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>>> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
>> TODAY I WILL SIGN A SERIES OF HISTORIC EXECUTIVE ORDERS.
WITH THESE ACTIONS WE WILL BEGIN THE COMPLETE RESTORATION OF AMERICA.
>> DAY ONE OF TRUMP 2.0.
WE BREAKDOWN THE FLURRY OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS AND THE CHALLENGES THEY COULD FACE.
>>> AND, TEARS OF SHOCK ON THE U.S. AND MEXICO BORDER AS TRUMP CRACKS DOWN ON EMIGRATION.
WE TALKED WITH A RIGHTS ADVOCATE WHO ALSO FOUND REFUGE IN ARIZONA AS AN UNDOCUMENTED CHILD.
>> HUMANITY OR LOVE.
>> A WINDOW INTO GAZA.
AS THE CEASE-FIRE HOLDS, FAMILIES RETURN TO THE RUBBLE MY CONVERSATION REGARDING THE GRIM REALITY INSIDE THE ON CLUB.
--ENCLAVE.
>>> I WANT AN AMERICA THAT GIVES EVERYBODY A CHANCE TO GET AHEAD AND I THINK THAT TRUMP AND SOME OF THE OLIGARCHS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.
>> THE DEMOCRATIC SENATOR FOR OREGON, RON WHITE TALKS TO WALTER ISAACSON ABOUT TRUMP, TIKTOK, AND POLICY.
>>> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD, LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ, AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> A WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
I AM SETTING --SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
WE ARE JUST TWO DAYS INTO THE THE SECOND TOUR OF DONALD TRUMP TARGETING EVERYTHING FROM CLIMATE, DIVERSITY, QUALITY, AND INCLUSION PROGRAMS TO UNITED STATES IS PULLING OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORDS AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION AND A NATIONAL EMERGENCY -- ENERGY EMERGENCY HAS BEEN DECLARED.
SOME OF THESE ACTIONS ARE FACING LEGAL ACTIONS.
TRUMP HAS ISSUED PARDONS FOR MORE THAN 1000 PEOPLE CHARGED AND CONVICTED IN THE CAPITAL RIOTS INCLUDING THOSE THAT ASSAULTED POLICE AND DESTROYED PROPERTY.
>> THIS IS JANUARY 6 AND THESE ARE THE HOSTAGES.
APPROXIMATELY 1500 WERE PARDONED.
FULL PARDON.
FULL PARDON.
WE HAVE ABOUT SIX COMMUTATIONS IN THERE WHERE WE ARE DOING FURTHER RESEARCH.
THEY WILL GO THAT WAY OR THEY WILL GO TO [ INAUDIBLE ].
14 FAR RIGHT EXTREMISTS FROM THE PROUD BOYS AND OATH KEEPERS THAT WERE CHARGED WITH OR CONVICTED OF SHOULD THIS IS CONSPIRACY FOR TRYING TO DISRUPT THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER TO JOE BIDEN FOUR YEARS AGO.
JANUARY 6 CRACK DOWNS WERE TWO KEY ELECTION PROMISES.
NOW WE DIG INTO THE CONSEQUENCES FOR THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM.
FIRST WE GO TO KEVIN IN WASHINGTON, D.C.
HE JOINS US NOW FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.
A COUPLE OF BUSY DAYS IT HAS BEEN.
WE TALKED ABOUT TRUMP SIGNING A BARRAGE OF ORDERS.
CERTAINLY IT WAS A POWER FLEX, PERFORMATIVE, AND THEY SHOT SHARP REVERSAL.
I WANT TO ASK FOR OUR AUDIENCES, CAN YOU JUST LAY OUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS?
HOW DO THEY WORK AND GIVEN THIS IS SUCH A BROAD SWEEP, WHAT IS TRUMP REALLY SAYING?
>> Reporter: IT WAS A HUGE SWATH OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS THAT RANGED FROM SYMBOLIC LIKE RENAMING THE GULF OF MEXICO AND RENAMING MOUNT DID NOT LEAD TO THE HIGHLY CONSEQUENTIAL.
EVERY PRESIDENT USES ELECTED AUTHORITY TO TRY TO PUT FORWARD HIS AGENDA BUT WHAT WE REALLY SAW ON MONDAY IN THE OVAL OFFICE WAS A PRESIDENT WHO IS VERY WILLING TO TEST THE BOUNDS OF HIS PRESIDENTIAL PREROGATIVE.
TO SEE HOW FAR EXACTLY HE CAN GO WITH HIS OWN PEN, BYPASSING CONGRESS, TO FULFILL SOME OF THE PROMISES THAT HE MADE AS A CANDIDATE.
AND CERTAINLY SOME OF THESE ACTIONS, PARTICULARLY WHEN IT COMES TO IMMIGRATION, WILL BE CHALLENGED IN THE COURT BUT WHEN YOU TALK TO TRUMP'S ADVISORS THEY DESCRIBED THIS AS A SHOCK AND AWE MOMENT.
THEY WANT TO DEMONSTRATE THEY HAVE THE COMPETENCE AND THE CONFIDENCE TO ENACT SOME OF WHETHER OR NOT THESE ARE THE POLICIES THAT REMAIN IN PLACE OVER THE NEXT FOUR YEARS WILL BE UP TO JUDGES END UP TO THE SUPREME COURT, POTENTIALLY, IF SOME OF THESE ACTIONS MAKE IT TO THE HIGHEST COURT IN THE LAND.
WE ARE SEEING A PRESIDENT WHO FEELS EMPOWERED BY A MANDATE DESPITE WINNING THE POPULAR VOTE BY QUITE A NARROW MARGIN TO FULFILL SOME OF THE CORE PROMISES THAT HE MADE AS A CANDIDATE.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAW HIM DO IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
IT WAS NOTABLE THAT THE EXECUTIVE ACTIONS WERE WRITTEN, PREPARED, AND READY TO GO FROM THE MOMENT HE WAS SWORN IN AT THE CAPITAL.
I THINK IT REALLY DOES SET THE TONE GOING FORWARD OF A PRESIDENT WHO IS WILLING TO TEST HOW FAR HE CAN REALLY GO NOW THAT HE IS ENTERING THIS NEW ERA.
>> MODERATION DOES NOT SEEM A KEYWORD FOR NOW.
WHAT WE GET FROM FIRST THE TRUMP TRANSITION AND NOW THE PROMISES MADE, PROMISES KEPT.
IN TERMS OF THE ONES THAT WILL ACTUALLY HAVE POLICY IMPLICATIONS, WHICH ONES DO YOU THINK WILL IMPACT AMERICANS RIGHT NOW?
>> Reporter: SOME OF THE IMMIGRATION ORDERS ARE HAVING AN EFFECT AT THE SOUTHERN BORDER FOR EXAMPLE, THE PRESIDENT SHUT DOWN AN APP THAT WAS INSTITUTED DURING THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THAT ALLOWED PEOPLE WAITING FOR ASYLUM IN THE UNITED STATES TO MAKE APPOINTMENTS.
30,000 PEOPLE HAD REGISTERED FOR APPOINTMENTS AND THAT APP HAS GONE DARK LEAVING SOME PEOPLE IN A HIGH DEGREE OF UNCERTAINTY.
THE OTHER AREA THAT THE PRESIDENT DOES HAVE A BROAD AUTHORITY IS TRYING TO RESHAPE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THROUGH POLICY AND PERSONNEL.
YOU SAW THE PRESIDENT SIGNED A HIRING FREEZE.
THOSE ARE ITEMS THAT CAN HAVE AN IMMEDIATE EFFECT.
YOU ALSO SAW THE PRESIDENT RESCIND EXECUTIVE ORDERS INCLUDING ONES THAT WERE JUST SIGNED WITHIN THE LAST MONTH.
PRESIDENT BIDEN TOOK CUBA OFF THE LIST OF STATE SPONSORED TARIFFS.
YOU SAW THE PRESIDENT WITHDRAW FROM THE PARIS CLIMATE AGREEMENT AND THE WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION.
SOME REALLY DO WORRIED THIS COULD HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON PUBLIC HEALTH AND THESE ARE AREAS WHERE THE PRESIDENT DOES HAVE A RELATIVELY WIDE DEGREE OF AUTHORITY AND, THEN OF COURSE, THERE ARE PARDONS.
THAT IS THE ULTIMATE PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY.
HE IS ALLOWED TO DO WHAT HE WANTS TO DO WITHOUT CHALLENGE, WITHOUT LEGAL CHALLENGE IN THE COURT.
THE PRESIDENT SHOWED HIMSELF VERY WILLING TO TAKE THAT TO QUITE AN EXTREME LEVEL YESTERDAY.
>> THE PARDONS SHOCKED EVEN REPUBLICANS WHO BELIEVE THAT ANYBODY THAT COMMITTED A VIOLENT OFFENSE WOULD NOT BE PARDONED.
THIS FOR A LONG TIME.
WHEN IT COMES TO PARDON AUTHORITY, AS SOME SUPPORTERS OF THE PRESIDENT SAID IT WAS JOE BIDEN ON THE WAY OUT WHO PARDONED HIS ENTIRE FAMILY AND HE SET THE PRECEDENT.
>> Reporter: THE DAY BEGAN WITH PARDONS FROM JOE BIDEN AND FOR MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE THAT INVESTIGATED THE RIOTS ON JANUARY 6 AND IT ENDED WITH TRUMP OFFERING PARDONS FOR THE WRITERS THEMSELVES.
YOU SAW THOSE BOOKENDS THERE BUT CERTAINLY, THE TRUMP PARDONS SORT OF TEST THE WILLINGNESS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO GO ALONG WITH WHAT HE IS DOING IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
THE PARDONS APPLY NOT ONLY TO THOSE WHO ARE ACCUSED OF LOW- LEVEL OFFENSES BUT ALSO THOSE ACCUSED OF VIOLENCE ON JANUARY 6 TO THOSE CONVICTED OF SEDITIOUS CONSPIRACY OF TRYING TO USE VIOLENCE TO OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT.
I THINK YOU WILL HEAR REPUBLICANS BEING QUESTIONED ABOUT THIS STEP THAT THE PRESIDENT TOOK BUT, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE POWERS OF THE PRESIDENCY.
IT IS UNCHALLENGED IN THE CONSTITUTION SO PRESIDENT TRUMP DOES HAVE THE CIVILITY TO TAKE THIS STEP.
IT CROSSES OUT WHAT WAS A COMPLEX INVESTIGATION IN THE HISTORY OF THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
I THINK WHAT RAISES A LOT OF QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW WILLING PRESIDENT TRUMP WILL BE TO GO FURTHER DOWN THE LINE AS HE FACES REQUESTS FOR PARDONS FROM HIS ALLIES, FROM PEOPLE WILL -- YOU ARE DEFENDING HIM IN THE PUBLIC, POTENTIALLY IN A CRIMINAL WAY, HE HAS SET A PRECEDENT THAT HE IS WILLING TO ERASE SOME CONVICTIONS AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL BE A SEAM GOING FORWARD.
>> YOU SAID, THAT REALLY DOES SET A TONE GOING FORWARD FOR THE SECOND TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
D.C., WE APPRECIATE IT.
>>> WE WERE JUST DISCUSSING THE TRUMP CRACKDOWN ON IMMIGRATION.
HE IS HOLDING TRUE TO CAMPAIGN PROMISES.
THIS IS THE IMPACT.
DEVASTATED PEOPLE AT THE US- MEXICO BORDER FINDING THAT THEIR APPOINTMENTS TO SEEK ASYLUM CANCELED.
THE APP SHUT DOWN AND IT WAS THE ONLY LEGAL PATHWAY TO ENTER THE UNITED STATES.
THE PRESIDENT IS DECLARING THE BORDER A NATIONAL EMERGENCY -- EMERGENCY IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE FUNDS TO CONSTRUCT THE WALL.
HE IS ENDING BIRTHRIGHT CITIZENSHIP AND IT DOES NOT END THERE.
THE NEW BORDERS ARE HAS PROMISED MAJOR RATES TO DEPORT AND DETAIN IMMIGRANTS AND NOT JUST THOSE WITH CRIMINAL CONVICTIONS.
SO, UNDOCUMENTED AND THE AMERICAN IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY?
WE HAVE AN IMMIGRANT ADVOCATE HERE AND ANDREA MARTINEZ IS AN IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY.
I WANT TO WELCOME BOTH OF YOU TO THE PROGRAM.
DEPORTATIONS, WE HEARD SO MUCH OF THIS DURING THE CAMPAIGN.
ERICA, RAIDS COULD BEGIN IN PLACES LIKE CHICAGO.
HOW ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE UNDOCUMENTED AT THIS HOUR, IN THIS COUNTRY, HOW ARE THEY FEELING ABOUT WHAT THEY MIGHT FACE?
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING MADE.
I CAN TELL YOU FROM THE PEOPLE THAT I KNOW, THAT ARE MESSAGING ME ON SOCIAL MEDIA, FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS, THEY ARE AFRAID AND WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE FEAR BECAUSE THEY HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG OR A CRIME BUT BECAUSE THEY ARE HERE UNDOCUMENTED.
LIKE MY FAMILY THAT HAS BEEN HERE OVER 26 YEARS WHO HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DO EVERYTHING THEY CAN TO GIVE BACK TO THIS COUNTRY AND NOW THEY FEAR BEING SEPARATED FROM FAMILIES AND KNOWING THAT CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE CITIZENS OF THE COUNTRY.
OR WHAT COUNTRY THEY WILL BE CITIZENS OF, REALLY.
>> ERIKA, TOM HOLMAN SAID AT FIRST IN HIS CAMPAIGN WE HEARD IT WOULD BE PEOPLE WITH RECORDS BUT IF YOU HAPPEN TO BE SOMEBODY THAT COMMITTED A CRIME AND ENTERED THE COUNTRY LEGALLY YOU COULD EXPECT TO BE DEPORTED.
WHAT KIND OF OF PEOPLE -- UPHEAVAL, THAT CAUSE?
>> I HAVE HEARD -- I HAVE TOLD PEOPLE OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT THEY ARE ONLY GOING AFTER THE CRIMINALS AND THAT IS WHAT WAS SOLD TO PEOPLE UNDER THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.
UNFORTUNATELY, THE REALITY IS THAT DHS HAS CALLED ON PEOPLE, WHEN THEY SHOW UP TO A RAID OR TO GET PEOPLE DETAINED OR DEPORTED TO SAY THAT ANYONE REALLY, ANYONE WILL BE DETAINED.
THEY HAVE IN THE PAST, MY OWN FAMILY HAS BEEN RATED IN THE PAST.
MY BROTHER AND --WERE TAKEN BY IMMIGRATION 14 YEARS AGO.
THEY HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.
BUT, BECAUSE THEY WERE THERE AND I.C.E.
HAVE THEM, THEY WERE GOING TO BE DEPORTED.
I WAS ABLE TO SAVE MY MOM FROM DEPORTATION BY TELLING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO SHE WAS.
BUT, WE ARE STILL STRUGGLING.
I AM TRAUMATIZED BY THAT DAY AND I ASSURE YOU MANY PEOPLE IN UNDOCUMENTED BUT AMERICAN CITIZENS WILL BE TRAUMATIZED BY THE AMOUNT OF RAIDS AND EVERYTHING THAT THEY WILL BE DOING TO OUR PEOPLE.
>> AND IN THESE FAMILIES THERE IS A MIX IN TERMS OF STATUS.
BEFORE I GET TO QUESTIONS I WANT YOU TO LISTEN TO I.C.E.
FORMER DIRECTOR ABOUT WHAT HE SAYS WILL BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME WITH TRUMP IN OFFICE.
>> THEY ARE LENDING --LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR THIS MESS DEPORTATION INCLUDING INTERNMENT CAMPS WHICH IS A MAJOR ISSUE THEY WOULD FACE IF THE CARRIED OUT THE DEPORTATION EFFORT.
>> IS SOMEBODY THAT WORKS CLOSELY WITH THE IMMIGRANT COMMUNITY, WHAT WOULD THIS LOOK LIKE?
>> RIGHT NOW THERE IS VERY LIMITED DEAD SPACE IN TERMS OF WHO THE ADMINISTRATION CAN DETAINED BUT WITH THOSE CAMS MORE PEOPLE CAN BE DETAINED AND THE QUESTION IS, AT WHAT COST?
WE HAVE SEEN STUDIES WE HAVE SEEN THROUGH THE AMERICAN IMMIGRATION LOWER LAWYERS ASSOCIATION SHOWING IT COULD COST THE AMERICAN TAXPAYER UP $1 TRILLION.
WITH THE DOYLE PRIORITIES MEMO BEING WITHDRAWN AND THE PRIORITIES NOW BEING EVERYONE INSTEAD OF PEOPLE WITH CRIMINAL HISTORY, BECAUSE UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, THE PRESIDENT HAS THE ABILITY TO DETERMINE WHO IS THE PRIORITY TO DEPORT.
THEY DETERMINE NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT, TERRORIST THREATS, THOSE PEOPLE WOULD BE THE PRIORITY FOR DEPORTATION BUT NOW, TRUMP HAS CHOSEN TO WITHDRAW THE PRIORITIES MEMO AND NOW EVERYONE IS A PRIORITIES SO MIXED STATUS FAMILIES, THERE COULD BE UNDOCUMENTED FAMILY MEMBERS THAT ARE PICKED UP AND DETAINED TAXPAYER EXPENSE, EVEN IF THEY HAVE NO CRIMINAL HISTORY, THE QUESTION IS, NOT ONLY THE INCREDIBLE TRAUMA TO U.S. CITIZENS AND FAMILY MEMBERS BUT ALSO TO THE TAX PLATE PAYER WHO VOTED.
THEY WANTED A SMALLER GOVERNMENT AND THEY WANTED TO NOT SPEND TAXPAYER MONEY.
THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF THE GOVERNMENT.
>> MANY AMERICANS MADE THEIR WISHES KNOWN DURING THE ELECTION.
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT THEY SIGNED UP FOR?
THE PEOPLE THAT YOU TALK TO, DID THEY SIGN UP FOR MESS DEPORTATION TO THE POINT THAT IT WILL DISRUPT FAMILIES AND THE ECONOMY?
>> I AM IN KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI AND THAT IS WHERE MY PRACTICE IS.
WE HAVE A PURPLE CITY AND A RED STATE.
MANY OF MY FRIENDS VOTED THE WAY THAT THEY VOTED BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY.
THEY THOUGHT DONALD TRUMP WOULD BE BETTER FOR THE ECONOMY, BUT FOR.
PEOPLE HAVE STATED OVERWHELMINGLY THAT THEY DO NOT ADHERE TO OR SUPPORT MASS DEPORTATIONS.
THIS IS NOT WHAT THEY SIGNED UP FOR AND THIS TYPE OF PAIN IS NOT WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT.
>> ERIKA YOU GAVE US INSIGHT TO YOUR PERSONAL STORY AND IT TRAUMATIZES YOU AND YOUR FAMILY.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM YOUR COMMUNITY ABOUT THE ACTIONS BEING TAKEN TO TRY AND STAY OUT OF IMMIGRATION DETENTION?
>> PEOPLE ARE SURELY AFRAID.
I WAS MENTIONING AND YOU WERE MENTIONING, WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE ROOTS IN THIS COUNTRY.
ONE EXAMPLE I WAS GIVING YOU, MY OWN FAMILY.
MY MOTHER IS IN DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS AND SHE HAS BEEN 13 YEARS.
SHE IS A 66-YEAR-OLD GREAT- GRANDMOTHER GRANDDAUGHTER WHO IS A THIRD- GENERATION AMERICAN IN THE COUNTRY.
THIS IS, IT IS JUST A REPRESENTATION, REALLY, OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY THAT ARE MIXED STATUS FAMILIES WHO ARE NOW REALLY NOT KNOWING WHAT TO EXPECT.
THEY ARE IN THEIR OWN HOME AND THEY MAY GET A KNOCK FROM I.C.E.
AT THE DOOR.
IT IS NOT JUST SCARY.
IT IS UNCERTAINTY ABOUT WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR FUTURE AND THAT IS EFFECT THING A LOT OF PEOPLE AND THEIR MENTAL HEALTH AND WELL-BEING.
>> SOMETIMES NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY THERE IS NO LEGAL PATH PRESENTED TO YOU.
AS YOU SAID, DEPORTATION PROCEEDINGS.
NOW, AFTER THE ELECTION, WALTER ISAACSON --WE SAT DOWN WITH TRUMP.
>> IS IT FAIR TO DEPORT EVERYONE?
>> WE START WITH THE CRIMINALS AND THEN WE ARE STARTING WITH OTHERS AND WE ARE GOING TO SEE HOW IT GOES.
WHEN SOMEBODY COMES HERE ILLEGALLY, THEY ARE GOING OUT.
WHEN THEY COME HERE ILLEGALLY, THEY ARE GOING OUT.
IF THEY COME HERE ILLEGALLY BUT THEIR FAMILY IS HERE LEGALLY, THE FAMILY HAS A CHOICE.
THE PERSON THAT CAME IN LEGALLY --ILLEGALLY CAN GO OUT OR THEY CAN ALL GO OUT TOGETHER.
>> WHAT KIND OF A CHOICES THAT?
SOME ARE SAYING IS IT BETTER THAT WE SELF DEPORT AT THIS TIME SO WE CAN REENTER THE UNITED STATES OR ARE THOSE ELECTING TO GO INTO HIDING?
>> THERE IS NO OPTION TO REENTER THE UNITED STATES SO THE OPTION IS TO GO INTO HIDING, WHICH IS WHAT MANY OF MY ARE PLACED IN THE IMMIGRATION SYSTEM THE BACKLOG IS SO LONG, I HAVE TRIAL DATES SET OUT FOR 2027 AND 2028 SO GETTING A FINAL HEARING FOR THOSE THAT NEED THEIR ASYLUM APPLICATION ADJUDICATED, IT IS VERY DIFFICULT AND THAT IS WHAT I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND ABOUT THE MASS DEPORTATION EFFORT.
OUR SYSTEM IS SO BACKLOGGED THAT TO TRY TO DEPORT EVERYONE WILL CREATE AN EVEN GREATER BACKLOG BECAUSE THERE SHOULD BE RIGHTS FOR EVERY IMMIGRANT IN THE COUNTRY.
THERE WILL BE LEGAL CHALLENGES BECAUSE, I EXPECT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO DEPORT U.S. CITIZENS WITH NONCITIZEN FAMILY MEMBERS AND WE WILL SEE A LOT OF LITIGATION OVER EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE EXECUTIVE ORDERS.
>> IF YOU HAVE A FAMILY YOU MAY HAVE TWO UNDOCUMENTED PARENTS WHO ARE THE LEGAL GUARDIANS OF LET'S SAY TWO OR THREE OR FOUR AMERICAN CHILDREN.
ADD TO THAT THE FACT THAT THE CHILD SEPARATION TASK FORCE, THAT HAS NOW BEEN DISBANDED BY TRUMP.
DO YOU BELIEVE, HARI, THERE WILL BE MORE FAMILIES SEPARATED?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
THAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THERE WILL BE FAMILY SEPARATION.
I DON'T THINK THE PRESIDENT CARES.
I DON'T THINK THE ADMINISTRATION CARES.
I THINK THEY WANT TO GET AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND THAT IS NOT GOING TO HELP ANYONE.
THEY KEEP SAYING IT WILL HELP THE ECONOMY BUT THAT IS NOT REAL.
THE LABOR OF IMMIGRANTS IS VERY VALUABLE FOR THIS COUNTRY.
FAMILY SEPARATION IS A FORM OF TRAUMA.
YOU KNOW, TELLING AMERICAN CITIZENS IN THIS COUNTRY, THAT THE FAMILY DOES NOT MATTER.
THEY CAN BE SEPARATED FROM THEIR PARENTS, THE PEOPLE THAT THEY LOVE, AND IT DOES NOT MATTER I WILL SAY, AND THE LAST THING I WILL SAY, I KNOW ABOUT FAMILY SEPARATION.
MY FAMILY LEFT MEXICO BECAUSE WE WERE VICTIMS OF DOMESTIC VIOLENCE AND WE HAD NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO LEAVE AND COME TO THIS COUNTRY AND WE DID NOT SEE OUR GRANDMOTHER FOR MANY YEARS AND OUR GRANDMOTHER PASSED AWAY IN MEXICO AND WE NEVER SAW HER AGAIN.
I DID NOT SEE MY GRANDMOTHER FOR THE LAST 10 YEARS OF HER LIFE AND IT IS A CHOICE, IT SHOULD NOT BE A CHOICE FOR ANYONE.
>> IT IS TRAUMATIC FOR YOU AND FOR OTHER FAMILIES THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS AGAIN.
WHO WILL HAVE TO LEAVE THEIR FAMILIES.
I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE STILL TRYING TO GET INTO THE UNITED STATES.
ANDREA, TRUMP SIGNED AN ORDER THAT GIVES THE MILITARY A ROLE IN IMMIGRATION ENFORCEMENT.
WE SAW THE BORDER YESTERDAY AND I AM ASSIGNED I AM SURE IT IS GOING ON.
RIGHT NOW THERE IS NO LEGAL PATHWAY TO ENTRY AND TRUMP HAS SUSPENDED THIS REFUGEE SETTLEMENT.
WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE WILL HAPPEN NOW BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING, IF YOU ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE PEOPLE A LEGAL WAY TO ENTER THE COUNTRY, THEY WILL CONTINUE TO TRY TO ENTER ILLEGALLY.
WHAT DO YOU SEE HAPPENING?
>> THERE IS A PUSH FACTOR AND A PULL FACTOR FOR IMMIGRATION.
PEOPLE ARE PUSHED OUT BECAUSE OF PERSECUTION.
THEY HAVE TO LEAVE THE COUNTRY AND THERE IS WE HAVE A LOW UNEMPLOYMENT RATE AND WE NEED WORKERS SO, THERE IS THIS DOUBLE WHAMMY.
PEOPLE WILL COME IN MORE DANGEROUS WAYS AND THEY MADE GUY TRYING.
WITH THE APPOINTMENTS THAT WERE CANCELED YESTERDAY AFTERNOON, PEOPLE WAITED 6-10 MONTHS FOR THOSE APPOINTMENTS AND THAT WAS THEIR WAY OF ASKING FOR ASSIGNMENT AND TO BE PAROLED IN THE UNITED STATES.
THOSE APPOINTMENTS WERE MADE IN THE MORNING AND THEY RISK KIDNAPPING TO GO TO THOSE INTERVIEWS ONLY TO FIND OUT THEIR INTERVIEWS HAD BEEN CANCELED.
PEOPLE WILL CONTINUE TO COME TO THE UNITED STATES AND IF THEY ARE NOT GIVEN A LEGAL PATH TO DO SO THEY WILL DO SO IN A DANGEROUS WAY AND AT HIGHER THE FACT THAT THEY SIMPLY CANNOT LIVE IN THEIR COUNTRIES.
THEY WILL NOT LEAVE THEIR HOME AND LESS THEIR HOME IS THE MOUTH OF A SHARK.
>> THEY ARE GOING THROUGH A TOUGH TIME WITH THE BORDER CROSSINGS.
ANDREA, WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE AMERICANS WHO VOTED FOR DONALD TRUMP AND WANTED TO SEE MORE NATIONAL SECURITY AROUND IMMIGRATION --WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM?
>> THIS IS NOT THE WAY THAT YOU DO IT.
IF WE DEPORT PEOPLE WHO ARE IN THIS COUNTRY, LIKE MY FAMILY, THEY WILL HAVE A BETTER LIFE BUT THAT WILL NOT BE THE CASE.
LIFE WILL NOT BE BETTER BY DEPORTING PEOPLE.
IT WILL BE BY HAVING A BETTER GOVERNMENT THAT CARES ABOUT THEIR WORKING-CLASS AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL.
I HOPE THEY SEE THAT AS TRUMP MOVES FORWARD WITH HIS PLAN, I HOPE THEY SEE THE REALITY OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN WITH PEOPLE LIKE MYSELF AND OTHERS.
>> ERIKA ANDIOLA, THANK YOU FOR SHARING YOUR STORY AND ANDREA MARTINEZ, WE WILL CONTINUE TO CHECK IN WITH YOU AS THEY IMMIGRATION PICTURE CONTINUES TO CHANGE.
>>> WE RETURN NOW TO GAZA WHERE THE CEASE-FIRE IS HOLDING.
FAMILIES OF ISRAELI PEOPLE RELEASED REJOICE.
BUT PEOPLE ARE RETURNING TO THE RUINS OF THEIR LIVES.
THESE IMAGES SHOW THE EXTENT OF THE DEVASTATION.
90% OF THE POPULATION HAS BEEN FORCIBLY DISPLACED AND THE MAJORITY OF HOMES IN THE STRIP HAVE BEEN DESTROYED.
I SPOKE WITH A TEACHER IN GAZA AND SHE EXPLAINED WHAT EVERYDAY LIFE IS LIKE THERE NOW AND THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS FRAGILE TRUCE.
TO YOU AGAIN AND THERE IS A MIX OF JOY AND GRIEF IN GAZA.
PEOPLE CELEBRATING BUT IT MUST BE SUCH A MIX OF EMOTIONS GIVEN SO MUCH HAS BEEN LOST.
CAN YOU TELL ME JUST WHAT THE CEASE-FIRE MEANS TO YOU?
>> ACTUALLY, I AM SO HAPPY TO BE LIVE WITH YOU.
I NEVER IMAGINED I WOULD BE A SURVIVOR BECAUSE, IT WAS THE MOST WAR I HAVE EVER WITNESSED IN THE GAZA STRIP.
I HAVE WITNESSED SEVERAL WARS BEFORE THIS BUT NONE WAS LIKE THIS TIME.
IT CONTINUED FOR 15 MONTHS AND NOBODY KNEW IT WOULD STOP ONE DAY.
ONE DAY I TOLD MY MOM THAT I AM LOSING HOPE.
I AM LOSING HOPE AND AT THE TIME OF THE CEASE-FIRE, WHEN IT I WAS WAITING, EAGERLY LIKE EVERYONE.
IT WAS A HISTORICAL MOMENT AND I SUSPECT GOOD FOR THE FIRST TIME, WILL IT BE ANNOUNCED LEGALLY OR WILL IT FAIL LIKE EVERY TIME OF NEGOTIATIONS.
AND FINALLY, THIS MOMENT, I CRIED.
IT WAS LIKE A WATERFALL AND I HAD MY DAUGHTERS.
I WAS SO HAPPY TO HAVE THE CEASE-FIRE ANNOUNCED AND WE SURVIVED BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I WAS SO SCARED OF THE FUTURE AND THE SHAPE OF MY LIFE AND WHAT IT WOULD BE LIKE IF I RETURNED.
I KNOW THAT THE CAMP HOUSES ARE ALL DESTROYED TOTALLY I CANNOT IMAGINE THE SHAPE OF MY LIFE, HOW WOULD IT BE?
HOW WOULD IT BE.
SO MANY QUESTIONS ARE STILL UNCLEAR AND AMBIGUOUS.
>> THE SURVIVAL IS EXTRAORDINARY FOR SO MANY.
WE HEAR IN YOUR VOICE THE CONTRADICTION BETWEEN THE GRIEF AND THE JOY AND AS YOU SAID, PEOPLE DO NOT UNDERSTAND IF THEIR HOMES ARE STILL STANDING.
90% OF 2.1 MILLION PEOPLE IN GAZA HAVE BEEN DISPLACED FROM THEIR HOMES, SOME AS MANY AS 10 TIMES OR MORE.
CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT YOUR EXPERIENCE IN THE LAST 15 MONTHS?
HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU HAD TO MOVE?
>> I WAS DISPLACED EIGHT TIMES.
SOMETIMES, FOUR TIMES, I WAS ZONE TO ANOTHER HUMANITARIAN ZONE UNDER ARMY INSTRUCTIONS.
IT WAS REALLY, REALLY HARD TO TAKE MY TENT, TAKE MY THINGS, UNDER FIRE AND LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.
REALLY, I DID NOT IMAGINE I WOULD STILL BE ALIVE.
AT THE SAME TIME, YOU HAVE TO SAVE YOUR CHILDREN'S LIVES.
YOU HAVE TO TAKE YOUR FAMILY INDOORS AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK AROUND AND SOMETIMES I DID NOT HAVE A CHOICE TO LOOK BEHIND AND SEE MY MOM AND HOW FAST SHE IS WALKING.
SO MANY DETAILS, SO MANY DETAILS.
YOU KNOW, IT WAS A VERY HARD EXPERIENCE.
VERY HARD.
I THINK I AM ONE OF THE TRAUMATIZED PEOPLE IN GAZA AND EVERYBODY HERE IS GOING TO WE MAY NOT STAND UP VERY FAST.
AND SAY NO THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
GAZA IS FULL OF HOPE.
BUT LIMITED HOPE.
>> WE CERTAINLY HEAR THE HOPE IN YOUR VOICE AND THE TREPIDATION AS WELL.
I KNOW YOUR PASSION IS TO TEACH AND I KNOW THAT YOU ARE VERY DEDICATED ENGLISH-LANGUAGE TEACHER.
YOU HAVE TOLD US BEFORE THAT DURING THESE HOSTILITIES, THE DISPLACEMENT OF SCHOOLS, 95% IN GAZA HAVE BEEN PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY DESTROYED ACCORDING TO THE U.N. CHILDREN'S FUND.
SO MANY SCHOOLS WERE TURNED INTO SHELTERS BEFORE THEY WERE BOMBED.
I DO WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR PASSION AND PERSEVERANCE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHO CONTINUE TO TEACH.
WHAT CAN YOU DO GOING FORWARD AND WHAT DO YOU HOPE TO DO GOING FORWARD?
BEFORE THIS.
BUT, AFTER THIS VERY HARD TIME I THINK TEACHERS NEED MORE AND MORE EFFORT TO TREAT STUDENT PSYCHOLOGY.
YES, WE ARE TRAUMATIZED BUT A BIG EFFORT IS WAITING FOR US TO DO.
IT THERE IS MUCH MORE TO DO THEM BEFORE BECAUSE OF THE WAR.
IT IS THAT LOCATED EFFORT AND MY PASSION IS --BECAUSE WHEN I STARTED TEACHING ENGLISH I STARTED FROM THE POINT THAT THE CHILDREN OR THE STUDENTS NEED THIS.
THEY NEED TO PLAY.
ONE OF MY STUDENTS IN 2008 INSPIRED ME AND STOOD UP INSIDE MY CLASSROOM.
I WAS STANDING IN FRONT OF MY STUDENTS FOR THE FIRST TIME AND SHE SAID, TEACHER, I AM SO HAPPY TODAY AND WHEN I ASKED HER WHY SHE SAID, "BECAUSE YOU ARE PLAYING WITH US AS IF WE ARE FRIENDS."
AT THAT MOMENT I FELT THAT MY STUDENT STATED ME AS A FRIEND AND A MOTHER.
>> WE HEAR AS A FRIEND AND A TEACHER, EDUCATION IS A REDEMPTION FOR THESE KIDS AND AN ESCAPE FROM THE TRAUMA AND EVERYTHING THEY HAVE GONE THROUGH.
HOW QUICKLY DO YOU BELIEVE YOU CAN GET BACK TO TEACHING AND HOW IMPORTANT IS THE CEASE-FIRE THAT IT MUST HOLD?
>> GOING BACK TO EDUCATION SHOULD NOT BE VERY LONG FROM THE CEASE-FIRE.
THE STUDENTS AND THEIR PARENTS IN GAZA NOW HAVE MORE AWARENESS NOW THAN EVER BEFORE FOR EDUCATION.
I MET PEOPLE, MANY PEOPLE IN MY DISPLACEMENT CAMS AND THEY CRIED AND ASKED ME TO TEACH CHILDREN IMMEDIATELY AND THAT IS WHAT I CALL AWARENESS TOWARDS EDUCATION.
PEOPLE GO TO SCHOOL BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO.
BUT, THEY HAVE NEVER STOPPED GOING TO SCHOOL AND -- >> WE HEAR THE APPRECIATION IN YOUR VOICE THAT YOU ARE HEARING FROM THE COMMUNITY, THESE KIDS NEED TO BE BACK IN SCHOOL.
GIVEN THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION, IN TERMS OF FOOD AND THINGS LIKE SHELTER, HOW MUCH DEPENDS ON THE NEXT FEW WEEKS?
>> I HOPE THAT THE PALESTINIANS CAN FIND MORE HUMANITARIAN LIFE, MORE DIGNITY IN THEIR LIFE BECAUSE, PEOPLE CANNOT IMAGINE BLANKETS, THEY NEED SAFE PLACES, THEY NEED HEALTHCARE.
THEY NEED MUCH BUT CHILDREN ARE THE HOPE OF THE FUTURE FOR PEACE, FOR HUMANITY, FOR LOVE.
FOR EVERYTHING.
>> ASMA, WE APPRECIATE YOU SPENDING TIME WITH US.
WE KNOW YOUR RESILIENCE AND WILL CONTINUE TO CHECK IN WITH YOU AS WE PRAY THAT THE CEASE- FIRE HOLDS.
THANK YOU.
>> AS WE DISCUSSED EARLIER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS SIGNED A NUMBER OF EXECUTIVE ORDERS INCLUDING RESCINDING 78 BIDEN ERA EXECUTIVE ACTIONS AND DELAYING THE TIKTOK BAN THAT WAS SIGNED INTO LAW LAST WEEK.
WHILE THIS IS A BLOW TO THE BIDEN PRESIDENTIAL LEGACY AND THE DEMOCRATS, LIKE THE TITLE OF HIS NEW BOOK SUGGESTS, OREGON SENATOR RON WYDEN BELIEVES IT TAKES CHUTZPAH TO FIGHT FOR CHANGE.
WALTER ISAACSON SPOKE WITH HIM.
SENATOR, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
>> YOU HAVE A BOOK OUT ABOUT HOW TO FIGHT FOR PROGRESSIVE CHANGE.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY CHUTZPAH?
>> HOTSPOT IS APPARENTLY GOOD.
--INHERENTLY GOOD.
WHEN THEY TOLD THE BRITISH TO GO FLY A KITE, THAT IS CHUTZPAH AND MISAPPROPRIATING CHUTZPAH IS SOMETHING THAT WE WANT TO REDUCE AND GOOD CHUTZPAH WE WANT TO SPREAD AND I HAVE 12 RULES OF CHUTZPAH IN THIS BOOK SO THAT YOU CAN TAKE YOUR INNER A DIFFERENCE.
>> DO YOU THINK THAT THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN THAT THE PROGRESSIVE LEFT HAS NOT BEEN PROGRESSIVE ENOUGH?
>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE PAST YEAR ON ECONOMICS IT HAS NOT BEEN A BLUNT STRAIGHTFORWARD MESSAGE.
I CAN TELL YOU THE SECOND WORD OF WHAT PEOPLE BRING UP IS BILL.
IT MIGHT BE GROCERY BILL OR MEDICAL BILL.
IT MIGHT BE ELECTRIC BILL AND THAT HAS SORT OF GOTTEN LOST IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO.
THE LATE GERALD FORD KNEW THAT YOU COULD NOT WHIP INFLATION AFTER A WHILE BECAUSE THAT WAS HIS OLD BUTTON.
BUT WE NEEDED TO HAVE A BETTER MESSAGE THAN WE DID.
>> ONE OF YOUR CHAPTERS IS TAKING HITS AND BOUNCING BACK.
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY TOOK A LOT OF HITS IN THE LAST ELECTION.
WHAT IS THE BEST WAY TO BOUNCE BACK?
>> I MENTIONED THE ISSUES.
THE SOCIAL ISSUES GIVE YOU A PERSPECTIVE.
I WAS THE FIRST UNITED STATES SENATOR TO SUPPORT MARRIAGE EQUALITY AND I DID IT 15 YEARS BEFORE ANYBODY ELSE.
IT WAS IN THE CAMPAIGN TO SUCCEED BOB PACKWOOD AND NOBODY WAS TALKING ABOUT IT MUCH AND I SAID, IF YOU DON'T LIKE GAY MARRIAGE AND DON'T GET ONE.
SO NOW I CAN WALK INTO A GROUP AND SAY, HERE IS A DEMOCRAT THAT IS LIVE AND LET LIVE AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THEIR LIVING ROOMS.
>> IS THAT LIKE TRANS RIGHTS?
OR LIKE THE DEMOCRATS GOT BEATEN BACK ON THAT ISSUE?
>> THOSE ISSUES ARE MUCH THE SAME.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE PROVIDE FREEDOM AND LIBERTY TO ALL AND THEY ARE NOT THE FIRST ISSUES THAT WILL COME UP.
>> ON THE ECONOMY YOU SAID THAT PEOPLE WORRY ABOUT PAYING THEIR BILLS.
WHAT IS IT THAT SHOULD BE DONE TO FIGHT FOR THE MIDDLE CLASS AS THE DEMOCRATS SEEM TO HAVE LOST THE LOYALTY OF THE WORKING MIDDLE CLASS THIS PAST ELECTION.
>> LET'S TAKE FOOD PRICES.
I WAS ONE OF THE SENATORS THAT LED THE FIGHT AGAINST THE ALBERTSON KROGER MERGER.
IF THAT HAD GONE THROUGH IT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE BIGGEST MERGER IN THE FOOD AND GROCERY BUSINESS IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES AND I BELIEVE ALL OF THAT CONSOLIDATION DRIVES A PRICES AND I BELIEVE IT IS TIME TO DUST OFF THE ANTITRUST LAW WE HAVE AMY KLOBUCHAR THAT HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE ISSUES.
THINGS THAT THEY CAN UNDERSTAND AND CORPORATE POWER, DRIVING A PRICES IS RIGHT AT THE TOP.
>> DO YOU THINK FOOD PRICES HAVE GONE OUT BECAUSE OF -- GONE UP BECAUSE OF PRICE GOUGING?
>> IT CAME UP IN THE CAMPAIGN, THERE WAS A QUESTION OF PRICE GOUGING.
PEOPLE CAME TO ME BECAUSE I WAS CHAIRMAN OF THE FINANCE COMMITTEE AND I SAID LOOK, WE BELIEVE DEEPLY IN LIBERTY.
WE ARE MARKET'S PEOPLE AND WE FOCUS ON MARKETS AND LIBERTY.
WHEN THE MARKETS ARE HAVING PROBLEMS YOU NEED GUARDRAILS AND MORE THAN THREE STATES HAVE GUARDRAILS TODAY SO THERE ARE CONCRETE ALTERNATIVES ON FOOD, CONCENTRATION, MARKETS.
THAT IS WHAT WE WILL BE PURSUING.
>> ONE OF THE BIG PIECES OF THIS OTHER THAN THE INAUGURATION OF PRESIDENT TRUMP IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE TIKTOK SITUATION.
AND A LAW THAT MADE CHINESE DIVESTED OR THAT BANNED TIKTOK, THEY SAID THAT LAW COULD STAND BUT YOU WANT TO EXTEND THAT.
EXPLAINED TO ME THAT POSITION.
>> I AM A BIG FREEDOM OF SPEECH GUY.
THEY SAY I AM THE FIRST AMENDMENT TALK AND I SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I BELIEVE IN FREE SPEECH.
MY DAD WAS A WRITER AND AUTHOR.
PEOPLE USE TOO DARK FOR THEIR PERSONAL LIFE AND BUSINESS AND I THINK WE NEED TO FIND AN AMERICAN BUYER AND THAT IS WHAT OUR LEGISLATION SEEKS TO DO.
>> YOU CANNOT HAVE AN AMERICAN BUYER IF IT IS SHUT DOWN BECAUSE TIKTOK SAYS IT IS HARD TO SEPARATE THE AMERICAN PART FROM THE REST OF THE COUNTRY -- COMPANY.
>> LET ME RAISE THIS CONCERN AS WE LOOK FOR AN AMERICAN BY YOUR.
THE CHINESE TO SELL TO ELON MUSK I WOULD SAY THAT SOUNDS CORRUPT TO ME BECAUSE ELON MUSK HAS BEEN HIS CAMPAIGN BENEFACTORS SO I AM GOING TO FOCUS WITH MY COLLEAGUES TRYING TO FIND AN AMERICAN BUYER.
I AM FOR SPEECH AND FOR THIS COUNTRY HAVING CHOICES IN THE COMMUNICATIONS SPHERE.
>> DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE TO ALLOW IT TO CONTINUE WITH CHINESE OWNERS?
>> I WANT AN AMERICAN OWNER.
RED WHITE AND BLUE OWNER.
>> WHY IS THAT?
>> YOU HAVE SEEN IT WITH THE CHIPS ISSUE.
WE WANT TO BUILD BACK INSTITUTIONS AND I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO THE DAYS WHERE WE HAVE GIANTS CONTROLLED FROM ELSEWHERE.
>> WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT BUILDING BACK IN THE UNITED STATES, WHAT DO YOU FEEL ABOUT SOME FORM OF TARIFFS TO STIMULATE STATES.
>> LET'S STEP BACK FOR A SECOND.
CHINESE SURVEILLANCE IS ALSO VERY MUCH ON MY MIND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE ISSUES BECAUSE, I HAVE BEEN LEADING THE FIGHT TO RESPOND WHICH IS, ACCORDING TO MY COLLEAGUES, VERY CONSERVATIVE SENATORS AND THE BIGGEST HACK IN AMERICAN HISTORY WITH THE CHINESE CLIMBING AROUND OUR PHONES.
THIS IS AN ISSUE WHERE WE HAVE GOT TO FOCUS ON PROTECTING AMERICAN RIGHT AND THAT WOULD SOLVE A BIG PROBLEM.
>> YOU TALK ABOUT WANTING TO BRING THINGS BACK TO AMERICA.
TO WHAT EXTENT SHOULD TARIFFS BE A PART OF THAT MIX?
>> I HAVE BEEN FOR USING TARIFFS IN A CAREFULLY TARGETED KIND OF WAY.
IT IS LIKE YOU HAVE A TOOL BAG.
A TOOL BAG OF RESOURCES.
TARIFFS OUGHT TO BE ONE OF THE TOOLS IN THE TOOLKIT BUT, WHAT DONALD TRUMP IS USING IS THIS UNIVERSAL TARIFF APPROACH, WHICH I BELIEVE WILL BE BAD NEWS FOR AMERICAN CONSUMERS AND BUSINESSES.
I THINK IT WILL CONTRIBUTE TO RAISING INFLATION.
IN OREGON WE LIKE TO GROW THINGS AND MAKE THINGS AND SHIP THEM ALL OVER THE WORLD AND THESE TARIFFS, THE WAY TRUMP ENVISIONS THEM, WILL BE ACROSS THE BOARD.
I ASKED THE TREASURY SECRETARY ABOUT TARIFFS AND HE GAVE THIS VERY ACADEMIC KIND OF ISSUE ABOUT HOW EVERYTHING WILL BE HUNKY-DORY AND I SAID, DONALD TRUMP LIED ABOUT TARIFFS THROUGHOUT THE CAMPAIGN.
HE SAID FOREIGNERS ARE GOING TO PAY THE TARIFFS.
AND I SAID THAT IS JUST A BUNCH OF BALONEY.
A BUNCH OF -- WILL PAY THOSE.
HE BASICALLY JUST OFFERED MORE ACADEMIC THEORY IF YOU HAVE AN ACROSS THE BOARD TARIFF APPROACH.
TARGETED TARIFFS CAN BE USEFUL.
>> IN YOUR EXCHANGE WITH THE POTENTIAL SECRETARY, HE TALKED ABOUT A 10% TARIFF.
BUT THERE IS SOME EXPLANATIONS OF WHAT THAT WOULD DO AND HOW THAT WOULD RIPPLE FOURTH.
DO YOU THINK IT IS A MORE SUBTLE QUESTION THAN THAT?
>> I THINK THE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE IS THAT ACROSS THE BOARD TARIFFS ARE GOING TO HIT CONSUMERS HARD.
TRUMP'S TARIFFS ARE GOING TO HIT VERY HARD.
THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT MR. BESSENT AND I THOUGHT, MANY OF THE ECONOMISTS THAT WE FOLLOW PRETTY MUCH SAID THE SAME THING.
THEY SAY THAT BESSENT TRIED BUT DID NOT MAKE THEM THINK THAT HIS KIND OF TARIFFS WOULD BE OKAY AND WOULD NOT HURT CONSUMERS.
I WILL TELL YOU WALTER, ONE OF THE REASONS TRUMP KEEPS TRYING TO GUSSY UP HIS APPROACH ON TARIFFS IS BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T THINK IT ADDS UP.
INSTEAD OF AN INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE HE SAID LET'S HAVE AN EXTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.
WHAT IS THAT ABOUT?
THIS IS ABOUT THE COMMERCE DEPARTMENT AND IT IS AN EFFORT TO GLOSS OVER WHAT IS GOING ON.
IF YOU GO BEYOND TARGETED TARIFFS, AS I HAVE SAID, AMERICAN CONSUMERS AND AMERICAN SMALL BUSINESSES ARE GOING TO GET HURT.
>> ALMOST 30 YEARS AGO YOU WERE INSTRUMENTAL IN CREATING WHAT WHICH BASICALLY SAYS THAT SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS LIKE X, FACEBOOK, OR EVEN TIKTOK CANNOT BE HELD RESPONSIBLE LEGALLY FOR WHAT USERS POST.
THAT HAS CHANGED THE WAY SOCIAL MEDIA HAS AFFECTED DEMOCRACY.
DO YOU HAVE CHANGES THAT YOU WOULD MAKE IN RETROSPECT?
>> I DON'T THINK THERE IS A LAW OUT THERE THAT YOU CAN'T MAKE BETTER.
I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU DON'T COME UP WITH APPROACHES THAT ARE WORSE THAN WHAT THE CHALLENGES ARE.
AT ONE POINT THE NEW YORK TIMES WROTE A LONG PIECE WITH CHRIS COX AND I ABOUT HOW WE WROTE SECTION 230 AND UNDERNEATH IT IT SAID RON WYDEN AND CHRIS COX WROTE THE LAW THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR INCREASED FREE SPEECH IN AMERICA SO WE CALLED THEM UP AND SAID WE DON'T COMPLAIN VERY OFTEN BUT MOST OF THE STUFF, WALTER, WE HATE ONLINE.
THE FILTH AND THE MISOGYNY.
IT IS NOT DRIVEN BY SECTION 230 BUT BY THE FIRST OF AMENDMENT.
90% OF WHAT WE DON'T LIKE ONLINE IS THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND I DON'T THINK ANYONE WANTS TO UNRAVEL THAT.
WE HAVE THE MODERATION PROVISION THAT WE WROTE AND I CONTINUE TO BE OPEN TO IDEAS BUT I WILL TELL YOU, TODAY, JUST LIKE WHEN WE WROTE THE ORIGINAL LAW, THE PEOPLE WHO BENEFIT ARE THE USERS, THE SMALL GROUPS, THE KNITTING GROUPS AND THE LIKE.
I DON'T THINK BLACK LIVES MATTER AND THE #METOO MOVEMENT COULD HAVE GOTTEN OFF THE GROUND IF THERE HAD NOT BEEN WEBSITES LIKE THIS THAT WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN IT.
YES TO BEING OPEN TO IMPROVEMENTS BUT LET'S NOT MAKE IT WORSE THAN THE CHALLENGES.
>> PRESIDENT BIDEN IN HIS FAREWELL ADDRESS TALKED ABOUT THE OLIGARCHY AND THE TECH INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX.
YOU HAVE BEEN VERY INVOLVED IN THOSE ISSUES.
WHAT WAS HE TALKING ABOUT AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WORRIES YOU?
>> VERY MUCH SO.
I WANT AN ECONOMY THAT GIVES EVERYBODY IN AMERICA A CHANCE TO GET AHEAD AND I THINK TRUMP AND SOME OF THE OLIGARCHS THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT INTERESTED IN THAT.
THEY WANTED TO GIVE BREAKS TO THE PEOPLE AT THE TOP AND THE IDEA IS THAT PEOPLE THAT ARE ON MEDICAID AND HUNGER PROGRAMS GOT CUT AND IT WOULD JUST SORT OF TRICKLE-DOWN.
SO, WHAT I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON IS A TAX CODE THAT SAYS WHEN TEACHERS AND FIREFIGHTERS AND NURSES PAY TAXES WITH EVERY PAYCHECK, THE BILLIONAIRES SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO BORROW AND NOT PAID TAXES FOR YEARS ON END.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT BILLIONAIRES LIKE ELON MUSK HAVING A SPECIAL CARVEOUT OF RULES JUST FOR THEM.
I TALKED WITH BESSENT IT IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE THE WORKING PERSON PAYS TAXES WITH EVERY PAYCHECK AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS ALL OF THEIR DATA IS SO, IF THEY THINK SOMETHING IS GOING OFF THE RAILS OR IS WRONG, THEY CAN USE THAT DATA BUT WITH THE BILLIONAIRES CAN DO IS BRING IN ACCOUNTANTS AND LAWYERS TO MAKE SURE THAT I DON'T PAY MUCH OF ANY INCOME THIS YEAR.
AND --.
>> IN YOUR BOOK YOU TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR PRINTABLE A PARTISAN LEADERSHIP.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
AND TO WHAT EXTENT DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE CHANCES FOR YOU TO WORK WITH THEM ON BIPARTISANSHIP.
>> BIPARTISANSHIP IS NOT ABOUT TAKING EACH OTHER'S CRUMMY IDEAS.
PRINCIPLE BIPARTISANSHIP IS ABOUT MEETING AROUND IDEAS THAT CAN BRING EACH OTHER TOGETHER.
I FELT VERY STRONGLY THAT TO FIX HEALTHCARE YOU HAVE GOT TO GET EVERYBODY COVERED AND IF YOU DON'T, THERE IS NOT ENOUGH COST- CONTAINMENT.
REPUBLICAN SAY WHAT ABOUT THE PRIVATE SECTOR?
I AM OPEN TO THAT, PARTICULARLY IN AREAS OF HEALTH RESEARCH AND INNOVATION.
WE VERY MUCH NEED A ROBUST INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE AND THE LIKE SO PRINCIPLE BIPARTISANSHIP IS NOT ABOUT TAKING BAD IDEAS.
A LOT OF TIMES IN CONGRESS PEOPLE SAY THEY ARE BIPARTISAN BUT REALLY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR IDEOLOGICAL TROPHIES THAT THEY CAN CLAIM SUPPORT.
I THINK THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE AND THEY GAVE THAT WITH CHRIS COX AND BOB BENNETT IN HEALTHCARE.
I WORKED WITH COLLEAGUES ON TAX QUESTIONS AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CONNECTS WITH PEOPLE.
BY THE WAY, YOU NEED CHUTZPAH TO DO IT BECAUSE IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE ON THE SPECIAL INTEREST, YOU HAVE GOT TO TAKE THEM ON WITH SOME CHUTZPAH.
>> SENATOR RON WYDEN, YOU, FOR JOINING US.
>> THANK YOU, WALTER.
>>> TWO AMERICANS HELD BY THE TALIBAN IN AFGHANISTAN HAVE NOW BEEN FREED IN EXCHANGE FOR A TALIBAN MEMBER SERVING A LIFE SENTENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.
THE DEAL WAS STRUCK DURING PRESIDENT BIDEN S FINAL HOURS IN OFFICE AND THEY SAY IT WAS DELAYED TO ALLOW TRUMP TO TAKE CREDIT.
A REMARKABLE IF NOT FAINT ECHO OF HISTORY.
JANUARY 20, 1981, 440 DAYS AFTER CAPTIVITY, HOSTAGES WERE RELEASED JUST MINUTES AFTER PRESIDENT REAGAN WAS SWORN IN.
ON THE 30th ANNIVERSARY OF THE HOSTAGETAKING, WE SPOKE WITH ONE OF THE HOSTAGES.
>> WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU THAT DAY?
>> THAT DAY, WHATEVER THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE DOING, WHETHER IT WAS A 1970S STYLE STUDENT SIT IN, THE RESULTS WERE VERY DIFFERENT.
THEY BROUGHT MISERY TO THE IRANIAN PEOPLE WILL.
IT WAS UNCOMFORTABLE BUT IT LASTED 14 MONTHS AND IT WAS OVER BUT, >> DID YOU THINK IT WOULD LAST THAT LONG?
>> OF COURSE NOT.
>> WHAT DID YOU THINK?
>> WE THOUGHT THIS WAS A 1970S STYLE SIT IN AS THEY HAVE IN RETROSPECT PRESENTED IT.
WHAT HAPPENED?
WE CERTAINLY DID NOT EXPECTED TO LAST THAT LONG.
THEY HAVE SAID THEY DID NOT EXPECT IT TO LAST THAT LONG BUT, WHAT THEY DID AND EFFECT WAS TO CREATE THE CLIMATE TO OF LAWLESSNESS AND MOB RULE THAT THEY AND THEIR COMPATRIOTS ARE TODAY THE GREATEST VICTIMS.
>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP ON EACH NIGHT SINCE COME TO OUR NEWSLETTER ON PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.