June 24, 2026

>>> WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>>> I THINK THERE IS A FRAMEWORK AND AN OUTLINE.

>> TRUMP'S TOP DIPLOMAT PITCHES THE DEAL TO SKEPTICAL ALLIES, WE GET THE TAKE.

>>> A NEW PARTY IN ISRAEL SPLIT EVENLY BETWEEN ARAB AND JEWISH ISRAELIS.

THE COFOUNDERS JOIN ME TO DISCUSS THEIR DARING WARTIME GAMBIT.

>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> OVER 250 YEARS, IT IS THE TOUCHSTONE.

IT IS NOT THE DOCUMENT WE ARGUE OVER, LIKE THE CONSTITUTION.

IT IS THE DOCUMENT THAT TELLS US HOW WE SHOULD WANT TO LIVE TOGETHER.

>> NATIONAL TREASURE, THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE, CONTINUES TO SHAPE AMERICA.

WALTER ISAACSON DISCUSSES THIS WITH THE HISTORIAN , MICHAEL AUSLIN.

>>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT , JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS , CANDACE KING WEIR , THE SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM , THE STRAUS FAMILY FOUNDATION , THE PETER G. PETERSON & JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND , CHARLES ROSENBLUM , MONIQUE SCHOEN WARSHAW, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN .

COMMITTED TO BRINGING -- BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I LONDON.

SECRETARY OF STATE MARCO RUBIO IS ON A TOUR OF PERSIAN GULF ALLIES, TRYING TO SHARE UP THEIR --SHORE UP THEIR SUPPORT.

AS NEGOTIATIONS PLOW ON, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES ABOUT THE MOU BETWEEN THE NEGOTIATION LEAD AND PRESIDENT TRUMP.

IRAN SAYS THERE ARE NO PLANS FOR THE U.N.

NUCLEAR INSPECTIONS UNTIL THE FINAL NEGOTIATIONS TAKE PLACE.

DESPITE IRANIAN CLAIMS, TRUMP AND MARCO RUBIO SAY THERE IS NO WAY IRAN WILL HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ.

>> WHEN WE MEAN OPEN THE STRAIT, WE MEAN A FREE, INTERNATIONAL WATERWAY.

I KNOW OF NO COUNTRY ON THE PLANET THAT SUPPORTS TOLLING OR A FEE FOR THE USE OF THE STRAIT.

THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR.

>> THE PRESIDENT IS ANGRY AND SENATE REPUBLICANS WHO JUST HIM RESUMING THE WAR WITH IRAN, CALLING THE VOTE POORLY TIMED, MEANINGLESS, SO, WHERE WILL THIS ALL SETTLE?

LET'S BRING IN TWO REGIONAL EXPERTS, GEORGETOWN PROFESSOR MEHRAN KAMRAVA JOINS ME FROM QATAR, AND THE FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER, DANIEL SILVERBERG .

WELCOME BOTH OF YOU, MEHRAN KAMRAVA, IF I CAN START WITH YOU, YOU WERE RIGHT THERE IN QATAR.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE HAS NOT VISITED QATAR, BUT HE HAS GONE TO THE OTHER GULF STATES, CERTAINLY KUWAIT.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS IS GOING TO LAND?

HOW DO YOU THINK THE GULF STATES ARE GOING TO BE REACTING TO THIS MOU BETWEEN IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES?

>> THERE IS A COLLECTIVE SIGH OF RELIEF.

OF COURSE, NOT ALL THE PERSIAN GULF STATES SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE.

OMAN IS OPENLY DISCUSSING SOME APPARATUS FOR THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ WITH IRAN.

NONE OF THE OTHER STATES OF THE GULF COOPERATION COUNCIL ARE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

WHAT I THINK, COLLECTIVELY, THERE IS THE DESIRE TO SEE HOSTILITIES END AND , KIND OF THIS AGREEMENT FINALIZED BETWEEN IRAN AND THE UNITED STATES.

>> RIGHT .

WELL, DANIEL, LET ME ASK YOU.

DANIEL SILVERBERG, WHEN I SAID NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, IT WAS TO THE U.S.

HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER AT THE TIME.

SILVERBERG, RATHER, GOSH , I AM GETTING CONFUSED.

CAN YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK ?

IS THE UNITED STATES GOING TO STAY IN THOSE BASES, WHICH WERE ATTACKED BY IRAN ?

DOES IT MAKE SENSE FOR THE GCC TO HAVE THE UNITED STATES IN THOSE BASES THEY WERE NOT PROTECTED, OR WERE THEY PROTECTED DURING THIS WAR?

>> CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, THANK YOU FOR THE PROMOTION TO GET THE CONVERSATION STARTED.

LET ME ADDRESS TWO POINTS.

SECRETARY RUBIO, VERY MUCH HAS HIS WORK CUT OUT FOR HIM IN THE GULF.

I AGREE WITH MEHRAN KAMRAVA , THE GULF STATES WELCOME THE ABILITY.

THEY WELCOMED THE TEMPERATURE COMING DOWN.

THEY ARE TERRIFIED THOUGH ABOUT WHAT EXACTLY WAS AGREED TO, WHICH FILL IS NOT CLEAR .

IT HAS TO BE DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN WHAT THE PARTIES DISCUSSED IN THE MOU.

AS YOU RIGHTFULLY MENTIONED, IT IS NOT CLEAR WHAT IS THE AGREEMENT AROUND THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ AND THE ONGOING NUCLEAR NEGOTIATIONS, GIVEN THE PRECARIOUSNESS AROUND THE NEGOTIATIONS, GIVEN THE CLEAR CHALLENGES DEMONSTRATED SO FAR ABOUT ACTUALLY OPENING THE STRAIT.

ONLY ABOUT ONE THIRD OF THE PREWAR TRAFFIC IS FLOWING RIGHT NOW.

OUR GULF ALLIES ARE DEEPLY CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT THIS AGREEMENT AND THESE NEGOTIATIONS MEAN FOR THEM.

I DON'T EXPECT THE U.S.

TO BE QUESTIONING OUR MILITARY PRESENCE IN THE GULF.

I THINK THAT IS GOING TO BE AN AVENUE FOR REASSURANCE IN COMING DAYS.

>> I JUST ASK YOU, DO YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT THESE PUBLIC DISAGREEMENTS ABOUT THE VERY BASICS IN THE MOU, WE HAVE NOT GOTTEN TO THE FULL NEGOTIATIONS, YOU KNOW ?

DO YOU THINK IT CAN TORPEDO THIS PROCESS?

>> WELL, I , ABSOLUTELY.

THESE NEGOTIATIONS ARE IN A REMARKABLY PRECARIOUS PLACE.

NOTWITHSTANDING I THINK THE POSITIVE STATEMENTS THAT VICE PRESIDENT VANCE ISSUED, THERE ARE EXTRAORDINARILY COMPLICATED ISSUES, THAT TOOK THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION YEARS TO FIGURE OUT.

THIS IS NOT A 60-DAY WINDOW.

I THINK THE CONCERN OF THE GULF STATES IS THAT, THEY DID NOT WANT THIS WAR.

BUT THEY COULD BE LEFT HOLDING THE BAG, IF THE STRAIT REMAINS PRECARIOUSLY OPEN.

MEANING, SOME DAYS IRAN LETS TRAFFIC THROUGH, OTHER DAYS IT DOESN'T.

SOME DAYS THEY COULD SAY, ONLY COUNTRIES OF THIS ORIGIN GO THROUGH, NOT JUST HOLES.

IT COULD BE SOMETHING LIKE, HAVE YOU FILLED OUT THIS FORM?

UNTIL THERE IS CLARITY ON THOSE ISSUES, I DON'T THINK THE GULF STATES ARE GOING TO BE REASSURED.

>> OKAY, MEHRAN KAMRAVA, DO THESE OUTSTANDING ISSUES AND THE DIFFERENCES OVER THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ OR WHETHER THERE WILL OR WON'T BE ANY IMMEDIATE U.N.

NUCLEAR INSPECTORS, CAN IT TORPEDO THE DEAL BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES AND IRAN ?

THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS.

BUT I THINK WHAT WE ARE SEEING IS THE DETERMINED EFFORT ON BOTH SIDES TO COME TO SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT, NO MATTER HOW IMPERFECT.

AND I THINK BOTH THE IRANIANS AND THE AMERICANS ARE FULLY AWARE THAT THE WILDCARD HERE IS ISRAEL.

AND THE ISRAELIS CAN EASILY PLAY THE ROLE OF SPOILER AND TORPEDO ANY FINAL AGREEMENT.

SO, ALTHOUGH MUCH HARD WORK REMAINS, AS DANIEL JUST MENTIONED , I THINK THERE IS ALSO A DETERMINED EFFORT TO COME TO SOME SORT OF AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES.

>> YEAH, CLOSE CONVERSATIONS AND NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN ISRAEL AND THE STATES OF LEBANON CONTINUE.

OF COURSE, HEZBOLLAH, IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL OF THIS, COULD TRIGGER SOMETHING.

AND ISRAEL'S REACTION.

I WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH ABOUT THE IDEA OF MISSILES.

YOU ARE THERE , MEHRAN KAMRAVA, AND I AM GOING TO LISTEN TO WHAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID ABOUT THE ISSUE OF MISSILES.

UP UNTIL NOW, THERE HAVE NOT BEEN PARTS OF THIS MOU, THEY WERE NOT PART OF THE AGREEMENT, THEY WERE NOT PART OF THE JP COA , AND THEY STILL AREN'T.

THIS IS WHAT THIRTEEN.ORG SAID ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE .

>> LET SAUDI ARABIA HAVE MISSILES ?

IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY, IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY.

MISSILES ARE NOT THE PROBLEM , THEY HURT A LITTLE LOCATION, BUT THEY DO NOT BLOW UP THE PLANET.

>> RUBIO HAS SORT OF SUGGESTED IN THE END, MISSILES MAY BE ADDRESSED IN THE FINAL MONTHS DOWN THE ROAD , THAT SITUATION.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, DANIEL , DO YOU THINK THIS IS AN ISSUE OR IS TRUMP RIGHT?

OR J.D.

VANCE?

THEY SAID EVERY COUNTRY HAS THE RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE?

>> THERE WERE HEADS SPINNING , BOTH AMONG DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

LOOK, PEOPLE LIKE ME SPENT YEARS PUTTING IN PLACE A HIGHLY -RIGOROUS SANCTIONS REGIME.

WE WENT PRODUCT BY PRODUCT , TRYING TO GO AFTER EVERY AVENUE, BY WHICH THIS REGIME COULD FUND ITS NUCLEAR PROGRAM, MISSILE PROGRAM, AND ITS PROXY PROGRAM.

TO SUDDENLY HEAR THE PRESIDENT SAY, MISSILES ARE NOT AN ISSUE .

THAT WAS STARTLING.

AND I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I THINK A LOT OF REPUBLICANS WHO ARE NOT GOING TO PUBLICLY DEFY THE PRESIDENT ARE PRETTY CONCERNED ABOUT STATEMENTS LIKE THAT.

IN ONE LIGHT, THE WAR POWERS VOTE THAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT, I WOULD NOT READ THAT MUCH INTO IT.

JOINED OUR LONG-STANDING CRITICS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP , OR ARE THOSE WHO ARE RETIRING AND NEVER ALREADY MADE CLEAR THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO STAND WITH THE PRESIDENT.

HOWEVER, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF HAWKS ON CAPITOL HILL, BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, UNCOMFORTABLE, WITH THE JCPOA PRIMARILY BECAUSE IT DID NOT INCLUDE MISSILES.

THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE PRESIDENT'S STATEMENTS AND LOOKING AT THE BREADTH OF SANCTIONS RELIEF THAT THE PRESIDENT PROVIDED ON MONDAY, THROUGH RAISING SANCTIONS ON IRAN'S ABILITY TO SELL OIL, AND IN U.S.

DOLLARS , BY THE WAY.

A VERY SIGNIFICANT DEVELOPMENT.

THEY ARE LOOKING AT THAT AND SAYING, WHAT CAN WE DO TO POTENTIALLY REVERSE THIS?

>> THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE ROLE, OR RATHER THEIR POSITION.

THE HAWKS HAVE ALWAYS BELIEVED THAT THERE SO HAS PRIME MINISTER BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, EVEN AFTER THE OBAMA JCPOA, COMES THE CONGRESS, BASICALLY BLASTS THE JCPOA.

CONVINCES TRUMP TO PULL OUT OF THE JCPOA AND HERE WE ARE , ALL OVER AGAIN.

BUT, MEHRAN KAMRAVA, FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND VANTAGE POINT , DO YOU THINK, EVERYTHING DANIEL HAS TALKED ABOUT, THE REALITIES OF THE MOU , BROUGHT BACK ESSENTIALLY INTO THE OIL EXPORT BUSINESS, INTO THE FINANCIAL WORLD, HAVING ACCESS TO DOLLARS AND THIS AND THAT, IS THE GULF REGION READY TO REINTEGRATE IRAN INTO THE GLOBAL ECONOMY AND SECURITY PICTURE ?

DO YOU THINK THAT WILL BE BETTER FOR THEIR SECURITY ?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOOK, THIS WAR DEMONSTRATED THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC CAN WITHSTAND BEING LITERALLY BEATEN UP AND HAVING ITS LEADERSHIP DECAPITATED BY TWO NUCLEAR POWERS THE UNITED STATES AND ISRAEL.

AND STILL SURVIVE.

SO, THE STAKES HERE , IN THE GCC , AND MANY, EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES, ARE FULLY AWARE THAT THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC IS NOT COLLAPSING, IT IS NOT GOING ANYWHERE.

YOU MIGHT AS WELL DEAL WITH IT.

THE ISSUE OF MISSILES, FROM TEHRAN 'S PERSPECTIVE, MISSILE DEFENSE WAS THE ONLY THING THAT TEHRAN HAD.

AND GIVING AWAY, OR GIVING UP MISSILE DEFENSE OR THE MISSILE PROGRAM FOR THEM WOULD BE TANTAMOUNT TO CAPITULATION, WHICH THE GOVERNMENT WOULD NEVER DO.

SO, THERE IS THIS AWARENESS THAT YOU MIGHT AS WELL DEAL WITH THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

ENGAGE WITH THEM CONDITIONALLY, SO THAT YOUR REWARD -- YOU REWARD GOOD BEHAVIOR, AS OPPOSED TO TRYING TO DESTROYING WHICH THEY HAVE PROVEN THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO DO.

>> YEAH, OF COURSE, THAT HAS BEEN THE BACKBONE OF ALL WESTERN AND REGIONAL POLICY FOR THE LAST 46 YEARS OF, YOU KNOW, SINCE THE ISLAMIC REPUBLIC.

DO YOU --HOW DO YOU READ THE INITIATIVE?

DO THEY PLAN TO HOST SEPARATE RECONCILIATION TALKS BETWEEN IRAN AND THE PERSIAN GULF STATES ?

IS THIS SORT OF A DEMONSTRATION OF ACCEPTANCE OR HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WILL GO?

MISSILES AND DRONES REALLY WREAKED HAVOC ON THE AMERICAN BASES.

MEHRAN KAMRAVA, WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE SAUDI MOVE?

>> THE IRANIANS ARE CHANGING THEIR WORD, THEY HAVE A LOT OF DAMAGE CONTROL TO DO, WHATEVER DRAMATIC INROADS THEY HAD MADE, 2020, 2021, AND WHATEVER GOODWILL THEY HAD ACCUMULATED HAS DISSIPATED DURING THIS WAR.

THEY WOULD CERTAINLY WELCOME THAT AND I THINK SAUDI ARABIA IS ACTING LIKE QATAR HAS BEEN ACTING, AND OMAN, IN TERMS OF TRYING TO FOSTER GOOD NEIGHBOR RELATIONS.

AGAIN , THERE IS THIS AWARENESS THAT THEY ARE ALL CURSED OR BLESSED BY GEOGRAPHY TO BE NEIGHBORS AND NONE OF THEM IS GOING AWAY, SO THEY MIGHT AS WELL LEARN TO LIVE WITH ONE ANOTHER.

>> AND, DANIEL, HOW DO YOU SEE THAT THEN?

THE WHOLE IDEA THAT CLEARLY NOW THE GULF GATE --STATES, ALL OF THESE DECADES OF POLICY HAVE, IN ONE FELL SWOOP, FROM THEIR PERSPECTIVE, MAYBE EVEN THE AMERICAN PERSPECTIVE, HAS FAILED?

THAT IS WHAT THE ANALYSTS ARE BASICALLY SAYING.

MAYBE IT IS TIME TO TRY SOMETHING ELSE.

HOW WILL THE UNITED STATES COPE OR WILL IT LEAD A REINTEGRATION OF IRAN AS A WAY TO BUILD MORE SECURITY FROM --FOR IRAN?

>> CHRISTIANE, WE ARE YEARS AWAY FROM THE QUESTION OF REINTEGRATING AROUND INTO ANYTHING.

LOOK BACK AT 2016, WE HAD CLARITY IN WHAT THE WAY FORWARD WAS.

WE HAD THE JCPOA.

EVEN THEN, IRAN COULD NOT INTEGRATE ITSELF INTO THE GLOBAL ECONOMIC MARKET, MERELY BECAUSE OF ITS OWN PROBLEM.

A SPORADIC FINANCIAL SYSTEM, CORRUPTION, GOVERNMENT MISMANAGEMENT OF KEY PARTS OF THE ECONOMY, THERE ARE INTERNAL FACTORS THAT MAKE IT ALMOST IRRELEVANT TO BE TALKING ABOUT INTEGRATION JUST YET.

I MIGHT TAKE A MORE JAUNDICED VIEW OF HOW THE GOLF PARTNERS ARE DOING THE CURRENT SITUATION, I THINK THEY ARE FRENETIC, IN ONE LIGHT , I AGREE WITH THE PREMISE, THEY WANT TO MAKE PEACE WITH IRAN, THEY WANT STABILITY IN THE REGION.

SIMULTANEOUSLY, THEY ARE CONCERNED THAT WE ARE IN A PLACE WHERE THE UNITED STATES COULD ALLOW IRAN TO HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS , BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING, AT ITS DISPOSAL .

AND THE LATITUDE TO MOVE ITS OWN SHIPS THROUGH THE STRAIT OF HORMUZ, WHILE UAE, QATAR, AND SAUDI ARE UNABLE TO DO SO.

THAT WOULD BE REMARKABLY DAMAGING TO THEM.

WHAT I AM HEARING FROM SENIOR LEADERS IS, WE DID NOT WANT THIS WAR, BUT NOW THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS PUT US IN THIS POSITION, WE BETTER SOLVE IT.

HE BETTER FIND A WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT LEFT HOLDING THE BAG OF THIS AGREEMENT.

AND I HAVE TO THINK PRESIDENT EXCUSE ME, SECRETARY OF STATE RUBIO, THAT IS THE MESSAGE HE IS DELIVERING.

WE HAVE YOUR BACK, WE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU HERE.

IN MY VIEW, THERE IS NOBODY BETTER IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TO DELIVER THAT MESSAGE.

>> WHO IS GOING TO BE HOLDING THE BAG FOR THE $300 BILLION RECONSTRUCTION FUND THAT IS IN THE MOU ?

>> THAT IS TO BE DETERMINED.

THE MOU AGAIN WAS A BASIC 1.5- PAGE FRAMEWORK TO GET THE STRAIT OPEN.

NOT MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

OUR GOLF PARTNERS, THEY MAY BE WILLING TO FUND IT, THEY DO NOT WANT IRAN LOBBING MISSILES AT THEM, BUT TO PUT $300 BILLION IN IRAN'S HANDS, THEY NEED INSURANCE FROM THE UNITED STATES THAT IRAN IS NOT GOING TO BE USING THAT MONEY OR POWER TO WREAK HAVOC ON THE ECONOMY, TO LAUNCH MISSILES AND THREATEN CIVILIANS IN THEIR TERRITORY.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE CIVILIANS WITH MEHRAN KAMRAVA, MOU.

EVERYONE WOULD WISH THAT THE REGIME WOULD NOT CRACKDOWN, YOU KNOW, FULL-SCALE, SHOOTINGS AND KILLINGS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AS THEY DID IN JANUARY.

BUT THAT AND --IS NOT WRITTEN THERE , THE HARDLINERS IN IRAN HAVE BEEN IN POWER.

THEY MAY NOT HAVE BEEN DOING FACE-TO-FACE NEGOTIATIONS, BUT THE IRGC HAS BEEN VERY HEAVILY CONSOLIDATED IN THEIR POSITION, SO WHAT DO YOU THINK -- WHERE DO YOU THINK IT IS GOING TO LEAD, WHAT WILL IT MEAN FOR THE IRANIAN PEOPLE?

>> WHAT WE ARE WITNESSING AND WHAT WE ARE HEARING FROM POLITICAL LEADERS IN TEHRAN, THERE IS EMPTINESS -- EMPHASIS, RENEWED EMPHASIS , ON THE ECONOMY.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT , WE HAVE A NEW GENERATION OF POLITICAL LEADERS WHO ARE MUCH MORE SECURITY ORIENTED.

THEY ARE FAR LESS INTERESTED IN THE TRAPPINGS OF DEMOCRACY THAT PREVIOUS GENERATIONS AT LEAST PAID LIP SERVICE TO.

BUT THEY ARE KEENLY AWARE THAT THEY NEED TO DELIVER ON THE ECONOMY, OR THEY WILL BE IN SERIOUS TROUBLE.

SO, BUT WE ARE LIKELY TO SEE MOVING FORWARD IS A GENERATION OF SECURITY-ORIENTED, REPRESSIVE, AND INTOLERANT TECHNOCRATS AND PROFESSIONALS WHO ARE DETERMINED TO DELIVER ON SOME OF THE ECONOMIC PROMISES THAT THE MIDDLE-CLASS EXPECTED , TO DELIVER ON.

BUT, OF COURSE, IN THE PROCESS I THINK THE IRANIAN GOVERNMENT WILL DO AWAY WITH ANY SEMBLANCE OF POLITICAL OPENNESS OR POLITICAL PARTICIPATION AT SOME POINT, IN THE PAST THEY HAVE PAID LIP SERVICE TO.

>> THIS STORY IS STILL BEING WRITTEN, MEHRAN KAMRAVA AND DANIEL SILVERBERG, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING ME ON THIS.

>>> ISRAELI MINISTER THEY DO NOT NEED --BENJAMIN NETANYAHU REJECTS , AS THEY MEET FOR A FIFTH ROUND TO TALK, TO FINALLY END THE WAR.

LEBANON IS DEMANDING A FULL IDF WITHDRAWAL, BUT WITH ELECTIONS LATER THIS YEAR AND QUESTIONS ABOUT NETANYAHU 'S REELECTIONS PROSPECTS, THERE IS A NEW ROLE.

A PLACE FOR US ALL, IT IS THE BRAINCHILD OF ALON-LEE GREEN AND RULA DAOOD, WHO COFOUNDED GRASSROOTS GROUP THAT HAS SPENT YEARS WORKING TOWARDS PEACEFUL COEXISTENCE.

THEY ARE JOINING ME NOW FROM TEL AVIV.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, WE ALWAYS LIKE TO TALK TO PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT SIDES WHO HAVE A JOINT PROJECT OF COEXISTENCE.

SO, THIS IS A VERY, VERY HARD TIME TO BE A POLITICIAN, AND TO RUN FOR ELECTIONS IN ISRAEL.

WHAT DO YOU THINK, BOTH OF YOU, YOUR PARTY CAN BRING, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF --WHAT CAN THEY BRING TO THIS ELECTION?

CAN YOU REALLY UNSEAT THE PARTY OF BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AND HIS COALITION?

>> FIRST OF ALL, THANK YOU FOR HAVING US AGAIN.

THE PARTY IS SPLIT IN ISRAEL .

I THINK, WHAT WE SEE , WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE POLITICS INSIDE OF ISRAEL, AT A TIME WHERE IT NEEDS BRAVE PEOPLE AND BRAVE PARTIES, ESPECIALLY AFTER OCTOBER 7th, WE NEED A PARTY -- WE NEED A PARTY THAT UNDERSTANDS THE FUTURE OF THE PEOPLE CANNOT BE A FUTURE WITH NO WARS.

WE NEED A PARTY THAT DEMANDS AN END TO THE OCCUPATION, BUT ALSO THE QUALITY, FOR THE PEOPLE IN ISRAEL.

THIS IS OUR PARTY, AND A PLACE FOR US ALL RAISES THAT THE BOYS .

WE ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DEMONSTRATING.

GOING OUT IN THE STREETS , FOR VARIOUS STRUGGLES AND WE SEE THE HUNGER IN THE EYES OF PEOPLE.

AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS TIME TO CHALLENGE THE POLITICS.

>> GO AHEAD.

>> I DO BELIEVE THIS IS THE MOST STRATEGIC PLACE TO REMOVE THEY BELIEVE ONLY RESISTANCE CAN SOMEHOW HAVE THE NUMBERS TO REMOVE THEM.

THEY ARE WRONG.

OF COURSE, THE PARTY IN MINORITY , THEY CANNOT REMOVE NETANYAHU.

WE KNOW THAT THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT IS BY OUR PARTNERSHIP.

BY MOBILIZING ALL OF THE PALESTINIANS THAT HAVE THE INTERESTS AND A DIFFERENT KIND OF REALITY AFTER THREE YEARS IN OUR HISTORY, ALSO, THE ISRAELI PEOPLE PAID THE PRICE, IF THEY ARE JEWISH ISRAELIS , WE BELIEVE WE CAN FOCUS ON THE INTERESTS OF PALESTINIAN AND JEWISH ISRAELIS FROM A SHARED HOME, A PLACE FOR US ALL, A JOINT PARTY.

TOGETHER IS THE GRASSROOTS GROUP THAT YOU COFOUNDED.

AND YOU ARE SUSPENDING YOUR PARTICIPATION IN THAT FOR THE MOMENT WHILE YOU BECOME ACTIVE POLITICIANS, RUNNING.

YOU ARE NOW A POLITICAL GROUP, WHAT IS IT THAT YOU THINK YOU CAN DO TO COUNTER WHAT APPEARS TO BE THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS WHO BELIEVE THESE WARS FOR INSTANCE NEED TO CONTINUE ?

>> IF YOU ASK PEOPLE WHAT THEY WANT, THEY WANT PEACE.

NO MORE WARS.

IT IS BECOMING CLEAR FOR PEOPLE THIS IS A REALITY .

IT IS SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE ASKED OF THEM, WEEDING MEMBERS WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO PUT ON THE TABLE ANOTHER POLITICAL IDEOLOGY.

AND PEACE.

WHEN WE LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, THE PARTIES , BUT WE HAVE LEFT OF CENTER, WE DO NOT SEE ANY OF THEM SPEAKING ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE PEOPLE LIVING HERE.

EVERYBODY SPEAKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THEM DEALING WITH THE ISSUES OF OCCUPATION , WHAT COULD HAPPEN TO THE WEST BANK?

NOTHING WOULD REALLY CHANGE IN OUR POLITICS .

WE ARE HERE TO SPEAK AND TALK ABOUT THE FUTURE.

AND NOT JUST FIGHT IN THE STREETS, BUT ALSO IN THE KNESSET.

THIS IS FOR THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE PEOPLE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU SOME STATISTICS.

THE MAJORITY OF ISRAELIS AND TO AN EXTENT, PALESTINIANS, THOSE IN GAZA , ARE LOSING, CATEGORICALLY LOSING HOPE, IN THE TWO IVAN STATE SITUATION.

ACCORDING TO A RECENT PUPIL .

-- PUGH PAUL.

HOW ARE YOU GOING TO EMERGE FROM THAT KIND OF FEELING AND ISOLATION, OF THE PEACE CAMP?

>> WE BELIEVE STRONGLY THAT THE LEADERSHIP IS LACKING, IF YOU , IF YOU ARE AN ISRAELI VOTER AND YOU LISTEN TO YOUR LEADERS, WHAT YOU WERE HERE, THIS IS NOT THE TIME TO SPEAK ABOUT THESE.

THE OCCUPATION, OR WHAT TO DO WITH THE PALESTINIANS.

IF THE LEADERSHIP CANNOT BRING THESE IDEAS OR SOLUTIONS TO THE TABLE, THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES DO NOT HEAR IT.

AND THEY BECOME VERY USED TO THE IDEAS .

AND WE NEED TO WAKE UP, WE NEED TO SPEAK WITH EVERY POSSIBLE ISRAELI TO SAY THERE IS AN ISSUE.

MILLIONS OF PEOPLE ARE BEING RULED BY OUR ARMY, WITHOUT BEING CITIZENS OF ISRAEL.

THE ISSUE IS, THEY ARE ALSO AFRAID , KILLING ISRAELIS , SENDING OUR SOLDIERS TO LEBANON TO KILL 3000 LEBANESE.

36 SOLDIERS HAVE DIED IN THE LAST FEW MONTHS.

THESE ARE ISSUES.

THEY ARE POLITICAL ISSUES.

IF WE DO NOT SPEAK ABOUT THESE ISSUES, THEN THE PUBLIC WILL NEVER KNOW THAT IT IS IT AN ISSUE.

IT WILL BE LIKE THE WEATHER FOR THEM.

WE ARE HERE TO SAY THIS IS NOT THE WEATHER.

THE OCCUPATION -- FOR THAT, WE NEED A PARTY THAT SPEAKS ABOUT THESE AND OCCUPATION.

AND NOT AFRAID OF THE STRUGGLE, BECAUSE IT IS POSSIBLE TO FIGHT AGAINST OCCUPATION.

IT IS POSSIBLE TO FIGHT FOR PEACE.

>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT MORE DOMESTIC ISSUES.

THIS IS A BIG DOMESTIC ISSUE, PEACE.

INTERNAL ISRAELI POLITICS, CERTAINLY BEFORE OCTOBER 7th, YOU HAD , AND YOU, YOURSELVES, YOU ARE PART OF THE PROTEST MOVEMENT AGAINST NETANYAHU 'S ATTEMPT AT WHAT HE CALLED JUDICIAL REFORMS, BASICALLY IT WAS A TAKE BACK DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT.

WHERE DOES THAT STAND RIGHT NOW, ARE PROTESTERS IN THE STREETS?

IS THAT DOMESTIC ISSUE SOMETHING THAT IS IMPORTANT TO PEOPLE?

>> EACH AND EVERY ONE, THERE IS A DEMONSTRATION.

RIGHT NOW , JEWISH OR PALESTINIAN CITIZENS OF ISRAEL SPEAKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT , ANOTHER ELECTION, MAYBE THE PRIME MINISTER.

THE POLICY TOWARDS US IS A VERY DIFFERENT POLICY.

WHAT WE DEMAND, WHAT WE SEE, IT IS NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, TO PUT NETANYAHU OUT .

BUT TO BRING IN DIFFERENT POLITICS.

POLITICS THAT STAND AGAINST THE RIGHT WING THAT WE HAVE, IN THIS GOVERNMENT.

AND THE QUESTION, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE LOOK AT IT RIGHT NOW, OF DIFFERENT PARTIES.

AND WHAT KIND OF PARTIES ALSO DO YOU SEE, AFTER THIS NEXT ELECTION?

I THINK, FOR ALL OF US, MOST OF US, IS TO ASK FOR UNDERSTANDING THAT ARAB CITIZENS , IN ORDER TO HAVE REGIME CHANGE WITH ISRAELI POLITICS.

>> LET ME ASK YOU, ALON-LEE, NOW YOU ARE A POLITICAL PARTY , TO THE LEFT, RIGHT ?

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN CRITICISMS.

STANDING TOGETHER PARTY IS THE LAST THING THE ISRAELI LEFT NEEDS, THE DIVISION OF THE LEFT COULD EMPOWER AND PLAY INTO NETANYAHU 'S ADVANTAGE.

IF YOU DO NOT MEET AN ELECTORAL THRESHOLD OF 3%, IF YOU FAIL TO ENTER THE KNESSET, YOUR VOTES ARE WASTED .

LET ME READ THIS FROM A PRO-DEMOCRACY GROUP.

WE ARE WITNESSING A PHENOMENON OF THE ESTABLISHMENT OF FRAGMENTS OF PARTIES, MOST OF WHICH HAVE NO REAL CHANCE OF PASSING THE ELECTORAL THRESHOLD.

IMPORTANT TO SAY THE OBVIOUS IN SUCH FAITHFUL ELECTIONS, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR POLITICAL VENTURES, THIS IS A MATTER OF IRRESPONSIBILITY.

WHAT YOU SAY TO THAT, ALON-LEE ?

>> WE HAVE ADDRESSED VERY SIGNIFICANTLY , THE QUESTIONS OF VOTES, NOT MAKING THE THRESHOLD.

WE HAVE ALREADY DECLARED THAT WE WILL BE RESPONSIBLE AND NOT WASTE ANY VOTES.

BUT TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, I THINK IT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE TO NOT BRING THE QUESTION OF PEACE.

IT WOULD BE IRRESPONSIBLE NOT TO CREATE A JEWISH PARTNERSHIP, AND AFTER OCTOBER 7th, THE QUESTION, IN ORDER OF OCCUPATION, >> ALL RIGHT, LISTEN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED FOR TELLING YOU ABOUT THE NEW PARTY, ALON- LEE AND RULA.

>>> LET'S CHECK IN WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN CUBA, IT'S ONCE- ROBUST TOURIST INDUSTRY HAS BEEN GUTTED BY U.S.

SANCTIONS.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION TRIES PRESSURING THE CUBAN GOVERNMENT.

THE SHARP DECLINE IN VISITORS HAS WIPED OUT A KEY SOURCE OF REVENUE FOR HOSPITALITY WORKERS AND MANY CITIZENS FEAR EVEN HARDER TIMES AHEAD.

HERE IS PATRICK OPPMAN IN HAVANA.

>> YOU CAN LOOK FOR TOURISTS , BUT GOOD LUCK FINDING THEM.

THE PRIZES WERE THE MAIN ATTRACTIONS FOR FOREIGN VISITORS.

CUBA'S TOURISM SECTORS --SECTOR SHOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FULL OF , TO SEE HOW BAD IT HAS GOTTEN.

HE WAS TRYING TO PROMOTE THE RESTAURANT WHERE HE WORKS, BUT THERE IS HARDLY ANYONE TO MAKE HIS PITCH TO.

>> YOU DO NOT SEE ANY TOURISTS .

IN THIS SQUARE, THIS GRASS AREA, THE SQUARE IN HAVANA.

MAYBE 10 PERSONS , OR NOTHING.

>> SANCTIONS PLACED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION HAS CONTRIBUTED TO ROLLING BLACKOUTS AND A SCARCITY OF JET FUEL FOR AIRLINES CARRYING TOURIST FROM EUROPE OR CANADA, WHICH HAVE CANCELED FLIGHTS.

DROPPED HAVE INCREASED SANCTIONS ON CHAINS, FORCING MANY TO ABANDON THE ISLAND.

ACCORDING TO OFFICIAL STATISTICS, ONLY 360,000 TOURISTS VISITED THE ISLAND IN THE FIRST FIVE MONTHS OF 2026.

A MORE THAN 58% DROP FROM THE PREVIOUS YEAR.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAID IT IS PRESSURING THE COMMUNIST RULERS TO OPEN THE TIGHTLY -CONTROLLED ECONOMY.

BUT PEOPLE LIKE ILIO AND UNDRESS WHO HAVE BEEN PLAYING MUSIC ON THE STREET CORNER FOR YEARS ARE AMONG THOSE FEELING THE FATIGUE.

WHEN WE MET THEM, THE GUITAR DUO HAD EARNED LESS THAN ONE DOLLAR IN TIPS.

THEY TOLD ME THE ECONOMY HAS NEVER BEEN THIS BAD, EVEN DURING THE PANDEMIC.

>> Translator: THERE ARE NO TOURISTS.

MAYBE THEY ARE AT HOME.

ONE COMES BY EVERY HALF HOUR OR HOUR.

>> EVEN THE FAMED HEMINGWAY TRAIL, THE BARS WHERE THE AMERICAN WRITER DRANK HIS WAY ACROSS SAVANNAH, HAS GONE COLD.

THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST FAMOUS HEMINGWAY'S SIGNATURE ON THE WALL.

HE CAME HERE FOR HIS MOJITO , I HAVE NEVER BEEN ABLE TO COME IN WITHOUT A CRUSH OF TOURISTS.

WE ARE THE FIRST CUSTOMERS OF THE BAY.

IT IS A TOURIST TRAP WITHOUT ANY TORTOISE.

FOR THE FIRST TIME, OFFICIALS SAY, THEY MAY ALLOW YOU BEEN EXILES LIVING ON THE ISLAND TO MANAGE HOTELS.

FULL OWNERSHIP, STILL NOT PERMITTED.

THE COLLAPSE OF THE ECONOMY IS A DISASTER FOR A GOVERNMENT THAT SPENT YEARS POURING SCANT RESOURCES INTO BUILDING HOTELS.

THIS IS NOT ONLY THE LARGEST HOTEL, BUT ONE OF THE MOST EXPENSIVE THINGS THE GOVERNMENT HERE HAS EVER BUILT.

ARCHITECTS TOLD ME IT COST MORE THAN $200 MILLION TO BUILD THIS HOTEL, WHICH IS NOW EMPTY ENCLOSED.

STILL, CONSTRUCTION CONTINUES ON EVEN MORE HOTELS.

PAYING CUSTOMERS ANYTIME SOON.

CUBANS WHO WORK IN TOURISM ARE TRYING ANYTHING TO MAKE ENDS MEET.

ALEXANDER TELL US, --TELLS US HE HAS LOWERED PRICES TO TAKE A CARRIAGE RIDE WITH HIS HORSE SO THAT TORTOISE COULD AFFORD A CITY TOUR.

HE BARELY MAKES ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR HIS GOVERNMENT LICENSE APPEARED MORE REFORM IS NEEDED URGENTLY.

>> WE CAN CHANGE THE SYSTEMIC MODEL, BUT EVERY DAY, DAILY.

IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE THOSE THINGS , YOU WILL NEVER HAVE A REAL FUTURE.

>> Reporter: THE TOURISM INDUSTRY HAS COLLAPSED UNDER INCREASED U.S.

PRESSURE.

NOW, THE FEAR IS THE REST OF THE ISLAND AND THE ECONOMY COULD SOON FOLLOW.

>> CORRESPONDENT PATRICK OPPMAN, REPORTING THOSE EERIE SCENES FROM HAVANA.

SELF EVIDENT, THAT ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL.

OF COURSE, THESE DAYS, THESE ARE SOME OF THE BEST-KNOWN WORDS IN AMERICAN HISTORY.

OUR NEXT GUEST ARGUES THAT THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE REMAINS A UNIFYING TOUCHSTONE.

NETANYAHU THREE IS THE AUTHOR OF "NATIONAL TREASURE" AND A MEMBER OF THE HOOVER INSTITUTION.

HE JOINS WALTER ISAACSON TO EXPLAIN.

>> YOU HAVE THIS GREAT BOOK "NATIONAL TREASURE," WHICH TRACES THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE , EVEN THE PARCHMENT COPY OF IT, I WANTED TO QUOTE A LINE, OUR FOUNDING DOCUMENT REMAINS A POWERFUL STATEMENT OF UNITY, AS MUCH TODAY AS 250 YEARS AGO.

WE ARE ABOUT TO CELEBRATE OUR 250th , WE ARE NOT VERY UNITED, HOW CAN THIS DOCUMENT HELP US REIGNITE --REUNITE?

>> THAT IS THE GREATNESS OF THE DECLARATION OVER HISTORY, MULTIPLE MOMENTS WHERE WE HAVE SEEN THE DEEPLY-DIVIDED, PEOPLE KEPT RETURNING TO IT FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

ONE IS, IT GAVE THIS VISION OF THE TYPE OF FUTURE, THE TYPE OF COUNTRY THAT THEY WANTED TO LIVE IN.

SECOND, THEY WOULD LOOK BACK AT TIMES OF DIVISION TO WHAT SEEMED TO BE A TIME OF MORE UNITY, MEANING 1776 , WHEN PATRIOTS ACROSS THESE VERY, VERY DIFFERENT AND OFTEN DIVIDED COLONIES CAME TOGETHER AND THEY TRIED TO RECAPTURE THAT.

THIRD , BECAUSE I STILL BELIEVE, WALTER, AND I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS REALLY ARE STILL UNITED.

THAT WE HAVE VERY POWERFUL AND STRONG, OFTEN ANGRY VOICES ON BOTH THE RIGHT AND THE LEFT.

BUT THE VAST MAJORITY OF US STILL LIKE OUR NEIGHBORS, TALK TO OUR NEIGHBORS, GO ABOUT DAILY BUSINESS.

AND WHEN THEY DO THAT, THE DOCUMENT IS ONE THAT OFTEN APPEALS TO THEM AS BEING THIS CONSTANT IN THEIR LIVES.

SO, I THINK THAT WE CAN CERTAINLY TALK ABOUT HOW THE FOUNDERS WROTE THE DECLARATION DISTRESS UNITY.

OVER 250 YEARS, IT HAS BECOME THE TOUCHSTONE.

IT IS NOT THE DOCUMENT WE ARGUE OVER, LIKE THE CONSTITUTION.

IT IS THE DOCUMENT THAT TELLS US HOW WE SHOULD WANT TO LIVE TOGETHER.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT IT BEING AN ASPIRATIONAL DOCUMENT, BECAUSE NOT ALL MEN WERE CREATED EQUAL --CONSIDERED CREATED EQUAL ON THE NEW CONTINENT, IN THE NEW NATION LINCOLN, FOURSCORE AND SEVEN YEARS LATER, EVOKES IT AS HE IS BURYING PEOPLE AT GETTYSBURG.

THE WOMEN AT SENECA FALLS DECLARATION .

SO, IS THAT PART OF WHAT MAKES THIS DOCUMENT IMPORTANT IS THAT IT BECOMES A MISSION STATEMENT?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT IS THE GREATNESS OF THE DECLARATION THAT ALLOWS IT TO SILENCES LATER ON.

IT IS WHY DAVID WALKER, THE GREAT BLACK ABOLITIONIST, CAN APPEAL TO THE DECLARATION SAYING YOU AND YOUR FATHERS HAVE NOT LIVED UP TO IT.

HIS WIFE FREDERICK DOUGLASS CAN APPEAL TO IT, WHAT TO THE SLAVE IS THE FOURTH OF JULY?

I DO NOT DESPAIR, BECAUSE OF THE DECLARATION.

AS YOU MENTIONED, ELIZABETH, MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF IMMIGRANTS, FROM NON-WESTERN, WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER WESTERN, NON-DEMOCRATIC NATIONS, WHO EMBRACE THIS DOCUMENT, AND TRANSLATE IT FOR THEMSELVES, WHICH I TRY TO SHOW IN THE BOOK, TO MAKE IT THEIR NEW BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

THE DOCUMENT APPEALS TO ALL OF THESE PEOPLE AGAIN TO THIS POINT OF UNITY.

THEY ARE NOT ASKING FOR SPECIAL TREATMENT.

THEY ARE ASKING FOR REGULAR TREATMENT.

THEY WANT TO BE TREATED FULLY AS AMERICANS, LIKE EVERY OTHER AMERICAN.

THEY WANT TO BE FULLY PART OF THE COUNTRY, AND NOT TO CARVE OFF ENCLAVES OF ANY KIND.

THAT IS WHY I THINK IT IS THE GREAT UNITY DOCUMENT.

THEY UNDERSTOOD THAT, THAT IS WHY THEY APPEALED TO IT .

THEY COULD'VE SAID, THIS IS ILLEGAL.

BUT THEY APPEALED TO THE SPIRIT WITHIN THE DECLARATION TO SAY, WE WANT TO BE FULLY AMERICAN, LIKE THE REST OF YOU.

THAT IS WHY I THINK IT HAS CARRIED THROUGH SO STRONGLY, THROUGH THE 19th AND 20th CENTURIES, THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT, UP TO TODAY.

>> IT HAS CARRIED THROUGH VERY STRONGLY BUT ORIGINALLY IT WAS NOT CONSIDERED THAT BIG OF A DEAL.

FAMOUSLY, JOHN ADAMS, SAID JULY 2nd WILL BE OUR BIRTHDAY, THAT IS WHEN THEY VOTED FOR THEIR INDEPENDENCE.

GEORGE WASHINGTON, HAVING HIS LIEUTENANTS READ IT IN BATTERY PARK TO HIS TROOPS, IT WAS NOT CELEBRATED ACROSS THE CONTINENTS.

HOW DID IT BECOME SUCH AN IMPORTANT AND CELEBRATED DOCUMENT?

>> JULY 4th, JOHN DUNLAP IS SIDES.

JOHN HANCOCK SENDS THEM AROUND THE COLONIES, NOW THE STATES .

WE DO HAVE RECORDS OF IT BEING RED, PHILADELPHIA, JULY 8, GEORGE WASHINGTON, GENERAL WASHINGTON, LEADS IT TO THE TROOPS ON JULY 9th.

IT IS READ IN BOSTON, NEW HAMPSHIRE, IT MAKES ITS WAY DOWN.

IT TAKES A WHILE, OBVIOUSLY, TO GET ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE COLONIES.

SAVANNA DOES NOT GET IT INTO THE MIDDLE OF AUGUST AND THEN THEY FINALLY COULD HEAR THAT THEY ARE A NEW NATION AND WE HAVE THESE ACCOUNTS.

ABIGAIL ADAMS WRITES OF WHAT HAPPENED IN BOSTON, EVERYONE GETS SO EXCITED, THEY THROW DOWN THE ARMS OF THE KING ON THE OLD STATE HOUSE AND TRAMPLE IT INTO THE DUST AND BURN IT.

BUT YOU ARE RIGHT, AFTER THAT, IT HAS DONE ITS JOB.

PRINTED ON BROADSIDES, PRINTED IN THE NEWSPAPERS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP TELLING PEOPLE THEY ARE INDEPENDENT, THEY KNOW.

THERE IS OTHER STUFF TO DO, YOU HAVE TO WIN THE WAR, YOU HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO LIVE TOGETHER AS A NATION.

SO THE DOCUMENT DOES GET FORGOTTEN FOR DECADES AND WHILE AMERICAN CELEBRATE INDEPENDENCE, THEY DO NOT REALLY OFTEN REFERENCE THE DECLARATION.

INTERESTINGLY, BECAUSE OF THAT, THOMAS JEFFERSON IS NOT TRYING TO CLAIM AUTHORSHIP.

JOHN ADAMS IS NOT DISPUTING WHO IS MORE IMPORTANT TO INDEPENDENCE.

BECAUSE THE ISSUE ONLY DEVELOPS LATER.

REALLY, WHERE THE DECLARATION TAKES OFFICE AFTER THE WAR OF 1812, AFTER THE BRITISH WASHINGTON.

IN THE PARCHMENT DECLARATION, WHICH ALMOST NO AMERICAN EVEN KNEW EXISTED, IT TELLS --WAS KEPT ROLLED UP AMONG THE OTHER PAPERS OF STATE.

BY THE SKIN OF ITS TEETH, THIS DOCUMENT IS SPIRITED OUT OF WASHINGTON, CARRIED INTO THE VIRGINIA COUNTRYSIDE, AND SAVED WHEN THE WHITE HOUSE AND CAPITOL, AND STATE HOUSE ARE BURNED.

AMERICAN SAY, THAT IS GREAT.

WHAT WAS SAVED?

IT EXISTED.

NOW THEY WANT TO SEE IT.

A NUMBER OF THINGS HAPPEN RIGHT AT THIS MOMENT.

FIRST OF ALL, A COUPLE OF ENTREPRENEURIAL CALLIGRAPHERS, ESSENTIALLY, AND ARTISTS, CREATE WHAT WE WOULD CONSIDER ARTISTIC REPRODUCTIONS OF THE DECLARATION.

AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, THE VERY CAREFULLY AND FAITHFULLY RETRACED THE SIGNATURES.

THEY HAVE NEVER SEEN THE SIGNATURES.

SUDDENLY YOU ARE SEEING JOHN HANCOCK, THOMAS JEFFERSON, BENJAMIN FRANKLIN, THESE THINGS SELL VERY WELL BY SUBSCRIPTION , YOU HAVE THE FAMOUS PORTRAIT IN THE CAPITOL, NOT THE SIGNING OF THE DECLARATION, IT IS NOT JULY 4th, IT IS THE PRESENTATION OF THE DRIVE TO CONGRESS BUT AMERICANS EMBRACED THIS AS THE MOMENT OF BIRTH AND THEY SELL THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF COPIES.

JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, SECRETARY OF STATE, HAS A FAITHFUL FACSIMILE, THE ONE THAT YOU SEE OVER MY SHOULDER, IN THE MIDDLE THERE, REPRODUCED.

THE STONE ENGRAVING, TO MAKE IT THE ICONIC IMAGE, EVEN AS THE DOCUMENT ITSELF IS FADING , CAN AND THEN, VERY IMPORTANTLY ON JULY 4th, 1821, THE 45th ANNIVERSARY OF INDEPENDENCE, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS BRINGS THE ORIGINAL PARCHMENT TO THE CAPITOL, LEAVES IT IN FRONT OF A CROWD OF THOUSANDS.

HE GIVES HIS FAMOUS SPEECH.

PEOPLE DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE FIRST TIME, AT A TRULY, YOU KNOW, SENIOR LEVEL, HIGH LEVEL, HE LINKS THE DECLARATION TO OUR CONSTITUTIONAL ORDER.

WHAT HAD BEEN FORGOTTEN, WHAT HAD BEEN SEEN SIMPLY AS A LEGAL DOCUMENT, AN INSTRUMENT ANNOUNCING OUR INDEPENDENCE, NOW BECOMES THE WELLSPRING OF OUR SELF UNDERSTANDING, AS A NATION THAT HAD, FIRST OF ALL, TRIUMPH AGAINST BRITAIN FOR THE SECOND TIME IN A GENERATION.

NOW, DRAMATICALLY GROWING AND EXPANDING ACROSS THE WEST.

THIS IS WHERE I THINK IT BEGINS TO TAKE ON THAT NEW LIFE.

THAT LIFE THAT, ULTIMATELY AS YOU MENTIONED BEFORE, REACHES ITS UP OFFICES WITH LINCOLN >> YOU TALK ABOUT THE 45th ANNIVERSARY, JOHN QUINCY ADAMS MAKING SORT OF A NATIONAL DOCUMENT.

WHAT REALLY AMUSES ME, PERHAPS SHOULDN'T, SUDDENLY THERE BECOMES TENSION BETWEEN JOHN QUINCY ADAMS, HIS FATHER, JOHN ADAMS IS STILL ALIVE, AND THOMAS JEFFERSON.

THEY END UP DYING ON THE SAME DAY, THE 50th ANNIVERSARY AND YET, THEY ARE DISPUTING BETWEEN THEM WHO WAS MORE IMPORTANT.

ADAMS , DIMINISHING WHAT JEFFERSON HAD DONE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND I THINK THAT IS PRECISELY REVEALING OF HOW IMPORTANT THE DECLARATION HAD BECOME TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BY THE FOURTH OR FIFTH DECADE OF OUR EXISTENCE.

WHAT HAD, AGAIN, BEEN SEEN AS SOMETHING THAT DID ITS JOB ON ONE DAY, JULY, 1776, NOW DEFINES US AS A PEOPLE AND THE GREATEST SENTENCE WAS BEGINNING TO GAIN PURCHASE.

NOT EVERYWHERE IN THE NATION, BUT IN MANY QUARTERS, TO SAY, THIS IS WHO WE ARE.

SUDDENLY, NOW, YOU HAVE JOHN ADAMS.

YOU HAVE TO BE DRAWN INTO THIS, BY THE ANTI-JEFFERSONIAN PICKERING , WHO SAYS, JEFFERSON DID NOT DO ANYTHING NEW.

JOHN ADAMS IS LIKE, NO, NOTHING THAT HAD NOT BEEN WRITTEN ABOUT FOR YEARS BEFORE.

IT IS A PRIVATE LETTER THAT BECOMES PUBLIC.

JEFFERSON FEELS HE HAS TO RESPOND IN A PRIVATE LETTER TO HIS ALLIES, INCLUDING JAMES MADISON.

HE WRITES, ADAMS IS RIGHT.

IT WAS NOT MY CHARGE TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT HAD NEVER BEEN THOUGHT OR SAID BEFORE.

INSTEAD, IT WAS TO BE AN EXPRESSION OF THE AMERICAN MIND.

>> I LOVE THAT PHRASE, LET'S PAUSE ON IT.

WHY DID HE THE GUY WAS AN EXPRESSION OF THE AMERICAN MIND?

>> FIRST, IT WAS GENIUS TO DO SO.

IDIOTS WRITTEN SOMETHING NEW, JULY, 1776, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE UNDERSTOOD, IF YOU COULD TAKE WHAT AMERICANS HAD BEEN SAYING IN THEIR COLONIAL ASSEMBLY, WHERE THEY HAD BEEN HEARING FROM THE PULPIT , RABBLE-ROUSERS LIKE THOMAS PAINE AND SAM ADAMS HAD BEEN SAYING IN THE STREET, AND PUT IT INTO A DOCUMENT THAT SPOKE TO ALL AMERICANS, THAT WE WOULD TOUCH EVERYONE.

HE WOULD EXPRESS WHAT HAD BEEN THE MOTIVE IDEAS THAT HAD CARRIED US INTO THE REVOLUTION.

AND NOW, EVERYBODY SAID, 1776, CARRYING US THROUGH THE VERY FIRST DIFFICULT YEAR OF THE REVOLUTION.

SO, HE UNDERSTOOD, IT WAS NOT TO MAKE STUFF UP THAT NO ONE HAD EVER COME UP WITH, BUT IT WAS TO TAKE HIS OWN THOUGHTS ON THE CONSTITUTION FOR VIRGINIA.

IT WAS TO TAKE GEORGE MASON'S THOUGHTS ON A VIRGINIA BILL OF RIGHTS, WHICH HE SHORTENS TO LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

IT WAS TO TAKE JOHN ROCK'S THOUGHTS ON THE LIMITATIONS OF GOVERNMENT AND NATURAL RIGHTS.

IT WAS TO TAKE GOOGLE THOUGHT, THIS WAS A VERY PROTESTANT NATION.

PEOPLE WERE HEARING MORE ABOUT LIBERTY FROM THE PULPIT THAN ANYONE ELSE.

IT WAS TO TAKE THAT AND PUT INTO THIS DOCUMENT, AND THEN EXPRESS IT FOR EVERYONE, SO THAT HE COULD WRITE ABOUT AN ATROCITY THAT HAD HAPPENED.

LET'S SAY IN NEW HAMPSHIRE, BUT WRITE IT IN A WAY THAT SOMEONE IN GEORGIA WOULD UNDERSTAND AND FEEL THAT IT HAD HAPPENED TO THEM AS WELL.

AND THIS, LATER IN LIFE, IN THIS EXCHANGE OF LETTERS, HE ACKNOWLEDGES IT.

HE SAYS THIS WAS TO EXPRESS THE AMERICAN MIND.

AT THIS POINT, HE HAD UNDERSTOOD THAT HE HAD DONE SO IN A WAY THAT FITTED NOT JUST THE MOMENT, BUT AS LINCOLN WAS TO SAY, FITTED ALL TIME AND ALL PEOPLE.

>> THE MUSEUM AND CENTER OF FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA OPENED IN CHICAGO THIS PAST WEEK.

AND THE EXHIBIT BEGINS WITH THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> I HAVE NOT BEEN THERE YET, SINCE IT JUST OPENED.

IT IS PERFECTLY APPROPRIATE.

AND I THINK IT SHOULD, IN MANY WAYS .

AND, IN FACT, I THINK IT IS ACTUALLY SURPRISING THAT NO PRESIDENT, UNTIL PRESIDENT TRUMP, PUT A COPY IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

IT IS THAT BIRTHRIGHT THAT I THINK EVERY PRESIDENT, THEY SWEAR TO UPHOLD THE CONSTITUTION AND DEFEND THE CONSTITUTION.

BUT WHAT THEY ARE REALLY DOING IS DEFENDING THE SPIRIT OF THE DECLARATION, BECAUSE IT IS THE SPIRIT OF THE DECLARATION THAT INFUSES THE CONSTITUTION AND, OF COURSE, THE BILL OF RIGHTS.

I THINK IT WAS VERY WELL UNDERSTOOD AT THE TIME.

>> YOU HAVE A THEORY IN YOUR BOOK THAT I LOVE.

WHICH IS, THAT THE IMPORTANCE OF THE DECLARATION RISES OVER TIME, PARTLY BECAUSE OF IMMIGRATION AND THAT, IN SOME WAYS, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BECOME A NATION OF DIVERSE NATION OF HERITAGE OF THE LAND, MAKES US A NATION BASED ON A CREED, WHICH MAKES THIS DECLARATION MORE IMPORTANT.

NOWADAYS, WE ARE KIND OF HAVING THIS DEBATE OVER WHETHER WE ARE A NATION BASED ON A CREED THAT WE ALL ACCEPT, OR ARE WE A NATION BASED ON LAND INHERITED .

HOW DO YOU SEE THE DECLARATION PLAYING INTO THAT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, IT IS OUR CREED.

I WOULD SAY THE CREED IS NOW OUR HERITAGE AND THAT IS THE WONDERFUL THING.

THE IMMIGRANT PART OF THE BOOK, POSSIBLY MY FAVORITE PART OF THE BOOK WAS TO SHOW HOW THE DECLARATION, TRANSLATIONS OF THE DECLARATION, IDEAS OF CIVICS, IT WAS NOT IMPOSED TOP DOWN BY THE MAYFLOWER COMMUNITY.

IT WAS EMBRACED BY THE IMMIGRANTS THEMSELVES, THEY ARE TRANSLATING IT INTO SWEDISH, INTEGRATE, INTO ITALIAN , INTO YIDDISH, IN THE POLISH, INTO RUSSIAN.

THEY ARE THE ONES DOING THE TRANSLATIONS FOR THEIR OWN COMMUNITIES TO SAY, YOU ARE NOW HERE.

AT THIS IS WHERE THOMAS PAINE WAS , THEY WERE CREATING IT FOR THEMSELVES.

YOU ARE AMERICANS, THIS IS YOUR BIRTHRIGHT AND YOU HAVE YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES.

DURING WORLD WAR I, YOU HAVE THIS WONDERFUL GATHERING OF BASICALLY IMMIGRANTS FROM THE DIFFERENT NATIONS CREATED A GROUP TO SUPPORT AMERICA IN THE WAR, PLEDGING THEMSELVES AS LOYAL AMERICANS SAYING THIS IS NOT OUR COUNTRY THOUGH THIS COUNTRY IS ENGAGED IN A WAR IN THE OLD WORLD WHICH WE JUST LEFT.

WE, THE REPRESENTATIVES OF THE OLD NATIONS ARE NOW AMERICANS.

AND WE HAVE OUR RIGHTS AND WE HAVE OUR RESPONSIBILITIES TO UPHOLD THIS CREED.

TO DEFEND THE DEMOCRACY, TO DEFEND THE IDEA, IN THE OLD BY WHO YOU WERE, WHERE YOU WERE BORN, AND THE LITTLE TOWN OR VILLAGE THAT YOU CAME FROM, NOT HERE.

HERE, YOU ARE PART OF THIS GREAT MAINSTREAM, WHAT JAMES TRESSLER ADAMS WOULD CALL THAT AMERICAN DREAM IN 1931.

IN THIS PERIOD WHERE THE COUNTRY HAD BEEN RADICALLY -- DRAMATICALLY CHANGED WITH IMMIGRATION, FROM 1880 TO 1920, AND THE FOREIGN-BORN POPULATION BEING AT LEAST 15%.

IN SOME PLACES LIKE CINCINNATI, IT IS UPWARDS OF 60%.

GERMAN IMMIGRANTS AND OTHER IMMIGRANTS FROM CENTRAL EUROPE.

THEY ARE EMBRACING , TRANSLATING THESE COPIES OF THE DECLARATION, PUTTING IT UP ON THEIR WALLS.

THERE IS A HUNGARIAN TRAVELER GOES TO THE UNITED STATES IN THE 1830s AND HE SAID, I NEVER WENT TO AN IN, INSIDE OF AMERICA, WHAT I DID NOT SEE A DECLARATION ON THE WALL.

STATEMENT OF WHO WE WERE IN A CIVIC POLITY AND THE IMMIGRANTS ADOPTED IT AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE, AS SOME WOULD CALL TODAY THE HERITAGE AMERICANS.

THAT CREED HAS BECOME OUR HERITAGE.

IT IS WHY EACH OF US STILL, I FEEL, YOU KNOW, SHOULD PLEDGE TO EACH OTHER OUR LIVES AND SACRED HONOR IN THIS COMMUNITY.

WE LIVE HERE TOGETHER.

>> MICHAEL AUSLIN, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> AND THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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