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> HELLO, EVERYONE AND WELCOME TO 'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY'.
THE CLOCK IS TICKING AHEAD OF A DEADLINE TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN AND PAY ITS BILLS.
WE BREAK DOWN WHAT THIS MEANS AND HOW IT'S ALL PAYING OUT GLOBALLY WITH FORMER CONGRESSMANTIA LAILA AND FORMER ECONOMIST, BETSY STEVENSON.
THEN, PING'S NOT SO QUIET REVOLUTION.
HOW THE CHINESE LEADER IS RAPIDLY TURNING THE COUNTRY BACK TO ITS SOCIALIST ROOTS, JUST AS ONE OF ITS LARGEST COMPANIES IS ON THE BRINK OF COLLAPSE.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE THESE PEOPLE SUFFERING IMMENSELY FOR WEEKS ON END AND KNOW THERE WAS A WAY FOR THEM TO NOT SUFFER.
AS COVID SURGES ACROSS THE USA NATIONAL NURSE SAYS WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE IN HER CRITICAL CARE UNIT.
AND WHEN NATURE BREAKS THE LAW.
BUZZ AUTHOR TELLS ME ALL ABOUT DRUNK ELEPHANTS AND BEARS ON THE LOOSE.
'AMANPOUR AND COMPANY' IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY
> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.
SITTING IN FOR AMANPOUR.
PRESIDENT BIDEN'S AGENDA IS NOW IN DOUBT, AS THE PROGRESSIVE AND MODERATE WINGS OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY HAVE SO FAR FAILED TO SEE EYE TO EYE.
AT STAKE IS A PARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE BILL THAT WOULD IMPROVE TRANSIT AND THE ELECTRICAL GRID AND COVERING EVERYTHING FROM CLIME TOOT HEALTH CARE.
THEY'RE RISKING A CATASTROPHIC DEATH DEFAULT AND A GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN IS LOOMING.
FOR MORE ON ALL OF THIS, I'M JOINED BY DEMOCRATIC CONGRESSMAN AND BETSY STEVENSON.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, LADIES.
I'M SORRY THERE'S NOT A LOT OF NEWS FOR YOU TO COVER FOR US TODAY.
LET'S START WITH ONE OF THE CRISIS TRANSPIRING RIGHT NOW AND THAT IS THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS SET TO SHUTDOWN.
THEY'VE ALREADY SENT TRIGGER PROVISIONS TO PREPARE FOR A SHUTDOWN.
WE KNOW THAT CONGRESS HAS PASSED A C.R., RESOLUTION TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT OPEN THROUGH THE OWNED OF THE YEAR.
BUT THEY'VE ATTACHED THAT TO EETH ARPROVISION TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING, OR FREEZE IT.
REPUBLICANS WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT.
HOW WORRIRED YOU THAT WE'LL SEE ONE OR EITHER BOTH OF THESE CRISIS TAKE PLACE?
WELL, I AM QUITE WORRIED AND I AM BECAUSE OF THE POTENTIAL MAGNITUDE OF THE CRISIS, IF IT WERE TO HAPPEN.
THE REALLY BIG THREAT IS IT DEBT CEILING.
THIS IS REALLY ABOUT WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT CONTINUES TO PAY ITS BILLS.
WHEN YOU START TO THINK ABOUT PAYING BILLS, WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THE THINGS IT OWES US.
WE, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE, ARE THE BIGGEST LENDERS TO THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.
AND WHEN GOVERNMENT SAYS, ARTIFICIALLY, WE'RE NOT GOING TO KEEP HONORING OUR DEBT, THAT'S GOING TO CAUSE A CRISIS IN FINANCIAL MARKETS.
WE'VE HAD A CRISIS BEFORE AND THAT'S REALLY BAD.
SO, CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH EXACTLY WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF WE DON'T EITHER FREEZE OR RAISE THE DEBT CEILING.
UNFORTUNATELY, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH A FEW GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWNS IN THE PAST FEW YEARS AND DECADES.
AND THAT HAS BEEN CONSEQUENTIAL.
FOR EXAMPLE, MOODYSIES U.S. DEBT DEFAULT COULD WIPE OUT 6 MILLION JOB SAID, $16 TRILLIONS IN WEALTH.
EXPLAIN THE MAGNITUDE OF THE DAMAGE THAT WOULD CAUSE IN THE U.S.
AS YOU NOTED, WE'VE HAD SHUTDOWNS BEFORE, WHICH IS THE GOVERNMENT PAUSES FOR A LITTLE BIT OF TIME.
SOMETIMES SEVERAL WEEKS AND THEN PICKS BACK UP.
THE THING ABOUT DEFAULTING ON THE DEBT IS WE'RE GOING TO FOREVER CHANGE HOW PEOPLE VIEW THE U.S. GOVERNMENT'S WORD, IN TERMS OF PAYING ITS DEBT.
AND THAT IS WHY THE MAGNITUDE TO HOW BIG IT COULD BE ARE -- SOME ARE THEM ARE UNDERSTATED.
BECAUSE IF PEOPLE START TO SAY YOU KNOW, I THINK, IF I BUY A TREASURY BILL FROM THE GOVERNMENT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE GOING TO ACTUALLY PAY ME BACK.
THEY'RE GOING TO DEMAND HIGHER INTEREST PAYMENTS.
THE WHOLE PROBLEM COULD BECOME QUITE BIG.
I THINK WHAT WE SEE IS THIS ACTION THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, THE THREAT OF DEFAULTING ON THE DEBT ACTUALLY STARTS TO CAUSE PROBLEMS IN MARKETS ALREADY.
ACTUALLY GOING THROUGH WITH IT, I MEAN, WE'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE.
SO, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN, WHO WILL BE THE WINNERS AND LOSERS.
BUT WHAT WE DO KNOW IS IT WILL BE SO DISRUPTIVE THAT THERE WILL BE A LOT OF LOSERS AND PROBABLY SOME WINNERS.
SO, DONNA, THE DEMOCRATS WAY OF TACKLING THIS IS TO PUBLICLY SHAME REPUBLICANS, MITCH McCONNELL, IN PARTICULAR, BY CALLING HIM HYPOCRITICAL, THAT DEMOCRATS HAVE VOTED ALONG SIDE WITH REPUBLICANS TO RAISE THE DEBT CEILING.
I'M SURE HISTORY SPEAKS FOR ITSELF AND NANCY PELOSI SHOULD KNOW THAT THERE IS NO SHAMING FOR MITCH McCOM.
LOOK AT WHAT THEY DID UNDER PRESIDENT TRUMP AND HIS ADMINISTRATION.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, LET'S PLAY FOR OUR VIEWERS, THE BIT OF HYPOCRISY IN TERMS OF MITCH McCONNELL'S APPROACH TO THIS.
IT'S TIME WE GOT SERIOUS, ON A BIPARTISAN BASIS, TO WORK THIS OUT AND NOT HAVE THE KIND OF CHAOS THAT COMES WITH OUR INABILITY TO COME TOGETHER ON THESE IMPORTANT ISSUES.
MY ADVICE TO THE PRESIDENT, THE HOUSES AND THE SENATE DON'T PLAY RUSSIAN ROULETTE WITH OUR ECONOMY.
STEP UP AND RAISE THE DEBT CEILING TO COVER ALL THAT YOU'VE BEEN ENGAGED IN ALL YEAR LONG.
SO, DONNA, WE SHOULD NOTE THAT FIRST CLIP WAS FROM 2019, UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.
THE SECOND CLIP WAS JUST THIS WEEK.
IN ONE HE SAYS WE'RE ALL IN THIS COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER.
IN THE SECOND, HE PINS THIS ALL ON DEMOCRATS.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID NOW DEMOCRATS ARE IN CHARGE, THERE'S NO WAY, GIVEN WHAT BETSY DESCRIBED, COULD BE THE FALLOUT FROM DEFAULT.
THAT DEMOCRATS WILL ALLOW THAT TO HAPPEN.
WHAT CAN THEY DO?
ARE WE GOING TO SEE A SEPARATE RECONCILIATION BILL TO RAISE THE DEBT LIMIT?
LET'S SEPARATE THE TWO.
CLOSING DOWN THE GOVERNMENT FROM THE DEBT CEILING, BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HAVE ALREADY PASSED A TEMPORARY BUDGET UNTIL THE END OF THE YEAR TO KEEP GOVERNMENT OPEN.
AND THEY'VE SUSPENDED THE DEBT LIMIT.
ON THE HOUSE SIDE, NANCY PELOSI HAS DONE HER JOB.
WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THE SENATE SIDE.
TRRLS THEY SHOULD HAVE A CARDIOLOGIST ON STAFF BECAUSE THEY GO RIGHT DOWN TO THE END.
THE DEBT LIMIT ISSUE, I AGREE, IS VERY DANGEROUS.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE DELAY IN SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS, THE POSSIBLE DELAY IN VETERANS BENEFITS.
NOT ONLY THE CHAOS IN THE MARKETS.
FOR 60 YEARS, OVER 80 TIMES WE'VE EITHER EXTENDED THE DEBT LIMIT, SUSPENDED IT.
I THINK WE SHOULD ABOLISH IT PERSONALLY.
BUT I'LL LEAVE IT TO A DISTINGUISHED ECONOMIST, LIKE BETSY TO TALK ABOUT THAT.
BUT WE'VE DONE IT BEFORE AND BY THE WAY THE DEBT IS BIPARTISAN.
THE DEMOCRATS DEBT, THE REPUBLICANS DEBT.
ER FOR IT'S OUR PAST BILLS.
WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A DEBT LIMMET FOR THE FUTURE.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A DEBT LIM TOOT PAY THE BILLS WE CURRENTLY HAVE.
AND SPEAKER PELOSI NOTED THAT AND SAID ONLY 3% OF THE DEBT ACCRUED LAST YEAR HAD FALLEN UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.
THAT HAVING BEEN SAID, WHAT CAN BE DONE?
BECAUSE THIS WAITING IT OUT TO SEE WHO BLINKS FIRST IS PUTTING THE U.S. ECONOMY IN A POSITION IT'S NEVER BEEN BEFORE.
WELL, WE'VE BEEN IN THIS POSITION BEFORE BECAUSE, OVER THE YEARS, WE'VE GONE RIGHT UP TO THE EDGE.
BUT HERE'S THE CHOICE THE SENATE HAS.
THEY CAN DO IT IN RECONCILIATION.
WHAT McCONNELL IS CALLING FOR IS YOU PASS IT WITH YOUR VOTES.
WHILE YOU CAN AVOID THE 60-VOTE NECESSITY, IT TAKES TIME.
YOU CAN'T DO IT BY OCTOBER 1st, WHICH IS WHEN WE NEED TO DO IT BECAUSE YOU'LL HAVE A WHOLE BUNCH OF AMENDMENTS.
THE WHOLE PROCESS OF RECONCILIATION.
THEY CAN DO A NARROW RECONCILIATION BILL BUT THE PROCESS IN THE SENATE IS MORE COMPLICATED.
THAT'S WHY WE NEED REPUBLICAN VOTES TOO, GET THE 60 VOTES TO DO IT CLEANLY AND TO GET THIS OVER WITH.
THIS IS DANGEROUS.
THEY'RE PLAYING A DANGEROUS GAME.
SO, PROFESSOR STEVENSON, LET'S USE YOUR PROFESSOR CAP NOW.
AND TALK TO YOUR AUDIENCE AS YOU WOULD EXPLAIN THIS TO YOUR CLASS AND YOUR STUDENTS.
WHY IS IT THAT WE ARE DEALING WITH A DEBT CEILING AND A DEBT LIMIT?
THIS IS SELF INFLICTED CRISIS THAT WE IMPOSE ON OURSELF.
MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES DON'T HAVE THIS TYPE OF ISSUE.
AND I'M HEARING, WE HAVE INTERNATIONAL VIEWERS WONDERING WHY THIS IS EVEN HAPPENING.
DONNA BELIEVES IT SHOULD BE DONE AWAY WITH.
I AGREE WITH DONNA 100%. THERE'S NO REASON TO HAVE A DEBT CEILING.
WHAT WE NEED DO IS REAL HONEST DISCUSSION ON HOW MUCH WE SPEND AND THAT WILL DETERMINE HOW MUCH DEBT WE HAVE.
THE WAY TO DEAL WITH YOUR DEBT IS NOT RACK IT UP AND THEN FAIL TO PAY IT.
AND I THINK, AGAIN, A REMINDER THAT WE OWE THIS MONEY TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WANT THEIR MONEY BACK.
SO, WE CAN'T JUST STOP PAYING THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE GENEROUSLY LOANED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MONEY.
WHAT WE HAVE TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHETHER WE WANT TO RAISE MORE REVENUE TO GET THE DEBT DOWN.
I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF PROPOSALS TO RAISE MORE REVENUE.
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE COULD DO THERE.
I KNOW REPUBLICANS WOULD LIKE TO SEE SPENDING CUT.
THAT'S THE DEBATE THEY NEED TO HAVE.
IT'S NOT ABOUT WHETHER WE PAY THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOANED US MUN ABACK.
THAT'S A REALLY IRRESPONSIBLE WAY TO GOVERN AND REALLY GOOD POLICY IF WE GOT RID OF THE DEBT CEILING.
YOU MENTION RAISING REVENUE, WHICH BRINGS US TO THE NEXT CRISIS I WANT TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT.
AND DONNA, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS PRESIDENT BIDEN'S AGENDA ON THE LINE RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE A VOTE SET FOR THIS MONDAY THAT HAS DIVIDED THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.
WE HAVE THE BIPARTISAN BILL, THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL, THE $1 TRILLION BILL AND RECONCILIATION BILL THAT WE STILL DON'T HAVE AN AGREED UPON PRICE TAG ON AND THE ONLY THING WE'VE HEARD FROM CHUCK SCHUMER IS THEY'VE AGREED TO SOME SORT OF FRAMEWORK AS TO HOW IT WOULD BE PAID FOR.
HOW DO YOU INTERPRET THAT?
YOU ARE SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN IN MANY DISCUSSIONS IN THE PAST.
WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE TOGETHER ON SUPPORTING THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.
SOME OF THE DEMOCRATS, THE PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRATS, HAVE LINKED IT TO A VOTE ON THIS RECONCILIATION BILL BECAUSE THIS IS THE BIDEN PROMISE.
BUILD BACK BETTER.
IT'S GOT ENVIRONMENT, CHILD TAX CREDITS.
IT WILL TRANSFORM WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN AMERICAN.
IT WILL LIFT PEOPLE OUT OF POVERTY.
AND SO MANY DEMOCRATS WANT THAT BILL ALONG WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL.
WE ALSO HAVE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT HOW TO PAY FOR IT.
WAYS AND MEANS COMMITTEE HAVE PROPOSED A NUMBER OF WAYS.
AND WE HAVE AN ARGUMENT ABOUT THE SIZE OF IT.
HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE WANT TO SPEND?
3.5 BILLION IS THE BILL THAT'S COME UP THAT MANY -- THE MAJORITY OF THE DEMOCRATS, I BELIEVE, WANT TO SUPPORT THAT BILL.
BUT THERE'S A MINORITY THAT WANT A SMALLER NUMBER.
THEY WILL WORK IT OUT.
I'M ABSOLUTELY CONVINCED.
BUT ALL OF THIS IS ABOUT TIMING.
AND HOLDING UP THE INFRASTRUCTURE BILL FOR THIS LARGER RECONCILIATION BILL IS WHAT THEY'RE ARGUING ABOUT NOW.
AND THE PRESIDENT, GOD BLESS HIM, IS TRYING TO BRING THE PARTIES TOGETHER.
THE MODERATES WITH THE PROGRESSIVE TO GET SOME AGREEMENT.
AND THEY'RE WORKING VERY HARD AT THIS.
I'LL PUT MY MONEY ON NANCY PELOSI AND ON CHUCK SCHUMER AND ON THE PRESIDENT.
I THINK, AT THE END OF THE DAY, THEY'LL REACH SOME AGREEMENT.
LISTEN, NANCY PELOSI, NO ONE EVER BETS AGAINST HER, GIVEN HER RECORD OF PULLING RABBITS MAGICALLY OUT OF HER HAT.
BUT IT SEEMS A TOUGH PUVISION TO BE IN AND BOTH FACTIONS HAVE BEEN SCHOOL BIDE JOHN PUDESO, THE FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO BILL CLINLTEN.
I WANT TO READ FOR YOU AN EXCERPT OF A LETTER HE SENT TO EVERY CONGRESSIONAL MEMBER AND HERE'S WHAT HE SAID.
HE SAID THAT DEMOCRATS, THE PROGRESSIVES, NEED PAIR BACK THE $3.5 TRILLION OR THEY'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE A DEAL.
AND TO MODERATES, HE SAID YOU'RE GOING TO GET BOTH BILLS OR NEITHER AND THE PROSPECT OF NEITHER IS UNCONSCIONABLE.
WHEN YOU'RE HEARING A WARNINGS LIKE THIS, IT'S SOMETHING THAT STANDS OUT TO THE AMERICAN PUBLIC, I'M WONDERING IF IT RESONATES TO THESE OFFICIALS, WHO HAVE STUCK TO THEIR GUNS ON WANTING TO UPHOLD TO THEIR POLICIES.
AND THEIR INITIATIVES.
WELL, 70% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AGREE WITH THE ELEMENTS THAT ARE IN THAT BILL.
THEY CARE VERY MUCH ABOUT SUPPORTING CHILDREN, ELIMINATING POVERTY, INCREASING OUR SPENDING ON THE ENVIRONMENT.
I MEAN, THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THE SUPPORT.
REACHING AGREEMENT ABOUT A NUMBER IS WHAT WE END UP DOING.
AND JOHN HAS SIMPLY PUT A FRAMEWORK AROUND TWO DIFFERENT POLLS WITHIN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY THAT NEED COME TOGETHER.
THE PRESIDENT IS TRYING TO GLUE THEM TOGETHER.
AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT MAY NOT BE 3.5 BILLION.
BUT REMEMBER, THAT MONEY IS SPREAD OVER A NUMBER OF YEARS.
WHETHER THEY CUTBACKEN THE NUMBER OF YEARS OR THE INVESTMENTS IN SOME OF THE PROGRAMS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, THIS IS THE DEMOCRATIC AGENDA, THIS IS THE BIDEN AGENDA.
THIS IS WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO RUN ON IN THE NEXT ELECTION, PARTICULARLY THE HOUSE, THAT COMES UP EVERY TWO YEARS.
AND WE'VE GOT SOME SENATORS THAT ARE AT RISK.
AND I BELIEVE THAT THEY'LL TOGETHER.
THEY'LL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET THIS DONE.
MAYBE THEY CAN HEAR FROM YOU AS WELL TO HELP MOVE THIS PROCESS ALONG.
I'D LIKE TO BE A FLY INN ON THE WALL IN YOUR CLASSROOM AS YOU'RE TRYING TO NAVIGATE THIS IN ALL YOUR ECONOMICS CLASSES.
THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.
GOOD TO TALK TO YOU.
> WELL, NOW ONLY SOCIALISM CAN SAVE CHINA.
THOSE WERE THE WORDS OF CHINESE LEADER XI SHIN PING.
IT'S CLEAR THIS IS BEING ACCOMPANIED BY A CRACKDOWN ON THE PRIVATE SECTOR IN AN EFFORT TO REDISTRIBUTE WEALTH.
OTHER SECTORS, FROM REAL ESTATE TO EDUCATION, ARE BEING REIGNED IN BY REGULATORS.
MY NEXT GUEST HAS JUST WRITTEN ABOUT THIS IN HER LATEST ARTICLE FOR 'WALL STREET JOURNAL.'
SHEESZ SHE'S JOINING ME FROM NEW YORK.
THIS PIECE YOU WROTE WAS REALLY EYE OPENING BECAUSE I THINK, FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF HOW THE U.S. AND WEST HAVE VIEWED CHINA LATELY, WHAT'S HAPPENING INTERNALLY IS SOMETHING THEY HAVEN'T BEEN FOCUSSED ON.
WHAT YOU'RE SEEING IS HOW LEADERSHIP THERE IS APPROACHING BUSINESS CAPITALISM AND SOCIALISM IN THE END.
YES.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR HAVING ME.
INDEED.
SO, LET'S RECAP JUST A LITTLE BIT WHAT'S HAPPENED IN CHINA OVER THE PAST YEAR.
IT ALL STARTED IN NOVEMBER WHEN PRESIDENT XI JINPING PERSONALLY INTERVENED TO STOP A MASSIVE IPO FROM A PRIVATE TECH COMPANY, FUNDED BY CHINA'S MOST FAMOUS TECH BILLIONAIRE.
AND AFTER THAT, ONE ACTION AFTER ANOTHER, YOU'RE SEEING ALIBABA, BASICALLY CHINA'S AMAZON, GETTING STRUCK AND THEN THE GOVERNMENT LAUNCHING CYBER SECURITY INVESTIGATIONS INTO A RIGHT HAILING APP, ALSO VERY POPULAR IN CHINA.
AND IN OTHER SECTORS, CHINA BANNED FOREIGN TEXTBOOKS AND DECLARED WAR ON HOLLYWOOD STYLE, FANDOM, EVEN MOST RECENTLY, TRIED TO RESTRICT THE TIME CHILDREN PLAY, IN TERMS OF PLAYING DIGITAL GAMES.
WE DECIDED REALLY TO TAKE A DIFFERENT LOOK INTO WHAT'S GOING ON IN CHINA.
WHERE XI JINPING IS TAKING CHINA.
WE WENT TO INTERNAL SPEECHES BY PRESIDENT XI HIMSELF AND INTERVIEWED PEOPLE WHO ARE INVOLVED IN POLICY MAKES.
OUR CONCLUSION IS THIS IS MORE THAN REGULATORY CRACKDOWN.
IT'S MUCH AMBITIOUS.
IT'S A REALLY MORE AMBITIOUS PLAN, OVERALL, TO GEAR CHINESE ECONOMY INTO A NEW DIRECTION, BASICALLY BACK ON THE ROAD OF SOCIALISM.
AND FURTHER AWAY FROM WESTERN STYLE CAPITALISM.
RIGHT.
COMMON PROSPERITY IS HOW HE REFERS TO IT.
AND IT'S COMING AT THE EXPENSE OF PRIVATE ENTERPRISE.
I DO WANT TO GET YOU TO TALK ABOUT THE LATEST HEADLINES THERE WITH ONE OF THEIR LARGEST COMPANIES A REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, EVERGRANDE, WHICH ISEN THE VERGE OF COLLAPSE.
A HIGHLY LEVERAGED COMPANY THAT IT APPEARS THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT WILLING TO STEP UP AND BAILOUT.
MANY ARE REFERRING TO IT AS CHINA'S LEMAN BRUGT RBZ.
DOES THIS AT ALL PLAY INTO THE SHIFT WE'VE SEEN FROM XI JINPING OR IS THIS JUST A ONE OFF OF A COMPANY THAT WAS HAVING BAD BUSINESS PRACTICES AND SHOULD PERHAPS GO UNDER THEN BECAUSE OF THAT?
IT'S A HEAVILY INVESTED PRIVATE REAL ESTATE DEVELOPER.
TO BE SURE, CHINESE GOVERNMENT, UNDER XI JINPING, HAS WANTED TO SHAKE UP THE REAL ESTATE SECTOR FOR MANY YEARS.
REDUCE THE ECONOMIST'S ADDICTION TO REAL ESTATE.
SO, RECENTLY THEY STARTED TO TIGHTEN REAL ESTATE LENDING YET AGAIN.
BUT THIS TIME, YOU KNOW, THEY DEFINITELY PROVED TO BE MORE SERIOUS THAN IN THE PAST.
THE GOVERNMENT -- IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT WILL CONDUCT A WHOLE SALE BAILOUT OF A PRIVATE DEVELOPER, THE WAY THEY HAVE RESCUED MANY STATE COMPANIES.
AND IT DEFINITELY FITS WITH THE OVERALL DIRECTION THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING.
BECAUSE PART OF THE REASONS WHY THEY WANT TO CRACKDOWN ON REAL ESTATE SPECULATION IS, IN XI JINPING'S VIEW, PROPERTY SPECULATION IS ONE OF MANY CAPITALIST THEMES.
THE PROBLEMS WITH CHINA'S APPLICATION OF WESTERN STYLE CAPITALISM.
AND HE REALLY WANTS TO ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF WIDENING INCOME INEQUALITY IN CHINA.
AND TRYING TO REDUCE THE BURDENS ON 300S OF MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES THAT ARE EVER BURDENED BY A HOUSING CRIES.
IN MANY WAYS, THE QUESTIONS OF INEQUITY AND INEQUALITY ARE SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'RE FACING IN WESTERN COUNTRIES, LIKE THE UNITED STATES AS WELL.
WHAT'S PUZZLING ABOUT THE CHANGE WE'RE SEEING FROM XI JINPING IS THAT, CHINA, FOR OVER THE PAST FEW DECADES HAS, YES, USED THE COMMUNIST MODEL, BUT AT THE SAME TIME HAS ALLOWED CAPITALISM TO THRIVE, AND TO A POINT THAT HELPED LIFT IT TOOL THE WORLD'S SECOND LARGEST ECONOMY.
MANY ARE WONDERING IF HE KNOWS WHAT HE'S DOING FROM AN ECONOMIC STANDPOINT?
BECAUSE MANY ARE SAYING THIS WILL HURT CHINA'S ECONOMY, IN THE LONG TERM, IF YOU START TO CONTROL PRIVATE ENTERPRISE AND NOT ALLOW FOR ENTREPRENEURSHIP TOOL ARISE?
YOU'RE RIGHT.
THIS HAS CREATED A LOT OF TENSION, EVEN WITHIN CHINA.
YEARS OF EMBRACING MARKET FORCES AND WESTERN-STYLE CAPITALISM REALLY HAS LED TO ENORMOUS GROWTH.
AND VERY PROSPEROUS PRIVATE SECTOR, VIBRANT PRIVATE SECTOR.
AND NOW THE FEAR IS YOU KNOW, THE END OF ENTREPRENEURSHIP, THAT POWER CHINA GROWS IN INNOVATION FOR SO LONG.
ONE OF THE ENTREPRENEURS WE TALKED TO, BASICALLY TOLD US.
SO, IF WE'RE APT TO SHARE OUR WEALTH, THEN WHAT IS THE POINT OF TRYING SO HARD TO BUILD OUR OWN BUSINESS?
AND I WANTED TO ADDRESS THE -- ONE OF THE POINTS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER ABOUT THIS WHOLE ISSUE OF NARROWING INCOME GAP.
OBVIOUSLY WHAT XI IS DOING, THE COMMON PROSPERITY JIVE IS NOT THAT DIFFERENT THAN A LOT OF PROGRESSIVES IN THE WEST ARE CALLING FOR.
IN XI JINPING'S VIEW, THE WESTERN STYLE CAPITALISM HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO, YOU KNOW, BE IMPLEMENTED IN CHINA FOR TOO LONG.
AND NOW IT'S GONE OUT OF CONTROL.
HE FELT LIKE PREVIOUS CHINESE LEADERS DIDN'T DO MUCH TO TACKLE THAT AND NOW HE FEELS LIKE HE HAS TO DO SOMETHING TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM.
THE QUESTION IS THE MAIN IMBALANCE, DISTORTION IN CHINA'S ECONOMIC SYSTEM IS NOT MAINLY ABOUT THE WEALTH ACCUMULATED BY A FEW BILLIONAIRES, IT'S ABOUT A CONCENTRATION OF RESOURCES IN THE FACE SECTOR, IN LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.
SO, WE'RE NOT SEEING MANY SIGNS OF THAT GETTING ADDRESSED.
AND IF HE WERE TO VIEW CAPITALISM AS A STOP GAP, A TEMPORARY MEASURE TO GET TO OVERALL SOCIALISM AS HE WANTS TO APPARENTLY GO BACK TO AND UNDER MAO, THEY'RE STILL A POOR COUNTRY.
THEY DON'T APPEAR TO HAVE ACHIEVED THAT LEVEL QUITE YET.
I WANT TO PLAY THIS FROM A CRACKDOWN, WHO SAID IT WAS THE GLOBAL FINANCIAL CRASH THAT CHANGED EVERYTHING IN XI JINPING'S MIND, AT LEAST.
BEFORE THAT, EVERYBODY BELIEVED, THE ENTIRE LEADERSHIP AND MOST OF THE PEOPLE IN CHINA BELIEVE WE WANT TO BE LIKE THE WEST, WE WANT DEMOCRACY.
WE WERE HAPPY MORE ELECTION, MORE FREEDOM AND ALL THAT.
IT'S THE QUESTION, THE ARGUMENT AROUND IN THE SOCIETY AND WITHIN THE LEADERSHIP IS AT WHAT PACE ARE WE GOING TO GO AND GET IT?
THAT WAS THE DEBATE.
AFTER 2008, EVERYTHING CHANGED.
THEY FEEL LIKE LOOK AT THE WEST.
IT'S NOT THAT GREAT.
SO, HE'S ARGUING IT'S 2008 THAT STARTED THIS CHANGE.
YOU SAY A LARGE PART OF IT WAS COVID AND HOW IT WAS HANDLED BY U.S. AND OTHER WESTERN NATIONS BUT PARTICULARLY U.S.
AND HOW THE U.S. HAS LET TECH COMPANIES RUN AMUCK.
I WOULD SAY I AGREE 2008 WAS THE TURNING POINT, IN TERMS OF CHINESE LEADERSHIP THINKING OF THE WESTERN MODEL.
WHAT I'M ARGUING IS THAT, BASED ON OUR REPORTING, THAT THE TREND AWAY FROM CAPITAL -- WESTERN-STYLE CAPITALISM REALLY HAS ACCELERATED UNDER PRESIDENT XI JINPING, ESPECIALLY OVER THE LAST YEAR OR SO.
THE COVID PANDEMIC MADE THEM FEEL LIKE EVEN THE CHINESE SYSTEM WERE SUPERIOR.
THEY WERE THE FIRST TO GET HIT WITH COVID AND THE FIRST TO COME OUT OF IT.
AND CHINA'S ECONOMY HAS BEEN REBOUNDING STRONGLY.
SO, THAT GAVE XI JINPING A LOT OF CONFIDENCE.
TO BE HONEST, BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, XI JINPING WAS PUT THE A LOT OF PRESSURE HIMSELF.
PEOPLE IN ELITE CIRCLES REALLY WERE BLAMING HIM FOR THE HANDLING OF THE U.S./CHINA RELATIONSHIP, THE TRADE WAR, AND DEMOC RATES PROTEST HONG KONG.
BUT THIS PANDEMIC RALLIED SUPPORT AROUND HIM.
AND IT'S NOT JUST THE ECONOMIC REFORMS UNDER WAY RIGHT NOW BUT SOCIAL REFORMS AS WELL.
I HOPE TO HAVE YOU ON SOON SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE SHIFTS CHANGING THERE IN CHINA AS WE SPEAK.
FASCINATING CONVERSATION.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU.
> TURNING TO COVID-19, WHICH IS NOW THE DEADLIEST PANDEMIC IN THE HISTORY OF THE UNITED STATES.
OVER 681,000 AMERICANS HAVE DIE FROM THE VIRUS.
AND THAT'S MORE THAN THE 1918 SPANISH FLU.
IN A PIECE FOR THE SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN, SHE SAYS THE PATIENTS DON'T STOP COMING.
HERE SHE IS SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT IT'S LIKE CARING FOR THE SICKEST PATIENTS.
PART OF WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION RIGHT NOW IS THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE IN THIS SPRING STATE OF MIND, THAT WE'RE OVER THIS PANDEMIC.
YOU'RE IN TENNESSEE, YOU'VE BEEN WORKING AS AN ICU NURSE.
IT'S WORSE THAN IT'S EVER BEEN.
WE HAVE MORE COVID PATIENTS THAN EVER BEFORE.
THEY'RE COMING IN YOUNGER AND MUCH SICKER.
INTUBAITED MUCH MORE QUICKLY.
IT'S WORSE THAN IT'S EVER BEEN AND IT BLEW MY MIND LAST YEAR THAT I WOULD LEAVE THE HOSPITAL AND SEE PEOPLE ON PARTY BUSES AND CROWDING UP AND DOWN BROADWAY ACTING LIKE IT'S NOT HAPPENING.
IT HURTS WORSE NOW BECAUSE IT'S SO MUCH WORSE INSIDE THE HOSPITAL AND PEOPLE ARE ACTING LIKE IT'S ALL A GAME OR NOT HAPPENING AT ALL.
LET'S TALK ABOUT HOW THE COMPOSITION OF YOUR PATIENTS HAVE CHANGED.
WHEN IT CAME TO DECEMBER OR JANUARY, VERSES TODAY.
WHO ARE YOU TREATING?
RIGHT NOW IN THEIR 30s TO EARLY 50s.
WE DO HAVE PEOPLE IN THEIR 60s, 70s, AND 80s, BUT WHEREAS LAST WINTER, 60, 70s AND 80s WERE THE MAJORITY OF MY COVID PATIENTS.
IT WAS A RARITY TO HAVE SOMEBODY UNDER 55.
NOW, 42, 49, ONE THAT WAS EARLY 30s.
WE'VE HAD SOME EARLY 20s.
THAT WAS MUCH RARER THIS WINTER.
AND NOW THAT IS THE MAJORITY OF OUR PATIENT POPULATION.
WE HEARD THIS FROM SO MANY PARTS OF THE COUNTRY.
ARE THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE ENDING UP IN THE HOSPITAL, OR HAVE TO BE IN THE ICU UNVACCINATED?
I HAVE HAD ONE FULLY VACCINATED PATIENT THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND THEY HAD EXTREME COMORBIDITIES AND WAS IMMUNE COMPROMISED.
THE REST OF THEM ARE UNVACCINATED.
AND HOW FRUSTRATING IS THAT?
IT'S -- FRUSTRATING DOESN'T BEGIN TO COVER IT.
BY THE TIME YOU HAVE SOMEONE ROLL UP INTO THE ICU ON A BIPAP STRUGGLING TO BREATHE, TERRIFIED, YOU CAN'T BE ANGRY AT THAT PERSON.
BECAUSE MANY OF THEM JUST FELL PREY TO ALL OF THESE MISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS THAT HAVE BEEN OVERWHELMING PEOPLE ALL ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
AND A LOT OF THEM DID NOT RECOGNIZE THE SEVERITY OF COVID UNTIL IT CAME TO THEIR DOOR.
MY ANGER IS NOT DIRECTED AT MY PATIENTS.
BECAUSE BY THE TIME THEY COME TO ME, THEY KNOW BETTER.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO SEE THESE PEOPLE SUFFERING IMMENSELY FOR WEEKS ON END AND KNOW THAT THERE WAS A WAY FOR THEM TO NOT SUFFER.
IT WOULD HAVE BEEN VERY, VERY EASY FOR THEM TO NOT BE IN THE ICU AT ALL.
IT'S WITH US ALL THE TIME.
EVEN WHEN I'M NOT AT WORK, I'M THINKING ABOUT COVID AND MY PATIENTS.
THE FIRST THING THAT POPS IN MY HEAD IS IF YOU HAD COVID, YOU WOULD PROBABLY DIE, BASED ON THEIR AGE OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.
I FEEL LIKE I'M CONSTANTLY TRIAGING PEOPLE, BASED ON WHETHER THEY WOULD SURVIVE COVID.
I'M AWARE OF HOW NOT HEALTHY THAT IS.
IT IS ALWAYS THERE.
AND IT DIDN'T HAVE TO BE.
WE COULD HAVE BEEN THROUGH IT.
MOST PEOPLE HAVE NOT BEEN IN AN ICU AND ARE FORTUNATE.
BUT WHEN YOU'RE ON A SHIP, WHAT ARE THE SIGHTS, SOUNDS, WHAT ARE YOU LIVING THROUGH, THROUGH ALL OF THOSE HOURS?
WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 35 ICU BEDS.
LAST TIME I WAS THERE EVERY SINGLE PATIENT, EXCEPT ONE, WAS ON A VENTILATOR.
YOU HEAR A LOT OF ALARMS.
IT'S CONSTANT ALARMS.
AND IT'S A LITTLE SURREAL BECAUSE THEY'RE ON VENTILATORS.
AND THE PATIENT WILL USE THEIR CALL LIGHT TO SAY I NEED HELP GOING TO THE BATHROOM OR I NEED WATER.
THERE'S NO CALL BELLS ANYMORE, NONE.
IT'S JUST ALARMS FOR DANGEROUSLY LOW HEART RATE OR SATURATION.
I KNOW YOU'VE DEALT WITH SO MANY BUT WHAT'S ONE THAT COMES TO MIND?
THERE WAS ONE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO WHO WAS -- SHE WAS ON THE YOUNGER END.
AND SHE HAD BEENEN THE BIPAP FOR A COUPLE DAYS BY THE TIME I HAD HER.
SHE WAS DOING REALLY, REALLY WELL.
THE THING WITH COVID THAT IS SO AWFUL IS WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AND WE STILL CAN'T STOP IT.
THERE ARE SIGNS WE ALL RECOGNIZE THAT A PATIENT IS GOING DOWN HILL.
AND THIS PATIENT WAS DOING REALLY WELL AND THEN I STARTED TO SEE THE SIGNS.
IT'S THIS DREAD IN YOUR CHEST BECAUSE SHE WAS THE NICEST LADY.
IT'S ALWAYS THE NICE ONES.
JUST THE SWEETEST, SWEETEST LADY.
AND I STARTED SEEING HER OXYGEN GO DOWN MORE AND MORE AND IT TOOK HER LONGER AND LONGER TO RECOVER.
AND WHEN I WAS DOING MY LAST CHECK IN THE MORNING BEFORE I LEFT, YOU KNOW, SHE GRABBED MY HAND AND SHE HAD THAT BIPAP ON, SO HER VOICE WAS REALLY MUFFLED.
AND SHE SAID I DON'T WANT YOU TO GO.
I KNEW IN MY GUT THE NEXT TIME I SAW HER SHE WAS GOING TO BE INTUBAETED.
AND I WAS RIGHT.
I CAME BACK SHE WAS INTUBATED.
I DON'T REMEMBER THEIR NAMES BUT I REMEMBER ALL OF THEM.
AND THEY'RE ALL SAD.
YOU ARE WORKING IN A STATE WHERE, I WANT TO SAY RIGHT NOW THE VACCINATION RATE IS 44%. AND WHEN WE LOOK BACK AT THE PAST COUPLE OF WEEKS, THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IS UP 120%. THIS DOESN'T SEEM TO BE TURNING A CORNER.
WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID COULD HAPPEN IN TENNESSEE?
I THINK IT'S GOING TO KEEP GETTING WORSE.
LIKE YOU SAID, WE -- OUR VACCINATION RATE IS ABYSMAL.
OUR GOVERNOR HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING TO CONTAIN THE SPREAD OF THE VIRUS, ADAMANTLY AGAINST MASK MANDATES FOR SCHOOLS.
ADAMANTLY AGAINST EVEN -- NOT EVEN A FULL LOCKDOWN BUT RESTRICTIONS ON GATHERINGS.
MITIGATION MEASURES HERE ARE SLIM TO NONE.
AND VIRUSES ARE EXPONENTIAL.
THAT'S HOW THEY WORK, THAT'S WHAT THEY DO.
AND UNTIL SOMETHING CHANGES, IT'S NUMBERS ARE GOING TO KEEP GOING UP.
I SAW MY MOTHER YESTERDAY AND SHE ASKED ME IF THINGS HAD GOTTEN ANY BETTER AT WORK AND I WAS LIKE NO, IT'S GETTING WORSE.
AND THAT SCARES ME BECAUSE WE'VE ALREADY ALMOST RUN OUT OF VENTILATORS, BIPAPS.
WE'VE ALREADY HAD TO KEEP VENTILATED PATIENTS ON SURGICAL, MEDICAL FLOORS, WHICH ARE NOT EQUIPPED.
OUR POOR ERs ARE FILLED WITH ICU HOLDS.
ONE A NURSE USED TO CARING FOR FIVE OR SIX EMERGENCY ROOM PATIENTS, HAS TO TAKE CARE OF AN ICU PATIENT BEING HELD DOWN IN THE ER.
THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM CAN ONLY BEND SO FAR BEFORE IT BREAKS.
AND WE'RE PRESSING THAT BUTTON PRETTY HARD RIGHT NOW.
I'M NOT EXCITED ABOUT SEEING WHAT HAPPENS WHEN IT GETS WORSE, IF IT GETS WORSE.
WERE YOU ICU WARDS FULL?
YES, WE HAVE BEEN OVER CAPACITY FOR WEEKS.
SO, THERE'S A REASON THEY'RE CALLED INTENSIVE CARE UNITS.
NOW, WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU ARE OVER CAPACITY?
WHAT HAPPENS TO THE PATIENT THAT NEEDS IT BUT WHEN THERE'S NO SPACE IN THAT WARD?
SOMETIMES THEY DIE.
THERE HAVE BEEN MULTIPLE INSTANCES, NONE I CAN THINK OF IN MY HOSPITAL BUT AROUND THE COUNTRY, MULTIPLE INCIDENTS OF PASCHENTS IN THE ER, HAVE NEEDED AN ICU BED AND THERE HAVE BEEN NONE AVAILABLE.
WITHIN A HUNDRED MILES AND SO THEY DIE.
WE'VE HAD PATIENTS THAT REQUIRED A SPECIALIST PHYSICIAN, SURGERY, WHAT HAVE YOU AND ALL OF THE HOSPITALS THAT OFFER THOSE SERVICES ARE FULL.
AND SO, THESE PEOPLE ARE BASICALLY PUT ON A WAITING LIST.
AND WHEN I SAY WAITING LIST, WHAT I MEAN IS WE'RE WAITING FOR ANOTHER PATIENT IN THIS SPECIALTY CENTER TO DIE SO THAT BED OPENS UP.
BECAUSE WITH COVID PATIENTS, THESE PEOPLE ARE IN ICU BEDS FOR WEEKS.
I MEAN, THREE WEEKS, FOUR WEEKS.
IT IS A LONG TIME.
AND YES, WE'VE HAD SOME SUCCESS STORIES BUT FOR THE MOST PART, THAT BED OPENS UP WHEN SOMEBODY DIES.
I WANT PEOPLE TO FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT.
BECAUSE WHEN WE'RE WAITING FOR SOMEBODY TO BE TRANSFERRED, WE'RE WAITING FOR SOMEONE ELSE TO DIE.
AS A NURSE, THAT IS SO VISCERALLY UPSETTING TO ME THAT MY PATIENT GETTING QUALITY CARE DEPENDS ON SOMEONE ELSE'S PATIENT DYING.
THAT'S HORRIFIC.
TAKE ME INTO THE BREAK ROOM, IF YOU WILL.
AFTER YOU'RE SEEING THE PATIENTS, WHAT ARE YOU NURSES, CRITICAL CARE NURSES TALKING ABOUT?
A LOT OF IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE FACT THAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO THIS ANYMORE.
WHETHER THIS IS NURSING IN GENERAL, WHETHER THIS IS COVID, WHETHER IT'S ALL OF THE DENIALISM AND MISINFORMATION SURROUNDING COVID.
I HEARD SO MANY OF MY COWORKERS SAY I DON'T WANT TADO THIS ANYMORE.
AND A LOT OF TIMES WE SAY IT JOKINGLY.
BUT THERE'S THAT EDGE OF REAL TRAUMA, FOR LACK OF A BETTER WORD, UNDERNEATH IT.
NURSES ARE ANGRY.
I HAVE SEEN VERY CALM, VETERAN, SEASONED NURSES JUST MAD AS ALL GET OUT OVER THIS.
BECAUSE THEY'RE ANGRY AT THE FACT THAT WE STILL HAVE TO DO THIS.
ANGRY@THE FACT THAT WE'RE STILL PUTTING OURSELVES AT RISK, OUR FAMILIES AT RISK BY CONSTANTLY BEING EXPOSED TO THESE PATIENTS WHO, FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER, HAVE NOT TAKEN THE STEPS TO PROTECT THEMSELVES.
YOU CAN ONLY DO THAT SO MANY TIMES BEFORE SOMETHING IN YOU JUST BREAKS AND YOU'RE JUST ANGRY ALL THE TIME.
THERE'S A RECENT SURVEY OF MORE THAN 6,000 ACUTE AND CRITICAL CARE NURSES AND SOME OF THE NUMBERS I JUST WANT TO LOOK AT HERE.
92% OF NURSES SURVEYED SAID THEY DEPLETED NURSES AT THEIR HOSPITALS, AND AS A RESULT, THEIR CAREERS WILL BE SHORTER THAN THEY INTENDED.
ANOTHER ONE THAT LEFT OUT, 66% FEEL THEIR EXPERIENCES DURING THE PANDEMIC HAVE CAUSE SAID THEM TO CONSIDER LEAVING NURSING.
NOW, YOU ARE THE FRESHEST OF NURSES.
YOU GRADUATED RIGHT INTO THIS PANDEMIC.
SO, HAVE YOU HAD SECOND THOUGHTS?
NO, I HAVEN'T.
BUT I WAS MADE TO BE A NURSE.
IT SOUNDS CHEESY BUT IT'S 100% TRUE.
THIS IS THE ONLY THING THERE IS FOR ME.
I LOVE IT.
EVEN DURING ALL OF COVID, I LOVE IT.
THERE ARE A LOT OF FANTASTIC NURSES OUT THERE WHO DO NOT FEEL THE SAME WAY ABOUT NURSING THAT I DO.
AND THAT'S OKAY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO FEEL THE WAY ABOUT NURSING THAT I DO TO BE A GOOD NURSE.
BUT THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTANDABLY SO, THE RISKS AND THE PAIN THAT COMES WITH THIS ARE NO LONGER -- THERE ARE NO LONGER ENOUGH BENEFITS TO CANCEL IT OUT.
AND I THINK THAT IS COMPLETELY UNDERSTANDABLE.
I THINK IF YOU HAVE TO CHOOSE BETWEEN YOUR MENTAL HEALTH AND YOUR JOB, YOU SHOULD CHOOSE YOUR HEALTH EVERY TIME.
NURSES -- NURSING HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY HIGH TURNOVER PROFESSION, BECAUSE HOSPITALS HAVE ALWAYS BURNED THROUGH NURSES.
THIS IS A VERY LONG-STANDING ISSUE THAT IS BEGINNING TO COME TO LIGHT BECAUSE THERE'S A DIRE NEED OF NURSES.
BUT THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE.
I HAVE TO IMAGINE HERE THAT IF YOU ARE USUALLY AN ICU NURSE THAT MAYBE DEALS WITH ONE PATIENT OR POSSIBLY TWO, AND YOU HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF THREE, JUST LOGISTICALLY SPEAKING --
OH, IT'S A NIGHTMARE.
THEY'RE GETTING LESS QUALITY CARE?
THAT'S EXACTLY THE ISSUE.
I WOULD SAY TYPICALLY, MOST TWO PATIENTS IS TYPICAL.
IF YOU HAVE ONE, THEY'RE ON THE F MO, OR SOMETHING CALLED CRT OR HAVE A BALLOON PUMP, WHERE YOU HAVE TO HAVE EYESEN THAT PERSON AT ALL TIME.
TWO IS A TYPICAL ASSIGNMENT.
IN THE ICU, EVERY FIVE MINUTES, YOU'RE HAVING TO TURN ONE MEDICATION UP AND ANOTHER DOWN IN ORDER TO GET THEIR BLOOD PRESSURE WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE, THEIR HEART RATE, THEIR SEDATION WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.
YOU CAN IMAGINE IF YOU HAVE THREE PATIENTS, ALL OF WHOM ARE ON VENTILATORS AND REQUIRING TIME TREATABLE MEDICATIONS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TIME DO ANYTHING OTHER THAN KEEP UP WITH TASKS.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO TIME TO SUPPORT THAT PATIENT EMOTIONALLY, YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO COMMUNICATE WITH THE FAMILY MEMBERS, DOCTORS, OTHER MEMBERS OF THE TEAM.
CARE ABSOLUTELY SUFFERS.
EVEN THE BEST ICU NURSES OFTEN STRUGGLE WITH BEING TRIPLED BECAUSE IT'S SIMPLY UNSAFE.
THERE'S A PHOTO YOU SHARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.
AND ON THE LEFT SIDE IS THIS SORT OF YOUNG, VIBRANT, HAPPY TO BE A NURSE LOOK.
AND THEN ON THE RIGHT SIDE IS PERHAPS YOU AFTER A SHIFT.
I WAS PRETTY TIRED.
THAT WAS ACTUALLY IN THE MIDDLE OF A SHIFT.
I THINK I HAD JUST GOTTEN A COVID ADMISSION AND HAD BEEN IN THE ROOM ABOUT AN HOUR, WEARING MY RESPIRATOR AND GOGGLES AND FACE SHIELD AND PLASTIC GOWNS THAT MADE YOU SWEAT BUCKETS.
SO, AFTER I TOOK MY PPE OFF, I HID IN THE BATHROOM TO GET A MINUTE TO MYSELF, COOL DOWN, DRINK WATER AND I LOOKED AT MISELF IN THE MIRROR AND WAS LIKE YOU LOOK RATCHED.
I REMEMBER I ACTUALLY HAD THAT IMAGE OF MY COMPOSITE PICTURE FROM NURSING SCHOOL IN MY HEAD.
BECAUSE I WAS THINKING THE SAME THING YOU DID.
I REMEMBER I HAD THIS TWINKLE IN MY EYES, LIKE I'M ALMOST DONE WITH NURSING SCHOOL AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT CORONAVIRUS IS YET.
I WAS LIKE WOW.
AT THAT POINT, THERE HAD BEEN LESS THAN A YEAR BETWEEN THOSE TWO PICTURES.
SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS.
WHAT WOULD YOU TELL MAYBE YOUR YOUNGER SELF, THE ONE THAT IS IN THE PICTURE, THE ONE ABOUT TO GRADUATE OR PERHAPS A YOUNG STUDENT ABOUT TO FINISH AND COME INTO NURSING TODAY?
TELL HIM TO BUCKLE UP AND GET READY.
LIKE I SAID, TO ME, IT IS STILL WORTH IT.
NURSING IS STILL WORTH IT BUT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT ISN'T AND THAT'S OKAY.
I WOULD TELL THEM KNOW YOUR LIMITS, KNOW YOUR BOUNDARIES.
KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE TO SHUT IT DOWN AND CHECK OUT A LITTLE BIT.
BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A TIDAL WAVE OF DEATH AND NOTHING PREPARES YOU.
I KNOW YOU HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME.
BUT THANK YOU FOR STAYING IN THIS PROFESSION AND DOING WHAT YOU DO.
THANKS FOR JOINING US.
THANK YOU.
MY PLEASURE.
POWERFUL TESTIMONY THAT SERVES AS AN IMPORTANT REMINDER OF THE COST OF COVOID.
> AND FINALLY, WE'RE GOING TO SHIFT GEARS.
EVER WONDER WHAT HAPPENS WHEN NATURE BREAKS THE LAW?
IT HAPPENS.
THAT'S WHAT AUTHOR, MARY ROACH, GRAPPLES WITH.
BIRDS GETTING SUCKED INTO JET ENGINES AND A J-WALKING MOOSE.
SHE LOOKS AT THE IMPACT OF HUMANS COLLIDING WITH THE NATURAL WORLD AND AN ISSUE CENTRAL TO THE CLIMATE CRISIS.
SHE JOINS US LIVE FROM OAKLAND, CALIFORNIA TO DIG INTO THE, SOMETIMES BEMUSING WORLD, OF WILDLIFE.
CONGRATULATIONS ON THE BOOK.
SO, YOU ARE KNOWN, YOU'RE FAMES FOR TAKING A LOOK AT THE QUIRKY, WEIRD, MAGICAL SIDE OF SCIENCE, AT TIMES AND REALLY EXAMINING ASPECTS THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T.
FOR EXAMPLE THE HUMAN DIGESTIVE SYSTEM AND CADAVERS.
WHAT DREW YOU TO FOCUS ON THE HUMAN WILDLIFE CONFLICT FOR THIS BOOK?
I USED UP THE HUMAN BODY, AT LEAST THE ROACHABLE PARTS OF IT.
I THOUGHT NEED TO LOOK SOMEWHERE ELSE.
THE ONE THAT I REALLY TRACE IT TO IS THIS BIZARRE 1906 BOOK CALLED THE CRIMINAL PROSECUTION AND CAPITOL PUNISHMENT OF ANIMALS.
AND IT COVERS HOW WE, AS HUMANS DEALT WITH ANIMALS IN THE 1500S, 1600s AND 1700s.
IN FACT, ANIMALS WOULD BE ARRESTED, PUT IN PRISON, PUT ON TRIAL AND SOMETIMES EXECUTED.
I REMEMBER THINKING THAT'S NOT A VERY GOOD APPROACH.
THE LEGAL SYSTEM IS PROBABLY NOT THE WAY TO GO.
THE LAWS ARE NOT OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN FOR ANIMALS.
THEY'RE WRITTEN FOR HUMANS.
I THOUGHT WHAT HAS SCIENCE BROUGHT THE TABLE?
AND WHAT ARE BETTER WAYS TO, NOT JUST RESOLVE CONFLICTS BUT PREVENT THEM FROM HAPPENING IN THE FIRST PLACE?
I KNOW YOU TALK ABOUT PIGS BEING PROSECUTED AND THAT'S MORE ALIGNED WITH PROPERTY.
IT'S THE OWNER OF THE PIGS BEING PROSECUTED.
STILL ODD TO SEE THAT THE PIG IS BEING SUED.
YOU TALK ABOUT AN EXAMPLE IN ITALY, IN THE 17th CENTURY, WHERE CATER PILLARS WHO ARE EATING CROPS ARE PROSECUTED.
I CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
ARE THEY ENTITLED TO DEFENSE OF THEIR OWN?
YEAH, 1659 IN A PROVINCE IN NORTHERN ITALY AND CATERPILL ARS WERE DOING THEIR THING AND THEY NAILED TO TREE, A LEGAL SUMMONS, TELLING THEM TO APPEAR IN COURT, AT WHICH POINT THEY WOULD BE ASSIGNED LEGAL REPRESENTATION.
OBVIOUSLY, THE CATERPILLARS DID NOT SHOW UP AND A LEGAL PROCESS DID OCCUR AND THE WISE CITY FATHERS DECIDE WE WILL SET ASIDE ALTERNATE LAND FOR THE CATERPILLARS SO THEY WILL LEAVE US ALONE.
BY THEN, THE CATERPILLARS WERE GONE.
AND SO, EVERYBODY LEFT SATISFIED.
I THINK IT WAS A WAY TO SHOW OFF, IN A WAY, BY THOSE IN POWER TO SAY WE HAVE DOMINION OVER ALL, EVEN NATURE AND WE WILL FIND A SLUGDS.
SOLUTION BUT IT WAS VERY BIZARRE.
I TRY TO IMAGINE WHO THE LAWYER WAS FOR THE CATERPILLARS.
PROBABLY NOT THE PROUDEST MOMENT IN ITALY'S ESTEEMED HISTORY GOING BACK.
BUT YOU SPENT TIME LIVING IN PRESENT DAY AND HOW WE COEXIST WITH ANIMALS.
YOU FOCUS ON BEARS IN ASPEN.
AND NOT TO SAY THAT YOU BECOME USED TO IT.
BUT IN A SENSE, THERE ARE MANY LOCALES AND TOURISTS WHO SEE BEARS QUITE FREQUENTLY AND THEY CHANGE THEIR BEHAVIOR.
NOT THE TOURISTS, BUT THE BEARS.
BEARS WALK NOTHING TO RESTAURANTS, EVEN UNWRAPPING HERSHEY'S KISS.
I FIND THAT STUNNING TO BELIEVE BUT IMPRESSIVE TOO.
YEAH, THE ISSUES WITH -- I MEAN, BEARS -- FOR THE MOST PART, PEOPLE HAVE ENCOUNTERS WITH BEARS THAT ARE, IN FACT, LOVELY FOR THE PERSON AND THE BEARS ARE NONCHALANT.
BUT THE DANGER HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE DON'T SECURE THINGS ATTRACTIVE TO BEARS AND DON'T HAVE THEIR TRASH IN BEAR-RESISTANT CONTAINERS OR THEY DIDN'T WASH THE GRILL AND THE BEAR STARTS TO GOAT COMFORTABLE BEING AROUND HUMANS, GETS BOULDER AND EVENTUALLY BOLDNESS CAN BECOME AGGRESSION.
THERE'S A PERSON FROM COLORADO, PARKS AND WILDLIFE, SAID THEY'VE BEEN AT A DINING TABLE AND BEARS COME IN AND LEFT.
OKAY, NO ONE WAS HARMED.
BUT HAD A BEAR PANICKED, A BEAR LUNGED AT THE BEAR, A PERSON GET INVOLVED, THAT'S HOW PEOPLE GET HURT.
THE SAD THING IS, WHEN PEOPLE CALL THEM IN, THE -- WHAT'S DONE IS THEY'RE PUT DOWN.
THEY'RE DESTROYED.
SO, SAFER TO KEEP THE TWO SPECIES AT A SAFE DISTANCE AND NOT TO LEAVE OUT THINGS THAT ATTRACT THEM, THAT THEY'RE GOING TO BRING THEM INTO THE HUMAN ENVIRONMENT.
EXACTLY.
AND BECAUSE THE PROTOCOL IS TO PUT THEM DOWN, YOU EXPLAIN THAT MANY LOCALES DON'T CALL FOR AUTHORITIES TO COME IN BECAUSE THEY KNOW SUBSEQUENTLY WHAT WILL HAPPEN.
BUT I WAS SURPRISED TO LEARN THERE ARE RULES IN PLACE IN THE U.S. AND MAYBE EACH COUNTRY HAS THEIR OWN, ABOUT HOW TO HANDLE AN ATTACK BY AN ANIMAL.
THERE'S AN INVESTIGATION THAT GOES ON WHEN SOMEBODY IS KILLED OR ATTACKED BY WILDLIFE.
YEAH.
I WENT TO THIS FASCINATING TRAINING SEMINAR AND WHAT THIS IS, IT'S A FORENSICS TRAINING.
SO, WHEN AN ANIMAL HAS ATTACKED AND KILLED A PERSON, WHETHER IT'S A BEAR OR COUGAR, USUALLY IN THE UNITED STATES.
SO, WHEN THE CRIME SCENE, IN QUOTATION MARKS, IS SEALED OFF WITH YELLOW CAUTION TAPE, JUST LIKE A MURDER CASE WITH A HUMAN-ON-HUMAN CRIME.
AND PROFESSIONALS COME IN AND THE FIRST THING THEY HAVE TO DO IS FIGURE OUT WHAT SPECIES DID THIS?
WAS IT A BEAR?
A HUMAN?
A WOLF?
BECAUSE THEY HAVE TELL TALE MARKS FROM THE PAW -- FROM THE CLAWS, FROM THE JAWS.
SO, FIRST YOU DETERMINE THE SPECIES AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT INDIVIDUAL ANIMAL.
THEY'RE GOING TO COMPARE DNA FROM THE SALIVA ON THE VICTIM.
IF THEY'VE CAUGHT AN ANIMAL, THEY'LL TRY TO ESTABLISH LINKAGE BETWEEN THE TWO.
I LOVE THIS PART, IF THEY'VE CAUGHT THE WRONG BEAR, SAY, THE SUSPECT IS RELEASED.
YEAH.
IT SHOULD BE.
ACQUITTED, RIGHT?
ACQUITTED, EXACTLY.
WHAT I LIKE THAT YOU DO IS BRING HUMOR AND LEVITY INTO REAL-LIFE SITUATIONS AND CRISIS AND THAT BEING CLIMATE CHANGE, AND ALSO IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE ANIMALS AND HUMANS LIVING IN CLOSE PROXIMITY BECAUSE OF THAT.
YOU GIVE INDIA, FOR EXAMPLE, WHERE HUMANS ARE ENCROACHING ON LAND THAT WAS ONCE ROAMED BY WILD ELEPHANTS AND THIS, OBVIOUSLY, CONFLICT ENSUES.
BEFORE WE GET THE SERIOUS NATURE OF WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THAT OCCURS, I ALSO LEARNED THAT ELEPHANTS LIKE ALCOHOL, WHICH I NEVER KNEW.
I'M NOT SURE MANY PEOPLE KNEW THAT.
HOW DID YOU FIND THAT OUT?
I WAS TRAVELING WITH A RESEARCHER FROM THE WILDLIFE INSTITUTE OF INDIA, AND HE GOES AROUND TO VILLAGES THAT HAVE HAD A LOT OF HUMAN/ELEPHANT CONTACT AND ON WHAT THEY CAN DO AND HE TRIES TO ENCOURAGE PEOPLE NOT TO RUN OUT INTO THE FIELD AND MAKE THE ANIMALS PANIC AND SCATTER, ETC.
BECAUSE SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET TRAMPLED.
IN EXPLAINING HOW THESE THINGS HAPPEN, HE MENTIONED PEOPLE OFTEN HAVE A HOME BREW, FERMENTED ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE AND THE ELEPHANTS ENJOY A TIPPAL.
SO, THEY'LL BRING THE HOME BREW IN THE HOUSE TO KEEP THE ELEPHANTS AWAY, NOT REALIZING IT'S EASY FOR THE ELEPHANTS TO KNOCK DOWN A WALL.
AND AS OUR PRODUCERS KNOW, GIVEN THEIR MEMORIES, RIGHT AND THE VAST MEMORIES, WILL ALCOHOL IMPEDE THAT AND WOULD THEY REMEMBER WHAT THEY DRANK THE NIGHT BEFORE?
PROBABLY SOMETHING FOR YOUR NEXT BOOK TO INVESTIGATE.
BUT REALLY IMPORTANT CONVERSATION TO BE HAD ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN HUMANS AND ANIMALS COEXIST AND HOW THEY CAN DO IT PEACEFULLY AND WHEN ELEMENTS AND CLIMATE CHANGE IMPACT THAT, AND IT TURNS DEADLY FOR BOTH SIDES.
ALWAYS GREAT TO HEAR FROM YOU AND READ YOUR FASCINATING BOOK, PUT A SMILE ON YOUR FACE AND MAKE YOU THINK AS WELL.
THANK YOU.
APPRECIATE IT.
OH, MY PLEASURE.
THANK YOU.
THAT'S IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.
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THIS IS 'AMANPOUR.'
WATCH AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
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