October 25, 2019

> HELLO EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & CO.'

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

> THE EVIDENCE IS POWERFUL SOME MORE POWERFUL ALREADY THAN WHAT WE SAW IN THE IMPEACHMENT OF RICHARD NIXON.

FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE JOHN KERRY ON IMPEACHMENT, WE TRAIL IN SYRIA AND THE CLIMATE EMERGENCY.

> PLUS -- STAR OF STAGE AND SCREEN, BRIAN COX DISSECTS HIS ROLES OF THE MOMENT.

PRESIDENT LYNDON JOHNSON ON BROADWAY AND THE RUTHLESS MURDOCH MEDIA MOGUL ON THE HIT SHOW 'SUCCESSION.'

WHEN WE SHINE A LIGHT IN A DARK PLACE, NOT EVERYBODY IS GOING TO LIKE IT.

WNBA SUPERSTAR MAYA MOORE ON WHY SHE'S TRADING ONE COURT FOR ANOTHER AS SHE FIGHTS FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE.

> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN NEW YORK.

THIS WEEK PRESIDENT TRUMP'S TRANSACTIONAL APPROACH TO FOREIGN POLICY IS TAKING CENTER STAGE.

BLOCKBUSTER TESTIMONY IN WASHINGTON SAW THE TOP U.S.

DIPLOMAT TO UKRAINE DESCRIBING WHAT HE CALLED A QUID PRO QUO DEMAND FROM PRESIDENT TRUMP TO PRESIDENT ZELENSKY.

MILITARY AID AND A WHITE HOUSE VISIT IN RETURN FOR DIRT ON HIS POLITICAL RIVALS.

WHILE ACROSS THE WORLD, TRUMP'S SYRIA WITHDRAWAL IS DESCRIBED AS A STRATEGIC ERROR AMID REPORTS THAT NOW THE U.S. COULD MOVE TANKS AND TROOPS BACK AGAIN INTO THE EAST OF THE COUNTRY TO PROTECT U.S. FORCES NEAR THE OIL FIELDS.

WHETHER IT IS SYRIA OR PULLING OUT OF THE IRAN NUCLEAR DEAL OR THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD, THESE MOVES ARE ALL PART AND PARCEL OF UNPICKING HIS PREDECESSOR, PRESIDENT OBAMA'S LEGACY.

FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE, JOHN KERRY, WAS FRONT AND CENTER OF THAT DIPLOMACY AND HE JOINED ME FROM PARIS WHERE HE'S DECLARING WAR ON THE CLIMATE CRISIS WITH HIS NEW INITIATIVE WORLD WAR ZERO.

SECRETARY JOHN KERRY, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.

GLAD TO BE WITH YOU.

THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.

I WANT TO START BY ASKING YOU ABOUT THE SYRIAN DEBACLE.

MANY PEOPLE, AS YOU KNOW, EVEN IN THE PRESIDENT'S PARTY, ARE CALLING IT PRECISELY THAT.

VOTE I WONDER IF MAYBE THERE'S SOME LESSONS TO BE LEARNED FROM THE OBAMA STRAIGHT BECAUSE RIGHT NOW WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE PRESIDENT IS CONSIDERING SENDINGING IN POTENTIALLY MORE U.S. TROOPS AND POTENTIALLY EVEN ARMOR TO PROTECT THE OIL FIELDS AND THE LIKE.

AND YOU REMEMBER, OF COURSE, THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION AFTER WITHDRAWING ALL THE TROOPS FROM IRAQ BASICALLY THEN HAD TO SEND THOUSANDS BACK TO FIGHT ISIS.

TELL ME WHAT YOU MAKE OF THOSE TWO EVENTS.

WELL, I THINK THIS IS VERY DIFFERENT, CHRISTIANE, FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE DAMAGE IS DONE.

BASICALLY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BETRAYED OUR ALLIES ON THE GROUND, KURDS, WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR REALLY BEING -- PLAYING A CENTRAL ROLE IN DEFEATING ISIS AND IN SECURING THE BORDER WITH TURKEY WHICH TURKEY HAD REFUSED TO DO, SO NOW HE HAS JUST UPPED AND ALLOWED TURKISH PRESIDENT ERDOGAN TO ACHIEVE EVERYTHING HE WANTED TO DO, IN EFFECT GIVING HIM WHAT HE WAS SETTING OUT TO DO IN HIS MILITARY OPERATION AND ACTUALLY AIDED IN THE REMOVAL OR IN FACT APPROVED THE REELF MO.

THAT'S JUST AN EXTRAORDINARY EVENT, AND THE DAMAGE WAS DONE BY THAT.

THE DAMAGE WAS DONE THE MOMENT THE PRESIDENT TWEETED I'M PULLING MY TROOPS OUT.

THE MOMENT THAT HE HAD DONE THAT AND HE TOOK AWAY ANY OF THE LEVERAGE THAT THE UNITED STATES HAD TO TRY TO RESOLVE WITH RUSSIA, WITH OTHER PARTIES IN THE REGION WHAT WE HAD SET OUT AND OTHERS HAD SET OUT IN GENEVA SOME TIME AGO WHICH IS HOW DO YOU RESOLVE THE ISSUE OF SYRIA?

THERE'S WITHIN NO REAL DIPLOMATIC ENERGY BEHIND, THAT AND THIS IS NOW NOT JUST CODIFIED BUT PUT A HORRENDOUS STAMP ON IT IT, AND THE PICTURES TELL THE STORY.

YOU NOW SEE RUSSIAN FLAGS FLYING OVER THE U.S. BASES.

THAT TELLS YOU THE DAMAGE THAT'S BEEN DONE, AND, IN FACT, THE PRESIDENT WAS QUOTED AS SAYING PEOPLE ALL THROUGH THE REGION ARE NOW QUESTIONING THE STAYING POWER OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND WHETHER OR NOT AN ALLIANCE WITH THEM IS WORTH ANYTHING.

YOU RAISE A COUPLE VERY IMPORTANT POINTS THERE.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, AND I PUT THIS TO SECRETARY ESPER, WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM EARLIER THIS WEEK IN SAUDI ARABIA WHERE HE WAS DEMONSTRATING FORCE THAT THE UNITED STATES WAS DEPLOYING TO SAUDI ARABIA TO FACE OFF AGAINST ANY IRANIAN THREAT, AND I ASKED HIM ISN'T THAT A LITTLE BIT LIKE GIVING WITH ONE HAND AND TAKING WITH ANOTHER GIVEN THAT, AS YOU'VE CONFIRMED, THE TERRITORY IN SYRIA IS NOW OPEN TO IRAN, TO RUSSIA, TO ASSAD?

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF TRYING TO FACE OFF AGAINST IRAN ON ONE HAND AND AS I SAID OPENING THE TERRITORY TO THEIR INFLUENCE AND RUSSIAN INFLUENCE ON THE OTHER HAND IN SYRIA?

WHAT I THINK MOST PEOPLE TAKE FROM IT IS AN ABSENCE OF A GENUINE STRATEGIC POLICY.

IT'S SHOOTING FROM THE HIP.

WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, CHRISTIANE, I THINK EVERYBODY IN THE PENTAGON UNDERSTANDS THIS, AND BY THE WAY, FOR THOSE SOLDIERS ON THE GROUND WHO HAD FORMED PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS AND ALLIANCES WITH KURDS WHO PUT THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE IN ORDER TO GO AFTER ISIS TO ONE DAY BE SLEEPING IN A TENT WITH THEM AND THEN THE OTHER HAVE TO RETREAT, AND WE SAW THE POTATOES BEING THROWN AT OUR TRUCKS AND THINGS, I MEAN, THIS IS A MOMENT OF ENMITY.

THIS IS A HORRIBLE MOMENT THAT THOSE SOLDIERS WILL CARRY WITH THEM FOREVER, AND WHAT I BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT AND THOSE SUPPORTING HIM ARE TRYING TO DO NOW IS FIND SOME KIND AN OFF RAMP MAKEUP FOR IT IT, BUT THERE ISN'T A MAKEUP FOR IT.

THE FACT IS THAT THE KURDS WERE OUR ALLIES IN KEEPING ISIS LOCKED UP WHICH NOW THEY ARE NOT ALL LOCKED UP, AND IN ASSURING THAT THEY WEREN'T GOING TO RISE AGAIN.

WE HAD A BUFFER AGAINST WHAT OTHERS IN THE REG OP WEREN'T FRANKLY DOING FULLY.

I MEAN, IT WASN'T RUSSIA THAT DEFEATED ISIS.

IT WAS THE UNITED STATES AND A POLICY THAT WE PUT TOGETHER IN THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION THAT BROUGHT 68 PLUS NATIONS TO THE TABLE IN AN ALLIANCE AND THEN STEADILY BEGINNING WITH THE PRESIDENT'S DECISION TO BOMB MT. SINJAR AND SAVE LIVES TO STEADILY TAKE BACK TERRITORY THAT HAD BEEN TAKEN BY ISIS, AND -- AND PRESIDENT TRUMP CONTINUED THAT.

HE ACCELERATED IT IN CERTAIN PLACES, BUT THE POINT IS IT WAS THE SAME STRATEGY.

THAT'S NOW DESTROYED.

THAT IS NOT PRESENT, AND THE PRESENCE OF AMERICA ON THE GROUND WHICH WAS NOT COSTING US A DAILY WAR, YOU KNOW, EVERLASTING WAR LIVES.

IT WAS A STRATEGIC POSITIONING OF TROOPS WHO BY THEIR VERY PRESENCE HAD HELPED TO QUIET THINGS DOWN AND RUSSIANS WERE SORT OF TREATING THEIR TERRITORY AS THEIR TERRITORY.

WE WERE TAKING CARE OF A CERTAIN ELEMENT OURS AND THE KURDS WERE DOING WHAT THEY WERE DOING, AND ASSAD WAS HE WILL AT BAY IN THAT.

THERE WAS SOME LEVERAGE TO TRY TO GET A DIPLOMATIC SOLUTION.

THAT IS NOW NOT PRESENT.

YOU SEE PUTIN MEETING WITH ERDOGAN, AND THEY ARE NOW SITTING THERE DIVIDING UP THE WAY THEY ARE GOING TO MANAGE THE FUTURE AND THE UNITED STATES IS NOT AT THAT TABLE.

I JUST WANT TO PUSH YOU A LITTLE BIT.

I KNOW YOU SAID THE SITUATION IS DIFFERENT, AND IT IS, BUT I WANT TO KNOW WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THERE'S A CAUTIONARY TALE IN THE RAPID REMOVAL OF AMERICAN TROOPS PRECISELY IN ORDER TO BRING THEM HOME.

PRESIDENT OBAMA WANTS TO DO THAT AND PRESIDENT OBAMA WANTED THE SAME THING.

OH, FOR SURE.

YOU KNOW WHEN THEY CAME OUT OF IRAQ, THAT'S WHAT ALLOWED ISIS TO RISE A COUPLE OF YEARS LATER, AND THEN YOUR ADMINISTRATION, AND YOU POINT OUT, HAD TO PUT THOUSANDS BACK AND THEY DID START THIS SYSTEMATIC DEFEAT OF ISIS.

THE ANSWER IS YES.

THERE IS A CAUTIONARY TALE IN THAT, AND I THINK WE THOUGHT PEOPLE HAD LEARNED IT, AND THE FACT IS THAT -- I MEAN, I'M AGAINST ARBITRARY DATE SETTING AND DECISIONS THAT ARE NOT BASED ON THE SITUATION AND ON A STRATEGY PARTICULARLY WITH RESPECT TO TERRORISM.

TERRORISM IS A DIFFERENT ANIMAL, AND WE'VE ALL LEARNED THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST 15, 16 YEARS.

WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS STAY VIGILANT.

I THINK THAT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY THIS STICKS IN THE CRAW OF ALL OF THE COUNTERTERRORISM AND OUR SECURITY COMMUNITY, IN THE MILITARY PARTICULARLY, BECAUSE THEY HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE.

AMERICAN FAMILIES HAVE INVESTED IN THIS COUNTERTERRORISM EFFORT FOR THE LONG HAUL, AND, UNFORTUNATELY, PRESIDENT TRUMP SORT OF MIXES THE COUNTERTERRORISM COMPONENT INTO THIS BAG OF EVER MORE, EVERLASTING WARS.

IT'S NOT EXCEPT TO THE DEGREE THAT WE ARE IN A LONG-TERM CONFLICT WITH EXTREMISM WHICH WILL REQUIRE US TO HAVE A THOUGHTFUL INTELLIGENT, CERTAIN PARTS OF THE WORLD AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DOING IN SYRIA.

OKAY.

WELL, THAT BRINGS ME TO THE ESSENTIAL ISSUE HERE THAT YOU BROUGHT UP EARLIER, AND THAT IS WHAT DOES AMERICA DO NEXT TIME IT NEEDS HELP?

WHAT DO ALLIES DO THE NEXT TIME AMERICA COMES CRAWLING, AND YOU'VE PROBABLY SEEN THE COVER OF THE ECONOMIST WHO SAYS NOW WHO CAN TRUST AMERICA, CONSEQUENCES OF BETRAYING THE KURDS?

IT'S A VERY PROFOUND QUESTIONS AND IT'S AN ABSOLUTELY ANTICIPATABLE, FORESEEABLE QUESTION, AND IT WAS FORESEEN BY MANY PEOPLE.

THE KEY WORDS IN WHAT YOU'VE JUST ASKED ME IS TRUMP'S AMERICA.

I WOULD SAY NOT TRUMP'S AMERICA.

I WOULD SAY TRUMP'S ADMINISTRATION BECAUSE AMERICA, I BELIEVE, WILL STILL BE COMMITTED TO DO THINGS THAT ARE VITAL TO OUR NATIONAL SECURITY AND WE IN AMERICA, THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, DEEPLY VALUE OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH NATO, OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH EUROPE, OUR RELATIONSHIP THAT HAS BEEN BUILT ON ALL OF THE POST-WAR EFFORTS TO WIN COLD WAR AND THEN TRY TO WIN THE PEACE AND BY HAVING A U.N., HAVING THE INTERNATIONAL INSTITUTIONS THAT MOST COUNTRIES STILL RESPECT AND WISH THE UNITED STATES WAS STILL LEADING, SO THIS IS TRUMP'S DECISION.

THIS IS PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT HIS FUTURE AS WELL AS HIS CAPACITY TO LEAD WITH ANY TRUST WHATSOEVER, CERTAINLY WITH OUR TRADITIONAL ALINESES BUT ALSO NOW I THINK WITH OUR OWN MILITARY AND IN AMERICA ITSELF.

SECRETARY KERRY, YOU BRUNG ME OBVIOUSLY TO THE HUGE GORILLA IN THE ROOM AND THAT'S THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AGAINST THE PRESIDENT AND THE PRESIDENT'S FIGHT BACK.

SO YOU'VE JUST TRIED TO MAKE A DISTINCTION BETWEEN TRUMP'S AMERICA AND AMERICA, AND YET PEOPLE AROUND THE WORLD ARE LOOKING AT AMERICA TODAY AND ASKING WHETHER THE CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED CHECKS AND BALANCES ARE ACTUALLY WORKING.

YOU HAVE SEEN THE -- THE ISSUE OF REPUBLICAN SENATORS OR REPUBLICANS STORMING COMMITTEE ROOMS WHERE THESE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRIES ARE BEING HELD BEHIND CLOSED DOORS.

YOU'VE SEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP EVEN ATTACK HIS OWN PARTY MEMBERS IN A TWEET CALLING THEM HUMAN SCUM, THOSE WHO ARE, YOU KNOW, DISAGREEING WITH HIS POLICIES.

CAN THE CENTER HOLD?

IS IT ALL GOING TO FALL APART?

WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THE CURRENT WAR WITHIN?

IT IS A WAR WITHIN, AND IT IS DISTURBING, BUT I REALLY HAVE CONFIDENCE ABOUT THE UNITED STATES, AND I HAVE CONFIDENCE ABOUT OUR INSTITUTIONS.

I HAVE SAID MANY TIMES IN COMMENTS IN THE LAST MONTHS THAT IN MY EXPERIENCE AMERICA'S INSTITUTIONS HAVE BEEN STRONGEST WHEN THEY ARE NEEDED THE MOST, AND I BELIEVE THIS IS ONE THOSE MOMENTS.

I THINK IN FACT THE INSTITUTIONS ARE WORKING.

THE FACT THAT BILL TAYLOR TESTIFIED.

THE FACT THAT LAURA COOPER TESTIFIED.

THAT'S INDIVIDUAL COURAGE AND IT'S ALSO ADHERENCE TO THOSE STANDARDS AND THEY WENT BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT THIS IS A LEGITIMATE INQUIRY.

THEY KNOW THAT CONGRESS HAS THIS RIGHT TO INVESTIGATE AND THE POWER OF IMPEACHMENT, AND I THINK THEY ARE ACTING IN -- IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY FOR A SYSTEM THAT WAS SET UP PRECISELY BY OUR FOUNDING FATHERS TO DEAL WITH THIS KIND OF A MOMENT, AND I THINK WHAT IS MOST DAMNING ABOUT THE CIRCUS ACT THAT WAS ENGAGED IN BY CERTAIN MEMBERS OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES WHEN THEY -- WHEN THEY CHARGED THE HEARING ROOM WAS BASED ON A LIE AND WAS AN EFFORT TO DISTRACT FROM THE LEGITIMACY OF THE INQUIRY ITSELF AND FROM THE IMPORTANCE OF THIS MOMENT AND PARTICULARLY FROM THE IMPORTANCE OF THE TESTIMONY THAT BILL TAYLOR PUT FORWARD.

I MEAN, BILL TAYLOR, CHRISTIANE, BILL TAYLOR IS 72 YEARS OLD, A VIETNAM VETERAN, A WEST POINT GRADUATE, 50 YEARS OF PUBLIC SERVICE.

EVERYBODY ON EVERY SIDE OF ANY AISLE WHATSOEVER VOUCHES FOR HIS LEGITIMACY AS A PATRIOT, AS A -- AS AN AMERICAN COMMIT TO THE CONSTITUTION AND TO THE HIGHEST VALUES.

HE WAS HIRED ORIGINALLY TO WORK FOR RONALD REAGAN.

HE WORKED FOR BOTH BUSHES, AND HE WORKED FOR DONALD TRUMP BECAUSE DONALD TRUMP HIRED HIM, AND HE WAS TRYING TO WORK FOR DONALD TRUMP, AND HE FOUND THAT DONALD TRUMP WASN'T WORKING FOR THE INTERESTS OF OUR COUNTRY.

THAT'S WHY HE STOOD UP, AND THAT'S THE POWER THAT HAS ATTRACTED THE HOOLIGANISM TO THE HALLS OF CONGRESS ATTACKING THE LEGITIMACY ON A LIE, AND HERE'S THE LIE.

THEY CLAIMED IT WAS A SECRET PROCESS.

THE TRUTH IS THAT MEMBERS OF BOTH PARTIES ARE REPRESENTED IN THE THREE COMMITTEES THAT ARE HAVING THESE HEARINGS, SO IT'S NOT A SECRET PROCESS, AND IT WILL BE EVEN MORE PUBLIC WHEN THEY HAVE DONE THEIR PRELIMINARY WORK WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE.

BILL TAYLOR, HIS TESTIMONY ON CAPITOL HILL SEEMED TO BE VERY, VERY POINTED AND VERY DIRECT AND TO THE HEART OF THE MATTER.

HE BASICALLY SAID IN HIS VIEW THERE WAS A QUID PRO QUO, THAT THE MILITARY AID TO UKRAINE WAS BEING HELD UP PENDING THE NEW PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE ANNOUNCE AN INVESTIGATION THAT THE PRESIDENT WANTED INTO HIS POLITICAL OPPONENT.

HE ALSO SAID IN AUGUST AND SEPTEMBER OF THIS CAREER I BECAME INCREASINGLY CONCERNED THAT OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH UKRAINE WAS BEING FUNDAMENTALLY UNDERMINE BY A REGULAR INFORMAL CHANNEL U.S. POLICY-MAKING AND BY THE WITHHOLDING OF VITAL SECURITY ASSISTANCE FOR DOMESTIC POLITICAL REASONS.

SECRETARY KERRY, ARE YOU CONCERNED THAT A GROUP OF WHAT LOOKED LIKE TO BE PRESIDENT TRUMP'S FRIENDS ARE TRYING TO DO AN END RUN WHEN IT COMES TO FOREIGN POLICY FOR THEIR OWN BENEFIT RATHER THAN GO THROUGH, YOU KNOW, CIVIL SERVANTS AND FOREIGN SERVICE OFFICERS AS IT SHOULD BE TRADITIONALLY, AND DO YOU THINK THE PRESIDENT SHOULD BE IMPEACHED OVER THIS?

CHRISTIANE, I THINK THE EVIDENCE HAS TO BE EXAMINED HERE.

I DON'T WANT TO DRAW A CONCLUSION ABOUT WHO WAS DOING WHAT EXCEPT OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE VERY LEGITIMATE AND SERIOUS QUESTIONS ABOUT THE -- THE PRESIDENT'S PRIVATE ATTORNEY BEING ENGAGED IN THE WAY THAT HE WAS IN THE CHANNELS OF DIPLOMACY AND PEOPLE BEING REFERRED TO BOTH HIM AND THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES FOR CERTAIN CONVERSATIONS.

THE EVIDENCE IS POWERFUL.

SOME OF IT MORE POWERFUL ALREADY THAN WHAT WE SAW IN THE IMPEACHMENT OF RICHARD NIXON, AND WHAT'S MORE THE EVIDENCE AT THIS POINT IN TIME CERTAINLY MERITS THE INQUIRY THAT IT TAKING PLACE, SO THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY IS 100% LEGITIMATE AND CALLED FOR.

I SUPPORT IT, AND LET'S LET THEM DO THEIR WORK APPROPRIATELY.

THE IT WOULD BE FAR PETTER FOR DEMOCRACY AND THE WHOLE WORLD IF WORLD COULD SEE A CONGRESS IN WHICH EVERYONE WAS RESPECTING THE LEGITIMACY OF THIS PROCESS AND LET THE FACTS TELL STORY.

YOU'RE IN PARIS BECAUSE OF THE CLIMATE CRISIS, AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DO SOMETHING TO MITIGATE FACT THAT THE UNITED STATES IS PULLING OUT OF THE PARIS CLIMATE ACCORD, AND YOU KNOW THAT IN THE LAST DEBATE THERE WAS A LOT CRITICISM THAT NOT A SINGLE QUESTION WAS ASKED OR NOT EVEN THE ISSUE RAISE BY ANY OF THE CANDIDATES ABOUT CLIMATE.

HOW BAD IS THIS SITUATION AND WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO TRY TO DO WITH YOUR NEW INITIATIVE?

THE SITUATION IS FAR MORE SERIOUS.

THE LOOK AT FIRES THAT ARE BURNING IN CALIFORNIA, THE FLOODING TAKING, WHAT I CALL FEEDBACK EVENTS.

IT'S SHOWING EVENTS FASTER THAN WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH RESPECT TO CLIMATE CHANGE, AND IT'S TRAGIC THAT THE UNITED STATES HAS PULLED BACK FROM THE POSITION OF LEADERSHIP THAT PRESIDENT OBAMA SET -- EXECUTED, AND TODAY WE'RE ACTUALLY HEADING TOWARDS ABOUT 4 TO 4.5 DEGREES OF WARMING ON PLANET EARTH.

IT'S ACTUALLY CATASTROPHIC IF THAT'S ALLOWED TO HAPPEN, SO WE NEED TO GEAR UP.

WE NEED TO BEHAVE AS IF WE'RE AT WAR SUM MOPPING OUR PUBLIC WORKS PEOPLE, OUR AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS, THE POEM OF OUR PUBLIC UTILITIES, AND WE NEED TO DECIDE HOW WE'RE GOING TO DECORNIZE FASTER THAN ANY PLAN: CHUCK SCHUMER HAS A GOOD-YARD AND WHAT I'M DOING IS.

THIS IS A NATIONAL SECURITY CONCERN AND A HEALTH CONCERN FOR AMERICANS, AND IT IS A JOBS CONCERN.

GREATEST MARKET IN THE WORLD TODAY IS THE ENERGY MARKET OF THE FUTURE.

I WANT TO SEE AND MANY OF US WANT TO SEE AMERICA LEAD THAT MARKET.

WE WANT TO SEE US DO WHAT'S NECESSARY TO PROVIDE THE TECHNOLOGIES THAT WILL HELP US SOLVE THIS CHALLENGE.

I KNOW WE'RE UP TO THE TASK, BUT WE'RE NOT BEING ASKED TO DO ENOUGH ABOUT IT, AND -- AND SO THIS INITIATIVE, WHICH IS CALLED WORLD WAR ZERO IS AN INITIATIVE THAT I WILL BE TALKING ABOUT TOGETHER WITH ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, CHRISTIE WHITMAN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY AND ERNIE MONIZ AND MANY, MANY OTHERS WHO WILL WORK TO MAKE SURE THAT WE IN BERK DO OUR PART AND.

AND FINALLY, SECRETARIES KERRY, ARE YOU STILL MUSING POTENTIALLY A PRESIDENTIAL BID ITSELF OR ARE YOU DRAWING A LINE IN THE SAND?

I'M NOT.

THAT'S WHERE I'M SPENDING MOST OF MY TIME.

SECRETARY JOHN KERRY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US FROM PARIS.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

THERE WE HAVE CONFIRMATION THAT NOWHERE IS PRESIDENTIAL POWER MORE IMPORTANT THAN IN FOREIGN POLICY, A LESSON WE'RE SEEING IN WHITE HOUSE AND ALSO ON BROADWAY WHERE LYNDON JOHNSON'S PRESIDENCY IS BEING BROUGHT TO LIFE IN 'THE GREAT SOCIETY.'

A CAUTIONARY TALE OF PRESIDENTIAL POWER.

VETERAN ACTOR BRYAN COX SLIPS INTO THE SWING AS THE DOMESTIC AGENDA BECOMES OVERSHADOWED BY THE VIETNAM WAR.

IT'S ONE OF TWO ROLES, GRAPPLING WITH THE RISE AND PITFALLS POWER AS HE STARS IN 'SUCCESSION' WHERE WE PLAYS A RUTHLESS BUSINESSMAN SENDING OFF HIS EQUALLY DIABOLICAL CHILDREN TO PROTECT HIS MEDIA EMPIRE.

HERE'S A CLIP.

♪♪♪

I ALWAYS WANTED ONE OF YOU KIDS TO TAKE OVER.

PEOPLE WOULD DO WELL TO REMEMBER THERE'S GOING TO BE A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN.

HE MOOD ME TO RUN THE COMPANY, KID WILLING?

HEY.

YOUR SISTERS ARE IN JUST FOR DAY.

JUST TO OBSERVE.

OBSERVE WHAT?

IT I LOOK FOR SOME.

YOU'RE OLD.

I DO WHAT I WANT.

DIABOLICAL INDEED AND BRIAN SOX COINS ME HERE IN THE STUDIO.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

GOOD TO BE HERE.

WE'RE GOING TO DISCUSS THESE TWO AMAZING ROLES, UP PRESIDENTIALLY AND THE OTHER A MEDIA MAGNET AND THIS SPEAKS WHO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN REAL LIFE, POLITICAL AND MEDIA POWER.

NEVER THOUGHT I'D IN THIS SITUATION.

THERE YOU GO.

I DON'T KNOW WHEN HAD YOU AGREED TO TAKE THIS.

IT HAPPENED VERY QUICKLY.

WE PREPARED THIS IN THREE WEEKS.

REALLY?

IS IT.

I GOT THE CALL TO SEE IF YOU WERE INTERESTED N DOING THIS, DOING THIS AS A DRAMATIZE READING AND THEN BILL WALSH, HE GOT IN TOUCH WITH ME AND SAID DO YOU THINK YOU'D DO A PROPER PER FORMPS A.

I SAID YOU'LL KILL ME BECAUSE I WAS JUST IN DUBROVNIK AND WE CAME ACROSS.

I HAVE A POWERFUL ASSISTANT THAT HELPS ME AND FOR THE FIRST PREVIEWS I HAD TO HAVE A EAR PIECE LIKE THIS.

REALLY.

HOW DOES THAT WORK, IS IT LIKE A SECOND BEHIND?

IT'S ALMOST INSTANTANEOUSLY AND WAS VERY SKILLED.

I WAS WORRIED ABOUT HIM BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN DEAF AS A CHILD IRONICALLY, AND HE CAME AND THEN FOR THE FIRST WEEK IT WAS -- AND SUDDENLY HE'S STILL WITH ME, BUT OCCASIONALLY IF I PAUSE, AND I SAY NO, IT'S OKAY.

YOU KNOW IT.

YOU DON'T HAVE TO TELL ME.

YOU KNOW IT NOW?

I DO KNOW IT NOW.

I HAVE NOPE IT FOR SOME WEEKS.

HOW DID YOU DECIDE TO TAKE THIS ROLE?

WHAT ABOUT LBJ AND THIS PARTICULAR PART THAT'S THE LATTER PART HIS PRESIDENCY THE GREAT SOCIETY?

IT'S 30 YEARS THAT YOU HAVEN'T DONE THIS ON BROADWAY.

WELL, THIS IS THE -- BOB HAS WRIT ENAN -- IT'S LIKE TEAM WHEN I WAS AT THE RSC DOING STUFF FOR NATIONAL THEATER AND I HAD TO CALL ON MY OLD SEARCH AND A GREAT APPEAL, THE FIRST APPEAL WAS LBJ LOOKED VERY MUCH LIKE MY FATHER, AND I WAS ALWAYS PREDID I POSED AND THEN HE BECAME A VILLAIN AND AT A DISTANCE WE DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHAT HAS HAPPENING AND WITH BOB'S PLAY AND ALSO LISTENING TO THE LBJ TAPES I BUILT UP THIS PICTURE OF AN EXTRAORDINARILY COMPLICATED WHEELER-WHEELER MAN WHICH IS WHAT HE HAS IN COMMON WITH LOGAN ROY.

LOGAN ROY IN 'SUCCESSION.'

LOGAN ROY IN 'SUCCESSION.'

HE WAS ASTONISHING.

GOT 104 BILLS THROUGH IN HIS FIRST TERM, FIRST PROPER TERM.

HE TOOK OVER AFTER KENNEDY'S ASSASSINATION AND THEN HE BECAME A PROPER PRESIDENT AND HE GOT MEDICARE, VOTING RIGHTS, CIVIL RIGHTS AND ALL THE OTHER PROGRAMS.

HE'S NOT PHONE FOR THAT, BUT WHAT HE DID WAS CREATE THE GREAT SOCIETY.

UNTIL VIETNAM DID HIM IN ESSENTIALLY.

VIETNAM WAS DREADFUL, AND VIETNAM CAME FROM THIS FEAR OF COMMUNISM BECAUSE WE HAD JUST COME OUT OF THE McCARTHY PERIOD SO THAT WAS STILL ON THE HORIZON AND PAST, AND ALSO HE HAD -- HE INHERITED KENNEDY'S ADMINISTRATION AND THERE WERE QUITE A FEW HAWKS IN KENNEDY'S ADMINISTRATION WHO WERE -- THIS KIND OF COMMUNIST FEAR WAS QUITE STRONG, PARTICULARLY WITH THE GENERALS.

AND YOUR PLAY DOES NOT SORT OF SHY AWAY FROM THIS.

THERE IS A TICKER THROUGHOUT THE PLAY.

AND NUMBER OF DEAD MOUNTS THROUGHOUT THE PLAY.

THE NUMBER OF U.S. DEAD MOUNTS THROUGHOUT THE PLAY.

IT'S A TERRIBLE TRAGEDY.

THE VIETNAM WAR, IT'S HARD TO TALK ABOUT BECAUSE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO -- THE SURVIVORS AND ALSO THE PEOPLE WHO LOST PEOPLE IN THAT.

IT'S A VERY HARD WAR TO TALK ABOUT, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE SUCH A NEEDLESS WAR XWL DOES IT STRIKE YOU, I MEAN, EVERYTHING IS POLITICAL, SUPPORT IT, EVERYTHING HAPPENS THROUGH THE LENS OF WHATEVER WE'RE GOING THROUGH HERE IN THE WORLD, HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, BRITAIN WITH BREXIT OR IN EUROPE, WHEREVER IT MIGHT BE, IT SEEMS THAT THE POLITICAL LENS IS SHAPING EVERYTHING FROM ARTS TO CULTURE AND THE ECONOMY.

THERE'S A BIT OF CRAZINESS AT THE MOMENT.

AND ONE OF THE REVIEWERS SAYS OF YOU THAT YOU DEMONSTRATE THE SUBLIME SWINGS FROM BULLISHNESS AND CRIPPLING GUILT THAT CAPTURED THE REAL JOHNSONS NOTORIOUSLY VOLATILE MOODS.

DESCRIBE HIM AS A LEADER WHO WAS VOLATILE -- HE CAME FROM POOR STOCK.

HE WAS A TEACHER ON BORDER SO HE WOULD HAVE HAD A LOT TO SAY ON WHAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW ON THE BORDER, AND THAT'S HIS MOTIVATING FORCE, THE FACT THAT HE WAS A TEACHER.

HE WAS ALSO POLITICALLY AMBITIOUS AND WANT TO BE PRESIDENT.

IT WASN'T GOING TO GO HIS WAY INITIALLY AND PROBABLY NEVER WOULD HAVE APART FROM TRAGEDY OF KENNEDY WHICH BROUGHT HIM INTO FOCUS AND HE WAS INCREDIBLY CHARMING.

HE WAS A GREAT WITH THE LADIES, A WONDERFUL, WONDERFUL CONVERSATION WITH HIM AND JACKIE KENNEDY.

THING I PICKED UP, AND IT'S ONLY WEEKS AFTER OF PRESIDENT JOP'S ASSASSINATION, AND SHE'S VERY -- SHE KIND OF MELTS WHEN SHE TALKS TO HIM, AND HE HAS THIS TEXAS CHARM THAT HE USED, AND HE SAYS IT'S -- YOU CAN HARDLY HEAR HER.

SHE SAYS, YOU KNOW, MR. PRESIDENT, I'VE HAD MORE LETTERS FROM YOU THAN I'VE EVER HAD FROM JOHN, AND SO IT'S -- THAT IS WHAT HE DID.

HE SHOWED CARE.

HE SHOWED GREAT ATTENTION IT.

A LOT OF PEOPLE THOUGHT HE WAS FAKE BUT HE WASN'T.

HE WAS JUST THAT KIND OF MAN.

HE HAD THAT SORT OF CHARISMA.

THE PLAYWRIGHT HAS DESCRIBED THIS SORT OF ARC FROM 'THE GREAT SOCIETY' WHICH YOU'RE IN NOW TO THE ONE YOU DID BEFORE.

YOURS IS SORT OF A SEQUEL TO ALL THE WAY, AND BRIAN KRANTZON PLAYED JOHNSON IN THAT AND I INTERVIEWED HIM ABOUT IT.

LET JUST PLAY THE FOLLOWING.

LET'S HEAR WHAT HE HAD TO SAY ABOUT JOHNSON THAT TIME.

IN JOHNSON'S DAY HE SOCIALIZED WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE HOUSE AND THE SENATE AND GOT TO KNOW THEM UPPED THAT BASIS AND KNOW THEIR WIVES AND SOME OF THEIR THIN SO THAT WHEN IT CAME TIME TO EUROPE OUT ISSUES, THEY DEPARTMENT WANT TO THROW EACH OTHER UNDER THE BESS OR MENTION ANY VITRIOLIC STATEMENTS BECAUSE THEY LIKED THEM AND THEY WANTED TO FIND SOLID GROUND.

DOESN'T SOUND LIKE WASHINGTON IS THAT WAY ANYLONGER.

THAT'S INCREDIBLY ACCURATE.

TALKS ABOUT HOW POLITICAL PROCESS HAS CHANGED, AND, BOY, DO WE SEE IT RIGHT NEW.

THE POLARIZATION IS RIDICULOUS AT THE MOMENT.

YOU KNOW, YOU'RE ASKING FOR PARTICULARLY AT THIS TIME, AND THERE WAS -- THERE WAS ALWAYS A MORAL CENTER PRESENT IN THOSE DAYS.

EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A LOT OF MACHINATION AND ALL THOSE THINGS GOING ON.

DIRKSON WHO WAS THE SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, HE WAS THE MINORITY LEADER ACTUALLY, AND HE WAS A GREAT FRIEND AND THERE WAS A CAMARADERIE BETWEEN THEM AS BRIAN RIGHTLY SAYS, AND WE NEED A THAT, MORAL ASSERTION, BECAUSE IT'S THE MORAL ASSERT THAT PROVIDES THE BALANCE, THAT GETS YING AND THE WAY AND THEY NEED SOMEONE LIKE ROMNEY TO STEP UP AND SAY I WANT TO REDISCOVER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

THAT'S ALL WELL AND GOOD.

DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE ARE TOUR WHO HAVE STEPPED UP TO CHALLENGE THE PRESIDENT IN THE.

THERE'S SO MUCH -- COULD I'M TWO PARTIES COULD WALK ACROSS THE AISLE THE WAY THEY USED TO AND THINGS WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER.

JOHNSON, AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME WHEN YOU'RE PLAYING HIM, IS WAY DOWN BY REALIZATION THAT AMERICA'S FRACTURES RAN DEEPER THAN POLITICAL PRAGMATISM.

YES.

WE'RE SEEING ACTUALLY REAL AMERICA.

ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

WE HAVE COSMETICALLY SOL.

BLACK AND WHITE DID I VOID WAS THE PRETTY HORRENDOUS.

THINGS THAT WENT ON FOR SELMA, DOW TORE AND THE WONDERFUL WORK GOING ON, BUT IT WASN'T POLITICAL.

AN IT -- THERE'S A MOMENT AT THE END OF THE PLAY THAT I LOVE.

IT'S A MOMENT WHERE I'M JUST STANDING, BOBBY KENNEDY ON ONE SIDE AND MARTIN LIEUTENANT ERR ON ONE SIDE.

IT'S MARTIN LUTHER'S LAST WORDS BEFORE HE WAS ASSASSINATED AND BOBBY'S LAST WORDS BEFORE HE WAS ASSASSINATED, AND YOU HAVE THIS SENSE OF A WORLD THAT WAS REALLY EXTRAORDINARILY POSSIBLE AT THAT TIME WHICH BECAME INTERRUPT, AND I THINK WE STILL LIVE IN A LEGACY OF THAT IN A WAY, AND I -- AND WE'VE KIND OF LOST THE WAY I THINK.

WELL, INTERESTINGLY YOU SAY WE'VE LOST THE WAY.

I MEAN, IT'S SUCH A MASSIVE ROLE FOR THE PRESS THAT'S BEING PLAYED RIGHT NOW AND A ROLE AGAINST THE PRESS AND A ROLE WITHIN, LIKE A WAR AMONGST MEMBERS OF THE PRESS.

JOHNSON FAMOUSLY WAS UNDONE BY THE GREAT WALTER CRONKITE.

THAT'S RIGHT, THAT'S RIGHT.

AND SAILED WHAT HE SAID ABOUT NEW YORK AND HE SAID IF I'VE LOST CRONKITE OR SOMETHING TO THAT EFFECT.

AND HE SAID IF YOU LOSE CRON CITE, YOU'VE LOST -- CRONKITE WAS ACTUALLY BALANCED, DIDN'T ATTACK JOHNS OP.

HE JUST SAID, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD JUST WRAP UP NOW.

AND JOHNSON, YOU KNOW, HE UNDERSTOOD AND HE DID NOT DECIDE TO RUN FOR THAT NEXT TERM.

JUST IN THE LAST 24 HOURS PRESIDENT TRUMP, WE HAVE HEARD, YOU KNOW, FROM THE WHITE HOUSE THAT THEY HAVE DECIDED TO CANCEL THEIR SUBSCRIPTIONS TO THE 'NEW YORK TIMES' AND 'THE WASHINGTON POST' AND ALSO URGING ALL OF THE OTHER FEDERAL AGENCIES TO CANCEL THEIR SUBSCRIPTIONS TO TWOESHTS AND 'NEW YORK TIMES.'

OBVIOUSLY THAT LEADS ME TO YOUR ROLE OF SUCCESSION WHERE, I DON'T KNOW, DO YOU THINK THAT IT'S A -- THERE ARE ELEMENTS, ALWAYS ELEMENTS WHEN FAMILIES GET THAT AMOUNT OF POWER.

IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE.

THE REDSTONES, THERE'S CONRAD BLACK, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ELEMENTS OF A LOT OF FAMILIES IN THERE, BUT ACTUALLY IT'S NOT.

IT'S THE ROY FAMILY.

IT'S THIS MODERN DAY AROUND THE BIG DIFFERENCE IS THE THING THAT ROY AND --

HE'S PATRIARCH.

YOU PLAY -- LOGAN ROY IS THE PATRIARCH.

HE COMES FROM NOWHERE.

HE IS -- A -- SO HIS BACK GROUND IS REALLY DARK.

CLEARLY ABUSED IN SOME WAY SO WE SEE THIS MAN WHO HAS REALLY LOST FAITH IN HUMANITY, AND, OF COURSE, MANY IS A SUBSTITUTE, YOU KNOW.

HE'S -- THE QUOTE THAT HE DOES -- I CAN'T SWEAR ON TELEVISION, OF COURSE.

WE'LL BLEEP IT.

IT'S ALWAYS DIFFICULT BUT HE NEEDS A AMERICAN FAMILIAR LITTLE NAMED THE PIERCES, AND SHE QUOTES SHAKESPEARE.

HE SAYS MY FAVORITE SHAKESPEARE QUOTE IS TAKE THE F'ING MONEY, THAT'S HIS FAVORITE, AND, OF COURSE, YOU GO HOW DO I MAKE THAT -- AND I GO, WELL, HE'S FALLEN AND HE'S SOMEWHERE DOWN AND HE'S LOST AGAIN SOME KIND OF PERSPECTIVE ON HIS LIFE AND THEREFORE PEDED TO THIS THING AND HIS -- I WANT TO PLAY A LITTLE CRIP.

IT HAS GONE A BIT VIRUS.

YOUR FIRST BORN SON KENDALL.

HAS AGREED TO TAKE THE FALL FOR YOU OVER A COMPANY SCANDAL, BUT THEN HE INSTEAD BETRAYS YOU AND THROWS YOU TO THE WOLVES ON NATIONAL TELEVISION SO WE'LL TAKE A LOOK AT THIS SCENE AND YOUR REACTION.

HOW MUCH THOSE OF US WHO EXECUTED HIS WISHES BEAR RESPONSIBILITY IS FOR ANOTHER DAY, BUT I THINK THIS IS THE DAY HIS REIN ENDS.

♪♪♪

ARE WE PROVIDING THE DOCUMENTS AND MAY ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE IN THE COMING DAYS.

THANK YOU.

♪♪♪

AND THAT, THE FAINTEST HINT OF A SMIRK, HAS SET THE INTERNET ON FIRE.

IT'S GONE VIRAL.

WHAT THE IS ALL THAT ABOUT?

IT'S THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, HE HAS A SPEECH AND HIS SON ACTUALLY KIND OF DRAGS IT OUT OF HIM.

HE SAYS DO YOU THINK I COULD HAVE EVER RUN COUNTRY -- THE COMPANY, AND HE SAID, WELL, THE PROBLEM IS THAT YOU'RE NOT A KILLER, YOU KNOW, AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A KILLER MENTALITY, AND -- AND IN A RAY IT'S LIKE GIVING THE ROW VERBAL TO THE PROVERBIAL AND HE SAYS THE SON GOES AWAY AND EVERYBODY INTERPRETS IT'S A JUDAS KISS AND HE GOES OFF AND BETRAYS HIS DEAD.

HE'S KIND OF.

ARE YOU SURE THIS ISN'T MURDOCHIAN?

WELL, I DON'T KNOW, I THINK THAT'S LIVE AND ABOUT YOUR CHILDREN, WHAT YOU WANT FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND HOW YOU WANT THEM TO SURVIVE AND IT'S ABOUT THE SURVIVING MECHANISM THAT COMES IN.

I REMEMBER WITH MY KIDS, STILL HAVE TEENAGE KIDS BUT I'VE GOT OLDER KIDS AS WELL THAT I REALLY WANTED THEM TO GET OUT OF THE HOUSE AT 16 SO THEY CAN GET ON WITH THEIR LIVES.

GOAL, 16.

I WAS THE SAME.

I WAS OUT OF THE HOUSE AT 11 BECAUSE MY MOTHER WAS -- MY FATHER DIED WHEN I WAS 8 AND MY MOTHER WAS INSTITUTIONALIZED SO I WAS OUT OF THE HOUSE SO I HAD TO LEARN TO BE A WESTERN, YOU KNOW.

WE'RE VERY LUCKY.

I ENVY PEOPLE WHO HAVE A PARENT AND I PLAY PARENT AND I GO I'M NOT THE GREAT.

AND I SAID DON'T YOU LOVE -- THAT'S THE KEY TO HIM.

HE LOSS OF HIS CHILDRENLY PEEPERY AND HE CREATES A WORLD FOR HIM, THE WORLD OF ENTITLEMENT, AND WE SEE IT ALL THE TIME ON THE NEWS.

VERY QUICKLY WE'RE SEEING IT ON THE NEWS, ENTITLEMENT.

SOME WOULD SAY THE BREXITEER COME FROM A VERY LARGE BACKGROUND.

DON'T GET ME STARTED.

YOU ARE SCOTTISH.

YEAH.

YOU ARE VERY PASSIONATE FOR -- DO YOU THINK IT'S SOMETHING ON THE TABLE NOW.

I THINK IT'S NO LONGER A UNITED KINGDOM AND.

I WAS A LABOR MAN AND GREAT SOCIAL IT AND I DID ALL OF THAT, AND I WAS THE HUBRIS OF HONEY PLAYER AND THE HOLE THING OF THE AND THEN I SEE.

THE NATIONAL LIKE THAT WORTH.

PEOPLE WITH MORE EGALITARIAN PRINCIPLES.

IT'S ALL ON THE LINE RIGHT NOW.

YOU'RE RIGHT.

OUR NEXT GUEST HAS CHOSEN A VERY DIFFERENT PATH.

FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE.

MAYA MOORE HAS BEEN CALLED THE GREATEST WINNER IN THE HISTORY OF WOMEN'S BASKETBALL, AND NOW AT THE HEIGHT OF HER CAREER WITH THE NBA, WNBA, SHE STEPPED HER FANS AND THE SPORTS WORLD BY ANNOUNCING THAT SHE'S TAKING A SAMBAT CAMP HER DESTINATION, A MAXIM SECURITY IS SERVING A FOO-YEAR-OLD SENTENCE AND SHE SAT DOWN WITH OUR MICHELLE MAR SIN TO DESCRIBING.

MAYA MOORE, THANKS SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

ABSOLUTELY.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

I OBVIOUSLY WANT TO FOCUS ON ONE OF THE PARTICULAR CASES, A YOUNG MAN NAMED JOSH IRONS, WHO YOU'VE KNOWN FOR TEN YEARS.

YOU'RE AT THE PEEK YOUR GAME AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE JOINED IT JUST HART TO TO CLACK INNING.

I'VE BEEN PARTICULARLY KWOEK IS THIS YEARS ON THE YOUNG MAN, YOUR ENTIRE FAMILY AS IIES IT.

COME US THE.

HE GREW UP HE WAS BASICALLY RAISED BY HIS GREAT AUNT WHO HE CALLS HIS GRANDMOTHER AND BY THE TIME HE GETS TO MIDDLE SCHOOL, HIGH SCHOOL, TIRED OF BEING SCARED AND GETS CAUGHT UP IN GANG LIFE.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S A STORY THAT HAPPENS MORE THAN WE WOULD HOPE SO HE'S LIVING ON HIS OERNG LIVING IN THE STREET AND WHEN HE'S 16 HE GETS PICKED UP BY THE POLICE AND CHASED DOWN AND TACKLED AND BROUGHT TO TWO DIFFERENT JAILS AND INTERROGATED WITHOUT AN ADULT, INTERROGATED WITHOUT IT BEING RECORDED OR NOTES SAVED, CHARGED FOR A CRIME AND AN ARMED BURGLARY ATTEMPT.

IN 1997, NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, NO DNA, NO DNA FOOTPRINT OR EVIDENCE TYING HIM TO THE SCENE YEARS, FOR 40 YEARS.

AND --. I MET JONATHAN WAS I WAS I LEARNED ABOUT HIS LIFE AND MY EYES WERE OPENED TO THE HUGE INCARCERATION PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IN OUR COUNTRY AND THREE YEARS AGO I STARTED TO LEARN MORE ABOUT THE ROLE OUR PROSECUTORS PLAY IN OR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND HOW THEY ARE THE MOST POWERFUL ACTORS IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM BECAUSE THEY BASICALLY SET THE RULES OF THE GUAM AND ARE IN CHARGE OF WHAT CHARGES ARE BROUGHT AND IF MINEORS ARE CHARGED AS ADULTS AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

I'VE JUST BEEN ON THIS UN

Y OF LEARNING HAVING MY EYES OPENED, BUT IT'S CONNECTED TO AN ACTUAL PERSON AND SO IT'S VERY REAL TO MEAL.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE VERY CYNICAL ABOUT PEOPLE LOCKED UP.

THIS IS JUST A COMMONVIEW AND EVERYBODY SAYS THEY ARE INNOCENT OR GOT FRAMED.

RIGHT.

WHO IS IT ABOUT YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS.

WAS IT THE FACT SEEMED SO OUTRAGEOUS OR PERSONALITY.

HE LOCKED NO JONATHAN'S GAYS, ONE OF THE KEY REASON WE'RE HERE TODAY, MY GODFATHER, REGGIE WILLIAMS, AND LOOKED AT THE POLICE STATION AND LOOKED AT THE FILE AND SAW THINGS, DID RESEARCH, AND THE MORE HE MORE HE DUG THE MORE AND MORE HE FOUND THAT THIS CASE WAS OUT OF CONTROL, AND HE -- HIS MIND WAS BOG YOU HAD OF HOW THIS YOUNG MAN WAS PUT AWAY WITH THE EVIDENCE THAT WAS AVAILABLE.

THAT HE -- I THINK AFTER MY GOOD MOTHER AND GOT, THEY FELT COMPELLED TO SIGNIFICANT WITH IT AND TRY TO HELP.

GIVE ME A EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THAT HE SOMEHOW IN HIS FILE THAT HAS COMPELLED --

THE MORE AND MORE YOU LOOK AT HILLS.

HE WAS INTERROGATED WITHOUT AN ADULT.

NOBODIES, EVENT EVENTS.

NOT PHYSICAL EVIDENCE, NO DNA, NOTHING TYING HIM TO THE SCENE OF THE CRIME.

ALIBIED WITNESSES WERE NEVER CALLED TO TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT HE WASN'T AT THE CRIME SCENE AT THE TIME.

THERE WERE NUMEROUS ELEMENTS OF FAULTY EYEWITNESS PRACTICES LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE VICTIM OF THIS BURGLARY INITIALLY SAID HE COULDN'T IDENTIFY WHO THE INTRUDER ROSS, AND THE PRISS TOLD HIM TO GIVE HIS BEST GUESTS.

WHEN SOMEONE SELLS YOU TO GIMP YOUR --

THAT'S AN UN -- THERE'S A MILLION DOLLAR.

FOR A 16-YEAR-OLD WITHOUT A DRIVER'S LICENSE.

A 50-YEAR SENTENCE FOR A NON-FATAL BURGLARY ATTEMPT.

DO YOU HAVE A THEORY WHY HE GOT SUCH A HARSH SENTENCE?

YEAH.

I THINK THE POLITICAL CLIMATE IN THE LATE '90s SET HIM UP FOR A TIME OF USING HIM TO MAKE HIM AN EXAMPLE.

HE WAS ABSOLUTELY OVERSENTENCED.

WHOEVER DID THIS BURGLARY WOULD HAVE BEEN OVERSENTENCED BECAUSE HE DIDN'T PLEAD GUILTY.

HE HAS TO 50 YEARS AND 65-YEAR SENTENCE ACTUALLY AND SO THAT IS NO QUESTION YOU BE ETHICAL.

DID HE HAVE A LAWYER?

HAD A PUBLIC DEFENDER WHO CAME TO THE EVIDENTLY HEARING ON OCTOBER 9th JUST RECENTLY AND SHE TALKED ABOUT THE THINGS THAT SHE DID WELL, AND SHE TALKED ABOUT THE THINGS THAT SHE MISSED.

SHE WAS VERY HONEST AND SHE WAS REALLY JUST HONEST ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AND ONE OF THE MAIN THINGS SHE WAS HONEST ABOUT WAS THE FACT THAT THERE WAS FINGERPRINT EVIDENCE THAT SHE DIDN'T HAVE AVAILABLE TO HER AT THE TIME, THAT THE PROSECUTION HAD AND THAT'S CALLED A BRADY VIOLATION.

ONE OF THE MAIN EFFORTS OF OUR PETITION IS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THERE WAS EVIDENCE WITHHELD AT HIS ORIGINAL TRIAL AROUND SOME REALLY MEANINGFUL FINGERPRINT EVIDENCE WHO COULD POINT TO WHO ACTUALLY DID THE CRIME.

I WANT YOU TO BE AWARE.

IN A CRIMINAL MATTER IF THE PROSECUTION HAS EVIDENCE IT HAS TO BE SHARED WITH THE DEFENSE SO THEY CAN EVALUATE IT APPROPRIATELY, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HEAR.

I WANT TO POINT OUT ABOUT THE EVIDENTIARY HEARING THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED ON OCTOBER 1th.

THIS IS THE FIRST TIME AS I UNDERSTAND IT THAT A -- THAT A FORMAL PROCESS TO LOOK AT HIS CASE HAS TAKEN PLACE IN SOME TIME NOW.

TELL ME WHAT WAS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS HEARING ON OCTOBER 9th.

WHAT HAPPENED ON OCTOBER 9th IS SO SIGNIFICANT.

IT'S VERY RARE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE IN PRISON TO GET A CHANCE TO GET AS FAR AS WE HAVE SO FAR TO AN EVIDENTIARY HEARING.

YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH NUMEROUS STEPS IF YOU'RE TRYING TO GET EXONERATED AND JUDGE DANIEL GREEN WHO HAS THE DECISION ON THIS CASE, HAS MOVED THIS CASE FORWARD AND RESPECTED IT AND TAKEN IT SERIOUSLY, SO WE'RE SO GRATEFUL TO GET TO OCTOBER 9th A FEW WEEKS AGO WHERE JUDGE GREEN ALLOWED JONATHAN'S LEGAL TEAM TO FULLY DISCLOSE ALL OF THE EVIDENCE THAT WE'VE BEEN SITTING ON AND KNOWING ABOUT FOR 145 YEARS AND WE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THE BRADY VIOLATIONS AND GOT TO TALK ABOUT THE FAULTY EYEWITNESS PROCEDURES THAT THE POLICE USED DURING THE INITIAL TRIAL.

JONATHAN GOT TO FINALLY SPEAK AND SHARE HIS EXPERIENCE AS A 16-YEAR-OLD FOR THE FIRST TIME AND WHAT HE WENT THROUGH AND HOW HE WAS INTERROGATED.

HE GOT TO TALK ABOUT THE FORGIVENESS THAT HE HAS FOR THE VICTIM OF THIS CRIME EVEN THOUGH HE WAS MANIPULATED IN THE EYEWITNESS PROCESS AND THE COMPASSIONATE JONATHAN HAS FOR VICTIMS SO HE NEEDS TO GET JUSTICE STILL.

THE HEARING WAS SEVEN HOURS LONG.

WE WITH A ONE-HOUR LUNCH BREAK, AND IT IS A SOMETHING UNLIKE I'VE EVER EXPERIENCE, JUST SITTING FOR HOUR AFTER HOUR, WATCHING THE TRUTH COME OUT AND WATCHING THE STATE TRY TO FIGHT AGAINST THE FACTS AND AT EVIDENCE OF THE BRADY VIOLATIONS AND UNRELIABLE EYEWITNESS EVIDENCE.

YOU HAVE DRAFTED A LETTER WHICH I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE GOING TO SEND TO IT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OF MISSOURI.

APPARENTLY YOU'RE VERY DISAPPOINTED AT WHAT YOU SAW AND THE WAY THAT THE STATE CONDUCTED ITSELF.

TELL ME MORE ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT BOTHERS YOU.

I'VE WRITTEN A LETTER TO THE MISSOURI ATTORNEY GENERAL ERIC SCHMIDT, AND I JUST WANTED TO CONNECT WITH HIM AND JUST SHARE WITH HIM MY EXPERIENCE BECAUSE I'VE BEEN IN -- IN THE COURT.

I'VE BEEN IN DIFFERENT COURTS THROUGHOUT MY LIFE, BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A COURT SETTING QUITE LIKE THAT ON OCTOBER 9th WHERE WE SAT AGAIN FOR SEVEN HOURS AND LISTENED TO THE FACTS, THE EVIDENCE COME OUT, AND I KNOW IT'S THE JOB OF THE STATE TO QUESTION AND TO TRY TO GET TO THE TRUTH, BUT THERE WERE SEVERAL POINTS THROUGHOUT THE DAY WHERE IT WAS VERY OBVIOUS THAT THE STATE WAS JUST ABOUT MAINTAINING THE WIN AND NOT ACTUALLY TRYING TO SEE THE TRUTH OF THE EVIDENCE, AND SO THIS ISN'T JUST A PROCESS OR SOMETHING THAT WE COME DO EVERY DAY.

THIS IS SOMEONE'S ACTUAL LIFE IF WE DON'T DO THE RIGHT THING THEY GO BACK TO A BOX, SO I WAS JUST SHOCKED, AND I WANTED TO SHARE THAT WITH ATTORNEY GENERAL SCHMIDT TO SEE IF HE COULD HELP BE A PART OF CHANGING THE NARRATIVE FROM INJUSTICE TO JUSTICE AS SO MANY OF US IN MY HOME STATE OF MISSOURI LOOK TO HIM FOR.

WE'RE IN A TIME WHEN AS YOU KNOW THAT ATHLETES GETTING INVOLVED IN SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES IS CONTROVERSIAL.

I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY PEOPLE BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IF YOU'RE A PERSON OF PRIVILEGE YOU SHOULD USE THE PRIVILEGE TO HELP THOSE THAT ARE LESS FORTUNATE AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE NOT REACTING WELL TO THIS.

YOU AS A PLAYER IN RESPONSE TO A NUMBER OF INCIDENTS OF TEAM VIOLENCE YOU AND TEAMMATES HAVE DONNED T-SHIRTS TO SAY BLACK LIVES MATTER AND LEAGUE DID NOT NECESSARILY APPRECIATE THAT, AND I JUST WANTED TO ASK WHAT KIND OF REACTION THAT YOU'RE GETTING.

ATHLETES ARE HUMAN BEINGS, FIRST AND FOREMOST.

HE EAR CITIZENS AND WE'RE MORE THAN WHAT WE DO ON SCREEN.

WE CAN ABSOLUTE THE ATHLETES BETTER AND REMEMBER THAT THE FANS ARE PEOPLE, DORE, AND WHEN WE TAKE THE TIME TO SHINE A LIGHT IN A DARK PLACE NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO LIKE IT WHEN IT COSTS YOU YOUR COMFORT OR IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO ACCEPT OUT AND ENJOY.

I GET THAT.

ENTERTAINMENT IS A PLACE TO ENJOY AND BE ENTERTAINEDED AND WE'RE IN A WORLD WHERE THE WORLD IS BROKEN SO HATS OFF TO THOSE WHO SACRIFICED AND PAY THE COST OF HAVING A PLATFORM, MONEY.

AT THE END.

DAY IF WE REMEMBER THAT WE'RE -- A NUMBER OF ATHLETES ARE ADVOCATING ON BEHALF OF PARTICULAR INDIVIDUALS WHERE THEY SEE THE FACTS WARRANT.

KIM KARDASHIAN WEST COMES TO MIND.

SOME OF THESE HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL, BUT SOME OF THESE HAVE NOT.

IF JONATHAN IS NOT RELEASED.

IF HE DOESN'T ACHIEVE CLEMENCY OR PERHAPS BETTER THAN THAT, EXONERATION, WILL YOUR FAITH BE TESTED?

DO YOU FEEL THIS WILL HAVE BEEN WORTH IT?

ABSOLUTELY.

I HAVE NO REGRETS, YOU KNOW.

WE -- WE ULTIMATELY DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ANCHORS OUR WHOLE FAMILY IS FOLLOWING THAT GOD IS SOVEREIGN AND WE'RE ANCHORED IN FAITH AND WE KNOW THAT IT'S ULTIMATELY NOT IN OUR HANDS, BUT ANY ROLE THAT WE CAN PLAY IN PUSHING TOWARDS JUSTICE, WE'LL PUT OUR HEAD DOWN AND PURSUE THAT, JUST LIKE I WOULD PURSUE A CHAMPIONSHIP.

IT'S DEFINITELY BEEN A WILD RIDE BUT WE JUST TRY TO FOCUS ON THE BEST OUTCOME RIGHT NOW.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU ALSO WANT TO FOCUS ON THE PROCESS, THAT YOUR PARTICULAR ADVOCACY IS FOCUSED ON JONATHAN, THIS PERSON THAT YOU KNOW BUT YOU ALSO WANT TO -- ROMANIA IL -- UNDERSTANDING AND ONE THING WE'VE REALIZED THIS IS MORE THAN JONATHAN, NOT AN ISOLATED CASE.

THEE YEARS AGO I STARTED A NONPROFIT FOR ATHLETES WOMEN PACT CALLED WIN WITH JUSTICE WHICH FOCUS ON REDEFINING WHAT A WIN IS IN OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM AND FOCUSING ON PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT AND PROSECUTORS HAVE AN ENORMOUS AMOUNT OF POWER AND WHEN PROSECUTORS ARE FOCUSED MORE ON GETTING A CONVICTION AND, PEOPLE SUFFER, ESPECIALLY PEOPLE IN BLACK AND BROWN BODIES.

I'VE BEEN ABLE TO EDUCATE MYSELF, ESPECIALLY IN THE PAST THREE YEARS, TO LEARN ABOUT THIS GREATER ISSUE, ISSUES LIKE THE FACT THAT OVER 10,000 PEOPLE A YEAR MAY BE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED OF CRIMES.

WE HAVE KIDS THAT ARE BEING OVERSENTENCED, THROWN AWAY IN THE SYSTEM BEFORE THEIR BRAINS ARE FULL EL DEVELOPED.

LEARNING FROM JONATHAN I JUST FEEL XEMD TO HELP OTHER PEOPLE LEARN BECAUSE WHEN YOU EDUCATE YOUR NEIGHBOR AND THE PEOPLE YOU, IT TAKES IT VERY.

THIS IS A PLATFORM TO TALK ABOUT JONATHAN'S CASE AND ALSO GET EDUCATES ON HOW TO HELP AND HOW TO MAKE THEIR COMMUNITIES STRONGER.

WHAT'S NEXT FOR YOU YOU?

DO YOU THINK YOU'LL GO BACK TO.

A COUPLE OF PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED TO ME MIKE YOU HAVE YOU HAD GO TO HIGH SCHOOL.

I'LL.

I'M STILL AWAY FROM THE NAME AND I'LL CALM BACK TO THE, AND I'M LITERALLY TRYING TO MAKE IT ONE DAY AT A TIME AND FINISH 1/4ER OF A VERY LONG BATTLE.

A INSPIRING EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE WILLING TO WALK AWAY FROM STUPE STARDOM TO FIGHT FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS RIGHT.

THAT'S OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

FOLLOW ME AND MICHELLE ON TWITTER.

THANKS FOR WATCHING 'AMANPOUR & CO.' AN PBS AND JOIN US AGAIN NEXT TIME.