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> HELLO, AND WELCOME BACK TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
GETS SUPPORT FROM PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN IN HER FIGHT FOR NOW SHE TELLS ME WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN AFTER THE PHOTO OP.
THEN -- AWE THORNTARIAN LEADERS CRACK DOWN ON JOURNALISTS.
PERFORMANCE PSYCHOLOGY EXPERT EXPLORES WHAT HAPPENS WHEN AN ATHLETES MENTAL HEALTH CAUSES PHYSICAL RISK.
ON THE GROUND IN TENNESSEE ABOUT THE HUMAN TOLL OF VACCINE DENIAL.
> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEINF.
THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.
THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.
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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS THANK YOU.OM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
IMPORTANT ACT OF DIPLOMACY HAS FINALLY HAPPENED AND IT PLAYED OUT IN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S TWITTER FEED.
HE POSTED A PHOTOGRAPH OF HIS MEETING WITH BELARUS OPPOSITION LEADER SVIATLANA TSIKHANOUSKAYA SAYING HE WAS HONORED TO MEET WITH HER.
THE FACE-TO-FACE TALKS PLACED ON HER CAMPAIGN TO RATCHET UP INTERNATIONAL PRESSURE ON BELARUS STRONGMAN LUKASHENKO.
I WILL BE SPEAKING WITH HER IN JUST A MOMENT.
BUT LUKASHENKO IS GOING TO GREAT LENGTHS TO CRACK DOWN ON INDEPENDENT REPORTERS, AS THE WORLD SAW WHEN HE FORCED A PASSENGER JET TO LAND IN BELARUS.
RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN IS ANOTHER OLD HAND AT SUPPRESSING JOURNALISM AND THE INTENSITY OF THE CRACKDOWN SEEMS TO BE RISING.
JUST YESTERDAY RUSSIAN SECURITY OFFICERS RAIDED THE HOME OF THE EDITOR OF THE INDEPENDENT NEWS SITE THE INSIDER.
HE IS A COLLEAGUE AND HE OVERSEES THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING AT THE NEWS SITE AND JOINS ME FROM MOSCOW.
ALEXI, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.
I BELIEVE WE HAVE SOME TECHNICAL ISSUES WITH YOUR SHOT.
WE WILL COME BACK TO HIM IN JUST A MOMENT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOININ.
I KNOW WE SPOKE JUST A FEW WEEKR TRIP TO THE UNITED STATES WHERE YOU MET WITH MANY LEADERS HERE, AND THOSE THAT WORK IN THE ADMINISTRATION.
BUT THERE HAD BEEN QUESTIONS AS TO WHETHER YOU WOULD ACTUALLY MEET WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, YOU YOURSELF DOUBTED THAT THAT WOULD HAPPEN JUST MONDAY, AND HERE WE ARE YESTERDAY, THAT FAMOUS PHOTO NOW OF YOU AND PRESIDENT BIDEN.
HOW DID THIS MEETING COME ABOUT?
FIRST OF ALL, I'M SO GRATEFUL FOR THIS MEETING BECAUSE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR BELARUS, FOR US TO HAVE THIS POLITICAL VIEW, AND IT WAS VERY WARM AND SENSITIVE MEETING.
I'M REALLY GLAD I MET THE PERSON WHO SAYS THAT IT'S AN ONGOING STRUGGLE AND BELARUS IS ON THE FRONT LINE OF THIS FIGHT.
SO THE USA WILL HELP BELARUSIANS IN THIS DIFFICULT MOMENT.
OUTSIDE OF THE WHITE HOUSE YOU SAID THE MEETING LASTED ABOUT 15 MINUTES AND YOU SAID I AM LEAVING THE WHITE HOUSE WITH CONFIDENCE THAT THE UNITED STATES WILL BE WITH BELARUSIANS AFTER A NEW ELECTION.
PRIOR TO THIS MEETING YOU HAD EXPRESSED DISCOURAGEMENT THAT YOU WEREN'T GETTING TANGENTIAL ISSUES RESOLVED FROM THE WHITE HOUSE.
DID YOU GET ANY ACTIONS, ANY PROMISES, FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN YESTERDAY?
LOOK, WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR PROMISES.
OUR TASK IS TO EXPLAIN WHAT'S GOING ON IN BELARUS AND HOW THE USA COULD BE HELPFUL IN OUR RESISTANCE TO DICTATORSHIP.
AND WE DISCUSSED AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE WILL COMMUNICATE FURTHER AND WE, TOGETHER, TRIED TO LOOK FOR WAYS OUT OF THE SITUATION.
AND, SECOND, LUKASHENKO'S REGIME, POLITICALLY AND FINANCIALLY, ASSISTS SOCIETY, ASSIST THOSE THAT NEED IT AND THE BUSINESSES THAT HAD TO RELOCATE FROM THE COUNTRY, AND OF COURSE PRISONERS AND THEIR FAMILIES.
AND WE ALSO TALKED ABOUT A FUTURE VISION OF BELARUS, WE'LL NEED TO RESTORE OUR COUNTRY, BECAUSE AT THE MOMENT THE REGIME IS DESTROYING ALL THE NGOs, CIVIL SOCIETY, MEDIA, AND WE WILL NEED ASSISTANCE IN THE FUTURE AS WELL.
SO A LOT HAD BEEN DISCUSSED AND I AM SURE THAT EVERYTHING WE DISCUSSED WILL BE FULFILLED.
IT'S NOT ABOUT PROMISES.
IT'S ABOUT COMMITMENT.
WE KNOW THAT THE UNITED STATES, ALONG WITH OTHER EUROPEAN ALLIES, HAS IMPOSED SANCTIONS ON BELARUS, FOLLOWING THE DOWNING OF THAT RYANAIR FLIGHT, BUT YOU HAVE ACTUALLY PUSHED THAT WHAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN NEXT TO REALLY PUT LUKASHENKO IN A BIND IS SANCTIONS AGAINST THOSE ENTITIES CLOSEST TO HIM, HIS CRONIES, AS YOU CALL THEM.
DID YOU GET ANY INDICATION FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN THAT THAT WOULD BE HIS NEXT MOVE?
I HOPE THAT THE USA WILL IMPOSE STRONGER SANCTIONS ON THE REGIME AND CLOSE LOOPHOLES THAT WERE LEFT AFTER THE EUROPEAN UNION SANCTIONS.
BUT YOU DID NOT GET ANY PROMISES FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN OR ANY INDICATION THAT THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT HE WOULD LOOK TO DO?
NO, I DIDN'T TAKE ANY PROMISES.
IT'S THE PREROGATIVE OF PRESIDENT BIDEN AND HIS TEAM TO FULFILL OR NOT FULFILL WHAT WE ASKED HIM FOR.
IT'S INTERESTING, BECAUSE ONE OF THE REASONS, PERHAPS, AND THOSE THAT FOLLOW BELARUS AND RUSSIA, MANY HAD BEEN SPECULATING WHY THIS MEETING HAD NOT TAKEN PLACE YET.
YOU HAVE BEEN IN THE UNITED STATES FOR QUITE A FEW DAYS AND WEEKS NOW.
AND ONE THEORY WAS THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION, PRESIDENT BIDEN, DIDN'T WANT TO FURTHER THE TENSIONS BETWEEN HIM AND VLADIMIR PUTIN FOLLOWING THEIR MEETING IN GENEVA.
OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES ON THE DOCKET, INCLUDING CYBERATTACKS AND WHAT HAVE YOU.
NOW THAT THIS MEETING TOOK PLACE, GIVEN HOW CLOSE LUKASHENKO IS AND HOW MUCH HE RELIES ON PRESIDENT PUTIN, I'M WONDERING WHETHER YOU THINK THIT BIDEN WAS TRYING TO SEND VLADIMIR PUTIN.
DID PUTIN'S NAME COME UP AT ALL DURING THIS MEETING?
NO, THIS MEETING DIDN'T HAPPEN ON OUR FIRST VISIT TO WASHINGTON BECAUSE WE KNOW THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS THE TOUGHEST SCHEDULE IN THE WORLD.
SO THE FACT OF MEETING IS WONDERFUL, AND OF COURSE THIS IS A CLEAR MESSAGE TO THE BELARUSIAN PEOPLE, TO THE REGIME AND OTHER STATES THAT THE USA IS ON THE SIDE OF LIGHT, BUT NOT ON THE SIDE OF DARKNESS.
DID YOU SPEAK ABOUT VLADIMIR PUTIN AT ALL?
WE WERE CONCENTRATED ON BELARUS.
I KNOW YOU SAID THAT YOU WERE THERE NOT ONLY FOR YOURSELF AND REPRESENTING THE NATION, BUT FOR THE 35,000 PLUS WHO HAVE BEEN DETAINED WITHOUT ANY REASON BACK HOME IN THEIR COUNTRIES, MANY JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN TARGETED AS WELL.
THE OPPOSITION MOVEMENT THERE REALLY HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED BY LUKASHENKO OVER THE PAST FEW MONTHS AND YOU, YOURSELF, SAID THAT IT NEEDED A SPARK.
DO YOU THINK THAT MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS JUST 15 MINUTES, BUT THAT PICTURE WAS SEEN AROUND THE WORLD, DO YOU THINK THAT'S THE SPARK THAT CAN REIGNITE THAT MOVEMENT?
OUR MOVEMENT IS CONTINUING, IT'S STILL THERE AND NOBODY HAS GIVEN UP.
AND OF COURSE THIS MEETING, PEOPLE ARE ALREADY SPARKED, BUT THIS IS ABOUT MESSAGE AND THIS IS ABOUT ON WHOSE SIDE FOR DEMOCRACY.
THIS IS A PERSONAL ISSUE FOR YOU NOT ONLY BECAUSE YOU REPRESENT BELARUS AND WANT TO SEE A BRIGHTER, MORE DEMOCRATIC FUTURE FOR THE COUNTRY, BUT BECAUSE YOUR HUSBAND IS ONE OF THOSE THAT'S DETAINED AS WELL.
YOU AND YOUR CHILDREN HAVE NOT SEEN HIM NOW IN A YEAR.
YOU WOULD ONLY EXCHANGE LETTERS WITH HIM.
AND HE WAS THE ONE WHO INITIALLY HAD BEEN THOUGHT OF AS THE POLITICIAN WHO WOULD POSSIBLY BRING DOWN THE LUKASHENKO REGIME.
YOU'RE HIS WIFE, A SCHOOLTEACHER, AND NOW HERE YOU ARE.
HOW ARE THEY DOING AND HOW ARE YOU DOING, GIVEN HOW PERSONAL THIS IS FOR YOU?
OUR POLITICAL PRISONERS AND THOSE WHO ARE BEHIND BARS BECAUSE OF POLITICAL REASONS, THEY ARE IN AN AWFUL POSITION BEHIND THE BARS BECAUSE THE CONDITIONS ARE AWFUL, PEOPLE ARE SLEEPING ON THE FLOOR AND WITHOUT MATTRESSES, LACK OF FRESH AIR, LACK OF NORMALITY.
THEY ARE HUMILIATED PSYCHOLOGICALLY AND PHYSICALLY EVERY DAY AND WE HAVE A LOT OF WOMEN THERE, AND OF COURSE THE INSTITUTION IS AWFUL.
FOR ME, THE MOST I EXPERIENCE NOW IS TIREDNESS, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT I CAN'T STOP BECAUSE I'M THE SAME, AND I'M RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE WHO ARE BEHIND THE BARS NOW, WHO SACRIFICED FOR FREEDOM AND HEALTH AND LIFE JUST TO GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY TO FIGHT FOR THEM.
AND THIS IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY AND WE HAVE TO CONTINUE MAYBE WITH SMALL STEPS, BUT JUST MOVE FORWARD.
I KNOW WE HAD MENTIONED THE QUESTION OF WHETHER OR NOT THE U.S. WOULD IMPOSE FURTHER SANCTIONS, SANCTIONS THAT YOU HAVE SUGGESTED AND SPOKEN ABOUT PUBLICLY.
DID THE PRESIDENT OFFER ANY SUGGESTION TO FULFILL ONE OF YOUR OTHER REQUESTS, AND THAT IS SUPPORTING YOUR MOVEMENT FINANCIALLY?
WE ARE ASKING SUPPORT FOR POLITICAL PRISONERS, FOR THEIR FAMILIES.
WE ARE ASKING SUPPORT FOR THOSE THAT CONTINUE TO RESIST ABROAD AND I'M SURE THAT THIS HELP WILL BE INCREASED IN THE NEAR FUTURE.
FROM THE UNITED STATES SPECIFICALLY?
YEAH.
FINAL QUESTION FOR YOU, I KNOW THAT LUKASHENKO HAS DEFINITELY BEEN BOXED IN OVER THE LAST YEAR.
THAT IS FOR SURE.
YOU HAVE NOW MET WITH MORE WORLD LEADERS THAN HE HAS.
I BELIEVE IT'S ONLY THREE OR FOUR THAT HE HAS MET WITH.
BUT FOR LONGER TERM, YOU ARE STILL NOT ALLOWED -- YOU'RE NOT GOING BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY, YOUY FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.
AS SOMEONE WHO IS THE FACE OF THE OPPOSITION MOVEMENT THERE, WHAT IS NEXT FOR YOU?
CAN YOU LEAD THIS MOVEMENT SUCCESSFULLY WHEN YOU'RE NOT IN THE COUNTRY ITSELF?
NO, WE COMMUNICATE TO THE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND EVERY DAY.
WE UNDERSTAND WHAT'S GOING ON INSIDE BELARUS, AND I'M GOING TO OTHER COUNTRIES LOOKING FOR ALLIES ON BEHALF OF ALL BELARUSIANS.
EVERYBODY IN BELARUS, IT'S OUR TIME TO DO WHAT YOU CAN.
I CAN VISIT OTHER COUNTRIES, MEET WITH PRESIDENTS AND SO ON, BUT THOSE WHO ARE IN BELARUS AND MAKING VERY SMALL, BUT IMPORTANT STEPS, DOING NO LESS THAN ME.
SO UNITED ACTIVITIES WILL BRING US TO NEW ELECTIONS.
WELL, I COULD SAY ONCE AGAIN, JUST TO REITERATE, THIS WAS A MEETING THAT NO ONE EXPECTED AND IT WAS QUITE SURPRISING AND I'M SURE IT MAY HAVE BEEN JUST AS SURPRISING TO PEOPLE BACK ON THE STREETS IN BELARUS AND TO LUCK LUKASHENKO HIMSELF.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
THANK YOU.
> AS I MENTIONED EARLIER, RUSSIAN SECURITY OFFICERS RAIDED THE HOME OF THE EDITOR OF INDEPENDENT NEWS SITE THE INSIDER IN RUSSIA.
HE IS A COLLEAGUE AND HE OVERSEES THE INVESTIGATIVE REPORTING AT THE NEWS SITE AND JOINS ME NOW FROM MOSCOW.
I CAN SEE YOU NOW.
WE'VE GOT OUR SIGNALS WORKING.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
BEFORE WE TALK ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON ON THE GROUND IN MOSCOW, I'M JUST CURIOUS TO GET YOUR RESPONSE TO THIS SURPRISING MEETING BETWEEN TSIKHANOUSKAYA AND BIDEN YESTERDAY AND HOW IT'S BEING RECEIVED IN RUSSIA.
OF COURSE, IF YOU LOOK AT THE RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA, THEY ARE DENIGRATING ABOUT THIS AND THIS IS A WHOLE GENRE THERE IN THE RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA NEWS AGENCIES OF MAKING MOCKERY OF THESE MEETINGS BETWEEN THE LEADERS OF UKRAINE AND BELARUS WITH AMERICANS, BECAUSE THE WHOLE POINT OF THE COVERAGE IS TO MAKE SURE THE VIEWERS UNDERSTAND THAT LEADERS OF THESE COUNTRY ARE ALL AMERICAN LACKEYS.
SO THAT'S WHAT'S GOING ON BASICALLY.
AND THIS IS ALL HAPPENING WHEN WE HAVE ANOTHER MEETING COMING UP IN THE WHITE HOUSE WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.
I BELIEVE THAT'S SCHEDULED TO TAKE PLACE NEXT WEEK.
I CAN ONLY IMAGINE HOW THE RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA WILL BE COVERING THAT.
BUT IN TERMS OF WHAT INDEPENDENT JOURNALISTS ARE COVERING, FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF AND YOUR COLLEAGUES, IT'S BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A DANGEROUS OCCUPATION.
AS WE MENTIONED, YOUR COLLEAGUE, WHO WAS THE EDITOR AND CHIEF OF 'THE INSIDER', AND WE SHOULD NOTE THAT THEY WORK CLOSELY WITH CNN TO TRACK DOWN ORIGINS OF WHO WAS BEHIND THE POISONING OF ALEXEI NAVALNY.
HIS HOME WAS RAIDED AND PHONE WAS TAKEN.
I'M FOLLOWING RUSSIAN MEDIA EVERY SINGLE DAY AND THIS IS BECOMING SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS QUITE FREQUENTLY, AND FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, GIVEN THAT THIS HAPPENED TO MEDUSA AS WELL, HOW MUCH FURTHER, HOW MUCH WORSE CAN THINGS GET?
THEY CAN GET MUCH, MUCH WORK.
LOOK AT BELARUS.
WE'RE NOT THERE YET.
WE'RE PROBABLY A FEW MONTHS BEHIND.
YOU KNOW WHAT, MOST OF US HAVE REALLY PASSED THE POINT OF BEING AFRAID.
RIGHT NOW IT'S JUST INCREDIBLY TIRING.
EVERY MORNING I'M WAKING UP AND THERE ARE ANY ONGOING RAIDS, FIRST TO MAKE SURE THAT THE POLICE ARE NOT RUNNING DOWN MYD.
ONGOING RAIDS ON MY COLLEAGUES.
I'M THINKING, WHAT AM I GOING TO DO TODAY?
AM I GOING TO DO PUBLIC SERVICE JOURNALISM OR DOCUMENT THE DEMISE OF MY OWN INDUSTRY?
IT'S JUST REALLY FRUSTRATING.
I WAS TALKING WITH A COLLEAGUE WHO HAD TO SHUT DOWN PREEMPTIVELY BEFORE BEING DECLARED A FOREIGN AGENT BECAUSE THEY HEARD THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE IT PROBABLY WAS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE AND THEY SHUT DOWN THE ORGANIZATION AND WE WERE DISCUSSING THIS, AND WE BOTH THOUGHT IT'S REALLY FRUSTRATING TO BE SPENDING THE BEST YEARS, THE MOST PRODUCTIVES ON THIS.
BECAUSE IT'S NOT JUST BEING AFRAID OF THOSE RAIDS.
THESE LAWS, THESE FOREIGN AGENTS LAWS, ONE ORGANIZATION WAS EVEN DECLARED AN UNDESIRABLE ORGANIZATION, ANOTHER INVESTIGATIVE OUTLET.
AND THEY JUST REALLY HAD TO EVACUATE THEIR EMPLOYEES OUT OF THE COUNTRY BECAUSE IT'S NOW SIMPLY ILLEGAL FOR ANYONE TO WORK WITH THEM.
THE ONE COMMONALITY SEEMS TO BE THAT THEY ARE AT TIMES CRITICAL AND OBJECTIVE WHEN IT COMES TO REPORTING ON DOMESTIC AFFAIRS, SPECIFICALLY THE KREMLIN.
CAN YOU GIVE OUR VIEWERS AN INDICATION OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE LABELED A FOREIGN AGENT, AN UNDESIRABLE?
I FOLLOW YOUR WEBSITE, PERHAPS MANY PEOPLE DON'T.
THEY SHOULD.
BUT IT DOES COME WITH MANY WARNINGS NOW THAT JUST REALLY ARE AN EYESORE.
WELL, IT'S DESIGNED TO DO SO.
IT'S ALSO A LEGAL MINEFIELD.
SO AFTER I CHECK MY PHONE FOR ONGOING RAIDS, DURING THE DAY I'LL HAVE TO CHECK EVERY STORY AND UPLOAD ON THE WEBSITE TO MAKE SURE I PUT ALL THE DISCLAIMERS AND NAMES OF ALL THOSE OTHER ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN DECLARED UNDESIRABLE OR EXTREMIST TO MAKE SURE THAT I'M NOT FINED FOR OMITTING THED.
IT'S BY DESIGN.
THESE LAWS ARE TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR JOBS ARE AS ABSURDLY DIFFICULT AS THEY CAN BE TO DISCOURAGE US FROM DOING THIS JOB IN THE FIRST PLACE.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
AND THEY'LL TELL YOU, THE KREMLIN WILL TELL YOU THAT THE RUSSIAN FOREIGN AGENTS LAW IS REALLY JUST A MODEL, IT'S REALLY JUST A CARBON COPY OF THE FOREIGN AGENTS REGISTRATION IN THE UNITED STATES, BUT IT ONLY APPLIES TO LOBBYISTS OF POWERFUL INDUSTRY GROUPS OR GOVERNMENTS.
RUSSIAN FOREIGN AGENTS LAW APPLIES TO INDIVIDUAL PERSONS AND IT'S DESIGNED TO MAKE THEIRT OF THE PROFESSION AND TO ROB THEM OF THEIR LIVELIHOODS, BECAUSE I'M SEEING MESSAGES FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DECLARED FOREIGN AGENTS HERE IN RUSSIA AND IN JULY ALONE I THINK IT'S JUST 13 PEOPLE ALREADY HAVE BEEN DECLARED FOREIGN AGENTS AND THEY CAN'T WORK AS JOURNALISTS ANYMORE.
SO PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR JOBS OUTSIDE OF JOURNALISM BECAUSE NO ONE WILL EMPLOY THEM NOW BECAUS.
RIGHT?THEY LEAVE THE COUNTRY,
OH, YEAH.
WHICH IS ANOTHER WISH FOR MANY IN THE KREMLIN.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN WHAT THAT MEANS OR HOW IT'S BEING PERCEIVED BY AVERAGE RUSSIANS WHO MAY NOT BE JOURNALISM, BUT PERHAPS AREN'T JUST WATCHING STATE MEDIA EITHER?
WELL, THERE HAS BEEN AN INCREDIBLE WAVE OF SUPPORT FOR MEDUSA.
WE WERE DECLARED FOREIGN AGENTS AND APRIL AND THE WAVE OF SUPPORT -- WE WERE JUST THINKING OF CLOSING SHOP AND JUST GOING AWAY, BECAUSE WHO KNOWS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO US.
BUT NOW ACTUALLY DOZENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE DONATED MONEY TO OUR CROWDFUNDING CAMPAIGN, SO WE KEEP GOING.
SO IT'S REALLY ENCOURAGING.
IT MEANS THAT PEOPLE REALLY NEED US.
BUT THAT WAS BACK IN APRIL.
SINCE THEN, DOZENS OF PEOPLE HAVE BEEN DECLARED FOREIGN AGENTS IN TWO ORGANIZATIONS.
ONE OF THEM WAS DECLARED ON TOP OF THAT AN UNDESIRABLE ORGANIZATION.
AS TIME GOES, PEOPLE WITH DONATE MONEY TO ONE OR TWO OF THEIR FAVORITE WEBSITES, MAYBE THREE.
BUT WHEN IT'S A DOZEN, TWO DOZENS, THERE IS ONLY SO MUCH RESOURCE THAT PEOPLE CAN -- SO MUCH SUPPORT AND PHYSICAL RESOURCES THAT PEOPLE CAN DONATE.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT.
AND THERE'S NO COINCIDENCE OF THE TIMING, WE'RE JUST WEEKS AWAY FROM THE ELECTIONS THERE, THE PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS IN RUSSIA JUST A FEW DAYS AGO, THE RUSSIAN FEDERAL SENSOR BLOCKED ALEXEI NAVALNY'S MAIN SITE, ALONG WITH 40 PLUS OTHER SITES THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH HIM.
CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THAT ALONE AND NOT ALLOWING AVERAGE, ORDINARY RUSSIANS TO BE ABLE TO GO TO SUCH SITES AS THEY ARE THINKING ABOUT WHO THEY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR IN SEPTEMBER?
WELL, OF COURSE NOT ONLY ALEXEI NAVALNY HIMSELF IS IN PRISON, BUT ALL OF HIS CLOSEST SUPPORTERS HAVE BEEN BARRED FROM RUNNING IN THESE ELECTIONS.
BUT NOT JUST THAT.
NOW IT'S BECAUSE HIS ORGANIZATION IS, FOR ALL INTENTS AND PURPOSES ILLEGAL IN RUSSIA.
ANYONE WHO HAS EVER BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH THEM IN ANY WAY, VOLUNTEERED FOR ONE OF THEIR CAMPAIGNS, AND THAT IS HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, ALL THESE PEOPLE, TOO, HAVE BEEN DISENFRANCHISED FROM RUNNING IN THESE ELECTIONS.
SO ANYONE FROM THE SO-CALLED SYSTEMIC PARTIES, THOSE THAT ARE SITTING IN THE PARLIAMENT AND HAVE THE UNSPOKEN SUPPORT OF THE KREMLIN, EVEN IF YOU BELONG TO ONE OF THOSE PARTIES AND YOU EXPRESS SUPPORT FOR ALEXEI NAVALNY, YOU WILL ALSO BE BARRED FROM RUNNING.
THAT'S WHY WE ARE NOW.
ANY CONTACT WHATSOEVER, ANY EXPRESSION OF SUPPORT FOR ALEXEE KREMLIN'S NAUGHTY LIST.
I'VE BEEN, AS I MENTIONED, FOLLOWING RUSSIAN NEWS CLOSELY, AND I HAVE TO SAY, EVEN THE MOST NEGATIVE OF ANALYSTS THERE WHO WERE JADED GOING INTO THIS YEAR AND ALEXEI NAVALNY'S RETURN ARE STILL STUNNED BY THE SPEED AT WHICH THIS CRACKDOWN HAS TAKENA.
AND JUST LASTLY, CAN YOU PUT IT IN A GLOBAL PERSPECTIVE FOR US?
THERE ARE SO MANY ISSUES ON THE AGENDA BETWEEN PRESIDENT BIDEN AND VLADIMIR PUTIN, ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT IMPACT AMERICANS AND.
BUT CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO OUR VIEWERS WHY THIS CRACKDOWN IS SO DETRIMENTAL TO RUSSIA AND ITS FUTURE AND WHY MORE OF THE WORL?
OKAY, SO IMAGINE THAT THE ONLY NEWS YOU WILL BE GETTING FROM ONE OF THE LARGEST COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD IS JUST STATEMENTS FROM RUSSIAN FOREIGN RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA AND THAT'S GOING TO BE IT.
THAT'S WHERE WE'RE HEADING RIGHT NOW.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S A HEALTHY SITUATION AT ALL, AND OF COURSE THERE IS NO OTHER SCENARIO NOW, IF WE ARE HEADING IN THE SAME DIRECTION WE ARE HEADING NOW, THERE IS NO GOOD -- THERE IS NO WINNING SCENARIO IN THIS FOR ANYONE, BECAUSE IT MEANS, JUST LIKE 30 YEARS AGO, IN THE SOVIET UNION, IT MEANS THAT THE COUNTRY IS HEADING TOWARDS SWIFTER DECLINE AND THAT DOESN'T BODE WELL FOR ANYONE, FOR THE WEST O.
DANGEROUS PLACE.WORLD A MORE I JUST THINK ABOUT AN ARTICLE YOU WROTE WHERE YOUR MOM WARNED YOU WHEN YOU CAME BACK TO RUSSIA, WHY DID YOU COME BACK, AND YOU SAID THE FUTURE OF JOURNALISM WAS GOING TO BE THERE IN RUSSIA, AND I HATE TO SEE YOUR MOM BEING PROVEN RIGHT ON THIS ISSUE.
BUT WE, OF COURSE, WILL CONTINU.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU.
> WE'RE GOING TO SWITCH GEARS NOW TO THE OLYMPICS.
AMERICAN GYMNAST SUNI LEE CELEBRATED HER GOLD MEDAL IN WOMEN'S GYMNASTICS IN TOKYO TODAY, EXTENDING THE RUN OF FIVE ALL-AROUND OLYMPIC GOLDS FOR TEAM USA.
THIS MEDAL DEFINITELY MEANS A POINT IN TIME WHERE I WANTED TO QUIT AND I DIDN'T THINK I WOULD EVER GET HERE, INCLUDING INJURIES AND STUFF.
SO THERE ARE DEFINITELY A LOT OF EMOTIONS, BUT I'M SUPER PROUD OF MYSELF FOR STICKING WITH IT AND BELIEVING IN MYSELF, BECAUSE THIS MEDAL WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE WITHOUT MY COACHES, THE MEDICAL TEAM, MY PARENTS, AND IT'S JUST SO SURREAL AND I HAVEN'T LET IT SINK IN YET.
SUCH A POWERFUL MOMENT, ESPECIALLY TO HEAR THAT SHE IS PROUD OF HERSELF FOR ALL OF THA.
LEE'S TEAMMATE SIMONE BILES CHEERED HER FROM THE SIDELINESAM COMPETITION THIS WEEK TO PROTEC.
FOR ELITE ATHLETES, REAL PHYSICAL HARM.S CAN CAUSE DR. COLLEEN HACKER IS A MENTAL SKILLS COACH FOR OLYMPIC ATHLETES AND AN AUTHORITY ON THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PEAK PERFORMANCE.
DR. HACKER JOINS US LIVE.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, DR. HACKER.
AND I THINK IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO BEGIN THERE AND TALK ABOUT HOW RELATED MENTAL HEALTH IS WITH PHYSICAL HEALTH, BECAUSE SIMONE BILES WAS ASKED HOW SHE IS FEELING PHYSICALLY AND SHE SAID PHYSICALLY, I'M FINE, BUT WE KNOW THERE IS A CONNECTION WITH MENTAL HEALTH AND PHYSICAL.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?
ABSOLUTELY.
AND I JUST AM SMILING AT AND MARVELING AT THAT INTERVIEW WIT.
IT'S INCREDIBLE.
AND WITHOUT A QUESTION THE PHYSICAL EXCELLENCE IS INEXTRICABLY LINKED TO PSYCHOLOGICAL RESILIENCE AND MENTAL HEALTH.
WE DON'T COME AT PERFORMANCE AS COMPARTMENTALIZED HUMAN BEINGS.
WE DON'T PERFORM IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES WITH JUST OUR BODIES.
WE ARE INTEGRATED, IT IS OUR ENTIRE SELVES, AND I WILL SAY, QUITE FRANKLY, AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES OR ANY MAJOR COMPETITION, EVERYTHING IS A PERFORMANCE ISSUE.
EVERY ASPECT THAT AFFECTS OUR LIVES AS HUMAN BEINGS COMES WITH US TO THE PERFORMANCE DOMAIN.
SO TALK ABOUT THE ROLE THAT YOU PLAY, THE CRITICAL ROLE.
YOU HAVE WORKED WITH SOCCER TEAMS, ICE HOCKEY, AND U.S.
WOMEN'S SWIMMING AS WELL.
WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THESE ATHLETES, AND HOW DO YOU COACH THEM ALONG WITH THEIR TRAINERS, THEIR PHYSICAL TRAINERS?
HOW DO YOU COACH THEM TO MAINTAIN THEIR MENTAL HEALTH?
RIGHT.
WELL, THERE IS ALWAYS A TEAM BEHIND THE TEAM.
THERE'S ALWAYS A TEAM BEHIND EACH INDIVIDUAL ATHLETE.
I'VE BEEN FORTUNATE TO SERVE ON SIX OLYMPIC GAMES COACHING STAFFS, AND AS YOU MENTIONED IN A VARIETY OF SPORTS, AND THEN WORKED WITH A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL OLYMPIANS.
WHAT I BRING TO THE EQUATION, I'M A CERTIFIED MENTAL PERFORMANCE CONSULTANT, AND I'M LISTED IN THE UNITED STATES OLYMPIC AND PARALYMPIC SPORTS PSYCHOLOGY REGISTRY AND MY FOCUS IS ON THE PERFORMANCE ENHANCING.
SO I WORK WITH ATHLETES AROUND ISSUES LIKE DEALING WITH THE PRESSURE, DEALING WITH THE DISTRACTIONS THAT ARE COMMON AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES, IMAGERY, FOR EXAMPLE.
WE KNOW FROM RESEARCH THAT 97% TO 98% OF OLYMPIC ATHLETES USE IMAGERY ON A CONSISTENT BASIS.
WE WORK ON THEIR SELF-TALK, ON THEIR BREATHING TECHNIQUES, MINDFULNESS.
AND SO A WHOLE HOST OF VARIABLES ALONG THE PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT.
ALONGSIDE, FOLKS LIKE ME, ARE CLINICAL SPORTS PSYCHOLOGISTS THAT WORK WITH ATHLETES.
SO THESE ARE THE THINGS, CLINICAL ANXIETY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW, TRAUMA, EATING DISORDERS, SUICIDE IDEATION, TESTING POSITIVE FOR COVID, SUBSTANCE ABUSE.
SO THESE TWO GROUPS OF PROFESSIONALS WORK HAND IN HAND, THE PERFORMANCE ENHANCEMENT SIDE AND THE MENTAL HEALTH SIDE.
I'M ON ONE SIDE OF THE EQUATION, AND I'M FORTUNATE TO WORK WITH MANY OF THE BEST IN THE WORLD AT THEIR PARTICULAR CRAFT.
I WAS FOLLOWING SOME OF THE LESSONS THAT YOU ENCOURAGE YOUR ATHLETES TO TRY AND THE BREATHING, TAKING IN FOUR BREATHS AND DRAWING A SQUARE ON.
I FELT LIKE THAT WAS VERY THERAPEUTIC IN THE MOMENT THAT I TRIED IT MYSELF.
THE SIGNIFICANCE OF SIMONE BILES, WE TALK ABOUT TEACHABLE MOMENTS, BUT TO HAVE THE GREATEST GYMNAST OF ALL TIME, ARGUABLY, THE FACE OF U.S.
OLYMPICS, BOW OUT GRACEFULLY, TALK ABOUT THE NEED TO FOCUS ON HER MENTAL HEALTH, AND THEN TWEET TODAY THE OUTPOURING LOVE AND SUPPORT I'VE RECEIVED HAS MADE ME REALIZE I'M MORE THAN MY ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN GYMNASTICS, WHICH I NEVER TRULY BELIEVED BEFORE.
WITHOUT GOING TOO FAR HERE AND TAKING AWAY FROM THE GAMES, IS THIS JUST AN AH-HA MOMENT FOR SPECTATORS, FOR ATHLETES AND THE WORLD TO SEE THAT EVEN THE MOST ACCOMPLISHED OF CHAMPIONS AND ATHLETES HAS THESE STRUGGLES?
WITHOUT QUESTION.
MY FIRST OLYMPIC GAMES WERE IN THE 1996 OLYMPIC GAMES, AND WHILE WE KNEW THAT ATHLETES ARE HUMAN BEINGS FIRST, AND I SAY THAT BECAUSE EVERY POTENTIAL ISSUE THAT WE FACE AS HUMAN BEINGS, AS NON-OLYMPIANS ARE PART OF OLYMPIANS LIVES.
SO CURRENT ESTIMATES ARE ANYWHERE FROM 15% TO 30% OF OLYMPIC ATHLETES ARE OR HAVE EXPERIENCED MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES AT SOME POINT IN THEIR LIVES.
THAT MIRRORS THE DATA FROM THE GENERAL POPULATION.
BUT IN '96 IT WAS -- HOW DO I SAY THIS?
ON THE BACK SHELF.
IT WAS KNOWN, BUT MARGINALIZED.
YOU DIDN'T HEAR ATHLETES COMING FORWARD, YOU DIDN'T HEAR COACHES DISCUSSING THE NEED FOR THIS.
THERE WASN'T A CULTURAL OR SOCIETAL SHIFT.
WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE COURSE OF MY CAREER NOT JUST A GRADUAL SHIFT, BUT AN EXPONENTIAL GROWTH IN ATHLETES' WILLINGNESS TO BE HONEST AND VULNERABLE AND TO VIEW, THAT THEY COME ATN MY PERFORMANCE AS ENTIRE HUMAN BEINGS.
AND THAT MEANS THAT THEY ARE MORE WILLING TO TALK ABOUT THEI.
YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT NEW, AND WHEN I SAY THIS, I MEAN THAT SPORT AND ATHLETICS SORT OF LEADING THE WORLD INTO A NEW ERA OF UNDERSTANDING AND INTEREST.
ATHLETES FREQUENTLY CHANGE AGENTS, WHETHER IT'S SOCIAL ISSUES OR HEALTH AND FITNESS ISSUES, OR IN THESE OLYMPIC GAMES MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES.
SO I JUST CANNOT CELEBRATE OR COMPLIMENT THESE OLYMPIANS, FOR MANY PEOPLE IT BEGAN WITH MICHAEL PHELPS, AND THEN NAOMI OSAKA, AND THEN SIMONE BILES, AND THEY ARE NORMALIZING AND THEY ARE NAMING THE REALITY OF MENTAL HEALTH AS PART OF LIFE DOMAIN.T OF THE PERFORMANCE I CANNOT CELEBRATE THEM ENOUGH.
RIGHT.
AND WE CAN REVISIT SOME OF THETN OLYMPICS PAST.
YOU THINK ABOUT THE 1996 OLYMPICS, DOMINIQUE TWEETED THIS JUST YESTERDAY IN RESPONSE TO SIMONE BILES' DECISION, HER APPLAUDING HER. AND SHE WAS SHE SAID I WAS 14 YEARS OLD WITH A TIBIAL STRESS FRACTURE, LEFT ALONE WITH NO EXAM AFTER THE FALL.
I COMPETED IN THE OLYMPIC FLOOR FINAL MINUTES LATER.
I NEVER FELT I HAD A SAY.
SHE COULD HAVE BROKEN HER NECK.
I REMEMBER WATCHING THAT.
CARRIE SHRUGS SAID THAT WASN'T EVEN SOMETHING SHE NEEDED TO COMPETE IN FOR THEM TO WIN A MEDAL, AND YET SHE DID.
HOW IMPORTANT IS IT FOR US AS SPECTATORS AND FOR YOU AS A COACH AND FOR OLYMPIANS AND ATHLETES TO LOOK BACK AT THESE WELL MOVING FORWARD?OM THEM AS
WE DO NEED TO REVISIT HISTORY.
WE DO NEED TO REVISIT OUR AWARENESS OF WHAT ACTUALLY TRANSPIRED VERSUS THE PORTRAYAL OF WHAT TRANSPIRED.
AND I THINK THAT, TOO, IS A SEMINOLE MOMENT FOR VIEWERS, BECAUSE I HONESTLY BELIEVE THAT FOR THE LAST 36 HOURS, 48 HOURS, I BELIEVE THE VIEWING PUBLIC IS LEARNING FOR THE FIRST TIME THE REALITY OF THE COMPETITIVE SITUATION IN DIFFERENT SPORTS, FOR DIFFERENTLY ATHLETES, IN DIFFERENT OLYMPIC GAMES.
WE THOUGHT WE KNEW.
WE THOUGHT WE KNEW, WE THOUGHT WE UNDERSTOOD THE NARRATIVE.
AND THEN WE SORT OF MAKE HEROES OF THESE MOMENTS.
WHAT I CAN TELL YOU, QUITE FRANKLY, I HAVE NEVER WORKED WITH USA GYMNASTICS, SO I WANTT.
BUT I CAN TELL YOU THAT THOSE ON THE INSIDE DO KNOW AN ALTERNATIVE NARRATIVE.
THEY ARE AWARE OF THESE REALITIES.
BUT THERE IS SUCH TREMENDOUS PRESSURE.
AND I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THE VERY REAL CONSEQUENCES OF SPEAKING OUT AND COMING FORWARD.
IT'S JUST EASIER TO ACCEPT THE NARRATIVE.
THIS IS WHY YOU HEAR PREVIOUS OLYMPIANS, THIS IS WHY YOU HEAR THE OUTPOURING OF SUPPORT FROM ATHLETES ON THE PROFESSIONAL SIDE AND THE OLYMPICS SIDE RECOGNIZING THESE MOMENTS AS THE TRUE HEROIC MOMENTS.
THEY ARE AUTHENTIC, THEY ARE BRAVE, THEY ARE TRUE, THEY ARE HONEST.
AND I THINK MOST OF US WOULD BE BETTER SERVED TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUE STORY RATHER THAN THE VARNISHED STORY.
AND PERHAPS THAT'S WHY THE INTERNATIONAL OLYMPICS COMMITTEE WAS SO QUICK TO COME OUT AND SAY THEY'RE OFFERING A 24-HOUR HOTLINE AVAILABLE IN 70 LANGUAGES TO HELP SAFEGUARD THESE PLAYERS, THESE ATHLETES, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE SOMEBODY THERE WHO WILL BE OF ASSISTANCE IF THEY NEED SOMEONE TO TALK TO.
VERY QUICKLY BEFORE YOU GO, CAN YOU JUST FINISH THIS SENTENCE FOR ME?
BECAUSE EVERYBODY, ATHLETES AND EVERYDAY PEOPLE HAVE BUTTERFLIES.
YOU SAY BUTTERFLIES ARE IMPORTANT TO HAVE, BUT WHAT?
ABSOLUTELY.
ANY TIME WE DO SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT AND MEANINGFUL AND THE OUTCOME MATTERS, WE ALL EXPERIENCE BUTTERFLIES.
I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO GET RID OF THE BUTTERFLIES, I WANT THEM TO LEARN HOW TO GET THOSE BUTTERFLIES TO FLY IN FORMATION.
I LOVE THAT.
I LOVE THAT AND I LOVE YOUR LOVE PILLOW BEHIND YOU.
DR. HACKER, IT'S BEEN WONDERFUL TALKING TO YOU.
VERY TEACHABLE MOMENTS AS WE WATCH THESE OLYMPIANS.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
> NOW TO THE PANDEMIC.
TODAY PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL ANNOUNCE A VACCINATION REQUIREMENT FOR FEDERAL WORKERS.
THIS AS VACCINE HESITANCY PERSISTS, DESPITE THE RAPID SPREAD OF THE DELTA VARIANT.
IN TENNESSEE, WHERE ONLY 39% ARE FULLY INOCULATED, REPUBLICAN SENATORS ARE URGING PEOPLE TO GET PROTECTED.
BUT THIS DOCTOR SAYS SHE WAS FIRED FROM THE STATE'S HEALTH DEPARTMENT OVER A PUSH TO GET TEENS VACCINATED.
HERE SHE IS SPEAKING ALONGSIDE CRITICAL CARE DOCTOR, JASON MARTIN, ABOUT ALL THE CONTROVERSY.
DR. FISCUS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
FIRST, FOR OUR AUDIENCE MEMBERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT'S BEEN HAPPENING IN TENNESSEE, WHY ARE YOU NOW THE FORMER MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF THE TENNESSEE VACCINE AND IMMUNIZATION PROGRAM?
WHAT LED TO THAT?
THANKS FOR HAVING ME ON, HARI.
I SENT OUT A MEMO TO OUR COVID-19 VACCINE PROVIDERS IN TENNESSEE, LETTING THEM KNOW ABOUT THE MATURE MINOR DOCTRINE IN TENNESSEE, WHICH HAS BEEN IN PLACE SINCE 1987, AND ALLOWS THAT CHILDREN AGES 14 AND OLDER CAN SEEK MEDICAL CARE ON THEIR OWN WITHOUT PARENTAL CONSENT IF THEIR MEDICAL PROVIDER FEELS THAT THAT INDIVIDUAL IS MATURE ENOUGH TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS.
WHAT WERE YOU TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH?
THE MEMO THAT I SENT OUT WAS IN RESPONSE TO REQUESTS FOR INFORMATION FROM THOSE VERY PROVIDERS WHO WANTED TO KNOW, WHAT DO I DO IF A 15-YEAR-OLD DRIVES UP WITH SOME FRIENDS AND ASKS FOR A VACCINE, CAN WE PROVIDE IT TO THEM OR NOT?
AND SO I REACHED OUT TO OUR OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL FOR THAT LANGUAGE AND SHARED THAT.
AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF OUR LEGISLATORS FELT WAS TRYING TO UNDERMINE PARENTAL AUTHORITY, IN WHICH EVENTUALLY LED TO MY TERMINATION FROM THE DEPARTMENT.
THE CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, THEY SAID IT WAS BECAUSE OF, QUOTE, FAILURE TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEMBERS OF HER TEAM, LACK OF EFFECTIVE LEADERSHIP, LACK OF APPROPRIATE MANAGEMENT AND UNWILLINGNESS TO CONSULT WITH SUPERIORS AND OTHER INTERNAL STAKEHOLDERS ON PROJECTS.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?
WELL, I SENT AN EIGHT-PAGE POINT-BY-POINT REBUTTAL TO THAT INFORMATION THAT WAS RELEASED.
INTERESTING THAT THAT LETTER THAT WAS DATED JULY THE 9th WAS NOT SHARED WITH ME AT MY TERMINATION ON JULY THE 12th.
AND THERE ARE ASPECTS OF THAT LETTER THAT ARE DEMONSTRABLY FALSE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE CLAIM THAT I DIDN'T CONSULT WITH LEGAL COUNSEL BEFORE SENDING OUT THE MATURE MINOR DOCTRINE LETTER TO PROVIDERS.
ACTUALLY, THE INFORMATION THAT I SENT OUT WAS PROVIDED TO ME BY THE OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL, THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH.
AND, DR. MARTIN, HOW OFTEN DOES SOMETHING LIKE THIS GET SO HEATED, SO POLITICAL, IN YOUR TIME AS A DOCTOR IN TENNESSEE?
YEAH, THIS IS THE HOTTEST I'VE EVER SEEN THE POLITICAL RHETORIC IN THE STATE OF TENNESSEE, AND CERTAINLY THE MOST CONSEQUENTIAL RHETORIC THAT I'VE WITNESSED IN MY PRACTICE O.
THE DISRUPTION THAT'S TAKING PLACE WITH OUR CHIEF VACCINE OFFICER AND THE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH COULD NOT HAVE COME AT A WORSE TIME FOR TENNESSEANS, IT'S A TIME WHEN, UNFORTUNATELY, VACCINATION ADOPTION HAS BEEN LOW FOR MULTIPLE REASONS, MAINLY BECAUSE OF THE MESSAGING FROM THE EXECUTIVE, I THINK, HAS BEEN INSUFFICIENT.
BUT ALSO WE HAVE THE SPREAD OF THE DELTA VARIANT, AND SO WE HAVE THIS HUGE UNVACCINATED POPULATION THAT'S SUSCEPTIBLE TO THIS DEADLY VARIANT, SO THE DESTRUCTION FROM A POLITICAL TIME FOR US.'T COME AT A WORSE
DR. FISCUS, BUT TENNESSEE IN PERSPECTIVE FOR US.
I'VE HEARD THAT THE VACCINATION RATE IS ABOUT 10% LOWER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.
WHAT IS THE GOAL THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE TENNESSEE AT, AND HOW CAN YOU CHANGE PEOPLE'S MINDS AT THIS POINT?
WELL, I WANT TO SEE EVERY ELIGIBLE TENNESSEAN WHO CAN GET VACCINATED GET VACCINATED.
I THINK WE LOSE PERSPECTIVE ABOUT THE TOLL THAT THIS PANDEMIC HAS TAKEN, THAT WE'VE LOST MORE LIVES THAN WE HAVE IN ANY PANDEMIC OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS, INCLUDING THE 1918 INFLUENZA PANDEMIC.
WE ARE CRUSHING OUR HEALTH CARE SYSTEM, OUR HEALTH CARE WORKERS AND OUR PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE.
I AM THE 25th OF 64 IMMUNIZATION DIRECTORS ACROSS THE COUNTRY TO EITHER LEAVE OR LOSE THEIR JOB OVER THE COURSE OF THE PANDEMIC.
SO THAT'S CRITICAL PUBLIC HEALTH INFRASTRUCTURE THAT'S BEING LOST AT A CRITICAL TIME.
IN TENNESSEE, AND I THINK IN A LOT OF THE SOUTHERN STATES, WE FIND OURSELVES IN PUBLIC HEALTH AT THIS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE SPOT WHERE WE'RE TRYING TO SHARE CDC GUIDANCE AND ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO FOLLOW CDC GUIDANCE, BUT THEN WE HAVE A GROUP OF CITIZEN LEGISLATORS AND ELECTED OFFICIALS WHO ARE MORE INTERESTED IN APPEALING TO THEIR BASE AND THEIR VOTERS AND THINKING ABOUT THEIR NEXT POLITICAL WIN THAN THEY ARE ABOUT LOOKING AT WHAT'S GOING TY VOTING FOR THEM.
DR. MARTIN, IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S A DIRECT CONSEQUENCE WHEN PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS LIKE DR. FISCUS AND HER PEERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY ARE EITHER LEAVING THEIR PROFESSIONS OR BEING FIRED OR PUSHED OUT, IT SEEMS THAT'S THE PREVENTIVE SIDE OF MEDICINE.
AND WHEN THAT DOESN'T WORK, THEY SHOW UP AT YOUR DOOR.
THAT'S RIGHT.
I MEAN, IT'S A TRAGEDY THAT WE'RE LOSING SO MUCH INSTITUTIONAL EXPERTISE BECAUSE WE REALLY NEED THAT EXPERTISE RIGHT NOW TO GET US THROUGH THIS PANDEMIC.
AND WHEN THE PREVENTIVE SIDE OF THE EQUATION FALLS APART, THEN THAT FILLS UP OUR HOSPITALS AND THAT LEADS TO MORE DEATH AND MORE TRAGEDY.
DR. FISCUS, WHAT WAS THE PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT DOING TO TRY TO DECREASE HESITANCY IN SPECIFIC COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE LOWER RATES?
WELL, OUR OFFICE AND THE HEALTH AND DISPARITIES ELIMINATION HAS DONE WORK IN BEING ON THE GROUND AND WORKING WITH FAITH-BASED COMMUNITIES AND ORGANIZATIONS ACROSS THE STATE TO HELP GET HESITANT POPULATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, OUR BLACK OR HISPANIC POPULATIONS VACCINATED, AND HAS JUST DONE A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF WORK, AS HAVE ALL OF THE LOCAL DEPARTMENTS OF HEALTH.
WHERE WE WEREN'T SUCCESSFUL IN BEING ABLE TO MESSAGE OUT WAS JUST PUBLIC, GENERAL PUBLIC MESSAGING ABOUT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE VACCINE, ABOUT MESSAGES TO BUILD VACCINE CONFIDENCE ACROSS THE STATE.
WE HAD ASKED THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOR THAT KIND OF PUBLIC MESSAGING FOR MONTHS BEFORE THE VACCINES WERE EVER AVAILABLE IN TENNESSEE, AND WE JUST WERE KIND OF MESSAGING. PUT OUT ANY SO PUBLIC MESSAGING AROUND GETTING THE VACCINE REALLY DIDN'T EVEN HIT AIRWAVES IN TENNESSEE UNTIL SOMETIME AROUND THE MIDDLE OF MAY, UNFORTUNATELY.
WE COULD HAVE BEEN BUILDING THAT VACCINE CONFIDENCE FOR MONTHS, EVEN PRIOR TO VACCINES BECOMING AVAILABLE TO TENNESSEANS.
DR. MARTIN, THE HESITATION THAT YOU ARE STILL SEEING, WHAT ARE THE REASONS THAT PEOPLE ARE COMING UP WITH TO YOU WHEN THEY END UP IN THE HOSPITAL AND YOU OR YOUR COLLEAGUES ASK THEM WHY DIDN'T YOU GET VACCINATED?
YOU KNOW, AFTER WE BUILD A RAPPORT WITH PATIENTS, I OFTEN DO RESPECTFULLY ASK THEM, WHY DIDN'T YOU GET THE VACCINE, BECAUSE HERE YOU ARE IN THIS LIFE-THREATENING SITUATION.
AND WE HAVE DATA THAT SHOWS THAT THERE'S BASICALLY A PREVENTIVE MEDICATION, WHY DIDN'T YOU TAKE IT?
HAPPEN TO THEM.E THAT THEY JUSTO THE POPULATIONS THAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW ARE YOUNGER THAN THE PREVIOUS WAVE, AND SO I FEEL LIKE THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE GOING TO GET THROUGH THIS WITHOUT HAVING ANY SIGNIFICANT TROUBLE.
SO THEY'RE SURPRISED, THEY'RE HAPPENING.ADDENED BY WHAT'S WE HAD A 20-YEAR-OLD PATIENTS, A PATIENT IN THEIR 20s COME INTO THE HOSPITAL AND THAT PATIENT WAS CRYING ON MY SHOULDER, BASICALLY SAYING THAT THEY WISHED THEY HAD GOTTEN THE VACCINE BECAUSE THEY REALIZE NOW THAT IT WOULD SAVE THEM FROM POTENTIALLY DYING.
AND WHEN YOU HOLD THE HANDS OF SOMEONE LIKE THAT WHO IS CRITICALLY ILL, YOU CAN'T TAKE IT AWAY FROM THEM.
ALL YOU CAN DO IS DO YOUR BEST WITH THE THERAPIES YOU HAVE ONH.
BUT IT'S JUST A SORROW THAT YOU CANNOT DESCRIBE TO SEE SOMEONE SUFFERING THAT WAY WHEN IT'S COMPLETELY PREVENTABLE.
AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS PANDEMIC, THERE WAS LOSS OF LIFE THAT WAS, I THINK, INEVITABLE.
NOW WE KNOW WHAT TO DO AND THAT MAKES THE LOSS OF LIFE SO MUCHMS AFFECTING FOLKS' ADOPTION OF THIS LIFE-SAVING INTERVENTION.
DR. FISCUS, ARE YOU SURPRISED AT SOME OF THESE RUMORS AND CONSPIRACIES, THAT THEY ARE STILL SO PERSISTENT SO LATE IN THIS PANDEMIC?
I'M DISMAYED BY THAT AND THERE ARE SO MANY RUMORS NOT JUST ABOUT THIS VACCINE, BUT ABOUT OTHER CHILDHOOD VACCINES THAT ARE CRITICAL TO THE HEALTH OF CHILDREN AS WELL.
BUT I THINK THE OTHER THING IN TENNESSEE, AND I THINK IN A LOT OF OUR SOUTHERN STATES THAT'S HAPPENING, IS THIS IDEOLOGY THAT IF YOU GET THIS VACCINE, YOU'RE SOMEHOW PLACATING THE LEFT PART OF THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM.
AND SO WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY SEEING IS OUR MOST HESITANT POPULATION IN TENNESSEE IS THE WHITE MALE RURAL CONSERVATIVE AND THAT THEY ARE STATING THAT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO GET THE VACCINE, REALLY, OUT OF SPITE, AND ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR OWN LIVES AND THE LIVES OF PEOPLE THAT THEY LOVE AT RISK BECAUSE THEY FEEL THAT IF THEY GET THE VACCINE, THEN THEY HAVE PLACATED THE LEFT OR DONE WHAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WANTS THEM TO DO.
DR. MARTIN, WHEN I SPEAK TO OTHER DOCTORS HERE IN NEW YORK OR ELSEWHERE, I ALSO DETECT A SHIFT IN THE TONE THAT THERE WAS A GREATER AMOUNT OF PATIENCE AND UNDERSTANDING AT THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC, AND NOW, FRANKLY, THERE'S EXASPERATION, FATIGUE, EVEN A LACK OF EMPATHY FATIGUE, PERHAPS, THAT'S SETTING IN SAYING, COME ON, YOU'VE HAD ACCESS NOW.
AND NOW HERE YOU ARE AND YOUR BEDS ARE FILLING UP AGAIN.
THAT'S RIGHT.
LET ME SORT OF DESCRIBE THE ARC OF EMOTIONS OVER THE LAST 16 MONTHS.
IT'S BEEN AN EXTRAORDINARY TIME.
I WOULD SAY THE BEGINNING OF THE PANDEMIC WAS FILLED WITH FEAR AND ANTICIPATION AND SADNESS, AND ALSO DETERMINATION TO GET THROUGH IT.
AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS, WE SPENT MOST OF OUR LIVES OVER THE LAST 16 MONTHS IN THE HOSPITAL PUTTING OUR OWN PERSONAL SAFETY AT RISK TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE THROUGH THIS.
AND, YOU KNOW, WE HELD UP A LOT OF IPADS WHILE MOMS AND DADS AND BROTHERS AND SISTERS WAILED AT THE LOSS OF THEIR LOVED ONES.
I CAN'T DESCRIBE TO YOU HOW IMPACTFUL THOSE MOMENTS ARE.
IF YOU'VE NEVER BEEN THERE, I WANT TO CONVEY TO PEOPLE, IT IS INCREDIBLY IMPACTFUL TO EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM, THE FAMILY, THE PATIENT, OBVIOUSLY, THE HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS.
AND THEN AS WE WORKED THROUGH THAT OVER THE SUBSEQUENT YEAR, REALLY, WE GOT TO A PLACE A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO WHERE WE FELT LIKE WE HAD SUCCEEDED.
WE GOT TO ZERO COVID PATIENTS IN THE HOSPITALS I WORK AT.
AND NOW WE FEEL COVID CREEPING BACK INTO OUR COMMUNITY.
WE SEE SICK PEOPLE COMING IN, WE'RE HAVING TO INTUBATE PATIENTS AGAIN AND CRY WITH THEIR LOVED ONES AS THEY PASS AWAY AGAIN.
AND WE'RE JUST THINKING, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS WAY.
WHY ARE WE DOING THIS AGAIN?
THERE IS A FIX TO THIS PROBLEM.
IT'S WIDELY AVAILABLE.
IT'S FREE, IT'S SAFE.
WHY CAN'T PEOPLE STAND UP, SPEAK THE TRUTH, AND MAKE IT A PRIORITY TO SAVE THE HEALTH AND LIFE OF TENNESSEANS BY TELLING PEOPLE TO GET THIS VACCINE?
DR. FISCUS, I KNOW YOU'RE A TRAINED PEDIATRICIAN AND YOU MIGHT GO BACK TO DOING THIS.
RIGHT NOW THERE'S A LOT OF PARENTS AROUND THE COUNTRY CONCERNED, ESPECIALLY WITH CHILDREN WHO ARE UNDER 12, SAYING, IS THIS A CRAP SHOOT HERE?
SHOULD I BE SENDING MY CHILD BACK TO A BUILDING?
WILL A MASK BE ENOUGH?
ARE KIDS STRONGER THAN ADULTS?
I MEAN, EVEN IF THE DATA SAYS THAT THERE'S VERY FEW KIDS THAT GET VERY BADLY SICK, A PARENT SAYS I DON'T WANT MY CHILD TO BE THAT ONE IN A MILLION, RIGHT?
RIGHT, AND IT'S NOT ONE IN A MILLION THAT GETS SICK.
IN TENNESSEE WE'VE HAD 200 KIDS THAT HAVE FALLEN VICTIM TO MULTI-SYSTEM INFLAMMATORY SYNDROME IN CHILDREN, WHICH PUTS THESE KIDS IN INTENSIVE CARE UNITS, ON DIALYSIS, ON VENTILATORS, AND GIVES THEM WHAT MAY BE PERMANENT HEART DAMAGE.
THAT'S WAY MORE COMMON THAN ONE IN A MILLION TYPE OF ISSUE.
FOR PARENTS WHO HAVE CHILDREN WHO ARE 12 AND OLDER, THEY NEED TO GET THEM VACCINATED.
FOR THOSE THAT ARE NOT ELIGIBLE YET, HOPEFULLY WE'LL GET AN FDA UA SOON FOR AT LEAST THE 5 TO 11 GROUP.
BUT I WOULD NOT BE SENDING MY CHILD TO SCHOOL WITHOUT A MASK.
EVEN IF THEY'RE VACCINATED, THESE CHILDREN ARE GOING TO BE SITTING IN SMALL SPACES, SEVEN AND A HALF HOURS A DAY, UNABLE TO DISTANCE THEMSELVES FROM THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM, AND THOSE THAT ARE 11 AND UNDER ARE REALLY SITTING DUCKS WITH THIS DELTA VARIANT THAT IS MORE INFECTIOUS AND MORE -- IS CAUSING MORE ILLNESS IN CHILDREN AND WE'RE SEEING THAT ACROSS THE STATES WITH CHILDREN BEING ADMITTED, BEING ADMITTED TO INTENSIVE CARE UNITS, WHERE WE DIDN'T SEE THAT EARLIER IN THE PANDEMIC WITH THE INITIAL STRAINS.
DR. FISCUS, THAT SEEMS TO BE ONE OF THE SORT OF STICKING POINTS WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST VACCINATIONS, OH, LOOK, THE CDC SAID WE DIDN'T NEED MASKS, THEN THEY SAID WE DID, THEN THEY SAID WE DIDN'T AND NOW THEY SAY WE DO AGAIN.
IT'S HARD, IT'S REALLY HARD FOR THE PUBLIC BECAUSE NO SCIENCE IS EVER SETTLED, AND IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE PUBLIC IS LISTENING TO CREDIBLE SOURCES OF INFORMATION, AND UNDERSTANDS THAT IT'S A GOOD THING THAT RECOMMENDATIONS ARE CHANGING, BECAUSE THAT MEANS WE'RE LEARNING.
WHAT'S UNFORTUNATE IS WHEN WE HEAR ELECTED OFFICIALS SAY WE WON'T ISSUE ANOTHER MASK MANDATE OR WE WON'T CLOSE DOWN THE ECONOMY AGAIN, BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THINGS ARE GOING TO LOOK LIKE IN TWO OR THREE OR FOUR WEEKS FROM NOW, AND SO TO MAKE THOSE DECLARATIONS WHEN WE DON'T KNOW WHAT DELTA IS GOING TO DO AND LAMBDA AFTER THAT, AND UNDERSTANDING THAT UNTIL WE GET EVERYONE VACCINATED, WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE THESE MORE VIRULENT STRAINS COME THROUGH, WE HAVE GOT TO BE NIMBLE IN OUR RESPONSE TO THAT.
AND HOPEFULLY THE PUBLIC WILL BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THAT.
DR. MARTIN, WHAT HAS THIS BEEN LIKE FOR YOU?
YOU? IS THE TOLL IT'S TAKEN ON YOUR FAMILY, IF I WAS ASKING THEM FIVE YEARS FROM NOW, WHAT DID COVID DO TO JASON MARTIN?
IT'S BEEN AWFUL.
AND AS PART OF MY JOB AS A CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN, I'M ACCUSTOMED TO DEALING WITH DEATH, BUT NOT THIS MUCH.
NOT THIS MUCH DEATH.
IT SEEMS EVERY DAY I HAVE TO HOLD UP AN iPAD AND LISTEN TO SOMEONE SAY GOOD-BYE.
AND THIS IS NOT JUST ME.
IT'S ALL THE FOLKS ON THE FRONT LINES.
IT'S HARD TO BE POSITIVE AND CHIPPER WHEN YOU GO HOME AFTER A REALLY BAD DAY IN THE ICU.
IT'S HARD TO BE PRESENT FOR YOUR KIDS WHEN YOU'RE EMOTIONALLY STRUGGLING.
SO IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT JOURNEY FOR US, BUT WE'RE COMMITTED TOD.
DR. FISCUS, THIS WEEK NEW YORK TOOK A STEP, GOVERNOR CUOMO SAID STATE EMPLOYEES HERE, THAT THEY HAD TO BE VACCINATED.
AND YOU EVEN HAD THE GOVERNOR OF ALABAMA WHO SAID OUTRIGHT THAT IT'S THE UNVACCINATED FOLKS THAT ARE LETTING US DOWN.
WHAT COMBINATION, DR. FISCUS, IS GOING TO WORK HERE, CARROT STICK, PRESSURE?
HOW DO YOU GET THROUGH AND IS THAT THE RIGHT TRACK?
YES, I THINK IT'S THE TIME FOR STICKS IN SOME CASES.
AND TO HAVE HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS OR INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE WORKING IN NURSING HOMES WHO HAVE REFUSED TO BE VACCINATED WHO ARE PUTTING NOT ONLY THEMSELVES, BUT THE PATIENTS THEY'RE CARING FOR AT RISK ON A CONTINUING BASIS, IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
AND THERE ARE OTHER REQUIREMENTS WHEN YOU WORK IN HEALTH CARE.
YOU CAN'T SMOKE INSIDE A HOSPITAL, AND IF YOU WANT TO SMOKE INSIDE A HOSPITAL THEN YOU DON'T GET TO WORK THERE.
THIS IS THE SAME KIND OF HEALTH THREAT, AND SO REQUIRING HEALTH CARE WORKERS, REQUIRING FEDERAL WORKERS, REQUIRING STATE WORKERS TO BE VACCINATED OR FIND ANOTHER ROLE FOR THEIR EMPLOYMENT, I THINK, IS SOMETHING WHERE WE'RE THERE AT THIS POINT, BECAUSE THE OTHER THINGS JUST HAVEN'T GOTTEN -- ESPECIALLY STATES LIKE TENNESSEE, TO GET THE VACCINATION NUMBERS UP YET.
DR. MICHELLE FISCUS, DR. JASON MARTIN, THANK YOU BOTH.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
BECOME THE SMALLEST NATION TO WIN AN OLYMPIC MEDAL.
SHOT HER WAY TO BRONZE IN WOMEN'S TRAP SHOOTING.
THE MEDAL IS AN OLYMPIC FIRST FOR SAN MARINO.
AND EARLIER THIS WEEK DUFFY SCORED A SIMILAR ACHIEVEMENT FOR BERMUDA STRIKING GOLD IN THE WOMEN'S TRIATHLON.
CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL COUNTRIES SMALL AND LARGE ALIKE.
> AND THAT SIT FOR OUR PROGRA.
REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.
THANKS FOR WATCHING.
AND JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
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