Mayor of Jackson, MS on the Water Crisis in His City

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: And turning now to the U.S. City of Jackson, Mississippi where Residents have been without running water for most of the past week. After flooding hit a treatment plant, thousands lost access to clean water and they had to rely on the bottle stop. There is some relief as water pressure has been restored and public schools have been reopened. To provide an update on the situation, Jackson mayor, Chokwe Antar Lumumba joins Michel Martin.

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MICHEL MARTIN, CONTRIBUTOR: Thanks, Christiane. Mayor Chokwe Antar Lumumba, thank you so much for joining us.

MAYOR CHOKWE ANTAR LUMUMBA (D-JACKSON, MS): Thank you for having me.

MARTIN: So, you are the mayor the state’s capital, largest city. As we understand it, last week, most residents, including yourself, had no running water. Certainly not enough to drink or wash their clothes, take care of necessities of life. What is the situation as we’re speaking now?

LUMUMBA: Well, fortunately, we have more positive news to report. Pressure has been restored to our residents with the exception of a few outlined cases that may have challenges at individual properties that are specific to that property. The next stage in the process would be for the Health Department to give the go-ahead for testing to resume. There are approximately 120 sites across the city that samples are pulled from. And if we get all 120 samples to come back clear for two consecutive days, then the boil water notice will be lifted. But I do want to say this, that we have been here before. We have been here two Februarys ago. We’ve had this challenge and we’ve restored pressure. We’ve been able to lift the boil water notices. But that in no regards means that it is mission accomplished. Until it we have significant funding to deal with the challenges for the three decades long of neglect and lack of investments in our water treatment facility, it is not a matter of if, but it’s a matter of when these systems will fail again. And so, for me, this is kind of the more dangerous timeframe. The timeframe where everyone, you know, is kind of in a sense of comfort and, you know, maybe even in a sense of complacency that it troubles me the most because I know just how threatened my residents are on an ongoing basis.

MARTIN: So, you’re saying, attention spans around the country are short on an issue like this, but this problem has such a long tail that — that part of it to be understood, that this isn’t kind of — just a momentary crisis, this is a long-standing — I don’t know. What would you call it? Tragedy, travesty? What would you describe that — sort of think about the long tail of this problem?

LUMUMBA: Well, I think it is a tragedy. I think is a tragedy that we all have our hands in. And, you know, aren’t truly revealing the best of what governance should look like. You know, my view is that when we have these things take place, it is humiliating to communities. And so, I call this a cycle of humiliation. And I think that the true scale by which we should grade our success and failure of cities and states as a nation is through the sustainable development goals we reach, through our ability to provide communities dignity. And so, our effort is to reveal a dignity economy. One that reflects the inherent dignity that every person should have. You know, you don’t see that when you go to, you know, bathe and you don’t have sufficient water. You don’t see that when you’re trying to cook and you are concerned with the quality of your water. You don’t see that when men, women, children, our elderly are suffering in one way or another, one facet or another under this challenge.

MARTIN: You are the mayor since 2017. Did — how much time did you say of yours as mayor has been preoccupied with providing basic services like water?

LUMUMBA: Well, we have lifted up in one form or another since we came in office this challenge, this need for a continuous line of funding in order to address, you know, the decay and, you know, the need for weatherization at our water treatment facility and in other infrastructure needs. Sometimes, it was manifested in terms of asking for an extension and are 1 percent sales tax, which was passed under my father’s administration, which the residents passed by more than 90 percent in order to tax themselves, to go towards these ongoing infrastructure woes. You know, what are residents have proven is that they’re willing to make the sacrifice in order see Jackson progress. We have to demonstrate that we’re willing to meet them and willing to sacrifice as well. And that shared sacrifice can lead to these changes. An ability to extend the sunset on that 1 percent sales tax was viewed early on as an opportunity to leverage those funds going forward for the critical repairs that are necessary now in our infrastructure. We’ve done it through direct legislative requests, specific to our water treatment facility. We are under an agreed order of consent from the EPA, which is a detailed document, right, which outlines all of the challenges, the significant challenges, at our water treatment facility has. We have presented that to the legislature. We have presented the need for funding in various forms. And the most we’ve ever received is about $3 million, towards J.H. Fuel, which is the older of our two water treatment facilities. But actually, the more reliable of the two. And J.H. Fuel serves downtown. And so, in essence, you know, we decided to support — or the legislature decided to support the funding to the water service that serves them and not the majority of our residents.

MARTIN: So, here’s what I hear you saying. What I hear you saying is that your capacity as a city to fund these projects yourself is limited, what I hear you saying is that those state legislator, which is dominated by Republicans, and your Democrat, and it’s also majority white, and your city’s majority black, and what I hear you saying is that you’re willing to take the steps as a city to take care of these problems yourselves but it’sbeyond your financial capacity to do so and that the state legislator — the state government, more broadly, has not been willing to give you the resources that you need to take care of the problem. Is that it? Is that it in essence?

LUMUMBA: Well, I think you surmised it well, and our record is clear on that. And I think that we can’t mistake, you know, an effort to come in and take over the system as an effort to support it. Because —

MARTIN: Is that what the states are offering to do now? Is the state offering to, threatening to — and I’m not sure which word you want to use to take over the governance of the water system? Is that what is in play at the moment?

LUMUMBA: Well, I’ll say that I have been, you know, calling that playbook out for a while now. And I will say that the governor, as recently as yesterday, said that that is an option that is still on the table. Right.

MARTIN: Is that — let me just ask you about that. I mean, you spoke about this, the whole situation being humiliating earlier, not just a — it is obviously a matter of basic health and well-being. having access to clean, reliable water is just a basic issue of health and well-being. But you also talked about how it’s humiliating to have to queue up to get bottled water in your home. It’s not being able to brush your teeth with water that comes out of the tap in the capital city of a state in the United States of America in the 21st century. But if the state is willing to take on that responsibility, if you argue that, you know, the state, in fact, bears responsibility here by denying appropriate resources to fix this problem along, what would be so wrong with that?

LUMUMBA: Well, first and foremost, I’m not absolving the state of any responsibility. The state has an obligation to the residents of Jackson because they are Mississippians like everyone else. I don’t want you to give me wrong in that regard. What I am saying is that an effort to take over the revenue, ultimately, right? And often siphon off that revenue that should go to repairs that Jackson residents need, will lead them into a deeper cycle of humiliation and take them from one state of misery to the next, right? And so, I think that there should be consistent funding to help support. In fact, what we are asking for is often more of our own tax revenue in order to go towards these challenges. And so, you know, where I am making the clarification is, is there can be dedicated resources to help support the system versus decisions to take over the system that is more geared toward how you profit off of it rather than how you support it. And I think we have to know that there is extensive history and extensive literature on the threats of privatization on poor communities. Communities that — the affordability of our water treatment or our water billing is already a major concern for our residents. And when corporations get involved like that, when the residents don’t have the determination or the ability to decide who leads them and who makes decisions over, you know, what the cost of certain services are, then it could potentially serve to harm them worse where they can’t, you know, afford the water that they so justly deserve.

MARTIN: Mr. Mayor, let me clarify this. I think many people are aware that there is an infrastructure bill that was passed by the Congress signed by President Biden earlier. Under the bill, as my understanding, the State of Mississippi received $75 million to upgrade drinking water systems across the state. An additional $429 million is to become available over the next five years. So, have you received any of that money? Has any of that money been allocated?

LUMUMBA: I have spoken directly to the president. And he — upon the passage of that, talked about what his hopes were for Jackson to receive out of that. That I’ve talked to the administrator of the EPA and he talked about where their intent was for Jackson to receive its fair share of that. And I have talked to Mitchell Andrew Bizzarro (ph), the infrastructure bill itself, who has talked about what his desires were for Jackson within the federal funding. So, what we are talking about is money that was intended for Jackson that is yet to reach our hands. So, you know, there have been things that have said — that they have said, well, we don’t have a plan from Jackson. Well, one, that’s not accurate. We’ve given different legislative requests and told him what we wanted to commit it to. We have presented the EPA’s list of priorities, which is an exhaust document that highlights the critical needs of the water treatment facility. And lastly, the state created a portal which requires that through the ARPA Funding, that all cities make their request through the portal. That portal only opened up earlier this month, which was merely a few days ago. Now, when we talk about the challenges or our concerns, Jackson, Mississippi is the only city in the state that through that legislation that requires that we use this portal to make our request that has a duplicitous process. Not only do we have to request funds through the Mississippi Department of Environmental Quality, we then as the only city in the state have to make an application through DFA, the Department of Finance and Administration, which certainly doesn’t know anything about water treatment or, you know, the validity of the process projects. And so, you know, we have to ask questions, why outline a separate and distinct for Jackson, which has not been guilty, at least under this administration, of any misappropriation of funds, of not putting things towards the absolute necessary projects that we have to take on?

MARTIN: So, what’s the answer? You’ve asked the question. Why is there a special process for Jackson? What is the answer?

LUMUMBA: Well, I think that Jackson is treated unfairly. I think that it is political. And I think that when we’re talking about water to people, to businesses, this isn’t the time for politics. And, you know, as I’ve said, it’s not a Democrat or Republican thing, this is a human thing.

MARTIN: You know, I have to ask. You know, Mayor, I can’t help but notice, you’ve avoided using some of the terms that some of the outside analysts looking at this have used, like systemic racism. I mean, that’s not a word that I’ve heard you say. Those are words that I had heard you say, and I can see why. I mean, you still have to work with the governor and the state legislature who have control of your financing opportunities, who have to intercede with the federal government on your behalf. I know you talked to President Biden — or rather President Biden called you to check in on, you know, the situation there. But this is not just — this is obviously a health crisis and — but it’s also political crisis. What do you do in this situation where clearly, there are people who are going to want to hear you say, this is racism, this is just racism? And I’m just interested in how you’re thinking about that.

LUMUMBA: Yes. Well, I don’t know that the moment requires me to state the obvious, right? And — you know, and this moment, I have to be centered on what collaboration can take place to ensure the best condition for my residents. And so, that’s where I have to principally be aligned at this moment. But there is an extensive record of what I said and what I have lifted up regarding this challenge. And so, my residents know who I am. They know that I am not bashful about stating those facts and being clear there. And so, it would only take, you know, just a short review of articles and, you know, certain interviews to know that I have not been shy about saying what needed to be said in that moment. And so, in the moment, we weren’t receiving support in a moment where, you know, repeated requests from our legislature were being denied, in a moment where, you know, instead of listening to our infrastructure requests, one state leader said, look, let’s talk about you giving up the airport and we can talk about the rest. You know, I stated what that was. I talked about the nature of what Jackson residents were facing in this moment, when I had them at the table, then it doesn’t serve me nor does it, more importantly, serve residents of Jackson for me to be, you know, focusing on what they haven’t been and, you know, what my issues with them are. I want to encourage them to remain. I want them to realize that the Jackson residents are worthy of dependable and sustainable and equitable water treatment.

MARTIN: So, before we let you go, Mayor, just two more questions. When do you see full water service being restored to Jackson? Water that people can actually drink, use and bathe in.

LUMUMBA: Well, you know, based on the reports that I’m getting and — we are optimistic. You know, while I can’t say with all certainty, we do believe, however, that it will be this week. We believe that by Wednesday of this week we could potentially see the water not only the pressure having been restored, but the boil water notice being lifted. That is our optimistic timeline. But there are other factors that could come into play that could delay that. And so, we have to, you know, reserve making that declaration.

MARTIN: The water crisis in Flint, Michigan which spawned criminal investigations, public officials’ resignations, there was a class action settlement of more than $600 million. What does accountability look like here?

LUMUMBA: Well, I think accountability, in its simplest form, is making sure that we can all look ourselves in the mirror and say that we have done everything that we could to improve Jackson’s water treatment distribution system, from me on up to the president. And when I say the water distribution system, I’m not only talking at the water treatment facility and all of its necessary and critical repairs, I’m talking about from that water treatment facility to the point of use. The City of Jackson, unfortunately, will become, you know, a part of a longer and more frequent narrative of communities that are under invested in, that have critical infrastructure needs that need to be addressed. At the same time, we have a waste water system, we have a stormwater system, we have roads and bridges infrastructure that needs to be addressed, and that is part and parcel of what we’re seeing across the country.

MARTIN: Mayor Lumumba, thanks so much for talking with us.

LUMUMBA: Thank you.