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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
ISRAEL KEEPS UP ATTACKS ON LEBANON AND GAZA.
AS THE DEATH TOLL RISE, NETANYAHU.
I WILL HAVE AN UM DATE.
THEN -- >> WHO SHE REALLY IS.
THE WORLD NEEDS TO KNOW THE TRUTH.
>> DISCLAIMER.
A PSYCHOLOGICAL THRILLER STARS CATE BLANCHETT.
I SIT DOWN WITH THE ACT STRESS.
>> THE COURT DEPENDS ON THE FAITH THAT HAS REROADED.
>> A NEW TERM STARTS FOR SCOTUS.
TELLING HARI SVEENIVASAN WHY THIS SUPREME COURT IS HIS OWN WORST ENEMY.
♪♪ ♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
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JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS SEND A FORMAL LETTER TO THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT DEMANDING THAT IT IMPROVE THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION IN GAZA WITHIN 30 DAYS OR RISK MILITARY ASSISTANCE.
THAT MOVE COMES AS THE UNITED NATIONS SAYS ISRAEL IS LEAVING PALESTINIANS NO ACCESS TO FOOD.
THE U.N. IS WARNING THAT ISRAEL MAY BE CARRYING OUT THE LARGE SCALE FORCED TRANSFER OF THE CIVILIAN POPULATION.
MEANWHILE, PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU SAYS THAT ISRAEL WILL CONTINUE TO HIT LEBANON INCLUDING THE CAPITAL, BEIRUT.
ISRAELI OFFICIALS HAVE TOLD THE U.S. THAT A COUNTER STRIKE WILL TARGET IRANIAN MILITARY RATHER THAN OIL OR MILITARY SITES.
FOR PEOPLE IN GAZA, THE HUMAN PAIN IS IN ORDER TO ESCAPE.
THE REPORT ON THE HOSTAGES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND THE PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND CIVILIANS CHILLED AND GRUESOMELY INJURED.
>> Reporter: TRAPPED IN THE NIGHTMARE THAT IS GAZA ARE THE INNOCENT WHO DID NOT CHOOSE THIS WAR.
AND TIME IS RUNNING OUT TO LIVE THEIR LIVES.
THIS PERSON TURNED 84 IN CAPTIVITY.
THE GREAT GRANDFATHER WAS SHORT WITH AN INVASION TO HIS HOME.
HE WAS SEPARATED FROM HIS WIFE OF MORE THAN 60 YEARS.
THIS 86-YEAR-OLD WAS ALSO ABDUCTED, THROWN IN THE BACK OF A MOTOR BIKE BEFORE BEING RELEASED DAYS LATER FROM HAMAS.
MORE THAN A YEAR, SHARON HASN'T STOPPED FIGHTING FOR THE RELEASE OF HER FATHER AND OTHER HOSTAGES.
>> WE ARE SO EXHAUSTED AND HEART BROKEN AGAIN AND AGAIN.
>> THE HOPES FOR A CEASE-FIRE DEAL THAT COULD SECURE THE RELEASE OF HOSTAGES SHATTERED OVER AND OVER AGAIN, AND NOW WITH ISRAEL'S NEW WAR IN LEBANON, THE WORLD'S ATTENTION APPEARS TO BE SHIFTING.
IT IS, FOR ALL INVOLVED, A RACE AGAINST TIME.
>> WE ARE LOSING THIS RACE.
ANYONE IN HISTORY SEES PEOPLE THAT ARE CAUGHT IN THE TIDE OF TIME, AND THE POLITICAL MILITARY FRENATICAL CLAIMS.
>> Reporter: HUMAN LIVES TURNED INTO POLITICAL PAWNS WITH NO ESCAPE IN THIS HELL ON EARTH.
WHERE LIFE HAS BECOME A SLOW DEATH FOR THOSE WHO SURVIVED THE DEVASTATING BOMBARDMENT.
A STRIKE LEFT THIS 14 YARLD WITH BURNS ON HIS BODY, AND LEFT DOCTORS WITH VERY LITTLE TO SAVE LIVES WITH NOT ENOUGH SUPPLIES TO STERILIZE WOUNDS.
WHEN WE WERE WITH HIM, HIS WOUND WAS FILLED WITH MAGGOTS IN HIS DRESSINGS.
A WEEK LATER, HE DIED.
IT WAS TOO LATE FOR HIM.
BUT THOUSANDS OF OTHERS IN NEED OF MEDICAL EVACUATION COULD BE SAVED.
BUT ONLY A FRACTION OF THEM HAVE BEEN ALLOWED OUT BY ISRAELI AUTHORITIES.
THIS ONE CAN BARELY FEED AND BREATHE.
A GROWING TUMOR IS CON PRESSING HIS TINY HEART.
HIS MOTHER STRUGGLES TO HOLD IT TOGETHER.
AS SHE TRIES TO COMFORT HER BOY.
TODAY HE'S GOING IN SURGERY TO TRY TO SAVE HIS LIFE BECAUSE HE CAN'T BE EVACUATED, SHE SAYS.
I JUST WANT MY SON TO GET BETTER IN THERE.
ARE NO SPECIALISTS AVAILABLE IN GAZA, AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE MEDICAL EQUIPMENT THEY NEED.
THE DOCTORS SAY THEY HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO OPERATE TO TRY TO KEEP HIM ALIVE.
THESE ARE CHILDREN.
THEY'RE NOT CARRYING WEAPONS, THEY SAY.
WHY CAN'T HE BE EVACUATED?
AGAINST ALL ODDS, THE 4-MONTH-OLD MADE IT THROUGH THE SURGERY, AND LIVED ON BARROWED TIME.
AND A MONTH LATER, HE IS SUFFERING FROM WEIGHT LOSS, VOMITING, DIARRHEA.
HER MOTHER IS PLEADING FOR TREATMENT ABROAD.
LIVES THAT CAN SAVED WITH A DEAL, IF ONLY THERE IS POLITICAL WILL.
MORE THAN 100 HOSTAGES ARE STILL HELD IN GAZA.
THE ISRAELI MILITARY MISTAKENLY KILLING THREE OF THEM.
AND IN RECENT WEEKS, HAMAS EXECUTED SIX HOSTAGES AS ISRAELI FORCES CLOSED IN.
>> THESE WERE YOUNG PEOPLE THAT HAD EVERY CHANCE OF SURVIVAL AND HAD SURVIVED ALMOST A YEAR.
IT'S HEART BREAKING.
IT'S A FAILURE.
WE HAVE BEEN IN THE BURNING HOUSE SINCE THE 7th OF OCTOBER.
AND WE HAVE BEEN SCREAMING AND THE FLAMES ARE RISING.
AND THEY ARE GOING TO CONSUME MORE AND MORE PEOPLE.
WE HAVE BEEN SAYING A MILITARY PRESSURE IS KILLING THE HOSTAGES.
>> Reporter: A MAN WHO LONG BELIEVED IN PEACE WHICH SEEMS LIKE A DREAM MORE THAN OTHER.
>> MY FATHER USED TO DRIVE PALESTINIANS FROM THE BORDNER GAZA TO HOSPITALS IN ISRAEL AND THE BEST BANK.
AND I THINK THERE IS A LESSON IN IT.
AND HOW DO WE SHARE IN HUMANITY.
>> Reporter: IF YOUR FATHER CAN HEAR YOU NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TO HIM?
>> FORGIVE US.
FORGIVE US.
WE HAVE TRIED SO HARD.
WE HEARD YOUR VOICE IN OUR HANDS.
AND AS WE TRY WHAT WE CAN, WE TRY THE WAY HE TRIED ALL HIS LIFE.
HE TRIED FOR MANY YEARS TO AVOID THIS DISASTER, AND IT'S BEFALLING US.
I HEAR HIM NOW SAYING WORK FOR PEACE.
WORK FOR THE POSSIBILITY OF HUMANS IN THIS REGION TO LIVE TOGETHER.
>> PLEAS FOR PEACE.
EVEN A CEASE-FIRE SEEM TO BE FALLING ON DEFER EARS RIGHT NOW, AND THE STRATEGY INTEND GAME FOR THE YARLD.
AHAS YADIN WAS A FIGHTER PILOT FOR MORE THAN THREE DECADES.
HE IS JOINING ME NOW FROM NEAR TEL AVIV.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
LET ME START ASKING YOU ABOUT WHAT WE JUST HEARD IN THAT REPORT, BOTH ISRAELI HOSTAGE FAMILIES AND PALESTINIAN CHILDREN AND CIVILIANS ARE SUFFERING DESPERATELY IN GAZA.
WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE UNITED STATES, YOUR VONGEST ALLY, SENDING THAT LETTER TO YOUR GOVERNMENT, TELLING THEM THEM MUST SEND IN HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE?
>> I WILL SAY THE FOLLOWING.
THIS WAR WAS STARTED BY THE LEADER OF THE TERRIBLE ORGANIZATION HAMAS IN GAZA.
AND HE COULD STOP IT SIX MONTHS PAY GO WHEN PRESIDENT BIDEN PUT FORWARD A PROPOSAL FOR A CEASE-FIRE IN EXCHANGE OF THE HOSTAGES, AND CONCESSIONS FROM ISRAEL.
WE HAVE TO REMEMBER ALSO THAT GAZA IS NOT THE ONLY WAR.
THEY HOPE VERY MUCH THAT THE AXIS OF EVIL LED BY IRAN WOULD JOIN.
IN IRAQ, AND FINALLY, IRAN STRAIGHT, DIRECTED MISSILES ATTACKED ISRAEL.
SO GAZA WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, IT'S A STRATEGY, YES.
IT'S A HUMAN TRAGEDY.
BUT WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHO CAUSED IT AND WHO IS NOT ENABLING ALL OF US TO STOP IT.
>> OKAY.
>> WE ARE NOW -- THE FOCUS IS NOW ON IRAN.
BECAUSE WE ARE WAITING FOR THE RETALIATION OF ISRAEL, TRYING TO DETER IRAN FROM DOING WHAT IT DID.
200 BALLISTIC MISSILES HIT ISRAEL ON OCTOBER 1 RS.
IT'S SOMETHING THAT NO COUNTRY IN THE WORLD WOULD TOLERATE.
SO ISRAEL WILL HAVE TO REACT.
AND NOW THERE IS A DIALOGUE WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ABOUT IMPORTANT, ONCE AGAIN S IRAN.
THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WANTS VERY MUCH THAT ISRAEL NOT ATTACK THE ENERGY SECTOR IN IRAN OR THE NUCLEAR.
SO ISRAEL MAY REACT ON A MORE LIMITED TARGET.
THE MILITARY, THAT WILL ATTACK, TIT FOR TAT.
AND WITH MORE DEFENSE FROM MISSILES, AND AN ARMY, ANTI-BALLISTIC MISSILE SYSTEM LANDING IN ISRAEL AS WE SPEAK.
MORE IMPORTANT, THE TERROR ORGANIZATION ATTACKED ISRAEL FOR 11 MONTHS.
60,000 PEOPLE LEFT THEIR HOMES WITHOUT ANY PROVOCATION, AND THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT DECIDED FINALLY TO MOVE FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH.
GAZA.
AND IN A VERY BRILLIANT INTELLIGENCE AND AIR FORCE OPERATION, DESTROY MOST OF HE HAS HEZBOLLAH'S CAPABILITY, AND THE FORCES AT THE BORDER WANTED TO DO EXACTLY WHAT HAMAS HAS DONE.
WHICH IS A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION ATTACK, NOT MILITARY.
TERRORISTS.
SO WE ARE FIGHTING NOW.
AND THE U.S. IS ASKING ISRAEL TO -- NOT TO ATTACK BEIRUT, BECAUSE THERE IS AN ISSUE THERE OF FUGITIVES AND CIVILIANS AND ISRAEL IS LISTENING.
>> YOU MADE IT CLEAR THAT ISRAEL IS LISTENING WHEN IT COMES TO BEIRUT.
I WANT TO GO POINT BY POINT.
YOU LINKED THEM ALL.
YOUR GOVERNMENT HAVE SAID THERE IS A RING OF FIRE THEY WANT TO EXTINGUISH AROUND THE COUNTRY.
SO DO YOU AGREE WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION AND WITH APPARENTLY THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT HAS TOLD THE ADMINISTRATION THAT THEY WON'T ATTACK THE NUCLEAR SIDES?
PARTICULARLY THE ONES THAT IS -- THEY PROBABLY WOULDN'T GET TO ANY WAY, AND THEY WON'T ATTACK THE OIL INFRASTRUCTURE BUT THEY WILL GO AFTER THE MILITARY TARGETS LIKE BALLISTIC MISSILES OR WHATEVER THAT ATTACKED YOUR COUNTRY.
DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT STRATEGY?
>> I THINK YOU FIRST HAVE TO LOOK AT THE STRATEGIC END GAME.
WHAT IS THE STRATEGIC END GAME AGAINST IRAN?
THEN WHEN YOU UNDERSTAND IT, YOU GO BACKWARDS TO THE NEXT MOVE.
AND I THINK THE STRATEGIC END GAME IS IRAN, TO GO TO THE HEAD OF THE OCTOPUS.
BECAUSE IRAN IS THE SOURCE OF ALL THE TURBULENCE IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
AND THEY SUPPORTED -- THE SHIA MILITIA IN IRAQ.
IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENT BEHAVIOR OF THIS REGIME, YOU SHOULD PLAN FOR -- IT CANNOT BE DONE IN ONE ATTACK.
I THINK BY NOW, BEFORE THE ELECTION, IT IS MAKING SENSE TO SCALE DOWN THE ATTACK.
BUT IT SHOULD BE CALIBRATED TO A LEVEL THAT IRAN WILL THINK TWICE ABOUT RETALIATION.
BECAUSE THEN WE ARE GOING TO -- FOOL AROUND AFTER -- AND IT CAN COME -- BECOME A FULL-SCALE WAR.
IN THIS CASE, I THINK ISRAEL WILL NEED THE SUPPORT AND THE COORDINATION WITH THE U.S. AND BEFORE YOU SEE THIS COORDINATION, GOING ALL THE WAY BETTER START LOW.
>> OKAY, SO I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY -- I'M JUST GOING TO SAY THIS BECAUSE I SAID THAT YOU HAVE BEEN A FIGHTER PILOT FOR MANY DECADES.
AND YOU ARE PROBABLY ONE OF ONLY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WHO ACTUALLY TOOK ACTION TO DESTROY THE REACTOR IN IRAQ WHEN SADDAM HUSSEIN WAS TRYING TO BUILD A NUCLEAR REACTOR AND THERE WAS A SYRIAN THAT WAS TRYING TO BE BUILT AND YOU WERE IN THAT.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL ALONE CAN DISABLE AND KNOCK OUT THE FORDO ENRICHMENT SITE THAT IS DEEP IN THE MOUNTAIN THERE.
DO YOU THINK ISRAEL CAN DO IT THERE?
>> CHRISTIANE, WE WILL NOT DISCUSS THE ISRAEL ATTACK ON CNN, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT.
FIRST, ISRAEL HAVE SAID THEY HAVE NOTHING THAT SEEMS TO BE IMPOSSIBLE.
NO, NEVER UNDER ESTIMATE THE ISRAELI ADMINISTRATION AND THE ISRAELI SURPRISE MOVES.
YOU HAVE TO THINK THAT ISRAEL HAS DECIDED NOT AN ISRAEL ORDER.
IT IS NOT A MILITARY TASK.
IT COULD BE ACHIEVED BY AGREEMENT.
MAYBE BY SOFT POWER LIKE CYBER.
IT CAN BE ACHIEVED BY A DIFFERENT REGIME.
BECAUSE WE ARE SLEEPING VERY GOOD AT NIGHT.
IN INDIA, THERE IS NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
AND ISRAEL SHOULD BE WIPED OFF THE MAP, THEY SAID.
SO THERE ARE MANY STRATEGIES TO DEAL WITH IT.
BUT ISRAEL CANNOT TOLL LATE AN IRANIAN NUCLEAR WAR.
>> IF I HAVE TO SAY IN ONE WORD -- >> GO AHEAD.
>> THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION IS YES.
>> WELL, YOU'RE IN THE MINORITY, GENERAL.
MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT ONLY THE UNITED STATES HAS THE WEAPONS AND MECHANISM TO DO THAT.
BUT YOU KNOW A LOT, I GUESS.
YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT STRATEGY.
AND MANY OF YOUR ALLIES INCLUDING AMBASSADOR DENNIS ROSS, QUESTIONING THE STRATEGY.
HERE IS WHAT DENNIS ROSS SAID.
ISRAEL HAS DESTROYED THE MILITARY.
HEZBOLLAH HAS LOST ITS LEADERSHIP, COMMAND, CONTROL, AND MOST OF THE MISSILES.
BUT MILITARY ACHIEVEMENTS ARE NOT ENDS IN THEMSELVES.
THEY MUST PRODUCE POLITICAL OUTCOMES.
ISRAEL NEEDS THAT NOW MUCH THE POLITICAL ECHELON ISN'T DOING ENOUGH WORK HOW TO CONCLUDE THIS ISSUE.
I FEEL OUR SUCCESSES CAN BE UNDONE.
HE MEANS THE WHOLE THING.
GAZA, IRAN, LEBANON.
>> I CANNOT AGREE MORE.
I SPENT 40 YEAR NSS THE MILITARY IN UNIFORM, I THINK EVERY MILITARY MOVE HAS A POLITICAL END.
I GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE IN THE NORTH.
THE NORTH IS THE MOST BRIGHT EXAMPLE.
DUE TO THE FACT THAT HEZBOLLAH WAS ATTACKED LIKE WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE, ALL THE LEADERSHIP WAS DECAPITATED OR THE BALLISTIC ROCKETS.
THEY WANTED TO HAVE HUNDREDS OF THEM IN TEL AVIV EVERY NIGHT ARE GONE.
IT IS TIME TO CHANGE AND TO REACH A DIFFERENT POLITICAL GOAL IN THE NORTH.
AND LET ME GO TO FOUR THINGS QUICKLY.
LEBANON WILL AGAIN BE A STATE NOT CONTROLLED BY ERROR ORGANIZATIONS.
HEZBOLLAH, MUCH LIKE IT WAS DONE WITH THE SYRIANS.
SECOND N AND YOU CAN MAKE SURE THAT ACCORDING TO THE UNS SECURITY COUNCIL, HEZBOLLAH IS NOT IN THE SOUTH, AND THEY WILL BE DISARMED.
THEN ISRAEL WILL CHANGE ITS POSITION.
ISRAEL LET HAMAS BE WITH A MILITARY.
IT'S AGAINST OUR DOCTRINE, THE DEFENSE DOCTRINE, AND ISRAEL AND THE U.S., IF HE IS BOLL LA GOES DOWN, ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT.
THEN YOU SAW THE ISSUE -- THEY CAN DO IT WITH GAZA.
I THINK ISRAEL HAS A STRONG CARD.
AGREEING TO STOP THE WAR.
IN THE SOUTH, IN THE NORTH, AND IRAN.
BUT ON ITS TERMS, ONIST TERMS.
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IS LURKING IN MY GOVERNMENT AND I HOPE THEY WILL CHANGE THEIR MIND AFTER THE ELECTION.
>> VERY, VERY QUICK.
LAST QUESTION.
IT'S BEFORE MORE THAN A YEAR SINCE THE ATTACK ON OCTOBER 7th AND ISRAEL'S COUNTER OFFENSIVE IN GAZA.
NOW, THEY EXPANDED THE WAR.
BUT GAZA IS NOT FINISHED YET, AND THE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION AND LACK OF HOSTAGES COMING OUT, DOESN'T IT WORRY THAW EVEN GAZA HASN'T ACCOMPLISHED WHAT YOUR GOVERNMENT WANTS TO DO, AND NOW THERE ARE OTHER FRONTS.
>> THIS IS THE ADVISE I GIVE MY GOVERNMENT.
YOU CAN REACH AN AGREEMENT TO END THE WAR FOR ALL OF THE HOSTAGES IN ONE PIECE.
ALL OF THEM, AND THEN YOU ACHIEVE YOUR GOALS.
IF HAM MAZZ WOULD DARE COME WITH MILITARY FORCE, THIS IS THE RIGHT MOVE.
IT SPEAKS TO THE HUMAN MORAL OBLIGATIONS.
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH INDEED.
>>> NOW, THE AWARD-WINNING ACT STRESS CATE BLANCHETT IS KNOWN FOR TAKING ON A RANGE OF ROLES WITH STUNNING SUCCESS.
NOW, SHE'S STEPPING IN A PSYCHOLOGICAL THRILLER STARRING IN ALFONSO CUARON'S SHOW "DISCLAIMER QULTS".
>> YOU HAVE CONCEALED PARTS OF YOURSELF FROM THE WORLD.
>> IT INSPIRES ME EVERY DAY.
>> YOU KEEP EVERYONE IN THE DARK TO MAINTAIN A BALANCE.
AND YOU THINK YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED.
>> A DISCLAIMER OF MY OWN, I MAKE A CAMEO APPEARANCE IN THE FIRST EPISODE WHICH WE DISCUSSED WHEN I SAT DOWN WITH THEM.
CATE BLANCHETT, ALFONSO CUARON, THANK YOU FOR SITTING DOWN.
THE MOVIE --LY CALL IT MOVIE.
WHAT WAS IT LIKE SHOOTING DEV L SEVEN DIFFERENT MOVIES.
SO LONG, AND COMPLEX.
>> IT WAS DIVIDED IN SECTIONS.
AND ALFONSO, YOU SPOKE ABOUT IT.
WE TALK ABOUT OUR FAVORITE PIECE.
AND YOU WERE SAYING YOU DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HOW TO STRUCTURE TELEVISION, WITH CLIFF HANGERS AND -- BEING DRIVEN BY NARRATIVE REALLY.
AND YOU WERE INTERESTED IN THE RHYTHMIC AND TONAL SENSE.
>> YOU ARE AN OLD HAND AT TELEVISION.
BUT HUH NEVER DONE A TV SERIES.
>> NEVER, NEVER.
>> AND NEVER AGAIN?
DON'T SAY THAT.
AND YOU DECIDED NOT CALL IT A SERIES.
NOT TO CALL IT EPISODES.
IT IS CHAPTERS ON OF WHAT LOOKS TO ME LIKE A MOVIE.
IT'S LIKE A MOVIE.
>> WELL, I THINK IT'S UP TO THE VIEWERS TO DECIDE HOW THEY WANT TO CALL IT.
THE FACT IS THAT I HAVE NEVER DONE TELEVISION.
I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE -- DO TELEVISION, AND I'M NOT SAYING IT WITH PRIDE.
I THINK IT'S A SKILL I DON'T HAVE.
THERE'S A CERTAIN SKILL TO SHOOTING VERY FAST AND LET GO.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S IN MY DNA.
>> THIS TOOK A LONG TIME.
>> THIS TOOK A LONG TIME.
>> A YEAR OF SHOOTING?
>> IT FELT LIKE A YEAR.
SHOULD WE SAY THAT?
IT'S A VERY, VERY INTENSE STORY, AS PEOPLE WHO STAY WITH IT -- WITH THE FILM, IF YOU WANT TO CALL IT, TO THE VERY END.
OR SEVEN PARTS OR CHAPTERS OF IT.
THEY WILL EXPERIENCE THAT INTENSITY.
IT'S A VERY -- YEAH, IT'S AN INTENSE, LONG TIME.
>> SO LETS START ALMOST IN THE BEGINNING.
THE FILM OPENS WITH A -- ESPECIALLY A SEX SCENE, TWO YOUNG PEOPLE IN THE BEGINNING AND THEN SEEMS TO COME THE CLUE AND THE CUE FOR THE MOVIE.
AND FULL DISCLOSURE, I WAS VERY PROUD TO BE PLAYING MYSELF.
YOU ASKED ME TO DO THAT.
>> FELLOW THESPIAN.
>> THIS IS WHAT I SAY AT THE BEGINNING.
>> THE RECIPIENT HAS CUT THROUGH THE NARRATIVES AND FORMS THAT DISTRACT US FROM HIDDEN TRUTHS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE MOST DIFFICULT CONTEMPORARY ISSUES ALLOWING US AN UNFLINCHING LOOK AT HER SUBJECTS AS THEY REALLY ARE.
WHAT ARE WE THE VIEWERS MEANT TO TAKE FROM THAT SPEECH?
BECAUSE IT'S NOT OBVIOUS.
IT'S NOT OBVIOUS, YOU KNOW, UNTIL MUCH LATER.
>> WELL, THE PROGRAM IS CALLED "DISCLAIMER" AND IT IS A DISCLAIMER OF SORTS.
AND I THINK THAT WE'RE LIVING IN -- IT WANTS A CLICHE IN A POST TRUTH WORLD, AND WE'RE VERY CONCERNED.
THERE ARE MANY WARS GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD, AND CONFLICTS.
BUT THE CONFLICT THAT IS NOT DISCUSSED IS THE CONFLICT OF THE NARRATIVE, AND WHO GETS TO CONTROL THIS NARRATIVE, AND IT'S A QUEST TO HAVE A SIMPLE TRUTH.
AND IT'S SAYING, IN YOUR -- COMING OUT OF YOUR MOUTH IN THE BEGINNING, THINGS ARE NOT WHAT THEY SEEM.
BUT IT'S -- AND YOU ARE GOING TO BE TOLD A STORY IN A WAY THAT PERHAPS YOU'RE NOT ENTIRELY IN CONTROL OF.
WHEN WE DO THINK AND DEMAND TO BE IN CONTROL OF OUR OWN NARRATIVE.
>> AND YET, ALFONSO, EVEN WITH THAT CLUE IN THE BEGINNING, CERTAINLY I, AS I WATCHED SEVEN CHAPTERS, YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW -- I MEAN, YOU'RE NOT GIVING US ALL THE CLUES THROUGHOUT.
OR IF YOU ARE, THEY ARE SKILLFUL AND SUBTLE.
BECAUSE THE END, WHICH WE WILL TALK ABOUT LATER, IT'S REALLY INCREDIBLE.
SO HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO TELL THIS STORY?
AND TO YOU, WHAT IS THE HEART OF THE STORY?
>> WELL, IT IN MANY WAYS IS ABOUT NARRATIVES.
AND ABOUT THE FACT THAT NARRATIVES HAVE IN OUR LIFE, AND ALSO MORE IMPORTANTLY, THE NARRATIVES THAT WE CREATE OF OURSELVES.
AND AGAIN, HOW SOMETIMES THE NARRATIVES ARE HIDING THE TRUTH.
NOW, THERE ARE MANY, MANY, MANY, MANY CLUES THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SHOW.
THAT IN MANY WAYS, IF YOU WATCH IT FOR THE SECOND TIME, IT HAS A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT -- >> LET'S TALK ABOUT JUST THE STORY ITSELF.
UP UNTIL THE LAST EPISODES THAT ARE GOING TO DROP LATER.
SO WE THINK, WE SEE A GREAT JOURNALIST WHO GETS ANOTHER AMAZING AWARD, AND YOU ARE KNOWN FOR EXPOSING AND HOLDING POWERFUL AND OTHERS ACCOUNTABLE.
AND YOU'RE AT THIS AWARD CEREMONY WITH YOUR HUSBAND PLAYED BY SASHA BARON COHEN, AND YOU HAVE FLASH BACKS.
YOU ARE ON HOLIDAY WITH YOUR CHILD AND HAVE AN AFFAIR WITH A MUCH YOUNGER BOY, AND THEN YOU GET THIS BOOK GIVEN TO YOU THAT THEN REVEALS A WHOLE STORY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, AND IT'S KIND OF TOLL US THE STORY.
>> WELL, AT THE HEART OF THE SERIES IS A BOOK CALLED "PERFECT STRANGERS," AND TELEVISION ALLOWS TO YOU BUILD UNDERSTANDING WITH CHARACTERS, AND ALFONSO HAS DROPPEDS IN DRAMA IN THE FIRST MINUTES OF FIRST EPISODE.
AND THAT BOOK, IT SEEMS TO BE ABOUT CATHERINE, SO SHE TRIES TO ERADICATE IT AND BURN IT AND SHE CAN'T ESCAPE IT.
>> CATHERINE!
>> IT DESCRIBES AN EVENT FROM SOMEONE ELSE'S PERSPECTIVE OF WHAT WENT ON.
AND WHAT YOU WITNESS, MY CHARACTER DOESN'T SPEAK.
CAN'T UNPACK IT AND ALSO GIVES HIMSELF A CHANCE TO SPEAK.
AND I THINK THERE ARE TWO PARALLEL FAMILIES.
ONE IS SHROUDED BY GRIEF.
AND THEY ARE BOTH UNITED BY THE SAME MOMENT -- THE CATACLYSMIC MOMENT.
>> PEOPLE WANT TO WATCH THIS.
THERE IS SO MUCH MYSTERY, WE CAN'T DISCUSS IT.
>> I KNOW, I FEEL LIKE I'M IN THE CIA SPEAKING IN CODE.
>> I KNOW, INTERROGATE A DEEP SPY.
SO MUCH REVEALED AND YOU'RE NOT DROPPING IT ALL AT ONCE.
PEOPLE CAN'T BINGE IT.
>> IT IS AS MUCH ABOUT ALL OF THIS ABOUT THE AUDIENCE INVOLVEMENT.
BECAUSE IN THE STRENGTH OF EACH NARRATIVE THAT IS PRESENTED TO YOU DEPENDS ON YOUR OWN JUDGMENT.
>> YES.
>> AND THEN -- THAT'S HOW WE BUILD.
>> IT IS.
IT'S THE JUDGMENT OF THE CHARACTERS THROUGHOUT, AND A LITTLE BIT -- YOU FEEL A LITTLE COME COMPLICIT.
>> I THINK THAT IS THE POINT OF THE -- PRETTY MUCH THE JOURNEY OF YOU GUYS, THE TWO FAMILIES.
ONE THAT IS INVADED BY GRIEF AND THE OTHER ONE -- >> EMOTIONAL AVOIDANCE.
AND THAT IS YOUR FAMILY.
>> THAT IS YOUR FAMILY.
AND THE INTERESTING WAY THAT FAMILIES PROJECT EACH OTHER.
THEY REJECT EACH OTHER IN DIFFERENT WAYS.
>> THEY BOTH HAVE SONS.
SINGLE -- YOU KNOW, ONLY CHILDREN THAT A LOT OF EXPECTATION, AND DESIRE TO PROTECT IS PROJECTED ON THEM.
AND THERE IS A LOT OF WEIGHT.
>> THERE IS A LOT OF SEX IN THE FILM.
A LOT OF SEX.
AND I JUST WONDERED, WE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
I JUST WONDER, DO YOU THINK THAT WILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO MOST VIEWS?
DO YOU THINK -- TELL ME ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF SEX IN THE FILM?
>> WHEN I FIRST READ THE SCRIPT, I THREW IT ACROSS THE ROOM, AND SAID, THERE IS A LOT OF SEX IN THIS.
DO WE NEED THAT MUCH SEX?
AND WATCHING AND IT TALKING THROUGH IT, AND THE WAY YOU ARE SO METICULOUS ABOUT HOW YOU PLOTTED THE STRANDS OF THE DRAMA, I REALIZE IT'S TO PLACE THEM IN A POWERFUL RELATIONSHIP TO THAT.
TO THEIR OWN SENSE OF WHAT WAS ENOUGH, TO WHAT THEIR OWN SENSE OF WHAT WAS -- WHAT DESIRE WAS, AND ALSO TO REALLY GET LOCKED IN A NARROW POINT OF VIEW EARLY ON IN RELATIONSHIPS.
ONCE TO, AND NOT GOING TO MAKE IT UNCOMFORTABLE, AND WHERE WE GET TO THE SERIES.
AND A MEMORABLE FEELING FOR THE AUDIENCE TO HAVE.
>> AND IN THE FIRST HALF, ESSENTIALLY YOU ARE WELL AND TRULY CANCELED.
YOUR CAREER IS PRACTICALLY CRUMBLING BECAUSE OF THE BOOK THAT LANDED IN EVERYBODY'S LAUGH.
THAT IS ALSO A VERY TODAY THING.
THE IDEA OF INSTANT JUDGMENT, AND THAT'S WHAT THE FILM IS ABOUT AS WELL.
>> IT'S ALL -- WHAT I THINK IS REALLY INTERESTING ABOUT THE WAY YOU FRAMED THAT, AND ON THE DAY WHEN WE SHOT IT, IS WHAT HAPPENS IN THE OFFENSE IS ALMOST LIKE A NIGHTMARE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S -- IT'S A HEIGHTENED STATE THAT -- BECAUSE SUDDENLY, EVERYONE IN THE OFFICE TURNS AROUND, AND SO YOU'VE GONE BEHIND NATURALISM.
BECAUSE THAT WHOLE EXPERIENCE -- IT SOUNDS -- CANCEL CULTURE.
IT'S A VERY UNNATURAL EXPERIENCE THAT PEOPLE YOU DON'T KNOW, OUTSIDE YOUR FRAME WORK WHO MAY NOT KNOW ALL THE DETAILS, FORM QUICK AND EASY JUDGMENTS AS A PACK.
I HAVE A CLEAR MORAL COMPASS, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO GET THE ALL THE FACTS TOGETHER.
OR WE LOST FAITH IN THE JUDICIAL SYSTEM.
AND COLLECTIVE JUSTICE THAT WE NO LONGER HAVE, AND I THINK VENGEANCE IS IN RETRIBUTION.
THEY ARE UNDERSTANDABLE, BUT THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT THINGS TO WHAT I THINK IS THE HEART OF JUSTICE, AND CANCEL CULTURE HAS AN ENERGY OF VENGEANCE.
>> THIS FILM, THIS BOOK, THIS STORY WAS BASED ON "THE PERFECT STRANGER" WHICH IS THE BOOK IN THE FILM THAT LAND ON CATHERINE'S LAP.
IT WAS WRITTEN BY THE FATHER OF THE DECEASED YOUNG MAN WHO DROWNED.
HOW DO WE KNOW -- HOW -- HOW DOES SHE KNOW THE STORY?
>> SHE WENT TO THE PLACE WHERE IT HAPPENED.
TO RETRIEVE HER SON'S CORPSE.
SHE KNEW THE PLACES.
AND THERE WAS ALREADY THE INFORMATION THAT CATHERINE RAVENSCROFT WAS THE PERSON WHO WAS THERE.
WHEN YOU WATCH IT AND WHEN YOU EXPERIENCE THAT NOVEL, THE POINT OF VIEW OF NANCY.
>> THE MOTHER.
>> OF THE MOTHER.
>> PLAYED BY AN EXCELLENT ACTRESS.
>> INCREDIBLE.
AS ALWAYS.
SHE WROTE THAT NOVEL AS AN ACT OF KATH THAN SIS, AND OPENING FOR CERTAIN RETRIBUTION.
THAT IN MANY WAYS IS RELEVANT.
WHAT MATTERS IS THE JUDGMENT THAT EVERYBODY'S TAKING BASED UPON THAT BOOK.
SHE IS RECONSTRUCTING A REALITY BASED ON A FEW FACTS.
AND SOME PHOTOGRAPHS.
>> AS A MOTHER OF THREE BOYS, IT'S A BIG MOMENT.
>> YOU ARE A MOTHER OF THREE BOYS.
>> YEAH, I AM.
AND IT'S A BIG MOMENT WHEN YOUR SON ENTERS IN A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP WITH SOMEONE ELSE.
AND FOR HER TO FIND THE PHOTOGRAPHS, IT'S A MOMENT, TO FIND THAT OF HER SON WHO SHE IS MESHED WITH, AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS.
SHE HAS TRANSPOSED HER ON LAYER OF MEANING ON THE PHOTOGRAPHS.
WE THINK WE ARE VISUALLY LITERAL.
BUT PEOPLE CAN'T READ A PHOTOGRAPH PROPERLY OR DON'T -- AND NOW, WITH THE EYE.
I MEAN, PHOTOGRAPHS, THEY HAVE BEEN VESTIANS OF TRUTH.
AND THE PHOTOGRAPHS ARE A HAND GRENADE AND THEY KEEP COMING BACK AND THEY MEAN A SKBIRLY DIFFERENT THING TO CATHERINE THAN THEY DO TO NANCY.
>> THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE STORY.
WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE.
>> AND THANK YOU FOR KICKING US OFF THE RIGHT WAY.
>> I WAS SO PROUD TO BE PART OF THAT.
ESPECIALLY SAYING THE STUFF.
>> NO, WE NEEDED THAT VOICE.
WE NEEDED A VOICE THAT WAS -- >> SEXY!
OKAY, I HAVE A NEW CAREER, EVERYBODY.
>> YEAH, IT WAS BECAUSE OF THAT.
NO, TO BE A VOICE OF CREDIBILITY.
FROM THE GET GO, WHAT YOU'RE DOING IS LEARNING THE AUDIENCE WHAT THEY ARE GOING TO SEE.
>> YEAH, AND YOU DON'T REALIZE IT, BUT YOU DID.
IT'S REALLY GREAT.
I WAS GLAD TO BE A PART OF IT, A LITTLE PART OF IT.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> AND "DISCLAIMER" WITH INCREDIBLE TWISTS IS ROLLING OUT WEEKLY ON APPLE TV+ AND WE WILL HAVE MORE AFTER THE LAST HAIR RAISING EPISODE.
>>> THE SUPREME COURT'S NEW TERM JUST STARTED AND THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IS JUST THREE WEEKS AWAY.
STEVEN IS A PROFESSOR AT GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY AND HE JOINS HARI SVEENIVASAN ABOUT THE ROLE IT CAN PLAY.
>> THANK YOU.
HERE WE HAVE A NEW SUPREME COURT SESSION.
WE STARTED TO HEAR ARGUMENTS IN SOME OF BIG CASES.
I GUESS ONE LAST TERM THAT HAS THESE SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES THAT WE ARE STILL CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE HELLO, WE ARE JUST AMONTH AWAY FROM ELECTION.
THE PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY RULING.
WHAT RIPPLE EFFECTS HAS IT HAD ON THIS ELECTION TODAY?
>> I THINK THE RIPPLE EFFECTS WILL CONTINUE TO BE FELT.
WE HAVE SEEN HOW IT HAS PROCEEDED IN ALL THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS OF PRESIDENT TRUMP.
THE CASE IN FLORIDA THAT WAS THROWN OUT IN LIGHT OF JUSTICE THOMAS.
THERE IS AN APPEAL PENDING AND THE CASES IN NEW YORK AND GEORGIA.
I THINK THE CONTINUING EFFECTS IN THE SHORT TERM IS THAT WE ARE GOING TO GET TO THE ELECTION WITHOUT REALLY ANY RESOLUTION OF THOSE CASES.
THE LONG TERM EFFECTS VERY MUCH REMAIN TO BE SEEN, NOT JUST FOR FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP, WHO IF HE IS NOT ELECTED IN NOVEMBER, I THINK WE ARE STILL IN SERIOUS JEOPARDY, AND ALSO WHAT IT MEANS FOR EXECUTIVE POWER, AND WE HAVE A SUPREME COURT DECISION, AND EXECUTIVE BRANCH CONDUCT THAT CAN'T BE INTERFERED WITH, INVESTIGATED AND LOOKED AT.
BOTH AS IT APPLIES TO PRESIDENT TRUMP AND THE BROADER SPACE.
>> YOU RAISE AN IMPORTANT POINT.
THE CRITICS OF TRUMP POINT OUT -- IF IT'S PRESIDENT HARRIS OR A FUTURE PRESIDENT, THIS APPLIES EQUALLY TO THEM.
>> THE LONG TERM EFFECTS ARE LESS ABOUT SLIMS THAT CRIMES THAT PROCESS CUSS, AND I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE FUTURE PRESIDENTS, WHETHER THEY ARE DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS, TROTTING OUT THE CRIMINAL IMNUNETY, TO RESIST SUBPOENAS FROM CONGRESS TO RESIST OVERSIGHT FROM CONGRESS, AND CIVIL SUITS IN THE COURTS.
THAT IS AN INTERESTING QUESTION THAT IS TOO EARLY TO ANSWER.
HOW FASH AND WIDE BEYOND THE SPECIFIC CONTEXT OF THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTIONS WILL IT HAVE AN IMPACT.
IT WILL THE HAVE AN IMPACT.
WE HAVEN'T SEEN IT YET.
>> ONE OF THE FACES IS ABOUT GHOST GUNS.
THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY NOW THAT IS OUT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.
IF YOU OR I HAD A 3-D PRINTER AT HOME, AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN AFFORD THAT, WE COULD PRINT, TAKE THE PLANS OFFER THE INTERNET AND PRINT A FUNCTIONING WEAPON.
THE CASE IS WHETHER THEY SHOULD HAVE SERIAL NUMBERS OR NOT.
THAT SEEMS KIND OF -- A SIDEWAYS WAY TO GET AT THIS.
>> YEAH, I THINK FOR THE SECOND YEAR IN A ROW, HERE WE HAVE AN IMPORTANT CASE THAT IS NOMINALLY ABOUT GUNS AND THE POWER OF ADMINISTRATIVE AGENCIES IN THE CONTEXT OF SPECIFICS.
AND CONGRESS HAS GIVEN THE GOVERNMENT BROAD POWER TO REGULATE FIRE ARMS AND THE QUESTION IS WHAT IS A FIREARM.
THE GHOST GUNS, EVERYONE AGREES IF YOU OR I WALKED IN A STORE, A LICENSED FIREARM SELLER AND BROUGHT THE SAME PRODUCT, THAT CONGRESS WOULD HAVE A POWER TO REGULATE IT.
WHO CAN BUY IT, WHO HAS -- THE SERIAL NUMBERS AND REGISTRATION REQUIREMENTS, BACKGROUND CHECKS AND THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THAT SHOULD APPLY WHEN YOU HAVE COMPANIES WHO ARE SELLING KITS FOR 3-D PRINTERS OR WE WILL SEND YOU PIECES OF PLASTIC AND YOU PUT IT TOGETHER, AND WHAT I WAS STRUCK BY, HARI, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUSLY YES.
I THINK THE SUPREME COURT IS GOING TO END UP THERE.
VOICES FROM SOME OF THE MORE CONSERVATIVE JUSTICES, AND REALLY A POWERFUL SIGN OF WHERE THE SUPREME COURT IS WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT I THOUGHT WERE STRAIGHTFORWARD STATUTORY QUESTIONS.
>> THE COURT WILL DECIDE THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF GENDER AFFIRMING CARE.
WHAT ARE THE ARGUMENTS THERE?
>> THIS IS THE BIGGEST COURSE THE CASE HAS ON THE DOCKET.
THIS IS A COLLAGE TO A TENNESSEE LAW THAT BANS CERTAIN KINDS OF GENDER AFFIRMING MEDICAL PROCEDURES ESPECIALLY FOR ADOLESCENTS, AND THE QUESTION, WHETHER THIS DISCRIMINATION WHICH SINGLES OUT TRANSGENDER INDIVIDUALS, WHETHER THAT KIND OF DISCRIMINATION IS IN VIOLATION OF THE EQUAL PROTECTION CLAUS, THE IDEAL THAT GOVERNMENT HAS TO HAVE A GOOD JUSTIFICATION BEFORE IT TREATS SIMILAR SITUATED PEOPLE DIFFERENTLY.
AND THAT IS REALLY A TEST FOR THIS COURT AND WHETHER IT'S GOING TO TREAT TRANSGENDER STATUS DISCRIMINATION THE SAME WAY IT TREATED NOT JUST RACE AND SEX, BUT AS WE SAW IN THE CONTEXT OF EMPLOYMENT, EVEN SEXUAL ORIENTATION DISCRIMINATION.
THAT HAD BOTH JUSTICE GORSUCH AND ROBERTS IN AGREEMENT.
IS THE COURT GOING TO TAKE THE STEP FROM SEXUAL ORIENTATION FROM ORIENTATION TO TRANSGENDER, OR WILL THEY FIND A NARROWER GROUND.
A LOT OF EYES ARE FOCUSED ON.
>> THIS THE SUPREME COURT OFTEN GETS LAST MINUTE APPEALS, ESPECIALLY ON DEATH ROW CASES AND THEY TOOK UP A CASE THAT IS INTERESTING.
61-YEAR-OLD RICHARD GLOSET FROM OKLAHOMA WAS CONVICTED AND SENTENCED TO DEATH, AND HE MAINTAINED HIS INNOCENCE, AND THERE IS MISCONDUCT IN THE 30 YEARS THE CASE HAS BEEN GOING ON.
WHAT IS AT THE CENTER OF THE CASE.
>> WHAT IS REMARKABLE IS TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.
NOT JUST THAT RICHARD GLOSSET IS PROTECTING.
THE OKLAHOMA ATTORNEY GENERAL NOW CONCEDES NOT THAT HE IS INNOCENT, BUT THERE IS ENOUGH MISCONDUCT THAT HE SHOULD BE AT LEAST RETRIED SO THERE IS AN INTINTED VERDICT.
BUT MEANWHILE, THE OKLAHOMA COURT OF CRIMINAL APPEALS, IN OKLAHOMA, REFUSED TO ALLOW IT TO HAPPEN.
ON ITS VIEW, THERE WERE PROCEDURAL BOXES THAT HE HAD FAILED TO CHECK.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD BE A RELATIVELY STRAIGHTFORWARD CASE FOR THE SUPREME COURT.
WHEN YOU HAVE EVEN THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AGREEING THERE HAS TO BE A NEW TRIAL.
HARD TO IMAGINE THE JUSTICES SAY OTHERWISE.
BUT WE HEARD A LOT OF SKEPTICISM NOT JUST FROM CLARENCE THOMAS OR SAMUEL ALITO, OUT JOHN ROBERTS WHETHER IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE IS ENTITLED TO A NEW TRIAL.
REALLY, THESE ARE THE ONLY CAPITAL CASES THE SUPREME COURT HAS TAKEN UP WHEN YOU HAVE THIS MUCH AGREEMENT ABOUT WHAT WENT WRONG IN A TRIAL COURT.
>> YOU WROTE RECENTLY, THE SUPREME COURT IS ITS OWN WORST ENEMY.
EXPLAIN.
>> YEAH, IT'S A BROADER POINT WHERE THE COURT IS.
WE HAVE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AMERICAN HISTORY, AT LEAST IN THE LAST DECADE OF SO, A COURT WHERE ALL NINE OF THE JUSTICES ARE ALIGNED IDEALOGICALLY WITH THE PRESIDENT WHO APPOINTED THEM.
ANY TIME THE JUSTICES DIVIDE, IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A PARTISAN DIVISION.
IT'S AN EXERCISE OF PARTISAN JUDICIAL POWER.
THE BEST DEFENSE FOR THAT, FOR THE COURT TO PROVE IT'S NOT TRUE, IS TO PERHAPS NOT SIDE IN ALL THE BIG CASES IN A WAY THAT SPLITS THE COURT 6-3 ALONG THE PREDICTABLE LINE, AND EMBRACE SOME OF THE REFORMS THAT HAVE BEEN PROPOSED BY ME AND OTHER FOLKS AND TRY TO AVOID SENDING A MESSAGE IN EVERY BIG CASE, THE BEST PREDICTOR OF OUTCOME.
THE MORE THE COURT CAN ACT IN WAYS THAT THEY ARE NOT JUST JUDGES.
THE MORE IT MIGHT BE ABLE TO ARREST SOME OF THE REALLY ALARMING EROSION IN PUBLIC FAITH WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST COUPLE YEARS.
>> SPEAKING ON OF THAT EROSION, WE HAVE A RECENT PEW SURVEY FOUND THAT 51% OF THE AMERICANS HAVE AN UNFAVORABLE VIEW OF THE COURTS.
THIS IS ONE OF THE INSTITUTIONS, A COUPLE DECADES AGO, THAT WE HAD BIPARTISAN AGREEMENT, SOMETHING WE HAD FAITH IN.
AND HERE WE ARE, 50/50.
>> IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE RESULTS.
IT'S COMMON PLACE FOR THE COURT DEFENDERS TO BLAME THE CRITICS FOR BEING UP HAPPY ABOUT THE RESULTS.
BUT THE REALITY, THE COURT DEPENDS ON PUBLIC SUPPORT.
IT DEPENDS ON THE PUBLIC FAITH THAT IS ERODING.
THE MORE THERE IS PUBLIC DISCORD AROUND THE COURT, THE MORE THAT IT'S ERODING, EVEN IF IT'S ONE FROM PARTICULAR BLOCK, THE HARDER IT WILL BE FOR THE JUSTICES IN FUTURE CASES WHERE IT REALLY, REALLY MATTERS TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THE POLITICAL BRANCHES WHEN THEY DO AGGRESSIVE, YOU LAWFUL THINGS WITH THE POSSIBILITY THAT WE WILL HEAD IN A SECOND TERM OF TRUMP.
IT'S SOMETHING WE HAVE BE WORRIED ABOUT.
>> HOW MUCH OF THE TRUST EMOTION IS REALLY BECAUSE OF THE ACTIONS OF A PARTICULAR JUSTICE?
RIGHT NOW, CLARENCE THOMAS, JUSTICE ALITO.
THERE ARE SEVERAL ARTICLES AND THEIR CONNECTIONS TO MAGA MOVEMENT AND -- AND I WONDER WHETHER THAT SINKS INTO THE GENERAL PUBLIC?
YOU KNOW, THESE GUYS ARE PARTISANS ANY WAY.
>> I THINK IT DOESN'T HELP.
IT GOES BACK TO WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT A FEW MINUTES AGO.
THE ONUS IS REALLY ON THE COURT.
WHEN YOU HAVE STORIES ABOUT JUSTICE ALITO, JUSTICE THOMAS, ONE REA MIGHT BE, OH, GOSH, SOME OF THESE ARE GENERAL CONCERNS.
LET'S TALK ABOUT THEM.
LET'S TALK ABOUT REFORMS.
INSTEAD, WHAT WE HAVE MOST BY GOTTEN IS ENTRENCHMENT.
DIGGING IN.
IT'S THAT NONOF THE STORIES ARE TALKING ABOUT ANYTHING LEGITIMATE, AND THE BEHAVIOR IS NOT PROBLEMATIC, EVEN THOUGH THAT JUSTICE THOMAS HAD TO AMEND A COUPLE OF HIS DISCLOSURE FORMS.
WHEN THE COURT OR AT LEAST SOME OF THE JUSTICES ARE GOING TO BURY THEIR HEADS IN THE SAND, THAT IS WHEN IT REINFORCES A CONCERN THIS IS NOT A COURT THAT IS INTERESTED IN ACCOUNTABILITY, AND THAT IS WHERE I'M CONCERNED THE COURT IS SETTING IT UP UP, AND THE COURT IS TRYING TO STAND UP, TO A PRESIDENT WHO IS ABUSING POWER OR A GOVERNOR ABUSING POWER AND THEY ISSUE A SIGNIFICANT DECISION AND THERE IS NO ONE LEFT TO ENFORCE IT.
AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT JUST A HYPE -- HYPOTHETICAL, AND THEY WANTED TO REMOVE RAISER WIRE, AND THEY DEFIED THE SUPREME COURT.
THAT SET OFF ALARM BELLS NOT JUST IN LAW SCHOOLS BUT IN THE SUPREME COURT ITSELF.
WRUNS WE HAVE GONE DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE AND TALKING ABOUT IGNORING SUPREME COURT RULINGS THEY DON'T LIKE, THE COURT IS IN A PRECARIOUS POSITION, REGARDLESS OF WHO THE JUSTICES ARE AND HOW WE FEEL ABOUT THEIR RULING.
>> WASN'T IT SUPPOSED TO BE A CODE OF CONDUCT A BEHAVIOR THAT WAS GOING TO FIX A LOT OF THIS.
>> IT WAS REMARKABLE THAT THE SUPREME COURT DID ADOPT AN INTERNAL CODE OF CONDUCT.
THOSE WHO THOUGHT THAT WAS A SOLUTION IS AHEAD OF THE CURVE HERE.
PART OF THE REAL QUESTION IS NOT WHAT THE RULES ARE, BUT WHO IS GOING TO POLICE THEM AND WHAT IS GOING TO ENFORCE THEM.
AND I THINK WHAT WE HAVE LEARNED IS THAT WE SHOULDN'T AND CAN'T TRUST THE JUSTICES THEMSELVES, AND JUSTICE KAGAN SAID IT SHOULDN'T BE UP TO US.
AND I'M A LITTLE SKREPT CAL ABOUT OVERSIGHT.
BUT I DON'T THINK IT WOULD BE THAT BIZARRE OR PROBLEM MATTIC TO HAVE CONGRESS CREATE INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR THE FEDERAL THREE COURTS.
NOT WITH THE POWER TO REMOVE JUSTICES BUT TO LOOK AND INVESTIGATE, TO PUBLIC ANY TIME THERE IS A CONCERN.
AND THE DISCLOSURE REQUIREMENTS OR THE ETHICS RULE.
AND I HAVE TO THINK THAT WOULD NOT BE PERFECT, AND AT LEAST WE WOULD NOT BE DEPENDENT ON THE MEDIA AS PRINCIPLED AS IT MIGHT BE TO DO THE WORK THAT THE COURT AND COURT INSTITUTIONS OUGHT TO BE DOING FOR US.
>> HERE WE ARE, A MONTH AWAY FROM THE ELECTION, AND WE ARE AS A NATION POISED FOR THIS ELECTION HAVING COURT DRAMA ATTACHED.
THIS WOULD BE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.
IT WOULD BE AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL.
IF THERE ARE SITUATIONS WHERE THE SUPREME COURT HAS TO BE A AR HOW DO THAT DO IT?
>> BEHIND THE SOUND BITES WE SEE IN MEDIA, IT'S BECAUSE IT'S A LEGITIMATE QUESTION.
IF THE ELECTION -- IF WE HAVE A REPEAT OF 2000 WHERE THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION COMES DOWN TO ONE STATE, AND WHERE THERE IS LITIGATION IN ONE STATE THAT IS JUST POSITIVE OF WHICH CANDIDATE IS GOING TO WIN, ARE WE CONFIDENT THAT IF IT GOES TO THE SUPREME COURT, THE COURT WILL HAVE A FAIR HEARING AS OPPOSED TO FINDING A WAY TO RULE FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP?
I THINK WE SHOULD BE CONFIDENT BUT THE COURT'S BEHAVIOR IS KBI THE AMERICANS ARE NOT CONFIDENT.
AND THAT IS REALLY A DAMMIC INDICTMENT FOR THE COURT.
I HOPE THIS IS MORE A REPEAT OF 2020.
THE ELECTION WAS NOT CLOSE, AND THE SUPREME COURT STAYED OUT OF IT.
IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE IF WE GET TO 2000 WHERE THERE IS ONE TIPPING POINT STATE, EITHER THE OUT OF THAT DISPUTE OR WE COULD HAVE A TON OF FAITH THAT THE COURT WOULD HANDLE THE DISPUTE.
THE COURT WAS ABLE TO RECOVER FROM BUSH VERSUS GORE AND HOW IT INTERVENED IN THE 2000 ELECTION.
BUT THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT COURT.
THIS IS A COURT WITH MUCH LESS PUBLIC CREDIBILITY GOING IN, AND SPENT THE LAST FOUR OR FIVE YEARS IN THE MIDDLE OF A TON OF PUBLIC CONTROVERSY ON EVERYTHING FROM ABORTION TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION TO GUNS TO RELIGION, AND THERE COMES A STATE WHERE THE COURT RUNS OUT OF CAPITAL TO SPEND ON CASES AND THAT IS WHY, FOR LOTS OF REASONS, I REALLY HOPE WE DON'T FIND OUT IN THE NEXT MONTH OR TWO MONTHS IF THIS IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER 2000 ALL OVER AGAIN.
>> PROFESSOR, STEVE, THANKS VERY MUCH FOR JOINING US.
>> THANKS.
>> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS HAPPENING EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR THE NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR.
THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOOD-BYE FROM LONDON.
>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
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AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
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♪♪