY ATTACKED ON SOMANY FRONTS, AND THAT THESE ARE NOTNEW FORCES.

IN MANY WAYS,YOU KNOW, THIS ISA PARTICULARLY PERNICIOUS EXAMPLEOF IT, ANDTHAT THOSE WHO THINK AS PRESIDENTTRUMPTHINKS HAVE BEEN AROUND SINCE THEBEGINNING OF THE NATION, AND THE NATIONIS ACHIEVED IN ITS DOING.

SO IFWE WANT A SOCIETY THAT LOOKS CLOSERTO THEVISION THAT DR. KING HELD, THE VISIONOFJUSTICE, OF EGALITARIANISM,OF GENEROSITY, OF A VISION OF A SOCIETYTHATIS NOT DIVIDED SO MUCHBY THE HAVES AND THE HAVE NOTS ANDISDEEPLY DEMOCRATIC, THEN WE HAVE TODO SOMETHING ABOUTIT.

SO, IT IS NOT LIKE SIMPLY ACOMMEMORATIVE MOMENT, BUT IT IS ACTUALLYA MOMENT WHEN WE HAVE TO BEREMINDED OF WHAT HE CHARGED USWITH DOING.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

IT ISA DUTY THAT HESAID, THAT HE INVOKED MANY TO GETINVOLVED IN.

MLK DAY AS YOU ARERIGHTLY POINT OUT, IT IS A DAY OFSERVICE,AND SO MANY PEOPLE VOLUNTEERING WITHPEOPLEVOLUNTEERING AT CONCERTS AND PARADESAND ON THISDAY, A LOT OF THE VOLUNTEERISM INPLACES LIKE L. A.

WHERE THEY ARETRYING TO BATTLE THOSE FIRES.

YOUKNOW, BLACK ACTIVISTS ARE PLANNINGTO SKIP ORTUNE OUT MANY OF THEM TRUMP'S INAUGURATIONINFAVOR OF MLK DAY.

BERNICE KING, AGAIN, AND I WANTEDYOU TO LISTEN TOWHAT SHE SAYS, AND SHE SAYS THATSHE UNDERSTANDS THE DESIRE TO TUNEOUT RHETORIC ANDPOLICIES IN WHICH WE PASSIONATELYDISAGREE ORCONTRADICT THE SPIRIT OF THE BELOVEDCOMMUNITY, BUTHOWEVER, HER WORDS, WE MUST PAY ATTENTIONTOWHAT PRESIDENT-ELECT TRUMP SPEAKSON THIS DAY.

THIS IS NOTA TIME FOR IGNORANCE.

HOW DO YOUINTERPRET HER WORDS?

>>I EAN, I INTERPRET HER WORDS TOMEAN IN THE TRADITION OF THE MOVEMENTWEHAVE TO OPERATE WITH KNOWLEDGE, WITHINFORMATION.

I THINK THAT THE DANGER, AND PERHAPSTHE REASONTHAT MANY PEOPLE ARE CHOOSING TO TUNEOUT ISTHAT IT'S DANGEROUS TO ACTUALLYHAVE A HYSTERICAL RESPONSEOR TO BE SO, TO GRIEVE SOINTENSELY OR TO BE SOTERRIFIED THAT YOU CAN NOT MOVE THOUGHTFULLY.

SO, I THINK THAT,YOU KNOW, I THINK IT IS WISE TO SAY,YES, WE HAVE TOPAY ATTENTION, BUT WE HAVE TOPAY ATTENTION IN A WAY THAT IS NOTPASSIVE, BUT THAT IS ACTIVE.

SO IF WE SEE MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY,MEMBERS OFOUR FAMILY, MEMBERS OF OUR ORGANIZATIONUNDER ATTACK ORWE SEE THE INCREASED VULNERABILITYOF ALL OF THESECTORS OF THE POPULATION, THEN WHATARE WE GOING TO DOABOUT IT SO WE CAN FIND OUT THE INFORMATIONABOUT HOW PEOPLEARE GOING TO BECOME INCREASINGLYVULNERABLE.

THEN THE NEXT STEP ISNECESSARY WHICH IS TO SAY,OKAY, I KNOW, AND NOW, WHAT AM I GOINGTODO, AND THE FEAR IS THAT SOMETIMESWHEN WE AREPASSIVE LISTENERS, WE GETSO OVERWHELMED THAT WE DON'T NECESSARILYTAKE THE NEXT STEP.

SOI THINK THAT THERE IS A BALANCE TONOTBE SO OVERWHELMED BYTHE INFORMATION THAT WE ARE PARALYZED,BUT IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE THATWE HAVE TO PAY CAREFUL ATTENTION INTHISMOMENT.

>> IT IS A STARK JUXTAPOSITIONTO THE LAST TIME THAT MLK DAY INTERSECTEDWITH THE INAUGURATION.

THE LAST TIME BARACK OBAMA IN2013, THE SECOND TERM, ANDHE USED THE MLK BIBLETHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING USED AS HETRAVELED AMERICA FIGHTING FORTHE FREEDOM.

AND TODAY, INTRUMP'S INAUGURAL ADDRESS HE MARKEDMLK DAY BY PROMISING TO MAKE HIS DREAMCOME TRUE.

HESAID THAT NATIONAL UNITY IS NOW RETURNINGTO AMERICA.

THIS PARTYIS REALLY AT THE CENTER OF SIGNIFICANTBACKLASH OF THE STRUGGLESOF DIVERSITYAND INCLUSION OF AMERICA, AND D. E. I.

IS WEAPONIZED AND TOXIC IN THE CULTUREWARS.

WE HAVE SEEN IT UNFORTUNATELYAGAIN, EVEN AS I SAID, THE L. A. WILDFIRES.

WE HAVE SEEN THE SUPREMECOURT STRIKE DOWNAFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN COLLEGES ANDREAL IMPLICATIONS FROM THATALREADY.

CAN YOU REFLECT ON THE BACKLASHIN THIS MOMENT RIGHT NOW?

>> OH, SURE.

IMEAN, THE BACKLASH IN SO MANYWAYS IS AN EFFORT TO RELITIGATE THE'60s AND '70s, TOUN-DO THESOCIAL MOVEMENTS, THE WOMEN'SMOVEMENTS, THE LGBTQ MOVEMENT ANDTHEPOOR PEOPLE'S MOVEMENT THAT WAS ATTHE VERY TAIL END OF DR. KING'S JOURNEYON THIS EARTH.

AND SO THERE IS ANEXTENDEDBACKLASH, AND IT HAS AN INTENSITYAND FERVOR NOW THATIS PERHAPS UNPRECEDENTED, BUT IMEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE AREREQUIRED TO DO IN THISMOMENT IS TO ACTUALLY BE VERY CLEARABOUTHOW DISINGENUOUSTHATINVOCATION IS OF TRUMP,AND THAT PEOPLE ACTUALLY ATTEND TOWHAT HE SAID ANDDID, AND THAT HE WAS NOT SIMPLY THETWO-DIMENSIONAL IMAGE OF MEMES ANDQUOTES, BUTHE WAS A DEEP THINKER AND A PERSONWHO GREWUP WITH A CERTAIN DEGREE OF PRIVILEGEAND ACCESS FORTHE BLACK PERSON IN THE SOUTH WITHA TIME PERIOD ANDNEVERTHELESS DECIDED THAT HE WOULDSACRIFICE SO MANY OFTHE COMFORTS OF HIS LIFE BECAUSE HEWAS A BELIEVER IN JUSTICE.

HEWENT TO JAIL.

HE LINKED ARMS WITHTHOSE WHO AREMOST VULNERABLE, AND THAT IS ACTUALLYREALLYTHE RESPONSIBILITY IF WEARE GOING TO --WE CAN'T ALLOW FORTHE EMPTYINVOCATIONS OF DR. KING BY PEOPLEWHO WOULD WANT TOUNDO HIS LEGACY.

NOW, WHAT POLICYTHAT ACTUALLY LEADS TO IS AN OPENQUESTION, BUT ITWITHOUT ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY THAT THOSEFORCESIN POSITION OF POWER RIGHT NOW WISHTO DODAMAGE TO DR. KING AND THE FREEDOMMOVEMENT -- >> YOU SEE HIM ASA THREAT?

YOU CLEARLY SEE THIS ASA THREAT?

>> IDON'T KNOW THAT THE WORD IS ATHREAT INASMUCH AS IT IS INSINCEREAT THE UTMOST.

SO WE MOVE ON FROMTHAT, AND WE RECOMMIT TO ACTUALLYTHINKING ABOUT WHAT IT MEANSTO LIVE IN A JUSTSOCIETY.

>> DONALD TRUMP CERTAINLYTRIED TO ARTICULATE THATTODAY IN WHAT HE BELIEVES IS A JUSTSOCIETY.

HE TALKEDABOUT COLOR BLINDNESS, AND I WANTEDTO DRAWYOUR ATTENTION TO ANOTHER PART OFHIS SPEECH.

WE WILL FORGE ASOCIETY THAT IS COLOR BLIND ANDMERIT-BASED.

MANY PEOPLE TALKABOUT COLOR BLINDNESS, AND TO CREATEAMORE FAIR SOCIETY, BUT THERE ARESYSTEMIC FAILURES AND THERE IS INJUSTICEANDINEQUALITY AND PEOPLE LIVE IT EACHAND EVERYDAY, BUT WHEN WE ARE TALKINGABOUTGOING FORWARD WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION,WHERE THEY HAVE LAWSAND EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT SHOULD BEOVERLOOKEDAND EVERYTHING SHOULD BE MERIT-BASED,HOW DO YOU COUNTER THAT?

>>WELL, I DON'T EVEN THINK THAT IT ISTRUE.

WE CANSIMPLY LOOK AT THE KIND OF RHETORICTHEY HAVEWHICH IS SO OFTEN OVERTLYDISCRIMINATORY, AND TRUMP HIMSELFHAS IT THATACTUALLY THAT IS NOT A SINCERE INDICATIONOFTHE VALUES OF COLOR BLINDNESSAND FAIRNESS AND AMERITOCRACYAND IN FACT, ALL OF THE PEOPLEINCREDIBLY NOT QUALIFIED IN POWERTHATTHEY DON'T BELIEVE IN AMERITOCRACY,BUT THE LARGER QUESTIONIS HOW DO WE, THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVEIN EQUITY AND FAIRNESS AND JUSTICEAND DEMOCRACY, ORGANIZE OURSELVESTOCREATE MEANINGFUL OPPORTUNITIES FORPEOPLE AND ACCESS FORPEOPLE IRRESPECTIVE OF WHERE THEYARE.

SO, IT SHOULD NOT REQUIRE SOMEONETOHAVE ACCESS TO MOST ELITEINSTITUTION TO HAVE EXCELLENT EDUCATION,AND IT SHOULDNOT REQUIRE ACCESS TO INSTITUTIONSIN THE CORPORATE WORLD TOHAVE A MEANINGFUL OPPORTUNITY FORWORK.

SO ASCERTAIN DOORS CLOSE, I THINK THATWE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISIONABOUT HOW WE ARE GOING TOWORK TOGETHER TO KEEP THE DOORS OPENFOR MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITIES.

YOUKNOW, ANDNOT, SORT OFALLOW OURSELVES TO HAVE AN INSULARFRAME FOR THOSEIN POWER.

>> PROFESSOR PERRY, CANYOU SORTOF BRING US INTO THE FAMILIES RIGHTNOW HAVING THECONVERSATIONS AT THE KITCHEN TABLE.

THE YOUNGER GENERATION, S,AND THEY ARE HAVING CONVERSATION WITHFAMILY AND FRIENDS, ANDTHAT YOUNGER GENERATION, HOW DO THEYINTERPRET THISMOMENT IN TIME, AND BRING US TO THEKITCHEN TABLE CONVERSATION, BECAUSEIN SPEAKING TO MANY PEOPLE IN THELAST CAMPAIGN,THIS CONVERSATION WAS DIFFERENTTHIS TIME.

A PORTIONOF THEM, AND PRESIDENT TRUMP SAIDTHISIN HIS SPEECH, HE HAD MORE RESONANCEFOR PEOPLE OFCOLOR IN HIS CAMPAIGN.

>> WELL, ITHINK THAT CERTAINLY, ITIS THE CASE THAT ALL COMMUNITIES HAVEA WIDERANGE OF POLITICS AND COMMITMENTSANDIDEOLOGIES.

SO I ALMOST THINK THATTHE PEOPLE OF COLOR FRAMEDOESN'T ACTUALLY WORK FOR THINKINGABOUT THIS, BUT IWILL SAY THIS, AS A PARENT OF TWOYOUNG ADULTS, AS A PERSON WHOWAS A PART OF THE VERY FIRST GENERATIONFOR WHOMTHE DOORS OF THE SOCIETY WERE OPEN,YOUKNOW, MY MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHERAND GREAT GRANDS GREW UP IN JIM CROW,AND PRIOR TOTHAT, AND THE HISTORY OF ENSLAVEMENTSAND NOT THATMANY GENERATIONS PASSED.

THE CONVERSATIONSTHAT I AMHAVING WITH MY CHILDREN ON THE ONEHAND, AND THERE IS AHEARTBREAK ASSOCIATED WITH THE REALITYTHAT ALL OFTHOSE GENERATIONS OF STRUGGLE AREIN MANY WAYS BEINGERODED,AND ON THE OTHER HAND, WE HAVE SHIELDSAND STRATEGIES AND TECHNIQUES NOTONLY FOR SURVIVING AND EXTRAORDINARYBEAUTY IN THE FACE OFTHIS, AND I KNOW THAT THE CONVERSATIONSTHAT I AM HAVINGWITH MY CHILDREN IN THAT REGARD AREBEING HELDACROSS THE COUNTRY FOR PEOPLE WHOUNDERSTAND THAT AS HARD AS THIS MOMENTIS, THATWE ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING THAT WECAN DO IN THEFACE OF IT.

>>A LOT TO CONSIDER AND THINK OVER ANDI DOWANT TO HIGHLIGHT YOUR NEWBOOK, "BLACK IN BLUES," WHICH OF COURSEGIVES RISE TOSO MUCH HOPE FOR SO MANY PEOPLE.

PROFESSOR PERRY, THANKYOU, AGAIN, FOR YOUR INSIGHTS ON MLKDAY, 2025.

> >> AND NOW,WE TURN TO THE CEASE-FIRE BETWEENISRAELAND HAMAS WHICH ENTERED ITS SECONDDAY THIS MORNINGAFTER SEEING THE RELEASE SUNDAY OFTHREEISRAELI HOSTAGES AND 90 PALESTINIANPRISONERS.

ANDNOW, AFTER YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS,AN EXCRUCIATING DELAY, THE TRUCE FINALLYCAME INTOEFFECT AS THE WORLD WATCHED AND THREEYOUNG ISRAELIWOMEN WERE HANDED OVER TO THE REDCROSS, ANDSURROUNDED THERE BY MASKEDHAMASHILL MILITANTS.

AND ISRAEL IN RELIEFAFTER SEEING THEPICTURES OF THREE WOMEN MEETING THEIRMOTHERS INAN ARMY BASE OUTSIDE OF GAZA.

THEYSAIDTHANKFULLY ALL OF THEM TO BE IN GOODPHYSICAL HEALTH.

NOW, LAST YEAR,CHRISTIANE, SPOKEWITH MERAV GONEN WHO ISTHE MOTHER OF 23-YEAR-OLD ROMI GONEN.

SHEWAS TAKEN FROM THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVALANDRELEASED BY HAMAS YESTERDAY, AND THISIS WHATSHE TOLD US ABOUT WAITING FOR HERBELOVED DAUGHTER'S RETURN.

>> THISIS AGONIZING.

I CANNOT EVEN EXPLAIN HOW ITIS, HOW YOU FEEL WHEN YOU WAKE UPIN THE MORNING AND FORTHE FIRST MOMENTS YOU HOPE THAT THISIS ONLYA NIGHTMARE, A DREAM, A BAD DREAM,BUT THEN YOU ARE WAKING UP TOA REALITY.

OUT OF MY FIVE KIDS, I HAVE ONE KIDTHAT I DID NOT HEAR HER VOICE FORA YEAR.

I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE LOOKS LIKE TODAY,AND HOW SHEIS HOLDING UP.

DID SHE LOSTHER HAND, BECAUSE SHE WAS SHOT ONTHAT DAY?

IS SHE SMILING LIKE SHE ISALWAYS SMILE?

THIS IS SOAGONIZING, SO DIFFICULT.

>>HAPPY FOR ALL OF THEM.

NOW,90 PALESTINIANPRISONERS WERE FREED IN FRONTOF JUBILANT CROWDS AFTER BEING 20E8DTHEY WERE HELDIN HORRIFIC CONDITIONS IN THE ISRAELIJAILS.

YOU CANSEE THE FAMILIES THERE REUNITED WITHTHOSEOF PALESTINIANS SLOWLY RETURNING TOTHEIR HOMES ONLYTO FIND MANY OF THEM FLATTENED BYTHE FIGHTING.

NOW, IF THE FRAGILEDEAL HOLDS, THIS WAS JUST THE FIRSTOFWEEKLY HOSTAGE AND PRISONER SWAPSOVER THENEXTSIX S, AND WE CERTAINLY HOPE THEDEAL HOLDS.

> >> AND NOW, WE GO TOUKRAINEAND RUSSIA'S REINS TIGHTENING.

WELIVE IN AGEOPOLITICAL INSTABILITY.

ANDACCORDING FORECAST, PRESIDENT TRUMP'SPOLICY COULDADD FUEL TO THE POLICIES.

IAN BREMMER ISFOUNDER OF THE EURASIA GROUP,AND HE JOINS WALTER ISSACSONFOR A DISCUSSION.

>> THANKYOU, PAULA.

IAN BREMMER, WELCOME BACKTO THE SHOW.

>>GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> EVERY YEAR, YOURGROUP, THE EURASIA GROUP HAS A GLOBALRISK ASSESSMENT, AND THIS TIME, YOUSAY THAT WEARE HEADED BACK TO THE LAW OF THEJUNGLE, AND WHAT DO YOUMEAN BY THAT?

>> IT IS THEMOST DANGEROUS PERIOD GEOPOLITICALLYSINCE WORLD WAR IIOR THE EARLY COLD WAR BEFORE THECUBAN MISSILE CRISIS.

IT IS A WORLDWHERE THESTRONG DO WHAT THEY WILL, AND THEWEAK SUFFER WHAT THEY MUST.

ANDTHE UNITED STATES IS BOTH ANAN --IN ANINCREDIBLY STRONG POSITION COMPAREDTOCHINA AND RUSSIA,AND OTHERS LOSING THEIREMPIRE PROXIES INTHE REGION, BUT MILITARILY AND ALLOFTHE ALLIES WHICH IS CERTAINLY TRUECOMPARED TO WHERETRUMP'S U. S. WAS IN 2017.

SOTHE FACTTHAT THATPOWER IMBALANCE EXIST, AND INA POINT WHERE WE DON'T WANTTO PROMOTE GLOBAL TRADE ORRULE OF LAW OR DEMOCRACY, NO, WE WANTTO RIP UP OUR OWN GLOBAL ORDER WHICHIS NOTSOMETHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN IN HISTORYAND INSTEAD GET THE COUNTRIESTO CUT DEALS WITH USALLY AND WEDON'T CARE WHAT THE POLITICAL OR ECONOMICSYSTEMSARE, AND THEY WILL DEAL WITH US ORTHERE IS GOINGTO BE HE WILL, LLTO PAY, AND THATIS WHAT IS DRIVE SOG IS DRIVING SOMUCH OFTHE UNCERTAINTY IN THECOMING YEAR.

>> AND YOU SAY THAT ISTHETRUMP GLOBAL WORLD BASED ON FREE TRADE,BUT ISN'T THERE A BACKLASHIN THE UNITED STATES AND THE RESTOF THE WESTERN WORLD AGAINSTTHE FREE TRADE GLOBAL ORDER THAT LEFTSO MANY PEOPLE OUT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

TRUMP IS NOT THE LEADRISK HERE.

TRUMP IS THE LEAD SYMPTOMOF SOMETHING THAT HASBEEN COMING FOR DECADES, WALTER.

IMEAN, THE FACT IS THATTHE AVERAGE --DEMOCRAT, REPUBLICAN ORLEANS EITHER WAY --DOESN'T BELIEVE THAT THE WORLDLEANS THEIR WAY OR BECAUSE OF THEFIGHTING ALL OVER THEWORLD BENEFITS THEM AND THAT THE UNITEDSTATES IS A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACYAND CERTAINLY IS NOT INTERESTED INEXPORTING THE MODELALL OVER THE WORLD.

SO, YES, IT ISABSOLUTELY TRUETHAT THE AMERICANS DON'T SUPPORT THESETHINGS.

AND ITIS ALSO TRUE THAT TRUMP HAS INCREASINGLYALOT OF LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE AMONG ALLIESAND SOME OF WHOM WHO HAVE ELECTEDTHEIROWN ANTI-ESTABLISHMENT FOLKS INTOOFFICE,AND THINK ABOUTJAVIER MILLAYIN ARGENTINA AND THOSE IN SALVADOR,AND EVEN IN ITALY AND COUNTRIES THATREALLY, REALLY OPPOSE WHAT TRUMP ISSTANDINGFOR, AND YOU HAVE LARGE PERCENTAGESOF THE POPULATIONSTHAT ARE SYMPATHETIC, AND ELONMUSK SAYING THAT THEAFD, THE ALTERNATIVESFOR DEUTSCHELAND IS DOING THAT WITHTHE FULL SUPPORT OF TRUMPOR THE KING OF ENGLAND HAS TO STEPIN SOTHAT THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER HASTO STEP DOWN, THATIS A MESSAGE THAT RESONATES WITH MINORITYPARTS OF THOSE POPULATIONS, BUT GROWINGPARTS OFTHE POPULATIONS, WALTER.

>> YOU HAVETALKED ABOUTTHE RISKS OF TRUMP COMINGINTO OFFICE, AND THE DEMOCRATS HAVESAID THAT HE IS A RISKTO DEMOCRACY, ITSELF.

DO YOU BELIEVETHATTHERE IS AN IMMINENT RISK TO DEMOCRACYBECAUSE OFTHE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION?

>> NO.

ITHINK IT ISOVERSTATED.

AND ANYONE WHO HAS WATCHEDTHE WAY THATBIDEN HAS COMPORTED HIMSELFIN ENGAGING WITH TRUMP ASWELL AS HIS ENTIRE ADMINISTRATIONOVER THE LAST TRANSITION PERIODWOULD KNOW THAT THERE IS A LOT OFEXAGGERATION, AND THATTHE DEMOCRATS WERE USING WITH AN IMMINENTCONCERNTHAT DEMOCRACY WAS GOING TO FAIL.

I DON'T BELIEVETHAT TRUMP IS COMMITTED TO RULE OFLAW OR DEMOCRACY,AND IN FACT, I THINK THAT IN MANYWAYSHE FINDSITENIMICAL TO CHECKS AND BALANCES, ANDTHAT IS A SYSTEM THAT THEAMERICAN SYSTEM WOULD ALLOW TRUMPTO DO.

THAT ISTHE JUDICIARYAND LEGISLATURE ISLARGELY ELECTED, AND THE MILITARYIS LARGELY PROFESSIONAL MILITARY.

AND THERE ARE SOMANY RULES IN THE FEDERAL SYSTEM INCLUDINGHOW ELECTIONS ARE RUN ARE NOT RUNAT THE FEDERALSYSTEM AT THE DISCRETION OF THE PRESIDENCY,BUT THEY ARERUN BY LOCAL STATEADMINISTRATIONS, RED AND BLUE, THATARE PRETTY WELLRUN.

SO ALL OF THAT IMPLIES THAT THEUNITED STATES IS NOTAT THE BRINK OF DICTATORSHIP,BUT A TRUMP WHO IS WILLING TO ACTIN AMAXIMALLY TRANSACTIONAL WAY AND FEELSTHAT HISPOLITICAL ADVERSARIES HAVE USEDPARTS OF THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT TOGO AFTER HIM, AND WHETHER IT ISIMPEACHMENTS THAT HE BELIEVES AREINAPPROPRIATE OR EFFORTS TO INVESTIGATEHIM OR PUT HIMIN JAIL OR EVEN NOT GETTING ENOUGHSECRET SERVICE SUPPORT AROUND HIM,AND HE ALMOST WASKILLED BY AN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT,THAT DOES IMPLYTHAT HE IS GOING TO BE MORE WILLINGTHAN ONE WOULD BE COMFORTABLE WITHTO USE THEPOWER MINISTRIES IN THE U. S. , THEFBI, THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE, THEIRS,OTHERS TO GO AFTER HIS ENEMIES.

TOPOLITICIZE THEM, TO WEAPONIZE THEM,BECAUSE HEBELIEVES THEY HAVE BEEN POLITICIZEAND WEAPONIZED AGAINSTHIM, ANDCERTAINLY, KASH PATEL, WHO HAS BEENONE OF THEMOST CONTROVERSIAL APPOINTMENTS ANDHAS HAD A ROUGHRIDE IN HIS PRIVATE MEETINGS WITHTHE REPUBLICAN SENATORS THE, BECAUSE--SENATOR, BECAUSE HE HAS NOT BEENABLE TO ADEQUATELY EXPLAIN HIS VISIONFOR THE DIRECTOR OFTHE FBI, BUT HE IS VERY CLEAR OF HISENEMIESARE, AND HIS LIST OF ENEMIES THATHE WOULD WANTTO GO AFTER IF HE BECAME THE FBI DIRECTOR,AND I BELIEVETHAT HAS THE POTENTIAL TO HAVE ACHILLING EFFECT ON HOW PEOPLE AREWILLINGTO COMFORT THEMSELVES PUBLICLY.

ITHINK THAT WHENYOU ARE SEEING SOMEONELIKE MARK ZUCKERBERG DO A 180IN SO MANY WAYS AFTER TRUMP AND ELONBY CONNECTION WIN, I THINK THAT YOUWILL SEE A LOT MOREOF THAT AMONG POLITICAL ANDECONOMIC ELITES IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> TRUMP HAS A SORT OF VIEW OFTHE WORLD THAT HE CAN GET ALONG WITHPEOPLE, AND SOMEHOWOR ANOTHER EVEN THE STRONGEST,EN NORTHKOREA OR WHATEVER, HE CAN DO THE PERSONALDIPLOMACY, AND DO YOU THINK THAT THEREIS A POSSIBILITY OFTHE NATURAL BREAKTHROUGH OR MORE OFAN ACCORDWITH THE U. S. AND CHINA?

>> WITHTRUMP, NEVER SAY NEVER, BECAUSE THEINVASION STARTED IN 2022 AND BIDENAND PUTINHAVE NOT SPOKEN, AND SO CLEARLY, AWILLINGNESS TO ENGAGE, AND YOU MENTIONEDWITH THE NORTHKOREANS AND WITH IRAN, I THINKTHAT TRUMP WILL PUT MUCHTOUGHER SANCTIONS ON IRAN THAN BIDEN,BUT THERE IS GOING TO BEA WILLINGNESS TO HEAR AN OFFER INTEHRAN THAT IS MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANTTHAN THEJPCOA, AND NEVER SAY NEVER,BUT, WALTER, FOR ALL OF THE CRITICISMOFTRUMP BEING IN PUTIN'S POCKET, THEREALITY OF THEFIRST TERM IS THAT U. S. POLICY TOWARDRUSSIA WAS SIGNIFICANTLY MORE HAWKISHTHANUNDER OBAMA.

IT IS TRUMP WHO GAVETHE UKRAINIANS THE JAVELIN MISSILESAND OBAMA REFUSED, BECAUSE HE THOUGHTTHAT ITWAS TOO MUCH RISK, AND IT WAS TRUMPTHATADDED TO THE SANCTIONS, AND SO THEFACT THAT TRUMP IS WILLING TO TALKDOESNOT MEAN HE WILL GET TO A DEAL.

HE WILL ENGAGEWITH XI JINPING, AND ELONWOULD MEET WITH XI JINPING, AND ITIS NOT THE FIRST TIMEHE HAS MET HIM.

ELON HAS A LOT OFEXPOSURETO CHINA, BUT ULTIMATELY, THE STRONGDESIRE TOCONTAIN CHINA AMONG ALL OF TRUMP'SKEYNATIONAL ADVISERS AND ALL OF THE REPUBLICANSIN CONGRESS MAKE THIS TOO HARD.

THE DEMANDS ON CHINA MAKE THIS TOOHARD.

THE DESIRE OF THE AMERICANS TO USETARIFFS AS A PRINCIPLE ELEMENT OFECONOMIC AND NATIONALSECURITY POLICY MAKE THIS TOO HARD.

SO, WHATI AM SAYING IS THAT THE BET THAT YOUWOULD MAKE THIS YEAR ISTHAT U. S. /CHINARELATIONS GET A LOT WORSE.

>> SO,WE HAVE SEEN, IT SEEMS, ABREAKTHROUGH IN GAZA.

DO YOU THINKTHAT PRESIDENT TRUMPIS POSITIONED TO DO SOMETHING SIGNIFICANTIN THE MIDDLE EAST GIVEN THE WEAKENINGOF IRAN,HIS RELATIONSHIPS WITH THE GULF STATESAND THE CHANGES THAT ARE NOW HAPPENINGWITHISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIANS?

>> LOOK,BEFORE OCTOBER7th, ISRAEL WAS CLEARLY THE DOMINANTMILITARY POWER IN THE REGION, ANDIT TURNS OUT THAT ISRAELIS STILL THE DOMINANT MILITARY POWERIN THEREGION, AND THEY CAN DETERMINE BOTHESCALATION,AND DE-ESCALATION ON THEIR TIMETABLE,AND ACCORDING TO THEIRPREFERENCES, AND THEY ARE THAT DOMINANTIN LARGEPART, BECAUSE THE UNITED STATESPROVIDES AN IMMENSEAMOUNT OF MILITARY AID ANDTECHNOLOGICAL SUPPORT AND OTHERS.

THEY HAVE BUILT OUT AUTONOMOUS TRADE.

AND TRUMP'S BEST CAPABILITIES WITHTHE ISRAELIGOVERNMENT AND THE GULF STATES.

THATIS THE FIRST TRIP AS PRESIDENT THELAST TIME AROUND, AND YOU REMEMBERHE GOES TO ISRAEL AND HEGRABS THE ORB WITH THE SAUDIS ANDTHEGULF STATES, AND THAT IS STILL TRUE.

IT IS ALOT OF ECONOMIC ENGAGEMENT, AND POLITICALSUPPORT FORHIM, AND THEY WERE ALL HAPPY TO SEETRUMP WIN.

HE ISGOING TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE FACTTHATTHE ISRAELIS AND THE GULF STATES AREON TOP RIGHT NOW, AND THATTHE IRANIANS ARE IN SERIOUSTROUBLE, HAVING LOST ALMOST ALL OFTHEIR ALLIES AND ALL OF THE PEOPLETHEY SUPPORT.

LOSING HEZBOLLAH, ANDSIXMONTHS AGO, THEY WERE THE MOST POWERFULNONMILITARY STATE ACTOR IN THE WORLD,AND THEY HAVE BEEN DESTROYED ANDTHE IRANIANS CAN'T GET THEMSUPPORT, BECAUSE THE MAIN ROUTE WASTHEASSAD ROUTE, AND NOW HE IS GONE.

ANDTHAT SURPRISED EVERYBODY.

SO NOW,TRUMP IS IN THE DRIVER'S SEATIN MIDDLE EAST, BUT ONE BIG QUESTIONIS GOING TO BE WHATHE DECIDES TO DO WITH THATPOSITION, VIS-A-VIS, AMERICA'STOP ADVERSARY IRAN.

WILL HE SQUEEZETHEM WITH MORESANCTIONS AND PREVENT THEM FROM EXPORTINGA LOT OF OIL THROUGHTHE UNFLAGGED TANKERS WHICH HE CANDO, AND ITIS GOING TO HURT CHINA OR OTHERS,ORMIGHT HE CONSIDER DIRECT MILITARYSTRIKES EVEN AGAINST THENUCLEAR CAPABILITIES WHICH THE ISRAELIPRIME MINISTERWOULD SORELY LIKE HIM TO DO.

I SUSPECTTHAT IT WILL BE THEFORMER AND NOT THE LATTER AT LEASTIN THEOPENING MONTHS, BECAUSE I DON'T THINKTHAT TRUMP WANTS TO RISK$100-PLUS OIL.

I DON'T THINK THATHE WANTSTO RISK A BROADER WAR THAT HE, YOUKNOW,HE PLAYED A ROLE IN STARTING.

BUTIT ISABSOLUTELY PLAUSIBLE, ESPECIALLY IFTHE IRANIANSDON'T RESPOND WELL TO THE GREATERPRESSURE THEY ARE GOINGTO BE FACING FROM THE U. S. ANDISRAEL.

>> IRAN IS ON THE ROPES ASYOU SAY,AND I THINK THAT SECRETARY OF STATEBLINKEN SAID THEY COULD HAVE A TWO-WEEKBREAKOUT PERIOD BEFORE THEY COULDCREATE MOREENHANCED NUCLEAR ENHANCEDCAPABILITIES.

DO YOU THINK THAT IRANWILL DO THAT NOW THAT THEYARE ON THE ROPES?

>> THERE IS A BIGDIFFERENCE BETWEEN THATAND OPERATIONAL NUCLEAR BOMB.

ALLOF THE EXPERTS SAY ITIS SIX MONTHS MINIMUM TO THAT ANDPROBABLY A YEAR BEFOREYOU COULD ACTUALLY HAVE THAT BOMBWITH SOME FORM OF DELIVERY SYSTEMATTACHED TO IT.

THE PERIOD IN WHICHTHEY WOULDBE MAKING AN EFFORT TOWARDSTHAT BREAKOUT WOULD BE VERY CLEARBOTHTO THE INTERNATIONAL INSPECTORS ANDOF COURSE TO THE PEOPLE WHOCOULD STOP THEM.

SO I THINK THATTHE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT WOULD BE VERY,VERYHARD PRESSED TO TAKE ON THAT KINDOF A DIRECT RISK TO THEIR OWNREGIME, BECAUSE IF ANYTHING WERE GOINGTO INCENTIVIZE THE ISRAELIS AND THEAMERICANS TO TRYAND TAKE THE REGIME OUT, IT WOULDBE THAT BEHAVIOR.

>> WHAT ABOUT UKRAINE?

DO YOU THINKTHAT NOW THATTHERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A SETTLEMENTOR CEASE-FIRE IN PLACE, OR IS THERESOME OTHERWAY THAT THIS CAN BE RESOLVED?

>>I THINK THATA CEASE-FIRE IS VERY LIKELY.

TRUMPIS CERTAINLY VERY STRONGLY WANTINGONE.

ANDTHE EUROPEAN ALLIES IN NATO WANTTO RECOGNIZE WHERE WE NEED TO GO,BECAUSE THE UKRAINIANS DON'THAVE THE CAPACITY TO CONTINUE TO FIGHTAND TOCONTINUE TO RAISE THE YOUNG MEN THATTHEYHAVE OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST THREEYEARS, AND BY THEWAY, NOT SO YOUNG MEN INUKRAINE DOING A LOT OF THE FIGHTINGRIGHT NOW.

SO, YEAH, THEREIS A PUSH, BUT IT IS A LOT EASIERTO GETTHE UKRAINIANS TO NEGOTIATE RIGHTNOW THANTHE RUSSIANS.

I THOUGHT THAT ONE OFTRUMP'S POSTS IN THEPAST FEW WEEKS WASVERY INTERESTING WHEN HE SAID THATMAYBE THE CHINESECAN HELP.

HE UNDERSTANDS THAT HE DOESNOT HAVETHE PERSONAL LEVERAGE ON PUTIN THATTHE CHINESE DO.

AND THEIDEA THAT TRUMP IS GOING TO BE INPUTIN'S POCKETIS, I THINK, AMYTH PERPETUATED BY HIS OPPONENTS.

HE DOES WANTTO END THE WAR, AND THE WILLINGNESSTO END THE WARWILL INCLUDE UKRAINE RECOGNIZING THATTHEY ARE NOT GOING TOGET A SIGNIFICANT COMPONENT OF THELAND THATRUSSIA OCCUPIES BACK.

THEY ARE GOINGTO BEDEFACTOR PARTITIONED, BUT RUSSIA ISGOING TO HAVE TOACCEPT CONTINUED SECURITY GUARANTEESFOR UKRAINE.

THEYARE GOING TO HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT THEREST OFUKRAINE IS SOVEREIGN ANDIS ALIGNED BY AND ARMED BY THE WEST.

THAT IS NOT GOING TOBE EASY FOR PUTIN TO ACCEPT.

A TEMPORARY CEASE-FIRE, SURE.

WE HAVE42 DAYS CEASE-FIRE WITH GAZA, BUTISTHAT REALLY GOING TO END THE FIGHTINGLONG-TERMOR REALLY END THE PROXY WAR THAT RUSSIAISNOW FIGHTING ESSENTIALLY WITH NATO?

AND THERE THE ANSWER IS NO, BECAUSEIT ISA MUCH LONGER TERM CONCERN.

>> YOUSAY THAT MAYBE CHINA CANHELP WITH THE UKRAINE SITUATION, ANDIS THAT A GOOD THING THAT WE WANTCHINATO HELP.

IN UKRAINE OR IN THE MIDDLEEAST?

>> WE DON'T WANT CHINA TO BE PUSHEDINTOTHE CORNER TO FEEL LIKE THEY HAVETO BE ALLIED WITH THE WORST ACTORSIN THEWORLD, RUSSIA,CHINA AND THE ALLIES IN THE EAST.

THEYHAVE ENGAGEDIN DUAL-DUAL-TECHNOLOGY EXPORTS.

THEY HAVE ENGAGED ON THE WORLD STAGE,AND THEY WANT AN END TO THE WAR, ANDTHEY WANT BETTERTRADE RELATIONS TO THE PARTNERS INCLUDINGTHE EUROPEANSWHO ARE WILLING TO DECOUPLE FROM THEM,AND THEY ARE THEFRONT LINES WHO NEED THE CAPITAL THEMOST, LIKE THE POLISH ANDTHE ROMANIAN, BUTBECAUSE THE CHINESE HAVE BEENSUPPORTIVE IN THE UKRAINIAN WAR.

SOI BELIEVETHAT TRUMP IS CORRECT TO SAY, WE SHOULDBE LOOKING TO ENGAGEWITH THE CHINESE TOPUSH THEM TO STABILITY.

>> YOU PUTOUT THE GLOBALRISK SUCH PORT THIS TIME OF YEAR,AND LET MEASK YOU THEMORE BRIGHT SPOT HERE.

WHAT IS THEGLOBALOPPORTUNITY THAT YOU FIND SURPRISINGTO YOU?

>> ONE, TRUMP IS GOING TOBE GETTING A LOT OF WIN, BECAUSE HEIS ACTUALLYVERY POWERFUL BOTH DOMESTICALLY ANDGLOBALLY AND THISIS GOING TO ADDRESS SOME ISSUES THATNEED TO BE ADDRESSEDFOR EXAMPLE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION INTHE UNITED STATES.

IT ISBROKEN, AND IT WILL BE LESS BROKEN.

YOU MAY NOT AGREE ONEVERY TOOL HE IS USING TO ADDRESSIT, BUTEVERYONE AGREES IT IS BROKE EPPTHAT.

--BROKEN.

THAT IS ONE OF THEREASONS THAT HE WAS ELECTED.

AND WALTER, WHEN I LOOK AT WHAT YOUDOWITH THE AI AND LOOKING AT SCALE FROMWHAT WEARE GETTING FROM NEW ENERGY AND INFRASTRUCTUREAND WHETHER ITIS ELECTRIC VEHICLES OR SOLAR OR WIND,ALL OFTHAT TO ME AT A GLOBAL LEVELIS VERY, VERY EXCITING FOR OUR KIDSAND FOROUR GRANDCHILDREN.

SO IT IS STILLTHE MOST EXTRAORDINARYTIME TO BE HERE AND IT IS JUST THATTHERE IS A LOT OFCHINA THAT IS GOING TO BE BROKEN LITERALLYAND FIGURATIVELY AS WE ARE MAKINGOUR WAY THROUGHIT.

>> IAN BREMMER, AS ALWAYS, THANKYOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKYOU, WALTER.

> >> AND FINALLY,THE WINTER BLEWS MAY BLEW--BLUES MAY BE SETTLING IN,BUT NOT IN AMSTERDAM.

THAT IS WHERE THE DUTCHTULIP GROWERS WEREGIVING AWAY 2,000 OF THESEBEAUTIFUL BLOOMS TOMARK THE START OF THE SEASON.

ANDFROM FLORA TOFAUNA, OVER THE WEEKEND IN VATICANCITY, IT WAS NOTJUST HOME TO THE POPE, BUT ALSO TOHORSES,COWS AND GEESE ALL HOPING TO RECEIVEA BLESSINGFROM THE CARDINAL INANNUAL EVENT HONORING ST. ANTHONYABBOTT, THE PATRON SAINT OF ANIMALS.

IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS COMINGON, SIGNUP FOR OUR NEWS LETTER ATPBS.

ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANK YOU FOR WATCHING"AMANPOUR &COMPANY. "

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROWNIGHT.