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> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR.'
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
THE PRESIDENT HAS MADE CLEAR THAT HE'S FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE VACCINES ARE AVAILABLE TO EVERY AMERICAN.
THAT'S OUR FOCUS.
WITH THE U.S. FOCUS AT HOME CASH-STRAPPED CUBA DEFIES THE ODDS TO PRODUCE ITS OWN VACCINE.
THE SOFT POWER OF VACCINE DIPLOMACY.
PLUS --
WHEN I'M WRITING A NOVEL, I WANT IT TO HAVE AN EMOTIONAL CONNECTION WITH PEOPLE.
THAT'S ONE OF MY GREAT PRIORITIES.
NOBEL PRIZE WINNER KAZ WELL ISIGURU TALKS WITH HIS NEW NOVEL 'CLARA AND THE SON' AND WHY HIS OWN WIFE AND DAUGHTER HAD HIS TOUGHEST CRITICS.
THEN --
THE AVERAGE PERSON, THE AVERAGE FAMILY HAS REALLY FALLEN BEHIND AND THIS IS OUR ATTEMPT TO PLUG THEM BACK INTO THE GAME.
GO BIG OR GO HOME, DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN TELLS OUR MICHEL MARTIN WHY PRESIDENT BIDEN'S COVID RELIEF PACKAGE MEETS AMERICA'S MOMENT.
'AMANPOUR' IS MADE POSSIBLE BY BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND, SUE AND EDWARD WACHENHEIMII, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN FAMILY, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATIONS FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
CALL IT ANOTHER SHOT IN THE ARM FOR HOPE.
NEW DATA HERE IN THE UK SHOWS THAT A SINGLE DOSE OF EITHER THE OXFORD ASTRAZENECA OR PFIZER VACCINE CUT THE RISK OF COVID HOSPITALIZATION BY MORE THAN 80% WHILE THE UK AND ISRAEL LEAD THE PACK IN VACCINE ROLLOUT.
BIG POWERFUL BLOCS LIKE THE EU AND UNITED STATES ARE STILL STRUGGLING WITH THEIRS.
MEANTIME, OTHER COUNTRIES LIKE RUSSIA, CHINA, INDIA ARE ALL ENGAGED IN A TYPE OF VACCINE DIPLOMACY WHEREBY THEY ARE PRODUCING AND EXPORTING DOSES TO POORER COUNTRIES THAT ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND.
EVEN THE SMALL ISLAND NATION OF CUBA IS LOOKING TO HELP OTHERS.
IT MAY BE ROCKED BY SHORTAGES OF BREAD AND EVEN PAIN MEDICATION, BUT CUBA IS ON THE CUSP OF A SCIENTIFIC BREAKTHROUGH WITH ITS OWN SOVEREIGN TWO COVID VACCINE AS CORRESPONDENT PATRICK OPPMANN REPORTS CUBA HAS BEEN A BIOMEDICAL ENGINEER FOR YEARS.
Reporter: CUBA HOPES THIS IS WHAT THE PAYOFF LOOKS LIKE TO A BIG GAMBLE.
FOR MANY OTHER DEVELOPING COUNTRIES HAVE COMPETED WITH RICHER NATIONS TO IMPORT VACCINES AGAINST THE CORONAVIRUS, CUBA HAS BEEN MAKING ITS OWN VACCINE.
IN MARCH, TWO OUT OF FOUR POTENTIAL VACCINE CANDIDATES MADE IN CUBA WILL BEGIN THEIR THIRD AND FINAL TRIALS.
IF THE TRIALS ARE SUCCESSFUL, CUBA'S WOULD BE THE FIRST VACCINES DEVELOPED IN LATIN AMERICA.
AND THE MAIN OBJECT OF THAT CLINICAL TRIAL IS TO SHOW THE CLINICAL EFFICACY OF OUR VACCINE CANDIDATE.
AFTER THAT WE COULD BE IN CONDITION FOR MASSIVE IMMUNIZATION IN CUBA AND IN OTHER COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD.
Reporter: YOU BELIEVE THAT EVERYBODY IN CUBA, THE 11 MILLION PEOPLE THAT LIVE HERE COULD BE VACCINATED BY THE END OF THE YEAR.
YES.
Reporter: CUBA IS NOW BEGINNING TO VACCINATE PEOPLE ON A LARGE SCALE AS PART OF THE THIRD TRIAL, CUBAN SCIENTISTS TELL CNN THEY HAVE ALREADY PRODUCED MORE THAN 300,000 DOSES OF SOVEREIGN TWO, ONE OF THEIR VACCINE CANDIDATES AND COULD EVENTUALLY MAKE MILLIONS MORE DOSES NEXT MONTH.
THE PANDEMIC HAS ALL BUT DESTROYED CUBA'S ECONOMY.
BEACHES THAT WOULD USUALLY BE FULL OF TOURIST ARE NOW EMPTY.
THE VACCINE THOUGH COULD HELP CHANGE CUBA'S FORTUNES AS REFERENCE HERE SAY THEY CAN PRODUCE ENOUGH TO SELL OVERSEAS AND EVEN MARKET VACCINATIONS FOR TOURISTS AS A WAY TO RESTART THE CUBA TOURISM INDUSTRY.
IT MAY SEEM UNBELIEVABLE A POOR ISLAND WHERE THERE'S BASIC SHORTAGES OF FOOD AND SHORTAGE OF PAINKILLERS AND ANTIBIOTICS COULD CUT A CUTTING EDGE VACCINE BUT CUBA HAS PRODUCED VACCINES GOING BACK DECADES.
THE SAME U.S. SANCTIONS THAT ISOLATED THE ISLANDS FORCED CUBA TO BECOME PIONEERS IN BIOMEDICAL ENGINEERS.
Translator: THIS IS VERY GOOD NEWS AND WE'RE FOLLOWING THE RESULTS CAREFULLY, HE SAID, FIRST BECAUSE THE CUBAN POPULATION WILL DIRECTLY BENEFIT FROM THE VACCINE CANDIDATE AND THIS AT SOME POINT COULD CONTROL THE TRANSMISSION IN THE COUNTRY.
CUBAN SCIENTIST SAY THE ISLAND LIKELY COULD NOT AFFORD VACCINES FROM ABROAD AND PURSUE MULTIPLE VACCINE CANDIDATE IN CASE SOME DO NOT PASS THE TRIALS.
IF KOWBA ENDS UP WITH MORE THAN ONE WORKING VACCINE IT COULD ALLOW DOCTORS A GREATER ARSENAL TO WIPE OUT THE CORONAVIRUS HERE.
I ALSO THINK THAT AT THE END WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO IMPLEMENT WHAT WE CALL PRIME AND BOOST WHICH IS USING SOME VACCINES FOR THE FIRST DOSES AND THEN BOOSTERING OR RECOGNIZING THAT THE SECOND VACCINE CAN BE DELAYED.
Reporter: IRAN IS CARRYING OUT LARGE-SCALE TRIALS WITH THE CUBAN VACCINES AND MEXICO IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN TRIALS.
AS THE WORLD STRUGGLES WITH VACCINE SHORTAGES, OTHER COUNTRIES MAY BE CALLING SOON.
PATRICK OPPMANN REPORTING FROM HAVANA THERE.
LATER IN THE PROGRAM WE'LL TALK TO AN EAKS PERT ABOUT THE CUBAN PROGRESS IN THE BIOTECH WORLD.
> NOW WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A TRIP INTO THE FUTURE WITH CELEBRATED AUTHOR KAZ WELL ISHIGURO, FAMED FOR 'REMAINS THE DAY' WHICH WON THE BOOKER PRIZE BACK IN 199 AND HIS BEST SELLING DYSTOPIAN NOVEL 'NEVER LET ME GO.
'HIS NEW BOOK, 'CLARA AND THE SUN' IS THE FIRST FOR WINNING THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR LITERATURE IN 2017 AND TOLD THROUGH THE EYES OF A ROBOTIC ARTIFICIAL FRIEND CALLED CLARA.
SHE OR IT PROVIDES COMPANIONSHIP TO A GILL CALLED JOSIE AFTER BEING GENE EDITED OR LIFTED.
IN OUR WIDE-RANGING CONVERSATION WE SPOKE ABOUT WHAT IT IS TO BE HUMAN AND HOW HIS WIFE AND DAUGHTER ARE TOUGH BUT VALUED CRITICS WHO MADE HIM REWORK --
LIKE MANY OF YOUR BOOKS 'CLARA AND THE SUN' BUSINESS A BEAUTIFULLY BOUND BOOK IS YOUR LATEST.
IT SORT OF CONTINUES SOME OF YOUR DYSTOPIAN INVESTIGATIONS INTO THE HUMAN CONDITION AND IN THIS CASE INTO THE.
A A. CONDITION.
TELL ME WHAT YOU WERE GOING FOR WHEN YOU CONCEIVED THIS BOOK.
IT WASN'T REALLY INTENDED TO BE A BOOK ABOUT.
A I. OR GENE EDITING.
THOSE THINGS ARE BOTH IN THE SLIGHTLY DYSTOPIAN BACKDROP.
I WOULDN'T EVEN CALL IT.
IT'S ON THE TURN.
IT COULD GO THAT WAY.
IT'S -- IT WAS REALLY AN INVESTIGATION FROM THE POINT OF VIEW OF AN A.I. INTO VERY SPECIFIC THINGS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE HUMAN HEART AND HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS, AND SO -- AND IN A WAY THE MAIN CHARACTER CLARA, SHE HAS MORE IN COMMON WITH, YOU KNOW, THESE CHARACTERS YOU GET IN SMALL CHILDREN'S BOOKS, MORE LIKELY A TEDDY BEAR OR A DOLL OR AN ANIMAL.
SHE'S AN OUTSIDER, AND SHE'S LOOKING AT HUMAN LIFE FROM -- FROM A VERY SPECIFIC ANGLE.
BECAUSE SHE'S BEEN CREATED TO KEEP TEENAGERS FROM BECOMING TOO LONELY, AT THE BEGINNING ANYWAY SHE SEES HUMANITY THROUGH THE LENS OF LONELINESS.
SHE'S ALWAYS ASKING PEOPLE OUT THERE IN THE STREET ARE THEY LONELY?
ARE THEY BEHAVING LIKE THAT TO AVOID LONELINESS, SO THAT'S HOW WE START, AND IT'S KIND OF AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE -- INTO HUMAN RELATIONSHIPS, AND SOME PARTICULAR QUESTIONS, YOU KNOW.
JUST TO BE CLEAR, CLARA IS THE ROBOT, AND SHE IS HIRED, ACQUIRED, BOUGHT BY JOSIEY'S MOTHER AS YOU SAY TO LOOK AFTER JOSEY, THIS KID AND YOU TALK ABOUT GENE EDITING, AND OBVIOUSLY THE WHOLE CRISPER REVOLUTION, YOU WRITE ABOUT IT.
THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS OF HUMAN BEINGS IN YOUR FUTURE HERE WHO ARE GOING TO BE LIFTED OR UNLIFTED.
TELL ME WHICH IS BETTER.
WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHICH IS BETTER, BUT, I MEAN, IT'S GOING TO BE VERY TOUGH FOR PEOPLE WHO AREN'T LIFTED.
NOW, I'M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING THAT THIS IS WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT, YOU MENTIONED CRISPER RIGHT NOW.
I THINK IT'S VERY EXCITING, GENE EDITING TOOL.
I THINK IT WILL BRING US ENORMOUS BENEFITS.
I THINK A LOT OF THE DISEASES, ILLNESSES THAT WE FEAR RIGHT NOW, WE WON'T FEAR NEARLY AS MUCH BECAUSE OF GENE EDITING.
HOWEVER, I MEAN, IT DOES OPEN THE WAY FOR USING IT FOR ENHANCEMENT AND JUST -- JUST AS WE CAN USE IT TO -- TO CURE OR MAKE US IMMUNE FROM VARIOUS KINDS OF DISORDERS.
IN THIS BOOK THE FEAR THAT IS BEING EXPRESSED IS OF SOME SORT OF MERITOCRACY THAT WE WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO CONTROL BETWEEN CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN ENHANCED AND CHILDREN WHO HAVEN'T.
SO LET ME READ BECAUSE YOU -- YOU TALKED A MOMENT AGO ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO HAVE A HEART, AND FRANKLY IT IS RIGHT ON THE BACK JACKET COVER.
YOU SAID DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE HUMAN HEART?
I DON'T MEAN SIMPLY THE ORGAN OBVIOUSLY.
I'M SPEAKING IN THE POETIC SENSE.
THE HUMAN HEART.
DO YOU THINK THERE IS SUCH A THING, SOMETHING THAT MAKES EACH OF US SPECIAL AND INDIVIDUAL?
WHAT IS THE CONCLUSION?
I DON'T PRESENT AN ACTUAL CLEAN CONCLUSION, BUT I RAISE THAT QUESTION.
IN A WORLD IN WHICH ALGORITHMS AND DATA SEEM TO BE OFFERING A KIND OF A SOLUTION TO THE HUMAN HEART, OR SOLVING IT, OF MAPPING IT OUT COMPLETELY.
WHEN WE LIVE IN THIS KIND OF WORLD WILL WE ACTUALLY START TO REGARD OURSELVES DIFFERENTLY TO THE WAY WE HAVE DONE FOR CENTURIES, AND IT ALLOWS ME TO ASK SOME OF THESE OLDER QUESTIONS LIKE DO WE HAVE A SOUL INSIDE THESE KIND OF BODIES BY VIRTUE OF WHICH IT MAKES SENSE TO SAY THAT I LOVE THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL BUT I -- I DON'T REALLY LIKE THAT ONE VERY MUCH.
IS THERE A UNIQUENESS THAT WE EACH POSSESS?
THAT ACTUALLY MEANS SOMETHING, SORE THAT -- IS THAT -- IS A SENSE OF OUR INDIVIDUAL SOUL, YOU KNOW, IS THAT DISSOLVING IN THE FACE OF MANY OF THE THINGS THAT ARE BECOMING NORMAL WITH -- WITH NEW TECHNOLOGY, NEW SCIENCE, SO THAT -- SO I'M LOOKING AT WHAT'S HAPPENING TO A PARTICULAR HUMAN FAMILY UNDER THOSE KINDS OF PRESSURES.
SO, LET ME TALK ABOUT YOUR HUMAN FAMILY BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THIS BOOK AND, AGAIN, I'LL READ, IS IN MEMORY OF MY MOTHER.
SHE DIED IN 2019.
SHE WAS 92 YEARS OLE, AND SHE WAS THE FIRST PERSON THAT YOU CALLED WHEN YOU WERE TOLD YOU WON THE NOBEL PRIZE, AND SHE WAS VERY IMPORTANT IN YOUR LIFE IN TERMS OF LEADING YOU TO BOOKS AND LITERATURE.
TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT BECAUSE YOUR EARLY YEARS I THINK WERE IN JAPAN, RIGHT?
YES.
I CAME FROM JAPAN TO BRITAIN AT THE AGE OF 5.
NO INTENTION ON THE PART OF THE FAMILY TO SETTLE PERMANENTLY.
WE WERE ALWAYS PREPARING TO GO BACK, SO, YOU KNOW, I -- I REMAINED QUITE JAPANESE WITHIN THE HOME BUT BECAME RAPIDLY BRITISH OUTSIDE OF IT.
AND LIKE A LOT OF BOYS WHEN I WAS -- WHEN I WAS A TEENAGER, I DIDN'T DO VERY MUCH READING.
I WAS VERY KEEN ON LISTENING TO MUSIC AND PLAYING MUSIC, AND -- AND MY MOTHER WAS A NATURAL STORYTELLER.
SHE WASN'T A LITERARY PERSON BUT SHE WAS WITH A VERY NATURAL STORY TERM AND SHE WAS VERY SPONTANEOUSLY GO INTO TELLING STORIES EITHER ABOUT HER OWN EXPERIENCES IN JAPAN OR HER GROWING UP OR INDEED SHE WOULD ACT OUT, YOU KNOW, SCENES FROM BOOKS OR SHAKESPEARE PLAYS, AND SHE INTRODUCED ME -- SHE WAS A PERSON WHO INTRODUCED ME TO DOYEVSKY.
I DIDN'T WANT TO REACH THAT, BUT I FOUND IT WAS A STUDENT GOING OUT OF HIS MIND AND THAT SOUNDED MORE INTERESTING AND HE'S PROBABLY REMAINED MY FAVORITE AUTHOR.
SHE'S INTRODUCED ME TO VERY MANY PEOPLE.
SHE'S VERY IMPORTANT.
SHE PROBABLY INHABITS 'CLARA AND THE SUN' IN ANOTHER KIND OF WAY.
THE THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT MANY MOTHERS THAT REMINDS ME KIND OF LIKE A PROGRAMMED ROBOT WHEN IT COMES TO CHILD CARE.
WE HAVE A VERY, VERY STRONG DESIRE TO FULFILL THIS GOAL, TO DO THE BEST FOR OUR CHILD, PROTECT OUR CHILD, COME WHAT MAY, AND MY MOTHER WAS VERY MUCH LIKE THIS.
MANY PEOPLE OF HER GENERATION SHE GAVE UP HER PROFESSION TO START A FAMILY AND EVERYTHING SHE DID I HAD THE IMPRESSION SHE HAD AT THE BACK OF HER MIND, WILL THIS BRING HER CLOSER TO THE GOAL OF DOING SOMETHING GOOD FOR HER CHILDREN?
RIGHT.
SO CLARA IS A BIT LIKE THAT.
SHE LITERALLY HAS IT PROGRAMMED INTO HER.
I ALSO WANT TO PICK UP ON SOMETHING THAT YOU SAID ABOUT BOTH NAOMI YOUR DAUGHTER AND LEONA YOUR WIFE ABOUT WHAT STRONG CRITICS THEY, AND I WAS FASCINATED TO READ HOW IMPORTANT THEY ARE ESPECIALLY IN THE WAKE OF WINNING THE NOBEL AND WINNING THE BOOKER AND HAVING SO MANY AWARDS AND SO MANY PEOPLE, I MEAN, REVERE YOUR WORK, AND WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO HAVE SUCH A -- A GOOD CRITICAL EYE ON WHAT YOU PRODUCE?
WELL, THE OBVIOUS THING IS THAT -- THE MORE MY REPUTATION RISES, THE LESS PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO GIVE ME FRANK COMMENTS ABOUT MY WRITING.
SO IT BECOMES MORE AND MORE IMPORTANT THAT I HAVE LORNA AND NAOMI AS VERY SAVAGE CRITICS.
WHEN I SAY SAVAGE, THEY ARE NOT SAVAGE FOR THE SAKE OF IT.
YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT MY WIFE.
SHE WAS MY GIRLFRIEND BACK IN 1979 WHEN I FIRST STARTED TO WRITE.
I MEAN, WHEN WE FIRST MET, I WAS NOT A WRITER, AND SO SHE SAW THE FIRST ATTEMPTS, AND -- AND IN HER -- IN HER -- IN HER EYES I'M STILL THAT PERSON I THINK, THIS PERSON -- I'M NOT A FAMOUS WRITER.
I'M JUST A PERSON WHO RECKONS HE CAN WRITING, AND SO SHE HASN'T CHANGED IN THE WAY THAT SHE LOOKED AT ANYTHING I PRODUCE.
AND DIDN'T SHE FAMOUSLY THROW OUT COPIOUS NUMBERS OF PAGES OF ONE OF YOUR FIRST DRAFTS BASICALLY SAYING, NO, NO, NO.
THIS JUST DOESN'T CUT IT YET.
YEAH, SHE DID THAT WITH THE LAST ONE AND ACTUALLY WITH 'CLARA AND THE SUN' AS WELL.
I DID MONTHS OF EXTRA WORK AFTER I THOUGHT I FINISHED IT, AFTER SHE TOLD ME I -- I HAVE TO WORK ON THIS, THIS AND THIS, AND THEN -- THEN, OF COURSE, MY -- MY WRITER DAUGHTER GOT -- GOT HOLD OF IT AND GAVE ME A HUGE PILE OF NOTES SO I THOUGHT I HAD FINISHED THIS NOVEL IN APRIL 2019.
I DIDN'T HAND IT IN UNTIL DECEMBER OF 2019 BECAUSE OF THESE -- THESE VERY TOUGH PEOPLE IN MY FAMILY THAT I HAVE TO GET PAST, BUT I -- YOU KNOW, I -- I THINK THAT'S OKAY.
I THINK MANY -- MANY PEOPLE IN ALL KINDS OF AREAS OF ARTISTIC ENDEAVOR I THINK OFTEN HAVE PEOPLE LIKE THIS WHO ARE PART OF THE TEAM.
AS KIND OF A FRONT THING, I JUST HAVE MY NAME, BUT, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE NAME OF THIS LITTLE TEAM.
LET ME ASK YOU BECAUSE THE IMAGINARY WORLD, THE HISTORICAL WORLD AND THEN THERE'S THE EMOTIONAL WORLD AND THE EXISTENTIAL WORLD AND THE COMMITTEE SAID BUT, HE IN NOVELS OF GREAT EMOTIONAL FORCE HAS UNCOVERED THE ABYSS BENEATH OUR ILLUSORY SENSE OF CONNECTION WITH THE WORLD.
DO YOU STRUGGLE WITH CONNECTION WITH THE WORLD, YOUR PLACE IN THE WORLD?
I MEAN, I'VE HEARD A LOT OF ARTISTS SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE CONCEPT OF ALONENESS, THE EXISTENTIAL STRUGGLE IS WHAT FUELS THEM AND FUELS THEIR ART.
YEAH.
I MEAN, I REALLY LOVE THE -- THAT CITATION.
I LIKE PARTICULARLY THE STUFF ABOUT EMOTIONAL FORCE BECAUSE THAT IS SO IMPORTANT TO ME.
WRITING A NOVEL I WANT IT TO HAVE AN EMOTIONAL CONNECTION WITH PEOPLE.
THAT'S ONE OF MY GREAT PRIORITIES, AND -- AND IT'S ALSO A PRIORITY OF MINE THAT IT STAYS ON THEIR MIND FOR A LONG TIME AFTERWARDS.
THE SECOND PART OF THAT CITATION I'VE BEEN TRYING TO UNPACK EVER SINCE THEY CAME OUT WITH IT.
I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE WHAT IT MEANS, BUT I LIKE IT.
I'M TRYING TO ASPIRE TO IT.
MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING LIKE WHAT YOU SAY.
I MEAN, THAT WE HAVE KIND OF AN ILLUSION OF BEING CONNECTED EACH OTHER AND TO SOCIETY TO A GREATER EXTENT THAN WE REALLY ARE.
AND THAT'S POSSIBLE AND I THINK I DO TOUCH ON THAT IN 'CLARA' AS WELL AS OTHER BOOKS THAT THERE IS SOMETHING FUNDAMENTALLY LONELY ABOUT HUMAN BEINGS, NOT JUST THE EVERYDAY LONELINESS OF NOT HAVING, YOU KNOW, FRIENDS AROUND YOU AND STUFF LIKE THAT, BUT EVEN WHEN YOU'RE SURROUNDED DAY BY DAY BY FAMILY AND LOVED ONES.
THERE IS SOMETHING ABOUT OUR VERY NATURE THAT MAKES US ACTUALLY LONELY AND SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE ACTUAL -- THE VERY COMPLEXITY OF OUR INDIVIDUAL.
OBVIOUSLY FOR THE LAST YEAR THAT'S ALL ANYBODY HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT.
EVERYBODY IS IN LOCKDOWN.
NOBODY QUITE HAS THE SAME KIND OF CONNECTION THAT THEY HAD BEFORE.
YOUR BOOKS COULD BE SAID, CERTAINLY 'REMAINS OF THE DAY' AND SEVERAL OTHERS, INCLUDING THIS ONE 'CLARA AND THE SUN' TO BE ABOUT AN ELEMENT OF LOCKDOWN AND I JUST WONDER HOW YOU SURVIVED LOCKDOWN EMOTIONALLY, INTELLECTUALLY, SPIRITUALLY.
I MEAN FOR ME IT'S RELATIVELY EASY.
I HAVE A VERY PRIVILEGED, LUXURIOUS LIFE WHERE I'M NOT MADE TO GO OUTSIDE AND RISK MYSELF IF I DON'T WANT TO.
YOU KNOW, I'M VERY COMFORTABLE.
THE THERE ARE MANY, MANY PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO AREN'T IN THAT POSITION.
NOW I FEEL ALMOST GUILTY ABOUT THE WAY -- HOW COMFORTABLE LOCKDOWN HAS BEEN FOR ME, BUT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE WHOLE PANDEMIC THING.
I MEAN, I THINK THE OVERWHELMING THING THAT IT HAS -- THAT WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE IS THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE DIED.
YEAH.
I THINK A STAGGERING, STAGGERING NUMBER OF PEOPLE HAVE DIED.
THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE RIGHT NOW BEREAVED, SHOCKED, MOURNING SOMEBODY THEY HAVE LOST AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT COMES -- BEFORE WE START DISCUSSING WHAT IT TELLS US ABOUT, YOU KNOW, HOW SOCIETY IS MOVING ON OR HOW IT'S SPEEDED UP TECHNOLOGY OR HOW IT'S CHANGING THE HIGH STREET, I THINK THE HUGE, HUGE THING THAT WE'VE GOT TO FACE UP TO IS JUST THIS STAGGERING AMOUNT OF DEATH.
WE USUALLY ONLY GET THIS KIND OF DEATH WHEN WE HAVE MAJOR WARS.
IN BRITAIN I THINK WE'RE DOUBLE THE DEATH FIGURE, CIVILIAN DEATH FIGURE OF THE SECOND WORLD WAR NOW, AND I THINK THIS -- THIS IS WHAT'S REALLY GOING TO HIT US, THE HUGE EMOTIONAL IMPACT.
I'M JUST STAGGERED BY THE AMOUNT OF SORROW AND MISERY THAT IT'S CAUSED AND IS CAUSING.
AND RIGHTLY SO OF THE RIGHTLY SO.
SO I WANT TO ASK YOU A FINAL QUESTION ON A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT TOPIC.
YOU ARE KNOWN TO HAVE GUITARS, AND ARE YOU KNOWN TO, I THINK, WRITE SOME LYRICS FOR CERTAIN MUSICIANS, AND YOU'RE ALSO KNOWN TO ADMIRE AND LIKE BOB DYLAN.
FIRST I WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT BOB DYLAN WINNING THE NOBEL PRIZE FOR LITERATURE.
WHAT DID YOU THINK ABOUT THAT?
I WAS DELIGHTED.
I MEAN, HE WON IT THE YEAR BEFORE ME, AND I WAS DELIGHTED TO GO IN HIS FOOTSTEPS.
NOW THE BIG QUESTION ABOUT THIS, HIS NOBEL PRIZE.
SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID HE -- HE DESERVED IT BECAUSE HIS LYRICS ARE LIKE POETRY.
IN OTHER WORDS, YOU IGNORE EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT WHAT HE DOES, PUT THOSE LYRICS DOWN ON A PIECE OF PAPER, THAT THAT'S ONE ARGUMENT.
NOW, I DON'T ACTUALLY GO FOR THAT.
I LIKE TO THINK THAT THE NOBEL PRIZE WAS A RECOGNITION NOT JUST OF DYLAN BUT OF THE ART THAT HE HELPED ACTUALLY BRING TO A VERY HIGH LEVEL IN THE 1960s AND 1970s WHICH IS THE ART OF THE SINGER/SONG WRITER.
NOW THE LITERATURE PRIZE ACTUALLY INCLUDES -- IT RECOGNIZES, YOU KNOW, DRAMA, POETRY, FICTION USUALLY, YOU KNOW, BUT I THINK -- I'M HOPING THAT IT STARTED TO RECOGNIZE THIS VERY IMPORTANT ART FORM WHICH IS A MIXTURE OF PERFORMANCE LITERATURE, MUSIC, STORYTELLING, WHICH IS THE ART OF THE SINGER/SONGWRITER AS EXEMPLIFIED BY DYLAN.
I DON'T THINK YOU CAN SEPARATE THINGS LIKE JUST HIS LYRICS.
SO HOW DISAPPOINTED WERE YOU WHEN YOU WERE BOTH GOING TO BE AWARDED HONORARY DEGREES I THINK AT ST. ANDREWS UNIVERSITY AND YOU DIDN'T TURN UP AT THE LAST MINUTE.
YEAH, THAT WAS A DISAPPOINTMENT.
THAT WAS BACK IN 2003.
I WAS TOLD THAT ONLY TWO PEOPLE WERE GOING TO RECEIVE THIS THING TOGETHER AND IT WAS GOING TO BE ME AND BOB DILL YAP SO OFF I WENT UP TO SCOTLAND, VERY EAGER AND THE IDEA OF KIND OF BEING ROBED IN SOME KIND OF STRANGE COSTUME IN SOME BACK ROOM WITH BOB DYLAN WAITING TO GO TO TAKE PART IN SOME KIND OF ACADEMIC CEREMONY I THOUGHT WAS PRETTY ENTICING.
HE DID ACTUALLY GO THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
HE COUNCILED AT THE LAST MONTH AND THEN I FOUND MYSELF WITH THE FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IN THE HOUSE OF COMMONS AND I WAS REALLY HAPPY TO RECEIVE A DEGREE WITH HER
THE FIRST FEMALE SPEAKER, RIGHT?
YES, YES, I BELIEVE SO, AND SO, YEAH, I THOUGHT IT WAS ODD.
WE HAD A NARROW MISS FOR STOCKHOLM THE NEXT.
HE WAS THERE ONE YEAR AND THEN I GOT IT TOGETHER THE NEXT.
YES, YES.
I'M GOING TO THINK ABOUT THAT.
THANKS SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US AND THE NOVEL 'CLARA AND THE SUN' IS OUT AND IT'S BOUND TO BE A HUGE DUCK SES LIKE YOUR OTHER ONES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH, CHRISTIANE.
VERY NICE TO BE WITH YOU.
> OUR CONVERSATION JUST AHEAD OF THE PUBLICATION WHICH IS TODAY.
MORE NOW ON OUR STORY ABOUT VACCINE DEVELOPMENT CUBAN STYLE.
THE SMALL ISLAND NATION 39 MILES OFF THE COAST OF THE UNITED STATES DEVELOPED ITS OWN COVID SHOT CALLED SOVEREIGN TWO AND IT'S SET TO THEIR WITH OUR COUNTRIES.
CUBA'S REMARKABLE ACHIEVEMENT IS NOW LEADING MANY WHAT OTHER MEDICAL ADVANCES IT COULD OFFER THE WORLD.
CANDACE JOHNSON IS PRESIDENT AND CEO OF ROSWELL PARK COMPREHENSIVE CANCER CENTER IN NEW YORK.
SHE WORKED CLOSELY WITH CUBAN SCIENTISTS TO BRING THEIR LUNG CANCER VACCINE TO THE U.S. FOR TRIALS, AND SHE IS JOINING ME NOW.
THE WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, CANDACE JOHNSON.
SO LET ME ASK YOU.
THANK YOU.
FIRST, YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS CUBA AND THE UNITED STATES ARE AT LOGGERHEADS.
DIPLOMACY HAS BEEN DISRUPTED.
THERE'S SANCTIONS T.BARELY PAY FOR ITS DAILY BREAD AND YET OVER THE DECADES IT'S BEEN REALLY STANDOUT ON THE BIOMEDICAL FRONT.
WHY IS THAT, DO YOU THINK?
SO CUBA HAS REALLY DISTINGUISHED ITSELF AND SOME OF THE MOST PREEMINENT IMOLOGISTS.
THESE INDIVIDUALS ARE SOME OF THE BRIGHTEST AND MOST INNOVATIVE SCIENTISTS THAT I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE TO WORK WITH, AND, YOU KNOW, THEY WERE -- CUBA WAS SORT OF FORCED INTO THIS BECAUSE THEY WERE -- THEY DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE DRUGS THAT YOU MIGHT GET IN WESTERN COUNTRIES SO THEY DEVELOPED THE TECHNOLOGIES TO VACCINATE THEIR OWN PEOPLE AGAINST A WHOLE VARIETY OF THINGS.
WE WERE OBVIOUSLY INTERESTED IN THEIR DEVELOPMENT OF A LUNG CANCER VACCINE, BUT IT IS NO SURPRISE TO ME THAT THEY ARE ON THE FOREFRONT OF A COVID VACCINE.
THEY ARE -- THEY ARE TRULY REMARKABLE PEOPLE.
SO TELL ME, I MEAN, IT SOUNDS THAT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO BE PRICKING UP THE EARS AT THE SOUND OF A LUNG CANCER VACCINE, IS IT THERAPEUTIC, IS IT PREVENTIVE?
HOW HAVE THEY BEEN ABLE TO DO IT AND HOW CAN YOU GET IT?
YOU KNOW THAT'S THE GENIUS OF THE CUBAN SCIENTISTS.
LUNG CANCER AS WE ALL KNOW, THERE'S NEW AND NOVEL APPROACHES OUT THAT CAN INCREASE SOMEONE'S SURVIVAL EVEN IN LATE STAGE DISEASE, BUT LUNG CANCER, MOST OF THE -- OF THE THERAPIES AT LEAST A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO WERE FOCUSED AROUND THIS ONE GROWTH FACTOR RECEPTOR, AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO ANY OF THOSE DRUGS AND SO THEY HIGH POTT SIZED, HMM, I AND WORRY IF WE COULD IMMUNIZE PEOPLE AGAINST THIS PARTICULAR GROWTH FACTOR, AND THE GROWTH FACTOR, THE CANCER CELLS, THE LUNG CANCER CELLS ARE ADDICTED TO THE GROWTH FACTOR SO WHEN THE GROWTH FACTOR IS PRESENT THE TUMOR GROWS.
IF YOU COULD PREVENT THE PRESENCE OF THAT GROWTH FACTOR IN THE PATIENT PERHAPS THE TUMOR WOULD STOP, AND SO THIS -- THE REAL GENIUS OF THIS IS IMMUNIZING SOMEONE AGAINST A PROTEIN THAT'S NATURAL TO THEIR BODY IS NO EASY TASK, AND THAT'S WHY, YOU KNOW, I'M SURE THAT THAT'S WHY THEIR COVID VACCINE WAS SO SUCCESSFUL BECAUSE THEY DEVELOPED A TECHNOLOGY TO TAKE THAT GROWTH FACTOR AND CONJUGATE IT TO A PROTEIN AND IMMUNIZE PEOPLE AGAINST THIS GROWTH FACTOR AND LO AND BEHOLD THEY DEMONSTRATED PATIENTS HAD A VERY STRONG IMMUNE RESPONSE AND DEVELOPED -- AND ACTUALLY DEPLETED THE LEVELS OF THIS GROWTH FACTOR IN THESE LUNG CANCER PATIENTS.
NO GROWTH FACTOR, THE TUMORS DON'T GROW.
IT WAS GENIUS, AND THEY DID STUDIES IN CUBA.
THEY HAVE DONE STUDIES IN SOUTH AMERICA.
THEY ACTUALLY HAD GONE THROUGH PHASE THREE STUDIES.
THESE RESULTS WERE PUBLISHED ACTUALLY IN AN AMERICAN JOURNAL.
THEIR RIGOR WAS JUST AS RIGOROUS AS IN THE STATES.
MANY OF THESE SCIENTISTS PRESENT THESE RESULT AT NATIONAL MEETINGS.
WE WANTED TO BRING THIS VACCINE TO THE UNITED STATES AND SO BACK IN 2015 WE STARTED THE PROCEDURE TO DO EXACTLY THAT, AND TODAY, IT TOOK A WHILE FOR US TO DO THAT, AND TODAY WE HAVE CLINICAL TRIALS OPEN HERE AT ROSWELL PARK AND ALSO AT A ANOTHER OF OTHER INSTITUTIONS IN NEW YORK STATE AND HOPE TO OPEN THEM IN SOME OTHER INSTITUTIONS AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND WE'VE ALREADY VALIDATED SOME OF THE INITIAL CONCEPTS ABOUT THIS DRUG.
AND -- AND, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S REALLY EXTRAORDINARY TO HEAR YOU TALK ABOUT THAT.
WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE IMMUNE FACTOR, THE GROWTH PROTEIN, ET CETERA, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT IMMUNOTHERAPY WHICH WE HEAR A LOT ABOUT IN TRYING TO TREAT CANCER THESE DAYS.
EXACTLY.
THIS IS A FORM OF IMMUNOTHERAPY.
ANYTHING THAT YOU USE TO STIMULATE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM IS IMMUNOTHERAPY.
THIS IS JUST ONE KIND OF IMMUNOTHERAPY AND SINOVAC, THE NAME OF THE DRUG, MAY BE IN PREVENTION.
SAY YOU HAVE LUNG CANCER, IT'S IN ISOLATION AND EARLY STAGE DISEASE WE CAN ACTUALLY CUT IT OUT AND REMOVE IT BUT WE KNOW THOSE PATIENTS ARE AT HIGH RISK OF OCCURRENCE SO YOU REDUCE THE TUMOR BURDEN IF YOU WILL IN THE INDIVIDUAL.
YOU IMMUNIZE THEM WITH SINOVAC.
THEY HAVE CIRCULATING ANTIBODIES AGAINST THIS GROWTH FACTOR AND, THEREFORE, THEY GET NO RECURRENCE AND WE ACTUALLY THINK THAT THIS HAS GREAT PROMISE.
WE'RE ABOUT TO INITIATE A NEW TRIAL TO LOOK AT THIS IN -- IN OUR PATIENTS.
VERY EXCITING.
AND JUST TO BE CLEAR.
JUST TO BE CLEAR, CANDACE JOHNSON.
YES.
IS THIS THE ONLY -- THE ONLY SOURCE OF THIS -- OF THIS SINOVAC LUNG CANCER THERAPY VACCINE?
IS IT ONLY FROM CUBA?
ONLY FROM CUBA, YES, INDEED.
WOW!
YEAH.
NO, I KNOW, AND, YOU KNOW, THE THING THAT IS SO REMARKABLE IS THAT CUBA IS -- DOES NOT -- THE CUBAN SCIENTISTS WHO ARE IN MY MIND INNOVATIVE, BRILLIANT, THEY ARE ALWAYS THINKING OUT OF THE BOX.
THEY ARE ALWAYS TRYING TO THINK VERY CREATIVELY ABOUT HOW TO SOLVE A PROBLEM.
THEY DON'T HAVE THE ADVANTAGES THAT WE HAVE IN THIS COUNTRY OF FANCY EQUIPMENT, ALL THESE VERY EXPENSIVE REAGENTS.
THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TO USE THEIR HEAD AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO ATTACK THESE PROBLEMS, AND THEY HAVE BEEN VERY SUCCESSFUL AT THIS, AND SO WE'RE VERY EXCITED TO HAVE THIS COLLABORATION.
YOU CAN WELL IMAGINE DURING COVID THINGS HAVE SORT OF BEEN PUT ON HOLD BUT WE'RE ANXIOUS TO SEE COVID COME TO AN END SO THAT WE CAN CONTINUE OUR COLLABORATIONS WITH THESE WONDERFUL FOLKS.
AND THE COVID VACCINE, THE SOVEREIGN 2 AS WE DISCUSSED, I THINK IT'S ABOUT TO HEAD INTO ITS FINAL PHASE OF TRIALS AND THEN AS WE HAVE SAID, THEY HAVE SAID THEY WANT TO EXPORT IT AS WELL AS IMMUNIZING THEIR OWN PEOPLE CLEARLY.
YES.
AND OFFERING IT AS SORT OF TOURIST VACCINE PACKAGE HOLIDAYS TO CUBA AS A WAY TO REBOOST THEIR SHATTERED ECONOMY.
YOU'VE BEEN THERE A LOT.
I KNOW --
YES.
YOU'VE BEEN TO CUBA.
YOU'VE SPOKEN TO THE SIGN TIPS.
YOU'VE LOOKED THROUGH YOUR, YOU KNOW, PROFESSIONAL LENS AT WHAT THEY ARE DOING.
TALK TO ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE SOFT POWER IN TERMS OF VACCINE DIPLOMACY AND MEDICAL DIPLOMACY.
OVER THE DECADES THEY HAVE EXPORTED THIS THING THAT THEY DO SO WELL.
YES.
THEY HAVE -- YOU KNOW, THE SCIENCE AND ESPECIALLY APPLIED SCIENCE, SO THESE IMOLOGISTS VERY MUCH ARE DEVELOPING PREVENTIVE MEASURES FOR THEIR CITIZENS.
THEY ARE ALWAYS THINKING ABOUT -- AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S PURELY FOR THE GOOD OF THEIR MANKIND.
YOU KNOW.
OBVIOUSLY THEY WANT TO EXPORT THIS KNOWLEDGE AND HELP OTHER FOLKS AROUND THE WORLD BUT THEIR MOTIVES ARE REALLY TO HELP THEIR CITIZENS IN THE DEVELOPMENT OF THESE VACCINES, AND SO IT WAS REALLY -- WHEN YOU GO TO CUBA AND YOU SEE THE DEDICATION OF THESE SCIENTISTS AND YOU SEE HOW REALLY INNOVATIVE THEY ARE AND WHAT THEY DO WITH MUCH LESS THAN WE DO EVEN IN MY OWN INSTITUTION, IT REALLY IS -- IT'S AWE-INSPIRING AND WE TREASURE THE RELATIONSHIPS THAT WE HAVE.
SINOVAX IS A VERY INTERESTING LUNG CANCER VACCINE BUT THERE'S OTHER THINGS THAT THEY HAVE THAT WE CAN AVAIL OURSELVES IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE'RE HOPEFULLY GOING TO BE A CONDUIT FOR THOSE THINGS GOING FORWARD.
GIVE ME ONE -- ONE SNEAK PEEK OF A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH VACCINE THAT THEY MIGHT GIVE YOU.
WELL, THEY HAVE ANOTHER VACCINE INVOLVING THE USE.
I MUN SYSTEM THAT MAY HAVE APPLICATION IN A WIDE VARIETY OF CANCERS.
THEY HAVE A LOT OF INNOVATIVE DRUGS THAT THEY ARE WORKING ON.
MM-HMM.
YOU KNOW, EVERYBODY KNOWS, AND I'M GOING TO DO THE CLICHE, I'M GOING TO PLAY THE PICTURES OF THE OLD CARS THAT THEY HAVE BEEN REPAIRING AND KEEPING ON THE ROAD FOR DECADES.
YES.
THEY HAVE.
MANY OF THEM OLD AMERICAN CARS.
YES.
AND I'M GOING TO READ YOU WHAT -- WHAT THE DIRECTOR OF THE CUBAN NEUROSCIENCE HAVE SAID.
CUBANS ARE IN THE ONLY ABLE TOLL MAKE OLD CARS TO WORK, THEY CAN MANAGE TO MAKE OLD EQUIPMENT WORK, TOO, SO AS YOU'VE SAID THEY HAVE HAD TO WORK WITH SUB -- WELL, SUBPAR I GUESS EQUIPMENT BUT -- BUT NONETHELESS RAISING THEIR GAME SCIENTIFICALLY, AND THEY HAVE ALSO BEEN SENDING DOCTORS, AND WE'VE GOT IMAGES OF THAT, TOO, DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC TO PLACES LIKE ITALY.
WE'VE GOT PICTURES OF THEM DISEMBARKING IN ITALY IN THE SPRING OF THIS YEAR WHEN THE PANDEMIC WAS SO BAD.
THE CAN YOU JUST SORT OF WAX PHILOSOPHICAL, IF YOU LIKE, ON, YOU KNOW, THEIR ROLE AND RUSSIA'S ROLE AND CHINA'S ROLE AND INDIA'S ROLE IN TRYING TO GET THIS VITAL MEDICINE TO THE COUNTRIES THAT CAN'T AFFORD IT, AND WE KNOW FROM THE FIGURES THAT THE RICH COUNTRIES HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT UP BILLIONS OF DOSES OF COVID VACCINE AND THE POORER COUNTRIES IN THE DEVELOPING WORLD JUST DON'T HAVE THAT ACCESS.
THEY DO NOT.
I MEAN, IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT THE EBOLA OUTBREAKS IN AFRICA, WHO WERE THE PHYSICIANS THERE ON THE FRONT LINE?
IT WAS THE CUBAN PHYSICIANS SO THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE IN THOSE INSTANCES, AND THEY DID PLAY A VERY IMPORTANT ROLE IN ITALY, AND I THINK THEY SEE THEIR PLACE.
WE'RE ALL PEOPLE AND WE'RE ALL HERE FOR THE BETTERMENT OF MANKIND AND I THINK THE CUBANS PERHAPS TAKE IT TO A EXTRA STEP BECAUSE THEY ARE TRULY DEDICATED TO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE THAT ARE SUFFERING FROM DEVASTATING DISEASES.
I MEAN, THIS IS A POLITICAL QUESTION, BUT DO YOU REGRET THAT THEY ARE TARGETED BY YOUR COUNTRY, THAT, YOU KNOW, THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION DID RESTORE DIPLOMATIC TIES, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION DID NOT.
I DON'T WANT YOU TO TALK POLITICALLY.
I WANT YOU TO TALK SIGN TUSKICALLY AND MEDICALLY ABOUT COULD YOU PERHAPS GET MORE IF IT WAS A DIFFERENT POLITICAL SITUATION OR IS IT BECAUSE THEY ARE UNDER SUCH PRESSURE THAT WE'VE DISCUSS THAT HAD THEY ALSO ARE SO INGENIOUS IN THIS FIELD?
THAT'S A VERY INTERESTING QUESTION AND ACTUALLY THROUGHOUT -- YOU KNOW, AS YOU SAY WE STARTED IN IN THE HOBBY MAH ADMINISTRATION AND WENT THROUGH DIFFERENT PRESIDENTS, BUT ALL THE WAY THROUGH REGARDLESS OF WHO WAS SITTING IN THE WHITE HOUSE WE STILL MANAGED TO VISIT EACH OTHER AND STILL MANAGED TO CONTINUE OUR COLLABORATIONS.
REHAD TO BE MORE INVENTIVE ABOUT HOW WE DID IT, BUT WE STILL MANAGED TO ACHIEVE AND BE SUCCESSFUL AND I THINK THAT IT PROBABLY DOES GO A LITTLE BIT TO THE HEART AND SOUL OF THE CUBAN SCIENTISTS AND MAKES THEM MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE THINKING OUTSIDE THE BOX BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BECAUSE OF THE SITUATION, BUT WE TRY TO JUST FOCUS ON DEVELOPING THESE DRUGS TO HELP AMERICANS AND POTENTIALLY WE HAVE THINGS HERE IN THIS COUNTRY THAT COULD REALLY BENEFIT THE CUBAN PEOPLE THAT THEY JUST HAVE NO HACK SES TO, SO WE'RE HOPEFUL THROUGH THESE COLLABORATIONS WE CAN BE THERE FOR EACH OTHER.
WE'RE ALL PEOPLE HERE.
IT'S REALLY AN AMAZING MEDICAL SUCCESS STORY AND REALLY AN EXAMPLE, REALLY, OF -- OF HUMANITARIAN AND MEDICAL DIPLOMACY AND BRIDGE-BUILDING.
CANDACE JOHNSON, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
A REALLY FASCINATING STORY.
> NOW THE AMERICAN RESCUE MAN WHICH IS THE $1.9 TRILLION STIMULUS PACKAGE TO HELP THOSE HIT HARDEST BY THE PANDEMIC HAS PASSED THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.
THE ECONOMIC PACK AND HAS BEEN PRESIDENT BIDEN'S TOP PRIORITY SINCE HE OFFERED OFFICE.
DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN TIM RYAN VOTED FOR THE PLAN.
HE ALSO RAN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2020, AND HE'S NOW EYEING A SENATE RUN IN 2022.
HERE HE IS TALKING WITH OUR MICHEL MARTIN ABOUT HIS ROLE IN INVESTIGATING THE CAPITOL RIOT AND THE CHALLENGES AHEAD IN THE SENATE FOR THE COVID RELIEF BILL.
THANKS, CHRISTIANE.
CONGRESSMAN RYAN, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
TWO MONTHS AGO YOUR WORKPLACE WAS INVADED BY AN ARMED MOB.
YOU WENT THROUGH IMPEACHMENT, AND, YOU KNOW, NOW YOUR WORKPLACE IS STILL SURROUNDED BY BARBED WIRE AND FENCING, AND I WAS JUST WONDERING WHAT THE VIBE WAS LIKE.
YOU STILL HAVE CERTAIN NUMBERS WHO ARE EITHER MINIMIZING WHAT THE EXPERIENCE WAS LIKE OR SAYING SAYING IT WASN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL OR STILL IN DENIAL ABOUT WHO WAS ACTUALLY RESPONSIBLE AND I WONDER HOW THAT AFFECTS THE WORKING RELATIONSHIPS.
LOOK, IT'S NOT GOOD.
THERE'S NO REAL WAY TO SUGAR COAT IT.
IT'S NOT GOOD.
THERE'S NOT HAD A GOOD RELATIONSHIP BECAUSE YOU -- YOU EITHER HAVE OF MEMBERS I THINK ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE WHO IN MANY WAYS WERE COMPLICIT.
CONTINUED TO TRY TO INCITE WHAT HAPPENED ON JANUARY 6th.
CAME RIGHT BACK TO THE CAPITOL AFTER THE INSURRECTION AND BUSINESS AS USUAL, AND THEN YOU -- YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT LOOKED THE OTHER WAY WHICH, YOU KNOW, IS AIDING AND ABETTING JUST, YOU KNOW, THROUGH THEIR INACTION THROUGH ACTS OF OMISSION INSTEAD OF ACTS OF COMISSION, AND THAT'S FRUSTRATING BECAUSE IT GETS HARD TO TRY TO HAVE A WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH THOSE PEOPLE, AND -- AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A LOT OF DENIAL IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY RIGHT NOW AND THAT MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO TRY TO WORK WITH THEM.
I WANTED TO POINT OUT THAT YOU ARE HEADING ONE OF THE COMMITTEES THAT'S ACTUALLY INVESTIGATING THE RIOT BECAUSE YOU'RE THE CHAIR OF THE SUBCOMMITTEE THAT HAS AUTHORIZATION OVER THE CAPITOL POLICE SO YOU'RE LOOKING INTO THAT PART OF IT, AND I JUST WANTED TO -- YOU KNOW, YOU JUST HAD A HEARING A COUPLE OF DAYS AGO.
HAVE YOU LEARNED ANYTHING?
WELL, WE LEARNED THAT THE THREATS ARE ONGOING, THAT THERE'S STILL A LOT OF CHATTER ABOUT TALKING OVER THE CAPITOL AND ASSASSINATING POLITICIANS AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY DEEPLY TROUBLING FOR MEMBERS OFFING COULD, THEIR FAMILIES, THEIR FRIENDS, THEIR STAFF, OUR STAFF, SO THAT'S BEEN DIFFICULT, BUT WE'RE ALSO MOVING FORWARD WITH WHAT WE'RE GOING TO DO TO PROTECT THE CAPITOL AND TO PROTECT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, SO WE'RE GATHERING THAT INFORMATION.
WE'RE WORKING VERY CLOSELY WITH GENERAL HONORE WHO IS PUTTING THE STRATEGY TOGETHER FOR US ON HOW WE MOVE FORWARD.
SO, KNOW, WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PIECE IT ALL TOGETHER NOW.
THERE WAS EVIDENCE PRESENTED AT THE HEARING THAT THE CAPITOL POLICE LEADERSHIP DID TRY TO GET ADDITIONAL HELP AND WHETHER THEY ASKED SOON ENOUGH, TOOK IT SERIOUSLY ENOUGH, THAT'S ALL PART OF WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO SORT OUT BUT THERE IS EVIDENCE THAT THEY CALLED FOR ADDITIONAL HELP AND THAT THEY WERE DENIED IN PART BECAUSE THE PENTAGON, POLITICAL APPOINTEES THERE, IS DID NOT WANT THAT TO GO FORWARD.
THE POINT OF VIEW OF THE CAPITOL POLICE WHO TESTIFIED IS THEY DIDN'T WANT THE OPTICS OF -- OF SENDING THE NATIONAL GUARD IN TO CONFRONT PEOPLE THEY PERCEIVED AS THEIR SUPPORTERS, BUT THOSE PEOPLE ARE GONE NOW.
IF THAT'S THE CASE, WHAT DO YOU DO ABOUT THAT?
I THINK YOU FIGURE OUT WHAT'S A BETTER CHAIN OF COMMAND AND, AGAIN, LOOK, WE WERE DEALING WITH THE LEADERSHIP FROM THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH THAT WE'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS COUNTRY, SO IT'S -- IT WAS A VERY UNIQUE SITUATION WHERE THE PRESIDENT INCITED THESE FOLKS TO GO DOWN TO THE CAPITOL.
SAID HE WAS GOING TO GO JOIN THEM AND ALL OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HAVE ALL REPORTED ON THAT EVERYBODY KNOWS HAD BEEN GOING ON THROUGH DECEMBER AND JANUARY TO LEAD TO THIS, SO I THINK THAT FROM AN INFORMATION FLOW STANDPOINT AND CONTROL STANDPOINT THERE MAY BE SOME OTHER WAYS WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS, BUT, LOOK, IN MY ESTIMATION, THIS RESTS WITH THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS WHO KEPT DENYING THE REQUESTS FROM THE CAPITOL POLICE, AND THEN I THINK THE CAPITOL POLICE IS TO BLAME AS WELL, THE LEADERSHIP, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T PUSH HARD ENOUGH.
I MEAN, IF YOU KEPT ASKING FOR MORE NATIONAL GUARD, WE NEED ANOTHER, YOU KNOW, NOT HUNDREDS BUT PROBABLY THOUSANDS OF TROOPS AND THEY WEREN'T GIVING THEM TO YOU, YOU NEEDED TO RAISE HOLY HELL ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE WERE RELYING ON YOU.
I HAD A CALL WITH THE CHIEF OF POLICE AND THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS THE NIGHT BEFORE, AND IT WAS A BUNCH OF HAPPY TALK, THAT WE'RE COVERED.
EVERYTHING IS FINE.
NOW, THEY SHOULD HAVE COME TO ME AS CHAIR OF THE COMMITTEE.
THEY SHOULD HAVE COME TO OTHER MEMBERS OF CONGRESS WHO OVERSEES THIS STUFF AND SAY, LOOK, WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM.
THE SERGEANT-AT-ARMS, THEY DIDN'T EVEN BRING THIS REQUEST TO THE CAPITOL POLICE BOARD FOR AN OFFICIAL VOLT.
THE CHIEF OF POLICE SHOULD HAVE PUSHED FOR THAT.
AT LEAST GIVE ME A VOTE AND I'M OFF THE WORK HERE AND WE GET THE BOARD TO APPROVE OR DISAPPROVE OF IT.
THERE WAS A MISTAKE IN THE LEADERSHIP.
THE RANK AND FILE DID EVERYTHING THEY WERE ASKED OF AND THEY WERE REALLY EXPOSED TO A LOT OF DANGER BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF PREPARATION SO WITHIN THE REFORM WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE THAT THE CHAIN OF COMMAND, THE CAPITOL POLICE BOARD AND IF THERE'S ANY APPROVAL NEEDED FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, THAT'S VES TRANSPARENT.
LET'S TURN OUR ATTENTION TO THE $1.9 TRILLION COVID RELIEF BILL.
WIDE-RANGING THERE.
OWES MONEY FOR UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS AND FOR IMPROVING SCHOOL INFRASTRUCTURE AND PROVIDING PPE AND PROVISIONS, YOU KNOW, FOR CHILD CARE.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST WAY TOO COMPREHENSIVE FOR US TO GO INTO ALL THE DETAILS HERE SO I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT ELEMENTS OF THE BILL?
WELL, TAKING CARE OF THE ECONOMIC SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY SO THE EXTENSION OF UNEMPLOYMENT UNTIL SEPTEMBER IS GOING TO GET A LOT OF BREATHING ROOM MANY AND THE HELP FOR RENT AND UTILITIES, PEOPLE DON'T LOSE THEIR HOME, THE $1,400 PAYMENT TO HELP PEOPLE WEATHER THE STORM A LITTLE BIT HERE.
THOSE ARE REALLY THE CRITICAL PIECES OF THIS ENTIRE THING BECAUSE IT TAKES CARE IN MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE DON'T GO BANKRUPT, DON'T DESTROY THEIR CREDIT.
IF YOU'RE A, WORKING CLASS PERSON AND YOU DESTROY YOUR CREDIT, IT COULD TAKE SO OR IS A YEARS TO CLIMB OUT OF THAT AND WE WANT TO PREVENT THAT FROM HAPPENING.
IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A ROBUST RECOVERY THAT MEANS PEOPLE ARE SECURE, THEY ARE GOING TO GO BACK TO WORK AND HAVE A FEW PUCKS TO SPEND IT.
WE'LL NEED TO GET OUT TO THE BARS AND VENUES AND KEEP THINGS GOING AND THEN THE SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO GET A SHOT IN THE ARM WITH THIS THING.
I THINK WE'RE GOING TO COME OUT OF THIS THING STRONGER THAN WHEN WE WENT IN.
THE COMMUNITIES WILL HAVE HAD A LITTLE MONEY AND HOPE FLIP WE CAN GET A LITTLE WIND AT OUR BACK ON THE ECONOMY.
IS THE NUMBER RIGHT?
THERE ARE SOME DEMOCRATS IN THE SENATE THAT ARE SAYING THAT THE NUMBERS ARE JUST TOO BIG.
WHERE ARE YOU ON THAT?
I THINK IT'S JUST FINE.
I THINK $1.9 TRILLION IS A GOOD NUMBER.
IT'S A SOLID NUMBER.
YOU KNOW, I'M OLD ENOUGH AND GOT ENOUGH GRAY HAIR THAT I WAS AROUND IN 2009 WHEN WE DID A STIMULUS BILL AND AT THE TIME I WAS SAYING IT WASN'T BIG ENOUGH.
IT WASN'T BIG ENOUGH, AND THE ECONOMY DRAGGED ON, SLOW RECOVERY AROUND WAGES, AROUND THE WORKFORCE AND UNEMPLOYMENT DRAGGED ON BECAUSE WE DIDN'T MAKE THE INITIAL INVESTMENT ROBUST ENOUGH.
WE'RE NOT GOING TO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE HERE.
I THINK THAT WILL BE A GOOD NUMBER THAT WILL BE A GOOD SHOT IN THE ARM FOR THE RECOVERY AND HAVE THE KIND OF --
Reporter: SO THE TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT, RIGHT, AND ALL YOUR -- AND TWO SCHOOLS OF THOUGHT, FIX WHAT'S PROGRAM.
FOCUS ON WHAT'S HAPPENED AND THE OTHER SCHOOL OF FAULT IS WHY DIDN'T YOU FIX WHAT YOU DIDN'T LIKE TO BEGIN WITH.
THE WHOLE IDEA HERE IS TO HELP THE ECONOMY FOR EVERYBODY, AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY -- IT'S ABOUT PUBLIC HEALTH FOR SURE.
IT'S ABOUT VACCINATIONS AND TESTING AND ALL OF THOSE THINGS, BUT IT'S ALSO ABOUT AN ECONOMIC RECOVERY THAT EVERYONE CAN SHARE IN THAT RECOVERY AND THOSE ARE THE INVESTMENTS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN HERE, AND I THINK THEY ARE HAND IN GLOVE.
I DON'T SEE THOSE AS SEPARATE BECAUSE THE IDEA REALLY IS HOW DO WE HAVE AN ECONOMY THAT CAN THRIVE POST-PANDEMIC?
AND COMMUNITIES THAT CAN THRIVE, AND, YEAH, THE PANDEMIC DID NOM DAMAGE BUT THERE WAS A HECK OF A LOT OF DAMAGE BEFORE THE PANDEMIC EVER HIT AND THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO PLUG THESE COMMUNITIES IN, CLEAN THE COMMUNITIES UP AND ALLOW THEM TO PARTICIPATE IN THE WORK THAT'S TO COME.
IF YOU TAKE A STEP BACK, HOPEFULLY AFTER THIS WE HAVE A ROBUST FROM FROM BILL WHERE WE REALLY START TO HELP FAMILIES.
WE NEED TO TAKE JUST A FIRST STEP INTO THAT BY GETTING MONIES INTO THE LOCAL COMMUNITIES.
I THINK IT'S A FIRST STEP IN A BROADER PACKAGE TO REBUILD THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WHICH IS WHAT JOE BIDEN PROMISED HE WOULD DO AND IN THE COVID BILL HERE IS A DOWN PAYMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERY COMMUNITY CAN PARTICIPATE IN THAT.
AND THAT'S -- THIS HAS BEEN 30 YEARS.
I JUST GET A KICK OUT OF THESE, YOU KNOW, FOLKS WHO ARE SAYING LIKE THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PANDEMIC.
OKAY.
WE'VE GOT COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY LEFT BEHIND BY GLOBALIZATION, BY AUTOMATION, YOU KNOW, BUT INEQUALITY, BY A TERRIBLE TRADE AND TAX POLICIES THAT LEFT PEOPLE BEHIND AND THE GOVERNMENT HAD ABSOLUTELY NO RESPONSE TO HELP THEM.
THIS IS THE TIME TO REPAIR THAT, AND THIS COVID PACKAGE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
AND THE $15 MINIMUM WAGE, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN THERE?
WELL, THE PARLIAMENTARIAN IN THE SENATE HAS RULED THAT IT'S NOT GERMANE TO THE RECONCILIATION PROCESS, SO WE WILL COME BACK AND I THINK AT SOME POINT WE'LL HAVE A VOTE ON A $15 MINIMUM WAGE THAT WE SCALE UP.
I DO THINK WE HAVE TO BE SENSITIVE OF WHAT SMALL BUSINESSES ARE GOING THROUGH IN THE MIDDLE OF A PANDEMIC SO WE HAVE TO DO THIS OVER TIME SO IF THE IMAGINE WAS INDEXED PORE INFLUENCE SENSE 1968 IT WOULD BE $22 AN HOUR.
THE AVERAGE PERSON AND FAMILY HAVE REALLY FALLEN BEHIND AND THAT'S OUR ATTEMPT TO PLUG THEM BACK INTO THE GAME.
SO THE QUESTION I THINK FOR SOME PEOPLE IS WHERE'S THE SPINE OF THE DEMOCRATS?
YOU KNOW, WHEN THE DEMOCRATS DIDN'T LIKE THE RULING OF A SENATE PARLIAMENTARIAN THEY USED THEIR AUTHORITY TO REPLACE THE PARLIAMENTARIAN.
THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE IS THE VICE PRESIDENT COULD USE HER VOTE TO IGNORE THAT RULING AND SOME PEOPLE LOOK AT THAT AND SAY THAT THAT'S JUST NOT AN EXCUSE TO DO THAT.
IS THAT TRUE.
IS THAT AN EXECUTION NOT TO DO IT?
YOU'RE ASKING ME TO UNDERSTAND THE SENATE TRICKERIES THAT HAPPEN OVER THERE AND I DON'T.
I AGREE WE NEED TO PUSH AS HARD AS WE CAN FOR THIS.
I WOULD HOPE THAT EVEN IF IT'S NOT GERMANE TO THIS PARTICULAR PROCEDURE THAT WE SHOULD IMMEDIATELY BRING IT BACK AND HAVE A VOTE.
IT'S VOTED BY 60% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
I THINK IF YOU DO IT IN THE APPROPRIATE WAYS THAT ALLOWS FOR BUSINESSES TO ROLL IN.
I THINK SMALL BUSINESSES WILL BEGIN TO OBSERVE IT.
IF WALMART START PAYS $15 AND HOUR AND THE MOM AND POP SHOP UP THE STREET MAY HAVE A HANDFUL OF EMPLOYEES THAT THEY NOW HAVE TO PAY $15 AN HOUR.
A LOT MORE CONSUMERS WILL HAVE A LOT MORE MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS SO THAT THEY CAN GO TO THE MOM-AND-POSSIBLE SHOP.
SO I THINK THIS WILL BE -- THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SATURDAY THAT THE PERSON IS EMPLOYED AT THE EXPENSE OF THE UNEMPLOYMENT.
IT DOESN'T DO ANYTHING FOR THOSE WHO ARE ACTUALLY DISPLAYED, AND AS YOU POINTED OUT POLICE FORCES AND THAT'S THE BIGGEST CRISIS WHEN YOU HAVE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE STILL UNEMPLOYMENT, HOW DO YOU HELP THEM?
I THINK IF MORE PEOPLE HAVE MORE MONEY IN THEIR POX AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED AND ARE MAKING MORE MONEY, THEY NOW HAVE MORE MONEY TO SPEND.
PEOPLE MAKING 15 AN HOUR PRETTY MUCH SPEND EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE.
THERE'S NOT A LOT OF SAVINGS THERE.
THEY ARE GOING TO GO FROM 10 OR 11 AN HOUR TO 13, 14 OR 15 AND THAT'S MORE MONEY THAT THEY HAVE TO GO OUT AND SPEND IN THE ECONOMY WHICH WILL INCREASE DEMAND AND INCREASE EMPLOYMENT OVER TIME, AND I THINK THAT'S THE IMPORTANT THING TO DO.
AGAIN, THIS IS NOT -- I DON'T THINK -- I DON'T THINK THAT THE DEMOCRATIC INCREASE CAME DOWN TO THAT.
WE NEED AN INVESTMENT IN INFRASTRUCTURE.
WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE'RE BUILDING BATTERIES AND CHARGING SYSTEMS AND REALLY DOMINATING THE ECONOMY ECONOMY, AND WE'VE GOT TO HAVE.
THOSE JOBS PAY $20, $25, $30 AN HOUR AND THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO BE, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE MINIMUM WAGE.
WHAT JOE BIDEN AND HIS PEOPLE WANT TO DO IS REBUILD THAT MIDDLE CLASS AROUND THE FUTURE BUT FOR SOME PEOPLE, I THINK THE MINIMUM WAGE IS SORT OF A METAPHOR FOR THE DEMOCRATS' WILLINGNESS TO REALLY FIGHT FOR THINGS THAT THEY VIETNAM IN AND YOU CAN TELL AND YOU CAN SEE THE REPUBLICANS AND WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN AND THE ARGUMENT GOES THAT AT LEAST THEY ARE WILLING TO FIGHT FOR IT, WILLING TO TAKE IT TO THE MAT.
DO YOU THINK THAT THAT'S TRUE?
SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT THAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE.
DO YOU THINK THAT'S TRUE?
ELWELL, AGAIN, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE UNDERSTANDINGS OF THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE UNITED STATES SENATE BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HOLD UP THE COVID RELIEF BILL AND OTHER THOSE OTHER THINGS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT AND THAT WILL -- THAT PEOPLE IN THE COMING DAYS WILL LOSE THEIR ENLIMIT BENEFITS.
WE'VE GOT TO GET THE PACK MANY OUT THE DOOR.
IT WILL HELP MILLIONS OF PEOPLE WHO MISSED THEIR WENT PAYMENT AND DESTROY THEIR CREDIT AND ON AND ON.
IT'S YOU FROM THE TRACING IN WASHINGTON YOU'VE GOT ALL THESE ISSUES COMING AT YOU AT THE SAME TIME.
WHILE -- THERE'S NO REAP WE CAN'T PASS THE INCREASE IN THE MINIMUM WAGE AND IF WE -- WE CONTROL THE WHITE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND THE WHITE HOUSE, THERE SHOULD BE NO EXCUSE BUT TO BRING THAT BACK AND LET'S HELP EVERYBODY.
THE MOST TIMELY THING RIGHT NOW IS TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE WHO RUN EMPLOYED.
YOU'VE SAID SEVERAL TIMES YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE INNER WORKINGS OF THE SENATE.
WOULD YOU LIKE TO UNDERSTAND IT?
I'M INTERESTED IN LEARNING MORE ABOUT THIS.
WE'RE LOOKING VERY, VERY CLOSELY AT IT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK ANOTHER WORKING CLAES VOICE IN THE UNITED STATES IS NEEDED.
YOU MENTIONED THE ISSUE OF MINIMUM WAGE BUT THE MIDDLE CLASS, HEALTH CARE.
YOU KNOW, THERE SOO A LOT OF COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE BEEN FORGOTTEN IN THIS COUNTRY.
WILL THE.
I REALLY TAKE A LOT OF PRIDE I WAS -- I THINK THAT LEADERSHIP VOTE IS RECEIPTY, REALLY MISSING.
CONGRESSMAN WRONG.
THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.
THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
SOUND LIKE AN YES.
EARLIER WE SPOKE ABOUT THE SUCCESS OF COVID-19 VACCINES.
I GOT ONE TODAY AND I FEEL GREAT AND HOPE ALL OF YOU WILL AS WELL AND ALSO TAKE UP THE OFFER WHEN IT IS MADE.
IT IS SAFE AS WE REPORTED EARLIER.
IT CUTS THE RISK OF HOSPITALIZATION BY MORE THAN 80% AND NOW COMES NEWS THAT THE SAME BREAKTHROUGH TECHNOLOGY COULD UNLOCK NEW TREATMENTS FOR A RANGE OF DEADLY DISEASES LIKE MALARIA WHICH IS A LEADING KILLER OF CHILDREN AROUND THE WORLD.
REMEMBER, SAYS THEY HAVE -- THEY MAY HAVE CRACKED THE CODE AND USED AN APPROACH SIMILAR TO FIZZER AND MODERNA COVID-19 PROTOCOLS AND THEY ARE LOOKING AT DISEASES RANGING FROM CANCER TO CRICK KRILL WHICH MEANS THE PANE DEMOCRATIC ULTIMATELY MAY END UP SAVING MORE LIVES THAN IT TOOK.
WOULDN'T THAT BE GREAT.
THE THANKS FOR JOINING ME ON 'AMANPOUR.'