President Trump’s Attempts to Overturn Election

ANNE APPLEBAUM, “THE ATLANTIC”: So, I think it’s become pretty clear, even in the last few days, that Trumpism isn’t what it was advertised as, isn’t what it has been analyzed as. It isn’t anything to do with economics. It isn’t to do with foreign policy. It isn’t to do with bringing the troops home. It isn’t to do with any of the issues that it’s been attached to. I mean, the essence of Trumpism, the deepest meaning of Trumpism is that it’s a rejection of reality,and it’s a projection of victory for Trump and for his followers, no matter whether that victory is real or not. And so what we’re seeing is the president claiming victory where he’s lost. We see his followers claiming victory, though they have lost. And we have seen also, more importantly, the Republican senators and the vice president and the secretary of state also following the same pattern. They aren’t contradicting Trump. They know he’s lost. They know he lost the election. But because they too are vying for the same mantle, they also hope someday to lead the same political movement, they too need to keep telling their followers that they have won, even though they have not. And that is actually the essence of the movement. And that’s the piece of it that will carry on. We are now seeing a battle between potential successors to Trump, who are all trying to create that same feeling of inevitable victory, we won despite the facts, we triumph over reality, no matter what happens.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: So, essentially, it goes to the heart of the democratic process. And it’s sort of a — for want of a better term, an anti-democratic movement. I want to play this selection of sound bites that a CNN reporter gathered from Trump supporters in Georgia just ahead of this election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Do you think that Trump will eventually accept that Biden is the next president?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. Biden is not.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Biden isn’t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump is the next president.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I’m going to the inauguration for Trump. I have booked it before the election, because I have faith he’s going to be there and he’s going to be doing — he’s going to be elected.

QUESTION: Will you accept Joe Biden as president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he will never be my president.

QUESTION: OK. But you know — you accept that he’s going to be inaugurated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don’t.

QUESTION: I mean, how could that change at this point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it could be civil war. You never know.

QUESTION: You don’t actually want a civil war, do you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don’t. But show us the voting machines. Show us the ballots. Show us that this was a fair election, or we will never accept another vote again ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Fintan O’Toole, because you have written about this trajectory here, what do you make when you hear those voters and those Trump supporters speaking in such stark, stark language?

FINTAN O’TOOLE, COLUMNIST, “IRISH TIMES”: Well, it’s shocking, but it’s not surprising, because what we have to bear in mind with all of this is that Trump’s antics of recent days are very much what he told his voters he was going to do. The one thing you can say in Trump’s favor is that he doesn’t hide what his agenda is.