Neal Katyal Gives the Case for Impeachment

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: Neal Katyal, you just heard what is likely to be the president’s defense, that neither bribery has been proved, neither high crimes nor misdemeanors, and this call was a perfect call, according to the president and his defenders. What would your comeback to that be based on facts?

NEAL KATYAL: So, heavens me, if that’s what we just heard as the defense of President Trump, I think he’s in serious trouble. And I wrote the book to explain why because it’s a simple, just 150-page book, which explains what Trump did and why it is so bad. And it begins with the notion of what’s impeachment about, it’s about when the president puts his personal interest above those of the American people, that Pence standard that you’re referring to. And then you ask —

AMANPOUR: That was important, it was, the Pence? That he could say, oh, that was in 2008 and I don’t believe that anymore.

KATYAL: Exactly. And then you ask yourself, and I think Jenna should ask herself this question, if President Obama did all of this, would you be saying all this legal gobbledygook about burden shifting and this and that? Heck no. There’s no way the American people would stand for it if it were — if it was a president of the other party. So, I think everyone’s got to just to ask, this about the rule of law and we’re going to have different presidents. And if we say this is OK, I need a favor, though, in holding up aid and asking a foreign government to get dirt on your political rival, that’s cheating in an election. That’s quintessentially what impeachment is about. And, you know, she says, oh, there are no first-hand witnesses to it. Well, first of all, President Trump’s own guys, like Ambassador Sondland, did say this is what happened. But to the extent there aren’t those firsthand witnesses is because of a simple reason, the president has issued an unprecedented gag order barring every executive branch employee from going and testifying or giving documents, r e-mails or anything. He looks like he has something to hide.

AMANPOUR: In that case, do you believe — oh, there are a couple of questions that you brought up and that Jenna brought up. Number one, this is not — she believes this is a legal process and not entirely a political process. What do you think?

KATYAL: A hundred percent right. And, you know, the one thing I agree with her, she said you can’t impeach a president simply because the opposition party wants to oust them.

AMANPOUR: Right. Precisely.

KATYAL: I would be the first person to say absolutely not. Our founders would be, as well. If she thinks that’s what this is about, I think she’s living in some alternative fact and reality.

AMANPOUR: But interestingly, you said what would happen if the shoe was on the other foot and if you did this or didn’t or did do this now, what would it mean for President (INAUDIBLE)? It’s exactly what President Trump has said, if we allow this to happen to me, what will it mean for presidents down the line. This could just open a whole can of worms.

KATYAL: Yes. I mean, God, you know, presidents won’t be able to go and get secret help from foreign governments to help them in their reelection campaigns. You know, yes, the president’s hands will be tied in that specific way and I think every American should want that.