07.17.2024

July 17, 2024

Atlantic writer David Frum discusses Donald Trump’s conduct, both before and after the attempt on his life. UN Climate Chief Simon Stiell on the devastating effects of climate change that are playing out globally. Gov. Chris Sununu (R-NH) explains why he is now backing former Pres. Trump. Pres. LBJ’s daughter, Luci Baines Johnson discusses the parallels between her father’s presidency and today.

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♪♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>>> DONALD TRUMP HAS MY STRONG ENDORSEMENT, PERIOD.

>> REPUBLICANS HIGHLIGHT UNITY, AS DONALD TRUMP'S PRIMARY OPPONENTS FALL IN LINE.

I SPEAK WITH FORMER GEORGE W. BUSH SPEECHWRITER DAVID FRUM ON RECKONING WITH TRUMP'S RADICALISM IN A VIOLENT TIME.

THEN -- >> THE CLEAR MESSAGE, CLEAR MESSAGE IS NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE, AND WHAT IS BEING DONE IS NOT BEEN DONE FAST ENOUGH.

>> U.N.

CLIMATE CHIEF SIMON STIELL DESCRIBES THE DAMAGE WRECKED BY HURRICANE BERYL, AND HOW THE MOST POLLUTING NATIONS NEED TO CLEAN UP THEIR ACT FAST.

AND -- >> EVERYONE HAD THEIR SHOT, THEY VOTED FOR TRUMP, WE'RE GOING TO GET BEHIND TRUMP.

>> ANOTHER FORMER TRUMP CRITIC JUMPS ON THE BANDWAGON.

WALTER ISAACSON TALKS TO NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU.

>>> PLUS, A PRAYER FOR HEALING.

LBJ'S DAUGHTER IN JOINING WITH CHILDREN OF PRESIDENTS FROM BOTH PARTIES AFTER TRUMP'S ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT.

>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

CANDACE KING WEIR.

THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.

MARK J. BLECHNER.

THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.

SETON J. MELVIN.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.

CHARLES ROSENBLUM.

KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.

JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

WE THOUGHT WE'D START THIS PROGRAM TONIGHT WITH A BLAST FROM THE PAST, WHICH NONETHELESS IS A TRADITION THAT STILL SIGNALS THE PEACEFUL TRANSITION OF POWER.

IT'S THE BRITISH OPENING OF PARLIAMENT, MARKED BY ANCIENT PAGEANTRY, WHERE THE CONSTITUTIONAL MONARCH READS A SPEECH, LAYING OUT HIS GOVERNMENT'S AGENDA.

IN THIS CASE, THE NEW LBOUR GOVERNMENT, WHICH WAS ELECTED THREE WEEKS AGO, AFTER 14 YEARS OF TORY RULE.

A SHORT CAMPAIGN WAS FULL OF THE THRUST AND PARRY OF POLITICS, BUT NONE OF THE EXTREME VERBAL OR ACTUAL VIOLENCE THAT HAS ROCKED AMERICA.

WHILE IN THE UNITED STATES, AT THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION, THE PARTY IS RECKONING WITH A FAILED ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND A BITTERLY DIVIDED NATION LOOKS WITH SOME TREPIDATION TO THE REST OF THE CAMPAIGN AND NOVEMBER'S ELECTION.

ON DAY THREE OF THE CONVENTION IN MILWAUKEE, ONE THING IS CRYSTAL CLEAR.

TRUMP IS KING OF THE GOP.

EVEN HIS FORMER RIVALS FOR THE NOMINATION, NIKKI HALEY AND RON DeSANTIS, DESPITE ATTACKING HIM THROUGHOUT THE PRIMARIES, NOW PLEDGE THEIR ALLEGIANCE.

UNITY IS THEIR THEME, BUT OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS IT RISKS ERASING IMPORTANT CONTEXT ABOUT THIS PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

IN THE ATLANTIC, WRITER DAVID FRUM ARGUES THAT WHILE ALL DECENT PEOPLE WELCOME TRUMP'S LIFE BEING SAVED, HIS OWN CONDUCT LEADING UP TO THAT DAY SHOULD NOT BE FORGOTTEN.

DAVID FRUM JOINING ME FROM WELLINGTON, ONTARIO, IN CANADA.

DAVID FRUM, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU.

>> CAN I JUST ASK BY YOU SETTING THE SCENE?

WE HAD YOU ON LAST WEEK BEFORE THIS ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE POLITICAL ATMOSPHERE RIGHT NOW.

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE THEME OF UNITY, AND ALL THE NEVER-TRUMPERS COMING UP AND ENDORSING HIM.

IS THAT KIND OF PAR FOR THE COURSE, OR IS IT BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED?

>> WELL, IF YOU ENDORSE DONALD TRUMP, YOU'RE NOT A NEVER-TRUMPER.

NEVER-TRUMPERS DON'T ENDORSE.

THEY KEEP GOING UNTIL THE END.

AND WE HAVE TO GO UNTIL THE END.

THE THEME OF UNITY THAT DONALD TRUMP IS PROPOSING, IS NOT UNITY ON BEHALF OF AMERICAN VALUES.

IT'S NOT UNITY IN DEFENSE OF THE CONSTITUTION.

IT'S UNITY, MEANING, NOBODY CRITICIZE HIM FOR HIS PAST ACTIONS.

NOBODY REMEMBER THAT HE TRIED TO OVERTHROW AN ELECTION.

NOBODY REMEMBER THAT HE EXALTED AND GLOATED AND JOKED ABOUT THE NEAR MURDER OF NANCY PELOSI'S HUSBAND.

NOBODY REMEMBER HE MADE LIGHT AT THE ATTEMPT TO KIDNAP AND MAYBE ASSASSINATE HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT.

NOBODY REMEMBER HE MADE LIGHT OF AN ATTEMPT TO KIDNAP THE GOVERNOR OF MICHIGAN.

DONALD TRUMP HAS BEEN THE LEADING VOICE IN FAVOR OF VIOLENCE, ENJOYING VIOLENCE, DELIGHTING IN VIOLENCE, IN AMERICAN POLITICS IN THIS TIME.

AND WHILE EVERYONE IS GRATEFUL AND RELIEVED THAT THE VIOLENCE DID NOT TOUCH HIM AND THAT HIS LIFE WAS SPARED, AND THAT THIS ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT WAS DEFEATED, THAT'S ALL A VERY BLESSED THING, THAT SHOULD NOT BLIND US TO WHO HE IS AND WHAT HE STANDS FOR, AND WHAT HE HAS DONE.

>> SO, DEVIL'S ADVOCATE, OBVIOUSLY, BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT.

THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE, INCLUDING HIMSELF, WHO HAVE SAID THAT THIS EVENT LAST SATURDAY HAS CHANGED HIM.

HIS SON SAYS IT'S CHANGED HIM.

PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN AROUND HIM SAY HE LOOKS CHANGED.

HE SAYS HE'S CHANGING THE CONTENT OF HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, WHICH WILL BE ON THURSDAY NIGHT.

DOES HE DESERVE THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT AND SHOULD ONE RESERVE JUDGMENT UNTIL HE'S ACTUALLY SPOKEN?

>> AT THE AGE OF 78, AND AFTER A HALF CENTURY OF A CAREER AS ONE OF AMERICA'S LEADING COMMERCIAL FRAUDSTERS, I THINK CHANGE IS UNLIKELY.

AND, OF COURSE, TO THIS -- AT THIS MOMENT, HE IS EXALTING AND DELIGHTING AND GLOATING AND USING THIS EVENT THAT OUGHT TO BE A UNIFYING EVENT IN AN IMPROPER WAY.

>> WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> I MEAN -- WELL, A DIFFERENT KIND OF PERSON WOULD NOT HAVE ALLOWED HIS SURROGATES IMMEDIATELY TO PIN THE BLAME FOR THIS ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION ON HIS RIVAL.

HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT HAS SAID THIS WAS JOE BIDEN'S FAULT.

HE SAID THAT ON TWITTER OR X AS WE NOW CALL IT.

THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE FOR THAT, AND, INDEED, AS THE EVIDENCE HAS COME IN, THE SHOOTER LOOKS TO BE THE VERY FAMILIAR AMERICAN DISTURBED LONER SEEKING GLORY THROUGH CRIME AND BLOODSHED.

THAT LOOKS TO BE THE STORY.

A CANDIDATE FOR VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES SHOULD NOT BE QUICK TO ACCUSE OTHERS OF RESPONSIBILITY, CULPABILITY FOR SUCH A HEINOUS ACT, BUT THEY WERE.

THEY ARE UNCHANGED.

THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE.

DONALD TRUMP AT 78 IS NOT GOING TO BECOME A DIFFERENT HUMAN BEING.

>> DAVID FRUM, LET ME JUST ASK YOU ABOUT VANCE, BECAUSE YOU ACTUALLY KNOW HIM.

HE ACTUALLY USED TO WRITE FOR AN OLD WEBSITE OF YOURS.

SO, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW YOU VIEWED HIM THEN, AND HOW YOU VIEW HIM TODAY?

IS HE STILL THE SAME PERSON THAT YOU KNEW THEN?

>> WELL, WHEN I KNEW HIM, WHICH WAS QUITE AWHILE AGO, I THINK IT MAY HAVE BEEN HIS VERY FIRST BY-LINES.

FOR 15 YEARS, I KEPT THE SECRET OF THE PSEUDONYM WHEN HE REVEALED IT.

I ADMIRED HIM.

I THOUGHT HE HAD A HUGE POLITICAL FUTURE AHEAD OF HIM.

HIS ABILITIES ARE NOT IN QUESTION.

UNLIKE DONALD TRUMP AT THE HEAD OF THE TICKET, THERE IS NOTHING OF THE BUFFOON ABOUT J.D.

VANCE.

HE IS A FORMIDABLE, FORMIDABLE INTELLECT, A FORMIDABLE TALENT, A MAN OF GREAT SELF-DISCIPLINE AND A MAN OF GREAT AMBITION.

EVEN MORE THAN USUAL FOR POLITICIAN.

BUT WHERE HE IS DIFFERENT FROM MOST IS, HE'S A MAN OF EXTRAORDINARY MORAL AND INTELLECT CHUL SFLEXABILITY, TO PUT IT MILDLY.

HE'S CHANGED HIS MIND ON ISSUES, AND THE STORIES ARE NOT TRUE, AT LEAST THEY DON'T LINE UP WITH THE DATES.

FOR EXAMPLE, HE SAYS THE REASON HE'S SO IN FAVOR OF BETRAYING UKRAINE NOW IS BECAUSE OF HIS DISILLUSIONMENT WITH THE IRAQ WAR.

HE WAS WRITING FOR ME HALF A DECADE AFTER HE CAME BACK FOR MILITARY SERVICE AND HE WAS AN ADVOCATE OF TRADITIONAL AMERICAN GLOBAL LEADERSHIP.

THAT CHANGED SOMETIME AFTER.

AND PROBABLY WITHIN THE PAST TWO OR THREE YEARS, AS A RESULT OF OTHER FORCES THAN THE ONE HE MENTIONS.

>> FROM YOUR PIECE, YOU WRITE, WHEN HE GOT THE ENDORSEMENT RECENTLY OF REPRESENTATIVE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN, WHO FLOATED A CONSPIRACY THEORY ABOUT CALIFORNIA'S WILDFIRES BEING STARTLED BY SPACE LASERS ASSOCIATED WITH ROTHCHILD INC, HE, BEING VANCE, TWEETED, "HONORED TO HAVE MARJORIE'S ENDORSEMENT.

WE'RE GOING TO WIN THIS THING AND TAKE THE COUNTRY BACK FROM THE SCUM BAGS."

SO, YOU KNOW, TAKE THE COUNTRY BACK, WE OWN THE COUNTRY, THAT IS ALSO A VERY SORT OF SHOVE NISIC WAY OF LOOKING AT POLITICS, AS IF YOU'RE THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE COUNTRY.

SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK A J.D.

VANCE TODAY AND A TRUMP TODAY WILL DO WITH THE REPUBLICAN HE'S HIS HEIR.

IT'S GOING TO SHAPE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY FOR YEARS AND DECADES.

>> THE REPUBLICAN PARTY -- I BECAME A REPUBLICAN IN THE 1980s, BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN AMERICAN WORLD LEADERSHIP, BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN THE WORKINGS OF A FREE MARKET ECONOMY, BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN THE IMPART SHL RULE OF LAW, AND BECAUSE I BELIEVED IN -- IN COLLECTIVE SECURITY.

AND ALL THE DEMOCRACIES ARE STRONGER WHEN THEY STAND TOGETHER.

THOSE ARE THE CAUSES THAT LED ME IN THE LATE 1970s AT A TIME OF SOVIET ADVENTURISM TO FOLLOW PEOPLE LIKE GERALD FORD AND RONALD REAGAN AND GEORGE H.W.

BUSH.

WE NOW HAVE A PARTY THAT WANTS TO ABANDON UKRAINE.

TRUMP JUST IN THE PAST TWO DAYS SAID THAT HE WAS RECONSIDERING THE AMERICAN GUARANTEE TO TAIWAN, WOULD PUT THEM UP FOR BID.

THEY ASSURE US THAT THEY ARE STEADFAST FOR ISRAEL, BUT GIVEN THEIR CON ITEM WAS ATTITUDE, ALL ALLIES BY ISRAEL, I'M NOT SURE HOW COMFORTABLE AND CONFIDENT I WOULD BE IF I WAS SOMEONE WHO CARED ABOUT THE SECURITY OF ISRAEL, WHICH I AM.

>> AND WHAT ABOUT, AGAIN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOME OF THE OTHERS OF THE PARTY AND SOME OF THE OTHER THINGS YOU'VE SAID NEED TO BE PUT INTO CONTEXT.

FOR INSTANCE, WHAT HAPPENED ON, YOU KNOW, JANUARY 6th.

WE'RE GOING TO HEAR LATER IN THE PROGRAM, AN INTERVIEW WITH THE GOVERNOR OF NEW HAMPSHIRE, CHRIS SUNUNU, AND HE HAS DONE AN ABOUT-FACE, AS WELL.

HE BASICALLY CAME OUT EARLY, SAYING NO TRUMP, ONLY NIKKI HALEY, AND NOW HE'S SAYING, THE OPPOSITE, BUT MORE THAN THAT, HE SAID THAT JANUARY 6th IS NOT A DISQUALIFIER FOR THIS PARTICULAR HIGHER OFFICE.

HOW DO YOU REACT TO THAT?

>> IF THE ATTEMPT TO SEIZE POWER BY VIOLENCE IN A M THE SI -- THE ATTEMPT TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION, FIRST BY FRAUD, THEN BY VIOLENCE, IF THOSE AREN'T DISQUALIFIERS, IT'S HARD TO KNOW WHAT IS.

YOU CAN'T DISQUALIFY ANYBODY.

IN FACT, YOU WOULD ACCEPT ANYTHING.

I THINK WE ARE REALLY IN DANGER OF LOSING SIGHT OF THE ENORMITY OF THE JANUARY 6th EVENT.

A SERVING PRESIDENT TRIED TO ORGANIZE A MOB TO SACK CONGRESS, MAYBE KIDNAP THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE, MAYBE KIDNAP HIS OWN VICE PRESIDENT, MAYBE KILL THEM.

ALL IN ORDER TO STOP A COUNT THAT NO ONE HAD A LEGAL RIGHT TO STOP, THAT WOULD PREVENT THE WINNER OF THE ELECTION FROM CLAIMING THE PRESIDENCY AND INSTALL THE LOSER OF THE ELECTION AS PRESIDENT BY VIOLENCE.

YOU KNOW, I USED TO DO A LOT OF INAUGURATION DAY TV, AND -- NOT A BIG FISH IN THE WASHINGTON PUNDITRY PULL, AND WE WOULD ALL NATTER ON ABOUT THE AMERICAN PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER.

THE REASON WE TALK SO MUCH ABOUT THIS, ALLEGEDLY, BUT NOT TRUE, UNIQUE EVENT, IS BECAUSE ACTUALLY THE TRANSFER OF POWER IS A VERY FRAUGHT MOMENT IN THE UNITED STATES.

BUT YEAR AFTER YEAR, ADMINISTRATION AFTER ADMINISTRATION, DECADE AFTER DECADE, CENTURY AFTER CENTURY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE TERRIBLE EVENTS OF THE 1860s AND THE ATTEMPT TO REPEAT THEM IN THE 1870s, THE TRANSFER OF POWER WAS PEACEFUL, DESPITE THE DANGER IN THE AIR.

IN 2020 AND 2021, THAT DID NOT HAPPEN.

DONALD TRUMP BROKE THAT SACRED TRADITION.

AND THE CLOCK IS RESET.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT TRADITION ANYMORE.

WE'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS IN 2024, WHETHER HE TRIES VIOLENCE AGAIN.

>> I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT GUARDRAILS AND, THEY SAY, YOU KNOW, THAT THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION HAD EXPERIENCED PROFESSIONALS FOR THE MOST PART AROUND PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THEY SAY HE IS ON THE ROAD TO USING SORT OF A LOYALTY TEST TO NAME EITHER HIS CABINET OR THE CLOSEST ADVISERS.

SO, I WANT TO PLAY THIS LITTLE MASHUP OF THE RHETORIC ALREADY BEING SHOWN AT THE CONVENTION.

>> WE BECOME TOTALLY UNHINGED IF DONALD TRUMP IS NOT ELECTED IN NOVEMBER.

>> THEY WANT TO TEAR DOWN THOSE FOUNDATIONS AND REMOLD US INTO SOME SORT OF BORDERLESS, LAW LESS UTOPIA.

>> AMERICANS ARE DYING.

MURDERED, ASSAULTED, RAPED, BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT THE DEMOCRATS HAVE RELEASED.

>> THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY LIES IN RUINS.

THE WOKE MIND VIRUS IS DEAD.

>> SO, THAT WAS A SERIES OF SENATORS, YOU KNOW, CONGRESSPEOPLE, IT WAS TED CRUZ, RON DeSANTIS.

CNN HAS DONE FACT CHECKING ABOUT QUITE A LOT OF THE LIES THAT ARE BEING TALKED ABOUT THE DEMOCRATS AT THIS CONVENTION, BUT DOES THIS SOUND -- I MEAN, AMERICA BECOMES UNHINGED IF DONALD TRUMP IS NOT ELECTED IN NOVEMBER?

THAT'S JIM JUSTICE.

WHAT DOES THAT PORTEND TO YOU?

PARTICULARLY AT THIS TIME, WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT LOWERING THE TEMPERATURE, SHOWING UNITY.

>> THE IMPORTANT GUARDRAILS ON TRUMP'S FIRST PRESIDENCY WERE, HE'S UNFATHOMABLY LAZY.

HE DIDN'T KNOW HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKED.

AND HE WAS SURROUNDED BY PEOPLE THAT WEREN'T EAGER TO GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HELP HIM.

IF THE ORDERS WERE ILLEGAL, THEY WOULD NOT SUGGEST WAYS TO ACHIEVE WHAT HE WANTED TO DO IN SOME OTHER MORE LEGAL WAY.

THOSE GUARDRAILS ARE TRULY DOWN.

BECAUSE ALTHOUGH HE REMAINS LAZY, HE HAS A LIST OF THINGS THAT HE WANTS TO DO, WHICH HE DIDN'T THEN.

HIS MAIN GOAL BACK THEN WAS TO DIRECT TAXPAYER MONEY TO HIS OWN BUSINESSES.

THIS TIME, HE HAS AN AGENDA, AND IT'S REVENGE.

SECOND, HE DID LEARN SOMETHING OVER THOSE FOUR YEARS.

HE DOES KNOW HOW THE GOVERNMENT WORKS A LOT BETTER THAN HE DID BEFORE.

AND OVER THE INTERVAL, THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS CHANGED.

AND THERE ARE NOW PEOPLE WHO WILL WILLINGLY HELP HIM AND WILL EITHER EXECUTE ILLEGAL ORDERS AS J.D.

VANCE SAID HE WOULD, OR, ELSE, THEY WILL SHOW HIM WAYS TO ACHIEVE WHAT HE WANTS TO DO THAT ARE MORE LEGAL THAN THE WAYS HE CAN'T DO THINGS.

SO, IT'S GOING TO BE A VERY DIFFERENT FOUR YEARS OR HOWEVER LONG HE LASTS.

AND HOWEVER LONG HE LASTS BEFORE THERE'S ANOTHER IMPEACHMENT CRISIS.

>> DAVID FRUM, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US.

WITH ALL THATTEN COTEXT.

>> THANK YOU.

>>> AND LATER IN THE PROGRAM, AS WE SAID, YOU WILL HEAR FROM NEW HAMPSHIRE'S REPUBLICAN GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU, A NEVER-TRUMPER, THOUGH, AS DAVID FRUM SAYS, SOMETIMES YOU BECOME A TRUMPER.

HE'S TURNED FULL-THROATED DEFENDER.

>>> NOW, LET'S EXAMINE WHAT A SECOND TRUMP TERM MIGHT MEAN FOR THE ENVIRONMENT, FOR INSTANCE.

IF HE MAKES GOOD ON HIS PROMISES, THE CLIMATE EMERGENCY WILL BE PUSHED FURTHER DOWN THE AGENDA, AT A TIME WHEN ITS IMPACT HAS NEVER BEEN MORE VISIBLE.

OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS, TORRENTIAL RAINS AND FLASH FLOODS HAVE KILLED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE IN AFGHANISTAN, BANGLADESH, INDIA, AND NEPAL.

AND IN PARTS OF THE UNITED STATES AND THE CARIBBEAN, PEOPLE ARE PICKING UP THE PIECES AFTER HURRICANE BERYL.

THE EARLIEST CATEGORY 5 ATLANTIC HURRICANE ON RECORD.

AND AS SEA TEMPERATURES RISE, STRONGER STORMS ARE ALL BUT CERTAIN.

ONE OF THE WORST HIT WAS AGREE NAY DA IN THE CARIBBEAN, WHICH HAPPENS TO BE THE HOME OF THE U.N.

CLIMATE CHIEF SIMON STIELL.

HE JOINED ME FROM THERE TO TALK ABOUT THE DEVASTATING AFFECTS OF THE VERY CRISIS THAT HE'S TRYING TO GET THE WORLD TO SOLVE.

SIMON STIELL, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

>> HI, CHRISTIANE.

THANK YOU FOR GIVING ME THE OPPORTUNITY TO SHARE SOME OF WHAT I'VE JUST EXPERIENCED.

>> YOU ARE IN GRENADA, WHICH IS BASICALLY HOME TO YOU.

WHAT DID BERYL DO TO THAT AREA?

>> THIS IS MY HOME, THIS IS WHERE MY FAMILY ARE, THIS IS WHERE MY FAMILY LIVES, AND JUST RETURNING TO SEE THE LEVEL OF DEVASTATION IS ABSOLUTELY HEARTBREAKING, CHRISTIANE.

JUST TO SEE THE BRUTALITY, THE VIOLENT DEVASTATION THAT BERYL IMPOSED ON THIS VERY, VERY TIGHT-KNIT COMMUNITY.

JUST TO SEE TWISTED, MANGLED HOMES, INFRASTRUCTURE, VEGETATION, I MEAN, IT WAS ALMOST -- ALMOST APOCALYPTIC.

>> I MEAN, EVEN -- AND HERE YOU ARE, THE U.N.

CLIMATE OFFICIAL, AND YOU COULDN'T EVEN SPEAK TO FAMILY, RIGHT?

YOU WERE DISCONNECTED AT THE HEIGHT OF BERYL, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND CONNECTIONS WERE WIPED OUT?

>> IT TOOK 24 HOURS BEFORE WE ACTUALLY RECEIVED CONTACT FROM THOSE CLOSEST TO US.

I HAD AN AUNT, IT WAS THREE DAYS BEFORE THEY WERE ABLE TO CUT THEIR WAY THROUGH THE VEGETATION TO -- TO FIND HER ALIVE IN HER HOME.

BUT IT WAS A PERIOD OF GREAT ANGUISH, WAITING TO HEAR FROM LOVED ONES, AND KNOWING THEY WERE SAFE.

THERE WERE LIVES LOST.

SO FAR, THE DEATH COUNT IS SIX LIVES LOST, BUT WHEN YOU SEE THE LEVEL OF DEVASTATION, 98% OF BUILDINGS, OF PROPERTY, EITHER DESTROYED OR DAMAGED.

>> SO, SIMON, HOW -- HOW DO YOU THINK -- HOW DO YOU THINK ISLANDS LIKE GRENADA, THOSE THAT WERE WORST HIT, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT RICH NATIONS, THEY'RE CARIBBEAN ISLANDS, THEY'RE VULNERABLE, HOW DO THEY -- HOW DOES YOUR ISLAND THERE, HOW DOES IT REBUILD?

>> GOVERNMENTS IN THESE VULNERABLE DEVELOPING COUNTRIES CAN ONLY DO SO MUCH THEMSELVES.

THEY HAVE SUCH LIMITED FISCAL SPACE.

THEY'RE HEAVILY DEBT-BURDENED.

THEY DON'T HAVE THE FINANCIAL MEANS TO CONTINUE TO BORROW AND -- BORROW TO REBUILD JUST FOR WHAT THEY'VE REBUILT TO BE CLIMATE-RELATED DISASTER.

SO, THE ONLY WAY COUNTRIES, ISLANDS SUCH AS THOSE IMPACTED NOW CAN GET THROUGH THIS IS THROUGH INTERNATIONAL SUPPORT, THROUGH INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION.

THESE ARE THE SAME VOICES OF OTHER VULNERABLE COMMUNITIES ALL AROUND THE WORLD.

>> PRECISELY.

>> WE'VE JUST HEARD RECENTLY, WE'VE HEARD INDIA, THOUSANDS OF DEATHS DUE TO EXTREME HEAT.

1,300 DIED RECENTLY IN THE HAJJ TO MECCA.

IN KENYA, THEY'VE GONE FROM YEARS OF DEBILITATING DROUGHT, JUST DECIMATED ITS AGRICULTURAL SECTOR FROM DROUGHT, TO SEVERE FLOODS, AGAIN, COSTING DOZENS OF LIVES, HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS DISPLACED.

AND JUST TWO YEARS AGO, A THIRD OF PAKISTAN WAS UNDER WATER, AGAIN, THOUSANDS LOST THEIR LIVES, MILLIONS DISPLACED.

AND CLOSER TO YOUR AUDIENCE, NORTH AMERICA, CANADA, WILDFIRES.

AGAIN, DECIMATING VAST LAND MASSES, SOUTHERN EUROPE.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE ARE THE DEVASTATING IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE AFFECTING EVERY REGION, EVERY COUNTRY, FROM THE RICHEST TO THE POOREST.

>> THE QUESTION IS, ARE WE MOVING FORWARD TO COMBAT CLIMATE CHANGE, OR ARE -- IS IT ONE STEP FORWARD, SEVERAL STEPS BACK?

I MEAN, PUT IT INTO CONTEXT THEN, BECAUSE IT CAN'T BE JUST BAILING OUT A COUNTRY EVERY TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS HAPPENS.

THAT'S NOT SUSTAINABLE.

>> WE ARE MOVING FORWARD.

AND THE GLOBAL STATEMENT THAT CONCLUDED IN COP 25 LAST YEAR HIGHLIGHTED PROGRESS MADE, BUT THE CLEAR MESSAGE, CLEAR MESSAGE IS NOT ENOUGH IS BEING DONE, AND WHAT IS BEING DONE IS NOT BEING DONE FAST ENOUGH.

>> LET'S TAKE THE UNITED STATES, WHICH IS ONE OF THOSE COUNTRIES WHICH IS HAVING ITS POLITICAL SEASON RIGHT NOW, AND AS WE KNOW, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, OR THE TRUMP PEOPLE, HAVE INDICATED THAT THEY WANT FURTHER DEREGULATION, THAT THEY'RE NOT INTERESTING IN BOLSTERING THE CLIMATE CHANGE MISSION OF THE EPA AND THEY ARE MUCH MORE FRIENDLY TO FOSSIL FUEL COMPANIES.

YOU SAW WHAT HAPPENED DURING THE FIRST TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK MIGHT HAPPEN IF AMERICA IS LED BY THIS -- THIS, YOU KNOW, GROUP AGAIN?

>> WELL, IT'S NOT MY ROLE TO PROVIDE POLITICAL COMMENTARY ON INDIVIDUAL COUNTRIES, BUT MY MESSAGE TO ALL COUNTRIES, AND ESPECIALLY THOSE WITHIN THE -- THE G20 IS THAT EVEN THE LARGEST, MOST DEVELOPED COUNTRIES ARE BEING HAMMERED BY THE IMPACTS OF CLIMATE CHANGE.

NO ONE IS UNAFFECTED.

BUT ALSO, THERE IS A -- EVERYONE BENEFITS FROM BOLD CLIMATE ACTION.

AND THE INEVITABILITY OF DECARBONIZATION IS HERE.

THE TRANSITION TO RENEWABLES IS GATHERING PACE.

NOT YET AT THE TIPPING POINT THAT ARE NECESSARY TO GET US TO WHERE WE NEED TO BE, BUT THERE IS EXPONENTIAL GROWTH IN -- IN THE TRANSFORMATION.

AND THIS TRANSFORMATION OFFERS ALL COUNTRIES THE OPPORTUNITY, THE GREATEST COMMERCIAL OPPORTUNITY OF OUR TIME.

>> SO, I KNOW YOU DON'T WANT TO WEIGH IN POLITICALLY, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT.

ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE MUST BE MODELS THAT YOU LOOK AT.

FOR INSTANCE, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND THE EU PUT CLIMATE -- COMBATTING CLIMATE CHANGE AT THE HEART, IN OTHER WORDS, GREEN POLICIES AT THE HEART OF THEIR POST-COVID ECONOMIC REVIVALS.

HAS THAT WORKED?

IS THAT A MODEL?

>> THOSE MODELS ARE WORKING.

IF WE SEE THE TRANSITION THAT IS TAKING PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES RIGHT NOW, TO BE SPECIFIC.

AND THE POSITIVE IMPACTS OF THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT, WHICH IS THE CENTER POLICY PIECE FOR THE U.S.'S TRANSITION.

IT IS WORKING.

THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE OF THE ACCELERATION AND THE SPEED OF TRANSITION TO RENEWABLES, AND THE BENEFITS, THE BENEFITS, NOT ONLY IN TERMS OF HOW THAT CONTRIBUTES DIRECTLY TO -- AND TO REDUCING EMISSIONS, BUT ALSO, IN TERMS OF CREATING NEW GREEN JOBS AND STIMULATING THE ECONOMY.

GREEN DEAL.

AND SEEING HOW, AGAIN, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH RENEWABLES, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH E LECTRIC VEHICLES, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH OTHER TECHNOLOGIES, WE'RE SEEING THOSE POSITIVE IMPACTS.

>> SO, LET ME JUST POINT OUT, BECAUSE WE HAVE TO, COUNTRIES SUCH AS THE ONE I'M IN, THE UK, EVEN GERMANY, THEY'VE ROLLED BACK OR AT LEAST DELAYED SOME OF THEIR CLIMATE MEASURES.

NOW, WE HAVE A NEW GOVERNMENT, OBVIOUSLY, IN THE UK, BUT NONETHELESS, THE WHOLE MONEY ISSUE IS -- IS CAUSING A BIG PROBLEM.

YOU CORRECTLY POINT OUT A RECENT GALLUP SURVEY SAYS 89% OF PEOPLE IN 125 COUNTRIES WANT STRONGER CLIMATE ACTION BY GOVERNMENTS, YET IT SEEMS LOW DOWN AS A POLITICAL PRIORITY.

AND YOU'VE ALSO SAID, IN YOUR CHATHAM HOUSE ADDRESS, TWO YEARS TO SAVE THE WORLD.

SO, PUT ALL THAT TOGETHER AND -- AND TRY TO, WELL, TELL ME, DO WE HAVE TWO YEARS?

IS THE POLITICAL WILL THERE?

IS THE ACCELERATED ACTION THERE TO DO WHAT YOU SAY NEEDS TO BE DONE?

>> THAT IS WHAT IS BEING TESTED RIGHT NOW.

AND WE ALWAYS SPEAK, AND IT'S BECOME A BIT OF A KOLO KWEE Y'ALLISM, POLITICAL WILL, BUT IT IS A POLITICAL WILL THAT WILL DRIVE THROUGH THE NECESSARY ACTIONS THAT ARE REQUIRED, ARE EXPECTED OVER THE COURSE OF THIS YEAR.

WE KNOW THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT AS HIGH UP THAT AGENDA AS IT NEEDS TO BE.

AND WE SEEM TO BE IN A WORLD THAT CAN ONLY GO AND DEAL WITH ONE CRISIS AT A TIME.

>> UH-HUH.

>> AND WE'RE IN A MULTI-CRISES SITUATION, WHERE CLIMATE CHANGE -- CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACTS ALL ASPECTS OF OUR ECONOMY, ALL ASPECTS OF NATIONAL SECURITY, ALL ASPECTS OF OUR SOCIETY, AND OUR PHYSICAL EXISTENCE.

SO, DRIVING THIS UP THE -- THE POLITICAL AGENDA, AND LISTENING TO THOSE VOICES OF THOSE ADVOCATING FOR -- FOR GREATER CLIMATE ACTION, AND BEING RESPECTFUL OF THOSE VOICES OF THE MOST VULNERABLE WHO ARE CALLING OUT FOR HELP AND FOR RELIEF FROM THIS CLIMATE CRISIS, REALLY, REALLY NEED TO BE REFLECTED IN THOSE ACTIONS.

>> VERY VIVIDLY AND CONVININGLY PUT.

SIMON STIELL, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

>>> AND RETURNING NOW TO THE POLITICS OF ALL OF THIS, FOR YEARS, DONALD TRUMP WAS A FORCE OF UNITY AMONGST SYSTEMS ANDY VGS AMONG REPUBLICANS, BUT NOW THE TABLES HAVE TURNED.

FEW UNDERSTAND THE GOP TRANSFORMATION BETTER THAN OUR NEXT GUEST.

AFTER SERVING AS ONE OF NIKKI HALEY'S MOST VOCAL ADVOCATES DURING THE PRIMARIES, LIKE HER, THE NEW HAMPSHIRE GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU IS NOW BACKING FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

AND HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO EXPLAIN WHY.

>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

AND GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> WELL, THANKS.

THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK.

>> AFTER THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT ON FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT BIDEN CALLED ON EVERYBODY TO TONE DOWN THE RHETORIC, TO COOL THINGS DOWN.

AND SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON, THE REPUBLICAN SPEAKER SAID JUST ABOUT THE SAME THING.

HOW DO WE DO THAT?

HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

>> WELL, LOOK, IT WAS GREAT TO SEE WITHIN THAT FIRST 48 HOURS BOTH SIDES, EVERYONE SAYING, OKAY, THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS BEEN POLARIZING, IT'S BEEN EXTREME, AND OBVIOUSLY WITH THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, AS AWFUL AS THAT WAS, MAYBE THERE WAS AN OPPORTUNITY TO HIT A RESET BUTTON THERE, GET BACK TO ISSUES, GET BACK TO TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT REALLY MATTER TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

NOW, THE MEDIA CAN DO THAT, ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN DO THAT, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT ONLY HAPPENS WHEN ALL OF US DO IT.

ALL 350 MILLION AMERICANS, AS PARENTS, A COWORKERS, AS FRIENDS AND NEIGHBORS, THAT WE TONE DOWN OUR RHETORIC AS A WHOLE.

IT HAS TO BE A CULTURAL CHANGE.

IT'S NOT EASY TO DO.

I THINK IT'S GREAT THAT IT STARTS WITH LEADERSHIP.

I'M A LITTLE NERVOUS, EVEN IN JUST SOME OF THE RHETORIC I STARTED SEEING YESTERDAY, THE ATTACKS ON J.D.

VANCE, BACK TO SAYING THESE GUYS ARE A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY AND ALL OF THAT SORT OF THING.

THAT'S THE TYPE OF RHETORIC THAT GETS REALLY POLARIZING, IT GETS AWAY FROM ISSUES, IT GETS AWAY FROM THE ELECTION.

AND I THINK A LOT OF FOLKS SAY, WE HAVE OUR DIFFERENCES, LET'S TALK ABOUT THOSE.

WE BOTH WANT A GREAT, SOLID AMERICA ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE.

WE BOTH HAVE DIFFERENT PATHWAYS TO GET THERE.

LET'S TALK ABOUT THOSE PATHWAYS.

LET'S DO AN ELECTION THE WAY ELECTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE, AND NOT TALK ABOUT THESE THREATS TO AMERICA, THESE THREATS TO DEMOCRACY, HOW EVIL EACH SIDE IS.

NO ONE'S EVIL HERE, RIGHT?

THEY'RE JUST FIGHTING A GOOD FIGHT TO HOPEFULLY GET THEIR POLICIES TO GET AMERICAN INTO A BETTER PLACE.

BUT AGAIN, I GO BACK TO THE HEART OF YOUR QUESTION, IT'S INCUMBENT UPON ALL OF US AS INDIVIDUALS TO KIND OF CARRY THAT RESPONSIBILITY, NOT FOR THE NEXT FEW MONTHS, BUT REALLY, INTO PERPETUITY, REALLY SETS THAT EXAMPLE FOR THE ENTIRE NEXT GENERATION THAT'S WATCHING US VERY CLOSELY.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT HOW POLITICIANS ARE SAYING THEY WANT TO LOWER THE RHETORIC, AND ALREADY, THEY'RE NOT DOING SO.

EVEN ON J.D.

VANCE, WHO USED TO BE SOMEBODY WHO WAS A GREAT UNIFIER WHEN HE WROTE "HILLBILLY ELEGY," I THINK PEOPLE FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE SAID, I GET SOMETHING INTERESTING IN THERE, BUT NOW HE'S BEEN SAYING THINGS LIKE THE CENTRAL PREMISE OF THE BIDEN CAMPAIGN IS THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP IS A FASCIST AND MUST BE STOPPED AT ALL COSTS.

THAT RHETORIC LED DIRECTLY TO PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION.

BUT HE'S SOMEBODY WHO ALSO CALLED TRUMP AN AMERICAN HITLER.

HE WAS MUCH MORE OF A NON-TRUMPER THAN EVEN YOU WERE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF HIM AS A CHOICE?

>> I THINK HE'S A GREAT CHOICE.

I DO.

LOOK.

LET'S START IN THE VERY BEGINNING.

HIS BACKGROUND IS PHENOMENAL, IN THAT HE HAD A REALLY TOUGH SITUATION GROWING UP.

HE DEALT WITH A LOT OF REAL ISSUES THAT A LOT OF AMERICANS ARE DEALING WITH.

AND HIS FAMILY, THE CHALLENGES OF DRUGS AND MENTAL HEALTH AND POVERTY AND ALL THESE THINGS.

THEY MADE A MOVIE ABOUT HIS LIFE EVEN BEFORE HE WAS A U.S.

SENATOR.

HE'S OBVIOUSLY A MARINE, THAT'S INCREDIBLE.

HE'S INCREDIBLY SMART.

HE WENT TO YALE, SO, HE'S GOT THE BRAINS FOR THE JOB.

THAT'S FOR DARN SURE.

HE'S A U.S.

SENATOR, BUT HE'S ONLY BEEN THERE ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF.

HE'S NOT AN INSIDER TO WASHINGTON, RIGHT?

SO, THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY, HE KIND OF BRINGS THAT DISRUPTION A LITTLE BIT.

HE'S NOT GOING TO DO IT AND HASN'T DONE IT LIKE FOLKS HAVE BEEN IN WASHINGTON FOR DECADES AND DECADES.

SO, HE HAS THAT OUTSIDER PERSPECTIVE, WHICH IS VERY REFRESHING, I THINK, TO A LOT OF AMERICANS.

AND FRANKLY, HE'S JUST A REALLY NICE GUY.

HE'S A VERY, VERY NICE GUY.

HE'S HAD DIFFERENCES WITH TRUMP IN THE PAST, AS I HAVE.

I THINK MOST FOLKS ARE AT SOME POINT.

I MEAN, KAMALA HARRIS HAS HAD SOME PRETTY AMAZING DIFFERENCES WITH JOE BIDEN IN HER PAST, I MEAN, IF YOU GO BACK TO THAT DEBATE, WHERE SHE TORE JOE BIDEN APART.

>> WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT RHETORIC LIKE AMERICAN HITLER.

>> AH, WELL, SHE SAID -- I MEAN, SHE CALLED HIM OUT ON RACE, SHE CALLED HIM OUT ON BUSSING.

SHE CALLED HIM OUT ON BEING FRIENDS WITH SEGREGATIONISTS, AND THEN SHE DECIDED TO BE HIS RUNNING MATE.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A PARTNERSHIP -- A PARTNERSHIP FOR LIFE GOING INTO THE SITUATION, BUT CLEARLY TRUMP AND J.D.

HAVE FOUND THEIR FRIENDSHIP, THEIR PARTNERSHIP.

I THINK THEY UNDERSTAND WHAT THEY EACH BRING SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT TO THE TABLE.

THEY EACH HAVE DIFFERENT SKILLS THEY CAN BRING TO THE TABLE.

AND FOR THAT, I THINK IT'S A GREAT TICKET.

>> LET ME TALK ABOUT J.D.

VANCE FOR A SECOND, BECAUSE I THINK HE REPRESENTS AND SOLIDIFIES THE HOLD OF A CERTAIN WING OF THE PARTY, THE MORE POPULIST, MORE NATIONALIST WING, ONE THAT DOESN'T REALLY SUPPORT NATO THAT MUCH, ANTI-CORPORATE.

THERE'S ANOTHER WING OF THE PARTY, WHICH I ASSOCIATE YOU WITH, WITH PAUL RYAN WITH AND OTHERS, WHICH I'D JUST CALL TRADITIONAL CONSERVATISM.

YOU CAN CORRECT MY LABELS IF YOU WANT.

DO YOU SEE THE SELECTION OF VANCE AS MOVING THE PARTY AND TRUMPISM DOWN THAT ROAD ON TOWARDS POPULIST NATIONALISM, RATHER THAN THE MORE TRADITIONAL SMALL GOVERNMENT, SMALL SPENDING CONSERVATISM?

>> NO, NO.

I -- LOOK, I -- LOOK, BOTH PARTIES, AND I'LL JUST SPEAK TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, WE DON'T HAVE MODERATES AND -- THERE'S A WHOLE SPECTRUM.

THERE'S A WHOLE SPECTRUM IN OUR PARTY OF PHILOSOPHY AND PLATFORM POSITIONS AND WHERE THEY WANT TO GO, BOTH ON DOMESTIC ISSUES, ON GOVERNANCE, ON KIND OF THE CIVICS THAT YOU WANT TO SEE WITHIN GOVERNMENT.

I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND LIMITED GOVERNMENT, LOCALIZED CONTROL.

AND THEN, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THE ASPECTS OF WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO INTERNATIONALLY AND THE ROLE OF AMERICA THAT WE NEED TO PLAY INTERNATIONALLY AND WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENCES THERE, EVEN AMONGST REPUBLICANS.

NO, I DON'T THINK HE REPRESENTS -- THE PARTY GOING IN ONE DIRECTION OR NOT.

YOU KNOW, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, I THINK HE'S DOING VERY WELL, MY GUESS IS -- IF I WAS A BETTING MAN, HE'S GOING TO BE WINNING IN NOVEMBER AND BE THE NEXT PRESIDENT.

HE'S THE SPOKESPERSON FOR THE PARTY, J.D.

IS PART OF THAT NOW.

BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEIR PHILOSOPHIES AND PRINCIPLES REPRESENT EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN ACROSS THE BOARD, AND THAT'S OKAY.

NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

IT CAN BE A LOT OF DIFFERENT POINTS OF VIEW, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHAT YOU REALLY WANT IS TO HAVE A PRESIDENT AND VICE PRESIDENT THAT UNDERSTAND THEIR ROLES, THEY CAN WORK AS A TEAM, WORK WITH STATES, WORK WITH CONGRESS, HOPEFULLY FIND MORE EFFICIENCIES IN GOVERNMENT, KEEP AMERICA STRONG THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, YOU CAN HAVE DIFFERENT STRATEGIES IN HOW TO DO THAT.

BUT I'M A FIRM BELIEVER THAT WORLD PEACE COMES THROUGH AMERICA'S STRENGTH, AND YOU HAVE TO SUPPORT YOUR ALLIES AND YOU HAVE TO PUT FEAR IN YOUR ENEMIES.

I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO KIND OF ENHANCE THAT A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP DID IT VERY WELL IN HIS FIRST TERM.

THERE'S NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, ON THE INTERNATIONAL SIDE.

AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET BACK TO KIND OF, YOU KNOW, BRINGING SOME OF THE PEACE THAT FOLKS WANT TO SEE WORLDWIDE, BOTH IN UKRAINE, AND SPECIFICALLY IN ISRAEL.

>> I'M SURE YOU'LL REMEMBER, YOU WERE ON THE SHOW WITH ME, ALMOST EXACTLY A YEAR AGO, AND YOU SAID, WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE DONALD TRUMP AND THE -- ISN'T THE NOMINEE, BECAUSE HE CAN'T WIN.

YOU SAID HE JUST CAN'T MATHEMATICALLY WIN IN 2024.

WHAT MADE YOUR THINKING EVOLVE?

>> YEAH, WELL, MY GOODNESS, I MEAN, I FIRMLY BELIEVED IT A YEAR AGO, BUT I WAS WRONG.

I WAS DEAD WRONG ON THAT.

SO MUCH HAS CHANGED.

RIGHT?

I THINK A LOT OF US ASSUMED THAT THE TRIALS WOULD HAVE SOME IMPACT.

IT DIDN'T.

THE TRIALS OF DONALD TRUMP HAVE BEEN SO MISHANDLED BY THE DEMOCRATS, BOTH IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATION, THE REALITY, YOU KNOW, OF EACH OF THE TRIALS.

JACK SMITH SCREWING THE MAR-A-LAGO TRIAL UP.

THE FANI WILLIS AND ALL THE SHENANIGANS GOING ON IN GEORGIA, ALL THE ISSUES THAT HAPPENED WITH TRUMP'S TRIAL.

IT'S NOT HURTING HIS NUMBERS AT ALL, BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS ARE BEING EXPOSED FOR A LOT OF THE POLITICALIZATION THAT THEY WERE DRIVING ON WITH A LOT OF THOSE -- A LOT OF THOSE ISSUES.

AND IT'S NOT JUST CHRIS SUNUNU SAYING THAT, AMERICA SAW IT.

HIS POLL NUMBERS WENT UP EVERY TIME HE WENT INTO A COURTROOM.

THAT'S THE REALITY.

THE DEMOCRATS WERE THAT -- BUNGLED THOSE ISSUED THAT BADLY.

>> WELL, WAIT, WAIT.

DO YOU THINK IT'S SIMPLY THE DEMOCRATS THAT MADE HIM POPULAR?

DO YOU THINK THAT HAD THERE NOT BEEN THESE THINGS, HE WOULD HAVE LOST?

>> OH, NO.

THE DEMOCRATS PUT ALL THEIR EGGS IN THE BASKET OF THOSE TRIALS, THINKING THAT WAS GOING TO END DONALD TRUMP, AND BECAUSE -- AND WHY?

BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT INFLATION, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE BORDER.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE STRUGGLES OF THE COST OF LIVING THAT EVERY AMERICAN HAS.

SO, THEY TRIED TO MAKE IT ABOUT THIS BIGGER EXISTENTIAL THING.

AND HOW DONALD TRUMP IS A THREAT TO AMERICA AND A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

AND NO ONE'S BUYING IT.

NO ONE'S BUYING IT UP AND DOWN.

AND THE MORE WE SAW THESE TRIALS GET MISHANDLED AND ALL THE OTHER SHENANIGANS THAT WERE GOING ON WITH THEM, THE MORE THE LIBERAL MEDIA TRIPLED DOWN ON THAT ASPECT, IT BLEW UP IN THEIR FACES.

AND JUST PUT MORE WIND IN THE SAILS OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP.

THE OTHER ISSUE, LET'S REMEMBER, TRUMP WON THE PRIMARIES, RIGHT?

I TRIED REALLY HARD, YOU KNOW, FOR NIKKI HALEY.

WE HAD A LOT OF OTHER REALLY GREAT CANDIDATES OUT THERE, OBVIOUSLY, BUT UNLIKE JOE BIDEN, DONALD TRUMP AND NIKKI HALEY WENT THROUGH STATES, WENT THROUGH THE PRIMARIES, WENT THROUGH THE CAMPAIGNS, AND THE VOTERS HAD THEIR SAY.

EVERYONE SAID, OKAY, WE FOUGHT IT OUT THE RIGHT WAY, EVERYONE HAD THEIR SHOT, THEY VOTED FOR TRUMP, WE'RE GOING TO GET BEHIND TRUMP AND EVERYONE IS GETTING BEHIND HIM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT PRIMARIES ARE.

YOU FIGHT IT OUT HARD AND YOU GALVANIZE.

THE DEMOCRATS TRIED TO CORE NATE.

AND THEY TRIED TO TELL YOU THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH JOE BIDEN, THAT EVERYTHING WAS JUST FINE, WE'RE GOING TO TRY TO SKIP THE FIRST IN THE NATION PRIMARY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE.

WEN'T DO NEED TO HAVE REAL CHALLENGERS HERE, AND NOW LOOK AT WHERE THEY ARE.

IT'S -- AGAIN, BLOWN UP IN THEIR FACES.

AND THAT'S THEIR DOING.

THAT'S 100% THEIR DOING.

IT'S COMPLETELY ON THEM.

SO, AT THE END OF THE DAY, ALL OF THEIR ATTEMPTS TO, QUOTE, THWART DONALD TRUMP AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT ISSUES AND FINDING BETTER SOLUTIONS AND DOING ELECTIONS THE RIGHT WAY, THEY TRIED TO DO IT THIS KIND OF DIFFERENT WAY, THIS EXISTENTIAL WAY, AS I LIKE TO SAY, IT'S BLOWN UP IN THEIR FACE.

SO, YES, THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT DONALD TRUMP IS IN A MUCH STRONGER POSITION TODAY THAN HE HAS BEEN IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS.

HE'S GOT ALL THE WIND AT HIS SAILS.

THE DEMOCRATS ARE IN COMPLETE DISARRAY.

WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AT THAT CONVENTION.

YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF JOE BIDEN, IN EVERY SINGLE INTERVIEW, ALL OF HIS SUPPORTERS ARE PRAYING HE CAN JUST ANSWER A QUESTION.

>> YOU'VE JUST SAID THAT THE DEMOCRATS MISPLAYED THIS BY MAKING IT SEEM LIKE IT WAS EXISTENTIAL, LIKE A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

DONALD TRUMP SAID HE WOULD PARDON PEOPLE WHO WERE INVOLVED IN THE ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th.

YOU CALLED THESE PEOPLE WHO DID THAT DOMESTIC TERRORISTS.

YOU SAID THAT TRUMP, QUOTE, ABSOLUTELY CONTRIBUTED TO THIS INSURRECTION.

AND, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW WHAT MIKE PENCE SAID AND MIKE PENCE SAID HE COULDN'T IN GOOD CONSCIENCE DO IT, BECAUSE OF THIS THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

DO YOU NOT SEE WHY PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT THIS THREAT TO OUR ORDERLY TRANSFER OF POWER THAT JANUARY 6th REPRESENTED?

>> SURE, SO, LOOK, I STICK BY, I DON'T THINK ANY OF THOSE FOLKS SHOULD BE PARDONED.

I'M NOT GOING TO BE PRESIDENT, NOT GOING TO BE MY DECISION.

IF THAT COMES TO BE, I MEAN, THAT WOULD BE THE PRESIDENT'S DECISION TO DO THAT.

I DISAGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK THOSE FOLKS NEED TO, YOU KNOW, BE PUNISHED, BECAUSE WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th WAS ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE.

THE DIFFERENCE IS, I -- YOU DON'T SEE JANUARY 6th, I DON'T LIKE IT, EVERYONE HATED WHAT WE SAW THAT DAY.

THERE WAS NO DOUBT THAT I, YOU KNOW, FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, AS I SAID BEFORE, HIS WORDS DEFINITELY HAD AN IMPACT ON WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th, EVERYBODY SAW THAT.

I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S NOT A DISQUALIFIER.

AND I THINK TOO MANY FOLKS ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE SAY, BUT THAT HAS TO BE A DISQUALIFIER, IT'S NOTE.

AND WHAT YOU HAVE, I'LL CALL THIS LIBERAL ELITE THAT'S SAYING, BUT JANUARY 6th HAPPENED, SO, WE JUST CAN'T VOTE FOR HIM.

BUT EVERY AMERICAN HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF PRIORITIES.

SOME AMERICANS ARE GETTING CRUSHED BY INFLATION.

THEIR CREDIT CARD DEBT IS THROUGH THE ROOF, THEY CAN BARELY PAY THE RENT.

AND THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SAY, I NEED A CHANGE OUT OF WASHINGTON BECAUSE I NEED MORE OPPORTUNITY FOR MY FAMILY.

AND THEY SHOULDN'T BE JUDGED ON THAT.

AND YOU HAVE DEMOCRATS ALL OVER THIS COUNTRY, THE LIBERAL ELITE, AS YOU CALL THEM, JUDGING AMERICA BECAUSE THEY HAVE -- MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT SET OF PRIORITIES.

AND THAT'S A FUNDAMENTALLY UN-AMERICAN.

AND IT JUST TICKS PEOPLE OFF.

>> WELL, WAIT, YOU CALL IT THE LIBERAL ELITE, BUT THE STRONGEST VOICE, TO ME, IS MICHAEL PENCE.

>> NO.

NO.

PENCE IS -- LOOK.

PENCE IS NOT OUT THERE EVERY DAY WITH THE LIBERAL MEDIA TELLING FOLKS THAT TRUMP IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO AMERICA.

HE'S SAYING, I'M NOT GOING TO SUPPORT HIM, I CAN'T GET BEHIND HIM.

AND HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO DO THAT.

GOD BLESS MIKE PENCE.

HE'S EARNED THE RIGHT TO SAY AND DO WHATEVER HE WANTS, AS HAS EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN IN THIS COUNTRY.

THE PROBLEM I HAVE WITH THE LIBERAL ELITE IS THEY'RE JUDGING PEOPLE.

THEY'RE JUDGING PEOPLE FOR THE PRIORITIES.

SOME PEOPLE THINK THE BORDER IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE.

THAT IT'S A HUGE DOMESTIC, POTENTIAL DOMESTIC AND TERRORIST THREAT COMING ACROSS THE BORDER, AND I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I AGREE WITH THAT.

I THINK IT'S ONE OF THE TOP TWO ISSUES IN THE COUNTRY, BUT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS DONE NOTHING, SO, PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE DEMAND A CHANGE.

WE DON'T LIKE JANUARY 6th, WE DON'T LIKE ELECTION DENIAL, BUT WE NEED A CHANGE.

GOING BACK TO YOUR QUESTION, ALL WE'VE HEARD OUT OF THE LIBERAL MEDIA AND THE LIBERAL ELITE ARE, YEAH, BUT JANUARY 6th AND THESE TRIALS.

JANUARY 6th AND THESE TRIALS.

THEY'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT REAL AMERICANS WANT TO TALK ABOUT.

AND THAT'S WHY REPUBLICANS ARE DOING SO WELL, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT REAL ISSUES.

THEY'RE PUTTING REAL IDEAS ON THE TABLE.

THEY'RE ENGAGING IN THE CONVERSATION IN THE RIGHT WAY AS ELECTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE DONE.

AND SO, THE DEMOCRATS, AGAIN, HAVE PUT ALL THEIR MARBLES IN, YOU KNOW, TALKING ABOUT TRIALS AND A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY.

I MEAN, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE THREAT TO DEMOCRACY HERE.

THINK OF ALL THE FOLKS THAT VOTED FOR JOE BIDEN, THEY DID SO, I DIDN'T DO IT, BUT THEY DID SO THINKING THAT HE WAS GOING TO BE MAKING DECISIONS FOR THIS COUNTRY.

IS HE?

CLEARLY NOT.

CLEARLY HE'S NOT MAKING DECISIONS ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS FOR THIS COUNTRY.

SO, EVERYONE VOTED FOR SOMEONE, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU WHO IS ACTUALLY MAKING THOSE DECISIONS.

THAT IS VERY UNDEMOCRATIC, RIGHT?

THAT'S NOT THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.

VOTE FOR SOMEONE, BUT DON'T WORRY, SOMEONE ELSE IS GOING TO BE IN CHARGE AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHO IT IS.

I MEAN, REALLY.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHO IS MAKING ALL THE DAY-TO-DAY DECISIONS OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE RIGHT NOW?

NO.

AT LEAST WITH TRUMP, YOU MIGHT NOT AGREE WITH HIS POSITIONS, WE DON'T LIKE HIS TWEETS, WE DON'T LIKE HIS PERSONALITY SOMETIMES, BUT AT LEAST YOU KNOW HE'S MAKING REAL DECISIONS FOR THE COUNTRY, AND WHERE THINGS ARE GOING AND YOU CAN HAVE A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHERE THAT IS.

BUT LITERALLY, THE DEMOCRATS ARE TRYING TO NOW GET BEHIND JEB JB, AND THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY GOT.

NONE OF US DO.

SO, THAT GETS PEOPLE -- THAT'S NOT A DISAGREEMENT OF IDEAS ANYMORE.

THAT'S JUST, WELL, WHAT ARE WE VOTING FOR?

WHO IS LITERALLY GOING TO BE IN CHARGE IF WE VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN?

BUT THE DEMOCRATS ARE SAYING, DON'T WORRY, IT'S JUST NOT TRUMP, THAT'S ALL YOU NEED TO WORRY ABOUT.

THAT'S A FAILED MESSAGE.

THAT'S A FAILED STRATEGY.

AND THE REASON IS, BECAUSE IT'S NOT SHOWING ANY RESPECT TO THE AMERICAN VOTER.

IT'S NOT SHOWING ANY RESPECT TO THE FACT THAT VOTERS CARE ABOUT IDEAS AND ISSUES AND POLICIES AND THINGS THAT WILL IMPACT THEIR FAMILIES.

IT'S JUST SAYING, TRUST US, IT'S NOT TRUMP.

AND I THINK THIS ALL PLAYS INTO A FAILED MASTER PLAN ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE THAT WE'RE JUST GOING TO BASH ON TRUMP, TELL PEOPLE HE'S SCARY, TELL PEOPLE HE'S GOING TO END AMERICA, THE THREAT TO DEMOCRACY, WE USE ALL THE BIG SCARY WORDS, AND BE SO POLARIZING AND SO FEARFUL OF HIM THAT AMERICA WILL HAVE NO DOUBT BUT NOT VOTE FOR HIM.

THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS, GUYS.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND J.D.

VANCE AGREE ON IS A NEED FOR HIGHER TARIFFS, STRONGER TARIFFS, PROTECT MANUFACTURING, THROUGH TARIFFS.

THAT'S AT ODDS WITH THE TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN, CONSERVATIVE THINKING.

TELL ME, HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT PEOPLE IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND DO YOU THINK THAT'S A GREAT IDEA?

>> WELL, LOOK, IT HAS ITS PROS AND CONS.

I DON'T THINK I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT.

I'M NOT AN INTERNATIONAL FINANCING EXPERT, PER SE.

I'M A BIG BELIEVER IN FREE TRADE.

I LOVE THE CONCEPT OF FREE TRADE, BUT AGAIN, SEEING THE FREE TRADE IMBALANCE THAT WE HAVE ACROSS THE WORLD IS, I THINK, DRIVING THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE SOME DIFFERENT DECISIONS ON TARIFFS, TO SAY, LOOK, IF YOU WHERE GOING TO TAX OUR GOODS AT X, WE'RE GOING TO TAX YOUR GOODS AT Y.

NOW, THAT CAN HAVE ITS PROS AND CONS.

AND A PLACE LIKE NEW HAMPSHIRE, WE DO A LOT OF INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS.

WE'RE A BIG DEFENSE INDUSTRY, OUR MANUFACTURING SIDE, TOURISM'S A BIG DEAL FOR US, SO, WE DEAL A LOT OVERSEAS SPECIFICALLY CANADA AND EUROPE.

WESTERN EUROPE, FOR THE MOST PART.

SO, WHAT HAPPENS IN CHINA, OBVIOUSLY, WILL EFFECT AMERICA AS A WHOLE BECAUSE SO MANY OF OUR PRODUCTS ARE BOUGHT THERE.

THAT CAN HAVE A TRICKLE EFFECT TO EUROPE, WHERE, AGAIN, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S A MORE BALANCED OPPORTUNITY THERE.

ANYTHING I CAN DO SO MY BUSINESSES CAN SELL PRODUCTS A LITTLE EASIER OUT OF EUROPE AND BE MORE COMPETITIVE WITH THE EUROPEAN PRODUCTS THAT ARE COMING IN HERE, THAT'S A WIN, RIGHT?

THAT HELPS OUR ECONOMY, THAT CREATES JOBS, THAT PUTS MORE MONEY INTO THE ECONOMY, ALLOWS THEM TO INVEST IN CAPITAL, HIGHER WAGES.

SO, ANYTHING WE CAN DO.

BUT UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS IN CHINA AND EUROPE MIGHT BE VERY DIFFERENT, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO ADD INDIA INTO THE MIX, BY THE WAY.

SO, YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT EACH AREA OF THE WORLD A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENTLY, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT ALWAYS HAS TO COME BACK TO THE, WHAT'S THE RESULT?

IS THE NET RESULT BETTER FOR THE AMERICAN WORKER?

IS THE NET RESULT BETTER FOR THE AMERICAN BUSINESS?

THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS.

>> GOVERNOR CHRIS SUNUNU, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> AND JUST A QUICK FACT CHECK REGARDING INFLATION.

WHILE IT DID PEAK AT 9.1% IN JUNE OF 2022, SINCE THEN, IT HAS DECLINED SHARPLY.

IT IS AROUND 3% JUNE OF THIS YEAR.

>>> NOW, AN ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATION, AN AGING PRESIDENT STRUGGLING IN THE POLLS, AND WIDENING POLITICAL POLARIZATION.

THE PARALLELS BETWEEN THE AMERICA OF 1968 AND TODAY ARE UNCANNY.

COMPLETE WITH TRAUMATIC MEMORIES FOR THOSE WHO LIVED THROUGH THAT TURBULENT TIME.

FOR LUCI BAINES JOHNSON, DAUGHTER OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT LYNDON B. JOHNSON, THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT DREW CHILLING PARALLELS WITH THE POLITICAL VIOLENCE THAT SURROUNDED HER OWN FATHER'S PRESIDENCY.

AND SHE'S JOINING ME NOW FROM THE LBJ LIBRARY IN TEXAS.

LUCI BAINES JOHNSON, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

AND WE REALLY ARE SO PLEASED TO HAVE YOU, BECAUSE OF YOUR EXPERIENCE, AND TO PUT IT INTO HISTORICAL CONTEXT.

FIRST, LET ME ASK YOU, WHAT MOTIVATED YOU TO WRITE THAT STATEMENT SHORTLY AFTER THE ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT, AND TO ALSO GATHER, NOT ONLY YOUR SISTER, BUT THE DAUGHTER OF GERALD FORD, AGAINST WHOM THERE WAS ALSO AN ASSASSINATION CONSPIRACY AND ATTEMPT?

>> WELL, WE ALL FELT THAT IT WAS AN IMPORTANT THING TO DO.

WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF PRESIDENTS FROM BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES.

WE ENDURED THE AGONY OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY'S ASSASSINATION.

PRESIDENT FORD'S ATTEMPTED ASSASSINATIONS.

AND THE ASSASSINATION OF ROBERT KENNEDY AND MARTIN LUTHER KING.

OUR PARENTS ARE GONE.

BUT OUR FAMILIES STAND TOGETHER, CALLING FOR PEACE AND HEALING IN THESE DIFFICULT DAYS.

THERE SIMPLY IS NO PLACE FOR VIOLENCE IN AMERICA.

SUSAN, LINDA, AND I ALL BELIEVE IN THIS STATEMENT, AND WANTED VERY MUCH TO SHARE IT WITH THE WORLD.

WE THANK YOU FOR GIVING US THE CHANCE TO DO SO NOW.

>> WELL, WE THANK YOU, AS WELL.

AND I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU FEEL IN THE INTERVENING WEEK OR SO SINCE THAT HORROR THAT HAPPENED LAST WEEKEND, AND WHETHER YOU THINK, GIVEN THE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU ALSO HAD IN 1968, WITH THE VIOLENCE AT THE DEMOCRATIC CONVENTION, WITH THEN THE ASSASSINATIONS OF -- WELL, JUST BEFORE, THE ASSASSINATIONS OF ROBERT KENNEDY AND ALSO OF MARTIN LUTHER KING.

HOW YOU PUT THAT IN CONTEXT WITH THE RISKS TO THE NATION TODAY.

>> WELL, IT WAS ALL VERY SURREAL TO EVERYBODY, I THINK, WHO LIVED THROUGH THOSE TIMES.

LINDA, SUSAN AND I HAD VERY SPECIAL PRISM IN THAT OUR PARENTS WERE INVOLVED IN PUBLIC LIFE AT SUCH A HIGH LEVEL.

BUT -- BUT INDEED, I THINK, THE 1960s GRABBED AT THE HEARTSTRINGS OF EVERYBODY OF AGE OF MEMORY.

AND THEY DATE THE EVENTS IN THEIR LIVES BEFORE AND AFTERWARDS.

I THINK IN MANY WAYS, WE WILL DO THE SAME AGAIN.

BUT I THINK WE GOT TO PULL OURSELVES TOGETHER AS A COUNTRY AND SAY, HOW CAN WE COME TOGETHER, UNITED AS AMERICANS?

REGARDLESS OF OUR POLITICAL PREFERENCES.

AND TREAT EACH OTHER WITH RESPECT AND WITH COMMITMENT TO PEACE IN OUR TIME?

>> WHEN YOU LOOK INTO YOUR HEART AND SOUL AND WHEN YOU LOOK AROUND AT WHAT'S HAPPENING, TODAY IS OBVIOUSLY A VERY DIFFERENT TIME.

YES, THERE WERE POLITICAL DISAGREEMENTS THERE, BUT ALL THE HISTORIANS AND EVERYBODY TELLS US THAT DESPITE THE VIOLENCE, THE EXTREME VIOLENCE IN 1968, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT WASN'T AS POLITICALLY POLARIZED ON A DAILY AND MINUTE-BY-MINUTE BASIS.

SO, DO YOU THINK THAT THE COUNTRY CAN ACTUALLY USE THIS MOMENT TO COME TOGETHER, OR IS THAT WISHFUL THINKING?

>> I THINK WE MUST COME TOGETHER.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'M SO GRATEFUL FOR IS THAT MY FATHER USED ALL OF THESE CHILLING MOMENTS IN AMERICAN HISTORY DURING HIS TIME TO SERVE THE GREATER GOOD.

AFTER THE AGONY OF BLOODY SUNDAY CAME THE HOPE OF THE 1964 VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

OUT OF THE PAIN OF -- OF THE ASSASSINATION OF ROBERT KENNEDY AND MARTIN LUTHER KING CAME THE 1968 FAIR HOUSING ACT.

WE TRIED TO USE THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY THAT TORE OUR NATION'S HEART ASUNDER TO SUPPORT THE 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT.

AN ACT THAT WE CELEBRATE 60 YEARS OF.

THIS JULY 2nd.

AND WE HOPE TO HAVE PRESIDENT BIDEN COME TO THE LBJ LIBRARY, SO WE CAN JOIN HANDS TOGETHER TO LOOK BACK OVER AMERICA'S HISTORY AND SAY, THIS WAS A GREAT GOOD.

WE LITERALLY WERE ABLE TO ERADICATE AN AMERICAN FORM OF APARTHEID.

AS A RESULT OF THIS ACT.

WE'VE GOT TO TAKE THE HORRORS THAT HAPPENED IN OUR TIME AND TURN THEM TOWARDS THE GREATER GOOD FOR ALL TIME.

I HAVE -- WITH MY HUSBAND, 14 GRANDCHILDREN.

WE CARE DEEPLY ABOUT THE FUTURE WE ARE GIVING THEM, AND WE ARE COMMITTED TO DOING ALL WE CAN FOR PEACE IN OUR TIME.

>> YOU ARE UNIQUELY PLACED TO TALK LIKE THIS, AND YOU HAVE SO MUCH HISTORY, THE FACT THAT YOUR FATHER ASSUMED THE PRESIDENCY AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY, I MEAN, YOU AS YOUNG PEOPLE MUST HAVE BEEN REALLY, REALLY SHOCKED.

AS WAS, YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE ADMINISTRATION AT THE BEGINNING.

BUT I REALLY AM INTERESTED, BECAUSE YOU JUST BROUGHT UP PRESIDENT BIDEN AND YOU, OF COURSE, KNOW THAT THERE'S THIS CLAMOR NOW RISING, THERE'S NOW A VERY SENIOR CONGRESSMAN, ADAM SCHIFF, WHO HAS JOINED THE CALL THAT BIDEN SHOULD STEP ASIDE FOR SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, MORE LIKELY TO WIN.

AND I CAN'T HELP REMEMBERING, EVERYBODY REMEMBERS, THAT THE LAST TIME A CANDIDATE STEPPED ASIDE WAS YOUR FATHER.

IN 1968.

AND I WANT TO PLAY THE SNIPPET OF WHAT PRESIDENT JOHNSON SAID TO THE NATION WHEN HE DECIDED THAT HE WAS NOT GOING TO RUN AGAIN.

>> I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT I SHOULD DEVOTE AN HOUR OR A DAY OF MY TIME TO ANY PERSONAL, PARTISAN CAUSES, OR TO ANY DUTIES OTHER THAN THE AWESOME DUTIES OF THIS OFFICE.

THE PRESIDENCY OF YOUR COUNTRY.

ACCORDINGLY, I SHALL NOT SEEK AND I WILL NOT ACCEPT THE NOMINATION OF MY PARTY FOR ANOTHER TERM AS YOUR PRESIDENT.

>> I MEAN, YOU OBVIOUSLY REMEMBER THAT, IT WAS CERTAINLY HISTORY-SHATTERING MOMENT, AND OF COURSE, IT CAME IN THE CONTEXT OF THE VIETNAM WAR AND YOUR FATHER HAD CERTAIN HEALTH ISSUES.

WHAT MUST YOU BE THINKING NOW, AS A SIMILAR MOVEMENT IS DEVELOPING THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SHOULD STEP ASIDE, ALTHOUGH HE HAS NOT AGREED, UNLIKE YOUR FATHER.

>> WELL, I HAVE KNOWN, LOVED, AND RESPECTED PRESIDENT BIDEN FOR DECADES.

HE HAS EARNED MY SUPPORT.

HIS PRESIDENCY HAS REFLECTED THE VALUES THAT MY FATHER FELT SO COMMITTED TO, THOSE OF SOCIAL JUSTICE AND, SO -- I BELIEVE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S DECISION IS UNIQUELY HIS OWN, JUST AS MY FATHER'S WAS UNIQUELY HIS OWN.

AND SO, FOR THE MOMENT, I HONOR PRESIDENT BIDEN'S DECISION, I RESPECT HIM AND SUPPORT HIM.

BUT THESE ARE VERY TRYING TIMES.

AND EACH PRESIDENT HAS TO MAKE HIS OWN DECISION ABOUT WHAT THE RIGHT THING FOR HIM TO DO UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES THAT ARE HANDED TO HIM.

>> AND WHAT, IN 20 SECONDS THAT WE HAVE LEFT, IS THE FUTURE OF AMERICA RIGHT NOW?

I REALIZE IT'S A BIG QUESTION, 20 SECONDS.

>> WELL, MY HOPE FOR AMERICA IS MY HOPE FOR ALL OF THE WORLD, THAT SOMEHOW WE CAN COME TOGETHER TO RECOGNIZE THE GOOD THAT IS IN EACH OF US, TO CELEBRATE IT, TO WORK FOR IT, AND STAY VIGILANT FOR IT.

IF WE DON'T, THE CONSEQUENCES ARE SIMPLY TOO GRAVE.

>> LUCI BAINES JOHNSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH, INDEED, FOR JOINING US WITH THOSE WORDS OF WISDOM AND MEMORY.

>>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT'S COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.

THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.

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