October 29, 2024

>>> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO AMANPOUR & COMPANY.

HERE IS WHAT IS COMING UP.

>>> AMID DEVASTATION IN GAZA, A PITCH FOR PEACE.

THE FORMER IS REALLY PRIME MINISTER, AND THE FORMER PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY FOREIGN MINISTER JOIN ME ON THEIR PLAN TO END AT THE FIGHTING, AND BRING THE HOSTAGES HOME.

>>> THEN, BACK FROM GAZA, AN AMERICAN DOCTOR TELLS ME WHAT HE SAW WITH HIS OWN EYES.

>>> AND -- >> WE ARE HERE TOGETHER BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY.

WE LOVE OUR COUNTRY!

>> I AM ASKING YOU TO BE, FOR THE FIRST TIME IN FOUR YEARS, BE EXCITED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY AGAIN.

>> CAMPAIGN CUT THAT COOKING TIME WITH ONE WEEK TO GO INTO AMERICA BOTH.

OF THE RACE.

>>> PLUS, DISPATCH FROM SMALL TOWN, PENNSYLVANIA.

WRITER --TELLS WALTER ISAACSON THE THREE FACTORS THAT WILL DECIDE THE ELECTION.

>> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST.

MARK J. BLECHNER, THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION , SETON J. MELVIN, THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING THE DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITY.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.

AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION BY VIEWERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

I AM CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

WE HAVE NOTHING TO HELP BUT OUR BARE HANDS.

THOSE WORDS OF UTTER DESPAIR IN GAZA AFTER A STRIKE ON A MULTISTORY BUILDING THIS MORNING KILLED ALMOST 100 PEOPLE.

OF THE HEALTH MINISTRY THERE SAYS.

PALESTINIANS AT THE SCENE SAID BODIES WERE EVERYWHERE, SOME BEING BURIED IMMEDIATELY IN MAKESHIFT GRAVES BECAUSE OFFICIAL BARRIER SITES ARE TOO DANGEROUS TO ACCESS.

MORE THAN A YEAR IN GAZA AND NOW LEBANON HAS KILLED TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE.

ALTHOUGH CEASE-FIRE TALKS ARE UNDERWAY, A BREAKTHROUGH SEEMS UNLIKELY.

ON SUNDAY, EGYPT REPORTEDLY PROPOSED A TWO DAY CEASE-FIRE, ONLY FOR PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU'S OFFICE TO SAY THEY HAD RECEIVED NO SUCH PROPOSALS.

MOREOVER, ACCORDING TO ISRAELI MEDIA, NETANYAHU'S THE SENSE -- DEFENSE --IS SAYING THE WORD LUCKY SHAJI AND NEEDS A RESET.

AN UNLIKELY PAIR -- ISRAELI AND PALESTINIAN ARE PROPOSING WHAT THEY ARGUE IS A WAY OUT OF WAR.

--SERVED AS PRIMARY OF MINISTER WHILE --WAS MINISTER -- TOGETHER, THEY FORMULATED AN OUTLINE FOR PEACE, WHICH THEY PROPOSED HERE IN LONDON OF THE WEEK.

GENTLEMEN, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM .

I WOULD LIKE TO START BY ACKNOWLEDGING THE EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION WE HAVE WITH YOU TWO SITTING HERE TOGETHER, AN ISRAELI OFFICIAL, A PALESTINIAN OFFICIAL, AT A TIME WHEN WAR IS WAGING AND NO ONE SEEMS TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO ANYBODY.

SINCE YOU'RE HERE, PRIME MINISTER, BEFORE WE GET TO THE NITTY-GRITTY, WHY HAVE YOU >> THIS THE BEST POSSIBLE TIME.

HAD ANYONE AGREED, HAD THERE NOT BEEN A WAR, AND WE ARE LIVING IN A QUIET ATMOSPHERE, EVERYONE WOULD SAY, WHY THE ARMY?

NOW, THERE IS WAR, PAIN, SUFFERING.

PEOPLE ARE KILLED, BOTH SIDES, IN A TERRIBLE WAY.

SOMETHING MUST BE DONE IN ORDER TO CHANGE IT.

AND SOME WAS THAT FOR SOMEONE MUST TRY TO OFFER A BEACON OF LIGHT, OF HOPE.

THAT CAN CHANGE THE ATMOSPHERE.

AND I AM SO PROUD THAT I HAVE THIS PARTNERSHIP WITH -- TOGETHER, WE ARE RELATIVELY KNOWN IN THE REGION.

WE CAN COME TOGETHER, SPEAKING FOR PALESTINIANS AND ISRAELIS AND SAYING, THERE IS A WAY WHICH MUST BE PURSUED SERIOUSLY.

>> WE WILL GET TO THAT.

THIS ALL STARTED OCTOBER 2nd, OCTOBER 7, AT LEAST THE LATEST --HUNDRED AND HOSTAGES AT LEAST STILL THERE.

FOR THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA, 43,000 DEAD ACCORDING TO THE HEALTH MINISTRY.

WHAT IS YOUR REASON, BEYOND STOPPING THE BLOODSHED, WHAT IS YOUR REASON FOR A LITTLE BIT OF HOPE THAT BRINGS YOU TOGETHER WITH THE FORMER IS REALLY PRIME MINISTER?

>> IT IS A VERY PAINFUL SITUATION, THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

IS A VERY EXTRAORDINARY SITUATION, NOT ONLY BECAUSE OF OUR PRESENCE TOGETHER, BUT BECAUSE OF THE ACTUAL PAIN AND AGONY FELT ON BOTH SIDES IN THE REGION BECAUSE OF THE WAR THAT IS EXPANDING TO LEBANON AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE AFTER THAT.

THAT, PAIN, AND WARREN BLOODSHED IS NOT GOING TO BE A SOLUTION.

IT WILL NOT LEAD US TO A DIFFERENT SITUATION.

ACTUALLY, IT WILL TAKE US TO SQUARE ONE AND IT WILL BE MORE AND MORE OF THE SAME.

MORE AND MORE DESTRUCTION AND BLOODSHED.

THAT HAS TO CHANGE.

WE NEED TO CHANGE THE COURSE AND FIND A SOLUTION.

>> I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TODAY'S NEWS, WHICH WE SHOWED IN THE INTRODUCTION.

ANOTHER BOMBING.

IT SEEMS TO BE THAT SINCE YAHYA SINWAR WAS ELIMINATED , IN THE WORDS OF YOUR GOVERNMENT, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO, HUNDREDS MORE PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED.

THERE IS A LACK OF AID GOING AND.

THIS PEACE PROPOSAL YOU HAVE, DOES THIS WAR NEED TO CONTINUE?

DO YOU NOT THINK IT SHOULD END?

>> I THOUGHT EIGHT MONTHS AGO , NOT ONE WEEK AGO, NOT TWO WEEKS THOUGHT IT SHOULD STOP .

WE HAVE REACHED A POINT WHERE WE HAVE ACHIEVED MOCHE --MOST OF WHAT WE HAD TO ACHIEVE, WHICH IS DESTROY THE MILITARY CAPACITY OF THOMAS.

--HAMAS.

THEY DID SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE, AND IT WAS AN INEVITABLE REACTION THAT ISRAEL HAD TO MAKE.

BUT WE ACHIEVED MOST OF WHAT WE CAN ACHIEVE IN A MILITARY OPERATION.

WE DESTROYED HAMAS, WE DESTROYED THE TUNNELS.

NOT 100%, BUT ENOUGH.

WE DESTROYED THEIR WEAPONS, ROCKETS, BANKERS, COMMON POSITIONS.

EVERYTHING.

NOW WHAT HAPPENS, WE LOSE ISRAELI SOLDIERS, WE LOSE INNOCENT PALESTINIANS LIVING IN GAZA.

EMBEDDED WITH THE HAMAS , AND OF COURSE IT IS THE MAIN REASON AND GROWING NUMBER OF INNOCENT CIVILIANS BEING KILLED.

BUT WE ARE NOT A GOOD THAT'S WHEN YOU GET BACK HOSTAGES IF WE DO NOT STOP THE WAR.

THE TYPE TO STOP IT IS THE WAY.

THERE WILL BE PALESTINIAN PRISONERS RELEASED, NO DOUBT.

AND THEN, WE WILL HAVE TO PULLOUT FROM GAZA ALTOGETHER.

AND THERE WILL BE A MILITARY FORCE --THEY WILL TAKE OVER GAZA AND PROVIDE FOR THE SECURITY, THERE WILL NOT BE FOR THE MILITARY TERRORIST ATTACKS FROM GAZA TO THE STATE OF ISRAEL.

AND THEN, THE QUESTION REMAINS, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH THE 6 MILLION PALESTINIANS?

IT'S A QUESTION WE HAVE TO ASK.

FROM OUR SIDE, WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO WITH 6 MILLION PALESTINIANS?

WE HAVE TO FIND A SOLUTION.

THERE IS NOT ANY SOLUTION OTHER THAN A TWO STATE SOLUTION.

THAT IS WHAT WE, BASED ON WHAT I HAVE PROPOSED --IN 2008, WHEN I WAS PRIME MINISTER.

WE HAVE TO TRY TO BRING IT BACK TO THE CENTER STAGE, TO THE INTERNATIONAL DISCOURSE.

TO THE PRIME MINISTER'S AND GOVERNMENTS EVERYWHERE TO BRING IT BACK, -- >> I WANT TO ASK YOU, -- --THE LONG SURVEYING PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY.

NO ELECTIONS HAVE BEEN THERE FOR I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY YEARS.

>> 19 YEARS.

>> THAT IS PRETTY LONG.

ISRAEL HAS A GOVERNMENT , WHO WOULD BE THE PEOPLE YOU WOULD THINK WOULD NEED TO JOIN YOU AND OTHERS ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE?

WHO IS GOING TO MAKE AGREEMENTS FOR THE PALESTINIANS?

>> AT THIS STAGE, I THINK LAYMEN ON BOTH SIDE ARE SUPPORTING WHAT WE TRY TO DO.

BUT CLINICAL FORCES ARE DIFFERENT STORY.

I THINK POLITICAL FORCES LACKED THE GUTS TO TAKE POSITIONS IN THIS REGARD.

IT IS A VERY HORRIBLE SITUATION.

AND EVERYBODY IS SEEKING REVENGE, BLOOD, DESTRUCTION.

NOTHING MORE THAN THAT.

THAT IS WHY IT TAKES COURAGE TO DO THE RIGHT THINGS.

HOWEVER, LET ME SAY THIS.

IS A VERY BAD SITUATION.

AS YOU SAID, TODAY THERE WAS A HUGE EXPLOSION IN GAZA.

TODAY, OR YESTERDAY, -- ATTEMPTED TO DISRUPT THE MOST IMPORTANT U.N. ORGANIZATION TO HELP THE PALESTINIAN REFUGEES AND IT IS A PAINFUL SITUATION.

YOU KNOW WHAT, THERE IS NO OTHER ALTERNATIVE, NO SOLUTION BESIDES WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING.

NOT ONLY ENDING THE WAR IN GAZA, BUT THE OVERALL SOLUTION.

>> I WILL GET TO THOSE DETAILS.

ABOUT THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION.

IN MAJORITY, OVERWHELMING VOTE IN THE -- VOTED TO BAN THE U.N.

RELIEF AGENCY.

NOT JUST FROM GAZA, BUT FROM THE WEST BANK AND EAST JERUSALEM WHERE THEY SERVE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, WHICH IS A PART OF THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES.

I KNOW THAT ISRAEL AND THE GOVERNMENT HAS ISSUES.

BUT ON THE ISSUE OF HUMANITARIAN AID, THE U.S., FOR INSTANCE HAS GIVEN ISRAEL A DEADLINE.

IF YOU DO NOT ALLOW HUMANITARIAN AID WITHIN 30 DAYS, WE MIGHT HAVE TO RECONSIDER THE TERMS OF US GIVING YOU WEAPONS.

IT VIOLATES THE U.S. --LAWS ON WEAPONS.

>> BRIEFLY, I WANT TO UNRWA AND HUMANITARIAN AID.

WE FOUND OUT SOME UNRWA WERE PARTICIPATING IN THE MASSACRE ON OCTOBER 7th, THIS IS A PROBLEM.

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, IT'S INCUMBENT UPON ISRAEL TO MAKE SURE ALL OF THE HUMAN AID WILL BE SUPPLIED TO THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA , BECAUSE THIS IS OUR MORAL RESPONSIBILITY.

THERE IS NO QUESTION OR DOUBT OR ARGUMENT THAT CAN BE MADE ABOUT THIS.

WHETHER IT IS DONE THROUGH UNRWA, OR DIFFERENT WAY, IT IS A MINOR ISSUE.

AS LONG AS WE DO IT, I AM ENTIRELY AGAINST THOSE THAT THINK WE CAN USE HUMANITARIAN ASPECTS IN ORDER TO SOMEHOW SQUEEZE MORE --THE POOR PALESTINIANS , THE CITIZENS THAT LIVE IN GAZA THAT ARE NOT A PART OF THE WAR.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN THIS SOME FORM OF HE IS COME UP WITH THIS MAXIMUS PLAN TO DEPOPULATE OR START OR SURRENDER NORTHERN GAZA.

OR MAYBE MORE.

IS THIS REAL?

>> I BELIEVE IN MY PLAN, WHICH IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT.

180 DEGREES A DIFFERENT.

I BOUGHT INTO DEPOPULATING GAZA.

THIS IS CRAZY, IRRESPONSIBLE, RECKLESS AND COMPLETELY AGAINST THE BASIC FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN VALUES THAT ISRAEL REPRESENTED FOR GENERATIONS.

AND WE WANT TO KEEP REPRESENTING TO THE FUTURE.

IF GAZA IS NOT PART OF ISRAEL, HAS NEVER BEEN A PART OF ISRAEL, SHOULD NOT BE PART OF ISRAEL, IT SHOULD BE PART OF THE PALESTINIAN STATE, WHICH HOPEFULLY WILL BE CREATED AS PART OF A COVENANT OF PEACE AGREEMENT THAT WILL CHANGE THE ENTIRE REGION.

THEREFORE, WE ARE NOT IN ANY POSITION TO EXPEND THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN GAZA FROM WHERE THEY LIVE.

>> AND OBVIOUSLY, NETANYAHU'S COALITION PARTNERS WANT TO RESETTLE IT.

>> NETANYAHU'S COALITION PARTNERS WANT TO DO THIS, BUT NOT ONLY THIS.

THEY WANT ALSO TO TRY TO KICK OUT THE RESIDENTS OF THE WEST BANK SO THEY WILL BE ABLE TO ANNEX THE WEST BANK .

THEREFORE, I KEEP SAYING IT, AND I KNOW SOMETIMES, SOME OF MY COLLEAGUES IN ISRAEL DO NOT LIKE ME SAYING IT.

OVERSEAS, CERTAINLY NOT IN THE PROGRAM OF CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.

I WILL SAY IT, THE REAL ENEMY WE HAVE IS NOT IRAN, WHICH IS NOT HEZBOLLAH, WHICH IS AN ENEMY, WITH --NOT HAMAS, WHICH IS AN ENEMY, IT IS FROM WITHIN.

THE MESSIANIC, CRAZY, EXTREME GROUPS OF ISRAELIS THAT THINK THEY CAN KICK OUT THE PALESTINIANS AND ANNEX THE TERRITORIES.

I AM FIGHTING AGAINST THEM, I AM CAMPAIGNING AGAINST THEM.

I THINK IT IS INCUMBENT UPON THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT.

UNFORTUNATELY, NETANYAHU DEPEND ON THEM POLITICALLY TO THE EXTENT THAT HE CLOSES HIS EYES AND ALLOWS THEM TO DO THINGS WHICH ARE TOTALLY INTOLERABLE AND UNACCEPTABLE.

>> THAT IS QUITE, -- I DON'T KNOW THE QUITE WHAT IT IS, A FORM IS REALLY OFFICIAL ABOUT HIS FORMER GOVERNMENT.

I WONDER IF YOU FEEL THIS WAY ABOUT FORMER OR CURRENT LEADERS ON THE PALESTINIAN SIDE.

WHETHER IT IS HAMAS, WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO THEIR OWN PEOPLE.

WHETHER IT IS THE P.A., WHICH HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO MUCH, AND HAS NOT DONE MUCH , AND IS TERRIBLY DIVIDED.

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK THERE IS ANY CONSTITUENCY FOR THE BALL PLAN THAT YOU TWO ARE TRYING TO PUT FRONT AND CENTER NOW.

>> LISTEN, THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT WE NEED A REAL AND SERIOUS CHANGE OF LEADERSHIP ON BOTH SIDES.

THIS IS THE WAY THE GOVERNMENT HAS TO GO.

THIS IS THE WAY THE SHIP HAS TO GO.

OF COURSE, WE ARE GOING TO HAVE DIFFERENT SITUATIONS IN GAZA IN TERMS OF THE GOVERNMENTAL STRUCTURES RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SITUATION THERE.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT.

WHAT --IS SAYING IS GOOD.

IT IS SOMETHING I AM PROUD OF.

I THANK HIM FOR IT.

THE PROBLEM IS, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT THINKS OTHERWISE AND THINKS DIFFERENTLY.

IF WE TAKE UNRWA, FOR INSTANCE.

THE PROBLEM FOR THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT WHAT SOME OF VERY FEW EMPLOYEES OF UNRWA MINA -- MIGHT HAVE DONE, THE IDEA IS TO DESTROY UNRWA FOR POLITICAL REASONS.

FOR WHAT IT REPRESENTS , TAKING CARE OF PALESTINIAN REFUGEES.

THE SAME THING ABOUT GAZA.

OF COURSE HAMAS DID THINGS THE FOR.

THERE IS NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, THE AMOUNT OF TOTAL DESTRUCTION OF GAZA THAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING , THE AMOUNT OF KILLING, THE AMOUNT OF INJURING THAT TOOK PLACE IS BEYOND BELIEF.

AND I THINK IT GOES BEYOND THE ANNOUNCED GOAL OF DESTROYING HAMAS OR PUNISHING HAMAS.

IT GOES, I THINK , TO THE POINT OF PUNISHING THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE GENERALLY, AND ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT LIVE IN GAZA.

NOW, I THINK WE ARE MOVING TO SEE THE SAME THING ALSO IN THE WEST BANK AS WELL.

>> CAN I ASK YOU, FROM WHAT WE READ AND WHAT YOU ALL HAVE DISCUSSED IN LONDON ABOUT THE PLAN, IT IS SIMILAR TO PRIME MINISTER --PLAN WHEN HE WAS PRIME MINISTER.

IT INVOLVES THE STATE OF JERUSALEM, IT INVOLVES SETTLEMENTS, GOING BACK TO THE 1967 LINES.

IT INVOLVES REFUGEES.

YOU ALL REJECTED IT LAST TIME.

DO YOU THINK IT HAS ANY MORE CURRENCY NOW?

>> I DO NOT THINK --REJECTED THE PLAN.

I THINK HE DID NOT ACCEPT THE PLAN, THAT IS BAD ENOUGH.

--OF COURSE, WHAT WE ARE PROPOSING IS VERY SIMILAR TO WHAT WAS PROPOSED AND NEGOTIATED BETWEEN THE TWO SIDES.

AND ALMOST REACHED AN AGREEMENT .

I HOPE THEY WOULD, UNFORTUNATELY IT WAS NOT DONE.

I AGREE, WE DID NOT INVENT THE WHEEL.

WE NEED TO STOP THE WAR IN GAZA.

AND WE SAY HOW.

AND ME TO HAVE AN OVERALL POLITICAL SOLUTION IN THE FORM OF TWO STATES.

ISRAEL AND PALESTINE LIVING SIDE-BY-SIDE.

OR SOME TERRITORY TO SOLVE A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM OF SETTLEMENT .

AND OF COURSE, THERE IS THE ISSUE OF JERUSALEM AND HOW IT SHOULD BE THE CAPITAL OF BOTH.

AND MAYBE SPECIAL STATUS FOR THE OLD CITIES TO ENSURE THE FREEDOM OF WORSHIP FOR ALL BELIEVERS.

>> --IN JULY, THE ISRAELI PARLIAMENT OVERWHELMINGLY VOTED FOR A RESOLUTION THAT REJECTED THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A TWO STATE SOLUTION.

YOUR PARLIAMENT VOTED FOR THAT.

AND THEY REJECTED WHAT I THINK AT THE TIME CROWN PRINCE OF SAUDI ARABIA, HE MIGHT'VE BEEN KING.

THE --PEACE INITIATIVE, WHICH ANSWERED ALL OF ISRAEL CONCERNS, AND IT WAS REJECTED.

WHERE IS YOUR HOPE?

>> MY PEACE PLAN IN 2008, AND ALSO MY SPEECH IN THE ANNAPOLIS --WHICH WAS INITIATED BY PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH AND THE SECRETARY OF STATE, CONDOLEEZZA RICE, WITH THE PARTICIPATION OF THE PALESTINIANS.

57 MUSLIM NATIONS FROM ACROSS THE WORLD.

WE TAKE VERY SERIOUSLY THE ARABIC PEACE INITIATIVE.

WHAT I PROPOSE IN MY PEACE PLAN WAS ON THE BASIS AS FAR AS THE REFUGEE ISSUE IS CONCERNED, WITHIN THE FRAMEWORK OF THE PEACE INITIATIVE.

I SAY TO YOU NOW, THIS, HAVE I TOLD YOU IN 2005 , THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, THAT THE END OF THE YEAR, GENERAL --THE THEN PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL WOULD DISMANTLE ALL OF THE SETTLEMENTS IN GAZA YOU WOULD SAY, YOU MUST BE CRAZY, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

IT HAPPENED.

AGAINST ALL ODDS, PREDICTION, A GUEST --AGAINST ALL UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT CAN BE DONE.

I AM TELLING YOU TODAY, THE DAY WILL COME THEY WILL SAY, -- EHUD BARAK AND NASSER AL QUDWA APPEARED ON AMANPOUR & COMPANY IN LONDON WILL BE AN AGREED SOLUTION ON THE BASIS OF TWO STATES , AND ON THE BASIS OF THE 67 BORDERS WITH ANNEXATION AND A CHANGE IN THE STATUS OF THE ARAB SIDE OF JERUSALEM, WHICH WILL BECOME A PALESTINIAN CAPITAL.

AND CHANGING THE STATUS OF THE OLD CITY WHERE THERE WILL NOT BE AN EXCLUSIVE POLITICAL SOVEREIGNTY.

NEITHER FOR ISRAEL, OR FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

BECAUSE THERE WILL NEVER BE PEACE.

EITHER ISRAELI, OR PALESTINIAN.

WE HAVE TO MOVE FORWARD.

IT WILL HAPPEN.

IF WE DON'T THINK IT CAN BE DONE, -- OUR CAMPAIGN FORCEFULLY, IT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

YOU WILL SEE HOW MANY WILL JOIN US, AND WE WILL BREAK THROUGH AND IT WILL HAPPEN.

>> I THINK YOU NODDING, DR. AL QUDWA.

I AM AFRAID WE ARE OUT OF TIME.

THIS HAS BEEN A REALLY >> I JUST WANT TO SAY, I DO AGREE.

THAT IS ALL.

>> GOOD.

BECAUSE WE DO NOT HEAR THIS VERY MUCH THESE DAYS.

IN FACT, WE DO NOT HEAR IT AT ALL.

IT'S GOOD TO SEE TWO PROMINENT POLITICIANS ON EACH SIDE ACTUALLY DECIDING TO COME OUT AND BE PUBLIC ABOUT THIS.

WHETHER OR NOT IT IS POSSIBLE IN THE SHORT TERM.

>> TWO STUBBORN GUYS THAT WORK FOR THE --OF THE PEOPLE RESPECTIVELY.

>> GOOD.

NASSER AL QUDWA, EHUD BARAK, THANK YOU FOR COMING IN THE.

>>> WITH JUST A WEEK UNTIL U.S. ELECTION DAY, SOME VOTERS ARE MAKING THEIR VOICES HEARD ON GAZA.

ON MONDAY NIGHT IN MICHIGAN, VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS INTERRUPTED HER SPEECH TO RESPOND TO PROTESTERS IN THE CROWD.

>> THERE IS A YEARNING IN OUR COUNTRY FOR PRESIDENT WHO WILL SEE YOU.

WHO GETS YOU, AND WHO WILL FIGHT FOR YOU.

CHAIR MAC -- HEAR YOU.

WE ALL WANT THIS WAR TO END AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AND GET THE HOSTAGES OUT.

I WILL DO EVERYTHING IN MY POWER TO MAKE IT SO.

AND LET'S BE CLEAR, WE ARE ALL HERE BECAUSE WE ARE FIGHTING FOR A DEMOCRACY, AND FOR THE RIGHT OF PEOPLE.

TO BE HEARD AND SEEN.

WE ARE NOT ABOUT THE ENEMY WITHIN.

WE KNOW WE ARE IN THIS TOGETHER, THAT IS WHAT WE ARE FIGHTING FOR.

>> NOW, THE AMERICAN DR. --HAS SPENT SIX MONTHS INSIDE GAZA, BETWEEN DECEMBER AND JUNE.

HE SAW FIRSTHAND THE DESPERATION AND SUFFERING, WHICH WE HAVE JUST BEEN DISCUSSING WITH THOSE TWO SENIOR OFFICIALS.

NOW, HE SAYS THE SITUATION IS CATASTROPHIC AND ARABLE -- UNBEARABLE.

UNABLE TO REACH HIS COLLEAGUES -- MANY OF THEM KILLED, THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HEARD OUR PREVIOUS CONVERSATION.

IT WAS REALLY INTERESTING TO HEAR TWO VERY SENIOR POLITICIANS ACKNOWLEDGING, PARTICULARLY ON THE ISRAELI SIDE, THE TERRIBLE CARNAGE AND THE NEED TO END THIS.

WHAT IS YOUR GENERAL FEELING?

LET ME JUST TALK ABOUT THE HOSPITALS THAT HAVE BEEN HIT.

AND EVEN THE ISRAELI IDF ADMITS THAT ONE OF THESE MAJOR HOSPITALS HAS BEEN HIT IN THE NORTH.

>> I THINK IT IS A BREATH OF FRESH AIR TO SEE THAT KIND OF DIALOGUE.

THE REALITY OF THE SITUATION IS THE DEATH, HORROR AND SUFFERING IS STILL ONGOING.

THEIR HOSPITAL WITH PATIENTS DYING, THERE IS NO FOOD, NO FUEL, NO WATER, NO MEDICINES.

NO ADVANCED CT SCANS OR MRIs.

NO GOWNS, GLOVES, EQUIPMENT.

THE COMMENT THAT THEY ONLY HAVE THEIR BARE HANDS , WE HAVE SEEN ANY DOCTOR OR NURSE THAT HAS WORKED IN GAZA HAVE SEEN IT.

YOU HAVE PEOPLE BLEEDING TO DEATH.

SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE MORE BODIES OR BODY PARTS THAT PEOPLE TO TREAT.

YOU DON'T REALLY FEEL LIKE YOU CAN BE A GOOD DOCTOR OR NURSE BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST SO MANY PEOPLE TO HELP AND YOU CANNOT GET TO ALL OF THEM.

>> AS YOU SPEAK, WE ARE SEEING SOME OF THE VIDEO YOU PROVIDED FROM YOUR TIME THERE.

THE LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE WAS IN JUNE, ABOUT SIX MONTHS AGO.

IT WAS THE HEIGHT OF THE SUMMER.

THERE WERE ALL SORTS OF, NOT JUST KILLINGS FROM THE MILITARY OFFENSIVE, BUT ALSO, THERE WAS A LACK OF WATER, LACK OF FOOD.

THE HEAT, I GUESS WAS CAUSING ITS OWN DISEASES AND THINGS.

CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHAT YOU HAD TO DEAL WITH AND WHAT GAZA WAS DEALING WITH LAST TIME YOU WERE THERE?

>> I AM LUCKY THAT I GET TO COME HOME TO CHICAGO.

ONE DAY IN JUNE WE HAD 350 PEOPLE KILLED AND ABOUT 700 WOUNDED IN ONE HOUR.

THE HOSPITALS WERE OVERRUN.

THE LOCAL GAZAN STAFF, WE WORK FOR THREE NIGHTS STRAIGHT.

WE DID ABOUT 60 SURGERIES IN THREE DAYS.

MANY OF THE STAFF SLEPT IN THE OPERATING ROOMS ON THE FLOOR, GETTING MAYBE TWO HOURS OF SLEEP IF THEY WERE LUCKY, HERE IN THERE.

THAT WOULD NOT EVEN INCLUDING --THOSE ARE ALL INJURIES FROM EXPLOSIONS.

AMPUTATION AFTER AMPUTATION AFTER AMPUTATION.

I REMEMBER THERE WERE TWO KIDS.

ONE WE HAD TO DO AN IMMEDIATE AMPUTATION FOR HIS HIP JOINT.

WE DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH NATURAL -- BLOOD TRANSFUSION.

ALL WE COULD DO WAS WATCH HIM DIE.

HIS BROTHER WAS IN THE NEXT OPERATING ROOM , HE DIED FOR THE SAME REASON.

WE DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH BLOOD.

THE NEXT DAY, WE TREATED A 13- YEAR-OLD KID.

HE LOST HIS PARENTS IN AN EXPLOSION.

AND HE HAD STREP NO BODY , CHARRED LEG.

WE AMPUTATED HIM, AND WE COULD STILL SMELL THE BURNT FLESH AS WE WERE OPERATING.

THOSE WERE JUST THE INJURIES.

THAT DID NOT INCLUDE THE PATIENT IN THE HOSPITAL FROM STARVATION OR MALNUTRITION.

DUE TO LACK OF FOOD AND WATER.

EVERY DAY FOR LIKE A HORROR SHOW.

EVERY DAY, MY SCRUBS WERE SOAKED IN BLOOD.

EVERYDAY FELT UNSUSTAINABLE AND UNBEARABLE.

IT DID NOT FEEL LIKE IT WAS EVER GOING TO END.

THE LOCAL PALESTINIANS, THEY HAVE TO LIVE THIS, THEY HAVE BEEN LIVING THIS WAY FOR OVER A YEAR.

VOLUNTEERS LIKE US, WE GET TO GO HOME.

>> I WANTED TO ASK YOU, CORRECT ME IF IT DID NOT, WHEN YOU WERE THERE.

IN THEIR ATTEMPT TO GET HAMAS, THERE WERE CIVILIAN HOMES AND BUILDINGS THAT WERE BOMBED, SHELLED, ATTACK, ET CETERA.

AND MANY, MANY CIVILIANS WERE KILLED.

JUST LIKE THE ONE THAT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT.

WE HAVE SEEN THESE REALLY HORRIBLE PICTURES OF CITIZENS CAMP --THEY WERE ORDERED TO EVACUATE WITH THE RED CROSS AS PART HELP.

WOMEN AND CHILDREN LEFT THE BUILDING.

AND THEN THE WOMEN WERE TOLD TO MOVE ON WITH THE CHILDREN AND THEIR BELONGINGS.

AND THE MEN WERE STRIPPED AND BASICALLY GATHERED IN A GROUP.

THE PICTURE HAS BEEN VERIFIED.

AND WE HEAR FROM ONE OF THE MEN, 27 YEARS OLD, THEY DID NOT KNOW QUITE WHAT TO DO.

THEY DECIDED --HERE IS THE PICTURE.

REMOVE THEMSELVES, THEIR KIDS, AND TRY TO GET OUT.

THERE ARE YOUNG PEOPLE, YOUNG KIDS IN THIS PICTURE.

DID YOU EVER COME ACROSS THAT?

THESE MEN THAT WERE SORT OF SEPARATED AND SENT THROUGH METAL DETECTORS, OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE?

BUT KIND OF HUMILIATED THE WAY THEY'RE SITTING THERE IN THE COLD, IN THE FREEZING COLD.

>> EVERY HOSPITAL I WORKED AT, YOU NEED A DOCTOR OR NURSE, A LOCAL PALESTINIAN DOCTOR OR NURSE .

YOU WOULD MEET THEM.

I REMEMBER ONE DOCTOR , I DO NOT KNOW WHERE HE IS OR WHAT HAPPENED TO HIM.

I WORKED WITH HIM, I SAW HIM SAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE.

HE HAD A STORY TOO OF HOSPITAL BEING RATED.

AND ALL OF THE MALES WERE STRIPPED AND HANDCUFFED.

SOME WERE LET GO, SOME WERE DETAINED.

SOME OF THE SURGEONS I WORK WITH, I HAVE NOT HEARD FROM.

I HAVE NOT WITNESSED THAT.

BUT EVERY DOCTOR AND NURSE I WORKED WITH HAD A STORY OF THAT.

>> THE PICTURES ARE REALLY UNBEARABLE.

I WANT TO KNOW, YOU KIND OF ALLUDED TO IT.

ARE YOU ABLE TO BE IN CONTACT WITH ANY OF THE PEOPLE, THE DOCTORS YOU KNEW FROM WHEN YOU WERE THERE.

DO YOU KNOW SPECIFICALLY WHAT THEY'RE GOING THROUGH RIGHT NOW IN TERMS OF BEING ABLE TO DO BASIC FIRST AID?

>> THE ONES I CAN REACH ARE JUST DESCRIBING POURABLE SITUATIONS .

JUST LIKE THEY SAID, THEY ONLY HAVE THEIR BARE HANDS.

THEY ARE MAKING CONSCIOUS DECISIONS TO WALK AWAY FROM PEOPLE AND LET THEM DIE.

BECAUSE THEY CANNOT HELP THEM.

AND OTHERS I HAVE TRIED TO REACH, THEY HAVE GONE SILENT.

I DON'T KNOW IF IT IS BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST THEIR PHONES OR IF THEY ARE KILLED.

ONE OF THE NURSES TEXTED ME SAYING HIS NEWBORN JUST TURNED ONE.

AND HE WONDERS --THIS KID WAS BROUGHT INTO HIS WORLD.

WHEN HE WAS BORN, IT WAS THE JOY OF HIS LIFE.

NOW HE HAS NO FOOD, NO WATER, NO DIAPERS.

THERE IS SEWAGE IN THE STREETS.

HE SAYS SOME DAYS HE JUST PRAYS FOR GOD TO END IT ALL.

IT IS HARD TO GET THOSE TEXTS.

HERE, I JUST FEEL SO POWERLESS AND HELPFUL.

WE CANNOT REACH THEM.

>> ARE YOU ABLE TO MAINTAIN YOUR OWN MENTAL HEALTH?

YOUR OWN EQUILIBRIUM?

IS A ONE SIZE FITS ALL.

THIS TYPE OF WORK IS VERY FULFILLING.

IT IS VERY MEANINGFUL, BUT IT IS ALSO VERY EXHAUSTING.

YOU HAVE TO LEARN TO TAKE THE SORROWS WITH THE JOYS AND TAKE THE PUNCHES.

THAT IS WHY WE KEEP GOING BACK, THAT IS A PART OF THE JOB.

>> YOU ARE THE UNSUNG HEROES -- MEDICAL DOCTOR.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR PUTTING YOURSELF IN DANGER FOR PEOPLE.

OF COURSE, WHAT YOU HAVE JUST TOLD US REALLY HIGHLIGHTS THE IMPORTANCE OF WHAT EHUD BARAK AND NASSER AL QUDWA ARE TRYING TO DO TO END THIS WAR AND HAVE A PROPER LASTING PEACE SOLUTION.

IN THESE FINAL DAYS OF THE CAMPAIGN IN AMERICA, BOTH CANDIDATES ARE PUSHING THE PEDAL TO THE METAL.

>>> VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS DELIVERS HER FINAL --AT WASHINGTON'S --.

THAT IS WHERE DONALD TRUMP RALLIED HIS SUPPORTERS ON JANUARY 6th, 2021.

>>> TRUMP'S STILL FACING SQUARE GARDEN RALLY.

HE SPEAKS IN ALLENTOWN, PENNSYLVANIA.

IT IS A MAJORITY LATINO CITY, WITH ONE OF THE LARGEST PUERTO RICAN COMMUNITIES IN AMERICA.

CHRISTIAN HOMES IS AT THE TRUMP RALLY SITE.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

AMIDST ALL OF THIS BACKLASH AND SERIOUSNESS OF THE STAKES IN PENNSYLVANIA, WHAT ARE PEOPLE THERE TELL YOU, PARTICULARLY IN THE WAKE OF THAT MADISON SQUARE GARDEN RALLY?

>> WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, THIS IS AN AREA WHERE PEOPLE ARE HERE TO SEE THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

EVERYONE WE ARE TALKING TO IS EXCITED TO SEE THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

THEY HAVE SHOWED UP HERE TO TALK TO HIM TODAY.

WE HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO GO OUTSIDE OF THIS BUBBLE, GIVEN THE SECURITY.

I WILL TELL YOU DONALD TRUMP'S ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THERE'S GOING TO BE BACKLASH.

DONALD TRUMP, THIS IS NOT HIS FIRST TIME OR SECOND TIME, THIRD, OR FOURTH GETTING ADDRESSED WITH CONTROVERSY.

HIS TEAM WAS HOPING THIS WOULD KIND OF GO AWAY AT SOME POINT.

BUT IT HAS NOT.

AND DONALD TRUMP TRY TO ADDRESS THIS WITH AN ABC REPORTER.

THIS WAS THEIR VERSION OF HIM TALKING ABOUT THESE COMMENTS.

HE SAID, I DO NOT KNOW HIM.

SOMEONE PUT HIM UP THERE.

I DO NOT KNOW WHO HE IS.

WHEN GIVEN THE CHANCE TO DENOUNCE THESE COMMENTS ABOUT PUERTO RICO, HE DID NOT TAKE THAT OPPORTUNITY.

I WAS TOLD THAT CONVERSATION WAS SUPPOSED TO BE HIS RESPONSE TO THOSE COMMENTS THAT WERE MADE.

INSTEAD, IT SEEMS LIKE A VAGUE, DISASSOCIATION WITH WHAT HAPPENED.

OBVIOUSLY, DONALD TRUMP IS NOT THE ONE WHO MADE THESE REMARKS.

WHEN I REACHED OUT TO ANOTHER CAMPAIGN SOURCE ASKING HOW THEY FELT ABOUT BEING IN PENNSYLVANIA, THEY COULD RATTLE OFF THE STATISTICS OF LATINO VOTERS IN THE AREA WE ARE.

THEY ARE CLEARLY TRACKING THIS VERY CLOSELY.

THEY ENLISTED THE SHADOW SENATOR FROM PUERTO RICO TO SPEAK AT ALLENTOWN THIS.

THEY ARE TRYING TO DO THIS OUTREACH.

A LOT OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE PUBLICLY SPEAKING OUT AGAINST THESE COMMENTS, THEY WANT TO HEAR FROM THE FORMER PRESIDENT HIMSELF, THAT IS NOT SOMETHING HE IS REALLY DONE OTHER THAN THESE COMMENTS HERE.

>> EVEN, HE HAD A MAR-A-LAGO, RALLY OR PRESS RUN, I AM NOT SURE.

HE DID NOT EVEN MENTION IT.

LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT KAMALA HARRIS, WHO WAS CLEARLY TRYING TO CLOSE THIS DEAL IN PENNSYLVANIA.

IN GENERAL, AND WE HEARD OVER THE WEEKEND MICHELLE OBAMA IS A VERY POWERFUL AND POIGNANT APPEAL TO MEN AND WOMEN REGARDING THEIR WOMENFOLK AND REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH RIGHTS , AND THE DANGER TRUMP WOULD PRESENT, SHE SAID.

HOW IS THAT LANDING IN PENNSYLVANIA?

AND WHAT DO YOU THINK KAMALA HARRIS CAN EXPECT THERE?

>> I THINK IS GOING TO BE AN INCREDIBLY TIGHT RACE.

--THIS IS GOING TO BE DECIDED BY SUCH A SMALL NUMBER OF VOTERS.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE THIS WILL BE DECIDED IN THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA.

WHEN IT COMES TO APPEALING TO MEN, EVEN WITH MICHELLE OBAMA'S STAR POWER, IT DOES NOT SEEM TO MOVE THE NEEDLE.

WE HAVE NOT SEEN ANY RECENT UPDATE IN POLLING, BUT JUST FROM TALKING TO PEOPLE ON THE GROUND AND SEEING HOW WIDE THAT GENDER GAP IS, KAMALA HARRIS HAS TRIED TO TAKE ON THIS GENDER GAP.

TRYING TO REACH OUT TO MEN.

IT SEEMS, FROM TALKING TO VARIOUS CAMPAIGN STRATEGISTS, IT IS MORE LIKELY FOR HER TO CHIP AWAY AT THAT THAN FOR DONALD TRUMP TO GET MORE WOMEN VOTERS.

THAT GENDER GAP IS VERY WIDE -- THEY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO REACH OUT TO WOMEN AS WELL.

THAT SEEMS UNLIKELY.

LET'S JUST LOOK AT THE MADISON SQUARE GARDEN RALLY, FOR EXAMPLE.

IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE COMMENTS, BRIDGING THAT WITH A SOFTER ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE.

WHICH WHY IT --, HARRIS MIGHT HAVE MORE SUCCESS REACHING OUT TO MEN.

>> ESPECIALLY OVERSEAS, EVERYONE IS ON THE EDGE OF THEIR SEATS.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>>> TRUMP'S --APPEARS TO HAVE AN IMPACT.

TAKE THE CIVILIAN TOWN OF CHARLEROI.

HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS THERE HELPING TO REVITALIZE THAT TOWN.

BUT THEY ARE BEING TARGETED BY TRUMP'S LIES.

AS GEORGE PACKER PUTS IT, TRUMP HAS FOUND A SMALL, TENDER WILL IN A CRUCIAL SWING STATE AND STUCK A FINGER INSIDE.

SUMMIT MIGHT ALSO CALL IT MICRO- TARGETING.

--CALLED WALTER ISAACSON TO DISCUSS .

>>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, GEORGE PACKER, WELCOME TO THE SHOW.

>> YOU WENT TO CHARLEROI, PENNSYLVANIA.

I READ THIS PIECE YOU DID IN THE ATLANTIC.

IT IS SO EMBLEMATIC OF ALL OF THE THEMES WE ARE FACING.

TELL ME HOW YOU FOUND CHARLEROI AND WHY WAS IT SO EMBLEMATIC FOR YOU?

>> IT'S A SMALL, INDUSTRIAL TOWN SOUTH OF PITTSBURGH.

I SAW TWO STORIES THAT HAPPEN TO COINCIDE ALMOST EXACTLY IN TIME.

--MAKING GLASSWARE SINCE THE 1980s WAS GOING TO SHUT DOWN AND MOVE SOME OF ITS OPERATIONS TO OHIO.

300+ GOOD UNION JOBS ARE GOING TO DISAPPEAR FROM A TOWN THAT HAD BEEN LOSING INDUSTRIAL JOBS FOR 50 YEARS.

IT WAS ONE MORE BLOW TO A DECLINING INDUSTRIAL TOWN ON THE DASH COQUILLE RIVER DASH COQUILLE RIVER.

THE ONLY --THE OTHER CHARLEROI STORY IS THAT DONALD TRUMP LEARNED THAT HAITIAN IMMIGRANTS ARRIVED OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS.

TO A TOWN THAT REALLY --IT WAS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT INCREASE.

HE BEGAN SAYING THAT CHARLEROI IS BEING DESTROYED BY THE HAITIANS.

THAT CRIME WAS RAMPANT, HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR BEAUTIFUL CHARLEROI NOW.

I THOUGHT, THESE TWO THINGS ARE BOTH CRUCIAL ELEMENTS OF THE ELECTION.

ONE IS ABOUT IMMIGRATION AND DEMAGOGUERY.

THE OTHER IS ABOUT THE CLIENT.

-- I THOUGHT, I SHOULD GO THERE AND SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE.

>> LET'S START WITH THE ECONOMIC THING.

THERE WAS A PRIVATE EQUITY SAYING THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR SHUTTING DOWN THE PYREX PLAN.

WAS SOME OF THE ANGER DIRECTED AT WALL STREET CORPORATE BILLIONAIRES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WORKERS FROM THE FACTORY WHO ARE UNION MEMBERS IN THE LOCAL STEELWORKERS UNION.

THEY WERE FURIOUS.

THE CENTER LANE PARTNERS , AND A COMPANY CALLED ANCHOR HOCKING WHICH HAD RECENTLY BOUGHT THE FACTORY, UNDER SOMEWHAT HAZY CONDITIONS.

IT SEEMED THEY HAD BEEN PREVENTED FROM BUYING IT EARLIER BECAUSE OF ANTITRUST LAWS.

AND THEN, THE CELL WENT AHEAD AND IT WAS A BANKRUPTCY SALE.

IT WAS ALL VERY SHADOW WE.

SUDDENLY, THEY ARE ANNOUNCING IT WILL BE MOVED TO OHIO.

THAT PEOPLE WILL GET SEVERANCE TO MOVE TO OHIO IF THEY CAN DO THAT.

IT WAS A HUGE DISRUPTION.

I TALKED TO WORKERS WHO SAID , THIS IS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH.

THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US.

THEY STRIP US FOR PARTS AND THEN THEY MOVE WHAT IS PROFITABLE AND CONVENIENT.

AND WE GET WHAT?

ONE WOMAN SAID $8000 IN SEVERANCE.

OR 35 YEARS OF HER LIFE WORKING IN THE FACTORY.

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY BLAINE, -- BLAME, A PORTION.

AND TO CORPORATE GREED.

>> IS THAT SOMETHING THE DEMOCRATS USED TO BE ABLE TO EXPRESS MORE?

>> YES.

CHARLEROI WAS A DEMOCRATIC TOWN UNTIL ROUGHLY 2016.

THEY MAY HAVE BEGUN TO TURN RED EARLIER.

BUT 2016, I WAS TOLD, WAS A TURNING POINT.

WHEN TRUMP BEGAN TO ARTICULATE THE ANGER AT TRADED DEALS, IMMIGRATION, AND OTHER FORCES.

GLOBALIZATION, THAT PEOPLE THEY FELT WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DECLINE OF THE TOWN.

DEMOCRATS, AND UNIONS WERE THE VOICE OF WORKERS IN A PLACE LIKE THAT.

I WOULD SAY UNTIL THE 1990s WHEN IT NAFTA AND THE FORCES OF GLOBALIZATION, AND THE NEW DEMOCRATS, UNDER BILL CLINTON, REALLY LOST THE VOICE TO SPEAK FOR THOSE WORKERS.

STOPPED SEEING THEM, YOU COULD SAY.

THE WORKERS FELT MAYBE THERE WAS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO PARTIES.

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED OVER THE LAST 30 YEARS.

THE DEMOCRATS LOST THEIR STANDING AS THE CHAMPIONS OF THE WORKING CLASS.

PEOPLE IN A PLACE LIKE CHARLEROI, WHO NO LONGER --WHO HERE INSTEAD THE PARTY IS BECOMING THE PARTY OF THE COLLEGE EDUCATED, THEY LOOK TO THE REPUBLICANS.

WHO MAY NOT BE DOING ANYTHING ECONOMICALLY TO HELP THEM, BUT AT LEAST GETTING THEM SCAPEGOATS AND CULTURE WAR ISSUES THAT THEY CAN BLAME FOR THEIR TROUBLES.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS OFFERING SCAPEGOATING.

WAS THAT WITH THE IMMIGRANT DISCUSSION WAS ABOUT?

ENTRANCE ATTACK ON THE IMMIGRANTS THAT HAVE COME TO CHARLEROI?

>> I THINK SO, BASICALLY.

WE HAVE TO BE HONEST.

WHEN A TOWN OF 4200 OVERWHELMINGLY WHITE WORKING- CLASS AND AGING PEOPLE FIND THERE ARE NOW 2000 NEW IMMIGRANTS , 50% OF THE POPULATION , AND A DISTRESSED TOWN --AND THEY ARE OVERWHELMINGLY BLACK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TENSIONS.

AND YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE COMPLAINTS I HEARD THAT THE SCHOOLS ARE OVERCROWDED, THE TEACHERS CANNOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE AMERICAN STUDENTS BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOO MUCH TRANSLATING TO DO, TOO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF STUDENTS FROM DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS TO TEACH.

THAT THE TRAFFIC LAWS ARE NOT BEING FOLLOWED BECAUSE THE IMMIGRANT DON'T KNOW WHICH ARE THE ONE WE STREETS.

AND THEY ARE BADLY MARKED, I'VE GOT TO SAY.

I WAS WARNED BY UNION MEMBER TO WATCH OUT FOR ONE OF THESE >> BUT HASN'T THE IMMIGRATION REVITALIZE THE ACCOUNT ME -- ECONOMY?

>> THESE ARE THE INEVITABLE GROWING PAINS OF THE RESURGENCE OF LIFE.

YES, IT IS COMING FROM ABROAD.

BUT THAT IS BECAUSE IT WAS NOT COMING FROM HERE.

THE TOWN WAS DYING.

AND SUDDENLY, EMPTY HOUSES ARE FILLING UP.

THERE IS A WHOLE NEW POPULATION OF TAXPAYERS WORKING IN RATHER LOW-WAGE JOBS THAT AMERICAN WORKERS BASICALLY DID NOT WANT.

LIKE IN FOOD PREPARATION FACTORIES.

THERE ARE BAKERIES AND MARKETS OPENING.

IS OUR PARTNERSHIP, THERE IS LIFE.

I WAS TOLD BY THE BOROUGH MANAGER AND BOROUGH COUNCIL PRESIDENT THAT THIS WAS A GREAT GIFT TO CHARLEROI TO FIND A YOUNGER PROBABLY ASIAN -- POPULATION COMING.

AND THE WORKERS AT THE PYREX COMPANY SAID THEY HAD A HALF- DOZEN HAITIAN WORKERS THERE AND THEY WERE THE HARDEST WORKING.

EVEN AS THE SAME PEOPLE WERE COMPLAINING ABOUT SCHOOLS AND TRAFFIC AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

>> ONE OF THE INTERESTING CHARACTERS IN YOUR PIECE IS THE COORDINATOR OF PATIENT COMMUNITY RELATIONS WHO CAME TO THE UNITED STATES IN THE OCEAN COAST GUARD.

>> THIS GUY -- WAS A REALLY INTERESTING MAN.

REALLY THOUGHTFUL.

AND OPTIMISTIC.

AS IMMIGRANTS OFTEN ARE.

HE SEES US IN A BETTER LIGHT THAN WE SEE OURSELVES.

HE TOLD ME HE ALWAYS LOVED THE PHRASE, E PLURIBUS UNUM , ON THE AMERICAN POINT.

HE SAID IT EXPRESS WHAT AMERICA IS ALL ABOUT.

HE SAID, IT MEANS PEOPLE FROM ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS COME TOGETHER IN A UNITED COUNTRY.

WHICH MADE ME A LITTLE SAD.

BECAUSE WE ARE NOT A UNITED COUNTRY.

AND IT MAY TAKE SOMEONE LIKE THAT FROM HAITI TO SEE US IN A BECAUSE HE IS, FROM A COUNTRY BEING TORN APART BY VIOLENCE.

AND HE SEES US AS HAVING ALL OF THESE ADVANTAGES AND GOOD THINGS.

HE ACTUALLY REALLY LOVE CHARLEROI.

BUT THE AFFECT --EFFECT OF TRUMP 'S POINTING IT OUT AS A FAILED PLACE BECAUSE OF IMMIGRANTS, HE SAID, WAS HAVING A TERRIBLE EFFECT ON THE IMMIGRANTS THEMSELVES WHO WERE KEEPING THEIR HEADS DOWN, STAYING INSIDE, EVEN THINKING ABOUT LEAVING CHARLEROI .

>> YOU TALK ABOUT HOW SOME DEMOCRATS ARE ABLE TO SPEAK TO THESE FRUSTRATIONS.

IT IS SOMETHING THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAS NOT DONE ALL THAT WELL, APPARENTLY.

BUT ONE OF THE PEOPLE RUNNING FOR CONGRESS, -- IS ABLE TO TALK ABOUT EVERYTHING FROM CORPORATE GREED, TO BEING PROUNION.

AND TO MITIGATE SOME OF THE EFFECTS OF THE IMMIGRATION AND TALK.

TELL ME HOW THAT MESSAGE WORKS.

FROM THE DISTRICT JUST NORTH OF CHARLEROI.

THE PENNSYLVANIA 17th DISTRICT.

HE IS AN OLD-FASHIONED DEMOCRAT, YOU COULD SAY, HE'S A NAVY VETERAN, HE IS A LAWYER, VERY THOUGHTFUL.

BUT HE HAS STAKED HIS POLITICAL FATE IN A DISTRICT THAT IS QUITE EVEN, AND WHERE HE MIGHT NOT WIN RE-ELECTION.

IT'S ONE OF THOSE 50-50 DISTRICTS THAT HAVE BECOME SO RARE.

HE STICKS HIS FUTURE ON A RETURN TO A DEMOCRATIC MESSAGE, THAT WE ARE WITH THE WORKERS, WE DON'T WANT CORPORATIONS TO BE READING OUR TOWNS AND FACTORIES, STRIPPING THEM FOR ASSETS AND MOVING ON AND LEAVING BEHIND BROKEN LIVES.

IT IS A STRONG MESSAGE THAT HE TRIES TO HIT HOME , GOING DOOR TO DOOR IN SPEECHES, ET CETERA.

DISTRICT WAS THE CHEERING -- TRAIN DERAILMENT IN OHIO WHICH IS THE CROSS OF HIS DISTRICT.

SOME OF THE CHEMICAL GASES SPREAD INTO HIS AREA.

HE HAS MADE REGULATION OF RAIL FREIGHT ONE OF HIS SIGNATURE ISSUES.

AND HIS USE THAT ESSAY, REPUBLICAN PARTY, ARE YOU READY TO REGULATE RAIL FREIGHT ?

OR ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP IT DEREGULATED?

THAT IS A SORT OF ECONOMIC MESSAGE THAT DOES NOT REALLY ADDRESS IMMIGRATION HAD ON.

BUT ESSENTIALLY, IT TRIES TO SAY , THERE ARE LARGER REASONS FOR YOUR TROUBLE THEN THESE 2000 HARD-WORKING IMMIGRANTS IN YOUR TOWN.

THERE ARE MUCH BIGGER FORCES AT WORK.

LET'S PAY ATTENTION TO THEM, AND NOT SCAPEGOAT PEOPLE WHO ARE SIMPLY TRYING TO LIVE THE >> THE POPULACE MESSAGE OF TAKING ON THE RAIL FREIGHT AND RAIL COMPANIES , IN SOME WAY DOVETAILS -- DID HE WORK WITH JD VANCE ON THAT RAILWAY THING?

>> THERE IS A POPULIST STRAIN IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JD VANCE IS MAYBE IT'S THE LEADING SPOKESMAN AND NOW IN CONGRESS.

HE WAS A COSPONSOR OF THAT RAIL FREIGHT REGULATION BILL.

I THINK IT IS CALLED THE RAIL SAFETY ACT OR SOMETHING.

JOSH HAWLEY OF MISSOURI IS ANOTHER.

IT IS SORT OF A SUBMERGED PART OF TRUMPISM .

TRUMP TALKS THAT WAY WHEN IT SUITS HIM.

BUT WHEN HE IS IN POWER, WHAT DOES HE DO?

HE CUTS TAXES FOR CORPORATIONS AND RICH PEOPLE.

THE QUESTION IS WHETHER THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS SERIOUS ABOUT ACTUALLY DEFENDING THE WORKING CLASS, OR IF THEY'RE USING IT AS A WAY TO TURN THEIR PARTY INTO A WORKING-CLASS PARTY, WHICH MANY REPUBLICANS WANT, WITHOUT EVER REALLY SHEDDING THE LEGACY OF THE SMALL GOVERNMENT, LOW TAX -- AND THE OTHER HALF OF THAT QUESTION IS WHETHER THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IS CAPABLE OF RECLAIMING THAT MANTLE AFTER YEARS AND YEARS OF BECOMING THE PARTY OF THE PROFESSIONAL CLASS , WHICH DOES NOT REALLY SEE PLACES LIKE CHARLEROI AT ALL.

AND HAS FORGOTTEN ABOUT THEM.

>> THERE HAS BEEN A MAJOR SHIFT, WHICH IS SOMEWHAT DOCUMENTED, OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY MOVING MORE AND MORE TO BECOME THE PARTY OF URBAN, MORE AFFLUENT, MORE EDUCATED -- ELITE.

IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY PLAYING A POPULIST CARD , BEING FOR THE AVERAGE WORKING GUY.

TO WHAT EXTENT IS THAT A MAJOR SHIFT IN OUR POLITICS THAT WILL BE ONGOING?

>> I THINK IT'S BEEN HAPPENING FOR SEVERAL DECADES .

ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE, WITH BILL CLINTON AND BARACK OBAMA.

IT WAS ANOTHER MERITOCRATIC THAT BELIEVED IN MERITOCRACY AND BELIEVE IN HIGHER EDUCATION.

ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, IT WAS A REVOLUTION WITH TRUMP.

IT HAPPEN IN 2016.

UNTIL THEN, IT WAS A REAGAN DOGMA THAT HELD THE PARTY IN ITS GRIP.

AND NOTHING ELSE COULD GET THROUGH.

NOW WE HAVE A REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT CLAIMS TO SPEAK OF FOR WORKERS, AND IT'S WINNING WORKING-CLASS VOTERS FROM ALL RACES.

THAT IS A BIG CHANGE THAT HAS HAPPENED IN THE LAST CYCLE AND HAS DEFIED THE NORMS OF BLACK VOTERS VOTING FOR A REPUBLICAN IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN.

IT IS HAPPENING, IT IS A BIG PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS.

AND LATINO VOTERS THE EVEN GREATER NUMBERS.

I BELIEVE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS PREPARED TO USE GOVERNMENT .

THE ANTIGOVERNMENT GENE IS SO STRONG IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THAT TO USE GOVERNMENT, AND TO GOVERN WELL, RATHER THAN SIMPLY TEARING DOWN THE ADMINISTRATIVE STATE, TO BRING JOBS, AND MANUFACTURING, AND GREEN ENERGY JOBS TO PLACES LIKE CHARLEROI .

OR TO KEEP THE JOBS THAT ARE STILL THERE, AND TO SUPPORT UNIONS.

BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE VOICES OF WORKERS.

I AM VERY SKEPTICAL.

I THINK IT GOES AGAINST TOO MANY OF THE --TOO MANY OF ITS DONORS.

IN A WAY, THE WORKING CLASS IS UP FOR GRABS.

AND I DON'T SEE EITHER PARTY CLAIMING IT.

I DON'T SEE EITHER PARTY MAKING IT A TRUE ALIGNMENT, THAT WOULD LAST IT --FOR A GENERATION OR TWO.

WHICH PARTY CAN CLAIM TO SPEAK FOR PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR A LIVING AND MAKE AN HOURLY WAGE ?

RIGHT NOW TO GET UP IN THE AIR AND I DO NOT SEE EITHER PARTY MAKING ITS CLAIM IN A WAY THAT IS GOING TO LAST AS A REALIGNMENT.

>> YOU WROTE A VERY INFLUENTIAL BOOK CALLED THE UNWINDING ABOUT HOW AMERICA KIND OF AFRAID.

HOW IS THAT PLAYED OUT EVEN MORE AS YOU SAW IN CHARLEROI?

>> WE JUST KEEP ON UNWINDING.

THAT BOOK CAME OUT IN 2013.

TRUMP WAS A NEW YORK CELEBRITY AND TV STAR.

AND HE HAD BEGUN TO MAKE A NAME FOR HIMSELF AS A DENIER OF BARACK OBAMA'S CITIZENSHIP .

HE IS NOT IN THE BOOK.

BUT TRUMPISM IS IN THE BOOK.

THE LANDSCAPE THAT TRUMP WALKED OUT ONTO IS IN THE BOOK.

IT'S ABOUT COMMUNITY IS IN DECLINE, INSTITUTIONS THAT ARE FAILING TO SUPPORT THE PEOPLE THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO SUPPORT.

IT IS ABOUT LONELINESS.

HOW AMERICANS SEEM TO BE TRYING TO MAKE IT AGAINST THE ODDS WITHOUT ANY HELP FROM EITHER GOVERNMENT OR UNION, OR CHURCH, OR CORPORATION.

I WROTE IT IN PLACES SIMILAR TO CHARLOTTE --CHARLEROI LIKE YOUNGSTOWN, OHIO.

IT WAS NOT HARD TO FIND PEOPLE THAT SAID THE MIDDLE-CLASS IS GONE, THE GAME IS RIGGED FOR THE ELITES AND THE POWERFUL.

AND MY CHILDREN ARE NOT TO HAVE A GOOD AS LIFE AS I HAVE.

THOSE BECAME THE MANTRA I HEARD OVER AND OVER.

DID I HEAR THAT IT CHARLEROI?

THAT IS ALL I HEARD IN CHARLEROI.

OF COURSE, CHARLEROI IS NOT SEATTLE , OR WASHINGTON, OR AUSTIN, TEXAS.

THE COUNTRY IS REGIONALLY DIVIDING DRAMATICALLY INTO THE CHARLEROI 'S OF AMERICA AND THE AUSTIN'S OF AMERICA.

THAT IN ITSELF , TO ME, IS PART OF OUR UNWINDING.

WE DO NOT FEEL LIKE WE BELONG TO THE SAME COUNTRY.

PEOPLE OF THE SAME PARTY DO NOT FEEL LIKE THEY BELONG IN THE SAME COUNTRY.

AND THERE ARE ELITES IN POLITICS THAT HAVE FIGURE OUT THE BEST WAY TO MAKE MONEY IS BY FEEDING THAT.

NOT BY TRYING TO OVERCOME IT, BUT BY FEEDING IT, AND THAT IS WHAT THEY DO.

>> GEORGE PACKER, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>>> FINALLY, IMMENSE BRAVERY IN THE FACE OF ADVERSITY.

SPANISH SOCCER PLAYER, JENNIFER HER MOST SO BECAME THE FIRST WOMAN TO WIN THE SOCRATES AWARD AT THE BELMONT DOOR -- MOMENTS AFTER WINNING THE WORLD CUP LAST YEAR, SHE WAS KISSED WITHOUT HER CONSENT BY THEN SPANISH POLICE CHIEF -- DESPITE HUGE PRESSURE FROM THE FEDERATION, SHE REFUSED TO BE SILENCED .

AS A RESULT, --WAS BANNED FROM THE SPORT FOR THREE YEARS AND WILL STAND TRIAL NEXT YEAR.

JENNIFER HERMOSO SPEARHEADED A GLOBAL MOVEMENT TO BRING AN END TO SEXISM IN THE WORLD OF SOCCER.

IS BUYING THE ATHLETES AROUND THE WORLD TO STAND UP FOR THEIR RIGHTS.

THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

IF YOU WANT TO FIND OUT WHAT IS COMING UP EVERY NIGHT, SIGN UP FOR OUR NEWSLETTER AT PBS.ORG/AMANPOUR -- THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON