Making The Case For Trump’s Tariffs

AND NOW FROM TARIFFS TO TAX CUTS, AND PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP PROMISES TO REVITALIZE THE UNITED STATES BRINGING IN A NEW GOLDEN AGE.

ECONOMIST LAUREN KATZ RUNS A THINK TANK THE AMERICAN COMPASS TO RESTORE THE NATION'S LIBERTY, AND HE IS LOOKING AT DISCUSSING AMERICAN FISCAL LIBERTIES AND WHAT HE THINKS OF TRUMP'S PLANS.

>> THANK YOU, BEIAN KA.

WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> YOU STARTED A GROUP CALLED AMERICAN COMPASS, AND IT HAS HELPED TO SHIFT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND YOUR OWN THINKING SHIFTED AWAY FROM JUST A GROWTH-ORIENTED ECONOMY TO ONE THAT WAS MORE POPULOUS, AND TELL ME IF THAT IS RIGHT, AND EXPLAIN WHY AND HOW IT HAPPENED.

>> IT IS MOSTLY RIGHT, AND I SHOULD SAY THAT GROWTH IS RIGHT, AND I DON'T WANT TO LIVE IN A LOG CABIN IN THE WOODS, BUT THE WAY WE FOCUSED ON GROWTH IS GROWTH FOR ITS OWN SAKE, AND ASSUMED THAT ALL GROWTH IS GOOD, AND I ALWAYS REFER TO THAT WE ARE HEARING THE ECONOMIC PIE METAPHOR, AND XWROE THE PIE, AND THEN EVERYONE CAN HAVE MORE PIE.

WE REALLY DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT WAS IN THE PIE OR WHO GOT HELP BAKE IT, AND MAYBE TAKE THE METAPHOR TOO FAR, BUT PEOPLE DON'T JUST CONSUME STUFF.

IT IS IMPORTANT THEIR IDENTITIES AS WORKERS AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT STILL MAKES STUFF, AND WE ARE NOT DEPENDENT ON OTHER COUNTRY, AND I THINK THAT REALLY OVER THE LAST DECADE, AND SINCE 2012, WE SAW THE COST OF NOT CARING ABOUT THOSE THINGS.

AND SO, MY FOCUS, AMERICAN COMPASS' FOCUS, AND THE FOCUS OF CONSERVATIVES IS YES, WE WANT GROWTH, BUT WHAT KIND OF GROWTH?

HOW DO WE KNOW IT IS GROWTH THAT SUPPORTS WORKERS AND FAMILIES.

>> AND TARIFFS ARE A PART OF THE CENTER OF THE ARGUMENT OF THIS NEW CONSERVATIVE POPULISM, BUT IN SOME WAYS, CONSERVATISM AND REPUBLICANS HAVE GENERALLY BEEN FOR FREE TRADE.

WHAT CHANGED?

>> WELL, IT IS FUNNY, BECAUSE IT DEPENDS WHAT TIME FRAME YOU LOOK AT, AND REPUBLICANS WERE THE PARTY OF TARIFFS FOR MOST OF THE REPUBLICAN HISTORY, AND ABRAHAM LINCOLN WAS PROUDLY A TARIFF MAN, AND McKINLEY AND EISENHOWER HAS A WHOLE SECTION IN HIS MEMOIR HOW HE TALKS ABOUT, YES, WE STARTED TO OPEN UP FREE TRADE AFTER WORLD WAR II, BUT WITH AN EYE FIRST AND FOREMOST TO PROTECTING THE AMERICAN WORKERS, AND EVEN RONALD REAGAN WHEN HE CAME TO JAPAN ESPECIALLY, HE WAS SO PROTECTIONIST THAT THE KATO INSTITUTE CALLED HIM THE MOST PROTECTIONIST PRESIDENT SINCE HERBERT HOOVER, AND SO IT IS A POST-COLD WAR IDEA THAT THE FOLKS LEFT OF CENTER, AND I WOULD SAY LIBERTARIAN IN THE MARKET FUNDAMENTALIST MORE SO THAN CONSERVATIVES WHO JOINED WITH THE FOLKS LEFT OF CENTER, AND THE LARRY SUMMERS OF THE WORLD, AND WHO IS BILL CLINTON'S TREASURY SECRETARY TO ALL SAY FREE TRADE IS THE ANSWER, AND FREE TRADE IS GOING TO SOMEHOW MAKE EVERYBODY BETTER OFF, AND THE REALITY IS THAT IT HAS NOT WORKED.

>> WE HAVE GONE THROUGH THE ELECTION IN WHICH INFLATION WAS THE HUGE ISSUE, AND AREN'T YOU WORRIED THAT TARIFFS COULD RAISE THE PRICE OF AMERICAN GOODS?

>> WELL, TARIFFS ARE DEFINITELY GOING TO HAVE SOME EFFECT ON THE PRICES ESPECIALLY ON THE SHORT RUN, BUT THAT IS IN PART THE POINT, RIGHT?

TO MAKE IT MORE ATTRACTIVE TO BUY THINGS MADE HERE IN AMERICA.

I THINK THAT THE RIGHT WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS WITH THE REFERENCE TO THE PAST, TO THINK ABOUT WHERE WE WERE IN THE YEAR 2000 WHEN PEOPLE WERE SAYING THAT WE SHOULD GET RID OF THE TARIFFS AND DO FREE TRADE WITH CHINA AND THAT WILL MAKE PEOPLE BETTER OFF, AND WE HAVE TO ASK OURSELVES, DID IT MAKE PEOPLE BETTER OFF?

YES, IT WAS CHEAPER, BUT THE MAJORITY OF THE AMERICANS RECOGNIZE IT WAS NOT A GOOD TRADEOFF AND SO THE CHEAPEST THING MADE WITH SLAVE LABOR AND SUBSIDIZED BY A COMMUNIST PARTY NOT ACTUALLY CERTAINLY NOT A FREE MARKET TO BE BUYING THAT.

IT DOES NOT SERVE FAMILIES WELL, AND DOES NOT SERVE COMMUNITIES WELL, AND SO NOTHING IS FREE, AND THERE ARE TRADEOFFS IN ALL OF THE POLICY DECISIONS, BUT IF WE BELIEVE THAT WE MADE THE TRADEOFFS WRONG WHEN WE LEANED ALL IN ON FREE TRADE, THEN WE SHOULD HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT WE WILL BE GETTING THE TRADEOFF RIGHT WHEN WE GO TO OTHER WAY INSTEAD.

>> WELL, WHAT'S THE POINT OF DOING THAT?

IS IT TO BRING BACK MANUFACTURING JOBS?

IS IT TO HAVE MUCH MORE OF THE MADE IN AMERICA PROGRAM?

>> I THINK THAT THE FUNDAMENTAL GOAL IS TO BRING OUR ECONOMY BACK INTO BALANCE.

YOU KNOW, HIGH LEVELS OF TRADE COULD BE A GREAT THING IF IT WERE ACTUALLY TRADE, RIGHT?

THAT IS THE STORY THAT WAS TOLD TO US, AND THERE ARE THINGS THAT PEOPLE CAN MAKE MORE EFFICIENTLY FOR US, AND WE WILL MAKE THINGS MORE EFFICIENTLY FOR THEM, AND WE WILL BE BETTER OFF, AND IF WE COULD DO THAT, THAT IS GREAT, BUT WHAT HAS HAPPENED INSTEAD IS THAT THINGS THAT WE USED TO MAKE ARE MADE ELSEWHERE, AND THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT WE MAKE INSTEAD.

>> ISN'T THAT ON US?

ISN'T THAT A PROBLEM WITH OUR OWN MANUFACTURING?

>> NO, IT IS NOT.

BECAUSE THE REASON THAT EVERYTHING MOVED OFFSHORE IS NOT THAT THERE IS SOMETHING WRONG WITH AMERICAN WORKERS AND IN FACT, THE AMERICAN WORKERS ARE THE MOST PRODUCTIVE IN THE WORLD.

IT IS BECAUSE FOREIGN COUNTRIES ARE NOT PLAYING BY THE RULES.

CHINA AGGRESSIVELY SUBSIDIZING AND PAYING FOR THE COST OF WHAT MOSTLY WENT INTO THE COST OF MAKING THINGS THERE, AND HELPING THE COMPANIES TO EXPLOIT THE WORKERS THERE, AND ANOTHER GOOD EXAMPLE IN VERY HIGH TECHNOLOGY PRODUCTS AND THINK OF THE SEMICONDUCTORS AND WE INVENTED THE SEMICONDUCTORS AND WE WERE THE WORLD'S LEADER IN SEMICONDUCTORS AND WHY IS TAIWAN NOW THE LEADER IN SEMICONDUCTORS AND NOT BECAUSE THERE IS ANYTHING SPECIAL ABOUT THE OUTCROPPING THERE, IT IS BECAUSE CHINA'S GOVERNMENT PLOWED ALL OF THE MONEY INTO SAYING, BUILD THE WORLD'S SEMICONDUCTORS HERE, AND THE MODEL DID NOT WORK, BECAUSE THE ECONOMISTS DID NOT THINK VERY HARD ABOUT HOW THE PEOPLE, THE COUNTRIES WERE BEHAVING, AND SO I THINK THAT IF WE CAN GET BACK TO THE SITUATION WHERE THERE IS ACTUALLY A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD, WE CAN GET BACK TO THE KIND OF FREE MARKET THAT CERTAINLY I WANT TO HAVE, AND THAT, THAT DOES TYPICALLY WORK FOR PEOPLE, AND YES, IT IS GREAT IF WE ARE BUYING THINGS FROM OTHER COUNTRIES, BUT THEY ALSO NEED TO BUY THINGS FROM US, AND THAT IS GOING TO CREATE BETTER JOBS AND STRONGER COMMUNITIES IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT IS GOING TO CREATE FRANKLY MORE RESILIENCE.

ONE THING THAT WE HAVE LEARNED IN THIS COUNTRY PARTICULARLY THROUGH THE PANDEMIC IS THAT IF YOU ARE RELYING ON OTHERS TO MAKE STUFF FOR YOU, YOU ARE GOING TO END UP IN A VUL NERABL POSITION.

>> NOW, YOU HAVE A RANGE OF THINGS TO BE MADE IN AMERICA IF YOU PUT A TARIFF ON THINGS RANGING FROM SEMICONDUCTORS THAT YOU MENTIONED DOWN TO LOUISIANA AND MISSISSIPPI AND WHERE IT USED TO BE A LOT OF TEXTILES AND BLUE JEANS MADE, AND DO YOU THINK THAT IT SHOULD BE ACROSS THE BOARD OR CERTAIN THINGS THAT WE SHOULD PUT TARIFFS ON OR SPECIALIZE ON IN AMERICA?

>> WELL, THE NICE THING ABOUT A TARIFF ACROSS THE BOARD IS THAT IT DOES IN A SENSE LET THE MARKET DECIDE.

SO SAY WE PUT A 10% TARIFF ACROSS THE BOARD, AND ANYTHING THAT YOU CAN MAKE IN THE U.S. FOR WITHIN 10% OF THE COST OF MAKING IT ELSEWHERE IS SOMETHING THAT YOU WILL THINK ABOUT BRINGING BACK TO THE U.S. AND IF WE DO THAT, WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE SOMEBODY IN GOVERNMENT DECIDING, OH, THAT IS T-SHIRTS, AND OH, NO, THAT IS CHEMICALS OR, OH, NO, SEMNY CONDUCKS OR THE AND IT IS MORE CONSISTENT WITH A FREE MARKET TO SAY MAKING THINGS IN AMERICA MATTERS, AND WE WILL HAVE A THUMB ON THE SCALE OF WHAT IS MADE IN AMERICA, AND WHO IS MAKING THE INVESTMENTS, AND WHERE THE STUFF IS BUILT, IS BETTER LEFT UP TO THE MARKET, AND THEN WHEN IT COMES TO THING LIKE SEMICONDUCTORS AND IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT YOU FEEL THAT YOU WANT FOR DEFENSE OR OTHER SUPPORT, THEN YOU WILL HAVE THE CHIPS ACT WHICH IS SUPPORTING THESE CHIPS MADE IN THE UNITED STATES IS BECAUSE RIGHTLY, PEOPLE RECOGNIZE CHIPS ARE SPECIAL, BUT WE DON'T WANT TO PICK AND CHOOSE EVERY SPECIAL THING, AND WE WANT TO HAVE A BROAD POLICY TO THEN LET PEOPLE IN THE MARKET FIGURE OUT WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE TO BE BUILT HERE.

>> YOU TALKED ABOUT THE C.H.I.P.s ACT WHICH IS TO GET THE MANUFACTURING BACK, AND DO YOU THINK THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SHOULD KEEP THAT C.H.I.P.s ACT INTACT?

>> YES.

I HAVE BEEN VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF IT, AND IT WAS BIPARTISAN SUPPORT, AND IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE, AND I IT STARTED OUT AS A REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL IN DEFENSE OF THE NATIONAL DEFENSE ACT, AND SO FAR, THE INDICATIONS ARE THAT IT HAS BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL.

THE PLANTS ARE GETTING BUILT.

THEY ARE STARTING TO COME ONLINE AND PERFORM VERY WELL.

SO, I THINK THAT IT IS A PLACE WHERE WE ARE GETTING AN EXCELLENT RETURN ON INVESTMENT.

>> PRESIDENT TRUMP'S CAT CUTS FROM BEFORE ARE SET TO EXPIRE NEXT YEAR AND I CAN'T QUITE TELL FROM READING YOU, TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU ALSO SUBSCRIBE TO WHAT IS GENERALLY THE REPUBLICAN ORTHODOXY WHICH IS TO CUT TAXES, CUT TAXES, CUT TAXES.

>> WELL, I DON'T TYPICALLY SUBSCRIBE TO THE MARKET FUNDAMENTALIST VIEW THAT WE HAVE HAD IN THE PAST FEW DECADES IN THE RIGHT THAT YOU SHOULD ALWAYS JUST CUT TAXES MORE NO MATTER WHAT, AND THAT IS A RELATIVELY RECENT THING, AND RONALD REAGAN AFTER THE INITIAL TAX CUT LEFT THE GOVERNMENT WITH LESS REVENUE THAN HE EXPECT AND HE RAISED TAXES FIVE TIMES TO DEAL WITH THE DEFICIT.

BUT WE HAVE TO RAISE TAXES TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT THAT WE WANT TO HAVE, BUT WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN RECENT YEARS, THERE WAS A THEORY, WELL, YOU CUT THE TAXES AND THEY PAY FOR THEMSELVES OR YOU CUT TAXES, AND THIS IS GOING TO CREATE SO MUCH GROWTH WE ARE ALL BETTER OFF ANYWAY, AND IT HAS NOT COME TRUE.

>> WHEN YOU CREATED AMERICAN COMPASS, YOU SAID PART OF ITS GOAL WAS TO FIGURE OUT WHAT THE POST TRUMCH P RIGHT OF CENTER I GOING TO BE, AND WELL, WE ENDED UP NOT POST-TRUMP, BUT ANOTHER TRUMP, AND SO TO WHAT EXTENT IS HE A GOOD MESSENGER OR GOOD LEADER FOR THIS MOVEMENT, AND TO WHAT EXTENT DOES SOME OF WHAT YOU ARE PROPOSING CONFLICT WITH WHAT DONALD TRUMP BELIEVES?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT WE HAVE SEEN THAT TRUMP HAS DONE AN EXTRAORDINARY SERVICE TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY AND THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT AND AS A RESULT OF THE NATION, IN DISRUPTING AND REJECTING A LOT OF THE KIND OF OLD ORTHODOXY THAT WAS NOT SERVING ANYBODY WELL.

HE HAS BROUGHT A LOT OF NEW THINKING, A SNLD OF WHICH I AGREE WITH, AND SOME OF WHICH I DON'T ON A WHOLE RANGE OF ISSUE, AND IT HAS REALLY CREATED THE SPACE FOR CONSERVATIVES TO STOP JUST FLIPPING THROUGH THE 1980 PLAYBOOK AND IMAGINING THAT IT IS ALWAYS RONALD REAGAN'S FIRST TERM, AND INSTEAD SAYK IT IS THE 2020s, AND WE HAVE DIFFERENT SET OF PROBLEMS TODAY, AND WE HAVE TO APPLY CONSERVATIVE PRINCIPLES TO SOLVING THOSE PROBLEM, AND SO THERE ARE SOME PLACES WHERE HE IS EXACTLY ON THE RIGHT TRACK OF TARIFFS AND TRADE POLICY IS ONE OF THOSE AREAS, BUT THERE ARE OTHER AREAS WHERE I WOULD DISAGREE WITH HIM, BUT THE DIRECTION IS -- >> LIKE WHAT?

>> WELL, LABOR POLICY IS AN AREA WHERE, I TEND TO THINK THAT WE FOCUS MUCH MORE ON WORKER POWER AND ACTUALLY BE CONCERNED WITH WORKERS HAVING LEVERAGE TO NEGOTIATE AGAINST EMPLOYERS, AND I THINK THAT HIS VIEW TENDS TO BE MUCH MORE IN THE TRADITIONAL REPUBLICAN MODEL OR MOLD THAT SAYS, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO HAVE BUSINESSES TO HAVE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT, AND IF THEY DO WHAT IS BEST FOR PROFITS THEN THAT IS GOING TO END UP WORKING OUT FOR WORKERS AS WELL.

SO, THERE ARE LOTS OF PLACES WHERE I WOULD SAY THAT WE ARE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE TRANSITION, BUT IF I AM LOOKING AT THE DIRECTION THAT WE ARE GOING, AND THE CHOICE OF J.D.

VANCE AS HIS VICE PRESIDENT AND MARCO RUBIO AS HIS SECRETARY OF STATE, WE ARE CLEARLY GOING TO A DIRECTION OF MUCH HEALTHIER AND CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT IS GOING TO BE SERVING THE INTERESTS OF WORKERS AND FAMILIES AND I THINK THAT WHAT WE ARE SEEING IN THE ELECTION RESULTS FROM THIS YEAR IS THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE NOTICING THAT, TOO.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU HAVE PUSHED FOR, AND THIS ALIGNS WITH WHAT TRUMP WANTS EVEN MORE SO THAN YOU DO, WHICH IS STOPPING IMMIGRATION, AND HAVING eVERIFY, AND MASS DEPORTATIONS OF IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE HERE WITHOUT DOCUMENTATION ILLEGALLY, AND TO WHAT EXTENT IS THAT TO YOU A WAY TO HELP AMERICAN WORKERS, AND WOULDN'T THAT FUNDAMENTALLY GUT PARTS OF THE ECONOMY FROM AGRICULTURE TO CONSTRUCTION.

>> AND FIRST OF ALL TO BE CLEAR OF WHAT I WANT, I WANT TO FIRST OF ALL ENFORCE THE LAW, AND IN ANY TOPIC THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SIC LAW AND ORDER ENFORCEMENT IS THE FIRST THING, AND BASIC IMMIGRATION POLICY IS TO CONSIDER THE MARKET EFFECTS OF IMMIGRATION.

WHEN WE HAVE A LOT OF WORKERS IN AMERICA, AND AMERICAN CITIZENS AND PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE LEGALLY WHO ARE WORKING IN VERY LOW-WAGE JOBS AND STRUGGLING TO MAKE ENDS MEET, THE IDEA OF BRINGING IN MILLIONS MORE WORKERS TO COMPETE WITH THEM, I THINK IT IS ABSURD.

IT DOES AN EXTRAORDINARY DISSERVICE TO THEM, AND INSTEAD, WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IS TO MAKE A CLEAR COMMITMENT, AND THIS IS GOING BACK TO THE BASIC POINT ABOUT CAPITALISM THIS IN THE WAY TO BE SUCCESSFUL IN THE U.S., IF YOU ARE AN EMPLOYER AND IF YOU ARE A BUSINESS IS TO CREATE BUSINESSES THAT HAVE GOOD PRODUCTIVE JOBS THAT AMERICANS CAN AND WILL DO AND ALLOW THEM TO SUPPORT FAMILIES.

EVERY TIME BUSINESSES ARE FACING THAT CHALLENGE, THEY SET THEIR HAIR ON FIRE AND RUN AROUND SCREAMING LABOR SHORTAGE, LABOR SHORTAGE AND WE NEED MORE CHEAP LABOR INSTEAD, AND THE ANSWER HAS TO BE, NO, YOU DON'T GET MORE CHEAP LABOR, BUT YOU GET THE ENJOYMENT OF SOLVING THIS CHALLENGE, AND THAT IS TO MAKE YOUR WORKFORCE MORE PRODUCTIVE AND THAT IS THE SECRET SAUCE TO BRING PROSPERITY TO EVERYBODY, AND THAT IS THE DEMAND OF THE ECONOMY TO EASE THE PRESSURE WITHOUT MAKING A LOT OF MONEY TO DO THAT.

>> AND YOU WROTE A NOTE THAT IF MR. TRUMP BRINGS BUSINESS EXECUTIVES INTO THE GOVERNMENT TO CREATE BETTER CUSTOMER SERVICE, AND CREATE SPACE FOR MORE PRIVATE CUSTOMER INNOVATIONS, HE WILL EARN WELL DESERVED PRAISE.

IF HE UNLEASHES MORE AGENCIES, HE WILL HAVE MORE PEOPLE TO RELY AND ROLE-PLAY SCENES FROM AYN RAND NOVELS, EVEN HIS OWN PARTY WILL TURN AGAINST HIM.

AND THAT ROLE-PLAY SCENES FROM AYN RAND NOVELS EVOKES ELON MUSK.

>> WELL, WITH THE UNDERSTANDING OF THE SEGMENTS OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY STILL THAT WHAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT IS TO JUST SORT OF SLASH-AND-BURN GOVERNMENT AND GET RID OF ALL OF THE PROGRAMS, AND WHAT WE FIND WHENEVER WE DO RESEARCH ON WHAT AMERICANS ACTUALLY WANT IS THAT THEY ARE VERY FRUSTRATED WITH GOVERNMENT THAT DOESN'T WORK WELL, AND DOESN'T WORK EFFICIENTLY, BUT THERE IS ALMOST NOTHING THAT THEY WANT GOVERNMENT TO DO LESS OF.

WHEN YOU ARE ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH THE MAJOR THINGS THAT GOVERNMENT DOES, AND THE KIND OF SUPPORTS THAT GOVERNMENT PROVIDES, AND EVEN WHEN YOU ARE ASKING THE CONSERVATIVE REPUBLICANS AND EVEN TALKING ABOUT THINGS LIKE HELPING PEOPLE TO AFFORD HEALTH INSURANCE, THERE IS AN OVERWHELMING PREFERENCE TO SAY THAT THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD BE DOING THE SAME OR IN FACT DOING MORE.

NOW, OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS TO BE BALANCED AGAINST WHAT WE CAN AFFORD, AND THERE ARE SITUATIONS IF WE ARE GOING TO BE GETTING OUR BUDGET BACK IN CONTROL, WE HAVE TO GO TO FIND SOME WAYS TO REDUCE SPENDING, BUT THE IDEA THAT THERE ARE HUGE AREAS OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT PEOPLE ARE JUST HOPING THAT WE CAN GET RID OF, THAT IS A VERY NARROW UNPOPULAR APPROACH, AND I THINK THAT UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE A LOT OF LEADERS, AND SOME POLITICAL, BUT ESPECIALLY FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY WHO DON'T NECESSARILY UNDERSTAND THAT, AND SO I THINK THAT THERE IS TREMENDOUS OPPORTUNITY FOR GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY, AND THIS IS A WONDERFUL THING TO PURSUE.

AND IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO STAY FOCUSED ON THE IDEA THAT WHAT SUCCESSFUL, AND WHETHER YOU WANT TO CALL IT POPULISM OR GOOD CONSERVATIVE GOVERNMENT LOOKS LIKE, IT IS NOT GETTING RID OF GOVERNMENT, BUT IT IS TO MAKE IT WORK BETTER FOR PEOPLE.

>> ORRIEN CASS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> THIS IS WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU.