June 7, 2024

♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR & COMPANY."

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> OUR FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

AND DEMOCRACY CAN STAND ON ITS OWN BUT WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED.

>> DEFENDING DEMOCRACY.

80 YEARS AGO AND TODAY.

IN EUROPE AND ON THE HOME FRONT.

WE SPEAK WITH JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF CHAIRMAN GENERAL BROWN IN NORMANDY.

>>> THEN DEVASTATION IN SUDAN.

FAMINE, DEATH AND DISPLACEMENT.

WE LOOK INSIDE ONE OF THE WORLD'S WORST HUMANITARIAN CATASTROPHES.

>>> AND -- >> WE'RE GOING TO GET CLOSE.

>> PROTECTING THE VOTE.

AD ADRIAN FONTES IS TRAINING POLL WORKERS TO DEFEND ELECTION SECURITY.

♪ >>> "AMANPOUR & COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS CANDACE KING WEIR THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS MARK J. BLECHNER THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION SETON J. MELVIN CHARLES ROSENBLUM KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> A WARM WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I'M PAULA NEWTON IN NEW YORK SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, WHO WE'LL HEAR FROM FROM FRANCE, WHERE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN JUST SPOKE.

HE STOOD THERE 80 YEARS AGO, 225 U.S. RANGERS FACED WITHERING GUNFIRE THERE TO CLAIM A SMALL PATCH OF TERRITORY.

ONE CRUCIAL STEP IN THE BATTLE TO RECLAIM EUROPE FROM THE NAZIS.

THE PRESIDENT HONORED THOSE WHO FOUGHT AND DIED IN NORMANDY IN 1944 AND SAID THEIR VOICES ARE SUMMONING US RIGHT NOW TO PLAY OUR OWN PART IN DEFENDING FREEDOM.

>> THEY'RE NOT ASKING US TO GIVE OR RISK OUR LIVES, BUT THEY ARE ASKING US TO CARE FOR OTHERS IN OUR COUNTRY MORE THAN OURSELVES.

THEY'RE NOT ASKING US TO DO THEIR JOB, THEY'RE ASKING US TO DO OUR JOB.

TO PROTECT FREEDOM IN OUR TIME, DEFEND DEMOCRACY.

>> IN PARIS, MEANTIME, BIDEN MET WITH UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY AND APOLOGIZED FOR DELAYING A CRITICAL AID PACKAGE HELD UP BY REPUBLICANS IN CONGRESS.

PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SPEECH ECHOED AN ICONIC ADDRESS MADE AT THE SAME SPOT BY HIS PREDECESSOR, RONALD REAGAN, IN 1984.

BIDEN'S IDEOLOGICAL OPPOSITE, BUT THEY ESPOUSED THE SAME VALUES WITH A CRUCIAL DISTINCTION.

REAGAN CONFRONTED THREATS FROM SOVIET COMMUNISM.

PRESIDENT BIDEN FACES A THREAT TO DEMOCRACY FROM ABROAD, FROM RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN AND FROM INSIDE THE U.S. FIRST, CHRISTIANE IS IN PARIS FOR US AND BRINGS US AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH CHARM OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF BROWN.

I CRIED AGAIN WITH JAKE LARSON AFTER WATCHING IT TWICE.

I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO GO TO SOCIAL MEDIA AND LOOK AT IT AGAIN.

BUT GOING TO THE MOMENT, THAT MOMENT FOR PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHAT WAS YOUR TAKEAWAY?

>> WELL, IT HAS BEEN THE MOST DRAMATIC COMMEMORATION I'VE EVER COVERED AND I'VE BEEN DOING IS SINCE 1994.

THE REASON BEING, REALLY SET OUT IN BIDEN'S WORDS, THAT A, THESE VETERANS WHAT DO IT, SOME OF WHOM ARE STILL ALIVE AND BEING CONGRATULATED AND REWARDED AGAIN, THEY'RE A DWINDLING NUMBER.

SECONDLY, THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS WHAT THEY FOUGHT FOR, TO FREE EUROPE AND DESTROY AND KICK OUT THE THIRD REICH TYRANNY, THEY DID IT SUCCESSFULLY AND 80 YEARS LATER, EUROPE IS RAVAGED BY ANOTHER WAR.

IT'S NOT THE SOVIETS OF REAGAN BUT IT'S THE RUSSIANS IN THE FORM OF ONE MAN -- VLADIMIR PUTIN.

HE DECIDED HE WANTS TO RE-ESTABLISH AN IMPERIAL RUSSIA WITH ITS OWN SPHERE OF INFLUENCE AND INTERESTS AND IS TRYING TO GO FOR UKRAINE AND STAMP OUT ANY IDEA OF DEMOCRACY.

BECAUSE THE IDEA OF DEMOCRACY, WHETHER IN THE WESTERN NATIONS OR UKRAINE, IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT TO PUTIN'S HOLD ON POWER AT HOME.

ALL OF THIS AS BIDEN AND THE OTHER WORLD LEADERS AND THE VETS ARE COMMEMORATING THE HEROISM OF 80 YEARS AGO.

I DID SPEAK TO THE CHAIRMAN, CQ BROWN, AN AIR FORCE GENERAL WHO HAS BEEN IN COMBAT.

YESTERDAY HE JOINED ME AT THE AMERICAN CEMETERY IN NORMANDY AND WE SPOKE ABOUT THE REAL THREAT THAT EXISTS TODAY AS THE BATTLE FOR LIBERATION IN EUROPE STARTED IN EARNEST 80 YEARS AGO.

CHAIRMAN, GENERAL CQ BROWN, CONGRATULATIONS, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU TO BE HERE?

>> JUST MAKES ME THINK ABOUT THE WORLD THAT THOSE THAT -- YOUNG PEOPLE THAT WE HAVE TODAY THAT WERE HERE 80 YEARS AGO AND WHAT THEY WERE ABLE TO DO NOT JUST FOR EUROPE BUT FOR THE WORLD.

AND DID HAVE A CHANCE TO MEET A COUPLE OF THEM THIS MORNING.

COMPLETELY IMPRESSIVE.

I'VE HAD A LONGTIME FASCINATION WITH D-DAY AND NORMANDY GROWING UP, SO BEING HERE -- >> WHAT SORT OF NUGGET DID YOU TAKE FROM THEM?

>> JUST THEIR STORIES, HAVING READ THEIR STORIES, NUMBER OF THEM WERE 17, 18 YEARS OLD, SOME FORGED THEIR MOTHER'S SIGNATURES TO JOIN.

AND NOT ONLY WHAT THEY DID FOR D-DAY, BUT FULL CAREERS AFTER THAT, AND THEY -- HOW THEY CONTINUED TO SERVE, NOT JUST IN UNIFORM BUT CONTINUED TO SERVE THE NATION.

>> YOU'RE AN AIR FORCE GENERAL AND YOU'VE FLOWN IN COMBAT.

WE'LL HAVE FLYOVERS AND EVERYONE WILL REMEMBER WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY AND DAYS AFTER D-DAY.

FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE AS A COMBAT AIRMAN, WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN GOING ON, THE C-130s, S SPITFIRES AND OTHER PLANES INVOLVED?

>> THE ORCHESTRATION, ALL THE TRAINING.

PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU COME INTO A COMBAT SITUATION CERTAIN THINGS YOU CAN'T PREDICT, YOUR TRAINING COMES INTO PLAY AND YOU USE THE BEST OF YOU KNOW AND MAKE DECISIONS IN THE MOMENT.

THAT'S WHAT THEY WERE ABLE TO DO IN THE TIME FRAME, AND WHAT OUR SERVICE MEMBERS DO TODAY.

I HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR SERVICE MEMBERS BUILT ON THE GREATEST GENERATION WHICH ALLOWS US TO DO WHAT WE DO TODAY.

>> WE'RE ALL IN THE MIDST OF A RAGING WAR IN EUROPE, UNLIKE ANYTHING IN 80 YEARS, WE'VE NOT HAD THIS KIND OF WAR.

THIS CELEBRATION OF THE HEROISM AND EVENTUAL SUCCESS AND LIBERATION, DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY, DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD, IN YOUR CAREER, BE HERE WHEN IT'S AT STAKE AND AT RISK AGAIN IN SUCH A REAL FORM?

>> NO.

NOT AT ALL.

BUT I FEEL VERY FORTUNATE THAT I HAVE -- I'VE BEEN PREPARED FOR THE POSITION I'M IN TODAY, JUST LIKE SO MANY SERVICE MEMBERS THAT WEAR THE UNIFORM, PREPARED FOR VERY COMPLEX SITUATIONS.

I HAVE COMPLETE CONFIDENCE IN OUR FORCE, THE WORK WE DO WITH OUR ALLIES AND PARTNERS.

AND THIS IS WHY IT'S IMPORTANT TO PAY ATTENTION AND REALIZE WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY IS TO PREVENT AND THINK ABOUT WHAT COULD HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE.

AND THE WORK DONE 80 YEARS AGO IS THE REASON WHY WE CAN BE HERE TODAY.

>> PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY IS HERE AND OBVIOUSLY GRATEFUL FOR EVERYTHING AMERICA HAS DONE IN TERMS OF ARMS SUPPLIES AND SUPPORT, BUT IT IS STILL VERY MUCH ON A KNIFE'S EDGE.

THE DELAY OF GETTING AMERICAN WEAPONS, SEVEN MONTHS, GAVE RUSSIA A HEAD START AND IS THE CROSSING OF THE LINE INTO KHARKIV.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN THAT BATTLEFIELD, NOW, THE NEXT WEEKS AND MONTHS?

>> I CAN'T PREDICT WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

BUT WHEN UKRAINE HAS BEEN PROVIDED CAPABILITY, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO DO, WORK AND DEFEND THEMSELVES AGAINST A SUPPOSED MORE CAPABLE LARGER MILITARY.

MY HAT'S OFF TO THE WILL AND BRAVERY OF THE UKRAINIAN PEOPLE AND THEIR SERVICE MEMBERS.

HAVING THE CHANCE TO MEET WITH THEM AND TALKING TO THEM ON A ROUTINE BASIS.

BUT WE'VE GOT TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT THEM.

WHEN AGGRESSION HAPPENS TO ONE PART OF THE WORLD, IT CAN BROADEN TO OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.

WE SAW THAT OVER 80 YEARS AGO.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY CAN REVERSE THE ADVANCES RUSSIA HAS MADE?

IT WAS A SIGNIFICANT DELAY AND UKRAINIANS BLAME THAT DELAY FOR LOSING MEN AND TERRITORY.

>> EVEN IF YOU LOOK AT THE PAST YEAR, IT HAS NOT BEEN A DRATATIC SHIFT IN THE LINES THERE.

BUT AGAIN, WE'VE GOT TO CONTINUE TO SUPPORT UKRAINE AND BE ABLE TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THIS AGGRESSION BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE IMPACT NOT JUST FOR UKRAINE AND EUROPE BUT FOR THE ENTIRE WORLD.

>> GENERAL, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT HOW MUCH FURTHER NATO WILL GO IN SUPPORTING UKRAINE.

THE FRENCH PRESIDENT SAID THERE SHOULD BE PROBABLY NATO BOOTS ON THE GROUND AS TRAINERS.

YOU SAID IT'S INEVITABLE, DO YOU STAND BY THAT?

>> WHEN I MADE THAT COMMENT ABOUT INEVITABLE, IT'S AFTER THE FACT -- WE WERE SUPPORTING THEM WITH TRAINERS BEFORE THE CONFLICT STARTED.

I SUSPECT WHEN THE CONFLICT IS OVER, WE'LL GO BACK TO TRAINING.

AT THE MOMENT PUTTING TRAINERS INTO UKRAINE DOESN'T NECESSARILY -- IT CREATES MORE RISK FOR NATO AND NATO PARTNERS.

>> SO IT'S OFF THE TABLE AT THE MOMENT?

>> FOR US, IT IS.

>> I READ IN PREPARATION FOR THIS INTERVIEW AND D-DAY, MEMBERS OF THE ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE, WHO YOU AND YOUR COUNTERPARTS REGULAR TESTIFY AGAINST, SAYING THAT ACTUALLY, AMERICA IS IN A BIND.

IT IS THE STRONGEST MILITARY IN THE WORLD, HAS HAD THE MOST EXPERIENCE, THE HEAVIEST LIFT CAPACITY, BUT CHINA IS OUTPACING NEW THE NAVY, IN MISSILES, WE CAN SEE THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH HARDWARE AND AMMUNITION PRODUCTION JUST IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN UKRAINE.

WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO HAPPEN TO THE AMERICAN MILITARY TO SUIT THE HISTORY THAT WE'RE LIVING RIGHT NOW?

>> JUST LIKE YOU SAID, WE ARE THE MOST COMBAT CAPABLE, MOST RESPECTED FORCE IN THE WORLD.

AND MY GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE IT STAYS THAT WAY.

PART OF THAT WORK IS WHAT WE DO AS A NATION, NOT ONLY THOSE IN UNIFORM BUT THE DEFENSE INDUSTRIAL BASE TO INCREASE THAT CAPACITY.

WE'VE SEEN THAT OCCUR OVER THE COURSE OF THE PAST TWO-PLUS YEARS AS EVENTS PLAYED OUT IN UKRAINE.

WHAT IT HAS ALSO HELPED US DO IS FOCUS.

BECAUSE THE -- THIS THREAT RAISES A LOT OF AWARENESS THAT OUR FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

AND DEMOCRACY CAN STAND ON ITS OWN BUT WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE WE'RE PREPARED.

ONE OF THE THINGS I FOCUS ON IS ENSURING WE HAVE THE WAR FIGHTING SKILL TO DETER A FUTURE CONFLICT.

>> IT'S BEEN SAID THAT AMERICANS OF THIS GENERATION HAVE NOT INTERNALIZED WHAT A LOT OF MILITARY, CERTAINLY NATO MILITARY, BELIEVE, IT'S NOT INCONCEIVABLE THERE COULD BE A GREAT POWER WAR AGAIN AND YOU HAVE TO PREPARE FOR IT.

DO YOU THINK PEOPLE AT HOME, EVEN IN EUROPE, UNDERSTAND HOW DIFFICULT A SITUATION WE'RE LIVING THROUGH RIGHT NOW?

>> WHAT I'LL TELL YOU, I HAVE A SENSE IT'S COMING ON.

HAVING WORKED IN THE INDO-PACIFIC BEFORE, HERE IN EUROPE, AND IN THE MIDDLE EAST, I'VE WATCHED OVER THE YEARS, PARTICULARLY THE PAST FEW YEARS, HOW THE WAR -- NOT ONLY FOR THOSE IN UNIFORM BUT ELECTED LEADERSHIP AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, AND WE HAVE GOT TO CONTINUE TO REMIND FOLKS.

WE CAN'T JUST WATCH, WE'VE GOT TO LEAD.

>> DO YOU ALSO SHARE FEARS THAT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MEMORY -- I MEAN IT'S POSSIBLE THERE COULD BE A GREAT POWER WAR?

WHETHER IN EUROPE, WITH CHINA.

>> I'M NOT FEARFUL.

I'M CONFIDENT.

MY CONFIDENCE IS THE -- THOSE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM TODAY HAVE THE SAME DEDICATION OF THOSE WHO SHOWED UP HERE 80 YEARS AGO.

BUT WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THEY HAVE ALL THE CAPABILITY POSSIBLE SO IT'S NOT A FAIR FIGHT.

THAT'S WHAT I FOCUS ON AS CHAIRMAN.

>> THE NAZIS MURDERED IN THE DEATH CAMPS 6 MILLION JEWS, THE MOST HORRENDOUS BARBARITY THAT PEOPLE CAN DIGEST.

NOW WE SEE ANTI-SEMITISM RISING IN EUROPE AND THE UNITED STATES AND ELSEWHERE AT THE SAME TIME AS HORRORS ARE COMMITTED IN ISRAEL.

YOU TOOK THE POSITION AT THE SAME TIME, AND THIS HORRIBLE WAR IN GAZA -- WHAT WOULD BE BEST FOR AMERICA AND FOR THE WORLD?

IN THAT CONFLICT RIGHT NOW?

WE'RE NOT IN EUROPE, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK NEEDS TO HAPPEN?

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE GOT TO CONTINUE TO ALLOW COUNTRIES TO DEFEND THEMSELVES, UKRAINE OR ISRAEL.

AT THE SAME TIME WE HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION TO THE CIVILIAN POPULATION, THE IMPACT.

AS A MILITARY MEMBER, HAVING WORKED IN COMBAT AND LED COMBAT OPERATIONS, YOU'VE GOT TO TAKE CARE OF THE COMBAT ASPECT OF IT, BUT ALSO PAY ATTENTION TO THE CIVILIANS WHILE YOU'RE EXECUTING.

THAT'S SOMETHING, AS I ENGAGE WITH MY COUNTERPARTS, IT'S A CONVERSATION WE HAVE ON A RECURRING BASIS.

>> THEY SAY TO ME THAT THE RATIO BETWEEN THAT THEY SAY IS HAMAS AND CIVILIANS IS ACCEPTABLE, POINT TO WHAT THE U.S. DID IN IRAQ OR AFGHANISTAN, AND WE KNOW U.S.

WEAPONS HAVE BEEN USED EVEN IN SOME OF THE LATEST HORRORS, IN TERMS OF THE ATTACK ON THE SHELTER IN RAFAH.

WHAT IS APPROPRIATE GOING AFTER A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION WITH AN AIR FORCE FOR INSTANCE?

>> I CAN'T SPEAK FOR WHAT THE ISRAELIS ARE DOING.

BUT FROM MY EXPERIENCE, DURING THE DEFEAT ISIS CAMPAIGN, WE WANTED TO BE PRECISE AS POSSIBLE, BUT REALIZE THERE'S THE POTENTIAL.

YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR ADVERSARY.

AND HAMAS IN THIS CASE TENDS TO SURROUND THEMSELVES WITH CIVILIANS WHICH INCREASES THE RISK TO CIVILIANS.

AS WE EXECUTE, TALK TO PARTNERS AND EXECUTE TOGETHER, WHEN THEY'RE EXECUTING, WE TALK ABOUT HOW BEST TO MINIMIZE -- >> DO THEY LISTEN?

>> THEY DO.

THEY'RE EXECUTING THE OPERATIONS.

I'M NOT, BUT WE HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.

I DO SENSE IN THE DIALOGUE THEY DO LISTEN AND ADJUST BASED ON THE CONVERSATION.

>> FINALLY, THERE'S GOING TO BE AIR FLYOVERS, C-130s, F-45s, AS AN AIRMAN YOURSELF, WHAT WILL YOU BE FEELING?

>> HAVING BEEN IN A COCKPIT AND BEING ABLE TO OPERATE OR FLY OVER COMBAT OPERATIONS, I APPRECIATE IT MORE WATCHING IT.

IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, YOU'RE IN THE MOMENT.

BEING ABLE TO LOOK AT IT, GIVES ME A CHANCE TO REFLECT, REFLECT ON MY SERVICE, THE SERVICE OF THOSE VETERANS HERE TODAY, BUT ALSO THOSE REPRESENTED BY THE CROSSES BEHIND US.

YOU THINK ABOUT AND REFLECT ON THOSE SERVICE MEMBERS AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THE IMPACT THEY'VE HAD, THOSE THAT PAID THE ULTIMATE SACRIFICE.

THOSE THAT CONTINUE TO RAISE THEIR RIGHT HAND AND TAKE AN OATH, I'M JUST SO PROUD OF THEM.

>> MR. CHAIRMAN, GENERAL, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> THERE'S SO MUCH TO REFLECT ON.

UKRAINE, PRESIDENT ZELENSKYY HAS BEEN HERE MEETING WITH PRESIDENT BIDEN AND MACRON.

BOTH PLEDGING MORE AID IN COMBAT, THE FRENCH PLEDGING FIGHTER JETS.

IT'S HUGE THING.

THEY REALLY NEED THEM.

IN TERMS OF WHAT PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID ABOUT THE BOYS IN THE WORDS OF PRESIDENT REAGAN 40 YEARS AGO, HE CHALLENGED AMERICANS, AT HOME AS WELL, SAYING DO YOU REALLY BELIEVE, I'M PARAPHRASING, THAT THESE RANGERS WHO DID WHAT THEY DID WOULD EXPECT ANYTHING LESS FROM US TODAY IN THE UNITED STATES?

WOULD EXPECT US NOT TO DEFEND DEMOCRACY AT HOME OR ABROAD?

HE REALLY THREW DOWN A GAUNTLET FOR AMERICANS ON THE VALUE OF DEFENDING DEMOCRACY AND FREEDOM, BEING WILLING TO FIGHT AND DIE FOR IT AND MAINTAINING ALLIANCES.

REALLY MAKING A POINT/COUNTERPOINT BETWEEN HIM AND TRUMP AS THEY HEAD TO THE ELECTION.

I THINK ALLIES WILL HAVE FOUND PRESIDENT BIDEN'S SPEECH INCREDIBLY INVIGORATING WITH HIS COMMITMENT TO KEEP AMERICA IN THE FIGHT FOR DEMOCRACY ABROAD AND TO DEFEND THE ALLIANCE.

PAULA.

>> THE CRUCIAL QUESTION IS WILL THAT SPEECH RESONATE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE SO MANY ARE TURNING TOWARD A CERTAIN BRAND OF ISOLATIONISM NOW.

I'M GLAD YOU ASKED THE CHIEF OF STAFF WHETHER OR NOT A GREAT POWER WAR IS POSSIBLE.

SO MANY SEE THE SHOCK OF WAR COME TO THEIR DOORSTEP WITHOUT REALIZING IT WAS A POSSIBILITY.

THANKS FOR YOUR REPORTING FROM FRANCE.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> NEXT WE TURN TO THE HUMANITARIAN CRISIS UNFOLDING IN SUDAN WHERE A CIVIL WAR BETWEEN TWO RIVAL GENERALS IS HAVING A CATASTROPHIC IMPACT ON THE CIVILIAN POPULATION THERE.

UNICEF IS CONDEMNING AN ATTACK THAT LEFT 35 CHILDREN DEAD.

150 PEOPLE AT LEAST WERE KILLED AND HUNDREDS OTHERS INJURED IN THE ATTACK BY REBEL FORCES ON THE VILLAGE.

OUR CORRESPONDENT REPORTS ON THE DISTURBING EVIDENCE EMERGING.

WE WARN YOU, SOME OF THE IMAGES ARE DIFFICULT TO WATCH.

>> Reporter: AWAITING BURIAL, THE VICTIMS OF ANOTHER COSTLY DAY IN SUDAN'S CIVIL WAR.

LOCAL OFFICIALS AND EYEWITNESSES SAY.

CNN CANNOT INDEPENDENTLY CONFIRM THE CLAIMS.

THESE IMAGES WHICH OUR TEAMS GEOLOCATED WERE SHARED ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY ON ACTIVIST GROUP.

MOST OF THOSE KILLED HERE WERE CIVILIANS, LOCALS TOLD US, INCLUDING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.

AN RSF SPOKESPERSON SAID THURSDAY IT TARGETED ARMY BASES IN THE AREA.

LOCALS DISPUTED THE CLAIM.

THE U.N.'S TOP OFFICIAL IN SUDAN HAS CALLED FOR A THOROUGH INVESTIGATION BUT IT MAY TAKE TIME.

IN THE CENTRAL STATE, FIGHTERS ARE ATTEMPTING TO GAIN GROUND.

THEY CONTROL MUCH OF THE CAPITAL, KHARTOUM, SEIZED AFTER THE LEADER FELL OUT WITH THE ARMY CHIEF IN APRIL LAST YEAR.

UNLEASHING VIOLENCE ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> TWO MEN, BASICALLY, DECIDED THEY WERE GOING TO RESOLVE THEIR DIFFERENCES THROUGH FIGHTING, THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE THEIR COUNTRY DOWN.

AND THIS WAS AN AVOIDABLE CONFLICT.

>> Reporter: SINCE THEN, MORE THAN 15,000 PEOPLE HAVE REPORTEDLY BEEN KILLED ACCORDING TO ONE NGO, SOME 9 MILLION DRIVEN FROM THEIR HOMES AND SOME RISK OF IMMINENT FAMINE.

MANY SOUGHT SAFETY IN WESTERN DARFAR, BUT THAT CITY IS NOT SAFE AS THEY CONTINUE TO GAIN GROUND.

>> THE DEVASTATING REALITY IN SUDAN.

OUR NEXT GUEST SAYS WHAT IS HAPPENING CAN SCARCELY BE DESCRIBED AS SHORT OF APOCALYPTIC.

SHE JOINS ME, ALONGSIDE WITH A "NEW YORK TIMES" CORRESPONDENT WHO SPENT THREE YEARS IN SUDAN.

BOTH ARE JOINING FROM NAIROBI.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

WHAT WE SAW IN THE REPORT IS THE LATEST ATROCITY IN THE MORE THAN YEARLONG CIVIL WAR.

TRULY HARROWING IMAGES, WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH IS CLEARLY UNIMAGINABLE.

THE U.N. SAYS THE NUMBER OF INTERNALLY DISPLACED PEOPLE COULD REACH 10 MILLION.

YOU WROTE RECENTLY THAT FORGETTING SUDAN'S WAR IS A PRIVILEGE SUDANESE DON'T HAVE.

TELL US WHAT IT'S LIKE, MUST BE A FEVER NIGHT MARE TO WATCH THI CRISIS UNFOLD IN YOUR HOME.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

IT'S ONE YOU CAN'T GET AWAY FROM.

EVERY SUDANESE PERSON I KNOW WAKES UP WITH DREAD IN THE PIT OF THEIR STOMACH TO GET NEWS OF FAMILY MEMBERS, FRIENDS, COLLEAGUES, ET CETERA KILLED IN THE WAR.

SEVERAL RECENTLY DISPLACED AND THOSE IN THE DIASPORA FOR SOME TIME ARE SUPPORTING FAMILY MEMBERS AND FRIENDS, ET CETERA.

IT'S BECOME A VERY ACUTE TRAGEDY IN THE VERY SHORT SPACE OF TIME.

>> VERY SHORT SPACE OF TIME INDEED.

SOME OF WHAT YOU RECOUNTED, IT'S SHOCKING WHAT FAMILIES HAVE HAD TO ENDURE, WHAT THEY'RE ESCAPING.

YOU SPENT THREE WEEKS TRAVELING ACROSS SUDAN, HARROWING EXPERIENCE ITSELF WITH YOUR COLLEAGUE.

YOU WENT FROM THE PORT OF SUDAN TO THE CAPITAL, KHARTOUM, WHAT WAS THAT JOURNEY LIKE?

AND I AM REALLY WONDERING WHAT YOU SAW WHEN YOU ARRIVED IN KHARTOUM, BECAUSE APPARENTLY MANY CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT'S HAPPENED TO THAT CITY.

>> IT'S A JOURNEY ALONG A ROAD THAT MANY RESIDENTS OF KHARTOUM TOOK IN EARLY STAGES OF THE WAR FLEEING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

WHEN WE WENT DOWN IT, IT WAS LARGELY DESERTED.

BUT AS WE GOT CLOSER TO KHARTOUM, WE PASSED CHECKPOINT UPON CHECKPOINT, JUMPY FIGHTERS, INTELLIGENCE AND MILITARY PERSONNEL.

AS WE CAME INTO THE CITY, WE SAW FIGHTER JETS OVERHEAD, LARGE PLUMES OF SMOKE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE NILE WHERE A BATTLE WAS TAKING PLACE.

AND THEN WE REACHED INTO THE WESTERN PART OF KHARTOUM, A PART OF THE CITY WHERE THE SUDANESE MILITARY HAS SCORED SOME MODEST ADVANCES THE LAST NUMBER OF MONTHS, AND WE ENTERED INTO AN AREA OF UTTER DESTRUCTION.

THERE HAVE BEEN VERY INTENSE FIGHTING, ENTIRE STREETS OF BUILDINGS WERE DESTROYED OR LOOTED, VERY FEW PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN THOSE PARTS OF THE CITY.

THOSE THERE WERE STILL QUITE STUNNED AND TOLD HARROWING STORIES HOW INTENSE THE FIGHTING HAD BEEN AND HOW THEY MANAGED TO STAY ALIVE THROUGH IT.

>> THE STORIES OF SURVIVAL ARE JUST CHILLING.

IN HIS REPORTING, HE SPOKE TO A MAN WHO TOLD HIM ALL OF THIS COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

YOU SAY THIS WAR IS IN MANY WAYS AN INEVITABLE AND DEEPLY UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCE OF NEARLY SEVEN DECADES OF MILIT MILITARIZED POLITICS IN SUDAN.

I TAKE IT AS TRUTH BUT HOW COULD IT HAVE BEEN AVOIDED?

WHO HAD TO STEP IN HERE?

>> FIRST AT STAKE, A COUNTRY VERY MUCH IN FAMINE ALREADY.

WITH THE LARGEST DISPLACED POPULATION, TOTAL STATE COLLAPSE OR ON THE VERGE OF TOTAL STATE COLLAPSE BECAUSE THE WAR STARTED IN KHARTOUM, AND IT WAS HIT FIRST AND HARDEST.

IN MANY WAYS THE WAY THAT THE FIGHTING BROKE OUT WAS BECAUSE THE GENERALS IN CHARGE, WHO HAVE FOR MOST OF SUDAN'S HISTORY BEEN IN CHARGE, COULDN'T SETTLE THEIR DIFFERENCES IN ANY OTHER WAY THAN ARMED CONFLICT.

THAT'S WHY THE INEVITABILITY.

A MILITARY REGIME ENTRENCHED FOR DECADES, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY THAT CONFLICT CAN BE ADDRESSED.

WHAT NEEDS TO BE UNDERSCORED, THERE WERE OPPORTUNITIES BEFORE THE FIGHTING BROKE OUT TO REALLY ENGAGE DIPLOMATICALLY ACROSS A VARIETY OF INTERNATIONAL AXES, BUT WE NEVER SAW IT HAPPEN BECAUSE THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WAS VERY COMPLACENT, EXPECTING A POLITICAL DEAL TO BE SIGNED WHEN ALL FACTORS POINTED TO INCREASING ENMITY BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES THAT WERE NEVER PROPERLY ADDRESSED.

>> WHAT IS TO BE DONE NOW THOUGH, YOU UNDERSCORE THE HYPOCRISY OF FRAMING SUDAN AS A FORGOTTEN CONFLICT.

MANY OF US HAVE SAID THAT, BUT YOU SAY THIS PRIVILEGES THE ONLOOKERS.

I'LL POINT TO INTERNATIONAL OFFICIALS WHO SEEM AT A LOSS.

THEY'VE STOPPED AND STARTED A LOT OF PEACE NEGOTIATIONS HERE, BUT WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO THEM CAN BE DONE THIS HOUR?

>> WE'VE SEEN THE UNITED NATIONS BEHAVE AS AN ACTIVIST ORGANIZATION, CALLING FOR CHANGES TO BE MADE, WHEN SOME OF THOSE CHANGES ARE IN ITS HANDS.

LAWMAKERS AND OFFICIALS FROM THE WEST TALK ABOUT HOW SUDAN SHOULD BE PUT ON THE MAP AND NOT FORGOTTEN, BUT THEY'RE PRECISELY THE PEOPLE ALLOWING IT TO BE DEPRIORITIZED AND FORGOTTEN.

THERE'S A GRIM IRONY THERE.

LAST FEW DAYS, COMMEMORATING D-DAY AND NUMBERS OF PEOPLE KILLED IN WORLD WAR II, BUT INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITIES ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO PEOPLE DYING NOW.

IT'S THAT STRANGE POLITICAL BEHAVIOR THAT'S SCHIZOPHRENIC THAT I THINK IS THE PROBLEM.

BRINGING THIS WAR TO AN END WILL NOT HAPPEN WITHOUT SERIOUS LEVERAGE PUT ON THE TABLE.

WITH ALL THE MYRIAD MEDIATION PLATFORMS WE'VE SEEN, NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS PUT PRESSURE ON THE WARRING PARTIES TO GET THEM TO STOP THE WAR.

I DON'T SEE HOW IT STOPS WITHOUT THAT.

>> JUST TO PICK UP ON THAT SUFFERING.

WFP SAYS SUDAN HAS THE POTENTIAL TO BE THE WORLD'S LARGEST HUNGER CRISIS.

IN TERMS OF EVERYTHING WE TALK ABOUT IN VARIOUS CONFLICTS AROUND THE WORLD, YOU REPORTED ON THE FAMINE WARD IN HOSPITALS.

CHILDREN ARE STARVING RIGHT NOW.

YOU HAD A PICTURE OF A YOUNG GIRL, TAKEN BY YOUR COLLEAGUE, TELL US MORE ABOUT HER STORY, BUT ALSO THE LEVEL OF HUNGER YOU WITNESSED.

>> WE WENT TO MALNUTRITION WARDS IN PORT SUDAN AND KHARTOUM.

WE SAW DISTRESSING SCENES THERE, VERY CROWDED UNITS IN ALREADY OVERCROWDED HOSPITALS, LARGELY FILLED WITH VERY MALNOURISHED CHILDREN, MANY JUST BROUGHT IN BY THEIR DESPERATE PARENTS.

IN KHARTOUM, ONE WOMAN BROUGHT HER TWINS, 7 MONTHS OLD, THEY HAD COME ACROSS THE FRONT LINE, AN EXTREMELY DIFFICULT JOURNEY, FROM A PART OF THE CITY CONTROLLED BY ONE FACTION, TOLD US HOW HER FOOD SUPPLY DWINDLED, HER CHILDREN BECAME SICK AND SHOWED SIGNS OF EXTREME MALNUTRITION AND SHE FELT THEY HAD TO MAKE THIS DESPERATE JOURNEY THROUGH CHECKPOINTS MANNED BY FIGHTERS, WHO WERE LOOTING AND DEMANDING MONEY.

OTHERS HAVE SEEN PEOPLE SHOT AT THESE CHECKPOINTS.

IT WAS A MEASURE HOW DESPERATE PEOPLE WERE TO FIND HELP BUT THE PROBLEM IS THERE'S SO LITTLE HELP AVAILABLE.

IN SOME OF THE HOSPITALS, SUPPLIES ARE EXTREMELY LOW, VERY LITTLE HELP IS GETTING THROUGH AND MOST OF THE HOSPITALS IN THE KHARTOUM REGION ARE CLOSED.

SO MANY WERE BOMBED IN THE FIGHTING, OTHERS CLOSED BECAUSE THE STAFF HAD GONE.

IT'S JUST AN EXTREMELY ACUTE SITUATION, AND IT'S PARTICULARLY SHOCKING IT'S TAKING PLACE IN KHARTOUM.

JUST 15 MONTHS AGO, IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST POPULOUS CITIES IN AFRICA, VERY SOPHISTICATED PLACE.

HAD BEEN CERTAINLY HOPES FOR A TRANSITION TO DEMOCRACY HAD TAKEN A BIG BLOW WITH THE COUP IN 2021, BUT THERE WAS A PROCESS GOING ON.

BUT WE SAW SO MUCH DESTRUCTION OF THE CITY IN A SHORT PERIOD OF TIME.

>> ANOTHER PICTURE.

HASSAN, AGE 14, SHOT IN THE STOMACH BY YOUTH GROUPS FIGHTING ALONGSIDE SUDAN'S MILITARY NOW.

THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE CALLED NOW.

BUT I WANT TO RETURN BACK TO THE ISSUE OF 2019, RIGHT?

SO MANY YOUNG PEOPLE TAKE TO THE STREETS, PROTESTING AGAINST FORMER PRESIDENT BASHIR, BUT THEY HAD HOPES AND DREAMS THAT SUDAN WOULD BE MUCH DIFFERENT THAN WE'RE LOOKING AT NOW.

WHAT DID YOU SEE IN TERMS OF WHAT HAS BECOME OF THIS GENERATION?

>> THAT GENERATION UNFORTUNATELY IS COMPLETELY SPLINTERED.

MANY LEFT THE COUNTRY AT THE START OF THE WAR, MANY STAYED ON AND TURNED TO RELIEF WORK.

THEY RUN WHAT WERE KNOWN AS RESISTANCE COMMITTEES WHICH LED THE UPRISING AGAINST PRESIDENT BASHIR ARE TURNED INTO EMERGENCY RESPONSE.

THEY PROVIDE WHAT LITTLE RELIEF AID IS ABLE IN PARTS OF KHARTOUM.

BUT OTHER INDIVIDUALS HAVE TAKEN DIFFERENT PATHS.

PEOPLE I MET BEFORE THE WAR HAD BEEN AT FRONT LINE OF PROTESTS AGAINST THE ARMY, FIRING STONES, RISKING THEIR LIVES.

SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE HAVE JOINED THE GROUP YOU REFERENCED, THE MILITIAS, POPULAR DEFENSE MILITIAS, WHO HAVE TAKEN UP ARMS, USUALLY ON THE SIDE OF THE SUDANESE MILITARY AGAINST THE SUPPORT SERVICES.

YOU SEE A YOUNG GENERATION, SOURCE OF SO MUCH HOPE, NOW EITHER TRYING TO FIND A NEW PLACE IN POLITICS OR TAKING UP ARMS AS PART OF WAR.

>> SOME OF THE REPORTS THAT HAVE COME OUT ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE KILLED BUT ALSO THE RISK OF GENOCIDE.

I WANT TO HEAR FROM THE U.N. SPECIAL ADVISER ON THE PREVENTION OF GENOCIDE.

SHE WARNS THAT THE SITUATION TODAY BEARS ALL THE MARKS AND RISKS OF GENOCIDE.

WITH STRONG ALLEGATIONS THIS CRIME IS ALREADY BEING COMMITTED, WHY DOES IT SEEM THESE WARNINGS ARE GOING UNHEEDED?

>> I THINK THERE ARE SEVERAL REASONS, ONE, IT'S VERY HARD TO GET DATA FROM ON THE GROUND BECAUSE OF THE TELECOMS BL BLACKOUT.

BUT THERE'S BEEN RESEARCH THAT INDICATES CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND IN THAT CASE, A GENOCIDE.

ONE HAS TO REMEMBER THE WAR THAT STARTED OVER 20 YEARS AGO HAS NEVER FULLY BEEN RESOLVED, AND WE'RE SEEING THE SAME PATTERNS OF VIOLENCE NOW AS THEN.

THIS IS KIND OF A SLAM DUNK IN TERMS OF CHARACTERIZING THIS POLITICALLY AND LEGALLY AS A GENOCIDE.

THERE'S A RETICENCE OF USING THE WORD GENOCIDE BECAUSE OF OTHER CATEGORIES, SUCH AS PALESTINE, FEARING PRESSURE TO DECLARE IT ELSEWHERE.

BUT IT'S NO LONGER A POSITION THAT'S TENABLE OR FORGIVABLE.

AND THE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN VICTIM OF SERIOUS ATROCITIES AND THE NUMBERS WE WERE EXPECTING TO SEE WITH THE TAKEOVER SIMPLY MAKE TURNING AWAY FROM AND IGNORING THE ATROCITIES TAKING PLACE, INCLUDING GENOCIDE, COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE TO IGNORE.

I THINK WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN VERY, VERY QUICKLY IS THAT THE UNITED NATIONS NEEDS TO -- FOLLOWED BY MEMBER STATES, PARTICULARLY IN THE WEST, NEEDS TO DECLARE THAT GENOCIDE HAS BEEN TAKING PLACE IN SUDAN AND DECLARE THAT A FAMINE IS TAKING PLACE IN SUDAN.

WITHOUT THOSE TWO THINGS, IT'S IMPOSSIBLE TO PUT IN PLACE PROTECTION OF CIVILIANS MECHANISMS TO HAVE ANY IMPACT SAVING LIVES.

>> I HAVE LESS THAN A MINUTE LEFT, WE COULD WRITE A BOOK ABOUT FOREIGN INTERFERENCE IN SUDAN NOW AS WELL.

HOW MENACING IS IT AND HOW DANGEROUS DOES IT MAKE THE SITUATION?

>> HONESTLY, IT'S THE WORST-CASE SCENARIO THAT PEOPLE FEARED AT THE OUTSET OF THE WAR, UNFORTUNATELY SEEMS TO BE COMING TO PASS.

THE TWO BELLIGERENTS HAVE SHOWN NEITHER SIDE IS CAPABLE OF WINNING MILITARILY, SO TURNING TO OUTSIDE COUNTRIES LARGELY FOR WEAPONS TO TRY AND BOOST THEIR CHANCES.

COUNTRIES LIKE THE UNITED ARAB EMIRATES ON ONE SIDE, RUSSIA AND IRAN ON THE OTHER SIDE, AND UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S LEADING TO GREATER CARNAGE ON THE BATTLED WITH CIVILIANS ALSO BEING KILLED, AND GREATLY COMPLICATING TRYING TO REACH A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTIONS.

>> WE HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

GRATEFUL FOR YOUR INSIGHTS.

APPRECIATE IT.

>>> NEXT TO ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, WHICH WE WANT TO REMIND YOU IS GROWING MORE POWERFUL BY THE DAY.

AND IF IN THE WRONG HANDS CAN BE WEAPONIZED, STOKING THE FLAMES OF MISINFORMATION AS WE GEAR UP FOR THE UNITED STATES PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

A MAN WORRIED ABOUT CAMPAIGN CONTENT MEETS TO TALK ABOUT COMBATTING THE CHALLENGE.

IT'S PART OF THE WNET STREAMING SERIES "TAKE ON FAKE," WHICH ANALYZES FAKE OR ALTERED IMAGES OR AUDIO TO FIGHT THE SPREAD OF MISINFORMATION.

WE'VE USED GRAPHICS TO IDENTIFY THE FAKES AND HELP PREVENT THEM FROM BEING USED FURTHER.

AT A TIME THERE ARE SO MANY CRITICAL CHOICES, OUR GOAL IS TO HELP YOU SEPARATE FACT FROM FICTION.

>> SECRETARY OF STATE FONTES, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU'VE DONE SOMETHING RADICAL IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS, TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THERE IS GOING TO BE A FLOOD OF MISINFORMATION AND DISINFORMATION AROUND THE ELECTION.

WHY DID YOU DO THIS?

>> FIRST, THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

SECOND, WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED.

PROTECTING DEMOCRACY IS A CRITICAL COMPONENT OF WHAT WE SHOULD DO AS ELECTION ADMINISTRATORS ACROSS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

WE'RE SEEING SIMILAR PREPARATIONS IN A VARIETY OF AREAS, NOT JUST PERSONNEL AND INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SECURITY, FOR SOFTWARE AND NETWORKING SYSTEMS, WE'RE DOING IT IN OTHER WAYS IN ARIZONA AS WELL.

PROLIFERATION OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, PARTICULARLY GENERATIVE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE IS SOMETHING A LOT OF PEOPLE HAVEN'T SEEN YET.

JUST TO MAKE SURE THE FOLKS WHO RUN THE FUNDAMENTALS OF OUR DEMOCRACY ARE PREPARED, WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO HELP THEM.

>> YOU HAVE A MILITARY BACKGROUND AND YOU RAN TABLETOP EXERCISES WITH GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

EXPLAIN THAT.

>> THIS IS TYPICAL IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND MILITARY SPACES.

YOU SIT AROUND A TABLE AND IMAGINE A GAME OF DUNGEONS & DRAGONS, BUT THE SCENARIOS ARE REAL.

IMAGINE WALKING THROUGH AN ELECTION DAY WITH NEWS REPORTS COMING AT YOU, DIFFERENT FOLKS TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT END UP HAPPENING.

THAT IS WHAT WE DO IN OUR TABLETOP EXERCISES.

WE INJECT INTO A REGULAR DAY'S CONVERSATION SOME OF THE SCENARIOS THAT FOLKS MIGHT FACE SO THEY'RE PREPARED WHEN IT ENDS UP HAPPENING.

HOW DO YOU TALK TO YOUR COMMUNICATIONS FOLKS, SUPPLY CHAIN FOLKS, LAW ENFORCEMENT FOLKS, AND THIS HAPPENS RAPID FIRE.

RUNNING ELECTIONS, YOU'VE GOT ONE DAY.

CALENDAR DOESN'T STOP, YOU'VE GOT TO DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT.

NO ELECTION IS PERFECT BUT WE'RE HOPING TO GET CLOSE.

>> YOU'RE TRYING TO DO THIS TO PREPARE PEOPLE ON YOUR TEAM, LAW ENFORCEMENT, MEDIA, SO THAT IF THIS HAPPENS ON ELECTION DAY THEY'RE NOT SURPRISED BY IT AND HAVE MAYBE GONE THROUGH THE MOTIONS BEFORE?

>> EXACTLY RIGHT.

THAT'S WHY WE'RE USING DEEPFAKES CREATED BY ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE OF MYSELF AND OTHER ELECTIONS OFFICIALS.

WE STARTED IN DECEMBER TRAINING ELECTIONS OFFICIALS.

WE CONTINUED WITH MEDIA TABLETOP EXERCISE FOR OUR PARTNERS IN LOCAL AND NATIONAL MEDIA.

AND THIS MONTH IN JUNE WE'RE DOING LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCIES SO THEY CAN AT LEAST SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

IF THERE'S ANYTHING I LEARNED IN THE MARINE KOCORPS, YOU WANT TO LEARN WITH THE WEAPONS THE ENEMY USES AGAINST YOU SO YOU'RE PREPARED.

>> I WARN THE AUDIENCE, THIS IS A CLIP, NOT OF YOU -- WE'RE SPEAKING TO THE HUMAN BEING YOU.

IT'S PROBABLY THE SAME DESK BUT LET'S PLAY THE CLIP OF THE VIDEO.

FEELS AMAZINGLY REAL.

THAT'S WHY I WANTED TO PREPARE THE AUDIENCE.

>> THIS IS AN IMPERSONATION OF ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE ADRIAN FONTES USING GENERATE OF ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.

THIS IS PART OF THE EXERCISE FOR THE MEDIA TO MAKE SURE FOLKS UNDERSTAND THE CAPABLES OF DEEPFAKE TECHNOLOGY AND THE DANGERS IT POSES TO THE PUBLIC.

>> HOW DIFFICULT WAS IT TO MAKE?

>> I LOOKED INTO THE CAMERA AT MY DESK AND READ OFF THE SCREEN ABOUT 30 SECONDS.

THEN I HAD A CONVERSATION WITH THE TECHNOLOGIST FOR FOUR MINUTES WHILE THE GENERATION OF THAT DEEPFAKE HAPPENED.

THEY HAD PROGRAMMED IN THE TEXT THAT THE DEEPFAKE WAS SUPPOSED TO SAY AND BAM, IT HAPPENED.

>> PUT A FINE POINT ON IT.

NONE OF THE WORDS IN THAT VIDEO EVER CAME OUT OF YOUR MOUTH.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE RECORDING REMIXED THINGS YOU HAD ALREADY SAID, THIS IS SOMETHING YOU HAD PHYSICALLY NOT SAID BUT YOU HAD A COMPUTER SAY -- PRETENDING TO BE YOU IN YOUR VOICE, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THE TECHNOLOGY LEARNS MY VOICE, MANNERISMS, THE WAY I LOOK.

IT LEARNS THE ENVIRONMENT BEHIND ME AND WHAT I'M WEARING.

AND YOU CAN MAKE IT DO WHATEVER YOU WANT.

COULD HAVE CHANGED THE JACKET COLOR TO GREEN, CHANGE THE LANGUAGE AND THE WAY MY MOUTH MOVES WOULD MATCH IT.

WE'VE DONE IT IN OTHER LANGUAGES AS WELL.

THEY'RE CONVINCING.

>> I WANT TO SHOW THE AUDIENCE A CLIP OF YOU SPEAKING GERMAN.

I TOOK HIGH SCHOOL GERMAN, THIS IS BEYOND WHAT I UNDERSTAND.

>> LET'S TRY TALKING IN GERMAN.

[ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] CONSIDER THE BEST AND WORST WAYS THIS TECHNOLOGY COULD BE USED.

IT ALLOWS AN INDIVIDUAL TO COMMUNICATE WITH AN AUDIENCE IN THEIR NATIVE LANGUAGE USING THEIR VOICE.

BUT A MALICIOUS ACTOR COULD SPREAD DANGEROUS LIES.

>> GAME IN OUT FOR ME.

NEAR ELECTION DAY, A VIDEO SHOWS UP ON MY FACEBOOK PAGE, THE SECRETARY OF STATE OF ARIZONA SPEAKING IN WHATEVER LANGUAGE I'M COMFORTABLE SAYING YOU KNOW WHAT, THE POLLS ARE SUDDENLY CLOSED AT 2:00.

WHAT -- HOW DO I PROCESS THIS INFORMATION?

KNOWING THAT IT COULD BE YOU, COULD NOT BE YOU?

>> THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS, THERE ARE TRUSTED SOURCES OF INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE CAN DEPEND ON, MOSTLY, IN THE UNITED STATES, THE SECRETARY OF STATES' OFFICES, LOCAL ELECTION ADMINISTRATOR AT COUNTY OR MUNICIPAL LEVEL, AND THE RULES ARE SET SOLIDLY AHEAD OF TIME.

IT'S A VERY, VERY RARE EMERGENCY, ALMOST NEVER HAPPENS THAT POLLS GET CLOSED.

UNLESS THERE IS AN EMERGENCY OF SOME SORT.

USUALLY THAT'S DEFINED TO A NARROW GEOGRAPHIC LOCATION, ONE OR TWO POLLING PLACES IN A FLOOD OR HURRICANE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

IF SOMETHING INVOKES EMOTION IN YOU, THAT'S CRAZY, WEIRD, STRANGE, WE'RE ASKING FOLKS TO GO TO TRUSTED SOURCES OF INFORMATION AND FIND OUT IF WHAT YOU JUST SAW IS SOMETHING CREATED TO EVOKE THAT EMOTION IN YOU BECAUSE IT SEEMS UNUSUAL.

THIS IS ONE OF THE WAYS WE'RE TRYING TO GET FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND AND BE BETTER CONSUMERS OF INFORMATION, EVEN IF IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S COMING FROM SOME OF THOSE TRUSTED SOURCES.

>> ONE OF THE VIDEO SAMPLES GOT A LOT OF ATTENTION IN ARIZONA.

I WANT TO PLAY THIS YEAR.

KERRY LAKE, A REPUBLICAN RUNNING FOR SENATE.

>> I'M KERRY LAKE, SUBSCRIBE TO THE ARIZONA AGENDA FOR HARD-HITTING REAL NEWS AND A PREVIEW OF THE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE COMING YOUR WAY.

THIS VIDEO IS A DEEPFAKE THEY MADE TO SHOW YOU HOW GOOD THE TECHNOLOGY IS GETTING.

DID YOU REALIZE THIS VIDEO IS FAKE?

IN SIX MONTHS, THE TECHNOLOGY WILL BE BETTER.

BY THE TIME THE ELECTION ROLLS AROUND, YOU'LL HARDLY BE ABLE TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN REALITY AND VIRTUAL REALITY.

>> THIS WAS NOT REAL, THEY SENT OUT A CEASE AND DESIST ORDER.

I'M LIKE WAIT THAT LOOKED LIKE AN AD, ONLY THING MISSING IS I'M JOE BIDEN AND I APPROVE THIS MESSAGE OR I'M DONALD TRUMP, AND THAT CAN BE FAKED.

>> INTERESTING THAT YOU SAY STAMPED, THERE ARE MAJOR TECHNOLOGY COMPANIES WORKING WITH MY OFFICE AND I BELIEVE OTHER SECRETARIES OF STATE TO FIGURE OUT A METHOD BY WHICH WE CAN WATERMARK, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, AUTHENTIC MESSAGES FROM OUR OFFICES.

IF YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT -- PARTICULARLY THE INFORMATION, NOT SO MUCH ABOUT CANDIDATES, BUT A LOT OF STATES ARE MAKING LAWS ABOUT THAT.

IF YOU WANT TO LOOK AT TIME, PLACE AND MANNER, REGULATIONS OF HOW ELECTIONS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

GO TO THE DOT.GOV WEBSITES, THEY'RE USUALLY PRETTY WELL TUFT TRUSTED.

OTHER THING, MAKE SURE YOU'RE GETTING INFORMED NOW ABOUT CANDIDATES, HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT ISSUES, WHAT THEY THINK OF CERTAIN POSITIONS AND MAKE UP YOUR MIND EARLY.

WHAT WE DO KNOW, EARLY VOTING IS REALLY AVAILABLE IN A LOT OF PLACES ACROSS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

THAT OPTION IS AVAILABLE.

TO AVOID LAST-SECOND EMERGENCY ISSUES, WE'RE TELLING PEOPLE TO THINK ABOUT THAT AS AN OPTION.

>> BIT OF CIVICS LESSON FOR PEOPLE, YOUR BUDGET TO CONDUCT THIS FREE AND FAIR ELECTION IN ARIZONA, THAT IS NOT COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S TRUE.

IT'S BEEN A PET PEEVE OF MINE FOR A LONG TIME.

I'VE BEEN UP AND DOWN CAPITOL HILL TRYING TO GET FOLKS TO UNDERSTAND ELECTIONS WERE DECLARED AN AMERICAN CRITICAL INFRASTRUCTURE IN JANUARY OF 2017.

THERE IS STILL NO SUSTAINED FEDERAL FUNDING FOR ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATION IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

JUST LIKE AIRPORTS OR DAMS OR BRIDGES, THIS KEEPS AMERICA MOVING.

ELECTIONS ADMINISTRATION IS CRITICAL TO THE NATION, TO THE REPUBLIC.

WE'VE GOT TO FUND IT FROM THE FEDERAL LEVEL, FEDERAL OFFICES AND FEDERAL ELECTIONS UNDER FEDERAL RULES.

STATES HAVE THEIR OWN ISSUES ACROSS THE COUNTRY, MANY OF THEM ARE UNDERFUNDING THE ELECTIONS OFFICES BECAUSE FOLKS ASSUME IT HAPPENS ONCE EVERY COUPLE OF YEARS.

WE PLAN FOR ELECTIONS TWO YEARS AHEAD OF TIME.

WE'VE GOT TO GET STUFF READY, THERE'S A LOT GOING ON BEHIND THE SCENES.

WE HAVE TO ADVOCATE FOR FORCEFULLY FOR OUR BUDGETS AND THE SAFETY OF OUR FOLKS AND MAKE SURE THEY MAINTAIN THE PROFESSIONAL TRAINING AND UPKEEP WE NEED TO PROTECT OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> YOU HAVE A THREAT ANALYST THAT WORKS IN YOUR OFFICE, IS THAT RIGHT?

>> YES.

CHIEF INFORMATION SECURITY OFFICER HERE WHO OVERSEES OUR SECURITY DEPARTMENT.

IT'S FOUR PEOPLE DEEP, ONE IS A THREAT ANALYST.

THIS IS A PERSON WHO UNFORTUNATELY SPENDS A LOT OF TIME IN THE DEEP, DARK CORNERS OF THE INTERNET WATCHING THE CONVERSATIONS HAPPENING, PAYING ATTENTION TO POTENTIAL THREATS THAT MAY ARISE.

AND THEN WHEN APPROPRIATE, COMMUNICATING THOSE TO LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR APPROPRIATE INVESTIGATION.

OR ANY OTHER SORT OF ACTION THEY MAY DECIDE TO DO.

WE'RE NOT A LAW ENFORCEMENT AGENCY, BUT WE BELIEVE THAT KEEPING OUR FOLKS WELL INFORMED AND SAFE IS GOING TO MAINTAIN -- GOING TO STAY A PRIORITY FOR MY ADMINISTRATION.

WE'VE GOT MORE THAN OUR SHARE OF THREATS IN THIS OFFICE TO MYSELF AND MY STAFF, WE'RE GOING TO BE VIGILANT.

>> WHAT IS THE THREAT ATMOSPHERE LIKE?

I REMEMBER THE SCENES AT THE POLLS, ESPECIALLY ELECTION WATCHERS THAT WERE AT TIMES KIND OF ENCROACHING ON THE WORK OF PEOPLE TRYING TO COUNT THE BALLOTS.

WHAT HAS IT BEEN LIKE TO BE PART OF OR RUN THE ELECTIONS IN ARIZONA OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS?

>> IT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE, PARTICULARLY SINCE THERE'S A GROUP OF PEOPLE IN THE UNITED STATES WHO DECIDED THEY DON'T LIKE DEMOCRACY, DON'T WANT TO TRUST THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS AND DON'T WANT ELECTIONS TO ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

WANT TO HAVE UNDUE AND VIOLENT INFLUENCE ON CITIZENS DOING THEIR JOB.

WE'VE HAD TO STEP UP IN A SPACE WE'RE NOT GENERALLY SPEAKING EXPERIENCED IN, MY MILITARY BACKGROUND ASIDE.

WE'VE PARTNERED WITH FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND STATE AGENCIES TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR OUR FOLKS.

DOING TRAINING, SOME OF IT MIGHT BE SCARY, BUT WE WANT OUR PEOPLE AND EMPLOYEES TO BE SAFE AND MOSTLY WANT OUR VOTERS TO FEEL SAFE, VOAT HOME, BALLOT BY MAIL WHICH IS ROBUST, OR A VOTING CENTER IN ARIZONA.

WE'RE GOING TO DO WHATEVER WE CAN TO MAINTAIN OUR FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS IN ARIZONA, WHICH WE'VE DONE ACROSS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA FOR A LONG TIME.

>> HAVE YOU OR MEMBERS OF YOUR OFFICE BEEN THREATENED WITH PERSONAL HARM?

>> I HAVE, OTHERS HAVE.

WE REACT APPROPRIATELY.

NOT A LOT OF DETAILS I'M WILLING TO SHARE.

BUT END OF THE DAY, WE TRUST OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT PARTNERS TO ADVISE US WELL.

AND WE ARE SEEING AN INCREASE IN INVESTIGATIONS AND PROSECUTIONS FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE AND THE FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION, PARTICULARLY IF AND WHEN THREATS COME FROM OUTSIDE OF OUR STATE LINES.

THIS COOPERATION, WE'RE VERY GRATEFUL FOR.

BUT IT'S TOO BAD IT HAS TO HAPPEN.

IT'S TOO BAD THERE ARE PEOPLE OUT THERE OPERATING IN THE WORLD OF GRIEVANCE ONLY AND THINK THAT INTIMIDATION AND THREATS IS THE WAY CIVILIZED SOCIETY OUGHT TO RUN.

IT'S NOT.

WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT AGAINST IT, DEFENSE AGAINST IT AND DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO PROVIDE GOOD ELECTIONS AND SOLID, BELIEVABLE OUTCOMES FOR OUR VOTERS.

>> AS WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, YOU HAVE A CASE IN YOUR STATE WITH RUDY GIULIANI AND 18 OTHERS INDICTED FOR SPREADING FALSE INFORMATION ABOUT VOTER FRAUD IN THE 2020 ELECTION.

DO YOU SEE A LINK BETWEEN WHAT HAPPENED THEN AND THE ECOSYSTEM WE'RE IN NOW, WHERE PEOPLE HAVE BASICALLY ALTERNATE FACTS AND REALITIES OF WHAT'S HAPPENING AND MIGHT NOT TRUST THE RESULTS OF THE ELECTION IN YOUR VERY STATE?

>> THERE'S ABSOLUTELY A CORRELATION.

THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF THE SAME BIG LIE THAT'S POLLUTED THE AMERICAN POLITICAL SYSTEM FOR A LONG TIME.

BUT THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL ISSUE.

THIS IS NOT D VS. R THING.

THIS IS DEMOCRACY VERSUS NONDEMOCRACY THING.

THIS IS AMERICANS TRUSTING ONE ANOTHER AND MOVING FORWARD WITH THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER, VERSUS PEOPLE WHO DON'T CARE WHAT THE VOTE IS, WHETHER YOU WON OR LOST.

THE PEOPLE WANT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTIONS AS A VALUE.

I CAN'T SPEAK TO THE CRIMINAL INDICTMENT AND FOLKS ON THE GRAND JURY DECIDED THERE WAS EVIDENCE, SO BE IT.

THIS IS AN EXTENSION OF THE SAME BIG LIE AND UNFORTUNATELY WE HAVE PEOPLE IN PUBLIC OFFICE WITH THE TEMERITY TO CONTINUE TO DENY THEIR FELLOW CITIZENS ARE JUST DOING THEIR JOBS WELL, IN SPITE OF THE FACT THEY HAVE ZERO EVIDENCE TO SHOW ANY OF THOSE CLAIMS TO BE TRUE.

FOLKS OUGHT TO STOP LYING AND GET ON WITH THE PROGRAM.

IF YOU WIN, YOU WON, IF YOU LOSE, TRY HARDER NEXT TIME.

THAT'S HOW AMERICAN ELECTIONS ARE TRSUPPOSED TO WORK.

>> WE HAVE A CANDIDATE, DONALD TRUMP, SAYING IF HE DOESN'T WIN, THE SYSTEM IS RIGGED AGAINST HIM, THE ELECTION IS ALREADY RIGGED.

WHEN YOU HAVE AN ENORMOUS NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS IN ARIZONA WITH THIS CONCERN, FONTES IS ALREADY IN THE TANK, I'M NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THE RESULTS IF I DON'T LIKE THE OUTCOME, HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THAT LARGE SEGMENT OF YOUR POPULATION?

>> I REFER THEM BACK TO 2020.

I WAS ON THE BALLOT WITH DONALD TRUMP IN 2020 WHEN I RAN, AND I LOST LIKE HE DID.

AND I BELIEVED THE VOTERS, I BELIEVED IN THE AMERICAN CITIZENS WHO RAN OUR ELECTIONS, BECAUSE I SAW IT FROM THE INSIDE.

I WAS THERE AS WE PERFORMED POST ELECTION AUDITS, SAW THE REALITY AND WAS WILLING TO CONCEDE BECAUSE THE PEACEFUL TRANSFER OF POWER IN THIS COUNTRY FROM ONE ELECTED OFFICIAL TO THE OTHER IS A HALLMARK OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.

ALL OF THE COURT CASES HAVE SHOWN ZERO EVIDENCE, ALL OF THE ACCUSATIONS HAVE PROVEN TO BE FALSE.

THIS IS NOT A POLITICAL THING, LEFT VERSUS RIGHT THING.

THIS IS A TRUTH AND REALITY VERSUS THE GRIEVANCE OF SOME PEOPLE THING.

I'M NOT GOING TO BACK DOWN BECAUSE SOMEBODY SCREAMS POLITICS.

THEY'RE WRONG BECAUSE MY TRACK RECORD PROVES THEY'RE WRONG.

>> ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE, THANKS FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

>>> FINALLY FOR US, WE REMEMBER A POWERFUL MOMENT WHEN SOLIDARITY STOOD STRONG AGAINST BIGOTRY AND HATRED.

A PALESTINIAN ACTIVIST WAS HARASSED AND ASSAULTED BY ISRAELI YOUTHS CELEBRATING ISRAEL DAY, THE CAPTURE OF EAST JERUSALEM IN THE 1967 WAR, A PLATFORM NOW FOR THE FAR RIGHT MARKED BY VIOLENCE BETWEEN ISRAELIS AND PALESTINIANS.

KICKED AND PUNCHED BY MARCHERS, HE WAS TRYING TO REPORT ON THE EVENTS, ON HONORABLE DUTY IN ANY THRIVING DEMOCRACY.

AN ISRAELI JOURNALIST STEPPED IN TO SHIELD FROM THE BLOWS.

SPEAKS VOLUMES HOW FREEDOM OF THE PRESS AND SAFETY OF JOURNALISTS SHOULD NOT BE MERE POLITICAL TOKENS.

THAT'S IT FOR US.

THANK EVERYONE FOR WATCHING.

GOODBYE FROM NEW YORK.