June 20, 2022

> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

TO HONOR THE TROU MEANING OF JUNETEENTH MEANS WE MUST DELIVER THE PROMISE TO ALL AMERICANS.

> THE UNITED STATES MARKS JUNETEENTH, COMMEMORATING THE END OF SLAVERY.

BUT WHERE IS THE COUNTRY REALLY ON THAT ROAD TO TRUE RACIAL EQUALITY AND FREEDOM?

RENOWNED PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES, CAROLE ANDERSON, JOINS ME.

THEN --

PEOPLE JUST HAVEN'T BEEN TOLD WHAT DANGERS THEY MAY FACE.

Reporter: CHERNOBYL, THE LOST TAPES.

THE UNTOLD STIER STORIES AND LIES BEHIND THE WORLD'S WORST NUCLEAR DISASTER.

PLUS.

> WE WERE A RESPONSE.

THE REMARKABLE STORY OF THE JANES, THE WOMEN PROVIDING UNDERGROUND ABORINGS IN A PRE-ROE AMERICA.

AND FINALLY --

I WAS READY TO AN ACTRESS AND I WANTED TO GET A PLAY OR A MOVIE OR ANYTHING.

JUST TO -- TO ACT -- EXERCISE MY TALENT.

Reporter: AS ANGELA LANSBURY RECEIVED A TONY, WE HONOR THE ACTRESS WITH THROWBACK.

> 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III.

THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY.

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THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION.

JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.

BERNARD AND IRENE SCHWARTZ.

COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

WE TRY TO LIVE IN THE MOMENT, TO NOT MISS WHAT IS RIGHT MANY FRONT OF US.

AT MUTUAL OF AMERICA, WE BELIEVE TAKING CARE OF TOMORROW CAN HELP YOU MAKE THE MOST OF TODAY.

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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

EVERYONE.

I AM SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

CELEBRATING FREEDOM.

TODAY, THE UNITED STATES MARKS JUNETEENTH WITH THE FEDERAL HOLIDAY COMMEMORATING THE EMANCIPATION OF ENSLAVED AFRICAN AMERICANS.

IT HONORS THE DAY THE LAST SLAVES IN GALVESTON, TEXAS, LEARNED THEY WERE FREE JUNE 19th, 1865.

HERE IS PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

> JUNETEENTH MARKS BOTH THE LONG, HARD NIGHT OF SLAVERY AND SUBJUGATION, AND THE PROMISE OF A BRIGHTER MORNING TO COME.

A DAY OF PROFOUND WEIGHT AND POWER.

THAT REMINDS OF THE EXTRAORDINARY CAPACITY TO HEAL AND HOPE AND EMERGE THE MOST PAINFUL MOMENTS INTO A BETTER VERSION OF OURSELVES.

THE VALUES AT THE HEART OF JUNETEENTH -- FREEDOM AND EQUALITY -- ARE ONCE AGAIN IN SHRP SHARP FOCUS IN THIS COUNTRY.

NOT LONG AFTER THE RACIST MASSACRE IN BUFFALO IN WHICH TEN BLACK PEOPLE WERE MURDERED BY A WHITE SUPREMACIST AND A TIME WHEN INFLATION IS LIKELY TO FURTHER ENTRENCH RACIAL INEQUALITY.

SO WHERE IS AMERICA NOW ON THE LONG ROAD TO PROGRESS?

CAROLE ANDERSON HAS WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ON RACIAL-JUSTICE ISSUES AND IS IT PROFESSOR OF AFRICAN AMERICAN STUDIES AT EMERY UNIVERSITY.

PROFESSOR, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON THE SHOW.

HAPPY JUNETEENTH.

UM, THIS IS THE SECOND YEAR NOW THAT IT IS KMEM RATED AS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY.

HOW SIGNIFICANT IS THAT DATE?

IS THE FACT THAT THE COUNT VI NOW CELEBRATING IT AS A FEDERAL HOLIDAY -- ESPECIALLY, FOR YOU, AS AN EDUCATOR?

UM, IT IS VERY SIGNIFICANT.

UM, WHAT MAKES IT SO SIGNIFICANT IS THAT IT REMINDS OF HOW FAR WE HAVE COME, AND HOW MUCH FURTHER WE NEED TO GO.

UM, HAVING THAT CONSISTENT REMINDER IS -- IS THE KIND OF SPUR THAT THIS NATION NEEDS.

PARTICULARLY, AS YOU SEE STATES TRYING TO ERASE THE TEACHING OF REAL-AMERICAN HISTORY.

WHAT ROLE HAS CRITICAL-RACE THEORY PLAYED IN THIS JOURNEY TO TEACHING AMERICANS ITS RACIAL HISTORY DOES RACIST PATH, AND ON THAT ROAD TO -- TO A MORE RACIALLY JUST SOCIETY.

UM, I THINK CRITICAL-RACE THEORY WAS A POWERFUL AND IS A POWERFUL, ANALYTICAL TOOL USED IN -- IN LEGAL THEORY.

UM, BUT WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IS THE -- THE LANGUAGE OF CRITICAL-RACE THEORY BEING USED TO COVER THE TEACHING OF AMERICAN HISTORY.

THE TEACHING OF SLAVERY.

THE TEACHING OF JIM CROW.

THE TEACHING OF LYNCHING.

THE TEACHING OF THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

UM, IT IS DESIGNED TO CREATE A NARRATIVE OF A NATION THAT WAS BORN FULLY WHOLE AND FULLY PERFECT.

AND SO, YOU DON'T SEE THE STRUGGLES, YOU DON'T SEE THE INEQUITIES.

YOU DON'T SEE THE INJUSTICES.

HOW DIVISIVE HAS THAT COME AND TURNED INTO, IN TERMS OF WHAT WE HAVE COVERED OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS FOLLOWING THE MURDER OF GEORGE FLOYD?

THE DISCUSSION AT LEAST OF POLICE REFORM.

AS WE HAVE SEEN MORE PROTESTS IN THE COUNTRY, THERE WAS HOPE THAT FINALLY, THE COUNTRY HAD REACHED A TURNING POINT IN -- IN AT LEAST HANDLING AND ADDRESSING THIS ISSUE.

ARE YOU MORE OPTIMISTIC TODAY THAN YOU WERE TWO YEARS AGO?

OR NOT AS MUCH.

WHAT I AM SEEING IS A CONSISTENT PATTERN IN THE U.S.

WHERE WE HAVE THESE MOMENTS OF INCREDIBLE MOVEMENT FORWARD.

AND THEN, WE GET THIS POWERFUL BACKLASH.

UM, PARTICULARLY, IN TERMS OF VIOLENCE AND IN TERMS OF PUBLIC POLICY.

WE SAW IT AFTER -- AFTER THE CIVIL WAR WHERE YOU HAVE RECONSTRUCTION BUT THEN YOU HAVE THIS INCREDIBLE VIOLENCE RAINING DOWN ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY THERE.

KEEPING THEM -- TRYING TO KEEP THEM FROM THE BALLOT BOX.

TRYING TO KEEP THEM FROM -- FROM OWNING LAND.

TRYING TO KEEP THEM FROM ENGAGING IN THEIR FULL-AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.

UM, WE SEE THIS KIND OF BACKLASH HAPPENING AFTER THE GREAT MIGRATION.

AFTER THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT.

AFTER THE BROWN DECISION.

AND AFTER OBAMA.

SO, WHAT WE ARE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS YET ANOTHER WAVE OF THAT BACKLASH -- WHAT I HAVE CALLED WHITE RAGE.

VOTING RIGHTS IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR YOU.

WE'VE NOW HAD TWO ELECTIONS WITHOUT THE PROTECTION OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

1965.

WE HAVE 19 STATE NOW INTRODUCING LAWS TO RESTRICT VOTING IN 2021 FOLLOWING PRESIDENT BIDEN'S ELECTION.

UM, WHAT IS YOUR BIGGEST CONCERN IN TERMS OF VOTING RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY RIGHT NOW?

MY BIGGEST CONCERN IS THAT WE HAVE A NATION THAT IS DIVIDED.

WE HAVE STATES, LIKE NEW YORK, THAT -- THAT ARE PASSING THE JOHN LEWIS VOTING RIGHTS ACT WHERE IT IS REALLY CODIFYING AND PROTECTING THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

AND THEN, YOU HAVE STATES, UM, LIKE TEXAS, LIKE GEORGIA, THAT ARE LOOKING AT WAYS THAT ARE PASSING LAWS TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO KEEP THE VOTE DOWN.

AND IF YOU CAN'T KEEP THE VOTE DOWN, THEN HOW DO YOU MAINTAIN WHO -- WHO GETS TO COUNT THE VOTE?

UM, AND SO, YOU ARE LOOKING AT A WAY TO SUBVERT TRUE DEMOCRACY.

UM, THIS IS WHERE WE ARE.

THIS IS WHAT I AM AFRAID OF.

UM, AND IT WAS WATCHING CONGRESS DILLY-DALLY AND NOT PASS THE KIND OF FEDERAL PROTECTIONS THAT WE NEEDED IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT THE RIGHT TO VOTE IS ACCEPTED AS THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

YOU MENTIONED TEXAS.

YOU KNOW, THEIR GOP, THE STATE GOP PLATFORM NOT ONLY FLOATED THE IDEA OF SECEDING BUT ALSO SUPPORTING THE REPEAL OF THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT.

YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT AND -- AND IT COMES AT A TIME WHEN, EVEN IN -- IN YOUR HOME STATE, GEORGIA -- LISTEN.

GEORGIA HAD A RECORD-BREAKING VOTER TURNOUT AT PRIMARIES IN MAY.

AND SO, YOU HAVE SOME REPUBLICANS POINTING TO THAT SAYING THAT VOTER SUPPRESSION REALLY ISN'T AN ISSUE, AND THAT IT IS BEING HYPED UP BY THE DEMOCRATS.

UM, CAN BOTH BE TRY, AT THE STAM TIME?

CAN YOU MAKE THE ARGUMENT THERE ARE SOME FACTIONS OF THE PARTY THAT ARE TRYING TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE ASK OTHERS PERHAPS THAT ARE JUST MORE FOCUSED ON ELECTION SECURITY?

WHAT WE CAN MAKE THE ARGUMENT IS IS THAT THE -- THERE IS A CONSISTENT MOVEMENT TO SUPPRESS THE VOTE.

AND WHAT YOU ARE SEEING IN THAT MASSIVE VOTER' TURNOUT IS THE WORK OF CIVIL SOCIETY.

IT IS THE WORK OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE KNOCKING ON DOORS, REGISTERING FOLKS TO VOTE, GETTING TO PEOPLE, THE CORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT WHEN YOU CAN REGISTER.

HOW TO REGISTER.

HOW TO USE AN ABSENTEE BALLOT.

GETTING FOLKS THE YDSS THEY NEED.

AND SO, TO TALK ABOUT A MASSIVE VOTER' TURNOUT, WITHOUT LOOKING AT THE INCREDIBLE ROLE OF SIVL SOCIETY, AND OVERCOMING THE OBSTACLES THAT THESE THESE STATES HAVE PUT IN SPLAS TO DO A DISSERVICE TO THE PEOPLE WHO ARE DOING THE HEAVY LIFTING OF DEMOCRACY.

SO GLAD WE HAVE YOU ON BECAUSE THREE MAJOR TOPICS THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH IN THIS COUNTRY, YOU HAVE BECOME AN EXPERT AT.

YOU HAVE WRITTEN BOOKS ON.

WHITE RAGE.

ONE PERSON, NO VOTE.

HOW VOTER SUPPRESSION IS DESTROYING OUR DEMOCRACY.

THE SECOND, RACE AND GUNS IN A FATALLY UNEQUAL AMERICA.

YOU AND I DISCUSSED THAT BOOK LAST YEAR AT GREAT LENGTH.

AND HERE, WE TALK ABOUT ANOTHER MASS SHOOTING IN THIS COUNTRY.

SEVERAL.

UM, BUT -- BUT LET'S FOCUS ON BUFFALO PAUSE THAT -- THAT TARGETED A BLACK COMMUNITY ASK THAT GUNNED DOWN BLACK GROCERY SHOPPERS.

HOW -- ANSWER THE QUESTION THERE BUT HOW DO YOU MOVE FORWARD IN A COUNTRY THAT IS NOT ONLY PLAGUED BY MASS GUN VIOLENCE?

BUT ALSO, STILL IN ON ANN ERA WHERE WHITE SUPREMACISTS DO HAVE ACCESS TO THESE TYPES OF VIOLENT WEAPONS?

WHAT YOU DO IS YOU LEARN THAT YOU NEVER GIVE UP.

YOU LEARN THAT YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE IMAGINATION OF WHAT THIS NATION COULD BE.

A FULLY VIBRANT, MULTIRACIAL, MULTIETHNIC, MULTIRELIGIOUS DEMOCRACY.

AND YOU KEEP THAT VISION IN YOUR HEAD AND IN THE WORK THAT YOU DO.

THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T GIVE UP.

IF WE GAVE UP, THEN THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS WHO ARE HOLLERING 'GREAT REPLACEMENT THEORY,' THEY WOULD WIN AND TURN THIS NATION INTO SOMETHING BACK TO 1850 AND WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

WHERE DOES YOUR HOPE COME FROM?

AND WHERE DOES YOUR OPTIMISM COME FROM?

UM, TIME AND TIME, AGAIN, THIS COUNTRY IS FACING, IT SEEMS, ONE CRISIS AFTER ANOTHER.

UM, MORE RACIAL INJUSTICE, MORE VIOLENCE, MORE MASS SHOOTINGS, PERHAPS ANOTHER RECESSION ON THE HORIZON.

FOR YOU, AS AN -- AS A HISTORIAN AND AS A PROFESSOR WHO IS TEACHING YOUNG AMERICANS, WHERE DOES THAT OPTIMISM COME FROM?

BECAUSE IT'S SO IMPORTANT.

UM, IT COMES FROM THE STUDENTS THAT I TEACH.

IT COMES FROM THE HISTORY WHERE YOU SEE FOLKS WHO ARE LOOKING INTO THE -- THE ABYSS OF SLAVERY.

AND THEY CAN IMAGINE FREEDOM ASK FIGHT FOR THAT FREEDOM.

YOU SEE THE FOLKS WHO ARE DEALING WITH THE HELL OF JIM CROW, THE BRUTALITY OF JIM CROW AND THEY ARE DETERMINED TO BE AMERICAN CITIZENS.

TO, IN FACT, LIVE INTO THEIR FULL AMERICAN CITIZENSHIP.

AND SO, WHEN YOU SEE THAT FIGHT, WHEN YOU SEE THAT DETERMINATION, YOU JUST KEEP FIGHTING.

YOU JUST KEEP GOING FORWARD.

EVEN IN THE MIDST OF AN INSURRECTION AND HEARING NOW, THAT THE BIG QUESTION IS LOOMING.

THE EVIDENCE IS THERE AND IT IS QUITE DAMNING.

AND YET, THE QUESTION REMAINS WILL IT RESONATE WITH HALF OF THE COUNTRY?

WILL IT BREAK THROUGH NOT ONLY ABOUT THEIR VIEWS ON ONE MAN, DONALD TRUMP, BUT WHETHER THIS COUNTRY CAN AVOID ANOTHER INSURRECTION IN 2024 OR YEARS AFTER?

ANOTHER ATTEMPT TO SUBVERT DEMOCRACY.

HOW WORRIED ARE YOU THAT -- THAT WE COULD SEE THIS HAPPEN YET AGAIN?

I AM WORRIED.

UM, AND THAT IS WHY THE CONSISTENT MOBILIZATION IS SO IMPORTANT TO GET FOLKS TO THE POLLS, TO VOTE IN SUCH NUMBERS THAT IT CAN'T BE DENIED.

SO THAT SOMEBODY CAN'T CALL UP ASKING FOR 11,780 VOTES.

UM, SO THAT YOU'VE GOT THIS -- THIS -- AND THE -- AND THE LAYING OUT OF WHAT THE BIG LIE WAS.

BECAUSE THEY IDENTIFIED CITIES LIKE ATLANTA, PHILADELPHIA, DETROIT, AND MILWAUKEE AS THE SUPPOSED SITES OF MASSIVE VOTER FRAUD.

WELL, THOSE CITIES HAVE SIZEABLE MINORITY POPULATIONS AND SO WHAT THE BIG LIE IS SAYING IS THAT THERE ARE ONLY SOME AMERICANS WHO ARE REAL AMERICANS WHO SHOULD BE VOTING.

AND SO, WHAT I REALLY WANT THIS JANUARY-6th COMMITTEE TO BE ABLE TO RESONATE WITH IS HOW WE HAD A GROUP TRY TO OVERTHROW THE VOTES OF 81 MILLION AMERICAN CITIZENS AND THOSE SIT INCIDENCE WERE LEGAL.

THOSE CITIZENS WERE IN ATLANTA.

THOSE CITIZENS WERE IN PHILADELPHIA.

THEY WERE IN DETROIT.

THEY WERE IN MILWAUKEE.

THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND AND -- AND EMBRACE BECAUSE WHAT THAT WAS WAS AN ATTACK ON THE -- THE -- THE CITIZENSHIP OF AMERICAN CITIZENS.

AN ATTACK FROM WITHIN, QUITE LITERALLY.

PROFESSOR CAROL ANDERSON, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR COMING ON, FOR YOUR EXPERTISE, AND AS ALWAYS FOR YOUR OPTIMISM.

WE NEED IT IN DAYS LIKE THESE, MORE THAN EVER.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

> WELL NOW.

A STARK WARNING FROM UKRAINE'S PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY WHO SAYS HIS COUNTRY SHOULD EXPECT GREATER HOSTILE ACTIVITY FROM RUSSIA.

IT COMES AS VLADIMIR PUTIN CONTINUES TO FOCUS FORCES ON THE DONBAS REGION.

PREVIOUSLY, HE TARGETED OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY BEFORE BEING PUSHED BACK, INCLUDING CHERNOBYL, SITE OF THE WORLD'S WORST NUCLEAR DISASTER.

THE TRUE DEATH TOLL FROM THE 1986 SPLOELGZ HAS BEEN DIFFICULT TO KWOONT FIE BECAUSE OF THE LONG-LAST BEING EFFECTS OF RADIOACTIVE POLLUTION.

BUT NOW, A NEW DOCUMENTARY SHEDS LIGHT ON THE LENGTHS THE SOVIET GOVERNMENT TO HIDE WHAT HEAPED TO THE REST OF THE WORLD.

HERE IS A CLIP FROM THE TRAILER.

[ SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE ]

> CHERNOBYL THE LOST TAPES' DIRECTOR JOINS ME NOW FROM LONDON.

JAMES, GREAT TO HAVE YOU ON.

FIRST OF ALL, JUST PHENOMENAL FILM.

I COULD NOT BELIEVE MY EYES.

I THOUGHT I HAD READ UP A GREAT DEAL ON THE HISTORY OF CHERNOBYL AND WHAT LED UP TO IT AND SUBSEQUENT AFTERMATH BUT YOU REVEALED DETAILS THAT I -- I DIDN'T KNOW AND I THINK SO IMPORTANT FOR THE WORLD TO SEE.

WHAT DREW YOU TO THIS PROJECT?

YES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR HAVING ME.

YEAH.

I MEAN, LIKE MANY PEOPLE, I HAVE HAD A FASCINATION WITH CHERNOBYL BUT THOUGHT THE SUBJECT HAD BEEN COVERED SO EXTENSIVELY OVER THE YEAR, THERE WAS NOTHING MORE TO SAY.

AND THEN AT THE BEGINNING OF LOCKDOWN IN SPRING 2020, I FINALLY GOT AROUND TO READING A COUPLE BOOKS ON CHERNOBYL THAT HAD ALWAYS BEEN RECOMMENDED TO ME.

AND THERE WAS A FOOTNOTE THAT REFERENCED SOME FOOTAGE IN THE FILM WHICH IS SHOT IN THE HOURS AFTER THE ACCIDENT.

SO THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED ON A FRIDAY NIGHT, AND THIS WAS SHOT OVER THE WEEKEND AND IT IS THIS KIND OF GLORIOUS, SUNNY SPRING MORNING AND YOU SEE MUMS PUSHING THEIR BABIES IN STROLLERS, KIDS PLAYING, EATING ICE CREAMS, THERE IS A WEDDING AND IT IS JUST KIND OF BLISSFUL AND IDYLLIC.

AND THEN, YOU SEE WHITE WHITE FLASHES APPEAR ON THE FILM AND YOU REALIZE THOSE WHITE FLASHES ARE BECAUSE THE RADIATION IS INCREDIBLY HIGH.

AND THESE PEOPLE ARE CARRYING ON COMPLETELY INNOCENT.

AND GRADUALLY, YOU SEE SPRAYING DOWN THE STREETS AND PEOPLE CARRY ON AS NORMAL AND IT IS JUST CHILLING AND JUST LIKE ENCAPSULATED THIS AND THE KIND OF DAMAGE THAT WAS DONE THROUGH THIS.

AND JUST MADE ME WONDER, LIKE, IF THAT WAS FILMED AFTER, WHAT ELSE EXISTS, YOU KNOW?

WELL, IT TOOK 36 HOURS, UNTIL THE FIRST CITIZENS THERE WERE EVACUATED AND YOU MENTIONED THE VIDEO IMAGES OF THE FLASHES, THE SORT OF GEIGER READING, RIGHT, WHERE YOU CAN JUST SEE HIGH LEVELS OF RADIATION.

OBVIOUSLY, IT IS INVISIBLE BUT THE FILM ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE AN IDEA AT LEAST OF HOW TOXIC THAT AIR WAS AT THE TIME.

WE HAVE A CLIP OF IT BECAUSE I WANT OUR VIEWERS TO SEE HOW UNASSUMING ALL OF THE CITIZENS WERE OF THE TRAGEDY THAT THEY WERE LIVING THROUGH.

IT -- IT'S CHILLING TO SEE LIFE GOING ON AS IF EVERYTHING WERE NORMAL WHEN IT WAS CLEAR THAT THAT WAS NOT THE CASE.

AND IT WAS CLEAR AT THAT POINT, MOSCOW AND THE KREMLIN HAD BEEN MADE AWARE OF THE TRAGEDY AND THE ACCIDENT THAT HAD TAKEN PLACE JUST HOURS BEFORE.

AND NOT ONLY MOSCOW BUT CAPITALS AROUND EUROPE AND, THUS, THE REST OF THE WORLD SOON LEARNED OF THIS EXPLOSION.

DO YOU, AS A DIRECTOR, AND AS A FILMMAKER NOW HAVING SPENT SO MUCH TIME ON THIS, DO YOU GET A SENSE THAT THIS WAS JUST INEPT RESPONSES FROM -- FROM MOSCOW.

OR WAS THIS STRATEGIC REACTION TO NOT WANTING TO CAUSE ANY MORE EMBARRASSMENT THAN ALREADY HAD UNFOLDED AND BEEN UNLEASHED, GIVEN THAT THIS WITH US WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE COLD WAR BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND THE SOVIET UNION.

YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.

THE NUCLEAR INDUSTRY, BOTH WEAPONS AND NUCLEAR ENERGY WERE A SOURCE OF GREAT PRIDE, UM, IN THE SOVIET UNION.

THIS TOWN AROUND CHERNOBYL WAS SEEN AS THIS KIND OF BRIGHT VISION OF THE FUTURE THEY WERE BUILDING TOWARDS.

SO FOR AN ACCIDENT TO HAPPEN HERE WAS KIND OF DEEPLY SHAMING BOTH KIND OF INTERNALLY AND REPUTATIONLY.

AND THEY, YOU KNOW, THE REASON THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED WAS BECAUSE THEY COVERED UP FLAWS IN THE REACTOR.

THEY DIDN'T DEAL WITH THEM.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND THE MONEY.

THEY DIDN'T HAVE THE RESOURCES AND THAT LED TO EXPLOSION AND MELTDOWN.

IN TERMS OF THE CONSEQUENCES, THE COVERUP, TELLING PEOPLE THEIR CANCER, THEIR HAIR FALLING OUT.

ALL THEIR ILLNESSES HAD NOTHING TO WO DO WITH RADIATION SHOWING IT WAS A TRIGGER FOR THE CLAPS OF THE SOVIET UNION.

SO I THINK IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, THE SOVIET UNION WAS KIND OF FOUNDED ON CONTROLLING DISINFORMATION AND CHERNOBYL PUSHED THAT TO ITS LIMITS.

IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY A TIME OF OPENNESS, OF STARTING TO TELL THE TRUTH AFTER YEARS OF KIND OF LIES AND OPPRESSION.

AND ACTUALLY, CHERNOBYL REVEALED THAT WAS A LIE IN ITSELF, AND THIS COVERUP WAS TRULY SHOCKING.

ITSELF INTERESTING TO ME TO SEE ALL THIS FOOTAGE CAME ABOUT BECAUSE THE KREMLIN HOPED TO TOCK DOCUMENT AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE TO SHOW THEY WERE SO QUICK AND SUCCESSFUL IN RESPONDING TO THIS TYPE OF CRISIS IN WAY THAT PERHAPS WESTERN DEMOCRATIC COUNTRIES WOULDN'T BE.

AND THUS, YOU WERE PRIVY AND WE WERE PRIVY AS VIEWERS, TO SEE THIS REAL-LIFE DOCUMENTATION OF THE HOURS FALLING THE TRAGEDY.

UM, THERE ARE SOME CHARACTERS AND -- AND RESIDENTS BOTH IN THE AREA AND OBVIOUSLY OUT OF MOSCOW.

A GENERAL WHO WAS OVERSEEING THE CLEANUP, AND FAMILIES WHO WERE IMPACTED ON THE GROUND THERE THAT LIVED IN THE AREA.

WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF THE GENERAL WHO IS A PROMINENT FIGURE IN -- IN THIS -- IN HISTORY AND ALSO IN YOUR FILM.

TALK ABOUT HIM AND THE ROLE THAT HE PLAYED IN OVERSEEING THE -- THE RECOVERY.

YEAH.

SO HE IS AN INTERESTING PERSON IN THAT HE -- AS YOU SAID, HE IS A HIGH-RANKING GENERAL, MOSCOW BASED AS OPPOSED TO UKRAINIAN, WHICH MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO DEALT WITH THE FALLOUT WERE.

AND HE BASICALLY WAS ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT CAME UP WITH THE IDEA THEY HAVE TO CLEAR THE ROOF OF THE KIND OF RADIOACTIVE GRAPHITE.

AND THIS FOOTAGE THAT WE HAVE -- WE'VE SHOW IN THE FILM WHERE MEN ARE SENT UP THERE TO -- TO BLASK BASICALLY CLEAR THE ROOF OF THIS RADIOACTIVE GRAPHITE.

WHICH WILL THEN COVER UP AND TRIED TO DO THIS ROBOTS.

THE ROBOTS BROKE DOWN BECAUSE ITSELF TOO RADIOACTIVE.

AND SO, THEY CAME UP WITH UNDERSTAND OF USING WHAT THEY CALL BIO-ROBOTS, WHICH BLASK BASICALLY MEANT SENDING MEN UP THERE VERY LITTLE PROTECTION INTO INSANELY RADIOACTIVE AREAS.

SO WOULD SAY I THINK THIS IS THE ONLY OPTION THEY HAVE BUT CERTAINLY ONLY THE SOVIET UNION COULD DEAL WITH THIS TRAGEDY AND IN A SENSE, THAT IS TRUE BECAUSE THEY BASICALLY TOOK THE DECISION TO JUST BURY THE REACTOR WITH BODIES.

YOU KNOW, THEY SACRIFICED MEN TO CLEAN IT UP IN WAYS THAT PROBABLY OTHER COUNTRIES THAT ARE MORE DEMOCRATIC WOULD HAVE HAD -- YOU KNOW, WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN ABLE TO DO.

THESE MEN WERE KNOWN AS LIQUIDATORS AND PEOPLE KNEW WHAT ULTIMATELY AWAITED THEM AND THEIR FATE.

THEY -- THEY SOUGHT THEM OUT.

THEY SOUGHT FITTEST, STRONGEST, UM, YOUNGEST MEN THEY COULD FIND TO GO DO THIS WORK THAT WOULD ULTIMATELY LEAD TO THE MAJORITY OF THEIR DEATHS.

WE HAVE A CLIP OF THAT.

UM, LET'S PLAY IT.

DON'T WORRY ABOUT THAT.

[ SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE ]

IT IS JUST HEARTBREAKING TO SEE THEIR LAUGHTER KNOWING THEY HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS IN STORE FOR THEM IN THE WEEKS AND MONTHS AND HOURS AFTER THAT, THEY WERE AWARDED WITH A FEW-HUNDRED RUBLES BUT OBVIOUSLY, THAT IS NOTHING IN TERMS OF THE IMPACT ON LIFE.

I KNOW, THE GENERAL -- I BELIEVE HE IS STILL ALIVE BUT HE WAS ALSO DEALING WITH RADIATION AND IMPACTS TO HIS OWN HEALTH.

THERE WAS A WOMAN AND HER HUSBAND.

HER HUSBAND WAS A FIREMAN.

SHE WAS FIVE MONTHS PREGNANT.

SHE ULTIMATELY LOST THAT CHILD AFTER THE CHILD WAS BORN PAUSE THE CHILD ABSORBED ALL THE RADIATION THAT SHE WAS EXPOSED TO BY JUST TOUCHING HER HUSBAND.

I MEAN, THERE ARE THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS OF STORIES LIKE THIS.

UM, DO HE WITH KNOW, DO YOU THINK WE WILL EVER KNOW THE ULTIMATE DEATH TOLL FROM THIS TRAGEDY?

YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE WILL.

I MEAN, THE ONE THING WE KNOW IS THAT IT'S -- IT'S THOUSANDS.

AND WE KNOW IT IS A LONG WAY OFF THE SOVIET TOTAL, WHICH WAS 31.

YOU KNOW, THEY BASICALLY STOPPED COUNTING AFTER THE FIRST WEEK OR SO.

BUT IT'S -- IT'S SO HARD TO TELL BECAUSE AS YOU SAID, THE RADIATION SPREAD A LONG WAY.

THE SOVIET UNION'S POLICY AT THE TIME WAS NOT TO PUT RADIATION ON PEOPLE'S MEDICAL NOTES.

YOU KNOW, THEY HAD A TERM -- I THINK YOU SAW IN THE CLIP WHERE THE MIN -- MINISTER OF HEALTH SAID, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE NO HEALTH EFFECTS FROM THE ACCIDENT IN CHERNOBYL AND BASICALLY THEY CONTINUED THIS TERM RADIOPHOBIA THE REASON YOU HAVE THEELZ ILLNESSES IS BECAUSE YOU ARE AFRAID OF RADIATION.

AND THAT KIND OF GASLIGHTING THE WHOLE NATION BASICALLY MEANT IN TERMS OF LIKE DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE HOW MANY PEOPLE GOT CANCER RELATED TO THE RALDIATION IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO SAY BUT ESTIMATES GO UP AS HIGH AS 200,000 PEOPLE THAT DIED.

ASK THAT BRINGS US TO TODAY.

THE RADIOPHOBIA.

SORT OF IN MY MIND AT LEAST, I COMPARE TO THE ACCUSATION OF RUS SOPHOBIA.

NOW IN LIGHT OF RUSSIA'S ILLEGAL INVASION OF UKRAINE.

THIS FILM WAS RELEASED IN BRITAIN BEFORE THE INVASION BUT HERE IS COMING AT THIS VERY INTERESTING TIME AS RUSSIA HAS BEEN THERE FOR OVER THREE MONTHS.

ARE THERE PARALLELS IN YOUR VIEW?

OBVIOUSLY, THE SOVIET UNION HAS RESOLVED.

RUSSIA IS A DIFFERENT STATE.

I WOULD ARGUE AN AUTHORITARIAN STATE TODAY AND MANY RUSSIANS -- MOST RUSSIANS ARE -- ARE HIDDEN FROM THE TRUTH, AS WELL.

UM, ANYBODY WHO QUESTIONS IT IS CALLED RUSSOPHOBE.

HAVE THINGS NOT REALLY CHANGED MUCH IN DECADES LATER?

YEAH, THE PARALLELS ARE KIND OF PAINFUL AND I THINK PUTIN'S MIND AND THE WAY THAT HE DWORCHS, THINGS HAVEN'T CHANGE.

YOU KNOW, HE IS ABSOLUTELY USING TECHNIQUES IN THE PLAYBOOK OF LEADERS IN THE KREMLIN FROM THE SOVIET DAYS.

YOU KNOW, DISINFORMATION.

IF ANYTHING, THEY ARE EVEN BIGGER.

BUT I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, HOPEFULLY, OUR FILM -- IT SHOWS HOW PEOPLE RESPONDED, PARTICULARLY IN UKRAINE, TO THOSE LIES AND THEY DID STAND UP FOR THEMSELVES, THEY DID PROTEST, AND THEY DID GAIN INDEPENDENCE AND IT IS EXACTLY THAT, THAT PUTIN IS TRYING TO REVERSE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT -- IT IS ANOTHER TRAGEDY THAT UKRAINE SUFFERING BECAUSE OF KREMLIN ' LIES.

BUT THE FILM SHOWS THEIR RESILIENCE AND BRAVERY AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE SEEING AGAIN TODAY.

IT IS A BRILLIANT FILM AND AGAIN, I CAN'T STOP THINKING ABOUT THE HAUNTING IMAGES OF THOSE CHILDREN AND YOUNG FAMILIES WALKING THE STREETS NOT KNOWING WHAT HAD JUST TRANSPIRED AROUND THEM.

JAMES JONES, YOU CAPTURED IT SO WELL.

THANK YOU.

WE APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

THANKS.

> AND NEXT, TO THE UNITED STATES WHERE THE SUPREME COURT WILL SOON MAKE A FINAL RULING ON ROE VERSUS WADE.

THE JANES IS A NEW HBO DOCUMENTARY TAKING US WHACK TO THE LATE '60s A EARLY E '70s WHEN APPORTION WAS ILLEGAL AND THE JANE UNDER GROUND PROVIDED A SAFE PLACE FOR PREGNANT WOMEN TO SEEK HELP.

HEATHER BOOTH FOUNDED IT IN 1969 WHEN HELPING A FRIEND FIND AN ABORTION DOCTOR.

A MEMBER ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT ABORTION WHEN THE CLINIC WAS RAIDED IN 1972.

THE CHARGES WERE DROPPED WHEN THE COURT DECIDED ON ROE v.

WADE.

THEY JOIN TO DISCUSS JANE AND LIFE WITHOUT ROE VERSUS WADE.

THANKS.

WELCOME TO BOTH OUR GUESTS.

SO, HEATHER BOOTH, WHO WAS JANE?

WHAT WAS JANE?

WHAT KIND OF SERVICES DID YOU PROVIDE?

JANE BECAME AN UNDERGROUND SERVICE TO PROVIDE CARING SUPPORT FOR WOMEN WHO WANTED TO END A PREGNANCY BEFORE ROE.

HAD WHEN THREE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION WAS A CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT A FELONY BUT THE WOMEN WHO WERE INVOLVED IN IT, WE CARED ABOUT WOMEN, WE CARED ABOUT OUR COMMUNITY, AND TREATING OTHERS AS WE WANT TREATED.

I HAVE NEVER FACED THE SITUATION MYSELF.

PEOPLE WERE IN SUCH NEED.

SOME WERE SUICIDAL.

SOME TOOK LYE OR DID DAMAGE TO THEMSELVES.

SOME ENDED UP ON THESE SEPTIC ABORTION WARDS AND HOSPITALS BECAUSE OF THE INJURY THAT THEY FACED.

SO, WE WERE A RESPONSE TO THAT PROBLEM.

I ALSO WAN TO ADD IN THIS ERA HERE, I MEAN, THE BIRTH-CONTROL PILL WAS NOT AVAILABLE UNTIL, WHAT, 1972?

YOU COULDN'T SUE FOR SEXUAL HARASSMENT UNTIL '77.

YOU COULD BE FIRED FOR BEING PREGNANT UNTIL 1978.

I MEAN, SPOUSAL RAPE WASN'T EVEN A CRIMINAL ACT AND ALL 50 STATES UNTIL I WANT TO SAY 1993.

SO WHAT WERE REASON, JEAN, THAT WOMEN WERE COMING TO YOU?

WHY?

WHAT WERE THEIR OPTIONS BEFORE THEY CALLED THAT NUMBER?

THEY -- THEY HAD -- THEY HAD VERY FEW OPTIONS.

UM, MIDDLE-CLASS WOMEN WHO HAD SYMPATHETIC DOCTORS AND MEDICAL REASONS COULD GO BEFORE A HOSPITAL BOARD ESSENTIALLY.

AND BEG FOR AN ABORTION.

AND OCCASIONALLY, THAT WOULD BE GRANTED.

AND THEY COULD HAVE A LEGAL ABORTION.

UM, BUT BY AND LARGE, THERE WERE -- THERE WERE NO OPTIONS THAT WERE -- WERE NOT CLANDESTINE REALLY.

UM, WHEN I WAS LOOKING FOR BIRTH CONTROL, SOMEBODY SLIPPED ME A LITTLE PIECE OF PAPER WITH THE NAME OF -- AND PHONE NUMBER OF A DOCTOR WHO WAS WILLING TO GIVE BIRTH CONTROL TO SINGLE WOMEN.

IT WAS -- IT WAS -- EVEN THAT WAS CLANDESTINE.

THERE WERE NO OPTIONS AND THAT WAS THE PROBLEM.

AND I CAN'T EMPHASIZE ENOUGH HOW -- HOW -- WHAT A TREMENDOUS THING IT WAS FOR THESE WOMEN, THE WOMEN WHO CAME THROUGH ZWRAN, TO TRUST US.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW US.

THEY HAD NO WAY TO KNOW US.

SOME HAD HEARD FROM US FROM OTHER WOMEN WHO HAD BEEN THROUGH THE SERVICE BUT THEY WERE TAKING A TERRIBLE RISK.

THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHEN THEY WERE GOING TO GET THESE MAFIA-ASSOCIATED ABORTIONISTS.

UM, SOMEBODY WHO DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING.

AND WE TRUSTED THEM BACK.

TO BE IN THE POSITION OF HAVING THREE OR FOUR CHILDREN AND NO MONEY TO HAVE ANOTHER OR IN AN ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIP WHERE YOU WOULD BE TIED TO SOMEONE FOREVER IF YOU HAD A BABY, WAS TERRIFYING.

I WANT TO SET UP A CLIP IF I CAN TO TRY TO GIVE PEOPLE AND OUR AUDIENCE IN 2022, SOME SEMBLANCE OF AN IDEA OF WHAT THAT ERA WAS LIKE.

WE WERE VERY AWARE OF THE FACT THAT, UM, WOMEN WERE SUFFERING IN A VARIETY OF WAYS BECAUSE OF ABORTION BEING AGAINST THE LAW.

WOMEN DID AWFUL THINGS OUT OF FEAR AND DESPERATION.

WE KNEW THAT SOME WOULD BE INJURED, SOME WOULD DIE.

MANY PEOPLE AROUND THEM, INCLUDING CHILDREN THEY ALREADY HAD WOULD SUFFER.

SO, WE THOUGHT WE CAN BE OF USE.

YOU NEED AN ABORTION, WE WILL HELP YOU.

CALL THIS NUMBER AND ASK FOR JANE.

JANE, TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT KIND OF THE PRACTICAL NATURE OF WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THAT PHONE CALL?

THE ANSWERING MACHINE WOULD SAY 'THIS IS JANE OF I AM'S LIBERATION.

PLEASE LEAVE YOUR NAME, YOUR PHONE NUMBER, AND THE DATE OF YOUR LAST PERIOD.'

AND THEN, THEY WOULD BE CALLED BACK AND MORE INFORMATION WOULD BE ELICITED BY THE -- BY ONE OF THE WOMEN CALLED THE CALL-BACK CHAIN.

AND THEN, WITH UNS WE HAD ALL THAT INFORMATION, WE WOULD PATS THEM AROUND AND PEOPLE WOULD TAKE -- TAKE THE CARDS OF WOMEN WHO LIVED NEARBY SO THAT IT WOULD BE EASIER FOR THEM TO REACH YOU.

UM, YOU COULD CALL THEM AND INVITE THEM INTO YOUR HOME AND YOU WOULD EXPLAIN WHAT THE PROCEDURE WAS.

YOU WOULD ELICIT ANY OTHER INFORMATION.

WE ALSO DISTRIBUTED LITERATURE.

WE DISTRIBUTED THE BIRTH CONTROL HANDBOOK, HOPEFULLY SO THEY WOULDN'T HAVE TO COME AGAIN.

AND ONCE THEY HAD BEEN COUNSELED, THEY WENT TO THAT ADDRESS.

THEY WENT TO THE ADDRESS WHERE WE WOULD BUY APARTMENTS WHERE THE WOMEN WOULD WAIT.

IT WAS OFTEN A ROWDY ENVIRONMENT WITH LITTLE KIDS RUNNING AROUND AND WE WOULD HAVE SNACKS BECAUSE THAT'S -- WE WERE WOMEN AND WE HAD TO FEED PEOPLE.

UM, AND THEN, FROM THERE, THEY WOULD BE DRIVEN TO WHAT WE CALL THE POLICE.

THOSE WERE OFTEN BARRED APARTMENTS.

THOUGH EVENTUALLY, WE DID RENT A PLACE THAT WE COULD KEEP SET UP.

OTHERWISE, WE WOULD HAVE TO GO IN AND WE WOULD HAVE TO SET UP THE WHOLE PLACE AND PUT NEW SHEETS ON THE BED AND STERILIZE THE INSTRUMENTS AND ALL -- ALL KINDS OF THINGS BUT WE COULD KEEP THAT APARTMENT READY AND THAT WAS WHERE THE ABORTION WAS PERFORMED.

WE TRIED TO MAKE THE ATMOSPHERE UNMEDICAL BECAUSE MEDICINE THEN WAS SO PATERNALISTIC.

WE HAD BRIGHT SHEETS AND WE ALWAYS HAD AN EXTRA WOMAN IN THE ROOM WHO COULD HOLD A HAND.

WHO COULD TALK PEOPLE THROUGH IT.

SO, WHILE THE ABORTIONIST WAS BUSY DOING THE PROCEDURE, SOMEONE COULD EXPLAIN WHAT WAS GOING ON.

ASSURE THEM THAT DISCOMFORT WOULD LAST ONLY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME.

LET THEM KNOW WHAT TO EXPECT.

AND UM, AND JUST BE THERE TO HAVE YOUR HAND SQUEEZED, SOMETIMES VERY HARD.

AND THAT WAS -- THAT WAS THE PROCEDURE.

THEN, THEY WERE DRIVEN BACK TO THE FRONT AND THEY WERE -- THEY WENT HOME WITH THEIR FAMILY.

HOW WAS THIS ORGANIZATION ABLE TO GET AWAY, SO TO SPEAK, WITH SOMETHING THAT WAS UNDERGROUND?

I MEAN, AN UNDERGROUND ORGANIZATION STILL ABLE TO PERFORM SOME-11,000 ABORTIONS IS PRETTY STUNNING.

I THINK THERE ARE AT LEAST TWO REASONS THAT THAT HAPPENED.

ONE IS IT WAS UNDERGROUND.

WE WEREN'T TALKING ABOUT IT.

SO WE JUST CONTINUED WITH THE WORK.

THE OTHER IS THAT WE ALWAYS THOUGHT THE POLICE KNEW ABOUT IT.

WHEN I WAS COUNSELING EARLY ON, A WOMAN MARRY TODAY A POLICEMAN CAME IN WITH HER DAUGHTER WHO WAS NEEDING AN ABORTION.

AND WERE SO GRATEFUL TO GET THE SUPPORT AND THOUGH I DIDN'T ASK, I HAD EVERY REASON, I HAD EVERY REASON TO BELIEVE IT WAS HER -- THAT IT WAS THE POLICEMAN WHO DIRECTED HIS WIFE ABOUT WHERE TO GO.

SO, WE THINK THAT IT ACTUALLY WAS A SERVICE THAT WAS USEFUL IN THE SOCIETY.

AND BECAUSE IT HADN'T BEEN POLITICIZED AND MADE A PARTISAN ISSUE AND HADN'T BEEN FUNDED FOR THE ATTACK ON IT.

WHO IS DR. MIKE?

UM, AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT WERE TRAINING TO DO THESE PROCEDURES?

SO WE WERE ALWAYS LOOKING FOR OTHER -- OTHER PEOPLE.

OTHER DOCTORS.

THAT'S THE WAY WE THOUGHT WHO COULD PERFORM THE PROCEDURES AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE THAT HE FOUND -- AND EACH TIME WE FOUND SOMEONE, WE TALKED TO THE WOMAN AFTERWARDS.

WE ASSESSED WHETHER THEY WERE GOOD.

SOMETIMES, DOCTORS WOULD HIT ON THE WOMEN.

WE CAME ACROSS MIKE AS ONE OF THE PEOPLE AND THEN WE WERE VERY HAPPY WITH HIM.

HE DID A GOOD JOB.

THE WOMEN HAD A GOOD EXPERIENCE.

AND HE WAS AN ENGAGING, VALUABLE PERSON.

HE WOULD TALK TO THE WOMEN AND HE WOULD REASSURE THEM WHICH WAS, AS I SAID EARLIER, NOT COMMON.

SO, WE WERE VERY COMFORTABLE WORKING WITH HIM, AND EVENTUALLY HE BECAME, UM, VERY GOOD FRIENDS WITH SOME OF THE WOMEN IN THE SERVICE.

AND AT SOME POINT, HE WAS INTERESTED IN GETTING OUT OF THE BUSINESS.

HE WASN'T -- HE DIDN'T WANT TO DO IT ANYMORE.

AND WE HAD DISCOVERED THAT HE WASN'T A DOCTOR.

HE HAD JUST LEARNED HOW TO DO THIS.

AND ONE OF THE WOMEN IN THE SERVICE WHO HAD BECOME CLOSE TO MIKE SAID IF HE CAN DO IT, I CAN DO IT AND PERSUADED HIM TO TEACH HER.

AND, YOU KNOW, LEARNING A PROCEDURE LIKE THIS, IT IS A RELATIVELY SIMPLE PROCEDURE.

SO, FIRST, WITH UNWOMAN LEARNED AND THEN SHE TAUGHT ANOTHER.

AND THEN, WOMEN, FOR EXAMPLE, I HAD GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE IT EXISTED.

SO FIRST, I LEARNED -- I WATCHED A WOMAN PUT A SHOT INTO THE CERVIX TO RELAX IT AND THEN SHE SHOWED ME HOW TO DO IT AND THEN I DID IT AND I LEARNED HOW TO PUT A SPECULUM IN A WAY THAT WAS COMFORTABLE FOR A WOMAN.

NOT SOMETHING I HAD EVER DONE BUT YOU WATCH AND LEARN AND THEN YOU TRY AND AND YOU DO IT.

SO THAT HE IS HOW IT -- IT JUST EVOLVED.

AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS THAT BECAUSE WE WERE DOING IT OURSELVES, WE THEN HAD CONTROL.

WE COULD SET THE PRICE.

WE COULD SET HOW MANY WE COULD DO WHICH GOT TO BE A LOT.

I MEAN, REALLY, WE WERE DOING WE AVERAGED ABOUT 40 TO $50 PER PERSON, WHICH WAS ENOUGH.

AND UM, AND THAT HE IS WHAT -- AND THAT -- ONCE WE HAD THAT CONTROL, UM, IT MEANT THAT WE COULD LET MAKE ABORTION ACCESSIBLE TO ALL THOSE PEOPLE.

I WANT TO SET UP A CLIP HERE OF WHAT HAPPENED WHEN NEW YORK DECIDED THAT THESE PROCEDURES COULD HAPPEN IN THAT STATE.

SO LET'S TAKE A LOOK.

WHEN NEW YORK LEGALIZED ABORTION IN 1970, THAT MEANT THAT ALL THOSE WHITE-COLLARED STUDENTS WHO COULD SEE THEMSELVES GETTING ON A PLANE AND FLYING TO NEW YORK AND GETTING AN ABORTION AND FLYING BACK DID THAT.

THAT IS WHAT REALLY CHANGED THE DEMOGRAPHICS.

IF YOU HAVE OTHER KID, IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE MONEY, IT WAS HARD TO DO.

A DECENT, ONE-BEDROOM APARTMENT IN CHICAGO WAS GOING FOR ABOUT $150 A MONTH.

LEGAL ABORTIONS COST BETWEEN 500 AND $600.

WOMEN OF COLOR WERE KIND JUST ON THE OUTS BECAUSE THAW COULDN'T AFFORD IT AND TO IT ME THAT WAS JUST OUTRAGEOUS.

TELL ME HOW THINGS CHANGED AFTER NEW YORK LEGALIZED ABORTION.

WHAT -- WHAT WAS REVEALED?

AFTER NEW YORK, WOMEN WERE ANGRY.

THEY WEREN'T APOLOGETIC ANYMORE.

THEY SAID IF -- IF A WOMAN IN NEW YORK CAN DO IT, WHY CAN'T I?

AND THEY WERE ANGRY.

AND THEY STOPPED JUSTIFYING THEMSELVES WHICH I THOUGHT WAS WONDERFUL.

THEY REALIZED THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE THIS RIGHT.

IF THE LAW IS OVERTURNED -- IF ROE IS OVERTURNED, WHAT IT WILL MEAN IS THAT PEOPLE WITH FINANCIAL MEANS, WITH FAMILY SUPPORTS, WITH COMMUNITIES OF SUPPORT, WITH EDUCATION ABOUT THE POSSIBILITIES OF WHAT IS AVAILABLE TO THEM, IT'S QUITE LIKELY THEY WILL FIND A WAY TO END AN UNWANTED PREGNANCY.

BUT FOR THE WOMEN WHO ARE POOR, WHO ARE MORE ISOLATED, WHO ARE LESS CONNECTED TO THE RESOURCES THAT WOULD BE NEEDED -- FINANCIAL AND OTHERWISE -- SO, POOR WOMEN, WOMEN OF COLOR, WOMEN IN AREAS AWAY FROM CITY CENTERS.

THEY WILL BE THE ONES INTO FORCED PREGNANCIES, INTO HARDER LIVES.

AND THEIR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THEIR FAMILIES ARE LIKELY TO BE DIMINISHED.

HEATHER, I WANT TO ASK YOU, HERE WE ARE TODAY -- DECADES LATER -- AFTER THE WORK THAT YOU STARTED AND THERE IS A FAIRLY DECENT CHANCE THAT ROE v. WADE IS EITHER SIGNIFICANTLY WEAKENED IF NOT OVERTURNED OUTRIGHT.

AND I WONDER WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR MIND.

ARE THERE GOING TO BE OTHER JANE-LIKE OPERATIONS IF THAT HAPPENS?

THERE ALREADY ARE OPERATIONS LIKE THIS.

MANY THINGS HAVE CHANGED SINCE THOSE EARLY DAYS.

AND JUST AS THERE ARE 26 STATES THAT ARE READY TO PUSH BACK AGAINST REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM IF ROE IS OVERTURNED IN WHOLE OR IN PART.

THERE ARE ALSO STATES THAT WOULD BECOME SANCTUARY STATES -- NEW YORK, CALIFORNIA, AND OTHERS.

AND THERE ARE PEOPLE SETTING ABOVE GROUND, AS WELL AS UNDERGROUND TRANSPORTATION-MEDICAL CARE.

A LOT OF THE CARE IS ALSO NOW DONE BY MEDICATION.

PROBABLY, OVER HALF THE ABORTIONS PROVIDED NOW ARE MEDICALLY PROVIDING.

AND THE BIGGEST THING THAT'S CHANGED, THOUGH, IS THAT WE HAVE ALL CHANGED.

RIGHT NOW, OVER 80% OF THIS COUNTRY BELIEVES THAT A POLITICIAN SHOULD NOT COME BETWEEN A WOMAN AND HER PHYSICIAN ON MAKING THIS MOST INTIMATE DECISION OF OUR LIVES.

THIS OVERWHELMINGLY HAS POPULAR SUPPORT.

LARGE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY REALLY DOESN'T THINK THAT ROE SHOULD BE OVERTURNED AND PEOPLE REALIZED THAT THIS IS A STORY OF WHAT CAN HAPPEN TO THEIR SISTER, THEIR COUSIN, THEIR FRIEND CAN HAPPEN TO THEM.

SO THERE WILL BE PROTEST.

THERE WILL BE ORGANIZATION.

THERE WILL BE NEW SERVICES PROVIDED AND WE ALSO NEED TO COME TOGETHER AND DRIVE THIS ISSUE INTO THE ELECTIONS TO SAY THAT THE POLITICIANS AND THE COURTS NEED TO REPRESENT THE POPULAR WILL AND BUILD A MORE CARING SOCIETY FOR THE FUTURE.

IT IS AVAILABLE NOW ON HPO HBO AND MBO MAX.

THANK YOU, BOTH HEATHER BOOTH AND JEAN.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING US.

WOW, A TRULY REMARKABLE STORY.

> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, HONORING A BELOVED LEGEND OF FILM, TV, AND THE STAGE.

LAST SUNDAY, 96-YEAR-OLD ANGELA LANDSBURY LANDED HER SIXTH TONY AWARD.

A SPECIAL ACCOLADE FOR A LIFETIME ACHIEVEMENT SO WE DECIDED TO DIG INTO OUR ARCHIVES AND SHOW YOU THE LAST TIME SHE WAS A GUEST ON THIS PROGRAM.

IN 2014, LANSBURY SPOKE ABOUT BROADWAY TO LONDON.

THEIR CONVERSATION ALSO COVERED LOVE, GRIEVE, AND, OF COURSE, 'MURDER SHE WROTE.'

TAKE A LOOK.

ANGELA LANSBURY, WELCOME TO OUR PROGRAM.

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU.

IT IS A GREAT PLEASURE.

YOU HAVE SO MUCH STAMINA.

WHERE DOES IT COME FROM?

THAT IS THE $24,000 QUESTION, I DON'T KNOW.

WHEN YOU SEE AMAZING REVIEW.

I MEAN, IT IS INCREDIBLE.

I SAW YOU ON THAT STAGE.

YOU STOLE THE ENTIRE SHOW.

KOURD REVIVAL STAYS YOUNG AT HEART.

MAKING IT LOOK EFFORTLESS AT 88.

LANSBURY MAKES A SPIRITED RETURN TO HER [ INAUDIBLE ].

NO, IT IS MARVELOUS TO GET THAT KIND OF RECOGNITION IN BRITAIN EVEN AFTER ALL THESE -- ALL THESE YEARS, YOU KNOW?

AND WHAT DID YOU LIKE ABOUT THIS PLAY 'BLOOD SPIRIT?'

I LOVE THE HUMOR, I LOVE THE LANGUAGE, I LOVE THE APPEARANCE OF THIS WOMAN.

I LOVE ALL OF HER NONSENSE AND CARRY ON.

I THINK IT IS SUCH FUN.

YOU HAVE PLAYED AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF ROLES.

YOU HAVE HAD MANY AWARDS, MANY NOMINATIONS, PLUS WE HAVE AN AMAZING CLIP FROM THE MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE WHERE YOU PLAYED A BADDY TO PERFECT.

WE ARE JUST GOING TO PLAY THAT.

I WANT THE NOMINEE TO BE DEAD ABOUT 2 MINUTES AFTER HE BEGINS HIS ACCEPTANCE SPEECH, DEPENDING ON HIS READING TIME UNDER PRESSURE.

HOW DID YOU BECOME, FROM A YOUNG GIRL TO ANGELA LANSBURY THE FILM STAR?

WELL, BECAUSE AS WE SAY IN DRN -- IN THE BUSINESS, THE MOVIE, THE BREAK.

YOU KNOW, WHILE I WAS WORKING IN A DEPARTMENT STORE, ACTUALLY, GETTING $18 A WEEK.

YOU KNOW?

AND -- AND KIND OF MAKING CHANGE AS A CASHIER.

AND ALL KINDS OF LITTLE OLD JOBS OF THAT SORT.

AND I HAD BEEN A STUDENT IN BRITAIN BEFORE I EVER WEPT TO AMERICA, AND SO, I WAS PREPARED AND I WAS READY TO BE AN ACTRESS AND I WANTED TO GET A PART IN A PLAY OR MOVIE OR ANYTHING.

JUST TO -- TO EXERCISE MY TALENT.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE PLAYING ALONGSIDE ALL THESE MAJOR BEAUTIES BUT NEVER BEING THE HEROINE?

OR NEVER BEING THAT ERIC?

CHARACTER?

OH, WELL IT TOOK ITS TOLL ON ME FINALLY.

AND I FINALLY DECIDED TO ASK FOR MY RELEASE FROM MGM, WHICH I GOT AND WAS VERY HAPPY TO LEAVE.

AND THEY JUST DIDN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH ME.

THEY DIDN'T REALLY HAVE THE ROLES FOR ME WHICH I COULD PLAY STRONG WOMEN.

HOW DID YOU GO THEN FROM THAT FRUSTRATION TO, YOU KNOW, 'MURDER SHE WROTE' AND ALL THE OTHER FILMS AND PLAYS THAT HAVE MADE YOU TO ESTABLISHED?

WELL, I TELL YOU YOU CAN COMPARTMENTALIZE MY CAREER INTO THREE PARTS.

MGM, THEATER, MUSICAL THEATER.

HUGE.

I HAD A HUGE CAREER IN MUSICAL THEATER SO I DECIDED WITH MY HUSBAND THAT THIS WAS THE TIME, IF I WAS EVER GOING TO DO TELEVISION, I MUST DO IT NOW SO I DID IT IN 1984.

THAT WAS THE FAMOUS 'MURDER SHE WROTE.'

JESSICA FLETCHER.

WHICH TODAY.

IS STILL WATCHED WORLDWIDE AND I COULD TELL YOU THAT AT LEAST TWO-THIRDS OF THE AUDIENCE DURING THE PREVIOUS OF THIS SHOW WERE PEOPLE WHO WATCHED 'MURDER SHE WROTE.'

HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT END TO THE ROLE OF JESSICA FLETCHER, WITH WHICH YOU HAD BECOME SO ASSOCIATED?

SOME PEOPLE EVEN THINK YOU ARE JESSICA FLETCHER.

RIGHT.

IT WASN'T DIFFICULT FOR ME AT ALL.

I WAS UP TO HERE WITH IT.

NOT UP TO THERE WITH JESSICA.

I WAS UP TO THERE WITH THE CONTINUOUS REGIMEN THAT WAS INVOLVED.

THE HOURS WERE DREADFUL.

YOU KNOW, AND YOU HAVE NO LIFE AT ALL.

THIS IS 12 YEARS.

FOR 12 YEARS.

YES.

SO, THE ONLY LIFE I HAD WAS WITH MY HUSBAND, WHICH WAS WONDERFUL.

WE DID IT TOGETHER.

YOU MENTIONED YOUR HUSBAND.

AND OBVIOUSLY, I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT IT BECAUSE IT WAS CLEARLY THE MOST AMAZING RELATIONSHIP FROM EVERYTHING I READ.

53 YEARS YOU WERE TOGETHER.

UH-HUH.

UH-HUH.

AND HE DIED IN 2003.

WHAT WAS THE SECRET, APART PRESIDENT FROM THIS PARTNERSHIP WHICH MUST HAVE BEEN FUNDAMENTAL TO YOUR LONGEVITY TOGETHER?

I ALWAYS SAID THAT IT WAS MAINLY OUR MUTUAL INTEREST IN WHAT WE WERE DOING, TOGETHER.

HE HAD A SUCCESSFUL BUSINESS LIFE.

THERE WAS NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.

HE WAS A HUGE AGENT AT WILLIAM MORRIS AND ALSO HAD A PRODUCTION AT MGM.

SO HE HAD -- HE HAD HAD A VERY FULFILLING LIFE AND WAS VERY HIGHLY THOUGHT OF IN THE BUSINESS.

THE FACT THAT HE WAS PREPARED TO GIVE IT UP FOR THE PURPOSE OF HELPING ME TO HAVE THIS CAREER IN TELEVISION, UM, WAS A DECISION THAT -- IT -- IT WAS A VERY CAREFULLY-ARRIVED-AT DECISION.

WE FELT IF WE COULD DO ALL THIS TOGETHER, IT WOULD MAKE ALL THIS GETTING UP EARLY, YOU KNOW, MAKING OUR WHOLE LIFE THIS PROJECT WORTH WHILE.

AND, YOU KNOW, IT IS A FUNNY THING.

YOU DON'T MAKE A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY IN THEATER.

AND MOST ACTORS WILL GIVE THEIR I.T.s TO GET A GOOD TELEVISION SERIES.

SO HE NEVER FELT THAT HE WAS BEING SHAFTED BY BEING THE HUSBAND OF A, YOU KNOW, OF A STAR.

NO.

AND YOU -- YOU -- YOU OBVIOUSLY, FOR UNDERSTANDABLE REASON, YOU SANCTIONS INTO A DEEP FUNK/DEPRESSION AFTER HE DIED.

UH-HUH.

YOU SAID I NEARLY WENT OFF THE RAILS.

TELL ME WHAT WAS THAT LIKE?

AND HOW DID YOU GET OUT OF THAT?

WHAT BROUGHT YOU OUT OF THAT?

IT'S HARD TO SAY BUT I KNEW -- I JUST KNEW I HAD TO WAIT.

AND -- AND -- AND THE MOMENT WOULD ARRIVE WHEN I WOULD BE ABLE TO COME UP TO THE SURFACE AGAIN AND LOOK AROUND AND SEE HOW I WAS GOING TO MEND THIS AWFUL KIND OF RIFT IN TIME I FELT.

SO I DIDN'T MAKE ANY MOVES MYSELF AND --

I'M SORRY.

I THOUGHT WHAT WOULD HE WANT ME TO DO?

AND I KNEW THAT HE WOULD HAVE WANTED ME TO CONTINUE.

I JUST KNEW THAT.

THERE WAS NEVER ANY QUESTION IN MY MIND BUT I HAD TO WAIT BEFORE I WAS ABLE TO DO IT.

SO, IT CAME AS A BOAT OUT OF THE BLUE, ACTUALLY.

MY DARLING FRIEND --

EMMA THOMPSON?

EMMA.

SUDDENLY, OUT OF THE BLUE, AND I ACTUALLY DIDN'T KNOW HER AT THAT POINT BUT SHE BECAME A GOOD FRIEND.

AND SHE INVITED ME TO COME AND PLAY WITH HER IN NANNY McPHEE.

YOU ARE NOT WELL.

FIND A GOOD WIFE OR BETTER.

UNFORTUNATE FACE.

ALL THOSE BRISTLES.

SO, IT WAS VERY RARE AND RATHER DIFFICULT JOB FOR ME.

BUT I DID -- I DID IT AND IT WAS FINE.

AND I LOVED ALL THE MAKEUP AND NONSENSE THAT I WAS COVERED WITH AND EVERYTHING AND IT GOT ME OUT OF MYSELF AND I THOROUGHLY ENJOYED IT AND IT WAS WONDERFUL.

HERE YOU ARE, MANY YEARS LATER, HERE YOU ARE, STILL -- STILL DOING IT.

DO YOU EVER THINK OF RETIRING?

TRIELGFULLY, I DON'T.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOIN MEG.

IT IS BEAN SUCH FUN.

I LOVE TALKING TO YOU.

AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

REMEMBER, YOU CAN FOLLOW ME AND THE SHOW ON TWITTER.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR WACHING 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY' ON PBS.

JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.