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♪♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
THE UNBEARABLE SORROW OF BEING.
ONE YEAR SINCE HAMAS INVADED ISRAEL, KILLING AND KIDNAPPING, MEIRAV LESHEM GONEN TALKS ABOUT TRYING TO BRING HOME HER DAUGHTER, ROMI.
>> THEN -- >> TODAY, WE ARE ACTUALLY UNITED IN GRIEF, BUT WE ARE ALSO UNITED IN HOPE.
>> AND ISRAELI AND PALESTINIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS COME TOGETHER ON THEIR BATTERED BUT UNBOWED DREAM FOR PEACE.
PLUS -- >> LIFE AFTER COMING OUT OF GAZA HASN'T BEEN EASY AT ALL.
>> 12 MONTHS OF TRAUMA.
AL JAZEERA'S YOUMNA ELSAYED IS WITH HARI SREENIVASAN.
♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
ONE YEAR AGO TODAY, AT 6:29 A.M., HAMAS INVADED ISRAEL AND COMMITTED THE MOST HEINOUS OF CRIMES.
MURDERING MORE THAN 1,000 PEOPLE, MOSTLY CIVILIANS, TAKING 250 HOSTAGES, SCORING OF WHOM ARE STILL CAPTIVE TODAY.
ACROSS THE COUNTRY TODAY, CEREMONIES BEGAN AT THAT PRECISE TIME TO REMEMBER WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO THEM ALL AND TO THEIR NATION.
THERE WERE ALSO PROTESTS, EVEN ON THIS DAY, AT THE GOVERNMENT'S FAILURE TO UPHOLD THE UNIQUE CONTRACT WITH ITS PEOPLE, TO NEVER LEAVE ANYONE BEHIND, TO BRING HOME EVERY LAST HOSTAGE, NO MATTER THE COST.
SOME HOSTAGE FAMILIES HELD THEIR OWN EVENT THAT CRITICIZED PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU, WHILE THE GOVERNMENT CREATED ITS OWN PRERECORDED TRIBUTE.
THE PAST YEAR SINCE HAMAS INVADED HAS BEEN A CATASTROPHIC TRAUMA FOR ISRAEL, AND FOR JEWS ALL OVER THE WORLD.
THE ENSUING WAR HAS BEEN A CATASTROPHE FOR PALESTINIANS, AND THE WIDER REGIONAL WAR THAT WAS SO FEARED BACK THEN IS NOW UNDER WAY, WITH NO END IN SIGHT.
TONIGHT, WE WILL HEAR AGAIN FROM FOUR WOMEN WHO ALL SPOKE TO US ABOUT A YEAR AGO, WHO EACH HAS SUFFERED, WHO NONETHELESS, HOLDS HOPE IN THEIR HEARTS.
BUT FIRST, WE GO BACK TO OCTOBER 7th, AND WE LISTEN AGAIN TO THIS MAN, DESCRIBING THAT TERRIBLE DAY.
HE'S A YOUNG MAN WHO WENT TO THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL, TO HAVE FUN, NEVER IMAGINING WHAT WOULD HAPPEN, INSTEAD.
HE JOINED US BACK THEN FROM LIFE-SAVING TREATMENT IN HOSPITAL.
>> ONE OF THE PRODUCERS OF THE FESTIVAL JUST JUMP ON THE FENCE, AND SCREAMED THAT THE TERRORISTS ARE COMING, AND THEY'RE COMING ON LAND, FROM AIR, NOT MISSILE, AND THEN THE PANIC BEGIN.
IT WAS A BIG PANIC.
EVERYBODY WAS JUMPING ON THE FENCE, EVERYBODY RUN TO THEIR CARS.
I COULD NEVER FORGET THE FACE.
HE WAS SMILING AT US.
LOOKS LIKE THE DEVIL.
HE JUST LOOKED AT US, POINT THE GUN, THE MACHINE GUN IN FRONT OF A GIRL'S FACE AND JUST STARTED TO SPREAD EVERYTHING AROUND.
ALL THE PEOPLE -- I WAS IN THE SECOND ROW, ALL THE PEOPLE IN THE FIRST ROW, IN THE SECOND ROW SHOT DEAD.
I JUST OPENED MY EYES AND OPENED MY MOUTH AND START TO GO DOWN, UNDERSTOOD THAT I GOT HIT, BUT I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND YET, BECAUSE IT WAS BLOOD ALL OVER AND SCREAMING.
>> THE SHEER TERROR.
WE SPOKE ALSO TO A YOUNG WOMAN WHO TOLD US HOW HAMAS TERRORISTS BROKE DOWN HER DOOR THAT MORNING AND TOOK HER AWAY AT GUNPOINT, STILL IN HER PAJAMAS.
LATER, SHE FOUND OUT THAT HER FATHER HAD BEEN MURDERED.
SHE TALKED TO US, BECAUSE SHE'S ONE OF THE HOSTAGES WHO WAS FREED LAST NOVEMBER, IN THE ONLY NEGOTIATED RELEASE SO FAR.
SHE TOLD ME ABOUT HER HARROWING 55 DAYS IN CAPTIVITY.
>> WE WERE IN THE TUNNELS WHICH WAS ABOUT 40 METERS UNDERGROUND, SO OXYGEN WAS VERY LITTLE, AND WE WERE -- THE -- IT WAS -- WE FELT LIKE WEFOCAING ALL THE TIME.
IT WAS REALLY HARD TO BREATHE.
AND ALSO BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT OF ELDERLY PEOPLE WITH ME, IT HAD OTHER EFFECTS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS HARD FOR THEM TO BREATHE, SOMEONE HAD ASTHMA, WHICH MAKES IT HARDER TO BREATHE, THE SMELL IS TERRIBLE.
PEOPLE WERE WOUNDED WHEN THEY WERE TAKEN, WHEN THEY WERE ABDUCTED FROM THEIR HOME.
>> NOW, 23-YEAR-OLD ROMI GONEN HAS BEEN HELD HOSTAGE FOR 365 DAYS AND COUNTING, BECAUSE SHE ALSO WAS TAKEN THAT HORRIFIC DAY FROM THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL.
SHE SPENT HER 24th BIRTHDAY THIS SUMMER IN CAPTIVITY.
AND EVERY SINGLE DAY, HER MOTHER, MEIRAV, HAS BEEN FIGHTING TIRELESSLY TO BRING HER HOME.
WE SPOKE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN LATE OCTOBER LAST YEAR.
MEIRAV IS JOINING US AGAIN.
SO, WELCOME, IT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD, BUT THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US TODAY, AGAIN.
AND I WANT TO ASK YOU HOW YOU ARE -- HOW YOU ARE.
>> WOW, IT'S A BIG QUESTION.
FIRST, THANK YOU FOR HOSTING ME TODAY, THIS IS SUCH AN IMPORTANT ISSUE TO -- TO TALK TODAY, AND REMIND EVERYBODY THAT THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE KEPT ALIVE AND SOME OF THEM ARE ALREADY MURDERED, IN HAMAS HANDS FOR A YEAR.
THIS IS, YOU KNOW, AGONIZING.
THIS IS -- I CANNOT EVEN EXPLAIN HOW IT IS -- HOW YOU FEEL WHEN YOU WAKE UP IN THE MORNING AND FOR THE FIRST MOMENTS, YOU HOPE THIS IS ONLY A NIGHTMARE, A DREAM, A BAD DREAM.
BUT THEN YOU ARE WAKING UP TO A REALITY, OUT OF MY FIVE KIDS, I HAVE ONE KID WHICH I DIDN'T HEAR HER VOICE FOR A YEAR.
I DON'T KNOW HOW SHE LOOKS LIKE TODAY, HOW SHE'S HOLDING UP.
IS -- DID SHE LOSE HER HAND, BECAUSE SHE WAS SHOT ON THAT DAY?
IS SHE SMILING LIKE SHE'S ALWAYS SMILED?
AND THIS IS SO AGONIZING, SO DIFFICULT.
>> MEIRAV, YOU JUST EXPLAINED TO US HOW SHE WAS NOT JUST KIDNAPPED, BUT SHOT THAT DAY, AND YOU ACTUALLY DID MANAGE TO GET A CALL IN TO HER, OR SOMEHOW YOU GUYS CONNECTED, AS THIS TERRIBLE THING WAS HAPPENING, AND WE HAVE GOT YOUR PERMISSION TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF THAT.
AND IT'S PRETTY TRAUMATIC, AND WE'RE GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF YOUR CONVERSATION, THE LAST TIME YOU SPOKE TO YOUR DAUGHTER.
>> SO, THAT WAS YOUR SIDE OF THE CONVERSATION.
I SEE YOUR EYES ARE CLOSED.
WAS SHE ABLE TO SAY ANYTHING TO YOU?
>> SHE -- SHE SPOKE AT FIRST.
SHE WAS CALLING ME AT 10:15 THAT MORNING.
WE WERE ON THE PHONE FOR ALMOST 4 1/2 HOURS, BUT THE LAST CALL STARTED AT 10:14, WHEN SHE WAS CALLING ME AND SAYING THAT SHE WAS SHOT, THAT HER FRIEND, HER BEST FRIEND WAS MURDERED, THE DRIVER WAS MURDERED, AND THAT ANOTHER BOY IN THE CAR IS ALSO SHOT.
SHE WAS BLEEDING, SHE WAS SURE SHE'S GOING TO DIE.
AND YOU CAN HEAR THE SHOOTING AROUND THE CAR.
THIS IS MY -- SHE WAS 23, NOW SHE'S ALREADY 24, SHE'S MY KID, SHE'S MY BABY, WITH A LOT OF HAMAS TERRORISTS AROUND HER, SHOUTING.
45 MINUTES, WHICH, AT FIRST, SHE WAS SPEAKING, SHE WAS TELLING ME WHAT IS GOING AROUND, AND THEN AT A CERTAIN MINUTE, SHE WAS HUSHING ME, AND I JUST LISTENED AND I LISTENED TO THE SHOOTING AROUND HER, TO -- TO THE TERRORISTS SHOUTING AND TAKING HER, DRAGGING HER OUT OF THE CAR.
SHE'S JUST A GIRL.
SHE JUST WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, TO BE AT THE FESTIVAL, AND I THINK WE HAVE TO -- WE HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE BETWEEN PALESTINE AND ISRAEL, THIS IS AN ISSUE BETWEEN HAMAS, WHICH IS AN TERROR ORGANIZATION, WHICH TERRORIZED ALSO THE GAZA PEOPLE.
THIS IS SOMETHING WHICH THREATENS THE WHOLE WORLD, NOT JUST IN ISRAEL, IT STARTED IN ISRAEL, IT HAPPENED IN ISRAEL, AND WE ARE FIGHTING BACK, BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THE WHOLE WORLD SHOULD -- SHOULD TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, AS THE WORLD DOES, MAYBE THIS IS THE PLACE TO SAY THANK YOU, THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS IS NOT JUST ISRAEL FIGHTING.
YOU SEE WHAT IS GOING AROUND US.
I LIVE IN THE NORTH, JUST TODAY, ON THE SEVENTH OF OCTOBER, THE HOUSES AROUND MY HOUSE WERE SHOT BY MISSILES FROM HEZBOLLAH, SO, YOU CAN UNDERSTAND, THIS IS -- WE'RE A SMALL COUNTRY, WITH SO MANY TERROR ORGANIZATIONS AROUND US THAT WANTS TO ELIMINATE US, AND THANK YOU FOR BEING THERE FOR US, AND I THINK THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT WILL HELP US WIN, BECAUSE WE NEED TO PUSH THE HAMAS VERY STRONGLY, US, THE FREE COUNTRIES, THE DEMOCRACIES.
WE HAVE TO FIGHT THE HAMAS AND PUSH THEM AND LET THEM KNOW THAT WE WILL NOT BREAK, BECAUSE WE ARE THE GOOD, AND THE HAMAS IS EVIL.
EVIL ALSO TO THE GAZA PEOPLE.
>> MEIRAV, CAN I ASK YOU, BECAUSE YOU JUST BROUGHT IT UP, OBVIOUSLY, THERE IS A BIG CAR GOING ON ON ALL FRONTS AROUND YOUR COUNTRY.
DO YOU SUPPORT THE WAR AGAINST HEZBOLLAH, AND DO YOU THINK THAT IT WILL MAKE YOU SAFER, THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO GO BACK TO YOUR HOME IN THE NORTH?
>> NOBODY WANTS WAR.
NOBODY.
I THINK PEOPLE DOESN'T KNOW THAT THE NORTH WAS BOMBED FOR THIS YEAR, EVERY -- ALMOST EVERY DAY, NOT ALMOST, EVERY DAY, THE HEZBOLLAH WAS SHOOTING AT PLACES, ALMOST NO HOUSES WERE STANDING IN THE AREA.
AND THE WORLD DOESN'T KNOW THAT.
THERE IS A CERTAIN POINT WHEN, YOU KNOW, YOU CANNOT JUST STAND AND SEE WHAT IS GOING ON AND LET THE HEZBOLLAH DO WHAT IT WANTS.
AT A CERTAIN POINT, YOU HAVE TO SAY, THAT'S ENOUGH.
NOW WE'RE STOPPING IT.
I'M NOT PRO-WAR.
I'M PRO-PEACE.
BUT THIS IS NOT WHAT HEZBOLLAH SEEKS, THIS IS NOT WHAT THE HAMAS SEEKS.
THEY ARE SEEKING TO ELIMINATE US, THE ISRAELI PEOPLE.
THEY ARE SEEKING TO ELIMINATE THE FREE WORLD, AND WE SHOULD NOT LET THEM HAVE THAT.
I ASSUME THAT ALL OF THIS WILL -- WILL BE FINISHED IN AN AGREEMENT, BUT AN AGREEMENT WHICH WE, THE STRONG WORLD, WILL ALSO HAVE A SAY IN THAT, AND THIS IS SOMETHING WE HAVE TO HAVE YOUR HELP, I THINK, AND I THINK THE U.S.
UNDERSTANDS THAT ALSO, AND I THANK THEM FOR HOLDING THE DEMOCRACY IN THE -- IN THE WEST, HERE, IN THE -- SORRY, IN THE MIDDLE EAST.
>> I UNDERSTAND, I UNDERSTAND.
MEIRAV, CAN I ASK YOU AGAIN ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER?
YOU KNOW THAT SOME HOSTAGES HAVE COME HOME, WERE RELEASED IN NEGOTIATIONS AT THE END OF NOVEMBER, SOME HAVE BEEN RESCUED, AND SOME HAVE BEEN KILLED.
HAS -- HAS ANYBODY BEEN ABLE TO TELL YOU ANYTHING ABOUT YOUR DAUGHTER?
DID ANY OF THE RETURNED HOSTAGES SEE HER, DID -- DID YOU HEAR ANYTHING?
>> YES, FIRST, I HAVE TO JUST SAY THAT THERE ARE SOME HOSTAGES THAT WERE KILLED, BUT MOST OF THEM WERE MURDERED BY THE HAMAS, 27 HOSTAGES AND MOST OF THEM WERE MURDERED BY THE HAMAS, THE SIX YOUNG PEOPLE JUST ONE MONTH AGO.
AND, YES, AND IN THE PREVIOUS RELEASES, SOME OF THE WOMEN THAT RETURNED, THEY WERE WITH ROMI, MY ROMI, AND THEY CAME BACK WITH STORIES, FUNNY STORIES AND SOME DISTURBING ALSO STORIES.
SHE'S HOLDING UP, SHE WAS SAYING, SHE'S HOLDING UP FOR ME.
AND I WANT HER TO SEE ME, AND I WANT HER TO SEE THAT I'M STRONG, I'M STRONG FOR HER, I'M STRONG FOR HER BROTHERS AND SISTERS.
I'M STRONG ALSO -- ALSO FOR YOU, FOR THE AMERICAN CITIZENS THAT YOU WILL KNOW THAT WE ARE STRONG, BECAUSE WE ARE FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE AND THEY ALSO SAID THAT SHE -- SHE LOST THE COLOR IN HER FINGERS WAS CHANGING, THAT HER HAND IS NOT FUNCTIONING.
AND I THOUGHT, THAT TIME, I THOUGHT, WOW, SHE'S GOING TO LOSE HER HAND, WE HAVE TO BRING HER BACK, BUT TODAY, I'M SAYING, IT DOESN'T MATTER IF SHE LOST HER HAND, WE JUST HAVE TO BRING HER BACK ALIVE.
BECAUSE AS WE KNOW, THE CONDITIONS IN THE TUNNELS ARE IMPOSSIBLE, THEY ARE BARELY SURVIVING, AND WE HAVE TO BRING THEM BACK.
ALIVE.
>> WHAT -- WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT YOUR GOVERNMENT TO DO TO BRING THEM BACK?
>> I THINK THE MOST IMPORTANT THING FOR MY GOVERNMENT AND FOR ALL THE COALITION GOVERNMENT, FIRST TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE'RE FIGHTING THE EVIL, AND SECOND, WE HAVE TO TAKE THE MEASURES, IT MIGHT BE DIFFICULT, IT MIGHT BE NOT EASY, IT'S A HARD DECISION FOR LEADERS TO TAKE, BUT I THINK, AS THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, AS THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND THE PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH US, THE PEOPLE THAT UNDERSTAND DEMOCRACY AND FREE WORLD, THIS IS -- WE HAVE TO BE STRONG TOGETHER, AND THE LEADERS NEED TO BE STRONG AS THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL, AND I THINK THIS IS -- WE GIVE A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE TO OUR LEADERS, HOW WE SHOULD ACT.
AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN ISRAEL UNDERSTAND THAT WE DON'T WANT HAMAS TO CONTINUE RULING IN GAZA, AND YET, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE BRINGING THE HOSTAGES NOW, AND THIS WILL TAKE DIFFICULT MEASURES, BUT TOGETHER, WE WILL SUCCEED.
>> AND VERY BRIEFLY, IF YOU CAN, I MEAN, WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR HEART WHEN YOU -- WELL, WHEN YOU MARKED HER BIRTHDAY ON -- IN AUGUST, AND SHE WAS STILL IN CAPTIVITY?
>> IT WAS SO DIFFICULT.
AT FIRST, WE WANTED TO HIDE THE FACT THAT SHE HAD A BIRTHDAY, BUT AT THE CERTAIN POINT, WE THOUGHT THAT MAYBE SHE WILL SEE IT, SHE WILL SEE THE WHOLE COUNTRY COVERED WITH, LIKE MY PIN, BECAUSE ROMI LIKES THAT, AND WE DECIDED TO MAKE THIS DAY A DAY THAT BRINGS LIGHT TO OTHER PEOPLE, TO BRING STRENGTH TO OTHER PEOPLE, AND I THINK WE SUCCEEDED.
MORE THAN 100,000 PEOPLE SAW THE LIVE VIDEO OF THE CEREMONY WE DID NEAR THE SEA AT THE CENTER FOR PEACE, AND I THINK IT STRENGTHENED NOT JUST US, BUT ALSO, A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WAS SHARING WITH US THIS BIRTHDAY, SO, ALSO THANK YOU FOR THAT.
>> MEIRAV, YOU'RE KEEPING HER ALIVE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.
MEIRAV, THE MOM OF ROMI GONEN.
>> THANK YOU.
>>> THROUGHOUT THIS HORRIFIC YEAR, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME STORIES OF SOME HOPE, LIKE THE WORK OF TWO WOMEN.
MAY IS AN ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER AND CODECKIVE DIRECTOR OF A LAND FOR ALL, A MOVEMENT THAT DREAMS OF A CONFEDERACY-LIKE KIND OF SOLUTION THAT SHE CALLS TWO-STATE SOLUTION 2.0.
HER FATHER WAS ONE OF THE ARCHITECTS OF THE OSLO PEACE ACCORDS OF 1993.
RANA IS CODIRECTOR OF COMBATANTS FOR PEACE, WORKING WITH FORMER ISRAELI SOLDIERS AND PALESTINIAN FIGHTERS NOW SEARCHING FOR NONVIOLENT SOLUTIONS.
I FIRST SPOKE TO THEM BACK IN DECEMBER, AND SINCE THEN, THEY'VE WORKED TOGETHER IN BRIDGING THE DIVIDES.
THEY JOIN ME, AND THEY JOIN THE PROGRAM AGAIN TODAY, TO REFLECT ON THIS PAINFUL PAST YEAR.
MAY AND RANA, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, ON THIS TERRIBLE DAY.
WE SPOKE TO YOU ABOUT TEN MONTHS AGO.
MAY, FIRST, TO YOU, BEING IN ISRAEL, WHAT ARE YOU FEELING TODAY?
AND DO YOU -- DID YOU THINK THAT YOU WOULD BE IN THIS SITUATION, A FULL YEAR LATER?
>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE, FOR THE QUESTION, AND FOR HAVING US.
HONESTLY, RANA AND I WERE TALKING ON THE PHONE JUST BEFORE JOINING YOU TODAY, AND WE WERE SHOCKED BY THE FACT THAT WE ARE STILL HERE, IN THE WAR.
I DON'T THINK THAT ANYONE BELIEVED IT WOULD BE SO LONG AND SO HIDEOUS.
AND I AM SO SCARED TO SAY THAT WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHEN IT'S GOING TO END, SO -- TO BE HONEST, THESE ARE VERY, VERY DARK DAYS IN ISRAEL AND PALESTINE.
AND I THINK THAT NO ONE HAS EXPECTED IT TO BE SO, SO GRIM, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHY WE FEEL SO EMPOWERED TO BE DOING THIS WORK NOW MORE THAN EVER.
>> WELL, I'M GOING TO GET TO THAT IN A MOMENT, BECAUSE IT TAKES GREAT STRENGTH TO BE ABLE TO CONTINUE THAT KIND OF WORK UNDER THESE KINDS OF CIRCUMSTANCES.
RANA, I WANT TO ASK YOU, HOW YOU'RE FEELING, HOW YOUR PALESTINIAN FAMILY IS FEELING, AND WHAT IT'S LIKE ON THE WEST BANK, WHICH IS IN THIS INTERVENING YEAR BECOME A GROUND ZERO, AS WELL.
>> YEAH, THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE, FOR HAVING US.
WE ACTUALLY WOKE UP TODAY WITH THE SAME SENSE OF FEELING, THAT SOMETHING TERRIBLE MIGHT HAPPEN, WHICH IS LIKE WHAT WE FEEL EVERY DAY, BECAUSE UNEXPECTED EVENTS ARE HAPPENING DAILY, VIOLENT IMAGES, THE DEVASTATION, MORE VIOLENCE, MORE DESTRUCTION, MORE LOSS OF LIFE.
TODAY, WE ARE ACTUALLY UNITED IN GRIEF, BUT WE ARE ALSO UNITED IN HOPE.
AND WE USE THIS TIME NOT ONLY FOR REFLECTION, BUT FOR ACTION, AND AS MAY SAID, WE HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO, BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE THAT THE CEASE-FIRE IS COMING SOON, AND WE'RE MEETING HERE AGAIN AFTER ONE YEAR OF THIS TERRIBLE WAR TO SAY THE EXACTLY SAME THING, THAT THERE'S NO MILITARY SOLUTION FOR OUR CONFLICT.
>> I'M REALLY FASCINATED THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW EACH OTHER BEFORE YOU WERE INTERVIEWED THIS TIME LAST YEAR, BY "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND BY US, AND YOU JUST SAID THAT YOU WERE TALKING ON THE PHONE AHEAD OF, OR SOMEHOW TALKING AHEAD OF THIS CONVERSATION.
WHAT WERE YOU SAYING, BOTH OF YOU?
AND WHAT HAS BEEN YOUR EXPERIENCE OUT OF THE -- OUT OF THE ASHES OF WHAT HAPPENED A YEAR AGO, THAT YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO CONNECT AND TRY TO -- TO TAKE YOUR WORK FORWARD?
>> YEAH, I -- I WOULD SAY THAT THE ASHES ARE ONGOING, RIGHT?
I MEAN, TODAY WE MARK THE SEVENTH OF OCTOBER AND A YEAR TO THIS ATROCIOUS WAR THAT IS STILL KILLING PEOPLE EVERY DAY, AND I THINK THAT IT'S IMPORTANT TO MENTION THAT THE WAR IS ONGOING IN GAZA, IN ISRAEL, IN PALESTINE AND THE WEST BANK, FOR PALESTINIAN CITIZENS OF ISRAEL, NOW IN LEBANON, AND IT'S -- WE'RE ON THE VERGE OF A REGIONAL WAR, AND SO, I THINK THAT IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO ALSO BE CLEAR THAT WE ARE NOT ENDING ANYTHING, WE ARE REALLY IN THE MIDST OF THE TRAGEDY ITSELF, THE SITUATION IN ISRAEL IS ALSO LOOKING EXTREMELY DARK AND, SO, I WANT TO START WITH THAT, I'LL JUST SAY ABOUT HOW WONDERFUL IT'S BEEN TO BE WORKING AND TALKING TO RANA.
WE'VE BEEN TALKING A LOT ABOUT HOW, YOU KNOW, OCTOBER 7th HAS BEEN ALSO AN OPPORTUNITY AND A MARK FOR THE PEACE CAMP TO AWAKEN, BUT IT HASN'T ONLY AWAKENED, IT HAS ALSO CHOSE A NEW DIRECTION, AND THAT NEW DIRECTION IS TRULY BASED ON MOVING AWAY FROM THE PARADIGM OF SEGREGATION AND ZERO SUM GAME, INTO THE UNDERSTANDING OF INTERDEPENDENCY AND FUTURE INTEREST, SHARED INTEREST, SHARED FUTURE, AND PARTNERSHIP.
AND RANA AND I ARE ONE EXAMPLE, AND OUR RELATIONSHIP IS ONE EXAMPLE, AND OUR WORKS, OUR ORGANIZATIONS, IS A GOOD EXAMPLE OF THIS NEW DIRECTION THAT PEACE AND HOPE AND VISION NEEDS TO GO FORWARD TOWARDS.
AND I THINK THAT THAT HAS REALLY BROUGHT US EVEN CLOSER TOGETHER THIS YEAR.
>> MAY, BEFORE I TURN TO RANA, DO YOU FEEL LIKE AN OUTLIER A LITTLE?
OR ARE THERE MANY ISRAELIS THAT FEEL THAT WAY?
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, SO MANY STILL, AS YOU SAY, IT'S ONGOING, THE TRAUMA HASN'T ENDED, IT'S STILL VERY, VERY TERRIBLE AND SHOCKING FOR SO MANY OF YOUR COMPATRIOTS.
DO YOU FEEL THAT THERE IS A SPACE, A MEANINGFUL SPACE, FOR YOUR KIND OF WORK?
BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, THE POLLS SHOW THAT MOST PEOPLE SUPPORT THE ONGOING WAR AND SEE THAT AS A WAY TO END THIS THREAT.
>> YEAH, I WOULD SAY THAT AS PER USUAL, THINGS, YOU KNOW, ARE NOT EITHER/OR.
AND ON ONE HAND, I -- IT'S CLEAR THAT THE ISRAELI PEOPLE, AND I TALK ON BEHALF OF THE ISRAELI JEWS TODAY,BEHALF, BUT ABOUT US, WE ARE VERY, VERY DEEPLY IN TRAUMA.
WE ARE ENTRENCHED IN OUR FEAR AND HORROR.
AND THAT IS REAL.
AND I THINK THAT IS ALSO WHAT IS ALLOWING THIS AWFUL GOVERNMENT WE HAVE TO STAY IN POWER.
THAT IS A MANIPULATION OF THIS FEAR AND TRAUMA.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK IT'S GETTING MORE AND MORE CLEAR THAT OCTOBER 7th IS A DAY OF HUGE TRAGEDY IN A YEAR OF -- OF VIOLENCE, BUT IT'S ALSO THE DAY WHERE PEOPLE REALIZE THAT NORMALIZATION AND SHRINKING THE CONFLICT AND TESTIMONY STATUS QUO HAS FAILED US AS ISRAELIS IN ENSURING OUR SAFETY AND SECURITY.
SO, IN THAT DAY, I THINK THAT ISRAELIS TODAY ARE MOVING AT THE SAME TIME WITH THEIR FEAR AND TRAUMA AND FEELING THEY HAVE TO LIVE ON THE SWORD, TO REALIZE THAT NO VIOLENCE AND NO MILITARY SOLUTION WILL EVER END OR ENSURE OUR SAFETY.
AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS STARTING TO PENETRATE INTO THE COLLECTIVE PSYCHE, THAT THIS GOVERNMENT HAS FAILED US, THAT WE CANNOT TRUST IT.
AND THAT IN ORDER TO CHANGE IT, IN ORDER TO SEE A BETTER FUTURE IN ORDER NOT TO GO TO FUNERALS DAY AFTER DAY, AND NOT CHOOSE VIOLENCE AS THE ULTIMATE AND ONLY SOLUTION, WE HAVE TO OFFER AN ALTERNATIVE.
WE HAVE TO OFFER LIFE, WE HAVE TO CELEBRATE BIRTHDAYS, WE HAVE TO OFFER A POLITICAL VISION THAT WILL ALLOW US TO MOVE AWAY FROM THE FAKE STATUS QUO AND NOT DOING ANYTHING AND THINKING THAT WE CAN FOREVER, YOU KNOW, LIVE AS USUAL HERE, WHILE OCCUPATION AND APARTHEID CONTINUE AND ACTUALLY MOVE TOWARD THE ONLY VIABLE FUTURE, WHICH IS BRAVE PEACE.
AND A SOLUTION TO THE ISRAELI-PALESTINIAN CONFLICT IS THE ONLY WAY.
I THINK THESE TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING AT THE SAME TIME, AND THAT WE ARE REALLY PUSHING TO INTEGRATE AND TO PUSH THESE IDEAS FROM WITHIN, AND I CAN TELL YOU, CHRISTIANE, THAT A LAND FOR ALL AND I KNOW COMBATANTS FOR PEACE, AS WELL, WE HAVE BEEN GROWING SIGNIFICANTLY, AT THE SAME TIME AS THESE TERROR HAUNTING ALL OF US.
>> RANA, IT WOULD BE GREAT IF THAT WAS THE CASE, IF THAT IS THE CASE, IT IS GREAT.
IT IS REALLY GROWING ON THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK?
I MEAN, LET'S JUST TAKE THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU ARE, COMPARED TO GAZA.
IS THERE REALLY A CONSTITUENCY FOR A TWO-STATE SOLUTION AND TO WORK WITH ISRAELIS, LIKE-MINDED ISRAELIS?
>> I WOULD SAY, ACTUALLY, YES, BECAUSE I KNOW THERE HAS BEEN SEVERAL POLLS SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, BUT THERE HAS BEEN ALSO NEW STATISTICS, AND NEW PROOF THAT MORE PEOPLE ARE IN FAVOR TO THE TWO-STATE NEGOTIATIONS, AND TO END VIOLENCE, POLITICAL SETTLEMENTS.
AND I WOULD SAY FROM OUR OWN WORK, BECAUSE THAT'S THE LIVING PROOF THAT I ENCOUNTER EVERY DAY, AND THE MORE INTEREST OF YOUNG ACTIVISTS JOINING OUR PROGRAMS, OUR ACTIVITIES, OUR NONVIOLENT PROTESTS, WHETHER IT'S IN THE WEST BANK, THAT'S VERY INSPIRING AND EMPOWERING TO US TO SEE THOSE YOUNG GENERATIONS RAISING UP THEIR VOICES TO DEMAND A CEASE-FIRE, TO END THIS WAR, AND TO PUSH TOWARDS A POLITICAL SOLUTION THAT BOTH NATIONS ARE IN DESPERATE NEED TO.
>> RANA, YOU KNOW, MAY JUST SPOKE ABOUT HER FEELINGS ABOUT THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, AND I JUST WANT TO ASK WHETHER YOU FEEL YOU HAVE A COMPETENT LEADERSHIP THAT ACTUALLY BELIEVES IN THE SAME THINGS THAT YOU'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW.
THE POLLS, AS YOU KNOW, CONSIDER YOUR LEADERSHIP REALLY, REALLY, REALLY BAD, AND EVEN THE LATEST SURVEYS SHOW THAT ON THE OCCUPIED WEST BANK, THE -- WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, APPROVAL, SUPPORT FOR HAMAS IS GROWING, ALONG WITH WHAT YOU SAY, THE IDEA OF A SOLUTION, A TWO-STATE SOLUTION.
BUT DO YOU SEE ANY LEADERSHIP RIGHT NOW, OR THE POSSIBILITY OF CREATING A NEW LEADERSHIP FROM, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELF AND YOUR GENERATION?
>> I THINK WE HAVE SEEN SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WAR, THE POOR PERFORMANCE OF OUR LEADERSHIP IN PALESTINE AND IN ISRAEL.
THEY ARE LEADING US TO MORE DEATH AND DESTRUCTION, BUT I DON'T WANT TO DENY THE POWER DYNAMICS BETWEEN THE TWO POWERS, BECAUSE ISRAEL IS DEFINITELY THE OCCUPYING POWER, AND IT HAS MORE POWER TO STOP THIS -- THIS WAR, EVENTUALLY.
AND ESPECIALLY WITH THE INTERFERENCE OF THE U.S., SINCE IT IS THE STRONGEST ALLY TO ISRAEL.
SO, I KNOW IT'S POSSIBLE.
AND FOR THE PALESTINIAN GOVERNMENT, I KNOW THE PERFORMANCE HASN'T BEEN AS EXPECTED, AND -- OR THE LEVEL THAT IT SHOULD BE, BUT I ALSO AGREE THAT WE NEED A NEW LEADERSHIP.
THERE IS A NEW GENERATION OF SKILLED, QUALIFIED, VERY MOTIVATED YOUNG LEADERS THAT NEED TO HAVE A CHANCE TO BE IN THESE LEADERSHIP POSITIONS, TO TAKE CONTROL, TO LEAD US IN A DIFFERENT ERA.
>> SO, LET ME JUST QUOTE SOME THINGS, AND I -- BECAUSE THE -- THE KEY, I GUESS, FOR BOTH OF YOU, IS, AND BOTH OF YOUR ORGANIZATIONS, IS TO TRY TO -- TRY TO -- TRY TO GROW THAT NEW LEADERSHIP AND BRING PEOPLE INTO THE PROCESS.
SO, JUST WANT TO READ YOU THESE RATHER STARTLING STATISTICS.
SO, THIS IS THE RECENT POLL FROM ISRAEL, AND THE POLL FROM THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES, SO, 80% OF PALESTINIANS BELIEVE THAT THEIR RECENT YEARS OF SUFFERING IN GAZA JUSTIFIED OCTOBER 7th.
84% OF ISRAELI JEWS BELIEVE THAT OCTOBER 7th JUSTIFIES THE WAR.
I SORT OF ALLUDED TO THAT.
89% OF PALESTINIANS BELIEVE THE LAND VERY MUCH BELONGS TO THEM.
92% OF ISRAELI JEWS SAYS THE LAND VERY MUCH BELONGS TO THEM.
SO, MAY, WE KNOW THAT YOUR FATHER WAS ONE OF THE GREAT NEGOTIATORS, THE ONLY PEACE PROCESS THAT HAD A FIGHTING CHANCE BEFORE IT WAS KILLED OFF, THE OSLO PROCESS.
THOSE KINDS OF FIGURES LOOK LIKE THEY'RE HARD TO BRIDGE.
AND ESPECIALLY IN THIS REALLY DARK TIME, WHEN NOBODY, OR, NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE, CAN SEE A WAY OUT.
>> YEAH.
I AGREE, AND I -- IT'S IMPORTANT ALSO TO SAY, LIKE RANA WAS SAYING ABOUT THE POWER DYNAMIC, NEITHER RANA OR I ARE HERE TO SELL A FALSE ROMANTICISM THAT EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE IF WE JUST WORK TOGETHER AND THERE'S TONS OF HOPE -- NO, ISRAEL AND PALESTINIAN ARE BROKEN.
THE SOCIETIES ARE BROKEN.
AND I FEEL REALLY THAT THE -- THE -- THERE'S SUCH DESPAIR AND IT'S GROWING EVERY, EVERY, EVERY DAY.
AND THE ONLY WAY TO FIGHT THAT DESPAIR IS TO CREATE ALTERNATIVES.
AN ALTERNATIVE VISION, POLITICAL IMAGINATION, AND THAT HAS TO BE BASED ON EQUALITY.
THAT HAS TO BE BASED ON VALUES.
BUT IT HAS TO BE BASED ON PRAGUE MATISM.
WE DON'T DO IT BECAUSE WE LOVE PEACE AND LOVE, WE DO IT BECAUSE WE'RE FIGHTING FOR OUR FUTURE HERE, FOR OURSELVES, EACH OF US, AND WE UNDERSTAND THAT THE ONLY WAY TO ACHIEVE THAT IS TOGETHER.
AND SO, THESE STATISTICS, I HAVE TO SAY THAT EVERYONE IS IN SUCH TRAUMA THAT I WOULDN'T COUNT ON THESE NUMBERS TO SAY ANYTHING, YOU KNOW -- 30 DAYS BEFORE THE BERLIN WALL FELL, NO ONE BELIEVED IT WOULD EVER FALL.
AND SO, I REALLY THINK THAT WE SHOULD TAKE THESE NUMBERS AND THINK ABOUT THEM CAREFULLY.
AND THE OTHER THING THAT WE NEED TO DO IS REALLY CREATE AN ALTERNATIVE NARRATIVE.
WASN'T THAT DOESN'T LEAD EVERYONE TO MORE DESPAIR AND MORE VIOLENCE AND FEELING THAT THERE'S A ZERO SUM GAME THAT WE HAVE TO WIN.
IN A WAY, BOTH RANA AND I, I WANT TO SAY, ARE OFFERING THAT ALTERNATIVE, AND ONE OF THOSE FACTORS, THAT THERE IS ONE HOMELAND.
IN ISRAEL-PALESTINE, BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE SEA, THERE ARE 7 MILLION PALESTINIANS AND 7 MILLION ISRAELI JEWS.
WE ARE STUCK TOGETHER, NO ONE'S GOING ANYWHERE.
AND NOW, IT FEELS WE HAVE A BLOODY FUTURE, OR WE CHOOSE TO LIVE TOGETHER AND FIND A WAY TO DO THAT THAT IS RESPECTFUL AND SEPARATE, BUT ALSO UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT IS THE ONLY WAY OUT.
SO, CREATING THAT ALTERNATIVE NARRATIVE, TO PUSH THESE PERCENTAGE AND POLLS BACK, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE TO DO.
>> AND RANA, YOU, TOO, I MEAN, THE WAY HAMAS IS BEING VIEWED IN GAZA IS LESS POSITIVE THAN ACTUALLY ON THE WEST BANK, SO -- HOW DO YOU SEE BEING ABLE TO -- TO INCLUDE GAZA?
BECAUSE NO POLITICIANS, INCLUDING YOUR OWN, REALLY, HAVE PUT ANY PLAN FORWARD FOR, IF THERE WAS EVER TO BE A DAY AFTER.
AND CURRENTLY, THE WEST BANK IS UNDER HUGE MILITARY THREAT.
AND ACTION.
>> IT IS.
IT IS.
ACTUALLY, I WAS JUST TELLING THAT MY MORNING, I WAS STOPPED BY A CHECKPOINT BY SOLDIERS, AND I WAS -- MY PHOTO WAS TAKEN.
BECAUSE THERE IS THIS SENSE OF FEAR AND INSECURITY THAT WE HAVE BEEN FEEL, NOT ONLY THROUGHOUT THE LAST YEAR, BUT FOR THE LAST 75-PLUS YEARS OF OCCUPATION.
AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WE NEED TO TACKLE ON THE ROOT CAUSES OF THIS CONFLICT, TO CALL FOR AN END TO OCCUPATION, BECAUSE PALESTINIANS ARE STRUGGLING TO GET TO THEIR FREEDOM, AND TO LIVE IN PEACE AND SECURITY AND DIGNITY, AND JUSTICE, WITH EQUAL RIGHTS, AND THEY THINK THIS IS POSSIBLE FOR ALL PEOPLE THAT LIVE BETWEEN THE RIVER AND THE SEA, THIS IS LIKE THEIR BASIC CRIES.
AND FOR ISRAELIS, AS WELL, TO FEEL SECURE.
THIS IS WHAT HAS TO HAPPEN, LIKE, FOR BOTH NATIONS, SO, THAT WE CAN LIVE ON THIS LAND THAT WE BOTH CALL OUR HOMELAND, IN PEACE AND IN DIGNITY.
>> I JUST WANT TO ASK YOU BOTH, WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO ACTUALLY MEET, AFTER KNOWING OF EACH OTHER, AND HAVING BEEN INTERVIEWED, YOU KNOW, ON DIFFERENT SIDES OF THE -- OF THE DIVIDE, AND HOW THAT MEETING HAS CHANGED, MAYBE, OR SHAPED YOUR COMMITMENT TO PEACE AND TO THE ACTIVISM, MAY, YOU FIRST.
>> YEAH, WELL, YOU KNOW, THIS -- THE WORK THAT WE DO IS SO PERSONAL AND POLITICAL AND IT'S ALL KIND OF TIED IN TOGETHER, AND I THINK THAT WE DO IT BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, TO TAKE CARE OF OUR FAMILIES AND TO TAKE CARE OF OUR PEOPLE AND OUR CHILDREN AND TO ENSURE THEM A BETTER LIFE, AND WITHIN THAT PERSONAL WORK, YOU KNOW, THE RELATIONSHIPS AND BUILDING THESE PARTNERSHIP AND BRIDGES IS REALLY WHAT WE'RE COMMITTED TO DOING.
SO, FOR ME, MEETING RANA WAS NEARLY -- RANA, I WONDER WHAT YOU WOULD SAY, SO NATURAL.
WE MET, IT WAS IMMEDIATELY LIKE WE'VE MET A MILLION TIMES.
WE SHARE THE SAME LANGUAGE, WE SHARE THE SAME VISION, THE SAME ANALYSIS, WE FIGHT THE SAME FIGHT, WE SHARE THE SAME VALUES, AND MEETING PEOPLE LIKE THAT MAKE THIS WORK MUCH EASIER TO CARRY THE LOAD WHEN YOU DO IT TOGETHER, BECAUSE WE'RE NOT ALONE.
WE ARE THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE THAT ARE CARRYING AND PUSHING THIS FORWARD, SO, IT'S BEEN SUCH A PLEASURE AND HONOR AND FEELS SO, SO NATURAL.
>> RANA?
>> YEAH, I -- I WOULD -- I WOULD SAY IT FELT ALSO THE SAME, BECAUSE WE HAVE BEEN DOING INTERVIEWS BEFORE WE ACTUALLY MET IN PERSON, AND WHEN I FIRST MET MAY, I FELT LIKE I'VE KNOWN HER FOR SO LONG, IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE THAT I HAVEN'T MET HER BEFORE, AND I THINK IT'S TRUE, BECAUSE WE BOTH WORK IN THE PEACE CAMP, AND WE ENVISION A FUTURE THAT IS ROOTED IN JUSTICE AND PEACE, AND WE KNOW THAT WE SHARE THAT PARTNERSHIP, AND WE KNOW THAT WE ARE MORE STRENGTHENED, MORE EMPOWERED, WHEN WE DO THAT TOGETHER.
WE'RE EMBODYING THE FUTURE THAT WE WANT TO SEE, AND TO BRING ABOUT.
THAT'S WHAT MAKES US MORE POWERFUL, AND THAT'S WHAT WE ARE WORKING TO REACH TO THAT VISION.
AND IT'S -- IT'S AN HONOR TO DO THAT ALONGSIDE WITH MAY AND TO DO THIS INTERVIEW, ALSO, ALONGSIDE HER, AND TO CONTINUE THIS WORK AND NOT GIVE UP ON HOPE.
>> WELL, IT'S A RAY OF BEAUTY THAT YOU BROUGHT ON THIS DARK DAY, AND IN THESE DARK TIMES.
SO, WE WISH YOU THE BEST, AND THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING WITH US.
RANA AND MAY, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> THANK YOU.
>> THANK YOU, CHRISTIANE.
>> TWO EXTRAORDINARY WOMEN WAGING PEACE.
>>> THE DAY AFTER OCTOBER 7th, ISRAEL LAUNCHED ITS COUNTEROFFENSIVE ON HAMAS IN GAZA.
THE GOVERNMENT SAYS IT HAS KILLED THOUSANDS OF MILITANTS AND SEVERELY DISRUPTED AND DEGRADED THE TERROR GROUP'S COMMAND STRUCTURE.
BUT IN A YEAR OF WAR, WITH AIR STRIKES, TANK FIRE, ARTILLERY, AND GUNS, THEY ARE KILLED MORE THAN 40,000 GAZANS, WITH THOUSANDS OF WOMEN AND AT LEAST 16,000 CHILDREN AMONG THE DEAD, ACCORDING TO AUTHORITIES THERE.
MORE THAN 100 JOURNALISTS HAVE BEEN KILLED.
THE WORLD'S ONLY EYES AND EARS SINCE THE FOREIGN PRESS IS BANNED.
YOUMNA ELSAYED, AN AL JAZEERA CORRESPONDENT, CAME ON THIS SHOW LAST YEAR FROM GAZA, TO TELL US THE REALITY OF TRYING TO WORK THERE.
>> I CONSIDER IT THAT MY STORY IS NOT IMPORTANT.
THE IMPORTANT THING THAT I DO IS TO REPORT ABOUT OTHERS, BECAUSE THIS IS -- THIS IS MY DUTY, THIS IS MY TRAIT IN LIFE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, PEOPLE DON'T REALLY KNOW THAT I'M LIVING ALL THE SAME STRUGGLES, THE SAME CHALLENGES, THE SAME PAIN, THE SAME WORRY, THE SAME FEAR.
>> NOW, SINCE THAT INTERVIEW WITH MICHEL, YOUMNA HAS FLED GAZA WITH HER FAMILY.
TEN MONTHS ON, SHE JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN NOW TO DISCUSS HOW HARD IT WAS TO LEAVE, AND THE STORIES SHE DIDN'T THEN HAVE THE STRENGTH TO TELL.
>> CHRISTIANE, THANK YOU.
YOUMNA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.
LAST TIME YOU WERE ON THE PROGRAM WAS ABOUT TEN MONTHS AGO, YOU WERE IN GAZA, YOU WERE BASICALLY IN A LIVE TRUCK, AND THAT'S WHERE WE WERE ABLE TO CATCH UP WITH YOU.
NOW, YOU HAVE LEFT THE AREA, YOU ARE LIVING IN EGYPT.
WHY DID YOU LEAVE?
AND WHAT IS LIFE LIKE NOW?
>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME ON YOUR SHOW, HARI.
IT WAS ONE OF THE MOST DIFFICULT DECISIONS I'VE MADE, TO LEAVE GAZA.
AND I THINK THAT WHEN I TOOK THIS DECISION, IT WAS THE ONLY CHOICE THAT I HAD IN ORDER TO SAVE THE LIVES OF MY CHILDREN.
I WAS FORCED TO LEAVE, BECAUSE I WAS LEFT WITH NO OTHER CHOICE TO PROTECT THEIR LIVES.
I WAS THREATENED, MORE THAN ONCE, I WAS DISPLACED OVER SIX TIMES, AND LIFE WAS GETTING INCREDIBLY MORE AND MORE CHALLENGING, EVERY SINGLE DAY.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE FIELD, IT'S NOT ABOUT MY WORK AS A JOURNALIST, ONLY, BUT IT WAS MY MOST CONCERN, MY GREATEST FEARS, WERE ALWAYS THAT MY CHILDREN AT HOME ARE NOT SAFE, AND I COULD LOSE THEM IN ANY AIR STRIKE.
LIFE AFTER COMING OUT OF GAZA HASN'T BEEN EASY AT ALL.
I HAVE BEEN STRUGGLING WITH THE SURVIVOR GUILT THAT WAS EATING ME SINCE I LEFT AT THE END OF DECEMBER.
AND IT HAS IMPACTED ME A LOT, PHYSICALLY AND EMOTIONALLY, MENTALLY.
AND I CAN'T -- THE ONLY WAY THAT I CAN ACTUALLY OVERCOME THAT SURVIVAL GUILT THAT WAS COMPLETELY TAKING CONTROL OF ME IN MY LIFE WAS THAT I GO AROUND THE WORLD AND SPEAK ABOUT GAZA.
BECAUSE I FELT THAT THE WORLD WASN'T LISTENING ENOUGH TO WHAT WE HAD TO SAY AND SHOW THEM FROM INSIDE GAZA.
AND I THOUGHT THAT THIS IS HOW I CAN STILL CONTRIBUTE TO GAZA, WITHOUT FEELING THAT I HAVE ABANDONED IT AND LEFT.
>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THERE IS STILL THIS GAP IN THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO HEAR ABOUT OR UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA?
>> BECAUSE OF THE UNDERREPORTING BY WESTERN AND INTERNATIONAL JOURNALISTS TOWARDS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN GAZA.
I BELIEVE THAT VERY HONESTLY.
AND THIS REALITY MIGHT SEEM VERY HARSH ON SOME PEOPLE, OR THEY MIGHT BE REALLY UPSET WITH ME SAYING THAT, BUT IT'S THE TRUTH.
BECAUSE FOR A NATION ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD TO START SEARCHING ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING IN GAZA, THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN IF THEY DID NOT HEAR ABOUT IT DAY AND NIGHT FROM THEIR OWN JOURNALISTS ON THE GROUND.
IF THEY DID NOT REPORT ABOUT SUCH A BRUTAL WAR THAT WE HAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR NOW.
REPORTING IT WITH ITS BRUTALITY, WITH HOW VICIOUS IT IS, WITH ALL THE CR CRIMES THAT ARE BEING COMMITTED AGAINST THE PALESTINIANS IN GAZA.
PEOPLE ARE HEARING ABOUT IT NOW BECAUSE THEY ARE STARTED FOLLOWING OTHER PALESTINIAN JOURNALISTS FROM GAZA, AND WATCHING SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, WHERE THE RESIDENTS THEMSELVES ARE DOCUMENTING THESE WAR CRIMES THAT THEY ARE SUBJECTED TO.
BUT IT HAS TAKEN THEM A VERY LONG TIME.
>> YOU HAVE IN YOUR REPORTING TALKED QUITE A BIT ABOUT JUST WHAT IT'S LIKE, NOT JUST BEING A REPORTER, BUT ALSO BEING A MOM.
AND ONE OF THE STORIES, IF YOU DON'T MIND ME ASKING, IS, THERE'S A CHILD WITH A BLUE BACKPACK OUTSIDE A HOSPITAL AFTER THE ATTACK IN KHAN YUNIS.
CAN YOU TELL THE AUDIENCE ABOUT THIS?
>> YES, AND UNFORTUNATELY, THIS IS ONE OF THE STORIES THAT I WASN'T BRAVE ENOUGH TO DOCUMENT, BECAUSE I WASN'T ABLE TO BE A JOURNALIST AT THAT TIME, BECAUSE THE ATROCIOUSNESS OF THE SCENE THAT I SAW AS A HUMAN BEING AND I WAS AT NASSAR HOSPITAL MEDICAL HOSPITAL, AND A STRIKE ON A RESIDENTIAL, OR, A NUMBER OF RESIDENTIAL HOMES HAPPENED.
WE RAN TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE HOSPITAL, EVERYONE, ALL THE JOURNALISTS, AS WE WATCHED THE AMBULANCES RUSH INTO THE ENTRANCE, AND DOCTORS AND PARAMEDICS COME OUT QUICKLY TO TAKE THE CASUALTIES INSIDE.
AND IN ONE OF THOSE AMBULANCES, A BOY, NOT MORE THAN 12 YEARS OLD, 11 TO 12 YEARS OLD, STEPS OUT OF THAT AMBULANCE CARRYING A BLUE BACKPACK ON HIS CHEST HERE.
HE SEEMS LIKE HE'S BEEN PULLED OUT OF THE RUBBLE WITH ALL THE BRUISES AND DUST ON HIS FACE AND HAIR, BUT THAT BLUE BACKPACK ON HIS CHEST WAS VERY STRANGE TO ME, AND HE COMES TO ME, STEPS OUT FROM THAT AMBULANCE, VERY QUIETLY, AND HE ASKS ME, DO YOU KNOW WHAT'S IN MY BACKPACK?
AND BEFORE I COULD ANSWER, I SEE BLOOD UNDER THE BACKPACK, JUST LIKE THAT, STAINS OF BLOOD.
AND I JUST KNOW -- I KNOW INSIDE WHAT I'M EXPECTING TO SEE.
I KNOW WHAT HE'S TRYING TO TELL ME.
I KNOW WHAT HE'S CARRYING, BUT MAYBE I DIDN'T EXPECT IT TO BE THAT -- THAT BAD, THAT HE WOULD TELL ME THAT IT'S HIS LITTLE BROTHER, AHMED, AND HE'S 5 YEARS OLD.
AND I DIDN'T HAVE THE COURAGE TO FILM THAT, TO DOCUMENT THAT, BECAUSE I FELT THAT, THIS IS A SITUATION THAT, REGARDLESS OF BEING A REPORTER, REGARDLESS OF BEING A WAR REPORTER, OF SEEING INJURIES AND KILLED PEOPLE AND SEEING PEOPLE STUCK UNDER THE RUBBLE WHILE THEY TRY TO BRING THEM OUT, THERE ARE SITUATIONS THAT YOU CAN'T -- YOUR HEART CAN'T TAKE AS A HUMAN BEING.
AND THIS WAS ONE OF THE SITUATIONS.
AND I FELT FOR QUITE SOME TIME GUILTY THAT I WAS NOT BRAVE ENOUGH TO DOCUMENT IT, NOT FOR THE FACT OF DOCUMENTING IT, BECAUSE I WANTED TO BE THE STRONGEST STORY OR ANYTHING, AND I LET HIM DOWN.
BECAUSE I DID NOT REACT QUICKLY AND DOCUMENT THAT.
I BLAMED MYSELF FOR DAYS.
AND THIS HAS BEEN TEN MONTHS AGO, AND I CAN'T GET OVER IT.
AND I WILL NEVER GET OVER IT.
THE DAY I SAW ON THE TV SCREEN A FATHER CARRYING TWO PLASTIC BAGS WITH HIS BOY AND GIRL IN BOTH HIS HANDS, HE'S SCREAMING AND SAYING, "THESE ARE MY CHILDREN, LOOK AT MY CHILDREN."
AND THEY ARE PIECES.
I THOUGHT TO MYSELF, THERE WAS A MORE COURAGEOUS JOURNALIST THAN ME THAT WAS ABLE TO CAPTURE THAT.
AND NOW THIS MUST END.
THIS GENOCIDE.
NOBODY CAN BEAR THAT.
NO LEADER, NO POLITICIAN.
NO ONE IN THE WORLD CAN BEAR THIS THEME OF CHILDREN CUT INTO PIECES, BLOWN UP INTO PIECES, LIKE THAT.
BUT NOTHING CHANGED, NOTHING HAPPENED.
IT DID NOT STOP.
THAT DAY, WHEN NOTHING HAPPENED, WHEN I SAW THAT ON TV, I STOPPED BLAMING MYSELF FOR NOT BEING COURAGEOUS ENOUGH TO DOCUMENT IT.
I ACTUALLY THANKED MYSELF THAT I STILL HAD SOME HUMANITY IN ME THAT I WASN'T ABLE TO DOCUMENT SUCH A VICIOUS CRIME.
>> LAST MONTH, THE OFFICES IN THE WEST BANK WERE RAIDED BY ISRAELI FORCES, AND, YOU KNOW, THE -- THE ISRAELI REASONING WAS THAT -- THAT THE NEWSROOM WAS, QUOTE, BEING USED TO INCITE TERROR, TO SUPPORT TERRORIST ACTIVITIES, AND THAT THE CHANNEL'S BROADCASTS ENDANGER SECURITY AND PUBLIC ORDER.
WHAT'S YOUR RESPONSE TO THAT?
AND THE COLLEAGUES THAT YOU HAD WORKING THERE?
>> FIRST OF ALL, ISRAEL HAS ALWAYS, FOR YEARS, IT'S NOT JUST NOW, IT'S NOT NEW, IT HAS FOR YEARS ACCUSED AL JAZEERA WITH THESE ACCUSATIONS, IT HAS FOR YEARS ACCUSED AL JAZEERA TO BE PROPAGANDA FOR HAMAS AND ALL THE TERMS AND DEFINITIONS IT HAS USED TOWARDS AL JAZEERA, BUT IN REAL LIFE, IT HAS NEVER PRESENTED ONE SOLID EVIDENCE FOR ANY OF THESE AACCUSATIONS.
IN 2021, THE ISRAELI ARMY LEVELED AL JAZEERA BUREAU.
SAYING ALSO OTHER ALLEGATIONS THAT THE BUILDING WAS USED FOR HAMAS ACTIVITIES AND SO ON, WITHOUT ONE SOLID PROOF OR EVIDENCE PRESENTED.
WE ARE USED TO THESE ALLEGATIONS AND ACCUSATIONS BY THE ISRAELI ARMY.
THE ONLY PROBLEM WITH THE ISRAELI ARMY, REALLY, IS THAT AL JAZEERA IS COMPLETELY PRESENTING THE FULL SPECTRUM OF THE STORY.
WHAT AL JAZEERA IS REPORTING ON WHAT IS HAPPENING ON THE ISRAELI SIDE, WHEN ITS REPORTERS ARE REPORTING ABOUT FAMILIES OF ISRAELI CAPTIVES IN ISRAEL, OR ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN ATTACKS IN ISRAELI TOWNS, OR THE AFTERMATH OF THESE ATTACKS, OR HOW IT'S IMPACTING THE ISRAELI CIVILIANS, THEN THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH AL JAZEERA, AND WHAT IT IS DOING, IT IS DOING A GOOD JOB, BUT WHEN IT'S SHOWING THE SAME FACTS AND REALITY THAT ARE HAPPENING TO THE PALESTINIAN POPULATION, WHETHER IN THE GAZA STRIP OR IN THE WEST BANK, THE CONFISCATION OF LAND, THE TERROR OF THE ISRAELI SETTLERS, THE ONGOING VIOLATIONS AND AGGRESSIONS AGAINST THE PALESTINIAN RESIDENTS, THEN IT'S INCITING TERROR.
>> THE IDF REPEATEDLY SAYS THEY DO NOT DLIBRY TARGET JOURNALISTS, IT ALSO TOLD AGENCY SHORTLY AFTER THE WAR STARTED THAT IT COULD NOT GUARANTEE THE SAFETY OF JOURNALISTS.
AT THE SAME TIME, WE'VE GOT COMMITTEE TO PROTECT JOURNAL JOURNALISTS SAY AT LEAST 127 JOURNALISTS AND MEDIA WORKERS HAVE BEEN KILLED OVER THE PAST YEAR, INCLUDING SOME COLLEAGUES OF YOURS.
>> FIRST OF ALL, WHEN THE ISRAELI ARMY SAYS THAT IT'S NOT DELIBERATELY TARGETING JOURNALISTS, WE HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME.
WHILE IN EVERY SINGLE ESCALATION, MILITARY ESCALATION OR WAR, THE FIRST THING THAT IS TARGETED ARE THE MEDIA OFFICES.
THE JOURNALISM MEDIA OFFICES IN THE GAZA STRIP.
SO, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT IS NOT A DELIBERATE TARGETING TO THE MEDIA BODIES IN GAZA.
SECOND OF ALL, THERE ARE DOZENS OF PALESTINIAN JOURNALISTS THAT WERE KILLED IN DIRECT ATTACK WHILE THEY ARE LABELED WITH THEIR PRESS GEAR, AND NOT JUST IN THIS -- I'M NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT THIS WAR, I'M TALKING ABOUT NUMEROUS OTHER WARS AND ESCALATIONS.
AND IT WAS NOT JUST ABOUT TARGETING AN ENTIRE AREA AND IT IS COLLATERAL DAMAGE.
OUR CAMERAMAN, AL JAZEERA ARABIC CAMERAMAN, HE WAS HIT, HE WAS HIT IN AN ISRAELI AIR STRIKE WHILE THEY WERE COVERING AN ISRAELI RAID ON A SCHOOL.
AND HE WAS LEFT TO BLEED FOR SIX HOURS.
WHILE WE ARE REQUESTING AN AMBULANCE TO ENTER AND GET HIM TO SAVE HIS LIFE, AND THE ISRAELI ARMY CONTINUED TO SAY NO.
AND THEY KNOW THAT HE IS INSIDE THERE, HE IS INJURED, AND HE IS BLEEDING.
THEY LET HIM BLEED TO DEATH.
AND YOU TELL ME THAT IS NOT A DELIBERATE TARGETING?
>> WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, IT'S BEING BROADCAST A YEAR AFTER THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACKS, WHEN HAMAS LAUNCHED THE ATTACK THAT KILLED 1,200 PEOPLE IN ISRAEL, AND SPARKED THIS CURRENT WAR, AND I WONDER WHAT YOU NOW, THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE LIVED THROUGH FOR THIS PAST YEAR, WHAT DO YOU REFLECT UPON DURING THIS ANNIVERSARY?
>> WELL, OUR LIFE BEFORE THE SEVENTH OF OCTOBER AS PALESTINIANS LIVING IN GAZA WASN'T A NORMAL LIFE ANYWAY.
IT WASN'T EASY.
IT WASN'T SIMPLE.
WE WERE DEPRIVES OF THE BASICS, LEGITIMATE RIGHTS OF ANY HUMAN BEING IN THE WORLD.
WE HAD NO OPPORTUNITY TO TRAVEL, TO PLAN A SIMPLE VACATION LIKE ANY FAMILY IN THE WORLD, EVEN IF WE HAD THE FINANCIAL MEANS.
WE COULDN'T -- IF SOMEONE GOT SICK, WE WEREN'T SURE IF WE WOULD BE ABLE TO TAKE THIS PERSON TO TREATMENT, LIFE-SAVING TREATMENT SOMEWHERE ELSE, OR HE WOULD DIE IN GAZA.
THE OCTOBER 7th ATTACK HAPPENED BECAUSE OF ALL THIS PRESSURE THAT THE PALESTINIANS HAVE BEEN LIVING WITHIN.
>> YOU HAVE PLACED THE RESPONSIBILITY ON WESTERN NATIONS ENABLING THIS TO CONTINUE, AND THERE'S A RECENT QUOTE FROM PRESIDENT BIDEN, WHO SAID THAT ISRAEL HAS THE RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST HAMAS, AND ISRAELI LEADERS WANT THE HOSTAGES BEING HELD, NOW FOR MORE THAN A YEAR, RETURNED.
WHAT DO YOU SAY TO THAT?
>> FIRST OF ALL, I PLACE THE RESPONSIBILITY AND ACCOUNTABILITY ON WESTERN GOVERNMENTS, AND NOT NATIONS, NOT THE PEOPLE, BUT THE GOVERNMENTS.
AND LAWMAKERS.
AND SECOND OF ALL, WHILE I THINK THIS JUST SHOWS, AGAIN, THE COMPLETE DOUBLE STANDARDS, BECAUSE WHAT ABOUT ALL THE PALESTINIAN HOSTAGES THAT HAVE BEEN TAKEN IN ISRAEL?
ISRAEL THE ONLY PLACE IN THE WORLD THAT HAS MILITARY COURTS FOR CHILDREN, WHERE WAS PRESIDENT BIDEN WHEN THAT WAS HAPPENING?
WHAT DID HE SAY ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN PRISONERS?
>> RIGHT NOW, YOU ARE LIVING IN EGYPT, AND ARE YOU ABLE TO WORK THERE?
HOW -- WHAT IS LIFE THERE LIKE FOR YOU NOW?
>> I LEFT GAZA, EVACUATED TO EGYPT, LIKE ALL OTHER PALESTINIANS.
I AM PALESTINIAN EGYPTIAN ALREADY, SO IT IS LIKELY MORE EASIER FOR ME AS SOMEONE, AN EGYPTIAN PASSPORT, BUT THE REALITY OF PALESTINIANS IN EGYPT IS COMPLETELY DIFFICULT, BECAUSE THEY ARE LIVING IN EXILE, BECAUSE THE PALESTINIANS IN EGYPT, HOW THEY GOT TO EGYPT, THEY HAD TO PAY TO SAVE THEIR LIVES, TO EVACUATE TO EGYPT.
NOW, THEY LIVE ON THEIR OWN EXPENSES, THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO WORK, THEIR CHILDREN ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO TO SCHOOL.
AND THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO TRAVEL.
BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO RRESIDENCY.
IN EGYPT.
SO, ALL OUR CHILDREN IN GAZA LOST AN ENTIRE EDUCATIONAL YEAR LAST YEAR, BECAUSE OF THE WAR.
AND THIS YEAR, THEY HAVE NO OPPORTUNITIES TO GO TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE IN EGYPT, THEY CAN'T GO TO SCHOOL, BECAUSE THEY HAVE NO RESIDENCY.
AND EVEN THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SENT -- THEY CAME OUT WITH WHATEVER WAS LEFT WITH THEM FROM THEIR FINANCIAL RESOURCES, NOW HAVE SPENT THEM.
AND HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS.
THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO.
BUT THEY COMPLETELY CONTINUE TO LIVE IN THIS UNKNOWN SITUATION.
>> AL JAZEERA CORRESPONDENT AND JOURNALIST YOUMNA ELSAYED, THANK YOU FOR JOININGS.
>> THANK YOU, HARI.
>>> AND FINALLY TONIGHT, LET'S LOOK AGAIN AT HOW SOME OF THE FAMILY AND FRIENDS OF THE ISRAELI HOSTAGES STILL HELD IN GAZA MARKED THIS DAY.
PEOPLE HELD A MOMENT OF SILENT AT THE SITE OF THE NOVA MUSIC FESTIVAL TO THE SOUNDS OF THE FINAL SONG THEY HAD HEARD THERE.
YOUNG PEOPLE FROM ALL OVER ISRAEL AND ALL OVER THE WORLD WHO HAD COME TO THE ENJOY THE MUSIC AND TO DANCE.
THIS DAY OF MEMORY ENDED WITH A VIGIL FOR THOSE HOSTAGES, MORE THAN 100, ALIVE AND DEAD, WHO REMAIN IN HAMAS CAPTIVITY.
>>> AND THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
THANKS FOR WATCHING, AND GOOD NIGHT FROM LONDON.
>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT.
JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
♪♪