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> HELLO, EVERYONE.
WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR & COMPANY.'
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
> WE KNOW THAT WE ARE STRONGER AS A NATION IF WE STAND WITH OTHER DEMOCRACIES AND STAND WITH OUR ALLIES.
IS AMERICA BACK OR IS IT AMERICA FIRST?
TAKING THE TEMPORARY AT THE U.N.
GENERAL ASSEMBLY WITH THE U.S.
AMBASSADOR, LINDA THOMAS GREENFIELD.
Translator: WE EMPHASIZE HERE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY'S CONTINUED SUPPORT OF AFGHANISTAN AT THIS CRITICAL STAGE.
URGING THE WORLD TO CONTINUE DIALOGUE WITH THE TALIBAN.
I SPEAK WITH QATAR AND ITS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER.
PLUS --
THE FACT THAT AMERICANS ARE LESS IN THE LINE OF FIRE DOES NOT REDUCE OUR RESPONSIBILITY.
FORMER U.S. MARINE IAN CAMERON SAID HE TALKS TO HORACE GREEN ABOUT WHAT IT WAS ALL FOR AND WHAT HAPPENS NOW.
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ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.
WORLD VIEWS THIS YEAR.
AFTER PRESIDENT BIDEN'S MAIDEN ADDRESS CONDEMNED, THE IRON HAND AND XI JINPING HIT BACK SAYING DEMOCRACY IS NOT THE HIGHEST VIRTUE.
Translator: ONE COUNTRY'S SUCCESS DOES NOT HAVE TO MEAN ANOTHER COUNTRY'S FAILURE.
THE WORLD IS BIG ENOUGH FOR PROGRESS OF ALL COUNTRIES.
WE NEED TO PURSUE DIALOGUE AND INCLUSIVENESS OVER CONFRONTATION AND EXCLUSION.
IRAN'S NEW HARD LINE LEADER BLASTED THE U.S. CRITICIZING WASHINGTON'S WITHDRAWAL FROM THE NUCLEAR DEAL SAYING THE POLICY OF MAXIMUM TYRANNY IS STILL ON.
TO ADD TO ALL OF THIS, BRAZIL'S HEALTH MINISTER HAS TESTED POSITIVE FOR COVID AFTER HE MINGLED WITH WORLD LEADERS, EVEN SHAKING HANDS WITH THE BRITISH PRIME MINISTER BORIS JOHNSON.
I'VE BEEN SPEAKING TO LINDA THOMAS GREENFIELD, AMERICA'S AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N., ABOUT PRESIDENT BIDEN'S PLEDGE TO SET THE GLOBAL STAGE FOR THE 21st CENTURY.
AMBASSADOR, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
DEHEIGHTED TO BE HERE.
SO IT'S YOUR FIRST UNGER AND IT IS THE FIRST ONE SINCE COVID.
YOU MENTIONED YOU WERE WORRIED IT MIGHT BECOME A SUPER SPREADER EVENT.
SURE ENOUGH, TRUE TO TYPE, THE PRESIDENT OF BRAZIL PUBLICLY ANNOUNCED HE REFUSES TO BE VACCINATED, THE HEALTH MINISTER SAYS HE HAS COVID AND THEN HE'S SHAKING HANDS WITH EVERYBODY.
HOW WORRIED ARE YOU?
WHAT KIND OF MESSAGE DOES THIS SEND FROM ONE OF LATIN AMERICA'S BIGGEST COUNTRIES ON THIS SERIOUS ISSUE?
IT IS INCUMBENT ON EVERY LEADER FROM EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD TO TAKE THIS PANDEMIC SERIOUSLY.
THE UNITED NATIONS HAS TAKEN SOME MITIGATION EFFORTS THAT WE KNOW WILL HELP IMPROVE THE SITUATION.
THEY'RE DOING INTENSIVE CLEANING AFTER EACH SPEAKER.
WE WORKED WITH THE CITY TO PUT A VAN RIGHT OUTSIDE U.N.
HEADQUARTERS TO DO TESTING AND PROVIDE VACCINES TO THOSE WHO WISH TO HAVE VACCINES AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO WORK WITH THE U.N. AND WITH THE CITY TO ENSURE THAT THIS DOES NOT BECOME A SUPER SPREADER EVENT.
WOULD YOU URGE YOUR PRESIDENT NOT TO SHAKE HANDS WITH BO BOLSINARO?
WELL, YOU WILL NOTICE IF YOU SEE PICTURES OF US AT THE UNITED NATIONS THAT WE'RE DOING ELBOW BUMPS, WE'RE DOING FIST BUMPS, WE'RE PUTTING OUR HANDS ON OUR HEART.
THERE'S VERY LITTLE SHAKING OF HANDS BUT IF WE DO SOMEHOW SHAKE HANDS, THERE IS HAND SANITIZER EVERYWHERE AND PEOPLE ARE BEING ENCOURAGED TO USE IT.
SO LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT THE OTHER SUBSTANCE.
PRESIDENT BIDEN SAYING WE'RE NOT GOING TO A NEW COLD WAR WITH CHINA.
WE WANT TO LEAVE.
WE WANT TO WORK WITH ALLIANCES.
PRESIDENT XI SAYING IN HIS TAPED ADDRESS, DON'T TALK TO US ABOUT DEMOCRACY.
DEMOCRACY IS NOT JUST THE PRESERVE OF ONE COUNTRY.
THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT HIMSELF SANCTIONED ONE OF THE BIGGEST VIOLATORS ON THE STAGE OF HUMAN RIGHTS TALKING ABOUT AMERICAN TYRANNY AND MENTIONING THE ANTIDEMOCRATIC FORCES THAT STORMED THE CAPITOL ON JANUARY 6th.
WHEN DO YOU SEE THE UNITED STATES BEING ABLE TO LEAD HERE?
ARE YOU CONCERNED THERE IS A GROWING DYSFUNCTION BETWEEN ALL OF THESE BIG POWER CENTERS?
YOU KNOW, THEIR VIEWS WERE PREDICTABLE.
IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT WE DIDN'T EXPECT, BUT OUR VIEW IS THAT THE VALUES OF DEMOCRACY STAND STRONG AND PRESIDENT BIDEN DISPLAYED THAT VERY, VERY AGGRESSIVELY AT THE UNITED NATIONS NOTING THAT WE'RE GOING TO LEAD WITH DIPLOMACY, WITH -- WITH OUR VALUES AND WE ARE GOING TO LEAD BY OUR EXAMPLES.
WE DON'T RUN AWAY FROM OUR SHORTCOMINGS.
WE ACKNOWLEDGE THOSE, BUT WE KNOW THAT WE ARE STRONGER AS A NATION IF WE STAND WITH OTHER DEMOCRACIES AND STAND WITH OUR ALLIES, AND THAT'S THE POSITION THAT WE TOOK AT THE UNITED NATIONS, IT'S THE POSITION THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN LAID OUT VERY, VERY STRONGLY IN HIS SPEECH AND I WILL TELL YOU THAT HIS SPEECH WAS WELL RECEIVED BY ALL OF THE COUNTRIES THAT WE'VE ENGAGED WITH.
HE GOT RESOUNDING APPLAUSE FOR THE SPEECH THAT HE GAVE AND OUR RETURN TO THE MULTI-LATERAL STAGE WAS MOST WELCOME.
I WONDER IF IT WAS WARMLY RECEIVED BY THE FRENCH?
I'M BEING A LITTLE WRY HERE.
YOU ARE OBVIOUSLY IN A GREAT BIG SPAT WITH ONE OF YOUR OLDEST AND LONGEST ALLIES OF FRANCE.
PRESIDENT BIDEN AND PRESIDENT MACRON ARE SPEAKING ON THIS DAY.
I WONDER WHETHER YOU THINK THAT THIS RELATIONSHIP CAN BE PUT-BACK ON TRACK AFTER THE SUBMARINE CRISIS AND WHAT IT WILL TAKE.
YOU KNOW, I WOULD DESCRIBE IT AS A BUMP IN THE ROAD.
OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH FRANCE IS STRONG.
THEY ARE OUR LONGEST ALLY.
THEY'RE OUR STRONGEST ALLY AND THEY ARE OUR FRIEND AND WE WORK CLOSELY WITH THEM AT THE UNITED NATIONS AND AROUND THE GLOBE.
AND THIS IS A BUMP IN THE ROAD THAT WILL BE SMOOTHED OUT, I HOPE WITH THE CONVERSATION THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN WILL BE HAVING WITH PRESIDENT MACRON, BUT, AGAIN, I THINK THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT OUR FRIENDSHIP WILL REMAIN A STRONG FRIENDSHIP MOVING FORWARD AND WE WILL FIND WAYS TO CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER ON COMMON INTERESTS AND WORK FOR THE COMMON GOOD.
YES, THE UNITED STATES DESCRIBED IT AS A BUMP IN THE ROAD.
IT WOULD.
IT IS A SUPER POWER AND IT WANTS TO GET PAST IT.
THE FRENCH SAY THEY'VE BEEN BETRAYED, THAT IT'S A CRISIS OF TRUST.
THE SUBSTANCE IS THAT THE UNITED STATES ALSO WAS CONSIDERED TO HAVE BETRAYED OR BLINDSIDED THEIR ALLIANCE OVER AFGHANISTAN.
ARE THOSE JUSTIFIABLE CONCERNS?
WE'RE IN A NEW DAY AND A NEW WORLD AND WE HAVE NEW CHALLENGES TO DEAL WITH, BOTH INTERNATIONALLY AND IN OUR BILATERAL RELATIONSHIPS AND WE'RE TAKING THESE INTO ACCOUNT, BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU WE ARE CONSULTING ON A REGULAR BASIS WITH OUR ALLIES.
WE'RE WORKING CLOSELY WITH OUR ALLIES AND WE'RE LOOKING FOR WAYS TO WORK WITH THOSE WHO WE'RE NOT ALWAYS ALIGNED WITH SO WE CAN FIND A PATH FORWARD TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THE CHALLENGES THAT WE'RE FACING.
WE'RE FACING A GLOBAL PANDEMIC.
CLIMATE CHANGE IS UPON US EVERY SINGLE DAY.
WE'RE LOOKING AT ATTACKS ON DEMOCRACY ACROSS THE WORLD, INCREASING COUPS, AUTHOR AUTHORITARIANISM.
THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.
WE KNOW IN ORDER TO ACCOMPLISH THINGS WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO AT THE UNITED NATION.
IT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO WITH NATO AND IT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IN OUR BILATERAL RELATIONSHIPS.
AGAIN, IT'S NOT ALWAYS A SMOOTH PATH AND WE TRY TO SMOOTH OUT THOSE BUMPS WHEN WE COME ACROSS THEM.
AND I THINK WE'VE SUCCEEDED IN DOING THAT.
PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS BEEN CLEAR THAT WE ARE GOING TO LEAD RELENTLESSLY WITH OUR DIPLOMACY AND WE'RE GOING TO LEAD WITH OUR VALUES AND WE'RE GOING TO LEAD WITH OUR HE CEXAMPLES.
LET'S TAKE COVID ABOUT LEADING RELENTLESSLY.
YES, THE PRESIDENT SAID WHAT HE SAID.
YES, THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF AMERICAN DOSES OF VACCINE GOING AROUND.
NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.
THIS IS WHAT THE HEAD, THE SECRETARY GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS SAID ABOUT THIS TERRIBLE INEQUITY THAT PERSISTS TO THIS DAY.
MAJORITY IN 1SOME COUNTRIES, EMPTY IN OTHERS.
90% OF AFRICANS STILL WAITING FOR THE FIRST DOSE.
THIS IS THE MORAL INDICTMENT OF OUR WORLD.
IT IS AN OBSCENITY.
WE PASS THE SCIENCE TEST BUT WE ARE GETTING AN F IN ETHICS.
THAT IS VERY, VERY STRONG FROM A U.N. SECRETARY GENERAL USING FAILING THE ETHICS TEST.
HOW DO YOU SUBSTANTIVELY EXPECT THE PRESIDENT'S COVID SUMMIT TODAY TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE DISTRIBUTION, THE RAMPING UP OF HAVING SEEN VACCINE DOSES?
THAT'S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE SUMMIT IS TO ENCOURAGE COUNTRIES, COMPANIES, NGO, THE WORLD TO COME TOGETHER TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THIS PANDEMIC.
THE U.S. HAS GIVEN 600 MILLION DOSES OF THE VACCINE.
WE'VE ALREADY DELIVERED OVER 160 MILLION.
WE GAVE TO COVAX $4 BILLION AND WE DO PLAN TO GIVE MORE, BUT THE PURPOSE OF THE SUMMIT IS TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO GIVE MORE.
IT IS ALSO TO LOOK AT HOW WE CAN STRATEGIZE TO ADDRESS THIS.
AND IT'S NOT JUST PRODUCING VACCINES IN OUR OWN COUNTRY AND DELIVERING THOSE VACCINES FREE OF CHARGE WITHOUT STREAMS TO OTHER COUNTRIES, IT'S ALSO FINDING WAYS TO PRODUCE THE VACCINE IN OTHER COUNTRIES.
AND WE HAVE BEEN LOOKING AT WORKING WITH THE AFRICAN CDC, FOR EXAMPLE IN AFRICA, AND WORKING WITH COUNTRIES IN AFRICA TO PRODUCE THE VACCINE.
IT'S A CHALLENGE.
I DON'T DISAGREE WITH THE SECRETARY GENERAL.
HE LAID OUT THAT CHALLENGE BEFORE US, AND OUR JOB IS TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS IT.
AND WE CAN'T SIT ON OUR HANDS.
SO WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THIS SUMMIT TODAY THAT THE PRESIDENT WILL BE HOSTING.
I WILL BE THERE WITH HIM CO-CHAIRING A PANEL, AND WE WILL BE BRINGING LEADERS FROM AROUND THE WORLD TO RECOMMIT AND TO MAKE EVEN STRONGER COMMITMENTS TO GETTING VACCINES IN THE ARMS OF EVERY SINGLE PERSON IN THE WORLD.
AMBASSADOR, DOING ALL OF THIS STUFF REQUIRES, AS YOU LAID OUT, GLOBAL COOPERATION AMONGST LEADERS.
YOU SAID THE U.N. AND THE SECURITY COUNCIL, THERE ARE THE U.S. AND ITS ALLIES AND CHINA AND RUSSIA THAT SEEMS TO VETO, ABSTAIN, SAY NO, OBSTRUCT JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING THE DEMOCRATIC FORCES OF THE WORLD WANT TO DO.
WHAT EXACTLY IS YOUR RELATIONSHIP WITH YOUR FELLOW CHINESE AMBASSADOR OR THE RUSSIANS WHEN YOU SIT IN THAT ROOM AND YOU KNOW THAT ON COVID, ON CLIMATE, ON ALL THE THINGS WE'VE JUST BEEN TALKING ABOUT YOU ACTUALLY NEED COOPERATION.
IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE?
IT IS ABSOLUTELY POSSIBLE AND WE'VE HAD SOME SUCCESSES.
IT'S NOT A PERFECT WORLD IN THE SECURITY COUNCIL, BUT WE DO KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER TO DELIVER TO THE PEOPLE.
WE WERE ABLE TO GET A RESOLUTION ON CONTINUING TO MAINTAIN A BORDER OPENING IN SYRIA AND THE ENTIRE SECURITY COUNCIL VOTED FOR IT.
IT WAS COMPLETE 15-0 VOTE.
WE WERE ABLE TO GET A RESOLUTION ON AFGHANISTAN, AND WHILE THE CHINESE AND THE RUSSIANS ABSTAINED, THEY DIDN'T VETO.
SO WE DO HAVE AREAS WHERE WE CAN WORK TOGETHER AND WE TRY TO REINFORCE THAT -- THOSE EFFORTS, BUT I'M NOT POLYANNISH HERE.
THERE ARE SOME CHALLENGES.
WE'RE CONTINUING TO MAKE SOME PROGRESS.
WHAT EXACTLY IS THE BIDEN DOCTRINE?
OUR DOCTRINE IS TO WORK WITH OUR ALLIES TO MAKE THE WORLD A BETTER PLACE FOR EVERYONE, AND WE WILL LEAD BY OUR EXAMPLE.
WE WILL LEAD WITH OUR VALUES.
VALUES RELATED TO HUMAN RIGHTS.
OUR VALUES RELATED TO DEMOCRACY.
AND WE WILL CONSULT WITH OUR ALLIES.
WE KNOW THAT WE CAN'T DO -- WE CAN'T DO IT ALONE.
WE HAVE TO WORK WITH OTHERS, AND I THINK THEY ALL SEE IT AND THEY ALL BELIEVE IN IT.
AND I THINK, AS YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH, IT'S BEEN A SUCCESS.
OKAY.
YOU'RE GRADING YOURSELF THERE, AMBASSADOR.
WE'LL SEE.
LET ME ASK YOU NOW.
YOU'VE GOT SOMETHING VERY REAL TO DECIDE, I GUESS, AT THE U.N.
THE TALIBAN HAS REQUESTED ACCREDITATION.
DO YOU EXPECT THEM TO BE ACCREDITED TO ADDRESS THIS SECTION OF THE U.N. GENERAL ASSEMBLY?
THIS IS A SECRETARIES THAT GETS MADE BY THE CREDENTIALING COMMITTEE.
WE'RE ON THAT COMMITTEE.
I DOUBT THAT A DECISION WILL BE MADE OVER THE COMING WEEKS.
THE CREDENTIALING COMMITTEE I THINK IS SCHEDULED TO MEET AGAIN IN NOVEMBER.
THAT'S WHEN I EXPECT THEY WILL TAKE THIS UP TO ADDRESS.
DO YOU THINK THESE SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED?
IN OTHER WORDS, SHOULD A U.N.
BODY OR THE U.N. RECOGNIZE THEM IN ORDER THAT YOU ALL CAN HELP AFGHANISTAN, THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN?
IN OTHER WORDS, PRAGMATIC OPERATIONAL RELATIONS?
OUR POSITION HAS BEEN CLEAR AND IT'S BEEN UNIFIED WITH THE REST OF THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.
WE WILL NOT RECOGNIZE THE TALIBAN UNTIL THEY EARN RECOGNITION.
THEY EARN RECOGNITION BY THEIR DEED AND BY THEIR ACTIONS NOT BY THEIR WORDS WHICH WE WILL BE WATCHING CLOSELY.
WHETHER THEY PROVIDE FREE PASSAGE FOR AFGHANS AND OTHERS TO LEAD THE COUNTRY, WHETHER THEY ALLOW FOR HUMANITARIAN ASSISTANCE TO BE BROUGHT IN AND DELIVERED DIRECTLY TO THE PEOPLE OF AFGHANISTAN, WHETHER THEY GIVE RIGHTS TO WOMEN TO WORK AND RIGHTS TO GROW AND GO TO SCHOOL.
FINALLY BECAUSE IT'S HAPPENING ON YOUR BORDER AT THIS TIME, YOU SEE THAT THERE HAS BEEN A CRISIS OF ABUSE AS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY HAS BEEN BY BORDER PATROL AGAINST HAITIAN MIGRANTS AND IT'S JUST ESCALATING.
THE WORLD LEADERS EITHER ASK YOU ABOUT IT OR PUT YOU ON THE DEFENSIVE ABOUT IT OR WONDER WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT AS A COUNTRY?
FIRST OFF, I WAS APPALLED TO SEE IT.
SECONDLY, I WAS EMBARRASSED TO SEE THAT HAPPEN.
YOU HEARD WHAT SECRETARY M MAYORKAS SAID, HE WAS INVESTIGATING AND WILL HOLD PEOPLE ACCOUNTABLE.
OUR COUNTRY IS NOT PERFECT, BUT WE WORK EVERY DAY TO PERFECT IT AND WE DON'T RUN AWAY FROM OUR SHORTCOMINGS.
SO WHILE WE WERE APPALLED BY THIS AND WE WERE EMBARRASSED BY IT, WE ARE GOING TO DEAL WITH IT AND LOOK FOR WAYS TO IMPROVE HOW WE ADDRESS THE SITUATION ON THE 3W0IRDER AND I THINK YOU WILL SEE THINGS CHANGE VERY, VERY QUICKLY AS IT RELATES TO WHAT WE SAW ON TELEVISION EARLIER THIS WEEK.
AMBASSADOR THOMAS GREENFIELD, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME AND I LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU AGAIN.
> ANOTHER IMPORTANT PLAYER AT THE GLOBAL TABLE IS QATAR.
ONE MIGHT CALL IT THE LITTLE PERSIAN GULF STATE THAT COULD BECAUSE SINCE EMERGING AS THE KEY PLAYER IN THE REGION, HOSTING NEGOTIATIONS BETWEEN THE TALIBAN AND THE UNITED STATES, QATAR SEEMS TO BE EVERYWHERE.
SINCE THE FALL OF AFGHANISTAN TO THE TALIBAN LAST MONTH, DOHAR HAS BECOME A DIPLOMATIC HUB F FOR MANY RELATIONS.
WE HAVE THE FOREIGN MINISTER HERE.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, SHEIK.
CAN I ASK YOU, YOU HEARD THE U.N. AMBASSADOR SAY QUITE FRANKLY THE TALIBAN WOULD NOT HAVE THE CREDENTIALS ADDRESSED UNTIL NOVEMBER.
DO YOU AGREE IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN GIVEN PERMISSION OR WHATEVER TO ADDRESS THE U.N. NOW AND SHOULD ACTUALLY WAIT?
THANK YOU, VERY MUCH, CHRISTIAN, FOR HOSTING ME TODAY.
LET ME START BY WISHING YOU WELL.
REGARDING THE COMMENTS ABOUT THE CREDENTIALS FOR TALIBAN, ACTUALLY, I THINK THAT QATAR POSITION HAS BEEN VERY CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING THAT WE SEE THAT ISOLATION IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD AND RECOGNITION IS NOT A PRIORITY RIGHT NOW.
WE BELIEVE THE PRIORITY FOR ALL OF US RIGHT NOW TO STAY ENGAGED WITH AFGHANISTAN, NOT TO ABANDON AFGHANISTAN IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO HELP THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.
WHAT TALIBAN HAS PUT OUT AS A STATEMENT I THINK NEED TO BE TRANSLATED INTO ACTIONS AND THEN TO OUR INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY ASTRAZENECA TAR IS WATCHING WHAT THE ACTIONS WILL BE.
SO FOR THE TIME BEING WE NEED TO SEE PROGRESS, INCLUSIVENESS OF THE GOVERNMENT WHICH WE HAVE SEEN SMALL, POSITIVE STEPS YESTERDAY BUT ALSO THERE ARE OTHER STEPS THAT'S REQUIRED TO BE DONE IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT AFGHANISTAN WILL BE A STABLE COUNTRY IN THE FUTURE.
BUT THE MAIN THING THAT WE NEED TO REMAIN FOCUSED ON IS THE HUMANITARIAN SITUATION OVER THERE AND THIS HUMANITARIAN SITUATION NEEDED TO BE INDEPENDENT FROM ANY PARTICULAR PROGRESS.
SO, FOREIGN MINISTER, WE'VE TALKED TO U.N. OFFICIALS AND THEY AGREE WITH YOU.
EVERYBODY THINKS THE AFGHAN PEOPLE NEED TO BE HELPED, PARTICULARLY WITH FOOD, REFUGE, SHELTER, ALL THE OTHER THINGS HUMANITARIAN WISE, BUT I WANT TO ASK YOU BECAUSE YOU'VE JUST RAISED THESE TWO ISSUES.
WHY DO YOU THINK THAT THEY SHOWED ANY INCLUSIVITY?
I THINK THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY WAS QUITE SHOCKED THAT THEY REVERTED TO TYPE WHEN THEY NAMED THEIR SO-CALLED INTERIM GOVERNMENT.
HARD LINERS ACROSS THE BOARD, NO WOMEN, NO ETHNIC MINORITIES, NOTHING THAT SHOWED NO OPPOSITION PARTIES, NOTHING THAT SHOWED THEY WOULD BE INCLUSIVE.
SUBSEQUENTLY, AS YOU KNOW, THEY PREVENTED GIRLS FROM GOING TO SCHOOL IN THE LATEST INTAKE, THEY'VE CLOSED DOWN THE WOMEN'S MINISTRY AND YOU KNOW THE WOMEN'S ISSUE IS VITAL TO THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY.
WHERE DO YOU SEE ANY INCLUSIVITY AT THIS OR WILLINGNESS TO PLAY INTERNATIONAL BALL BY THE TALIBAN RIGHT NOW?
WELL, ACTUALLY, WHAT I HAVE JUST REFERRED TO, I TOTALLY AGREE WITH ALL OF THESE POINTS THAT YOU HAVE RAISED.
WE WANT TO SEE AN INCLUSIVENESS AND SEE AN INCLUSIVE GOVERNMENT TO SUSTAIN THE PEACE AND STABILITY IN AFGHANISTAN.
WE KNOW EXCLUDING ANY PARTY OR MINORITY WANT TO BE SUSTAINABLE FOR PEACEFUL AFGHANISTAN FOR THE STABILITY OF AFGHANISTAN.
YESTERDAY THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE APPOINTMENT OF SOME FROM DIFFERENT ETHNICITIES FROM UZBEK AND ONE DEPUTY MINISTER AND SOME PROFESSIONALS AS I MENTIONED WAS JUST A SMALL, POSITIVE STEP TOWARDS INCLUSIVENESS.
WE SHOULD KEEP URGING THEM TO OPEN UP AND TO BE MORE INCLUSIVE.
TO INCLUDE WOMEN, OF COURSE, AND SENIOR MINISTERIAL POSITION OVER THERE.
ALSO ON THE ISSUE OF GIRLS GOING BACK TO SCHOOL, WE ALWAYS URGE THE TALIBAN TO PRESERVE THE RIGHTS OF THE AFGHAN PEOPLE INCLUDING WOMEN AND MEN.
AND THE DECISION THAT -- WHAT'S BEEN TAKEN LIKE A WEEK AGO ABOUT PREVENTING GIRLS FROM GOING BACK TO SCHOOL IS UNACCEPTABLE AND WE'VE BEEN CONVEYING THESE MESSAGES AND URGING THEM IN ORDER TO MAKE SURE THAT WHATEVER HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED IN AFGHANISTAN, NOT THE REVERSE.
I THINK THE ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS UNITED IN THAT FRONT.
I'M GOING TO JUST DIG DOWN IN THAT WITH YOU A LITTLE BIT.
FIRST I WANT TO SEE WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH WHAT THE U.N. HIGH COMMISSIONERS FOR REFUGEES TOLD ME ABOUT FINDING SOME SPACE TO WORK WITH THE CURRENT TALIBAN GOVERNMENT.
LET'S JUST SEE IF YOU CAN SEE.
THERE IS A POSSIBILITY.
I REMEMBER THE TALIBAN IN THE LATE '90s.
I MET THEM AND IT WAS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO EVEN RAISE THESE ISSUES.
NOW WE CAN.
WE HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT WE HAVE, BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS TO CONTINUE TO ENGAGE.
IT WILL BE SLOW PROGRESS IF WE'RE LUCKY.
THERE WILL BE PROGRESS, BUT IT WILL BE SLOW.
SO QATAR HAS BEEN HOSTING THE TALIBAN AND ITS OFFICE FOR YEARS NOW, NOT TO MENTION THE LATEST NEGOTIATIONS.
DO YOU AGREE THEY'RE DIFFERENT?
YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO OBSERVE THEM CLOSE UP.
WELL, I THINK -- I THINK WHAT WE CAN JUDGE IS WHETHER THE ACTION IS NOT THE STATEMENTS OR THE POSITION THAT'S BEING SAID VERBALLY.
AND WHAT WE HAVE EXPERIENCED IN THE PAST FEW YEARS DURING THE NEGOTIATION, THERE ARE, OF COURSE, CHANGES FOR THE TALIBAN WHO HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO THE WORLD AND INTERACTIVE WITH THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY BUT WE CAN'T EXPECT THE SAME INSIDE AFGHANISTAN FIGHTING FOR YEARS.
WE BELIEVE WHAT WE NEED TO DO AS AN INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY IS STAY ENGAGING ON AFGHANISTAN.
STAY TRANSLATING THESE STATEMENTS INTO POSITIVE ACTIONS FOR THE STABILITY OF AFGHANISTAN FOR THE FUTURE OF AFGHANISTAN.
THE U.N. AGENCIES, WE'VE BEEN FACILITATING FOR THEM THE VISITS, FACILITATING SOME OF THE HUMANITARIAN AIDS THAT HAVE BEEN TRANSFERRED TO AFGHANISTAN AND HAS BEEN MOVING IN A SMOOTH WAY.
IT HAS SOME CHALLENGES, YES, BUT IT WASN'T AS DIFFICULT AS IT WAS EXPECTED FROM THE BEGINNING.
SO WE HOPE THAT THESE SMALL, POSITIVE STEPS ARE SOMETHING GOOD THAT WE CAN BUILD ON.
FOREIGN MINISTER, YOU KNOW THAT EVEN BEFORE THERE WAS AL QAEDA OR OWE SOME NA BIN LADEN OR 9/11 THE WORLD WAS FOCUSED ON THE CRUELTY AND THE COMPLETE DISREGARD FOR WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN.
THIS HAS BEEN AN ISSUE FOR NEARLY 30 YEARS NOW, OR AT LEAST 20 YEARS IN AFGHANISTAN.
DOES QATAR CARE ENOUGH ABOUT WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO REALLY HOLD THE TALIBAN'S FEET TO THE FIRE?
AFGHANISTAN IS NOT SURROUNDED BY COUNTRIES THAT ARE KNOWN FOR THEIR RESPECT OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS.
DO YOU AT LEAST HAVE ENOUGH CARE ABOUT THIS TO REALLY MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE?
WELL, DEFINITELY IT'S VERY IMPORTANT FOR QATAR AND IT'S UNACCEPTABLE FOR US TO SEE ANY MISS TREATMENT FOR THE WOMEN IN AFGHANISTAN AND CANNOT ALSO BE TOLERATED TO SEE AFGHANISTAN TRANSFORMED TO A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.
WE'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THIS, URGING FOR THIS.
THE STATE OF QATAR IS A COUNTRY WITH AN ISLAMIC SYSTEM AND WE HAVE THE NUMBERS OF WOMEN PARTICIPATING IN THE GOVERNMENT WORK FORCE ARE MORE THAN THE MEN AND ALSO IN THE HIGHER EDUCATION WE HAVE MORE WOMEN THAN MEN.
AND WE ARE SHOWING THEM THAT THESE ARE EXAMPLES FOR A MUSLIM COUNTRY THAT HAS PROGRESS WITH THE ACTIVE PARTICIPATION OF WOMEN.
THERE IS NOTHING PREVENTING THEM FROM GOING TO SCHOOL OR LETTING THEM JUST STAYING AT HOME WHICH IS NOT ACCEPTABLE FOR US AT ALL IN THIS STATE.
CAN I JUST ASK YOU NOW ABOUT QATAR, IT SEEMS TO BE RELATIVELY NEW STRATEGIC POWER.
NOT ONLY DID YOU HOST THE NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION AND THE TALIBAN, BUT YOU DON'T NEED ME TO REMIND YOU THAT UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION THEY DID TRY TO BLOCKADE YOU.
THERE WAS A SENSE THAT AN ANTI-IRAN ALLIANCE BETWEEN SAUDI ARABIA, THE UAE, THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION NEEDED TO ISOLATE QATAR.
THAT'S OBVIOUSLY COME FULL CIRCLE AND YOU ARE ANYTHING BUT ISOLATED.
HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT THAT?
DO YOU FEEL LIKE YOU'VE BEEN VINDICATED?
WHAT DO YOU FEEL?
WELL, ACTUALLY, WHAT HAPPENED IN 2017 AND WHEN THE CRISIS STARTED, IT HAS AFFECTED THE PROGRESS OF THE GCC OVERALL AND IT HAS HAD GREATER IMPACT ON THE GREATER REGION, ON THE WIDER REGION.
WE HAVE SEEN THAT THE POLICIES OF ISOLATION OR CRISIS WITHOUT ENGAGEMENT AND DIALOGUE WANT OR NEED ANYWHERE.
WE HAVE TO BE POSITIVELY OR CONSTRUCTIVELY ENGAGING WITH OTHER PARTNERS AND WE ARE VERY HAPPY TO SEE THE PROGRESS OF THE SUMMIT AND THE RESTORATION IS COMING BACK.
AND WE HAVE SEEN A DESIRE AND WILLINGNESS FOR THE OTHER GCC MEMBERS TO REACH TOWARDS THE GCC BUT WILL BE OF COURSE ENGAGING POSITIVELY ON THAT FRONT.
IN IRAN WE SEE THAT IRAN IS PART OF OUR REGION.
IRAN IS OUR NEIGHBOR.
WE ARE SURROUNDED AS IT IS WITH SAUDI, WITH U.UAE AND OTHER GULF COUNTRIES, IRAN IS PART OF THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND WE ALWAYS ENCOURAGE ALL THE PARTIES AND ALL THE ENTIRE NEIGHBORHOOD TO ENGAGE TOGETHER AND TO HAVE -- TO STABILIZE OUR REGION BY ENGAGEMENT, BY DIALOGUE AND TRY TO AGREE AT LEAST ON SECURITY PRINCIPLES THAT WE ENSURE THAT THERE IS NO -- ANY ISSUES THAT CAN FACE US, CAN DETERIORATE?
OUR SECURITY SITUATION.
GULF COUNTRIES HAS BEEN FOR A LONG TIME THE STABILIZING FACTOR IN OUR REGION AND WE NEED TO REMAIN AS A STABILIZING FACTOR AND REMAIN STABILIZED.
THIS WILL ONLY HAPPEN BY DIALOGUE.
WELL, ARE YOU STILL DIVIDED ON THE MERITS OF REJOINING THE -- THE U.S. REJOINING THE NUCLEAR DEAL.
PRESIDENT BIDEN SAID HE WANTS TO DO IT IF IRAN DOES IT IN FULL COMPLIANCE.
YOU'VE JUST RETURNED FROM THERE.
DO YOU SEE ANY INDICATION THAT THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN?
WELL, WE ARE HOPING THAT THIS HAPPENING AS SOON AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE WE CANNOT AFFORD TO SEE A NUCLEAR OR AN ARMED RACE IN OUR REGION.
JCPOA IS VERY IMPORTANT AGREEMENT.
WE ARE ENCOURAGING IRAN TO RE-ENGAGE AND TO BE BACK IN AND ALSO ENCOURAGING THE OTHER GULF COUNTRIES TO ENGAGE WITH IRAN DIRECTLY TO ADDRESS THE OTHER CONCERNS.
OF COURSE, THE U.S. ROLE IS VERY IMPORTANT AND VERY ENGAGEMENT IN THE JCP ROLE AND ALSO THE U.S.
AND OTHERS INVOLVEMENT IN THE JCPOA IS PLAYING AN IMPORTANT ROLE IN SUPPORTING ANY ROLE IN THE GCC AND OTHERS.
WE HAD YESTERDAY FROM THE IRANIAN PRESIDENT THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE A NUCLEAR WEAPON.
THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE SHARE AND WE DON'T WANT TO SEE NUCLEAR PROGRAMS DEVELOPING IN OUR REGION.
SO WE HOPE THAT THESE STATEMENTS WILL BE FOLLOWED BY RE-ENGAGEMENT BY BOTH PARTIES.
CAN I SWITCH TO A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ISSUE BUT ONE THAT MUCH OF THE WORLD -- THE FOOTBALL SOCCER LOVING PART OF THE WORLD IS EAGER AND THAT IS THE WORLD CUP THAT WILL BE HELD IN QATAR IN ABOUT A YEAR FROM NOW.
BUT RIGHTS GROUPS, MIGRANTS GROUPS HAVE CONSISTENTLY RAISED THIS REAL PROBLEM THAT SO MANY MIGRANT WORKERS HAVE BEEN KILLED AND HAVE DIED IN UNSAFE SITUATIONS AND THEY COMPLAIN THAT YOUR GOVERNMENT IS NOT DOING WHAT IT PLEDGES TO DO, EITHER KEEP THESE WORKERS SAFE OR EVEN INVESTIGATE WHAT'S HAPPENING.
WHY NOT, FOREIGN MINISTER?
THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR A LONG TIME.
SURELY IT'S A LOT ON YOU-- BLOT YOUR COPY BOOK.
WELL, CHRISTIAN, I THINK THE PROGRESS BEING ACHIEVED BY QATAR IN THE FRONT OF LABOR RIGHTS AND HUMAN RIGHTS IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IS SOMETHING AHEAD OF THE ENTIRE REGION AND ALL THE REFORMS AND LAWS AND THE GOVERNMENT ENGAGEMENT AND THAT IS DIFFERENT TO INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS AND NGO HAS BEEN ENGAGING.
THE INO HAS ALL OF THE PROGRESS BEING ACHIEVED BY QATAR.
UNFORTUNATELY, THERE WAS A LOT OF MISINFORMATION AND MISREPORTING ABOUT THE FACTS AND THE NUMBERS WHEN LIFE FOR ANYONE WHO IS LIVING IN QATAR MATTERS A LOT FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND WE CANNOT -- WE CANNOT LEAVE IT LIKE THIS WITHOUT ANY ACCOUNTABILITY.
THE GOVERNMENT IS LAUNCHING ALWAYS IF THERE IS ANY CASE OF AN INVESTIGATION ABOUT IT AND THEY HELD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.
IN FACT, THE NUMBERS BEING PUBLISHED ABOUT THE DEATH ON THE WORLD CUP SITES ARE MISLEADING.
THE NUMBER OF DEATHS RELATING TO THE WORLD CUP IS MISLEADING.
IT'S MISLEADING INFORMATION.
SOMETIMES UNFORTUNATELY BEING USED FOR REPORTING IS MISLEADING THE PUBLIC OPINION ABOUT THE SITUATION OVER THERE.
SO WE HAVE BEEN VERY OPEN, INVITING EVERYONE TO COME TO DOHAR TO SEE THE PROGRESS THEMSELVES.
GOOD.
I WANTED TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE IMPROVEMENT THING.
I'M LITERALLY RUNNING OUT OF TIME.
I JUST WANT A YES OR NO ANSWER.
WOULD YOU, YOU KNOW, RE-OPEN OR GO DEEPER INTO AN INVESTIGATION IF THAT WAS CALLED FOR NOW?
DEFINITELY.
IF THERE IS ANYTHING REQUIRED ANY INVESTIGATION BY THE GOVERNMENT, THE GOVERNMENT TAKING FULL RESPONSIBILITY AND WE DO IT.
OKAY.
I APPRECIATE IT.
FOREIGN MINISTER, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
> NOW, OF COURSE, THE AFGHAN PEOPLE, AS WE SAID, CONTINUE TO SUFFER GREATLY.
MANY REFUGEES FACE A DESPERATE JOURNEY AS THEY FLEE THEIR HOMELAND.
CORRESPONDENT ARWA DAMON TALKS TO THEM AS THEY FLEE FROM TURKEY ACROSS THE AFGHAN BORDER.
Reporter: UP IN THE DARKNESS ON THE SIDE OF A STEEP HILL DOZENS OF MOSTLY AFGHAN REFUGEES ARE PICKING THEIR WAY THROUGH THE THORNY, ROCKY SLOPES.
THEY JUST CROSSED THE IRANIAN BORDER INTO EASTERN TURKEY.
THE HANDFUL OF FORCES WE ARE WITH ARE SCATTERED BELOW BEING GUIDED BY A THERMAL CAMERA.
THEY'RE TELLING THEM TO GO LEFT TO THE FRONT.
TURKEY DOESN'T WANT THE REFUGEES HERE AND THEIR FINAL DESTINATION, EUROPE, DOESN'T WANT THEM THERE.
THE SHOTS ARE BLANKS INTENDED TO SCARE.
FOR THE SMALL GROUP OF AFGHANS, IT'S OVER.
AND YET DESPITE THE GRUELING JOURNEY, THE SUDDEN EVAPORATION OF HIS DREAMS, ONE OF THE YOUNG MEN REALIZES I AM STRUGGLING WITH A SLIPPERY DESCENT AND INSISTS ON HELPING ME.
THANK YOU.
HE'S AN ATHLETIC STUDENT, A SPRINTER.
ANOTHER A PRO MIX MARTIAL ARTS FIGHTER.
THEY DON'T WANT TO APPEAR ON CAMERA.
THEY SAY IT WOULD BREAK THEIR PARENTS' HEARTS TO SEE THEM CAPTURED.
IT WAS DARK, SO DARK ZANA REMEMBERS.
IT WAS HER SON, AHMID, JUST 10 YEARS OLD WHO KEPT THEM GOING.
WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE GOING THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND YOU WERE PULLING YOUR DAD AND CARRYING THE BAG.
Translator: I WAS JUST THINKING THAT WE HAVE TO REACH A COUNTRY THAT WAS SAFE, HE RESPONDS.
Reporter: YOU'RE VERY BRAVE.
Translator: IT WAS FOR MY FUTURE HIS SISTER SAID.
I CAN'T STUDY IN AFGHANISTAN.
SHE DOES NOT WANT HER DAUGHTER TO BE ROBBED OF HER RIGHT TO LEARN, NOT THE WAY SHE WAS 20 PLUS YEARS AGO.
Reporter: SO YOU WENT TO A SECRET SCHOOL, ONE OF THE SECRET UNDERGROUND SCHOOLS?
Translator: IT WAS UNDER A HOUSE, SHE SAYS.
THE DOOR WOULD STAY SHUT SO NO ONE WOULD KNOW GIRLS WERE THERE.
SHE'S BROKEN IN MORE WAYS THAN SHE CAN PUT INTO WORDS.
THEY ALL ARE.
SHE DOESN'T KNOW HOW LONG THEY WILL BE HERE.
TURKEY HALTED DEPORTATIONS TO AFGHANISTAN AFTER KABUL FELL.
SOME OF THOSE WHO EVADE CAPTURE HIDE OUT IN SMALL RAVINE SO THEY CAN MOVE ONTO THE NEXT LEG.
SO YOU WERE IN THE MILITARY.
YEAH, IN AFGHANISTAN.
Reporter: HE WAS PART OF A LOCAL ANTI-TALIBAN UNIT.
HE SENT HIS WIFE AND CHILD INTO HIDING.
HE LEFT THEM BEHIND SO THEY CAN BE REUNITED IN A BETTER PLACE, ONE DAY, SOME DAY SUFFERING THROUGH THE HUMILIATION OF WAITING OUT HERE.
MANY WHOM WE SPOKE TO SAID IT TOOK NUMEROUS ATTEMPTS TO GET ACROSS THE BORDER TO TURKEY.
THEY HAVE BEEN BEEFING UP THEIR SECURITY WITH EUROPE'S SUPPORT.
TURKEY IS PUSHING REFUGEES BACK, AT TIMES FORCEFULLY VIOL VIOLENTLY.
THE DAY AFTER CROSSING THE BORDER, THE CAPTURED REFUGEES HAD ALREADY BEEN FORCED BACK INTO IRAN.
THEY SAY THEY ARE NOW HIDING FROM THIEVES BUT NOTHING WILL STOP THOSE WHO HAVE NOTHING LEFT BUT BROKEN PROMISES.
WE ARE VERY SAD.
WE DON'T HAVE FOOD.
WE DON'T HAVE A COUNTRY.
WE DON'T HAVE A HOME.
Reporter: A QUESTION THAT SHOULD ECHO THROUGHOUT AMERICA'S HALLS OF POWER WHOSE POLICIES FAILED THE AFGHAN PEOPLE AND LED TO THIS.
EVEN BEFORE THIS TERRIBLE CATASTROPHE THE ACCIDENTAL KILLING OF AFGHAN CITIZENS BY AMERICAN POWER DOGGED THE 20-YEAR MISSION THERE AND TURNED MANY PEOPLE AGAINST IT, AND NOW THE WHITE HOUSE BACKS AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE LATEST SUCH CALAMITY THAT KELD 10 CIVILIANS IN KABUL LAST MONTH INITIALLY CLAIMING THEY HAD ISIS K TERRORISTS IN THEIR SITE.
AS THEY OVERSAW AIRSTRIKES WHICH KILLED MORE THAN 300 TALIBAN FIGHTERS, NOW HE WONDERS DID IT EVEN HELP?
HERE HE IS TELLING HARRY ABOUT THE LESSONS HE THINKS MUST BE LEARNED FROM AMERICA'S FAILED WAR THERE.
Reporter: CHRISTIAN, THANKS.
IAN CAMERON, THANKS.
YOU WERE A MARINE INFANTRY OFFICER AND ONE OF YOUR ROLES WAS ASSISTING IN THE TARGETING OF TALIBAN ON THE GROUND IN AFGHANISTAN.
YOU DID THIS BASICALLY LIKE A 9 TO 5 JOB AS YOU WROTE IN YOUR RECENT OP ED.
TELL ME WHAT AN AVERAGE DAY IS LIKE FOR YOU WORKING IN THIS UNIT THAT TARGETS PEOPLE WITH FIGHTER PILOTS OR WITH FIGHTER PLANES OR WITH DRONES.
AN AVERAGE DAY FOR ME, IT'S ONE OF THE -- IN SOME RESPECTS, ONE OF THE MOST BORING NINE MONTHS OF MY LIFE AND IN SOME RESPECTS SOME OF THE MOST HIGH INTENSITY NINE MONTHS OF MY LIFE.
YOU KNOW, EVERY DAY WAKE UP.
YOU KNOW, A MILITARY BASE, AN AMERICAN MILITARY BASE IN A COMBAT ZONE IN THE 21st CENTURY CAN OFTEN BE A SOMEWHAT COMFORTABLE PLACE, WHICH IS ANOTHER STRANGE PART AND SOMETHING THAT I DIDN'T ANTICIPATE.
I HAD MY OWN ROOM.
WOKE UP.
I WENT AND ATE EGGS TO ORDER COOKED BY INDIAN CONTRACTORS IN THE MESS HALL.
WALKED ACROSS THE STREET TO THIS AIR CONDITIONED ROOM WHERE I BREWED A POT OF COFFEE AND SAT DOWN AND DID MY SHIFT FOR EIGHT HOURS IN WHICH I KILLED THEM EVERY SINGLE DAY.
FINISHED THAT SHIFT ON SCHEDULE EVERY DAY AT 4 P.M., TURNED IT OVER TO MY COUNTERPART.
I'D GO WORK OUT IN THE GYM, TAKE A HOT SHOWER, WI-FI CONNECTIVITY ALLOWED ME TO CALL MY GIRLFRIEND IN THE STATES.
I'D READ A BOOK AND GO TO BED.
SO THE JUXTAPOSITION BETWEEN A COMFORTABLE, VERY REGULAR EXISTENCE ON AN AMERICAN MILITARY BASE IN THE 21st CENTURY AND THE VERY VIOLENCE OPERATION WE WERE CONDUCTING WITHIN THAT EIGHT-HOUR SHIFT IS DEFINITELY SOMETHING THAT I WANTED TO SHARE WITH FOLKS IN THIS ARTICLE THAT I WROTE AND SOMETHING THAT I THINK WE'LL CONTINUE TO SEE MOVING FORWARD IF WE CONTINUE WITH REMOTE TARGETING AS A WAY IN WHICH WE CARRY OUT OUR FOREIGN POLICY INITIATIVES.
DID THAT SEEM STRANGE TO YOU, THAT THIS WAS GOING TO WAR ON SCHEDULE?
IT DEFINITELY WAS A STRANGE EXPERIENCE AND ONE THAT WAS VERY DIFFERENT FROM THE ONE THAT I PREPARED FOR.
GROWING UP I ATTENDED THE NAVAL ACADEMY AS AN 18-YEAR-OLD.
EARLY AND LATE 2000s WATCHING THE IMAGES OF THE WAR, THAT'S WHAT I ANTICIPATED MY EXPERIENCE WOULD BE LIKE AS AN INFANTRY OFFICER IN A COMBAT ZONE.
TURNED OUT IT WAS VERY DIFFERENT.
I BELIEVE IT'S EMBLEMATIC OF MANY SERVICE MEMBERS EXPERIENCES IN AFGHANISTAN AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE SO IN FUTURE CONFLICTS MOVING FORWARD.
GIVE ME AN IDEA.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE NEVER SEEN WHAT YOU'VE SEEN INSIDE THE ROOM.
THE PERSPECTIVE OF A DRONE.
HOW -- WHAT'S THE LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT YOU CAN SEE ON THE GROUND FROM SOMETHING THAT'S SO FAR UP IN THE SKY?
IT REALLY DEPENDS ON THE PARTICULAR SYSTEM THAT WE'RE USING, BUT IT'S DETAILED ENOUGH THAT THERE'S DEFINITELY A CONTRAST BETWEEN -- THERE'S A VERY SYSTEMATIC WAY IN WHICH WE TRACK TARGETS IN THE COMBAT ZONE, BUT THE DRONE AND THE IMAGES COMING FROM THE DRONE OFTEN TAKES A PRETTY INTIMATE PORTRAIT OF THAT PERSON'S DAILY ACTIVITY AND AS YOU FOLLOW AROUND A TARGET GATHERING ADDITIONAL INTELLIGENCE, YOU'LL KIND OF BECOME A PART, SUCKED INTO HIS DAILY LIFE, HIS DAILY ROUTINE.
SO IT'S -- IT'S ENOUGH TO GET A SENSE OF -- A LITTLE BIT A SENSE OF THE DAILY LIFE OF THAT PERSON AND THAT TARGET THAT YOU INTEND TO KILL.
NOW YOU WRITE THAT YOU COULD EVEN SEE THE SEQUINS ON A BASEBALL CAP OR A CAP?
I MEAN AT THAT LEVEL FROM SO FAR UP?
IN THAT PARTICULAR STRIKE, YES.
AND THERE'S ENOUGH GRANULARITY TO BE -- IT'S IMPORTANT, ESPECIALLY IN AN ENVIRONMENT IN WHICH THE TALIBAN IN THIS CASE ARE BLENDING IN WITH THE LOCAL POPULATION.
TO BE VERY, VERY PRECISE AND VERY, VERY DISCERNING ON TRACKING AN INDIVIDUAL TARGET.
THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT CAMERAS INVOLVED AND MANY PEOPLE WATCHING THAT AND KEEPING TRACK AND CORRELATING THE INTELLIGENCE AVAILABLE TO US WITH THE PARTICULAR TARGET IS OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE AND SOMETHING THAT WE SPENT HOURS EVERY DAY DOING TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TARGETS THAT WE WERE -- AND THE PEOPLE THAT WE WERE KILLING MATCHED UP WITH THE CREDIBLE INTELLIGENCE THAT WE HAD.
DO YOU REMEMBER HOW MANY TARGETS YOU HAD ACQUIRED, HOW MANY PEOPLE IT WAS IN THE TIME THAT YOU WERE THERE?
305 TALIBAN KILLED DURING THE TIME -- DURING MY SHIFT AND THAT'S BASE WE KEPT VERY DETAILED ACCOUNTING OF WHAT WE THOUGHT HAPPENED TO CREATE THE BEST PICTURE THAT WE COULD OF THE EFFECTS THAT WE WERE HAVING IN THAT BATTLE SPACE.
WHAT THAT MEANT ON AN OPERATIONS BASIS THAT WE WERE CONDUCTING A STRIKE OR TWO EVERY DAY.
WHAT DOES THAT DO TO YOU AND THE GROUP OF PEOPLE YOU WERE WORKING WITH?
I KNOW YOU WERE NOT OPERATING THE DRONE, YOU WERE ASSISTING IN THIS WHOLE PROCESS, BUT IF YOU'RE WATCHING SOMEONE ALL DAY AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THEM CLOSE ENOUGH TO SEE THE SEQUINS OF THEIR HAT OR TO SEE WHAT THEY'RE DOING AND YOU ARE AUTHORIZING THEIR LIFE TO BE EXTENDING WISHED.
I MEAN, HOW DO YOU CLOCK OUT OF THAT AND GO BACK TO, YOU KNOW, EATING DINNER AT THE MESS HALL AND DO IT AGAIN THE NEXT DAY?
FOR ME PERSONALLY, I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCES OF HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER SERVICE MEMBERS WHO HAVE HAD SIMILAR EXPERIENCES, BUT FOR ME PERSONALLY THERE WAS DEFINITELY AN IN THE MOMENT AN ABILITY TO LOOK AT IT IN A VERY CLINICAL, ALMOST SURGICAL PERSPECTIVE AND CONDUCT MY ASSIGNED MISSION AND JOB TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY.
NEVERTHELESS, THE THOUGHT THAT A DRONE IN THE 21st CENTURY CAN HAVE EFFECTS ON THE GROUND, THOSE ARE REAL AND THOSE ARE SOMETHING THAT WE SEE EVERY DAY.
SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WAS ABLE TO COMPARTMENTALIZE WHEN I WAS IN THAT JOB.
DEFINITELY SOMETHING I DEALT WITH.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR OTHERS.
DO YOU CARRY THIS WITH YOU AFTER YOU LEAVE?
I MEAN, IS THIS SOMETHING YOU SPEAK TO A PSYCHOLOGIST OR THERAPIST ABOUT?
DO YOU HAVE ANY SEMBLANCE OF PTSD?
IT'S DEFINITELY SOMETHING I CARRY WITH ME.
I WANT TO BE CLEAR, I'M PROUD OF MY SERVICE AND I'M PROUD OF THE SERVICE THAT -- OF ALL OF THE MARINES THAT I'VE WORKED WITH, AND I THINK THAT WE CARRIED OUT OUR JOBS TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITIES.
I THINK THAT THE CONSEQUENCES OF THIS WAR IN AFGHANISTAN IS SOMETHING I CARRY WITH ME BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING ALL-AMERICANS NEED TO RECKON WITH AND IT'S NOT JUST THE SERVICE MEMBERS WHO WENT TO AFTER BEGANGHANISTAN BUT IT'S T WHO VOTED FOR THE ELECTED LEADERS WHO WANTED TO GO TO AFGHANISTAN AND CHOSE THE WAR.
THE LESSON WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS JUST BECAUSE WE'RE ABLE TO REMOVE OURSELVES FROM THE BATTLEFIELD VIA TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT DIMINISH OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENGAGE IN THE CONFLICTS AS A POLITICAL BODY FROM BOTH A MORAL AND POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE.
TELL US YOUR REACTION WHEN YOU FIRST LEARNED AND YOU WATCHED THE PENTAGON SAY THAT WE HAD KILLED AN ISLAMIC STATE EXTREMIST AND THEN IT TURNS OUT IT WAS A TRAGIC MISTAKE, IT KILLED TEN PEOPLE INCLUDING AN EMPLOYEE AT A HUMANITARIAN ORGANIZATION AND AS MANY AS 7 CHILDREN?
I THINK MY FIRST REACTION WAS RELIEF.
IF YOU REMEMBER JUST TWO DAYS BEFORE THERE WAS A HORRIFIC ATTACK AT THE KABUL AIRPORT RESULTING IN THE DEATHS OF 13 U.S. SERVICE MEMBERS.
DOZENS IN THE BACK OF YOUR CIVILIANS.
THERE WERE VERY MUCH REPORTS COMING IN AT THE AIRPORT.
WHEN I FIRST READ ABOUT THE STRIKE, THEY HAD HIT THEIR INTENDED TARGET, I WAS RELIEVED.
THEN WE LEARNED IN FACT IT WAS A TRAGIC FAILURE OF INTELLIGENCE AND THE WRONG TARGET WAS EXECUTED -- WAS PROSECUTED.
SO THAT WAS -- THAT -- I -- THAT EMOTIONAL ARC FROM TRIUMPHED AND RELEASED OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES.
THAT RESONATED WITH ME BECAUSE I HAD BEEN IN A VERY SIMILAR SEAT BEFORE.
YOU'VE BEEN IN THE ROOM WHERE IT HAPPENED, SO TO SPEAK.
SO MANY TIMES AND SO MANY DIFFERENT MISSIONS.
WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THERE IS KLATT ROOL DAMAGE.
WHAT ARE THE PEOPLE IN THE ROOM FEELING WHEN YOU FIND OUT THAT PERHAPS THERE WAS AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER OR A CHILD INVOLVED?
I THINK WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW IS THAT PRECISION TARGETING IS ANYTHING BUT PRECISE.
THERE'S INCREDIBLE TECHNOLOGY THAT ALLOWS THE UNITED STATES TO PU ORDER NANTZ IN VERY SPECIFIC PLACES.
IT'S THE INTELLIGENCE THAT IS NEVER PRECISE.
IT IS EXHAUSTIVE PROCEDURES THAT WE DON'T GO THROUGH TO MAKE SURE THAT THE TARGET -- THAT WE'RE INTENDING TO SHOOT IS THE TARGET.
I CAN'T SPEAK TO THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO BUT I CAN IMAGINE THE INTELLIGENCE REPORTS AND THE EVENTS OF THE PREVIOUS NAMES.
SUICIDE ATTACK AT THE AIRPORT.
NEVERTHELESS, THERE'S A PROCESS THAT FOLLOWED.
I HAVE CONFIDENCE THAT THAT PROCESS WILL FOLLOW IT IN THIS REGARD.
IF IT WASN'T, I'M SURE AN INVESTIGATION WILL TURN THIS UP AND I ENCOURAGE.
AS WE HAVE THROUGHOUT THIS CONFLICT, AS I'VE EXPERIENCED AS WELL, WHEN PRECISE TARGETING COMES TO BE PRECISE, WE TAKE A VERY HARD LOOK AT WHAT WENT WRONG, WHY, WHAT WE CAN DO TO PREVENT ANYTHING IN THE FUTURE.
I CAN HEAR SOMEONE IN THE AUDIENCE SAYING NOW THINK OF ALL OF THE U.S. SERVICE MEMBERS, MILITARY WIVES, THAT HAVE BEEN SAVED BECAUSE WE DIDN'T HAVE TO BE IN HARM'S WAY.
THAT IS SOMETHING THAT THIS TECHNOLOGY HAS ALLOWED US -- HAS BROUGHT TO CONFLICTS AND HAS ALLOWED UNITED STATES TO PROSECUTE ITS FOREIGN POLICY OBJECTIVES WITH LESS DIRECT U.S.
SERVICE MEMBERS.
THAT'S A GOOD THING.
BUT WHAT WE CAN'T ABDICATE IS THE MORAL RESPONSIBILITY OF THOSE ACTIONS.
JUST BECAUSE UNITED STATES SERVICE MEMBERS ARE NO LONGER OR ARE IN LESS DIRECT DANGER WHEN CONDUCTING THE LOCAL TARGETING, DOESN'T MEAN THE EFFECTS OF THAT LOCAL REMOTE TARGETING.
OUR SPANSBILITY TO -- FOR THOSE CONSEQUENCES HAS NOT DIMINISHED.
I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT SOMETHING YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, WHICH IS KIND OF THIS LEVEL OF DETACHMENT THAT REMOTE TARGETING ALLOWS US.
THE FACT IS THAT YOU PAID ATTENTION.
RIGHT AFTER 9/11 BUT THERE WAS A PRETTY BIG GAP IN THERE.
HOW MUCH OF THAT IS BECAUSE WE HAVE THIS TECHNOLOGY NOW AND THIS ISN'T A WAR THAT WAS -- YOU KNOW, WE WERE DRAFTED INTO SERVICE.
IT DIDN'T CUT ACROSS ALL SOCIOECONOMIC BACKGROUNDS EQUALLY, RIGHT?
WE ARE SEEING THAT THERE IS A TECHNOLOGY AND A POTENTIAL FOR US TO KEEP SOLDIERS OUT OF HARM'S WAY, PERHAPS HERE IN NEVADA AND BE DRONE PILOTS FOR SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING WAY OVER THERE.
YEAH.
I WAS 11 YEARS OLD ON 9/11.
GROWING UP I WATCHED THE CONFLICTS ON TELEVISION.
WHEN I ENDED UP DEPLOYING TO AFGHANISTAN IN 2018.
THE AFGHANISTAN WAR WAS STILL HAPPENING BUT WHEN I TOLD ONE OF MY FRIENDS WHO I HADN'T SEEN IN A LONG TIME THAT I WAS GOING TO BE DOING THAT FOR NINE MONTHS THEY SAID, OH, WE'RE STILL IN AFGHANISTAN?
NOW WHILE THAT FACT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN LOST ON A LOT OF AMERICANS, I HAVE THE OUTSTANDING CONFLICT WHICH WAS MINIMAL COMPARED TO PREVIOUS CONFLICTS.
WHEN WAS AFGHANISTAN A MAJOR COLLECTION POINT IN THE 20-YEAR CONFLICT.
I CAN'T REMEMBER THAT BEING A MAKE OR BREAK ISSUE FOR ANY CONGRESSIONAL COMMITTEE, ANY SENATE COMMITTEE.
I THINK THAT SPEAKS TO THE EFFECTS THAT THIS REMOTE TARGETING HAS HAD AND HOW WE THINK ABOUT THESE ENGAGEMENTS.
NONETHELESS, THE CONSEQUENCES ARE REAL FROM A MORAL PERSPECTIVE AND POLITICAL PERSPECTIVE.
THE FACT THAT AMERICANS ARE LESS IN THE LINE OF FIRE DOES NOT REDUCE OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENGAGE IN THE FIELD.
I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS TOO OVER ARCHING A QUESTION BUT DEPENDING ON WHY YOU ENLISTED, WAS IT WORTH IT?
IT WAS WORTH IT, MARTY.
I WOULD DO IT AGAIN.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE THOSE THAT I CARE ABOUT TO JOIN THE ARMY.
I'M GLAD THAT I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO SO.
WHAT I HOPE THAT WE LEARN FROM THIS CONFLICT IN AFGHANISTAN IS OUR NEED TO CONTINUALLY ENGAGE WITH THE CONFLICTS THAT WE CHOOSE TO SEND YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN TO FIGHT AND I THINK THAT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN POINTS IN THAT 20-YEAR VERY LONG CONFLICT THAT WE LOST SIGHT OF THAT.
THAT'S WHAT I HOPE THAT WE TAKE MOVING FORWARD.
I THOUGHT THERE WOULD BE CONSCIENTIOUS YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN TO SERVE THEIR COUNTRY.
IAN CAMERON, FORMER MARINE INFANTRY OFFICER.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU.
> INDEED, OF COURSE, THE LEADERS WILL LEARN TO NOT ALWAYS FIGHT THE LAST WAR BUT KNOW REALLY WHAT IS AHEAD OF THEM.
> FINALLY TONIGHT, A LITTLE '90s NOSTALGIA.
♪ ♪ ♪ THE U.S. HIP-HOP SUPER GROUP THE FUGEES HAVE ANNOUNCED A COMEBACK.
THE NAME FUGEES HAS SHORT FOR REFUGEES.
NOW ALONG WITH LAUREN HILL, THEY'RE RETURNING TO CELEBRATE THE 25th ANNIVERSARY OF THEIR RECORD 'THE SCORE.'
ONE OF THE BEST SELLING ALBUMS OF ALL TIME.
TODAY THEY'RE KICKING OFF A NEW TOUR AT THE GLOBAL CITIZEN LIVE EVENT IN NEW YORK DOING THEIR BIT TO HIGHLIGHT THE GLOBAL HUNGER CRISIS.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
WE'LL SEE YOU TOMORROW NIGHT.
LET'S LEAVE YOU WITH ONE OF THE FUGEES SONGS.
♪ KILLING ME SOFTLY WITH HIS SONG ♪ ♪ KILLING ME SOFTLY WITH HIS SONG ♪ ♪ TELLING MY WHOLE LIFE WITH HIS WORDS ♪ ♪ KILLING ME SOFTLY ♪ WITH HIS SONG
> AMANPOUR & COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE BY SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE ANDERSON FAMILY FUND.
THE STRAUSS FAMILY FOUNDATION.
JIM ATWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ.
KU AND PATRICIA YUEN.
COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
ADDITIONAL SUPPORT PROVIDED BY THESE FUNDERS AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.