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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.
HERE IS WHAT'S COMING UP.
TOOK IN MY GOVERNMENT WILL KEEP TARIFFS ON UNTIL THE AMERICANS SHOW US RESPECT.
COMMIT U.S. MARKETS SINK AS TRUMPS TRADE WERE ESCALATED COULD A FULL-BLOWN RECESSION IN THE CARDS?
I ASKED FORMER VICE CHAIR OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE.
CHECK IN UKRAINE LAUNCHES A HUGE JOINT ATTACK AGAINST MOSCOW AS TALKS BEGIN AGAINST >> [ SPEAKING IN A GLOBAL LANGUAGE ] AND WASHINGTON.
TOOK IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SAYS THEY COMPLETED GUARDING AGAINST U.S. AID.
OVER THE IMPACT BE ON THE GROUND?
I SPOKE WITH TOP OFFICIAL, WINNIE BYANYIMA.
TOOK IN OVERTIME AFTER WE SETTLE IN HOW UNDERSTANDING OF HOW DEVASTATING COVID WAS -- >> WHITEHOUSE COORDINATOR, ASHISH JHA WILL TELL US WHAT WE LEARN FROM THE OUTBREAK AND PEOPLE ARE STILL SUFFERING FROM IT.
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>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, I AM YANA GOLDA GOETHE -- BIANNA GOLODRYGA.
TRICKY PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DOUBLING DOWN SAYING HE WILL RAISE TARIFFS ON ALL STEEL AND ALUMINUM FROM 25% TO 50%.
THREATENING TO SHUT DOWN THE CANADIAN AUTOMOBILE INDUSTRY.
THIS COMES AS U.S. MARKETS CONTINUE TO PLUNGE.
THIS WEEK THE DOW AND S&P 500 POSTED THEIR WORST DAY OF THE YEAR.
REPUBLICANS AND THE PRESIDENT WERE ELECTED PARTLY ON PROMISES OF LOWERING PRICES.
ARE CONSUMERS NOW GOING TO SEE THE OPPOSITE?
JOINING ME NOW ON THIS IS FORMER VICE CHAIR AT THE FED.
THANK YOU FOR TAKING THE TIME TO JOIN US.
THE WALL STREET JOURNAL HAD A HEADLINE A FEW HOURS AGO THAT READS, WASH STREET FEARS DONALD TRUMP WILL WRECK THE SOFT LANDING.
IS THAT A FEAR THAT YOU SHARE NOW WITH HIS POLICIES?
>> IT CERTAINLY IS A RISK.
IT WOULD NOT BE MY BASELINE CASE.
MY TAKE ON THIS FOR THE YEAR IS THAT WE NEED TO FIND OUT, MARCUS NEED TO FIND OUT IF TARIFFS ARE A BATTERING RAM OR A BARGAINING CHIP.
THAT WOULDN'T BE MY BASE CASE BUT THERE CERTAINLY IS THAT RISK.
>> HOW DO YOU MANAGE PROJECT THING WHAT THE FUTURE FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR LOOKS LIKE TO YOUR CLIENTS, TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, WITHOUT A DEFINED POLICY FROM THIS ADMINISTRATION?
THE WHIPLASH IS STUNNING.
IT IS COMING AT RECORD SPEED.
JUST DAYS AFTER YOU HAD A ADMINISTRATION OFFICIALS PUBLICLY ANNOUNCING POLICIES THAT WILL GO INTO EFFECT ON APRIL 2nd AS A RELATES TO THESE TARIFFS BETWEEN MEXICO AND CANADA, ONLY TO HAVE THE PRESIDENT UNDERMINED THEM WITH ONE POST ON SOCIAL MEDIA BY SAYING, IT WILL HAPPEN, IT WILL HAPPEN DOUBLE THE IMPACT AS OF TOMORROW?
>> YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.
ONE OF MY THEMES FOR THIS YEAR HAS BEEN THAT UNCERTAINTY, NOT JUST ABOUT TRADE POLICY, TAX POLICY, IMMIGRATION, GEOPOLITICS, COULD BE A HEADWIND TO THE ECONOMY THIS YEAR.
OBVIOUSLY THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT YOU MENTIONED ONLY ELEVATE THAT UNCERTAINTY.
WE SAW THIS IN 2019 DURING MY TIME WITH THE FED.
A LOT OF TRADE POLICY UNCERTAINTY SLOWED THE ECONOMY.
THERE IS THAT RISK, FOR SURE.
>> IN 2019, WE KNOW THAT THIS IS A PRESIDENT THAT HAS LONG BEEN A FAN OF TARIFFS, HE CALLS IT ONE OF THE BEST WORDS IN THE WORLD.
HE SAYS IT IS TIME TO MAKE AMERICA RICH AGAIN AND THE LAST TIME I CHECKED IT WAS THE RICHEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.
GOING BACK TO THE FIRST ADMINISTRATION, THE TARIFFS AT THE END OF THE DAY WERE ULTIMATELY TARGETED.
HE RENEGOTIATED NAFTA AND I THINK YOU HAVE A LOT OF ECONOMISTS AND BUSINESS LEADERS THAT SAY WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH YOU SPECIFICALLY GOING AFTER UNFAIR TRADE PRACTICES IN CHINA AND IMPOSING NEW TARIFFS ON CHINA, BUT GOING AFTER NEIGHBORS TO THE NORTH, TO MEXICO, TO THE EU, SEEMS TO HAVE NO END GAME IN SIGHT.
EXCEPT BY HURTING THE U.S.. IS THERE ANY OTHER ACCLAMATION YOU CAN THINK OF AS TO WHY THE PRESIDENT IS DOING THIS?
>> NOT REALLY.
THINK YOUR COMMENTS ARE CERTAINLY CORRECT.
TRADE NOW IS MUCH MORE TRADE IN TERMS OF CAPITAL GOODS AND IMMEDIATE INPUTS.
A TARIFF ON A LOT OF CANADIAN EXPERTS IS A TARIFF ON U.S. COMPANIES THAT MAKE CARS IN THE U.S.. THAT IS WHY THE WHOLE ISSUE WITH CANADA AND MEXICO WE HAVE A TRADE AGREEMENT THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NEGOTIATED AND ONE PRIORITY WOULD BE TO RENEGOTIATE THAT.
DO NOT DISPUTE THAT IF ALL THE MEASURES THAT HAVE BEEN ANNOUNCED YET IMPLEMENTED AND STAY IN PLACE, IT WILL CERTAINLY BE DISRUPTIVE TO THE U.S. ECONOMY.
>> THE PRESIDENT SEEMED TO RATTLE INVESTORS AND AMERICANS AS A WHOLE OVER THE WEEKEND WHEN HE SAID THAT HE CAN'T RULE OUT A RECESSION TO COME, IN AN INTERVIEW WITH FOXBUSINESS.
LET'S PLAY EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID.
>> Reporter: ARE YOU EXPECTING A RECESSION THIS YEAR?
>> I HATE TO PREDICT THINGS LIKE THAT.
THERE IS A PERIOD OF TRANSITION, BECAUSE WHAT WE ARE DOING IS VERY BIG.
WE ARE BRINGING WEALTH BACK TO AMERICA.
THAT IS A BIG THING.
THERE ARE ALWAYS PERIODS OF, IT TAKES A LITTLE TIME, IT TAKES A LITTLE TIME HAS COME AND HOW DO YOU INTERPRET WHEN HE SAYS A PERIOD OF TRANSITION??
I THINK IT IS OPEN TO A VARIETY OF MEANINGS.
I WAS SURPRISED THAT IT IS NOT TYPICAL TO HEAR PRESIDENTS IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON RECESSIONS OR FED CHAIRS, FOR THAT MATTER.
I DID TAKE ATTENTION.
THE TRANSITION ARGUMENT IS OKAY AS FAR AS IT GOES.
THERE IS A REGIME CHANGE AND THERE WILL BE TIME TO WORK OUT DETAILS.
WITHIN THAT DOMAIN IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.
WHEN YOU START TO GET INTO CONCERNS ABOUT RECESSION RISK, IS IF THE TRANSITION BECOMES THE STORY.
IF IT BECOMES FACTORS THAT ENTER IN TO HIRING AND INVESTMENT DECISIONS.
I THINK IT POTENTIALLY COULD BE MORE THAN JUST THE TRANSITION THAT HE REFERRED TO.
>> YOU MENTIONED FED CHAIR, WHICH LEADS TO MY NEXT QUESTION, J POWELL, HE WAS SPEAKING ON THE UNCERTAINTY OF THE MARKETS.
I FEEL THERE HAS BEEN SO MUCH IN THE LAST THREE DAYS, THE LAST DAY, ON-AGAIN AND OFF- AGAIN TARIFFS AND WHAT PERCENTAGE, BUT HERE IS WHAT HE SAID ON FRIDAY AS IT RELATES TO UNCERTAINTY.
>> DESPITE A RELATED UNCERTAINTIES, THE LABOR MARKET IS SOLID.
INFLATION HAS MOVED CLOSER TO 2% LONGER RUN GOAL.
AS WE PARSE THE INCOMING INFORMATION WE ARE FOCUSED ON SEPARATING THE SIGNAL FROM THE NOISE AS THE OUTLOOK EVOLVES.
WE DO NOT NEED TO BE IN A HURRY AND WE ARE WELL-POSITIONED TO WAIT FOR GREATER CLARITY.
LIKE I THINK HE WAS SPEAKING SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO RATES.
HOW DO YOU TRANSITION OR HOW DO YOU TRY TO SEPARATE THE NOISE FROM THE ACTUAL POLICY WHEN IT COMES AT SUCH A RAPID PACE?
HOW DO ECONOMISTS, BUSINESS OWNERS, LARGE AND SMALL, HOW DO AMERICAN CONSUMERS DIGEST THIS?
>> IT IS DIFFICULT.
I THINK A HIGH LEVEL OBSERVATION ON THIS YEAR, FOCUSING NOW ON MARKETS, MARKETS CAME INTO THE YEAR WITH A BASELINE VIEW AS I MENTIONED, THE TARIFF DISCUSSIONS WOULD BE DARKENING CHIP THAN A BATTERING RAM.
WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED IN THE LAST MONTH OR SO IS THAT IT IS NOT CLEAR TO ME RIGHT NOW WITH THE ENDGAME IS, AT LEAST FOR THE CALENDAR YEAR.
IS IT PROMISING TO BUILD MORE FACTORIES IN THE U.S.?
DOES IT INVOLVE SENTINEL CROSSING THE BORDER OR IMMIGRATION?
AT MINIMUM, HAVING AN UNDERSTANDING ABOUT WHAT THE DESTINATION IS AND WHAT THE ASK IS WILL BE IMPORTANT TO DO THIS.
WHEN YOU TALK TO INDIVIDUAL FIRMS AND BUSINESSES, WE ARE STARTING TO SEE THIS IN CONSUMER AND SMALL BUSINESS SINEMET SURVEYS.
WHEN PEOPLE GET NERVOUS ABOUT THE FUTURE THEY SCALE BACK.
IN PARTICULAR, THE LONGER THIS GOES ON, THE BIGGER THAT RISK ACCUMULATES.
>> LARRY SUMNERS WAS OUT SAYING THE RECESSION WILL BE A SELF- INFLICTED WOUND.
ECONOMISTS AT J.P. MORGAN INCREASE THE CHANCES OF RECESSION FROM 30% TO 40%.
THE CEO OF DELTA AIRLINES SAID DOMESTIC DEMANDS HAVE SOFT AND WITH A SIGNIFICANT SHIFT IN CONSUMER SPENDING.
THERE HAS BEEN A 50% DROP IN GOVERNMENT RELATED TRAVEL, AS WELL AS BUSINESS TRAVEL STALLING.
THE PRESIDENT IS MEETING WITH EXECUTIVES OF MAJOR CORPORATIONS TODAY.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT THAT THEY WILL TELL THE PRESIDENT?
>> YOU HAVE DONE GOOD REPORTING AND I THINK WHAT THE PRESIDENT WILL BE HEARING IS MORE OR LESS WHAT YOU JUST MENTIONED.
THEY KNOW THEIR BUSINESSES.
THEY WILL TALK ABOUT WHAT THEY KNOW.
I THINK THAT IS A MESSAGE THAT WILL BE CONVEYED.
>> TALK ABOUT THE LASTING IMPACT OF ALL OF THIS?
ASSUMING AT THE END OF THE DAY THERE WILL BE SOME RESOLUTION TO THIS TRADE WERE BACK AND FORTH IN TARIFFS IMPOSED BY ALLIES, NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES, COUNTRIES WHOSE BUSINESSES ARE VERY DEPENDENT ON EACH OTHER, INTERTWINED.
SPECIFICALLY THE AUTO INDUSTRY AS A RELATES TO CANADA.
AT SOME POINT THIS DOES IMPACT LONGER-TERM PLANNING FOR BUSINESSES.
IT DOES IMPACT HOW CONSUMERS PLAN OUT THEIR OWN FAMILY BUDGETS.
IS THAT IN OF ITSELF WHAT WOULD BRING OUT A RECESSION?
>> IT COULD.
MYSELF, I AM BEING RESPECTFUL, I'M NOT IN THE COIN FLIP CAMP YET.
IMPORT AND LEAVE THE U.S. ECONOMY CAME INTO THE YEAR IN A VERY GOOD POSITION, A VERY STRONG LABOR MARKET.
INFLATION ON THE WAY BACK, IF NOT ALL THE WAY BACK TO 2%.
A LOT OF OPTIMISM, THERE ARE IMPORTANT CHANGES WE CAN MAKE OVERTIME TO THE TAX CODE AND TO IMMIGRATION TO THE POSITIVE, TO THE EXTENT THE TARIFF OPEN MARKET FOR EXPERTS, BUT THAT'S NOT WHERE WE ARE UNLIKELY WHERE WE WILL NOT BE FOR SOME TIME.
AS I SAID EARLIER, HAVING A CLEAR SENSE OF THE ENDGAME AND WHAT THE ASK IS WITH REGARDS TO THESE POLICIES WILL BE AN IMPORTANT PART OF PREVENTING THE LONGER-TERM DEMONSTRATED I REMAIN CAUTIOUSLY OPTIMISTIC TO AVOID THAT OUTCOME.
CERTAINLY IT IS A RISK.
IN WHAT IMPACT WILL GOVERNMENT LAYOFFS HAVE UNEMPLOYMENT IN THE COUNTRY?
>> OVER TIME DEPENDING ON THE MAGNITUDE OF LAYOFFS, IT CERTAINLY WILL BEGIN TO SHOW UP IN THE DAY.
FEDERAL EMPLOYMENT IS A SMALL FRACTION OF THE LABOR MARKET.
IN THE CONTEXT OF A LABOR MARKET, THAT WAS ALREADY SLOWING LAST YEAR IF YOU LOOK AT PRIVATE EMPLOYMENT.
IN PARTICULAR OF THAT OF HEALTHCARE AND EDUCATION.
WE HAVE SEEN A SIGNIFICANT SLOWDOWN LAST YEAR.
IN PARTICULAR, IN THAT CONTEXT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO NOTE.
ON THE OTHER HAND SINCE IT LOOKS LIKE IMMIGRATION WILL BE RUNNING LOWER THAN IT WAS, THOSE GOVERNMENT WORKERS IF THEY LOSE THEIR JOBS WILL PROBABLY FIND GOOD OPPORTUNITIES ELSEWHERE.
OVERALL IT IS A STRONG LABOR MARKET.
>> KEVIN WAS OUT MELISSA LEE LAST WEEK SUGGESTING THAT HE BELIEVES WE WILL HAVE A POSITIVE FIRST QUARTER.
DO YOU AGREE?
>> FIRST QUARTER I THINK WILL COME IN MODESTLY POSITIVE.
ATLANTA SAID, A WIDELY FOLLOWED GDP TRACKER WAS NEGATIVE FOR A COUPLE WEEKS AND NOW REVISED UP IN POSITIVE TERRITORY.
GROWTH IN THE RANGE FROM 1 TO 1.5% IS PROBABLY WHAT WE ARE TRACKING RIGHT NOW.
>> RICHARD CLARIDA, THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.
I APPRECIATE IT.
>>> IT IS CRUNCH TIME IN SAUDI ARABIA.
U.S. AND UKRAINE TALKS TAKE PLACE.
TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CLEARLY SIGNALED THAT IT WANTS THE WAR WHICH RUSSIA BEGAN TO END AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.
PRESIDENT TRUMP IS PRESSURING UKRAINE TO MAKE CONCESSIONS.
PAUSING MILITARY AID AND INTELLIGENCE SHARING.
SOMETHING KYIV IS HOPING WILL RESTART IF TALKS ARE SUCCESSFUL.
IT COULD NOT BE A MORE CRUCIAL TIME ON THE BATTLEFIELD WITH THE LARGEST -FOR-TAT STRIKES SINCE THE WAR BEGAN.
RUSSIAN DEFENSE MINISTRY SAYS MOSCOW WAS HIT BY A MASSIVE DRONE ATTACK LAST NIGHT KILLING AT LEAST THREE PEOPLE AROUND THE RUSSIAN CAPITAL.
KYIV SAID RUSSIAN STRIKES HAVE INTENSIFIED, KILLING DOZENS OVER THE PAST WEEK.
JOIN ME NOW ON THIS IS AN EFFORT ON THE REGION.
PRESIDENT AND CEO FOR EUROPEAN POLICY.
GOOD TO SEE YOU.
I AM WONDERING THE RISK CALCULATION TAKEN BY UKRAINE GOING INTO THESE TALKS WHILE ALSO LAUNCHING A MASSIVE DRONE STRIKE AGAINST MOSCOW, KNOWING THE POSTURING OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
THE PRESIDENT PUBLICLY STATING THAT UKRAINE HAS A MORE DIFFICULT IN NEGOTIATIONS AND HE THINKS THEY WILL CONTINUE TO BE THAN RUSSIA HAS.
IT WAS SOMETHING OF A RISK FOR THESE DRONE STRIKES TO BE CONDUCTED AS MEETINGS WERE TO BEGIN.
WALK US THROUGH THE RATIONALE YOU THINK UKRAINE ULTIMATELY HAD IN DOING THAT?
IN WHAT WE HAVE SEEN FROM THE RUSSIAN SIDE SINCE THE ELECTION OF DONALD TRUMP, A HUGE ACCELERATION IN ATTACKS ON UKRAINE CIVILIANS INFRASTRUCTURE AND CIVILIANS MORE WRYLY.
THEY HAVE BECOME MORE DEADLY AND HEADING TERRITORIES IN UKRAINE THAT ARE FAR AWAY FROM THE LIVES IN THE EAST AND THE SOUTH.
UKRAINIANS HAVE SEEN THAT THE RUSSIANS HAVE IGNORED THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NEGOTIATIONS TAKEN PLACE FOR PEACE.
THEY HAVE DECIDED THAT THEY WOULD DO SOMETHING SIMILAR.
HIS ATTACKS ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE SIMPLY CANNOT GO UNANSWERED WHEN YOU CAN AND CIVILIANS ARE BEING MURDERED ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
NOT JUST IN TO THE SOUTHEAST.
THIS WAS A CALCULATED RISK TO BRING HOME TO THE RUSSIANS THAT UKRAINE WILL NOT BACK DOWN.
THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE SEEN IN A WEEK POSITION OF LOSING THE WAR.
A >> MAYBE I'M READING TOO MUCH INTO, THE FACT THAT UKRAINE IS SENDING A NOT-SO-SUBTLE MESSAGE THAT THE STRIKES WERE CONDUCTED WITH U.S.
PROVIDED EQUIPMENT AND MATERIAL.
UKRAINE HAS LARGELY BEEN PRETTY INDEPENDENT IN PROCURING THEIR OWN DRONES OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS.
ALSO RELYING ON NOT JUST THE U.S. FOR WEAPONRY.
>> THAT IS EXACTLY RIGHT.
THAT'S SUCH AN IMPORTANT POINT.
THERE HAS BEEN AN ASSUMPTION OUT THERE THAT WITHOUT U.S. SUPPORT, U.S. INTELLIGENCE, WHICH OF COURSE ARE CRITICAL AND WE HAVE SEEN WHAT THE GAPS, ESPECIALLY INTELLIGENCE SHARING, GROWING LOSSES FOR THE UKRAINIAN SIDE.
SPECIFICALLY WERE BATTLES ARE TAKING PLACE.
YES, UKRAINE HAS BEEN BUILDING MILLIONS OF DRONES.
THEY DEVELOPED THEIR OWN CAPABILITIES OVER TIME.
THE MOST SOPHISTICATED BATTLE TESTED AND CUTTING-EDGE CAPABILITIES THAT ARE OUT THERE.
THEY'RE SHOWING CLEARLY THAT EVEN WITHOUT U.S. SUPPORT, UKRAINE WILL KEEP ON FIGHTING.
ANY IDEA THAT THE PEACE TALKS ARE GOING TO BE A CAPITULATION OF SOME KIND, THAT WILL NOT BE ACCEPTABLE TO UKRAINE AND THEY WILL KEEP FIGHTING.
>> WHAT WAS ADJUST TO THE RELATIONS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND UKRAINE WHICH HAVE BEEN FRAYED OVER THE LAST FEW WEEKS TO BE BACK ON TRACK, IN TERMS OF THE OUTCOME OF THIS MEETING?
IS AT THE RESUMPTION OF INTELLIGENCE SHARING?
IS A FINALIZING A MINERAL STILL?
WHAT IS IT THAT WOULD GIVE YOU THAT ASSURANCE THAT PERHAPS THINGS HAVE BEEN SMOOTH OVER?
IN ALL OF THOSE THINGS YOU JUST MENTIONED.
WE DO WANT TO SEE THE U.S.
RESUMED MILITARY SUPPORT FOR UKRAINE.
INTELLIGENCE SHARING AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
IT'S HAVING REAL EFFECTS ON THE BATTLEFIELD.
BEYOND THAT, I WOULD WANT TO SEE AN EQUAL APPROACH BY THE U.S., THE VERY LEAST, UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.
WE HAVE SEEN MAXIMUM PRESSURE ON UKRAINE AND NOTHING IN TERMS OF WHAT WE ARE ASKING FROM THE RUSSIANS.
THE RUSSIANS ARE JUST SITTING BACK BUT NOT TAKING THE TALKS SERIOUSLY BETWEEN THE U.S. AND UKRAINE.
THEY THINK THE REAL DEAL WILL BE MADE BETWEEN PUTIN AND DONALD TRUMP AT THE TABLE , SIGNING OFF ON UKRAINIAN CAPITULATION.
THEY SEE A STRATEGIC OPPORTUNITY TO REALLY COMPLETE WHAT PUTIN SEES AS UNFINISHED BUSINESS OF THE COLLAPSE OF THE SOVIET UNION, TO REGAIN RUSSIAN GREATNESS AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE WITH THE U.S. PRESIDENT.
I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, THERE IS NO REALITY IN WHICH UKRAINE STOPS FIGHTING, NO MATTER WHAT THE DEAL IS.
FOR THE RELATIONS TO BE ON A BETTER PATH, WE WANT THE U.S. AND UKRAINE TO BE ALLIES AND PARTNERS AS WE HAVE SEEN FOR DECADES.
RUSSIA BE CALLED WHAT IT IS, AND ADVERSARY AND AN ENEMY TO THE U.S. AND ALLIES.
>> TO THE POINT OF A DONALD TRUMP/PUTIN MEETING, A PRELUDE WHAT IS BEING REPORTED IS STEVEN WITKOFF TRAVELING TO MOSCOW FOR A SECOND MEETING WITH PUTIN IN THE FIRST SIX WEEKS OF THIS AND ADMINISTRATION.
STEVE IS A CLOSE ADVISOR AND FRIEND AND CONFIDANT OF DONALD TRUMP.
TECHNICALLY THE MIDEAST ENVOY BUT HE HEAVILY HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THESE NEGOTIATIONS, AS WELL.
HOW MUCH SHOULD WE READ IN TO THESE TALKS IF THEY DO HAPPEN BETWEEN WYCOFF AND PUTIN?
HOW ARE UKRAINIANS DEALING WITH IT?
>> IS CERTAINLY IS AN ODD SITUATION THAT THE U.S. IS SENDING A KEY ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT TO GO TO MOSCOW TO GIVE A READOUT WITHOUT THE UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT OR ALLIES PRESENT.
THE CONVERSATIONS TAKING PLACE INSIDE SAUDI ARABIA -- THIS IS UNUSUAL.
TOO SOFT OF A WORD FOR IT.
IN A DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCE WE WOULD SEE OPPOSITE OF THAT.
WE WOULD SEE MUCH MORE EFFORT TO COORDINATE WITH UKRAINE AND EUROPEAN ALLIES WHAT THEY ASKS AND DEMANDS WILL BE FOR SOME CEASE-FIRE WITH THE RUSSIANS.
THEN WE WOULD SEE THE U.S.
POTENTIALLY TAKING THE LEAD IN INFORMING THE RUSSIANS THAT THESE ARE OUR DEMANDS.
THAT THESE ARE THINGS WE WANT TO SEE AT THE NEGOTIATING TABLE.
I THINK WE ARE SEEING THE REVERSAL OF THAT.
THE RUSSIAN VIEWS, THE RUSSIAN DEMANDS ARE BEING GIVEN FAR GREATER PRIORITY AND WE ARE SPENDING A HUGE AMOUNT OF EFFORT TO MAKE SURE THE RUSSIANS ARE ON BOARD WHEN THIS IS THE COUNTRY THAT HAS LAUNCHED THE WAR THREE YEARS AGO.
NOT, UKRAINE.
>> THESE TALKS BETWEEN THE U.S. AND UKRAINE ARE HAPPENING IN SAUDI ARABIA.
BEFORE I WOULD IMAGINE IN ANY OTHER ADMINISTRATION THEY WOULD HAPPEN IN WASHINGTON.
WE SAW THE DEBACLE THE LAST TIME THE PRESIDENTS THAT IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
OR IN KYIV.
THE FACT THAT THEY ARE HAPPENING IN A THIRD COUNTRY WHERE THE U.S. HAD A STANCE OF BEING UKRAINE'S TOP SUPPORTER AND ALLY, IS QUITE STUNNING AND SENDS A MESSAGE OF ITS OWN.
HOW IS THIS BEING VIEWED AMONG EUROPEAN COUNTRIES?
>> THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF ANXIETY AND PANIC IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW OVER HOW THE U.S. IS HANDLING THE PEACE TALKS WITH UKRAINE AND RUSSIA.
THE MAIN CONCERN IS THE CONVERSATIONS BY EUROPEAN SECURITY ARE TAKING PLACE WITHOUT EUROPEANS AT THE TABLE.
EUROPE HAS NOT BEEN AT THE TABLE FOR ANY BILATERAL CONVERSATIONS THE U.S. IS DRIVING FORWARD.
THE OTHER BIG CONCERN THAT THE STOPPING OF INTELLIGENCE SHARING RAISED PANIC AMONG EUROPEAN ALLIES WHO BOSSA MANY AMERICAN WEAPON SYSTEMS THAT ARE RELIANT ON U.S.
INTELLIGENT SHARING TO BE OPERABLE.
THEY'RE ASKING THEMSELVES, WE HAVE BOUGHT ALL OF THE SYSTEMS FROM THE U.S. WE ARE SPENDING ALL THE MONEY IN THE U.S. WITH HER, TIME WITH U.S. GOVERNMENT SAYS WE WILL SHUT THAT DOWN AND THE MULTIBILLION-DOLLAR SYSTEMS YOU HAVE ARE GOING TO BE OBSOLETE?
IS THIS THE REALITY WE ARE LIVING IN NOW, WHERE THE U.S. IS GOING TO BE UNRELIABLE ALLY TO EUROPE?
THIS IS TAKING PLACE IN PARIS WHERE WE HAVE A MEETING OF DEFENSE MINISTERS GATHERING AS WE SPEAK?
>> HOW SERIOUS IS THIS IDEA OF SENDING EUROPEAN PEACEKEEPERS AS WHATEVER CEASE-FIRE PLAN IS ULTIMATELY AGREED-UPON TO UKRAINE PHYSICALLY?
TO PATROL THE BORDERS THERE WITHOUT A U.S. BACKSTOP?
>> IT'S OBVIOUS THAT IS THERE IS A NEGOTIATED CEASE-FIRE THERE IS A LINE OF CONTACT ARE THE ONLY WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT IS KEPT BY THE RUSSIANS IS TO HAVE AN INTERNATIONAL FORCE TO SECURE THE LINE.
WE STILL HAVE 30,000 TROOPS TO SECURE THE LINE BETWEEN NORTH KOREA AND SOUTH KOREA.
I WOULD SAY THAT IS THE MAIN REASON WE HAVE NOT SEAT HOSTILITIES ON THE KOREAN PENINSULA.
CLEARLY THIS IS THE RIGHT WAY FORWARD.
THESE ARE SERIOUS CONVERSATIONS.
EUROPE NEEDS A FORCE TOGETHER, THAT IS WITHOUT QUESTION.
THE PROBLEM IS THAT EUROPE CANNOT HAVE AN ARMY OVERNIGHT.
WE NOTE THE EUROPEANS HAVE INVESTED FOR DECADES FROM THEIR CAPABILITIES AND THAT WAS A MISTAKE.
NO QUESTION.
THE EUROPEANS NEED THE U.S. TO BACK THEM UP.
WE KNOW A POLISH OR FRENCH SOLDIER BEING KILLED WILL NOT BE A REAL TRIPWIRE FOR A MATTER -- UNLESS THERE IS THE FORCE OF U.S. MILITARY BEHIND IT.
THIS IS WHY THE EUROPEANS ARE WILLING TO PUT IN THE FORCES NOW AND THEY ARE GETTING IT TOGETHER.
THAT IS A HUGE POSITIVE.
THEY ARE VERY ANXIOUS THAT WITHOUT U.S.
THERE IN SOME CAPACITY, DOESN'T HAVE TO BE BOOTS ON THE GROUND, THAT THESE FORCES WILL NOT ACTUALLY SERVE THE DETERRENT AND OFFENSE AND PEACEKEEPING FUNCTIONS THEY ARE DESIGNED TO DO PARIS CORRECT WHAT IMPACT FROM ALL OF THIS CERTAINTY FROM THE U.S. HAVING A NUCLEAR PROLIFERATION FROM OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES?
WE KNOW THAT FRANCE AND ENGLAND ARE THE ONLY NUCLEAR POWERS IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW.
THE FACT THAT IT IS BEING DISCUSSED IN SOME COUNTRIES IS PRETTY TELLING.
>> ESPECIALLY IN GERMANY.
THIS CONVERSATION AROUND NUCLEAR DETERRENCE HAS TAKEN PLACE IN GERMANY, WHICH IS A COUNTRY WHICH HAS BEEN COMPLETELY ANTITHETICAL TO ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH NUCLEAR.
NUCLEAR ENERGY, FORGET NUCLEAR DEFENSE.
WE'RE SEEING A CHANGE TAKE PLACE ACROSS EUROPE NOW.
I THINK THIS ISSUE IS SO PROFOUND BECAUSE THE REASON WE HAVE HAD PEACE AND SECURITY IN EUROPE AND THE REASON WE HAVE NOT HAD THE PRIVILEGE AND OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS ACROSS EUROPEAN COUNTRIES AND BEYOND, IN A MASSIVE WAY, IS BECAUSE THE U.S. SECURITY UMBRELLA AND THE NUCLEAR UMBRELLA.
IF THAT IS SEEN AS UNRELIABLE THERE ARE GAPS IN IT THAT ADVERSARY SEEN THEMSELVES EXPLODING.
WE ARE FACING ROAD WHICH EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WILL TAKE THE MESSAGE THAT THE U.S. IS NOT A RELIABLE SECURITY PARTNER AND THEY WILL SIGNIFICANT RESOURCE TO DEVELOP THEIR OWN NUCLEAR CAPABILITIES.
>> ALINA POLYAKOV, THANK YOU.
>>> RODRIGO DETERT TATE IS THE AND TAKEN BY AIRPLANE TO HAGUE AFTER POLICE ARRESTED HIM ON A WARRANT FROM THE INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT.
CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY RELATED TO KILLINGS THAT WERE CARRIED OUT DURING A BRUTAL CRACKDOWN ON DRUGS FOR THE PLEASE SAY SOME 6000 PEOPLE WERE KILLED WHILE INDEPENDENT MONITORS SAY THE REAL NUMBER IS IN THE TENS OF THOUSANDS.
TWO-TIER TAE SAYS HIS DETENTION IS LEGAL.
ALYSSA SPOKE TO CHRIS JANS IN 2019 DURING THE HYPE OF HIS PRESIDENCY.
>> THE FIRST THING WAS THE SOCIAL MEDIA ATTACKS.
MAYOR DUTERTE TO USED SOCIAL MEDIA TO GET ELECTED.
IN THE BEGINNING I WAS CLAPPING BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DID THAT.
THE WEAPONIZATION OF SOCIAL MEDIA HABIT AFTER HE BECAME PRESIDENT.
THEY WENT AFTER JOURNALISTS, THIS IS A NEW WEAPON AGAINST JOURNALISTS, THEY ALSO WENT AFTER ANYONE WHO QUESTIONED THE DRUG WAR.
AFTER THAT, THEY SYSTEMATICALLY ATTACKED TRADITIONAL JOURNALISTS.
WE WERE NOT FIRST IN LINE WE WERE THIRD.
THE LARGEST NEWSPAPER, TELEVISION STATION, WE WERE THIRD IN LINE.
WE JUST PUSHED BACK -- >> WE WANTED TO BE CLEAR THAT THE GOVERNMENT WAS FUDGING NUMBERS.
TODAY THE GOVERNMENT WILL ADMIT TO KILLING ALMOST 6000 PEOPLE.
THAT NUMBER ALONE IS INSANE.
IF YOU COMPARE TO WHAT THE PHILIPPINE COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS AND THE UN SAYS, IT IS MORE THAN 27,000 PEOPLE KILLED.
THAT IS GENOCIDE.
WE DID THAT.
WE WENT AFTER THE IMPUNITY THAT WAS HAPPENING.
PEOPLE GETTING KILLED WITHOUT ANY DUE PROCESS.
WE THEN STARTED LOOKING AT THE DISINFORMATION NETWORKS.
THE PROPAGANDA WAR.
IN AS MANY AS 30,000 MAY HAVE BEEN KILLED OVER THE YEARS.
IN WASHINGTON'S GUTTING OF U.S. AID IS NOW COMPLETE.
MICHAEL RUBIO SAYS 83% OF HIS PROGRAMS HAVE NOW BEEN ELIMINATED.
RUBIO HELD THE CUTS AS AN OVERDUE AND HISTORIC REFORM.
PEOPLE ON THE GROUND ARGUE OTHERWISE.
WARNING THAT THE EXTRAORDINARY CHAOTIC AND RAPID PROCESS HAS LED TO CONFUSION AND WILL PUT LIVES AT RISK.
THE STILL IS LITTLE CLARITY ABOUT WHAT SURVIVED THE CUTS.
THE UN IS WARNING THAT ONE AREA AFFECTED IS HIV RESPONSE ACROSS THE WORLD.
THE MILLIONS OF UGANDA AND ACROSS AFRICA, U.S. 80 IS A LIFELINE FOR PEOPLE WHO RELY ON DRUGS THAT KEEP THEM ALIVE.
WE HAVE THIS REPORT FROM KAMPALA, UGANDA.
>> Reporter: 36-YEAR-OLD HAS BEEN LIVING WITH HIV SINCE 2014.
GETTING HIS LIFE-SAVING DRUGS FROM U.S. AID PROJECT.
HIS SUPPLIES ARE ALMOST OUT.
>> I FEEL LIKE THE WORLD IS ENDING TOMORROW BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW WHERE I WILL GO.
I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL BE ALIVE OR DEAD.
>> Reporter: HE HANDS OUT CONDOS IN HIS COMMUNITY TO STOP INFECTIONS AND MAKE SURE THE INFECTED KEEP MAKING -- TAKING MEDICATIONS.
MEANWHILE, THIS FUNDED FACILITY IN KAMPALA WAIT HOPING THE TREATMENTS ARE STILL AVAILABLE.
NEARLY 1000 EMPLOYEES HERE HAVE BEEN FIRED AFTER THE U.S.
STOPPED WORK ORDER SAID IT IS STILL WORKING NOW BUT NOBODY KNOWS FOR HOW MUCH LONGER.
ITS LEADER, DR. ANDREW KAMBUGU IS AN ALUM WHO IS GRATEFUL FOR THE AMERICAN GENEROSITY BUT WORRIED ABOUT THE FUTURE FOR HIS STAFF AND HIS PATIENTS RISK?
WE ARE IN THE THROES OF THE EBOLA OUTBREAK AND BEFORE THAT WE HAD ANOTHER OUTBREAK.
THE FIND YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WITH A NUMBER OF INFECTIOUS DISEASES.
>> Reporter: THERE WILL BE MILLIONS STUCK WITHOUT IT.
BULIMIC THESE ARE THANK YOU NOTES FROM PATIENTS TO THE MILLIONS OF YOU SAID.
THEY COVER HIV, AND PARKS, AND -- U.S. FUNDING KEEPS PATIENTS LIKE THIS ALIVE.
THE U.S. IS ONE OF UGANDA'S LARGEST DONORS.
SPENDING MORE THAN HALF $1 BILLION IN HEALTHCARE ALONE EVERY YEAR.
MORE THAN A THIRD OF U.S. AID FUNDS CAME TO AFRICA IN 2023.
THOSE DOLLARS SAVED LIVES AND SUPPORTED MANY AMERICANS.
IN WITHOUT THIS FUNDING PEOPLE DIE.
WITHOUT GLOBAL COOPERATION, PEOPLE DIE.
>> Reporter: SHE RUNS THE UN'S GLOBAL RESPONSE TO THE AIDS EPIDEMIC.
AMERICANS WILL LOSE OUT.
>> SOMETIMES WE HAVE THE DISEASES, THEY HAVE THE PROFITS.
THEY MAKE MONEY.
AIDS SENDS IT TO MARKETS AND MARKETS BENEFIT AMERICAN COMPANIES AND AMERICAN JOBS ARE CREATED.
IN SUCH AS CHARITY TO AFRICAN COUNTRIES?
>> IT IS MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL.
IN THE NEGATIVE SENTIMENT IS NOT SHARED BY ALL OF AFRICA'S LEADERS.
IN AN INTERVIEW WITH CNN, RWANDA'S PRESIDENTS OF THE CONTINENT NEEDS TO WEAN ITSELF OFF OF AID.
>> TRUMP'S CONVENTION IN RULE -- BULIMIC IT WILL HURT YOU, WE FUND YOUR HEALTHCARE AND DEVELOPMENT?
SELF-SUFFICIENT COUNTRIES, IT BRINGS LITTLE COMFORT TO THE MILLIONS ACROSS THE WORLD WHOSE VERY SURVIVAL HANGS IN THE BALANCE.
>>> I WANT TO TURN NOW TO WINNIE BYANYIMA, THE AIDS DIRECTOR.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
I WANT TO BEGIN BY ASKING YOU ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THESE CUTS, SPECIFICALLY AS IT RELATES TO FUNDING FOR AIDS RESEARCH AND TREATMENT IN AFRICA -- >> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
IT HAS BEEN DEVASTATING.
WHEN IT WAS DECLARED IT WAS VERY SUDDEN.
THERE ARE 55 COUNTRIES.
THE PRESIDENT EMERGENCY PLAN FOR AIDS RELIEF WAS STARTED BY REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT, GEORGE BUSH IN 2003.
FOR 20 YEARS IT HAS BEEN SUPPORTING PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV WITH ALL SERVICES.
TREATMENT, PREVENTION, TESTING, ALL OF THAT.
WE THANK THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT FOR THE WAIVER THAT CAME A WEEK LATER TO RESTORE LIFE-SAVING SERVICES.
I HAVE TO SAY THAT EVERYTHING HAS NOT COME BACK.
AS I TALK NOW, MANY OF THOSE COUNTRIES, CLINICS ARE CLOSED.
PEOPLE ARE NOT RECEIVING TREATMENT.
THEY'RE NOT GETTING TESTED OR RECEIVING PREVENTION.
FRONTLINE HEALTH WORKERS HAVE BEEN TERMINATED.
AN EXAMPLE, THE COUNTRY WITH THE THIRD-HIGHEST BURDEN OF HIV.
20,000 HEALTHCARE WORKERS GOT STOP WORK ORDERS.
MORE THAN 1000 DOCTORS WERE LAID OFF.
THE IMPACT IS STILL HUGE AND PREVENTION IS SUFFERING EVEN MORE THAN TREATMENT BECAUSE THIS IS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO ARE CRIMINALIZED.
>> ONE STUDY FOUND THAT HALF 1 MILLION PEOPLE COULD DIE IN SOUTH AFRICA OVER THE NEXT DECADE AS A RESULT OF THESE CUTS.
YOU MAY ASK YOU ABOUT UGANDA, THE COUNTRY HAS BEEN KNOWN TO HAVE THE HARSHEST LGBTQ LAWS IN THE WORLD.
ARE THERE PARTICULAR COUNTIES IN THIS COUNTRY TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT TO LOCALS THERE IS A RELATES TO AIDS TREATMENT AND FUNDING?
>> THE PEOPLE WHO -- FIRST OF ALL THERE ARE 40 MILLION PEOPLE LIVING WITH HIV.
31 OF THEM -- MILLION, IN THE WORLD ARE ON TREATMENT.
9 MILLION ARE NOT ON TREATMENT.
MANY OF THESE PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT AFRAID TO COME FORWARD TO SERVICES.
IT CAN BE MEN, WORKERS, IT CAN EVEN BE GIRLS WHO ARE HAVING BUT ARE AFRAID OF BEING KNOWN.
IT IS THESE GROUPS WHO ARE NOW SUFFERING THE MOST BECAUSE THE FATHER -- WORKED WITH US AND OTHERS TO MEET SERVICES FOR THOSE WHO ARE AFRAID TO COME TO MAINSTREAM.
THESE ARE THE ONES BEING CUT.
IN UGANDA WE HAD 84 CENTERS.
THESE ARE CENTERS WHERE THOSE WERE NOT AFRAID -- WERE AFRAID OF THE LAW OR STIGMA COULD GO.
THOSE WERE THE FIRST TO CLOSE FOR NOW THERE ARE ATTEMPTS TO REOPEN BUT PEOPLE ARE AFRAID TO COME FORWARD AND NOT ALL SERVICES ARE BACK.
THERE IS OPPORTUNITY.
A REAL OPPORTUNITY TO WORK TO END THIS DISEASE IN THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
WHY?
AN AMERICAN COMPANY CALLED GILEAD HAS FOUND AND DEVELOPED A MAGICAL PREVENTION TREATMENT.
AN INJECTION GIVEN TWICE A YEAR.
IT CAN HELP US CUT INFECTIONS DOWN TO ZERO.
I HAVE A DEAL -- I KNOW YOU PRESIDENT LIKES DEALS.
I HAVE A DEAL FOR HIM TO GET ALL COUNTRIES TO ROLLOUT PREVENTION DOWN TO ZERO, WE WILL END THIS DISEASE.
IT WILL BE ANOTHER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT ENDING A DISEASE AFTER YEARS OF STRUGGLE.
>> WE HOPE THE MESSAGE IS DELIVERED TO THE WHITE HOUSE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME AND WORK.
YOU MIGHT AS PRESIDENT TRUMP'S REFORMS THREATENED TO DISMANTLE THE WORLD OF HEALTH, MY NEXT GUEST IS TAKING A LOOK BACK TO DISCOVER HOW YOU GOT A RED FIVE YEARS AGO TODAY COVID WAS DECLARED A PANDEMIC AND THE WORLD CHANGED FOREVER.
SINCE THEN THERE HAVE BEEN OVER 700 MILLION CASES AND 7 MILLION DEATHS WORLDWIDE.
AS A COVID COORDINATOR UNDER PRESIDENT BIDEN, ASHISH JHA HELPED LEAD THE RESPONSE.
NOW HE'S JOINING TO REFLECT HOW THE PANDEMIC TRANSFORM SOCIETY AND HOW IT CONTINUES TO IMPACT US TODAY.
IN THANKS FOR JOINING US.
>> WE ARE FIVE YEARS OUT FROM THE BEGINNING OF COVID.
THERE IS STILL LONG COVID.
3 TO 5 MILLION AMERICANS ARE DESCRIBING SYMPTOMS CONSISTENT WITH THAT.
TO SET THE TABLE FOR OUR AUDIENCE, DESCRIBE WHAT THIS AUDIENCE IS?
>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME BACK.
LONG COVID IS BASICALLY POST VIRAL SYNDROME THAT WE HAVE SEEN WITH OTHER DISEASES.
IT PROBABLY IS NOT ONE CONDITION, IT PROBABLY IS THREE OR FOUR POTENTIAL CONDITIONS.
FOR SOME PEOPLE THEY HAD A BAD BOUT OF COVID WITH ONGOING SYMPTOMS .
FOR OTHERS THE INFECTION MIGHT NOT OF BEEN SEVERE BUT IT TRICKLED IN THE MINE -- AUTOIMMUNE ISSUE.
THERE ARE PEOPLE'S WHO HAVE CHRONIC INFECTIONS.
IT'S A MIX OF ALL THREE.
ALL THREE GROUPS OF PEOPLE ARE CONTINUING TO SUFFER WEEKS OR MONTHS AFTER INITIAL INFECTION.
>> FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SAY MY LIFE IS NOT BEEN THE SAME BUT I CANNOT PUT MY FINGER ON IT -- WHEN THEY GO TO THEIR PRIMARY PHYSICIAN, IT'S NOT LIKE THERE IS SOME SORT OF TEST TO SAY THEY HAVE LONG COVID?
>> THAT IS RIGHT.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE A -- CONCERNS DISMISSED OR MINIMIZED.
MY BEST GUESS IS 3 TO 5 MILLION AMERICANS CONTINUE TO SUFFER.
THERE IS NOT A SINGLE TEST AND THAT'S WHY WE NEED MORE RESEARCH.
BOTH TO FIND THE DISEASE AND TO ULTIMATELY TO FIND WAYS OF TREATING PEOPLE SO THEY CAN GET BETTER.
THERE HAVE BEEN A FEW TREATMENTS TRIED.
ANTIVIRALS FOR LONG PERIODS OF TIME SEEM TO BE HELPFUL FOR A SUBSET OF PEOPLE.
THAT MIGHT BE THE GROUP THAT HAS A CHRONIC INFECTION.
UNTIL WE CLEARLY DEFINE WHAT THE SET OF ELEMENTS ARE, IT WILL BE HIRED TO FIND ONE TREATMENT THAT WILL WORK FOR EVERYONE.
WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW, NIH NEEDS TO FUND STUDIES THAT DEFINE THE POPULATIONS BETTER.
WITH EACH POPULATION WE NEED TO TRY NEW TYPES OF TREATMENTS.
NEW MODULATION FOR PEOPLE WITH AUTOIMMUNE DISEASE, ANTIVIRAL DRUGS, THAT RESEARCH REALLY NEEDS TO CONTINUE BUT UNFORTUNATELY THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE INTEREST WITH THE CONGRESS OR ADMINISTRATION OF FUNDING THAT.
>> AS WE HEAD INTO THE MINISTRATIONS PARTIES THEY WANT TO CUT THE COSTS OVER THEY CAN.
RESEARCH FUNDING IS ON THE CHOPPING BLOCK AS SEVERAL AGENCIES.
DO YOU THINK NIH WILL CARRY OUT THE TYPE OF RESEARCH THAT MAY AFFECT AND EVENTUALLY HELP THESE AMERICANS?
WE STARTED SOME OF THAT WORK AT THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE.
MY SENSE IS THAT IT LARGELY HAS COME TO A HALT.
NOT HEARING A LOT OF INTEREST IN THIS ADMINISTRATION CONTINUING THAT WORK.
ESPECIALLY WHERE CONGRESS IS, I'M WORRIED THERE WILL NOT BE A CONTINUATION OF SUPPORT FOR RESEARCH TO HELP AMERICANS GET BETTER.
>> I THINK PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THERE ARE LINGERING PHYSICAL EFFECTS.
THERE WAS A 2023 STUDY FROM NIH THAT FOUND AN INTERESTING CORRELATION BETWEEN THE MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS, ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, PTSD -- HOW COULD THAT HAPPEN?
>> THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
UNFORTUNATELY HE GETS MISUSED BY COVID MINIMIZES.
WHO SAY, HERE IS EVIDENCE THAT IT IS MENTAL ILLNESS OR IN PEOPLE'S HEADS.
THE ACTUAL ISSUE, WHEN YOU DEVELOP AN ACUTE ILLNESS AND ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU DO NOT GET BETTER.
SIX MONTHS, A YEAR, TWO YEARS, CAN BE INCREDIBLY DEBILITATING.
PHYSICAL EFFECTS WITH MENTAL HEALTH EFFECTS.
YOU MIGHT HAVE AMBITIOUS PLANS AS AN ATHLETE OR HAD A VISION OF WHAT YOU COULD DO AND WHEN THAT IS DISRUPTED, IT CAN CAUSE ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, OTHER SYMPTOMS.
THAT DOES NOT MEAN THAT COVID IS IN YOUR HEAD OR LONG COVID IS A MENTAL HEALTH ISSUE.
THE MENTAL HEALTH ISSUES ARE OFTEN A BYPRODUCT OF PEOPLE NOT RECOVERING.
IN WHO REGIONAL DIRECTOR IN EUROPE SAID THIS PAST OCTOBER THAT WE SEEM TO HAVE COLLECTIVE AMNESIA ABOUT COVID.
DO YOU AGREE?
>> I DO.
WHEN I WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE I CALLED A BUNCH OF HISTORIANS TO ASK ABOUT HOW PANDEMICS COME TO AN END, WHAT DOES HISTORY TELL US?
ONE THING EVERYONE BROUGHT UP IS ELECTIVE AMNESIA THAT FOLLOWS EVERY TEACHER PANDEMIC THROUGHOUT HISTORY.
IT IS A TRAUMA REACTION.
IT IS A TRAUMATIC EVENT FOR SOCIETY TO GO THROUGH A PANDEMIC.
FOR SOME PERIODS OF TIME THERE IS COLLECTIVE AMNESIA AND AN ATTEMPT TO REWRITE HISTORY AND SAY IT WAS NOT THAT BAD.
BABY WE EXAGGERATED AND OVER DID IT?
OVER TIME I HOPE WE WILL SETTLE IN TO UNDERSTANDING HOW DEVASTATING COVID WAS AND HOW WE CAN LEARN LESSONS TO DO BETTER IN THE FUTURE.
>> I WONDER IF HISTORIANS TOLD YOU THAT AFTER THE PANDEMICS THERE WAS A REACTION USED AS A POLITICAL FOOTBALL?
IT SEEMS TO BE THAT WAY NOW.
>> IT DOES.
HISTORY WE HAVE SEEN THAT HAPPEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.
IT ALSO HAS BEEN AN IMPETUS FOR A LOT OF GOOD ACTION.
A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK MOVEMENT FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH SYSTEMS, THE FOUNDING OF NIH, THE 1920s UNTIL THE 1980 FLU PANDEMIC, YOU GO BACK TO PRIOR TIMES THERE ARE LARGE POLITICAL CONSEQUENCES THAT COME OUT OF PANDEMICS AND HOW THEY WERE RESPONDED TO.
IN SOME WAYS THIS IS TO BE EXPECTED.
YOU HOPE TO LEARN LESSONS OF HISTORY AND DO BETTER BUT WE OFTEN FIND OURSELVES TRAPPED BY THE SAME PROBLEMS THAT OUR ANCESTORS HAVE SEEN.
>> YOU SERVED IN THE BIDEN WHITE HOUSE, SO YOU HAVE SOME INSIGHT INTO THIS.
ARE YOU SURPRISED THAT WE ARE HERE FIVE YEARS NOW AND WE HAVE NOT USED THIS PANDEMIC AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THOSE KINDS OF INVESTMENTS THAT WE MIGHT'VE MADE 100 YEARS AGO, AFTER THE FLU PANDEMIC?
>> I WORRY THAT THERE IS BACKSLIDING.
IN THE FIRST YEARS OF THE PANDEMIC THERE WERE INVESTMENTS WHEN I WAS AT THE WHITE HOUSE.
I SPENT A LOT OF TIME TO BRING COVID TO THE END AND HOW TO BE BETTER IN THE FUTURE.
I'VE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE IN THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, I AM WORRIED ABOUT THE SLIDING BACK ON PREPAREDNESS.
NOT MAKING THE KIND OF INVESTMENTS THAT ENSURE THAT IN THE FUTURE WHEN WE HIT ANOTHER BIOLOGICAL ATTACK, WE ARE MUCH BETTER PREPARED.
I'M WORRIED THAT WE ARE NOT DOING THAT NOW.
>> WERE THERE EPISODES IN THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IN THE RESPONSE TO THE PANDEMIC WITH THE DECISIONS WERE POLITICIZED?
THERE WAS PERHAPS A MEDICAL PRESCRIPTION THAT YOU WOULD'VE HAD AND OTHER FACTORS THAT ALSO WAIT IN ON WHAT TO SHARE WITH THE PUBLIC AND WHEN?
WHAT STEPS WE SHOULD COLLECTIVELY TAKE AND WHERE TO MAKE INVESTMENTS?
>> I CAN TALK ABOUT THE TIME I WAS THERE WHICH WAS NOT DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION -- THE PUBLIC ANSWER WAS CLEAR WHAT TO DO AND WE DID IT AND TALKED ABOUT IT OPENLY.
VACCINES, PROMOTING TREATMENTS, TESTING FOR PEOPLE INFECTED, THOSE ARE THE RIGHT PUBLIC HEALTH INTEREST YOU SAW THE ADMINISTRATION LEAN HEAVILY ON THAT.
THERE WERE A LOT OF OTHER ISSUES -- I SAY POLITICAL IS NOT A DIRTY WORD BUT POLITICS IS HOW YOU NEGOTIATE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.
THE LABOR GROUPS HAD A DIFFERENT VIEW THAN THE BUSINESS GROUPS WHO MIGHT'VE HAD A DIFFERENT VIEW THAN CDC.
THERE WAS ALWAYS THAT KIND OF CONVERSATION.
MY JOB WAS THE COVID RESPONSE COORDINATOR.
TO COORDINATE ALL THE DIFFERENT VIEWS TO TRY TO COME TO AN ANSWER IN A WAY THAT THE DIFFERENT STAKEHOLDERS COULD FEEL GOOD ABOUT.
WHO DIDN'T ALWAYS GET IT RIGHT.
THE PUBLIC HEALTH MESSAGE WAS CLEAR, WE LEANED IN.
WHEN THERE WAS MORE UNCERTAINTY, YOU HAD TO LET EVERYBODY WEIGH IN WITH WHAT THEIR VIEWS WERE AND TRY TO COME TO AN ANSWER.
THAT WAS OPTIMAL FOR THE AMERICANS.
MIKE I ASKED THAT BECAUSE THERE SEEMS TO BE AN INTEREST IN THIS CONGRESS TO RELITIGATE SOME OF WHAT HAPPENED AFTER THE PANDEMIC.
HOW THE DECISIONS WERE TAKEN.
ARE YOU CONCERNED HAVING HAD THAT JOB THAT YOU WILL HAVE TO TESTIFY IN FRONT OF CONGRESS?
AM I GONNA CONCERNED ABOUT ME.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT A REWRITING OF WHAT HAPPENED.
I THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION GOT EVERYTHING RIGHT?
THEY DID NOT.
EVEN WHEN I WAS THERE, I DON'T THINK I DID.
THERE IS PLENTY TO LOOK AT TO SAY HOW WE DO BETTER OVERALL?
I THINK ABOUT MISTAKES OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, SOMEWHERE BEFORE BIDEN.
THE WAY SCHOOLS WERE HANDLED, BROAD CONSENSUS THAT SCHOOLS WORK CLOSE FOR TOO LONG.
THEY SHOULD'VE BEEN OPEN IN THE FALL OF 2020.
I SAID PUBLICLY THAT I WAS SUPPORTIVE OF SEXY MANDATES, I BELIEVE THEY SAVED LIVES, OVER THE LONG RUN THEY ALSO FUELED A LOT OF DISTRUST AND I WORRY THAT IT WAS THE WRONG POLICY DECISION.
WHEN YOU HAVE HONEST AND OPEN CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THESE THINGS.
WE'RE GOING TO FACE THESE CHALLENGES AGAIN.
TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION IN AN OPEN SPIRITED INQUIRY, ACKNOWLEDGING MISTAKES AND DOING BETTER, THAT'S WHAT WE NEED TO DO.
NOT A POLITICAL LITIGATION HAPPENING IN WASHINGTON.?
I WONDER IF YOU ARE SEEING THIS FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE, WHICH IS THIS SIGNIFICANT DISTRUST OF INSTITUTIONS, OF GOVERNMENT, VACCINES, SCIENCE, WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT SLIDE?
>> PROBABLY THE THING THAT WORRIES ME MOST ABOUT THE FUTURE.
A HUGE SUCCESS OF THE PANDEMIC WAS THE ABILITY TO BUILD VACCINES QUICKLY.
TREATMENTS QUICKLY.
NONE OF THAT IS USEFUL IF PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST THAT ENOUGH TO GET VACCINATED.
WE'RE SEEING OUTBREAKS OF NASAL AND WORRIED ABOUT BIRD FLU.
WHAT IS HAPPENING, THERE IS A BIGGER DISTRUST OF INSTITUTIONS, PEOPLE HAVE ALSO EXCLUDED MISTAKES PUBLIC HEALTH OFFICIALS HAVE MADE TO ESSENTIALLY TRY TO DISCREDIT THE PUBLIC HEALTH ENTERPRISE.
LIFE EXPECTANCY IN AMERICA HAS ALMOST DOUBLED IN THE LAST 100 TO 120 YEARS, LARGELY BECAUSE OF INNOVATIONS IN MEDICINE.
WE'VE GOT TO GO BACK TO BASIC PRINCIPLES OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.
IF WE DO THAT AND TO INDICATE EFFECTIVELY ABOUT UPS AND DOWNS OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD, I HOPE WE CAN BEGIN TO REBUILD TRUST.
IT IS NOT GOING TO BE DONE OVERNIGHT.
LIKE YOU MENTIONED THE MEASLES OUTBREAK IN TEXAS.
HERE WE WERE AS A NATION SO CLOSE TO HAVING COMPLETELY ERADICATED IT.
YOU SURPRISED THAT A COMMUNITY IN TEXAS HAS SUCH A RAPID SPREAD?
IN MEASLES FOR YOUR AUDIENCE KNOWS THAT IT IS THE MOST CONTAGIOUS VIRUS KNOWN TO HUMANS.
HIS FRIENDS VERY QUICKLY.
AS SOON AS IMMUNITY DROPS BELOW 95%.
WHAT HAS HAPPENED THE LAST FEW YEARS, OR HAS BEEN A CAMPAIGN AGAINST VACCINES FOR A LONG TIME BUT IT REALLY CAUGHT WIND IN THE LAST FEW YEARS.
CULMINATING WITH RFK JUANNY ROMERO.
BECOMING HOW SECRETARY IN AMERICA.
HE NOW RUNS THE HEALTH ENTERPRISE OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.
IT HAS CAUSED A LOT OF PEOPLE TO QUESTION VACCINES, THE SAFETY.
LEFT A LOT OF COMMUNITIES VULNERABLE.
IN THAT CONTEXT, I'M NOT SURPRISED TO SEE MEASLES BREAKING OUT.
I'M DISAPPOINTED WHEN YOU SEE PEOPLE GETTING SICK AND DYING FROM MEASLES GIVING HOW REASONABLE IT IS.
>> SPEAKING OF RFK JUANNY ROMERO., HE PUBLISHED AN OP-ED RECENTLY WHERE HE PROMOTED THE USE OF VACCINES.
WHAT DID YOU THINK OF IT?
FOUR IT WAS GREAT TO SEE HIM PROMOTE THAT.
AT LEAST HE IS WILLING TO DO THAT.
THE UNFORTUNATE PART IS THAT HE WENT AND DID AN INTERVIEW ON FOX NEWS, HE SAYS THINGS THAT ARE WRONG AND THEY CAUSE CONFUSION.
HE TALKS ABOUT TREATMENTS FOR MEASLES AND THERE ARE NO REAL TREATMENTS.
VITAMIN A CAN BE HELPFUL FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE VITAMIN DEFICIENT BUT IT'S NOT -- HE TALKS ABOUT COD LIVER OIL.
THOSE WERE TREATMENTS IN THE 1930s.
WE DO NOT USE IT ANYMORE BECAUSE WE HAVE VACCINE.
THE PROBLEM WITH RFK JUANNY ROMERO., HE BURIES THE LEAD AND WRAPS IT WITH OTHER INFORMATION THAT CONFUSES PEOPLE.
APRIL HAS SECRETARY -- HOW SECRETARY WOULD BE CLINICAL THAT EVERYBODY HAS TO GET VACCINATED.
>> IN 2021 HE WAS PETITIONING THE FDA TO REVOKE AUTHORIZATION FOR ALL COVID VACCINES FOR TO NOT APPROVE ANY VACCINES FORD IN THE FUTURE.
WHAT ARE THE CONSEQUENCES OF THAT CONSIDERING NOW THE HEAD OF THE FDA AS SOMEONE WHO REPORTS TO HIM?
TWO WE ALL HOPE THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN.
IT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE PRECEDENT.
THERE IS A MECHANISM TO REVOKE VACCINES WHEN EFFICACY DATA COMES IN AND WE SHOULD.
THAT IS NOT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH COVID.
THE IRONY IS THAT HE WAS DOING THIS TO A VACCINE THAT I WOULD ARGUE WAS A GREATEST ACCOMPLISHMENT OF THE DONALD TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DURING THE YEAR OF THE PANDEMIC WHILE IN OFFICE.
GREAT LEADERSHIP, GREAT SUCCESS.
THE QUESTION IN FRONT OF US, WILL HE TRY TO DO THESE THINGS FOR EXISTING VACCINES, NOT JUST FOR MEASLES BUT FOR POLIO AND OTHERS.
WHAT WILL YOU DO FOR THE NEXT VACCINE FOR A DEADLY DISEASE THAT COMES IN FRONT OF THE FDA?
WILL HE TRY TO BLOCK IT?
WE HOPE HE DOESN'T BUT WE HAVE TO WATCH.
>> RECENTLY THE FDA CANCELED AN ADVISORY MEETING THAT WOULD HELP FIGURE OUT WHAT STRAINS OF THE FLU THAT WE SHOULD TARGET THIS COMING FALL -- FLU IS ACTUALLY DEADLY FOR THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS EVERY YEAR.
I WONDER IF THERE ARE STRAINS OF THE FLU THAT DO NOT HAVE A VACCINE ON STORE SHELVES, DOES THAT COMPOUND THE DANGERS TO PEOPLE MIGHT ALSO BE INFECTED WITH COVID?
>> EVERY YEAR ABOUT 30 MILLION TO 50 MILLION PEOPLE GET INFECTED WITH THE FLU.
MOSTLY OLDER AMERICANS.
THEY DIE OF FLU EVERY YEAR.
SOME CHILDREN AND YOUNG ADULTS, AS WELL.
WE WORK WITH WHO AND AMERICAN EXPERTISE IS IMPORTANT TO MAKE SURE WE GET THE RIGHT VACCINE.
THE IRONY HERE IS THAT BY LEAVING WHO, BY CANCELING THIS MEETING, CHANCES ARE THAT WE WILL NOT HAVE A VACCINE AT ALL.
IT WILL BE DEVASTATING FOR MILLIONS OF AMERICANS.
OR WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE WHO STRAIN WITHOUT INPUT.
WE END UP BEING MORE DEPENDENT ON WHO BECAUSE THERE IS AN ALTERNATIVE MECHANISM FOR FINDING A VACCINE.
I WORRY A LOT THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS PUTTING US BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL TO MAKE THE PROCESS LESS EFFECTIVE AND BE MORE DEPENDENT ON OTHERS AND LESS RELIANT ON OUR OWN EXPERTISE FOR >> I DON'T KNOW HOW PRIVATE SECTOR ENTITIES WORK WHEN IT COMES TO VACCINES BUT I WONDER IF THEY SEE THE SIGNALS WITH THE NEW ADMINISTRATION THAT THERE IS NOT AS MUCH OF AN INCENTIVE TO DO RESEARCH AND TRYING TO PUBLISH THE DATA AND TRYING TO MAKE THE VACCINES, BECAUSE WE DO NOT KNOW IF AMERICANS ARE GOING TO WANT TO TAKE THE MEDICINES?
>> THANKFULLY THERE IS A GLOBAL COMMUNITY LIKE IN EUROPE AND OTHER PLACES THAT REMAIN ACTIVE AND INTERESTED IN PROTECTING ELDERLY.
THERE IS A LARGE COMMUNITY OF AMERICANS WHO WANT TO USE MODERN MEDICINE AND WANT TO BE VACCINATED AND TREATMENTS AVAILABLE.
THERE IS ENOUGH OF MARKETS TO BE IN THIS SPACE.
WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH THE WAY THE ADMINISTRATION IS DEALING WITH NIH AND THE FDA AND CDC, THEY ARE MAKING IT HARDER AND LESS EFFECTIVE.
I BELIEVE YOU WILL STILL SEE COMPANIES AND IN THE SPACE.
YOU WILL STILL SEE PRODUCTS BUT THEY WILL BE SLOWER AND NOT AS GOOD.
PEOPLE WILL BE WORSE OFF AND WILL MEASURE MORE PEOPLE GETTING AFFECTED AND PEOPLE DYING BECAUSE WE ARE NOT DOING THE BEST WE CAN.
>> THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
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