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> HELLO, AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
THE CITY OF CHICAGO IS INUNDATED WITH ILLEGAL GUNS.
AS THE U.S. GRAPPLES WITH GUN VIOLENCE, A LOOK AT CHICAGO, A CITY IN THE EYE OF THAT STORM.
MY CONVERSATION WITH MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT.
> THEN --
SRI LANKA'S PROTESTERS CELEBRATE AFTER FORCING OUT THEIR LEADERS.
BUT WHAT CAN SAVE THIS COUNTRY IN CRISIS?
I ASK AN ECONOMIST WHO TOOK PART IN THE DEMONSTRATIONS.
> AND --
NEW DETAILS ABOUT THE RISE AND HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
KEN AULETTA REVEALS ALL IN HIS BOOK 'HOLLYWOOD ENDING.'
ALSO AHEAD.
I STARTED TO FOCUS ON HOW TO MAKE THE TEAM WIN MORE THAN I FOCUSED ON CARING ABOUT THE PUBLIC.
LONG-TIME REPUBLICAN OPERATIVE TIM MILLER TELLS WALTER ISAACSON HOW HE HELPED PUT THE GOP ON A ROAD TO HELL.
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> WINKELMANN TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY ARE LAUDING THE PASSAGE OF THE FIRST MAJOR GUN RIGHTS LEGISLATION IN DECADES.
A SMALL VICTORY AFTER SUPREME COURT RULINGS EXPANDED GUN RIGHTS.
IN CHICAGO COULD BE THE MEASURE OF ITS SUCCESS.
THE CITY IS STRUGGLING WITH HIGH LEVELS OF GUN VIOLENCE AND LETHAL CRIME.
IN 2020 IT EXPERIENCE ED ONE OF THE DEADLIEST YEARS IN MEMORY WITH ALMOST 800 HOMICIDES.
THE STATE OF ILLINOIS IS ALSO BRACING FOR THE IMPACT OF THE SUPREME COURT'S OVERTURNING OF ROE V. WADE.
THE ABORTION ACCESS REMAINS LEGAL THERE, YOU SEE ON THAT MAP IT'S SURROUNDED BY STATES WHERE BANS ARE COMING INTO EFFECT, MEANING THAT LOCAL PROVIDERS COULD BE OVERWHELMED.
SO CHALLENGING ARE THE TIMES AHEAD.
EARLIER I DISCUSSED ALL OF THIS WITH CHICAGO MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT WHO RECENTLY ANNOUNCED SHE IS RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION.
SHE IS CURRENTLY IN EUROPE CHAMPIONING HER CITY'S ECONOMIC RECOVERY AND MAYOR LIGHTFOOT SPOKE TO ME ON THE SIDELINES OF FINTECH WEEK LONDON.
HERE IS OUR CONVERSATION.
MAYOR LIGHTFOOT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
WE SAW PRESIDENT BIDEN SIGN INTO LAW THE NEW BIPARTISAN GUN SAFETY LEGISLATION YESTERDAY.
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT WILL HELP REDUCE GUN VIOLENCE IN CHICAGO?
I THINK IT WILL GO A LONG WAY IN DOING WHAT.
WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING FINALLY HAPPENING AFTER 30 YEARS OF MASS SHOOTINGS, VICTIMS AND ADVOCATES COMING TOGETHER AND BEGGING, BEGGING FOR THE CONGRESS TO GO ACT AND IT FINALLY ACTS, I THINK IT WILL HELP NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF THE CONTENT OF THE LEGISLATION, WHICH FOCUSES SPECIFICALLY FOR CHICAGO, ON GUN TRAFFICKING AND STRAW PURCHASERS, BUT IT'S A CONFIDENCE BUILDER AND, HOPEFULLY, SETS THE FLOOR NOT THE CEILING FOR NEXT STEPS BECAUSE WE ALL KNOW WHILE THIS STEP WAS IMPORTANT, IT'S NOT NEARLY ENOUGH AND WE NEED TO KEEP PUSHING FOR MORE COMMON SENSE GUN LEGISLATION.
BUT NO QUESTION WHATSOEVER IT WILL BE A DIFFERENCE MAKER IN CHICAGO.
AND THIS DOESN'T JUST HAVE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS.
OBVIOUSLY, THERE ARE ECONOMIC IMPLICATIONS AS WELL.
THE NUMBER OF HOMICIDES THIS YEAR THUS FAR IS DOWN IN CHICAGO FROM LAST YEAR, BUT VIOLENT CRIME OVERALL IS UP 4% OVER LAST YEAR'S PACE.
YEAR TO DATE THERE HAVE BEEN 334 MURDERS IN THE CITY, OVER 1,000 CRIMINAL SEXUAL ASSAULTS.
YOU SAY THIS IN THE FRAMEWORK OF A NUMBER OF LARGE COMPANIES CHOOSING TO LEAVE YOUR CITY WHETHER IT BE HEDGE FUND CITADEL, LARGE HEDGE FUND MOVING TO FLORIDA, BOEING MOVING TO THE SUBURBS OF WASHINGTON, D.C.
I KNOW KELLOGG HAS COME INTO THE CITY.
AS YOU ARE THERE IN EUROPE AND TOUTING THE CITY'S ECONOMIC GROWTH THERE, I'M CURIOUS WHAT YOUR RESPONSE IS TO THIS MOVE FROM MANY BUSINESSES THAT ARE CITING CRIME AS THEIR NUMBER ONE REASON.
LET ME QUOTE CITADEL.
THE FIRMS ARE HAVING DIFFICULTY RECRUITING TOP TALENT TO CHICAGO GIVEN THE RISING AND SENSELESS VIOLENCE IN THE CITY.
TALENT WANTS TO LIVE IN CITIES WHERE THEY FEEL SAFE.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?
WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I AM GOING TO PUSH BACK ON YOUR PREMISE.
WHAT WE ARE SEEING ACTUALLY IS A NUMBER OF COMPANIES CHOOSING TO MOVE TO CHICAGO.
LAST YEAR WE HAD 73 COMPANIES THAT COULD LITERALLY RELOCATE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD COMING TO CHICAGO.
THIS YEAR WE HAVE SEEN ANOTHER 58 MOVING TO CHICAGO.
SO, YES, ANY BUSINESS THAT WE LOSE IS UNFORTUNATE, BUT WHAT WE ARE SEEING OVERALL IS BUSINESSES RECOGNIZING THAT CHICAGO IS THE RIGHT PLACE TO BE.
THEY ARE RECOGNIZING THAT BECAUSE OUR ECONOMY IS THE MOST DIVERSE IN THE NATION.
THEY ARE SEEING IT BECAUSE THE LEVEL OF TALENT THAT WE CAN ATTRACT IN A CITY OF CHICAGO IS SECOND TO NONE AND SEEING IT BECAUSE THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND THE COST OF LIVING IS WAY BETTER THAN WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO FIND, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT TECH TALENT, THAN ON THE COAST.
SO WITH DUE RESPECT, I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO LOOK AT ALL OF THE DATA AND THE BIGGER PICTURE BECAUSE WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS AN ECONOMY THAT IS SECOND TO NONE IN THE UNITED STATES BECAUSE ALL OF THE STRENGTHS OUR DIVERSITY, TALENT AND THIS IS AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT PLACE FOR BUSINESSES TO COME.
YOU ARE SAYING OUTSIDE OF CITADEL AND THEIR STATEMENT, YOU ARE NOT SEEING ANY CONCERN FOR MAJOR BUSINESSES IN THE CITY ABOUT CRIME LEVELS?
NO.
LOOK, EVERYONE CARES ABOUT CRIME, OF COURSE, BUT WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU IS THAT THIS IS NOT THE THING THAT IS A GATING ISSUE FOR BUSINESSES TO COME AND STAY.
WE WORK VERY CLOSELY IN CONJUNCTION WITH OUR BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO TALK TO THEM ABOUT WHAT THEIR CONCERNS ARE.
BUT WE ARE FOCUSED ON PUBLIC SAFETY.
IT IS THE NUMBER ONE PRIORITY FOR ME AS MAYOR AND FOR MY TEAM.
BUT WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU IS BUSINESSES ARE MAKING A DATA-DRIVEN DECISION AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING OVER AND OVER AGAIN, BOTH IN '21 AND AGAIN IN '22 IN THE FIRST TWO QUARTERS IS BUSINESSES OF ALL STRIPES, PHARMACEUTICALS, FINTECH, MANUFACTURING, TRANSPORTATION LOGISTICS.
THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.
THEY ARE COMING TO CHICAGO.
SO I THINK THE PROOF IS IN THE PUDDING, AND AS I SAID, ONE BUSINESS LOST ONE TOO MANY, BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS A NUMBER OF BUSINESSES FLOCKING TO CHICAGO BECAUSE OF ALL THE REASONS THAT I JUST STATED.
LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER BOMBSHELL RULING FROM THE SUPREME COURT AND THAT IS STRIKING DOWN, OVERTURNING ROE V. WADE.
YOU CALL THAT A HORRIBLE TRAGEDY AND THREATEN LEGAL ACTION AGAINST STATES WHO ARE THINKING ABOUT SEEKING TO PUNISH THOSE WHO TRAVEL TO ILLINOIS FOR AN ABORTION.
WHAT KIND OF LEGAL ACTION ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?
I'M HOPING THAT YOU CAN, BECAUSE I READ YOU MADE A CONNECTION BETWEEN GUNS AND INTERSTATE GUN TRAFFICKING AND SAYING BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR IN TERMS OF ANY LEGAL ACTIONS, MAY TAKE AGAINST YOU VIA -- BECAUSE OF ABORTIONS.
WELL, THERE HAS BEEN SOME NOTION OUT THERE IN STATE -- OTHER STATE LEGISLATURES THAT THEY ARE GOING TO BRING LEGAL ACTION AGAINST HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND AGAINST WOMEN THEMSELVES IF THEY TRAVEL OUTSIDE OF STATES WHERE ABORTION IS BANNED TO A CITY LIKE CHICAGO OR A STATE LIKE ILLINOIS.
I MEAN, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN, WHAT I HEAR WHEN I HEAR THAT IS FUGITIVE SLAVE LAWS LIKE WE ARE BACK IN THE DAY WHERE THEY ARE CHASING PEOPLE SEEKING FREEDOM.
IT'S THE SAME KIND OF DYNAMIC HERE.
I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THOSE LAWS WOULD EVER PASS CONSTITUTIONAL MUSTER, EVEN WITH A COURT ENVIRONMENT LIKE WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW.
AND I AM ABSOLUTELY PREPARED TO STAND UP AND DEFEND OUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS, HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS AND THE WOMEN WHO ARE SEEKING CARE BECAUSE CHICAGO REMAINS A BEACON OF JUSTICE FOR ALL.
WE ARE GOING TO MAKE SURE THAT NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY THAT CHICAGO REMAINS OPEN FOR WOMEN TO BE ABLE TO CONTROL THEIR OWN DESTINY, TO HAVE BODILY AUTONOMY AND ACCESS TO REPRODUCTIVE CARE BOTH BEFORE, DURING, AND AFTER ANY KIND OF TREATMENT, AND WE'RE, FRANKLY, NOT GOING TO TOLERATE OTHER STATES TRYING TO DICTATE TO US WHERE WE CHOOSE TO RESPECT WOMEN AND THEIR RIGHTS, TO TRY TO DENY THEM ACCESS TO CARE IN A CITY LIKE CHICAGO.
SO I'M READY AND WILLING AND ABLE TO DEFEND OUR ROLE AS A CITY WHERE NO MATTER WHO YOU ARE, NO MATTER WHO YOU LOVE, NO MATTER WHO YOU WORSHIP, NO MATTER WHAT COUNTRY OF ORIGIN YOU COME FROM, THAT YOU ARE GOING TO FIND A SAFE HOME IN MY CITY.
WE'RE UNABASHED ABOUT PROTECTING PEOPLE'S RIGHTS.
YOU ARE THERE IN LONDON AND EUROPE ON TOUR THERE MEETING FOR FINTECH WEEK WITH THE MAYOR OF PARIS AND THE MAYOR OF LONDON AS WELL.
WHAT ARE YOU HEARING IN TERMS OF NOT ONLY HOW THE INTERNATIONAL WORLD SEES CHICAGO, BOTH ECONOMICALLY AND POLITICALLY, BUT ALSO THE UNITED STATES ITSELF.
WE HAVE THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS CONTINUING HERE.
I'M JUST CURIOUS, WHAT IS YOUR PERCEPTION AS TO HOW OUR CLOSEST ALLIES VIEW THE STATE OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND VIEW THE CITY OF CHICAGO TODAY?
WELL, IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION TO ASK.
AS WE'RE HERE IN LONDON, OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE AWARE OF THE CHANGES THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEVEL.
WHEN WE COME TO COUNTRIES OR WHEN WE COME TO OTHER CITIES IN THE UNITED STATES WE REALLY HAVE A TWOFOLD PURPOSE.
ONE IS TO EDUCATE AND ADVOCATE FOR THE CITY OF CHICAGO AND WHAT THE REAL STORE ABOUT OUR INCREDIBLE CITY, THE STRENGTHS OF OUR ECONOMY, THE OPPORTUNITIES THAT EXIST.
AND WHEN WE HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS AS WE HAVE BEEN HAVING THROUGHOUT YESTERDAY AND TODAY IN LONDON, THE LIGHT BULB GOES OFF BECAUSE YOU DON'T HEAR THAT ABOUT CHICAGO.
FRANKLY, YOU DON'T HEAR ENOUGH ABOUT CHICAGO IN INTERNATIONAL MARKETS.
SO IT'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO EDUCATE PEOPLE.
BUT WE ALSO TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE EDUCATED OURSELVES.
WE BELIEVE THAT A CITY LIKE LONDON, WHICH IS, OBVIOUSLY, ONE OF THE ICONIC AND GREAT GLOBAL CITIES IN THE WORLD THAT HAS A LOT OF SIMILARITIES TO CHICAGO, THERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO LEARN AS WELL.
AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT THE VOID THAT BREXIT, I THINK, CREATED WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT TRADE BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE UK, THERE IS A TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO FORGE EVEN DEEPER RELATIONSHIPS.
THE UK IS A NUMBER ONE SOURCE OF FOREIGN INVESTMENT IN CHICAGO.
SO IT MAKES SENSE FOR US TO BE NURTURING THOSE RELATIONSHIPS AS WE'RE DOING HERE.
LOOK, I THINK THE OVERALL BIG PICTURE RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION IS THE WORLD IS IN A STILL IN A STATE OF FLUX.
ALL OF US HAVE, OUR WAYS OF LIFE HAVE BEEN UPENDED BECAUSE OF THE COVID-19 VIRUS AND OUR DIFFERENT RESPONSES TO THAT.
PEOPLE'S CERTAINTY ABOUT THEIR DAY TO DAY WAS TAKEN WEIWEI FROM THEM.
THE CHALLENGE AND ALSO THE OPPORTUNITY FOR GOVERNMENT LEADERS IS TO INSPIRE HOPE, OF COURSE, BUT TO TAKE CONCRETE TANGIBLE STEPS THAT RESPOND TO THE NEEDS OF PEOPLE IN THIS MOMENT AND LONDON AND CHICAGO HAVE A LOT TO LEARN FROM EACH OTHER, BUT ALSO A LOT OF OPPORTUNITY BECAUSE WE'RE GOING ON THE SAME JOURNEY, TAKING THE SAME KIND OF STEPS, AND I THINK THERE IS TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR US TO FORGE EVEN GREATER RELATIONSHIPS.
LET ME FINALLY ASK YOU, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF SOME OF THE IN FIGHTING AMONGST DEMOCRATS NOW ABOUT WHETHER PRESIDENT BIDEN IS THE RIGHT PERSON TO LEAD NOT ONLY THE PARTY, BUT THE COUNTRY FORWARD IF HE DECIDES TO RUN AGAIN IN 2024?
DO YOU THINK THAT HE SHOULD?
IF HE DOES, WOULD YOU SUPPORT HIM?
I AM AN UNABASHED SUPPORTER OF THE BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION.
FRANKLY, WHAT WE NEED TO FOCUS ON IS DEMOCRATS NOT DIVIDES US, BUT WHAT UNITES US.
AS DEMOCRATS AND CERTAINLY AT THE FEDERAL ADMINISTRATION, WE HAVE TO PIERCE THROUGH THE NOISE, MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE KNOW WHAT IS BEING DONE FOR THEIR BENEFIT SO THEY CAN FEEL IT.
PERCEPTION BECOMES REALITY.
THERE IS A OF NEGATIVITY AND WRITING THE OBITUARY OF THE BIDEN/HARRIS ADMINISTRATION, BUT I THINK THAT YOU ARE UNDERESTIMATING THE STRENGTH OF WHAT THAT TEAM HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH AND WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING MORE TO TELL THAT STORY.
I CAN TELL YOU AT THE MUNICIPAL LEVEL, NIGHT AND DAY.
THE LEVEL OF COOPERATION THAT WE GET FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, WE DON'T FEEL AS I FELT AS MAYOR, PARTICULARLY DURING THE HEIGHT OF THE PANDEMIC, THAT WE WERE ON OUR OWN.
THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATION CREATED AN EVERY MAN, EVERYWOMAN FOR THEMSELVES SCENARIO WHICH IS A NIGHTMARE IN THE MIDDLE OF A GLOBAL CRISIS.
WHAT YOU NEED AT THE TOP IS REAL LEADERSHIP AND THAT'S WHAT BIRTHDAY HARRIS HAS BEEN ABLE TO PROVIDE US AND IT MADE HUGE BENEFITS TO A CITY LIKE CHICAGO.
SO I AM VERY PRO BIDEN/HARRIS AND I WILL GRATEFULLY CAMPAIGN AND SUPPORT HIS RE-ELECTION.
MAYOR LIGHTFOOT, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND SAFE TRAVELS BACK HOME.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
> WE TURN NEXT TO SRI LANKA WHERE TODAY THE PRESIDENT WAS DENIED DEPARTURE AS HE TRIED TO JUMP ON A PLANE AND LEAVE THE COUNTRY.
A SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL SAYS HE REFUSED TO QUEUE UP FOR CUSTOMS IN PUBLIC.
WELL, IT'S NO SECRET WHY HE WOULD WANT TO AVOID PEOPLE.
AFTER ALL, IT WAS HIS FELLOW SRI LANKANS WOULD ROSE UP IN MASS PROTEST AND STORMED THE PRESIDENTIAL PALACE OVER THE WEEKEND.
WHAT YOU ARE SEEING NOW ARE PROTESTERS CELEBRATING IN THE PRESIDENT'S VERY OWN POOL.
THE MOVEMENT FORCED HIM AND HIS PRIME MINISTER TO RESIGN AND LAWMAKERS ARE SET TO ELECT A NEW PRESIDENT ON JULY 20th.
BUT CAN ANYONE HANDLE SRI LANKA'S LEGION OF CRISES.
THEY ARE IN THE MIDST OF A SHORTAGE OF FOOD, FUEL AND MEDICINE AND ALSO HAS MONTHS OF BLACKOUTS.
JOINING ME ON THIS IS AHILAN KADIRGAMAR, A POLITICAL ECONOMIST AND LECTURER AT THE UNIVERSITY OF JAFFNA.
HE ALSO TOOK PART IN THE PROTESTS OVER THE WEEKEND.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
I GUESS LET ME START OFF WITH THE BIG PICTURE QUESTION AS TO HOW A COUNTRY THAT WAS ONCE SEEN AS A MODEL FOR ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT COULD NOW BE EXPERIENCING A SHORTAGE OF EVERYTHING FROM PET ROLE TO FOOD TO BASIC ESSENTIALS.
REALLY ITS WORST CRISIS SINCE IT GAINED INDEPENDENCE FROM GREAT BRITAIN IN 1948.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
OF COURSE, THIS REGIME OF GOTABAYA RAJAPAKSO HAS COMPLETELY MISMANAGED THE ECONOMY, BUT ALSO HIT BY THE PANDEMIC AND THE RECENT PRICE HIKES DUE TO THE WAR IN UKRAINE.
BUT IN A WAY THIS CRISIS HAS BEEN IN THE MAKING FOR A LONG TIME.
SRI LANKA HAS BEEN LIVING BEYOND ITS MEANS.
WE HAVE BEEN BORROWING HEAVILY IN THE INTERNATIONAL CAPITAL MARKETS, AND NOW WE'VE GOTTEN INTO A DEATH TRAP WHERE WE ARE UNABLE TO REPAY OUR LOANS, DEFAULTED ON OUR DEBT TWO MONTHS AGO, AND NOW HAVING DIFFICULTIES IN PAYING FOR IMPORTS, INCLUDING ESSENTIAL IMPORTS LIKE FUEL AND COOKING GAS AND EVEN WHEAT FLOUR TO MAKE BREAD.
AS AN ECONOMIST, LET ME ASK YOU, BECAUSE THERE IS SOME CONCERN THAT THIS COULD CAUSE POLITICAL INSTABILITY NOW IN THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE IMF IN ADDRESSING SOME OF THOSE LOANS THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.
HOW CONCERNED ARE YOU THAT NOW WITH THIS GOVERNMENT ON THE RUN AND WE'RE AWAITING A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN A FEW DAYS, THAT THIS COULD HAMPER ANY AID AND ASSISTANCE THAT THE IMF WAS WORKING ON THE PREVIOUS GOVERNMENT WITH?
YEAH, ONCE THE PRESIDENT RESIGNS AND HE IS EXPECTED TO RESIGN TOMORROW, THEN PARLIAMENT WOULD -- IT'S NOT A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTIONS, BUT THE PARLIAMENT WOULD WORK A TEMPORARY PRESIDENT ON JULY 20th.
BUT PART OF THE PROBLEM, THE POLITICAL PROBLEM IN SRI LANKA HAS BEEN THIS PRESIDENCY WHICH BROUGHT ABOUT 40 YEARS AGO, AND THIS IS A MOMENT WHEN THE PRESIDENCY CAN BE ABOLISHED AND WE CAN GO BACK TO A WESTMINSTER STYLE PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM.
THAT HAS BEEN ONE OF THE DEMANDS OF THE PROTESTERS.
NOW, THIS CHANGE OF GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE AN -- GOVERNMENT, POSSIBLY A MINORITY GOVERNMENT IN PARLIAMENT.
WHETHER THEY WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE FORWARD NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE IMF, THE CREDITORS, IT'S TO BE SEEN.
AT THE SAME TIME SRI LANKA IS GOING THROUGH A SERIOUS ECONOMIC DOWNTURN.
CHARACTERIZE IT AS A DEPRESSION.
WHAT IS NEED URGENTLY IS REEF FOR THE PEOPLE AND SOME KIND OF STIMULUS.
THE NEXT SIX MONTHS TO A YEAR IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT TO TAKE FORWARD THESE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT SRI LANKA WOULD HAVE TO FIGURE OUT A WAY TO KEEP ITS POPULATION FROM GOING INTO STARVE ACE BECAUSE WE COULD BE LOOKING AT A FAMINE IN A FEW MONTH'S TIME IF THE CURRENT CONDITIONS OF BEING UNABLE TO HAVE IMPORTS AND THE FOOD SHORTAGES CONTINUE.
YEAH, SRI LANKA OWES A HUGE AMOUNT OF DEBT TO CHINA.
INDIA HAS EXTENDED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN LOANS OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS.
BUT YOU TALK ABOUT THE SUFFERING THAT THE PEOPLE THERE ARE EXPERIENCING.
GIVE US A SENSE OF WHAT 55% INFLATION IS LIKE.
EXPECTATIONS ARE THAT IT COULD RISE TO 70%. WE ARE HAVING A VERY SEVERE POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS HERE IN AMERICA, IN THE UNITED STATES, AS YOU KNOW, AS AN ECONOMIST, HAVE BEEN HIT HARD BY INFLATION AT RECORD LEVELS AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 8%. WHAT DOES 70% LOOK LIKE?
SO THE PRICE OF GASOLINE HAS GONE UP ALMOST THREEFOLD.
THE PRICE OF BREAD IS THREE TIMES WHAT IT USED TO BE SIX MONTHS AGO.
AND EVEN THE STAPLE, RICE, WHICH IS PRODUCED HERE, IS NOW THREE -- PARTLY BECAUSE OF A DISASTROUS FERTILIZER BAN THAT THE PRESIDENT BROUGHT ABOUT LAST YEAR.
PEOPLE'S LOST OF LIVING HAS ALMOST DOUBLED BUT THEIR INCOMES HAVE ACTUALLY DECREASED WITH THE ECONOMIC DEPRESSION.
WE COULD BE LOOKING AT GDP SHRINKING BY ALMOST A TENTH.
SO THE URGENT NEED IS RELIEF TO THE PEOPLE AND THERE NEEDS TO BE SUBSIDIES.
AND THAT'S WHERE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE IMF ARE GOING TO BE DIFFICULT BECAUSE THE PEOPLE CAN'T TAKE ON ANY MORE AUSTERITY.
THAT WOULD BE GRUELING FOR THEM.
THEY COULD BE LOOKING AT MALNUTRITION FOR THE NEXT GENERATION.
IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFICULT TASK FOR THE NEW GOVERNMENT THAT COMES UP TO WALK THIS TIGHTROPE OF TRYING TO PROVIDE RELIEF TO THE PEOPLE AT THE SAME TIME TRYING TO BRING ABOUT SOME AMOUNT OF ECONOMIC STABILITY.
IT'S A SAD STATE, HONESTLY, THAT SO MANY AROUND THE WORLD FIRST GOT A GLIMPSE OF THE CRISIS FACING THE COUNTRY BY THE VIDEOS THAT WE SAW OVER THE WEEKEND, THE PROTESTERS STORMING THE PRESIDENTIAL RESIDENCE AND SWIMMING IN HIGHS POOL, WHAT HAVE YOU.
IT GIVES YOU A SENSE OF THE LACK OF KNOWLEDGE THAT SO MANY IN THE WORLD HAVE ABOUT POLITICS AND ECONOMIES SUFFERING IN DIFFERENT REGIONS.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THESE IMAGES, I KNOW THAT YOU ALSO PARTICIPATED IN THESE PROTESTS.
WHY WAS IT IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO JOIN YOUR FELLOW COUNTRYMEN AND WOMAN?
I AM A VICE PRESIDENT OF THE PRESIDENT OF UNIVERSITY TEACHERS ASSOCIATION.
ALL THE UNIVERSITIES IN THE TRADIAN UNANIMOUSIAN, WE WERE THERE BECAUSE WE WANTED TO SEE REGIME CHANGE.
AND IN FACT IT WAS A GREAT DAY OF -- FOR DEMOCRACY IN SRI LANKA ON SATURDAY WHEN WAVES AND WAVES OF PEOPLE CAME AND DESPITE THE FUEL SHORTAGES, THEY FOUND THEIR WAY THERE ON BUSES.
THEY EVEN FORCED THE TRAINS TO RUN BECAUSE THEY WANTED A CHANGE.
AND IT'S A NEW BEGINNING FOR SRI LANKA DESPITE THESE HARD TIMES.
AND I THINK THIS IS WHAT DEMOCRACY SHOULD LOOK LIKE WHEN PEOPLE DECIDE THAT THEY HAVE TO TAKE CHARGE WHEN CONSISTENTLY THE RULE IS FROM REGIME TO REGIME HAVE UNDERMINED THE PEOPLE.
SO, HOPEFULLY, THIS OPPORTUNISTIC MOMENT WILL TRANSLATE INTO POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC STABILITY AND A DIFFERENT PATH FOR SRI LANKA.
IS THIS A SIGN OF WHAT'S TO COME IN OTHER DEVELOPING COUNTRIES THAT HAVE FELT THE IMPACT OF NOT ONLY THE PANDEMIC, BUT, OBVIOUSLY, THE ONGOING WAR, THE FOOD INSECURITY, GAS PRICES SOARING?
IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU THINK THAT OTHER NATIONS SHOULD EXPECT TO EXPERIENCE AS WELL IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AHEAD?
UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK SO.
GIVEN THOSE COUNTRIES THAT ARE HEAVILY DEPENDENT ON BORROWINGS AND INTERNATIONAL CAPITAL MARKETS LIKE THE WAY SRI LANKA GOT INTO, THEY MIGHT BE FACING A SIMILAR KIND OF DPEE DEE FAULT OR SIMILAR ECONOMIC PROBLEMS.
AND I THINK THE PEOPLE'S CONCERNS TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOES NOT LEAD TO MASS POVERTY AND DEPRIVATION SHOULD BE A PRIORITY IN ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES BECAUSE AN ENTIRE GENERATION COULD GET AFFECTED BY THIS KIND OF CRISIS.
MY FEAR IS THAT THEY ARE LOOKING, AT LEAST IN SOME PARTS OF THE WORLD, CONDITIONS LIKE THAT IN THE 1930s WITH THE GREAT DEPRESSION.
HOPEFULLY, IT WON'T BE THAT BAD, AND, HOPEFULLY, THE GLOBAL COMMUNITY CAN COME TOGETHER TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T GO THAT ROUTE.
BUT FOR THE SMALLER COUNTRIES LIKE MINE, THIS POSES HUGE CHALLENGES GOING FORWARD.
YOU TALK ABOUT THIS BEING A REASON FOR OPTIMISM IN THE DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY OF PEOPLE REALLY PROTESTING AN INEFFICIENT GOVERNMENT OUT OF OFFICE.
I'M CURIOUS, ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT ANY INSTABILITY, FURTHER INSTABILITY AND CHAOS THAT COULD ENSUE IN THE MONTHS AND IN THE DAYS AHEAD AS A NEW ADMINISTRATION WILL BE FORMING?
THE PROTESTS HAVE LARGELY BEEN NONVIOLENT.
PEOPLE ARE VERY CONSCIOUS OF THE NEED TO KEEP IT NON-VIOLENT.
AND THEY ARE TALKING TO THE POLITICAL LEADERS.
BUT WITH THE LONG ECONOMIC CRISIS THAT WE ARE FACING, WE MIGHT HAVE TO GO THROUGH A COUPLE OF CYCLES OF ELECTIONS.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED IN GREECE, OVER A DECADE, I THINK SEVEN PRIME MINISTER CHANGES.
SRI LANKA MIGHT BE LOOKING AT SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
BUT SO THAT KIND OF POLITICAL INSTABILITY MIGHT BE THERE UNTIL WE FIND A PROGRESSIVE PATH FORWARD.
BUT FOR NOW THE PEOPLE PRETTY CLEARLY THE VARIOUS TRADE UNIONS, SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, THEY ARE ALL SLOWLY COMING TOGETHER TO TRY TO FIGURE OUT A WAY FORWARD.
AND OVER THE LAST FOUR DECADES WITH LIBERAL POLICIES IN SRI LANKA, INEQUALITY HAS GREATLY RISEN.
THIS IS ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO SHIFT OUR ECONOMIC TRAJECTORY SO WE START TO THINK SERIOUSLY ABOUT EQUALITY AND FREEDOM IN OUR COUNTRY.
WE ALSO WENT THROUGH A CIVIL WAR FOR THREE DECADES.
SO IT'S ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY TO BRING TOGETHER THE MINORITIES, BECAUSE IN THESE PROTESTERS PEOPLE FROM VARIOUS FAITHS, VARIOUS ETHNICITIES ARE ALL COMING TOGETHER, AND THAT IS A MOMENT OF OPTIMISM.
YEAH, COMING TOGETHER IN ONE OF THE COUNTRY'S LARGEST CRISES IN DECADES.
AHILAN KADIRGAMAR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND EXPERTISE.
> WELL, NEXT WE LOOK TO A VERY DIFFERENT DOWNFALL, THAT OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
THE HOLLYWOOD SUPER PRODUCER ACCUSED OF BEING A SERIAL ABUSER OF WOMEN IN 2017.
HIS CASE EXPLODED INTO THE 'ME TOO' MOVEMENT AND NOW WEINSTEIN HAS BEEN PUT BEHIND BARS FOR 20 YEARS.
QUESTIONS REMAIN ABOUT HOW HE GOT AWAY WITH THE ABUSE FOR SO LONG.
SOME ANSWERS LIE IN A NEW BOOK BY 'THE NEW YORKER'S' KEN AULETTA.
IT'S CALLED 'HOLLYWOOD ENDING,' HARVEY WEINSTEIN AND THE CULTURE OF SILENCE.
KEN AULETTA JOINS ME FROM NEW YORK.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.
WE SHOULD NOTE IN IS NOT YOUR FIRST PROFILE OF HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
YOU WROTE A PIECE IN 2002 FOR 'THE NEW YORKER' AND IN IT YOU REPORT HEARING RUMORS ABOUT HIS MISCONDUCT, SEXUALLY ABUSING WOMEN.
THOSE ALLEGATIONS NEVER MADE IT INTO YOUR PROFILE THOUGH.
WHY NOT?
WELL, I COULDN'T GET THE WOMEN TO SPEAK TO ME.
I MEAN, I HAD HEARD ABOUT TWO WOMEN, ROWENA CHIU AND ZELDA PERKINS WHO WERE ABUSED AT THE VENICE FILM FESTIVAL IN 1998.
I TRACKED DOWN ZELDA IN GUATEMALA.
SHE WOULD NOT TALK.
SHE SIGNED A NONDISCLOSURE AGREEMENT, AS HAD ROWENA.
EACH GOT ROUGHLY $250,000.
AND I WENT THROUGH THE COURTS TO TRY TO FIND DOCUMENTS BUT IT WAS A PRIVATE SETTLEMENT.
HARVEY PAID THEM MONEY AND THERE WAS NOTHING IN THE COURTS IN ENGLAND OR THE UNITED STATES.
WHEN I CONFRONTED HIM, HE SAID THEY WERE BLACKMAILING HIM AND THREATENING TO TELL HIS WIFE AND EMBARRASS HIS THREE YOUNG DAUGHTERS.
AND I COULDN'T GET THE WOMEN TO SPEAK.
AND HE DENIED IT.
SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THE STORY.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS 15 YEARS LATER THE TWO 'NEW YORK TIMES' REPORTERS, RONAN FARROW, SUCCESSFULLY GOT WOMEN TO FEEL COMFORTABLE ENOUGH TO COME OUT AND ACKNOWLEDGE AND EXPOSE THIS BEAST.
YEAH, AND RONAN FARROW, OBVIOUSLY, A SEPARATE STORY THERE, HAD HIS PIECE ULTIMATELY KILLED BY HIS EMPLOYER ON THE TIME.
I KNOW YOU WORKED WITH HIM ON THAT.
SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HOPE TO HAVE ANSWERED IN THIS BOOK WAS WHAT MADE HARVEY THE MONSTER THAT HE BECAME.
YOU START BY TALKING ABOUT HIS CHILDHOOD AND HIS PARENTS, AND HOW THEY RAISED HIM.
MIRIAM AND MAX WEINSTEIN.
WHAT, IF ANYTHING, DID YOU LEARN IN HOPES OF ANSWERING THAT QUESTION ABOUT WHAT HIS CHILDHOOD WAS LIKE AND THE ROLES THAT HIS PARENTS PLAYED IN BOTH HIS LIFE AND HIS BROTHER'S?
WELL, HARVEY WAS A BIT OF A NERD IN JUNIOR HIGH SCHOOL AND HIGH SCHOOL.
EVEN WHEN HE WENT TO THE UNIVERSITY OF BUFFALO FOR THE FIRST THREE YEARS.
I COULD FIND NO EVIDENCE THAT HE ABUSED WOMEN.
BUT I DID FIND EVIDENCE IN TALKING TO HIS CHILDHOOD FRIENDS THAT HIS MOTHER WAS A VERY VOLATILE PERSON.
THE WAY HE WAS, ACTUALLY, AS AN ADULT.
AND CONSTANTLY YELLING AT HIM, SO MUCH SO THAT HIS FRIENDS WHO PLAYED POKER EVERY WEEKEND WITH HIM REFUSED TO PLAY POKER AT THE WEINSTEIN HOME BECAUSE MIRIAM WEINSTEIN YELLED TOO MUCH AND IT WAS KIND OF JARRING FOR THEM TO DO THAT.
AND SO HARVEY, WHEN YOU LOOK AT HIS CAREER, ONE OF THE THINGS HE DIDN'T IN THE OFFICE ALL THE TIME WAS YELL AT PEOPLE.
AND SO THAT'S CLEARLY A PATTERN THAT WAS FORMED IN HIS CHILDHOOD.
MIRIAM WOULD SAY, HARVEY, STOP EATING, YOU ARE TOO FAT, DON'T DO THAT, OBVIOUSLY, AFFECTED HIM.
BUT THERE IS NO ONE ROSEBUD THAT'S GOING TO EXPLAIN WHY HARVEY WEINSTEIN BECAME THE MONSTER HE BECAME.
BUT ONE OF THE OTHER CONCLUSIONS I DID COME TO IS THAT HE IS A SOCIOPATH.
IF YOU TALK TO PROFESSIONAL DOCTORS AND EXPERTS, THEY TELL YOU THAT THE THREE INGREDIENTS THAT DEFINE A SOCIOPATH ARE NARCISSISM, LACK OF EMPATHY, AND LACK OF GUILT.
AND HARVEY HAD ALL THREE OF THOSE QUALITIES.
YOU CAN HAVE THOSE QUALITIES AND NOT BE A SOCIOPATH, BUT YOU ARE NOT RAPING WOMEN AS HARVEY DID.
AND WHAT YOU MADE CLEAR IN THE BOOK, BECAUSE THERE HAD BEEN THIS CONCEPTION THAT HE PERHAPS WHEN THIS NEWS FIRST MADE HEADLINES IN 2017, THE REASON HE GOT AWAY WITH IT WAS BECAUSE HE WAS SO POWERFUL, SO SUCCESSFUL, BUT YOU WRITE IN ACTUALITY THERE WAS NO ONE IN HIS LIFE TO SAY NO TO HIM.
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE FIRST CREDIBLE ACCOUNTS OF HARVEY, THE SEXUAL PREDATOR, STARTED FROM WHEN HE GAINED POWER AND FAME WORKING IN THE MUSIC INDUSTRY IN BUFFALO, NEW YORK, BEFORE HIS DAYS AT MIRAMAX.
HOW WAS THAT POSSIBLE THAT HIS SEXUAL PRO CLIFF TEASE AND ATTACKING WOMEN AND ASSAULTING WOMEN BACK THEN WENT UNCHECKED?
WELL, IT'S OVER FOUR DECADES OF ABUSING WOMEN, AND PEOPLE KNEW.
PEOPLE WHO WORKED FOR HIM KNEW THAT HE WAS ABUSIVE.
CERTAINLY KNEW HE WAS CHEATING ON HIS TWO WIVES, THE WOMEN HE LATER MARRIED.
AND YET NO ONE -- NOTHING WAS REVEALED.
THE FIRST TIME HARVEY WAS EXPOSED IN THE PRESS AS A SEXUAL PREDATOR WAS IN 2015.
SO FOR FOUR DECADES BEFORE, NOTHING IN THE PRESS.
EVEN THOUGH THERE WERE LOTS, LOTS OF WHISPERS.
YOU TALK TO ASSOCIATES OF HARVEY'S WHO COMPARE HIM TO SORT OF A JEKYLL/HYDE.
TALK ABOUT THAT.
AND THE SORT OF LARGER THAN LIFE, THREE-DIMENSIONAL CHARACTER THAT HE WAS, A BRILLIANT FILMMAKER.
HE AND HIS BROTHER HAD A PASSION FOR FILMS THAT STARTED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE BUT THE DIFFERENT SIDES IN HIM THAT MADE FOR A VERY UNHEALTHY AND TOXIC WORKPLACE TO SAY THE LEAST.
WELL, HARVEY WAS A BRILLIANT MOVIE PRODUCER AND DISTRIBUTOR.
THAT'S UNDENIABLE.
YOU LOOK AT THE GALAXY OF MOVIES THAT WON ACADEMY AWARDS.
PULP-FICTION, SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE, 'THE CRYING GAME,' 'MY LEFT FOOT,' THE LIST GOES ON AND ON.
WHEN YOU ARE WRITING A MONITOR, IF IT'S A BIOGRAPHY, YOU HAVE TO WRITE ABOUT THE TALENT.
AND WHAT HIS LEGACY IN THE MOVIE BUSINESS IS.
I TRY TO DO THAT.
NEVERTHELESS, HARVEY NEVER STARTED TO ABUSE WOMEN UNTIL HE HAD POWER AND HE ABUSE THE THEM IN THE MOST VIAL WAYS.
AND THIS WAS A SECRET THAT NEVER GOT OUT IS ABSOLUTELY ASTONISHING.
AND YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS ON ALL OF THESE VICTIMS.
IT CHANGED THEIR LIVES FOR YEARS.
AND IT IMPACTED THEIR HEALTH.
IMPACTED THEIR RELATIONSHIPS.
THEY WEREN'T COMING FORWARD.
IN MANY OF THEM, THEY BLAMED THEMSELVES FOR PUTTING THEMSELVES IN CERTAIN SITUATIONS.
TALK ABOUT THE WORK ENVIRONMENT AND ATMOSPHERE THERE AT MIRAMAX.
I WANT TO JUST QUOTE FROM THE BOOK HOW YOU DESCRIBE LIFE AT THE FIRM IN THE '90s.
FOUR ASSISTANTS SAT OUTSIDE WEINSTEIN'S OFFICE MAKING AND RECEIVING PHONE CALLS INTERPRETING HARVEY'S MOOD RELAYING HARVEY'S ORDERS, FILING, MAKING APPOINTMENTS FOR ACTRESSES HARVEY ASKED TO SEE AND WAITING TO BE VERBALLY ABUSED.
WHY WOULD ANYONE PUT UP WITH THAT KIND OF WORKPLACE AND TREATMENT IN THE 1990s?
ONE OF THE REASONS THEY PUT UP WITH IT IS BECAUSE MIRAMAX WAS DOING AMAZING MOVIES.
AND IF YOU WANTED TO BE IN THE MOVIE BUSINESS, YOU KIND OF THRILLED TO THE IDEA THAT YOU ARE WORKING FOR A SPECIAL PLACE THAT PRODUCED OR DISTRIBUTED WONDERFUL MOVIES.
AND THE BIG STUDIOS WERE NOT PRODUCING AND DISTRIBUTING THE SAME QUALITY OF MOVIES AS HARVEY WAS.
SO IT WAS A THRILLING THING.
FOR YOUR CAREER.
AND ALSO ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STOOD OUT ABOUT MIRAMAX, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY PART OF THE COMPLEXITY OF WRITING ABOUT HARVEY WEINSTEIN, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT STOOD OUT IS THAT IF YOU WENT TO WORK AT MIRAMAX YOU HAD A REAL SHOT OF DOING THINGS IN YOUR 20s YOU WOULD NEVER DO IN A STUDIO UNTIL YOU WERE IN YOUR 40s AND 50s.
SO IT WAS A GREAT UPWARDLY MOBILE PLACE TO BE.
AND YOU FEARED HIM SO MUCH, YOU PUT UP WITH THAT ABUSE BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHAT HE WOULD DO TO YOU?
HE COULD ACTUALLY THROW AN URN AT YOU, TEN-POUND ERN, AS HE DID TO MARK GILL, HIS PRESIDENT.
HE HAD ONE OF THE HIS YOUNG ASSISTANTS HE LEFT ON THE HIGHWAY AT NIGHT, LET HIM OUT OF THE CAR, GET OUT OF THE CAR, AND ON A HIGHWAY ALL BY HIMSELF.
SO HARVEY WAS AS VOLATILE CREATURE WHO INSTILLED FEAR IN PEOPLE.
TWO TOOLS THAT SEEM TO HAVE HELPED HIM KEEP UP WITH HIS PREDATOR BEHAVIOR WERE NDAs AND ENABLERS, I WOULD SAY.
I DON'T KNOW HOW ELSE TO DESCRIBE THEM.
PEOPLE AROUND HIM WHO HAD A SENSE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING BUT PERHAPS CONVINCED THEMSELVES THAT INSTEAD OF THIS BEING SEXUAL ASSAULT, IT WAS SEXUAL HARASSMENT, AND THUS IT MAY HAVE JUST BEEN A MISDEMEANOR AND NOT A FELONY.
WHAT DID YOU TAKE AWAY FROM THE ROLE OF NDAs AND HUSHING AND SILENCING WOMEN FOR YEARS, AND THOSE AROUND HIM THAT HAD A SENSE OF WHAT WAS GOING ON?
START WITH THE NDAs.
THE WOMEN WHO SIGNED NDAs WERE AFRAID OF HARVEY AND THEY WERE AFRAID IF THEY WENT FORWARD AND EXPOSED HIM, HARVEY WOULD ATTACK THEM AND THEY WOULD BE PERCEIVED AS AMBITIOUS PEOPLE WHO WERE SEEKING PUBLICITY AND WOULD BE HARMED IN THEIR CAREERS.
SO THEY KEPT QUIET.
WELL, THEY WERE AFRAID OR THEY WERE IN DENIAL, THIS NEVER HAPPENED TO ME, OR IT'S MY FAULT, AND ONE OF THE BIG CHALLENGES IN THE TRIAL, AND WHICH I WAS THERE EVERY DAY, WAS THAT THE DI DISTRICT ATTORNEY -- THE PROSECUTORS HAD TO DEMONSTRATE THAT EVEN THOUGH THE WOMEN KEPT IN MANY CASE KEPT IN TOUCH WITH HARVEY AFTER HE ABUSED THEM.
THEY WERE NEVERTHELESS ACT GT THE WAY MANY RAPE VICTIMS OFTEN ACT AND THEY HAD -- DR. BARBARA ZIV, A PSYCHOLOGIST TESTIFIED THAT 40% OF THE WOMEN WHO ARE RAPE VICTIMS KEEP IN TOUCH WITH THE RAPIST.
THAT'S ONE THING.
THE OTHER THING, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE ENABLERS, CLEARLY PEOPLE KNEW OR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN.
AND IN THE BOOK I IDENTIFY MANY PEOPLE WHO KNEW AND BUT ALSO MANY WHO DIDN'T KNOW WOULD TELL ME WHEN I INTERVIEWED THEM TWO THINGS.
THEY WOULD EITHER SAY, WE KNEW HE CHEATED ON HIS WIFE, BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW HE RAPED AND ABUSED WOMEN, OR THEY WOULD SAY, I'LL TALK TO YOU, BUT DON'T QUOTE ME BECAUSE I DON'T WANT PEOPLE KNOW I WORKED FOR HARVEY WEINSTEIN.
WOW.
WELL, THE DAM FINALLY BROKE.
HE WAS SENTENCED TO 23 YEARS IN PRISON.
HE WAS FOUND GUILTY ON TWO COUNTS.
HE COULD SPEND THE REST OF HIS LIFE IN JAIL.
I AM JUST CURIOUS, AS YOU WERE THERE IN THE COURTROOM WITH HIM, WHAT, IF ANYTHING, SURPRISED YOU?
DID YOU SENSE THAT THERE WAS ANY REMORSE AS HE WAS TAKING ALL OF THIS IN?
NO.
I TRIED TO -- ONE OF THE THINGS I WANTED TO ASK HIM, AND I DID IN AN EMAIL EXCHANGE, WE HAD EMAIL EXCHANGES WHEN HE WAS IN PRISON, I WANTED TO ASK HIM, HARVEY, WHEN YOU PUT YOUR HEAD ON THE PILLOW AT NIGHT AFTER RANKING, SAY, JESSICA MANN, WHO WAS ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO TESTIFIED IN THE TRIAL, HOW DID YOU EXPLAIN TO YOURSELF WHAT YOU HAD JUST DONE TO JESSICA MANN?
HARVEY NEVER ANSWERED THAT QUESTION.
I THINK IF HE DID, HE WOULD SAY SOMETHING CONSISTENT WITH WHAT HE SAID IN HIS DEFENSE, WHICH IS SHE WANTED SOMETHING FROM ME, A CAREER IN MOVIES.
I WANTED SOMETHING FROM HER.
IT WAS A CONSENSUAL RELATIONSHIP.
IT WAS A TRADE.
THE BOOK IS CALLED 'HOLLYWOOD ENDING.'
A LOT OF EXPLOSIVE REVELATIONS AND DETAILS IN THIS BOOK.
KEN AULETTA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
APPRECIATE IT.
MY PLEASURE.
> WELL, AS MORE IS REVEALED ABOUT THE INNER WORKINGS OF TRUMP'S WHITE HOUSE, OUR NEXT GUEST IS LIFTING THE LID ON THE MORAL DIVISIONS WITHIN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
IN HIS NEW BOOK, 'WHY WE DID IT,' TIM MILLER EXPLORES HIS INVOLVEMENT WITH THE GOP AND HOW MANY POLITICAL STAFFERS JUSTIFIED THE NEW BRAND OF POLITICS.
HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS THE EFFECTS OF TRUMPISM.
TIM MILLER, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.
THANKS, WALTER.
THIS WAS A VERY PERSONAL BOOK.
YOU ARE INTROSPECTIVE, WHICH IS WHAT I LIKE, AND IT STARTS WITH THE FIRST SENTENCE WHEN YOU SAY, AMERICA NEVER WOULD HAVE GOTTEN INTO THIS MESS IN IT WEREN'T FOR ME AND MY FRIENDS.
EXPLAIN THAT.
YEAH, THERE HAVE BEEN A LOT OF BOOKS ABOUT THE TRUMP ERA, ABOUT THE CRAZINESS THAT HAPPENED BEHIND THE SCENES, ABOUT THE WHY OF, YOU KNOW, THE GEOPOLITICAL FORCES THAT COULD HAVE LED THEM THERE.
I FELT LIKE NOBODY REALLY GRAPPLED WITH THE D.C. POLITICAL CLASS THAT WENT ALONG WITH TRUMP TO A MUCH GREATER DEGREE THAN I THINK ANYONE, CERTAINLY I, ANTICIPATED.
AND I FELT LIKE I REALLY WANTED TO REFLECT ON -- I CAME OUT OF REPUBLICAN POLITICS, WENT TO THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE, JEB BUSH, AN I JUST, YOU KNOW, I WANTED TO TRY TO DEAL WITH WHY WERE ALL OF MY FRIENDS, WHY WERE ALL OF MY FORMER COLLEAGUES ENABLING SOMETHING THAT WAS SO MANIFESTLY EVIL THAT THEY KNEW WAS EVIL THAT THEY TOLD ME WAS EVIL IN PRIVATE, HOW DO THEY JUSTIFY IT AND HOW DID ALL OF OUR BEHAVIOR AND THE LEAD-UP TO 2016 HELP PAVE THE PATH FOR TRUMPISM.
SO THE BOOK IS KIND OF CUT IN THOSE TWO HALVES.
ONE HALF LOOKING BACK AT MY COMPLICITY FROM BASICALLY PALIN THROUGH TRUMP AND THEN THE SECOND HALF THOSE WHO STUCK AROUND AFTER I BAILED.
LET'S TALK ABOUT YOU FIRST.
YOU WILL TALK ABOUT YOUR COMPLICITY.
WHAT LED YOU DOWN THAT PATH AND WHEN DID YOU REALIZE YOU HAD CROSSED CERTAIN LINES?
COMPETITIVENESS IS THE ANSWER.
I LOVE THE GAME OF POLITICS.
YOU KNOW, IF WE GIVE A NAME TO THE FIRST HALF THE BOOK IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CALLED 'THE GAME.'
EVERYONE GETS INTO POLITICS.
THEY HAVE THIS EARNESTNESS ABOUT THEM, IDEALISM.
BUT VERY QUICKLY THAT TURNS, YOU KNOW, TO THOSE OF US ON THE CAMPAIGN SIDE INTO THIS SORT OF JADED POLITICAL GAMESMANSHIP, THE HORSE RACE, THE DESIRE TO WIN, CLEVER TACTICS AND STRATEGIES TO DEFEAT THE OTHER SIDE.
SO DESPITE THE FACT THAT I WAS A MODERATE REPUBLICAN AND MORE IN COMMON WITH, YOU KNOW, JOE MANCHIN OR A KYRSTEN SINEMA TYPE OF DEMOCRATIC THAN I DO WITH A FAR RIGHT TEA PARTY REPUBLICAN, I PUT ON THE JERSEY OF THE RED TEAM AND I STARTED TO FOCUS ON HOW CAN I HELP MY TEAM WIN, YOU KNOW, MORE THAN I FOCUSED ON CARING ABOUT THE PUBLIC.
AND SO I STARTED THIS GROUP CALLED AMERICAN RISING WHICH WAS AN OPPOSITION RESEARCH FIRM.
AND WITHIN TWO YEARS I HAD GONE FROM WORKING ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN OF JON HUNTSMAN, THE MOST MODERATE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS IN THE PAST CENTURY, YOU KNOW, TO BEING A HATCHET MAN.
I WAS TRYING TO TEAR DOWN THE DEMOCRATS ANY CHANCE I GOT.
AND I FELT LIKE THAT WAS, IN RETROSPECT, SOMETHING I REGRET AND THIS DEEP RED LINE WHERE I GOT SO ENAMORED WITH THIS GAME AND BEING GOOD AT IT AND BEATING THE OTHER SIDE I FORGOT WHY I GOT IN POLITICS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
LASTLY, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE A SURPRISE IF WE TREAT POLITICS LIKE A BIG GAME, THAT SOMEBODY WHO WAS A -- HAD A CAREER AS A GAME SHOW HOST, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER AT MANIPULATING THE SYSTEM AND THE MEDIA THAN ALL OF US NERDY D.C. TYPES.
AND SO I DO THINK THAT THE WAY THAT WE TREAT IT, THE WAY WE ACT AND TREATED POLITICS HELPS ALLOW FOR TRUMP, YOU KNOW, TO TAKE THINGS OVER AND, YOU KNOW, IN HIS NIHILISTIC WAY.
YOU GOT SO CAUGHT UP IN THE GAME.
YOU ARE A GAY GUY WHO ENDED UP WORKING FOR HOMOPHOBIC CANDIDATES.
I MEAN, HOW DID YOU SQUARE THAT?
COMPARTMENTALIZED IT.
I DIDN'T THINK ABOUT IT.
I JUSTIFIED ITTISM THOUGHT, WELL, THIS CANDIDATE I LIKE MORE ON THIS ISSUE OR THAT ISSUE.
IT WAS ALL B.S.
I WAS TELLING MYSELF THIS STORY THAT ALLOWED ME TO CONTINUE WORKING GOOD CONSCIENCE AND NOT THINK ABOUT THIS MAJOR CONFLICT I HAD.
AND THE REASON I GOT VERY PERSONAL TALKING ABOUT THIS IN COMING OUT AND HOW I JUST LOCKED THIS AWAY IN A COMPARTMENT IN MY BRAIN.
I FELT LIKE IF I COULD EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE HOW I JUSTIFIED THAT, HOW I WORKED FOR SOMEBODY THAT WANTED TO DENY ME THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF MY LIFE, MY HUSBAND, MY ADOPTED CHILD, LIKE HOW EASY THEN FOR SOMEBODY TO JUSTIFY WORKING FOR SOMEBODY THE IMPACT OF THEIR POLICY DIDN'T AFFECT THEIR LIVES, YOU ARE A PRIVILEGED EDUCATED SUCCESSFUL PERSON, TRUMP'S POLICIES DIDN'T AFFECT YOU, YOU KNOW, IT WAS THESE MORE EF EMERIL THING ABOUT THE BODY POLITIC AND DEMOCRACY AND, YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN AFFECTED BY BORDER POLICIES, HIS CRUELTY.
I FELT LIKE IF I COULD EXPLAIN WHY I DID WHAT I DID, IT WOULD, HOPEFULLY, SHINE A LIGHT ON -- AND NOT APPROVE OF, BY THE WAY, NOT EXCUSE, BUT JUST SHINE A LIGHT ON HOW PEOPLE RATIONALIZED IT IN THE HOPES OF USING THAT EXPERIENCE TO SHAKE THEM FREE OF THEIR RATIONALIZATIONS THE WAY I WAS SHAKEN FREE.
ONE OF THE FRAMING DEVICES IN YOUR BOOK IS CAROLYN REN WHO WAS A REALLY CLOSE FRIEND OF YOURS.
A DEEP CONFIDANT.
HOW DID SHE GO ASTRAY AND HOW DID YOU KIND OF REACT TO THAT?
YEAH, SO I BECAME A NEVER TRUMPER AND LEFT THE PARTY AND SHE WENT FULL IN WITH TRUMP.
SHE GOT THIS JOB WORKING FOR THE CONVENTION, THE RNC CONVENTION, AND TRUMP WINS THE PRIMARY.
SO THREE WORKS FOR TRUMP.
AND SO SLOWLY OVER TIME WE LOSE TOUCH AS I GET MORE RADICALLY VOCALLY ANTI-TRUMP AND SHE BECOMES AND GETS MORE DEEP INTO HIS ORBIT.
AND SO I WANTED TO FIGURE OUT WHERE WE PARTED WAYS AND MAYBE SEE HOW I COULD SHAKE HER FREE.
THERE IS A WONDERFUL SCENE NEAR THE END OF THE BOOK WHERE YOU ARE DRINKING MARGARITAS OR TEQUILA WITH HER HOURS ON END TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, AND THE ONE THING SHE WON'T TELL YOU IS WHETHER OR NOT SHE BELIEVED TRUMP ACTUALLY WON THE ELECTION.
DESCRIBE THAT DINNER OR THOSE DRINKS FOR ME.
WELL, YOU KNOW, IT WAS EMOTIONAL.
IT'S PERSONAL, RIGHT?
OUR POLITICS IS DEEPLY PERSONAL.
WE WERE SUCH CLOSE FRIENDS.
I KNEW THERE WAS A GOOD PERSON IN THERE.
AND SHE HAD FLOWN TO GERMANY ON HER OWN TO HELP REFUGEES DURING THE REFUGEE CRISIS.
YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T A SOCIOPATHS.
THERE ARE SOCIOPATHS AROUND TRUMP.
SHE WENT ONE.
SO GETTING A LITTLE BIT DRUNK AND GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND SHE WOULDN'T ADMIT TO ME THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD LOST.
AND I COULD TELL SHE KNEW IT.
I SAW THE GLEAM IN HER EYE.
SHE KNEW IT.
SHE KNEW IF SHE ADMITTED IF IT IN A BOOK, THAT COULD CAUSE HER TO GET CAST OUT FROM TRUMP WORLD.
AND THE FINAL MOMENT WHEN I REALLY TRIED TO BREAK THROUGH TO HER IS SHE KEPT SAYING TO ME, YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THESE TRUMP VOTERS, WHAT THEY THINK, AND THESE ARE GOOD PEOPLE AND I DO CARE.
AND I SAID THAT'S NOT TRUE.
TRUMP DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THESE PEOPLE.
THE JANUARY 6th MANY OF THEM THEIR LIVES HAVE BEEN RUINED.
TRUMP SUPPORTERS DIED THAT DAY.
I TRIED TO BREAK THROUGH TO HER AND SAY IT WAS DONALD TRUMP'S FAULT AND THAT HE WAS THE ONE WHO DOESN'T CARE.
BUT SHE JUST HAS BEEN SO, YOU KNOW, CAUGHT UP IN DEFENDING HER TEAM AND BEING PART OF THIS, BEING IN THE MIX, THAT DESPITE HAVING -- AND PEOPLE CAN READ IT, DESPITE HAVING MAKE ONE MOMENT I THOUGHT I COULD BREAK THROUGH, IT'S JUST HARD, YOU KNOW, TO CRACK THESE RATIONALIZATIONS.
THE THEME OF YOUR BOOK IS A VERY LARGE ONE, AND IT ISN'T JUST ABOUT POLITICS.
IT'S ONE OF THE OLDEST IN HUMAN HISTORY.
I MEAN, SOPHOCLES STAKES IT ON IN THE PLAY AN TIGMY.
WHY DO PEOPLE BECOME COLLABORATORS, ENABLERS OF THINGS THEY KNOW ARE BAD.
WHAT ARE THE DIFFERENT TYPE OF ENABLERS AND COLLABORATORS, THIS MINDSET WE ARE FIGHTING TODAY THAT YOU FOUND IN YOUR OWN PARTY?
THANKS, WALTER.
I AM GLAD YOU RECOGNIZED THAT.
I TRIED TO WRITE THE BOOK IN A WAY IT WASN'T JUST ABOUT POLITICS, THAT PEOPLE IN OTHER WALKS OF LIFE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WORKING FOR THE BIG BANKS BEFORE THE MARKET CRASHED OR FOR OIL COMPANIES AFTER A SPILL, THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME, YOU KNOW, CONNECTIVE TISSUE THAT THEY COULD RECOGNIZE THEMSELVES OR THEIR FRIENDS.
THE MAIN THINGS WERE NUMBER ONE DEMONIZATION OF THE OTHER SIDE.
THEY BECOME SO CONVINCED THAT THE OTHER SIDE IS EVIL THAT THEY JUSTIFY, YOU KNOW, WORKING FOR, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T LOOK AT A LOG IN THEIR OWN EYE.
INERTIA.
YOU HAVE A JOB, YOU HAVE A FAMILY, YOU HAVE A CAREER AND YOU ARE GOING UP THE LADDER.
IT BECOMES HARD TO JUMP OFF THE LADDER, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT'S SO TIED TO YOUR IDENTITY.
WE TALKED ABOUT COMPARTMENTALIZATION.
THIS DESIRE TO BE IN THE MIX, DESIRE TO BE AROUND IMPORTANT, INTERESTING THINGS, THE BUZZ OF POLITICS, BUZZ OF THE GAME WAS ANOTHER ONE.
AMBITION.
MONEY.
ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO IS ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATED IN YOUR BOOK AND WHO I STILL DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND IS LINDSEY GRAHAM.
I MEAN, YOU RODE ALONGSIDE HIM WORKING FOR JEB BUSH.
HE HATED TRUMP.
HE WOULD TELL YOU THAT.
HE SPENT HOURS IN A BAR TELLING YOU THAT.
I DON'T QUITE GET WHAT BROUGHT LINDSEY GRAHAM TO BE SO DISINGENUOUS.
AS MUCH AS I HATE DONALD TRUMP, AND I HATE DONALD TRUMP, I DON'T KNOW IF I TALKED TO ANYBODY THAT HATED HIM MORE THAN LINDSEY GRAHAM IN 2016.
HE WOULD GO ON AND ON, CALL ME LATE IN THE TALKING ABOUT HOW HORRIBLE HE WAS, RACIST HE IS, GOING TO RUIN POLITICS AND THE PARTY.
THE LINE IN 'HAMILTON' HOW YOU WANT TO BE IN THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS.
THIS IS A DISEASE IN WASHINGTON.
IT'S AN ADDICTION.
NO DIFFERENT THAN A REAL DRUG ADDICTION.
THE PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON WANT TO BE AT THE TOP.
PEOPLE SAY IT'S POWER.
NOT EVERYBODY WANTS THE POWER BECAUSE THAT COMES WITH RESPONSIBLE.
THEY WANT TO BE IN THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENS, ON THE RIGHT HAND.
PERSONAL MAKING THE DECISIONS TRYING TO INFLUENCE THEM.
THIS IS THE CONNECTIVE TISSUE THROUGH HIS CAREER.
JOHN McCAIN ALL THE WAY FORWARD TO TRUMP, HE WANTED TO BE IN THE MIX.
HE WAS A GUY WHO, YOU KNOW, HIS PARENTS -- HE WAS ABANDONED AS A KID, GREW UP IN A BAR.
HE HAD RISEN TO THE HEIGHTS OF WASHINGTON POWER.
AND SO IT'S NOT THAT HE DOESN'T ARE PHILOSOPHICAL BELIEFS.
HE DOES.
THOSE ARE SUBORDINATE TO HIS DESIRE TO BE IMPORTANT.
TO HAVE INFLUENCE.
AND SO SLOWLY BUT SURELY DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE SAW DONALD TRUMP FOR WHO HE WAS HE JUSTIFIED IT BECAUSE HE KNEW HE COULD GET INVITE NEIGHBORHOOD THE GOLF CART.
THAT'S WHAT I KNEW ON JANUARY 6th.
I KNEW BECAUSE I KNEW LINDSAY, DESPITE THE FACT THAT HE SAID THE RIGHT THING THAT DAY, EVENTUALLY HE COULD COME BACK.
YOU HAVE MANY CATEGORIES OF PEOPLE WHO FALL PREY TO BEING COLLABORATORS WHO WON'T STAND UP TO WHAT THEY KNOW IT THE TRUTH.
ONE IS STRIEFR.
I THINK YOU HAVE A LEE STEFANIK, THE CONGRESSWOMAN FROM UPSTATE NEW YORK IN THAT CATEGORY.
EXPLAIN HER TRAJECTORY.
PROBABLY THE MOST DISAPPOINTING AND DEVASTATING.
SHE WAS TIM -- HONESTLY WE WORKED TOGETHER ON THE AUTOPSY IN 2012.
I DECIDED TO DO POLITICAL CONSULTING.
SHE DECIDED TO RUN FOR OFFICE.
SHE RAN ON A PRO -- WE NEEDED TO DEAL WITH CLIMATE CHANGE, PRO GAY RIGHTS, BE NICE TO IMMIGRANTS, COMPASSIONATE, CONSERVATIVE, FUTURE ORIENTED REPUBLICAN PLATFORM IN 2014.
THROUGH THE TRUMP ERA INTO 2017 SHE STILL WOULDN'T SAY HIS NAME.
SHE TRIED TO RECRUIT OTHER ANTI-TRUMP REPUBLICANS TO RUN FOR CONGRESS.
THEN IN 2018 SOMETHING CLICKED.
SHE REALIZED THAT IF SHE WANTED POWER, THAT SHE COULDN'T KEEP DOING WHAT SHE WAS DOING, PEOPLE WEREN'T SHOWING UP TO HER EVENTS.
SHE NEVER WAS GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, IN LIPAN LEADERSHIP, NEVER HAVE ALL THE APPLAUSE, BUT IF SHE WENT WITH TRUMP THAT WOULD HAPPEN.
SO SHE DUMPED ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HELPED HER GET THERE.
SHE SPOKE AT SOMEONE'S WEDDING, GOT FIRED FOR SAYING SHE WAS GOING TOO FAR WITH TRUMPISM.
AND THE SAD PART OF THE STORY IS IT WORKED FOR HER.
LIST FOR RVP IF TRUMP RUNS AGAIN.
SHE COULD BE SPEAKER OF THE HUGHES HOUSE IN FIVE IT TEN YEARS.
SHE WAS NOT MAGA AT ALL.
SHE SAW TRUMP EXACTLY FOR THE PERSON THAT HE WAS.
SHE RUE FUSED TO SAY HIS NAME.
NOW SHE IS ON THE CUSP OF POTENTIALLY AN HISTORIC ROLE IN AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.
IT'S REALLY SAD.
YOUR BOOK IS INFESTED WITH A WHOLE BUNCH OF PEOPLE WHO BECOME COLLABORATIONISTS DESPITE WHAT THEY BELIEVE.
ALISE STEFAN I CAN, DAN CRENSHAW, LINDSEY GRAHAM, AND YET IF YOU LOOK AT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY I THINK I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND THE NUMBER OF WHO HAVE REALLY NOT DONE THAT, WHO HAVE -- IN FACT, I MIGHT HAVE THREE FIGURES LEFT IF I TRY TO COUNT IT ON ONE HAND.
WHY IS IT THAT MORE REPUBLICANS HAVEN'T STOOD UP FOR WHAT YOU KNOW THAT THEY BELIEVE?
IT COMES DOWN TO THE FACT THAT THIS IS A BOTTOM-UP PROBLEM.
I THINK THAT THE JUSTIFICATIONS MIGHT BE DIFFERENT FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BUT WHAT REALLY IS DRIVING ALL OF THIS IS THAT THIS THE VOTERS, THE REPUBLICAN VOTERS WANT TRUMPISM.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.
AND SO IF YOU WANT TO BE A REPUBLICAN IN GOOD STANDING, YOU HAVE TO GIVE THE VOTERS WHAT THEY WANT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE.
I THINK WHERE PEOPLE HAVE GONE WRONG AND WHERE I'M CRITICAL AND PEOPLE HAVE GONE AFIELD IS BY NOT USING THEIR OWN ADJUSTMENT, BY COMPLETELY GIVING IN TO THE MOB ON EVERY SINGLE THING FROM THE ELECTION CONSPIRACIES TO VACCINE CONSPIRACIES.
AT SOME LEVEL IF REPUBLICAN VOTERS WANT TRUMPISM, IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE ANTI-TRUMP, THEN YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE THE FATE THAT LIZ CHENEY IS ABOUT TO HAVE, LOSE A PRIMARY.
THANK GOD SHE IS DOING WHAT SHE IS DOING.
BUT I THINK WHILE WE CAN EXPLAIN THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF COMPLICITY, THE FUNDAMENTAL PROBLEM THAT UNDERGIRTHS ALL OF IT IS THAT WHAT REPUBLICAN VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY ARE LOOKING FOR IS SOMEBODY THAT'S GOING TO FIGHT THE LEFT, IS THE CRUELTY, THE NATIVISM, AND THAT IS THE ELEMENT THAT I DIDN'T GET INTO IN THIS BOOK.
MAYBE THAT'S FOR A FOLLOW-UP BOOK THAT NEEDS TO BE WRITTEN WE ARE WITH GOING TO GET BACK ON TRACK.
HOW AND WHY HAVE THE DEMOCRATS AND THOSE ON THE LEFT FAILED AT TAKING ON TRUMP AND TRUMPISM?
TWO WAYS, IN MY OPINION.
NUMBER ONE, I DON'T THINK THAT THERE IS A CONCERTED EFFORT TO HIGHLIGHT JUST HOW EXTREME THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS FROM THE TOP DOWN.
THERE IS ALMOST THIS TRUMP OBSESSIVENESS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE PEOPLE THAT ARE RUNNING, GOVERNORS RACES, SENATE RACES, LOCAL LEVELS IN REPUBLICAN POLITICS RIGHT NOW, THEY ARE SO MUCH MORE EXTREME.
THEY MAKE THE TEA PARTY GUYS LOOK LIKE GEORGE BUSH H.W. BUSH.
THE CONSPIRACY MIND IS OUT THERE.
AND SOMEHOW THE DEMOCRATS ARE LETTING THEMSELVES GET DEFINED BY THE SAN FRANCISCO SCHOOL BOARD, YOU KNOW, OR THE CRAZIEST LIBERAL AND YET THE REPUBLICANS ARE NOT GETTING DEFINED BY MAINSTREAM CANDIDATES RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN BIG STATES.
AND PART OF THAT IS MESSAGING.
PART OF THAT IS MEDIA.
THERE IS A LOT THAT GOES INTO THAT.
I THINK THE DEMOCRATS NEED A CONCERTED EFFORT TO DEFINE FOR THE BIG MIDDLE OF THE AMERICA JUST HOW EXTREME THE REPUBLICANS ARE.
THE OTHER THING, THIS IS EASY TO SAY FROM A FORMER REPUBLICAN, SO I GET IT, BUT THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT.
TRUMP IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT.
I WISH THE DEMOCRATS TREATED IT AS SUCH.
WHEN YOU HAVE AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT IN FRONT OF YOU, SOMETIMES YOU NEED TO MAKE SACRIFICES AND BE WILLING TO WELCOME MORE PEOPLE INTO THE FOLD AND SAY, MAN, YOU KNOW, I MIGHT NOT, YOU KNOW, THIS MIGHT NOT BE THE PERFECT STRATEGY OR PERFECT CANDIDATE OR POLICY, BUT THE OTHER GUYS ARE SO BAD, WE ARE GOING TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO KIND OF PILE TO THE BROADER PART OF THE COUNTRY.
I DON'T REALLY SEE THE DEMOCRATS DOING THAT.
AT TIMES I SEE THEM TURNING OFF THE MIDDLE IN VARIOUS WAYS.
SO, YOU KNOW, LOOK, I VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN.
I THINK ON BALANCE THE DEMOCRATS ARE CLEARLY LESS EXTREME AND THE BETTER OPTION GIVEN THE THREAT TO REPUBLICANS.
BUT I HAVE KNIT PICKS.
YOUR BOOKENDS WITH YOU SAYING THAT THE ROAD THAT BROUGHT US HERE HAS BEEN VERY LONG, AND CAN THE COMPLEXITIES THAT DROVE US DOWN THAT ROAD BE MENDED?
NO.
I MEAN, MENDED?
NO.
THAT MEANS PERMANENTLY FIXED.
I GUESS YOU STILL HAVE THE SCAR, BUT IT'S FIXED.
I THINK THERE ARE THINGS TO BEND THE ROAD BACK TO RATIONALITY A LITTLE BIT.
I THINK TRUMP HAS UNIQUE PSYCHOPATHIC BEHAVIORS THAT IF HE WERE TO LEAVE, YOU KNOW, WE STILL WOULD HAVE THESE UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT KIND OF LED US TO TRUMPISM.
I THINK THAT WOULD HELP AT LEAST IN THE SHORT TERM, YOU KNOW, BUT A BAND SAID ON SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS TO EXTEND THE METAPHOR.
BUT THE PROBLEM IS, IS THIS UNDERLYING DEMAND, THIS GRIEVANCE THAT'S COMING FROM REPUBLICAN VOTERS THE FACT THAT THEIR GRIEVANCE IS BEING STOKED BY CONSERVATIVE MEDIA, BEING STOKED BY THE CANDIDATES THEMSELVES, IT'S LIKE CREATING A TRIANGLE OF DOOM RADICALIZING PEOPLE MORE AND MORE, THAT'S GOING TO BE HARD TO REVERSE AND IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LONG TIME TO REVERSE.
IT'S NOT JUST GONNA HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.
TIM MILLER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU, WALT EARLY.
IT WAS MY HONOR.
APPRECIATE YOU HAVING ME.
> FINALLY, A GLIMPSE INTO INFIBTY.
THE WAIT IS FINALLY OVER.
THIS IS INCREDIBLE.
NASA HAS REVEALED THE FIRST IMAGES TAKING BY THE MOST POWERFUL STAYS TELESCOPE EVER, THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE, WHICH TOOK NEARLY 20 YEARS AND $10 BILLION TO COMPLETE.
TAKE A LOOK AT THESE IMAGES USING INFRARED LIGHT, A STELLAR NURSERY WHERE STARS ARE BORN, INTERACTIONS BETWEEN PLANETS AND GALAXIES, THAT DATE BACK BILLIONS OF YEARS, ALMOST ALL THE WAY TO THE BIG BANG.
THE FIRST IMAGE WAS RELEASED YESTERDAY AND SHOWED THOUSANDS OF DISTANT GALAXIES AND A PATCH OF SKY THAT ACCORDING TO NASA IS APPROXIMATELY THE SIZE OF A GRAIN OF SAND HELD AT ARM'S LENGTH.
AMAZING IMAGES UNLOCKING MORE OF THE UNIVERSE'S SECRETS AND WORTH EVERY PENNY SPENT THERE.
AND THAT IS IF FOR OUR PROGRAM.
YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.