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>>> HELLO, EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY."
HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.
>>> THOUSANDS TAKE TO THE STREETS IN MEXICO, OPPOSING SWEEPING JUDICIAL REFORMS.
WITH A NEW PRESIDENT SET TO TAKE POWER SOON, WHAT'S AT STAKE?
I ASK NPR CORRESPONDENT EYDER PERALTA AND MEXICAN FORMER FOREIGN MINISTER JORGE CASTANEDA.
>>> THEN -- >> WE ARE ATHLETES.
WE BELONG HERE.
WE BELONG TO BE SEEN.
AND IT'S SO HARD TO DREAM AND BECOME SOMETHING WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.
>> A STORY OF RESILIENCE AND HOPE.
AS A SUMMER OF SPORT WRAPS UP IN PARIS.
MY CONVERSATION WITH PARALYMPIAN OKSANA MASTERS.
>>> ALSO AHEAD -- >> IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE DEMOCRATIC IDEALS OF FREEDOM AND EQUALITY, WE NEED TO KNOW WHO HAS BEEN DENIED EQUALITY AND WHY.
>> ERASING HISTORY.
AUTHOR JASON STANLEY TALKS TO HARI ABOUT HIS LATEST BOOK EXPLORING THE WORST AUTHORITARIAN MOVEMENTS OF TODAY.
♪♪♪ >>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
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AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
>>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE, I'M BIANNA GOLODRYGA IN NEW YORK, SITTING IN FOR CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR.
IN MEXICO, DEMOCRACY AND RULE OF LAW ARE UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT.
THOUSANDS ARE PROTESTING AGAINST HIGHLY CONTROVERSIAL JUDICIAL REFORM PLANS THAT WOULD REQUIRE JUDGES AND MAGISTRATES TO BE ELECTED BY POPULAR VOTE.
CRITICS SAY THE CHANGES WOULD WEAKEN CRUCIAL CHECKS OF POWER AND THREATEN DEMOCRACY.
PRESIDENT ANDRES MANUEL LOPEZ OBRADOR HAS PUSHED THE PROPOSAL ALONG, AND IT GOES TO A FINAL VOTE IN THE SENATE ON WEDNESDAY.
IN THREE WEEKS TIME, THE PRESIDENT WILL BE STEPPING DOWN AND GIVING WAY TO MEXICO'S FIRST FEMALE AND FIRST JEWISH LEADER, CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM.
ALTHOUGH SUPPORTIVE OF HER PREDECESSOR, SHE COULD POTENTIALLY INHERENT A COUNTRY IN FLUX.
WHATEVER HAPPENS IN MEXICO COULD HAVE DIRECT EFFECTS ON ITS NORTHERN NEIGHBOR.
AND WITH IMMIGRATION AMONG THE TOP CONCERNS FOR AMERICAN VOTERS AS THE NOVEMBER PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION APPROACHES, WHAT WILL BE THE FALLOUT?
JOINING ME NOW IS NPR'S CORRESPONDENT EYDER PERALTA FROM THE SENATE IN MEXICO CITY.
EYDER, WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
YOU'VE BEEN COVERING THIS PROCESS SINCE THE BEGINNING, AND OBVIOUSLY THESE PROTESTS HAVE ONLY BEEN GROWING.
FOR THOSE AROUND THE WORLD THAT ARE JUST READING AND LEARNING MORE ABOUT THESE REFORMS, EXPLAIN WHAT THEY ENTAIL, EXACTLY.
>> SO, THE REFORMS -- THIS IS AN EPIC FIGHT BETWEEN BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.
AND BASICALLY, THE REFORM DOES A LOT OF THINGS.
IT LOWERS THE SALARIES OF JUDGES, IT PUTS IN A KIND OF -- A COMMITTEE THAT WILL OVERSEE THE JUDICIARY, WHICH IS APPOINTED BY THE EXECUTIVE, BUT THE HUGE CHANGE HERE IS THAT JUDGES HERE IN MEXICO WILL NOW -- OR, IF THIS PASSES, WILL BE E LEGGED, AND THE WAY IT WORKS RIGHT NOW, JUDGES HAVE TO WORK THEIR WAY UP THE JUDICIARY, THEY HAVE TO PASS EXAMS.
THEY HAVE TO FIRST WORK IN THE DISTRICT COURTS AND THEN THEY MOVE THEIR WAY UP TO BE APPOINTED TO JUDGES.
THAT CAN TAKE DECADES.
THIS REFORM LOWERS THE AGE LIMITS FOR JUDGES, IT ALSO MEANS THAT, SAY A JUDGE ON THE SUPREME COURT WILL NOW JUST HAVE TO RUN FOR OFFICE, AND THAT IS HOW MEXICO WILL STACK ITS FEDERAL JUDICIARY.
>> SO, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THE PARTY HAS A NEAR SUPER MAJORITY IN THE UPPER CHAMBER, IS THIS LIKELY TO BE THE RULE OF LAW WITHIN A MATTER OF WEEKS?
>> THE RULING PARTY SAYS THEY HAVE THE VOTES, BUT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING BEHIND ME IS AN EFFORT TO TRY AND CONVINCE 43 SENATORS TO VOTE AGAINST THIS REFORM, AND THAT'S WHAT IT WILL TAKE.
WHAT WE UNDERSTAND IS THAT THE RULING PARTY IS MISSING ONE VOTE AND THIS MORNING, THEY ARE SAYING THAT THEY HAVE THAT VOTE.
SO, WHAT THEY'RE SAYING IS THAT AT LATEST MID-MONTH THIS WILL BE THE LAW OF THE LAND.
>> JUST TO GIVE OUR VIEWERS SOME IN DEPTH TO WHAT YOU'VE ALREADY LAID OUT, UNDER THE CURRENT SYSTEM, THE JUDGES AND COURT SECRETARIES, THEY BASICALLY HAVE TO WORK THEIR WAY UP TO BEING APPOINTED.
WITH THESE NEW PROPOSED CHANGES, VIRTUALLY ANYONE WITH A SIMPLE LAW DEGREE AND A FEW YEARS OF EXPERIENCE IN QUOTE UNQUOTE JUDICIAL AREAS CAN BECOME JUDGES THROUGH POPULAR VOTE.
IN FACT, IF TOO MANY CANDIDATES REGISTER TO RUN, THE FINAL CONTENDERS WOULD ESSENTIALLY BE CHOSEN BY PUTTING THEIR NAMES INTO A HAT AND DRAWING OUT OF THAT HAT.
IF AMLO IS SAYING THAT THIS IS NECESSARY, TO ADDRESS CORRUPTION AND OTHER CONCERNS, WHICH ARE LEGITIMATE ISSUES, HOW IS THIS THE REMEDY?
WHAT IS HIS JUSTIFICATION FOR THIS PROCESS SPECIFICALLY?
>> LOOK, I THINK THE WAY THE PRESIDENT DESCRIBES THIS REFORM, OR, DESCRIBES THE JUDICIARY, IS THAT IT'S ROTTEN BEYOND ANY SORT OF FUNCTIONING, RIGHT?
YOU KNOW, HE SAYS THAT RIGHT NOW, BIG BUSINESSES AND THE CARTELS, ORGANIZED CRIME, CONTROL THIS JUDICIARY, AND WHAT HE SAYS IS THAT THIS REFORM WOULD MAKE JUDGES ACCOUNTABLE TO THE MEXICAN PEOPLE.
I THINK ONE THING THAT'S ACTUALLY VERY IMPORTANT TO NOTE IS THAT THIS IS WHAT THE PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN THAT WE JUST HAD IN MEXICO WAS ALL ABOUT.
CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, WHO IS PRESIDENT LOPEZ OEB ARE DOOR'S PROTEGE, SHE EXPLAINED TO THE MEXICAN PEOPLE, LOOK, WE NEED TO REFORM THE JUDICIARY, AND THIS IS THE WAY WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.
SHE EXPLAINED THIS REFORM BIT BY BIT, AND ONCE THE ELECTIONS CAME, THE MEXICAN PEOPLE GAVE THE PARTY A SUPER MAJORITY.
AND SO, WHAT THE PRESIDENT IS SAYING RIGHT NOW IS, THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT THE MEXICAN PEOPLE VOTED FOR.
THE JUDICIARY, ON THE OTHER HAND, SAYS THAT THIS WILL MAKE THE JUDICIARY EVEN MORE CORRUPT, AND WHAT IS MORE, I THINK, WHEN YOU TALK TO CONSTITUTIONAL EXPERTS, WHAT THEY SAY IS THAT REALLY NO LIBERAL DEMOCRACY DOES THIS.
BOLIVIA DID IT AND IT DIDN'T WORK.
MEXICO ACTUALLY USED TO DO IT, IN 1857, AND THEN WHEN THE FRAMERS WROTE A NEW CONSTITUTION IN 1915, THEY SAID THAT WHAT ELECTING JUDGES DID, IT PUT THE JUDGES -- OR -- THAT IT PUT THE EXECUTIVE IN CONTROL OF THE JUDGES, AND THEY CALLED IT AN ABERRATION, IN 1917, AND THEY STARTED SELECTING JUDGES MUCH THE SAME WAY THAT THE UNITED STATES APPOINTS JUDGES.
>> AND IT'S NOT JUST LEGAL SCHOLARS AND ACADEMICS AND INTELLECTUALS WHO ARE WARNING ABOUT THE OUTCOME OF THIS NEW LAW.
IT IS BUSINESS LEADERS, IT'S THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, IT'S CANADA, IT'S THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, IT'S HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH.
HOW MUCH OF THIS REFLECTS ON AMLO'S PROTECTIONIST POLICIES AND TENDENCIES, AND SPECIFICALLY, AS IT RESULTS, TO INTERNATIONAL BUSINESSES IN MEXICO?
>> LOOK, I THINK WE OFTEN FORGET THAT MEXICO, THE UNITED STATES, AND CANADA ARE THE BIGGEST MARKET IN THE WORLD, AND THEY HAVE A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT, AND WHAT THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA ARE SAYING, IN FACT, WHAT SOME OF THE JUDICIARY WORKERS BEHIND ME ARE SAYING, IS THAT PASSING THIS REFORM WOULD PUT INTO JEOPARDY THAT VERY IMPORTANT FREE TRADE AGREEMENT.
WHY?
BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE TRADE DISPUTES, A LOT OF THESE BUSINESS DISPUTES, ARE DECIDED BY THE MEXICAN FEDERAL JUDICIARY.
AND AT THE MOMENT, BIG BUSINESSES HAVE -- THEY ACTUALLY HAVE TRUST IN THE JUDICIARY, AND THEY SAY THAT THIS REFORM WILL CAUSE CHAOS.
WE SHOULD NOTE THAT IF THIS REFORM PASSES, IT'S GOING TO TAKE A FEW YEARS FOR US TO SEE THE CONSEQUENCES OF IT.
THE -- THE MEMBERS OF THE MEXICAN SUPREME COURT WILL GET ELECTED NEXT YEAR, IF THIS REFORM PASSES, AND THEN IT STARTS THE JUDGES FROM THE OTHER LOWER COURTS WILL BEGIN TO BE REPLACED AFTERWARDS.
SO, IT'S GOING TO TAKE MANY, MANY YEARS FOR US TO SEE THE AFFECTS OF THIS REFORM IF IT PASSES.
>> IF IT PASSES.
THERE'S A HIGH LIKELIHOOD AT THIS POINT THAT IT WILL INDEED.
WE ALSO KNOW THAT AMONG THOSE PROTESTING ARE JUDGES IN MEXICO THEMSELVES.
EYDER PERALTA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.
REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR REPORTING.
>>> AND FOR MORE ON THESE REFORMS, LET'S BRING IN MEXICO'S FORMER FOREIGN MINISTER JORGE CASTANEDA.
WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
SO, YOU HEARD THE CONVERSATION WE JUST HAD WITH EYDER.
EVERY NEW ELECTED GOVERNMENT HAS THEIR OWN VIEWS ON POLITICAL ISSUES, AND SO, MY FIRST QUESTION TO YOU IS, IT'S ONE THING TO DISAGREE WITH CERTAIN POLICIES, I KNOW THAT YOU VIEW THIS AS A THREAT TO THE COUNTRY AT LARGE.
EXPLAIN EXACTLY HOW.
>> WELL, FOR TWO REASONS, AND THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.
THE FIRST IS THAT ELECTING JUDGES IS A LOUSY IDEA.
IF ANYBODY THOUGHT IT WOULD A GOOD IDEA, IT WOULD BE DONE IN MANY, MANY COUNTRIES.
THERE ARE SOME STATES IN THE UNITED STATES THAT DO SO, BUT ALL FEDERAL JUSTICES OR JUDGES IN THE UNITED STATES ARE APPOINTED AND THEN RATIFIED BY ONE BRANCH OR ANOTHER, AND, OF COURSE, THE SUPREME COURT IN THE UNITED STATES IS APPOINTED BY THE PRESIDENT AND RATIFIED BY THE SENATE.
IT'S A LOUSY IDEA, NO OTHER COUNTRY DOES IT, EXCEPT BOLIVIA, AS EYDER SAID, AND THAT HASN'T WORKED OUT AT ALL.
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, BIANNA, THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE WAY THE CANDIDATES FOR THE SUPREME COURT WILL BE NOMINATED IS THROUGH COMMITTEES MADE UP FROM BOTH HOUSES OF CONGRESS, THE EXECUTIVE, AND THE JUDICIAL BRANCH, WHICH MEANS THE DECK WILL BE STACKED, THE DICE WILL BE LOADED.
ONLY CANDIDATES THAT ARE CLOSE TO THE GOVERNING PARTY, WHICH HAS SUPER MAJORITIES, AS YOU SAID, IN BOTH HOUSES, AND, OF COURSE, THE EXECUTIVE WITH THE NEW PRESIDENT, AND THROUGH THE EXISTING SUPREME COURT AND OTHER MECHANISMS, THEY WILL BE ABLE TO BASICALLY APPOINT THE NEW SUPREME COURT, WHICH THEN VOTERS WILL, IN FACT, RATIFY, INSTEAD OF REALLY CHOOSING.
SO, WHAT THIS MEANS, IT'S THE END OF AN INDEPENDENT JUDICIARY IN MEXICO.
NOW, THIS JUDICIARY HAS BEEN CORRUPT, IT IS TRUE.
IT'S INEFFECTIVE.
VERY FEW CRIMES IN MEXICO ARE EITHER PUNISHED OR SENTENCED.
ALL OF THAT IS TRUE.
JUDICIAL REFORM IS NECESSARY IN MEXICO.
BUT THIS IS THE WORST POSSIBLE JUDICIAL REFORM, MAINLY BECAUSE IT DOES AWAY WITH THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY BRANCH.
>> SO, WHAT IS THE MORE EFFECTIVE JUDICIAL REFORM, IN YOUR VIEW?
AND I'LL FOLLOW THAT UP WITH, IS IT YOUR VIEW THAT AMLO IS USING THIS JUSTIFICATION AS A RUSE TO PUT FORWARD HIS OWN PROTECTIONIST POLICIES, OR DO YOU THINK THAT IN HIS MIND, HE ACTUALLY DOES THINK THAT HE'S PROPOSED SOLID REFORMS?
>> WELL, ON THE FIRST QUESTION, THE POINT IS THAT MOST PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE MEXICAN JUDICIARY SYSTEM IS THE PUBLIC PROSECUTORS THEMSELVES, AT A FEDERAL LEVEL AND AT A STATE LEVEL.
WHAT THE UNITED STATES ARE CALLED DISTRICT ATTORNEYS, STATE ATTORNEYS, OR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL AND THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE.
THAT'S WHERE THE PROBLEM REALLY BEGINS.
SO, THERE ARE REFORMS THAT SHOULD BE CARRIED OUT WITH JUDGES AND PERHAPS EVEN THE SUPREME COURT, ALTHOUGH IT WAS ALREADY REFORMED IN 1994, AND MOST EXCEPT AMLO, OF COURSE, BELIEVE IT'S DONE A GOOD JOB.
THE MAIN PART HERE, THIS IS PART OF AN AUTHORITARIAN POWER GRAB BY AMLO HIMSELF.
THIS IS NOT THE ONLY REFORM THAT IS UP FOR APPROVAL.
THIS MONTH IN CONGRESS, OF ABOUT OCTOBER 1st.
FOR EXAMPLE, THERE IS ALREADY A BILL PUT FORWARD WITH CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGES TO ELIMINATE MEXICO'S INDEPENDENT OR AUTONOMOUS AGENCY, THE FEDERAL COMPETITION COMMISSION, THE NATIONAL TRANSPARENCY AGENCY, WHICH IS FREEDOM OF INFORMATION.
THE -- FEDERAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS AGENCY, AND SEVERAL MORE.
HE'S ELIMINATING ALL OF THOSE.
HE HAS ALSO SUGGESTED HE WANTS TO ELIMINATE THE FEDERAL ELECTION COUNCIL, WHICH WILL BE THEN INCORPORATED INTO THE GOVERNMENT.
EVERYTHING THAT MEXICO HAS DONE IN TERMS OF DEMOCRATIZING THE COUNTRY OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS, HE WANTS TO ROLL BACK.
AND HE ALSO WANTS, FOR EXAMPLE, TO PUT AN END TO PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION, WHICH WOULD LEAD TO HIS PARTY NOT JUST HAVING A SUPER MAJORITY, BUT PRACTICALLY THE TOTALITY OF MEMBERS OF CONGRESS IN THE LOWER HOUSE.
SO, THIS IS NOT JUST JUDICIAL REFORM.
IT'S PART OF A BROADER PACKAGE, WHICH CLEARLY INDICATES AN AUTHORITARIAN DRIFT IN MEXICO.
>> AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS HAS RECEIVED PUSH-BACK FROM SCHOLARS AND ALSO FROM FOREIGN GOVERNMENTS, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES.
I'D LIKE TO PLAY SOUND FOR YOU FROM THE U.S.
AMBASSADOR -- WE DO NOT HAVE SOUND, BUT I'D LIKE TO SAY FOR YOU WHAT HIS RESPONSE HAS BEEN, BECAUSE HE'S RARELY SPOKEN OUT ON INTERNAL DOMESTIC POLICY ISSUES WITHIN MEXICO, BUT HERE'S WHAT HE SAID ABOUT THE JUDICIAL REFORMS.
HE SAID BASED ON MY LIFELONG EXPERIENCE SUPPORTING THE RULE OF LAW, I BELIEVE POPULAR DIRECT ELECT OF ELECTIONS IS A MAJOR RISK OF FUNCTIONING MEXICO'S DEMOCRACY.
WHAT IMPACT OR SIGNIFICANCE OF A U.S.
AMBASSADOR SPEAKING OUT ON THIS SPECIFIC ISSUE, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE, IF AT ALL?
>> IT HAD A MAJOR IMPACT, BIANNA, FOR TWO REASONS.
ONE, BECAUSE AMBASSADOR SALAZAR HAS REALLY SPOKEN OUT OR CRITICIZED AMLO.
HE'S HAD A VERY CLOSE, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM, AND MANY PEOPLE HAVE SAID, INCLUDING ARTICLES IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES" THAT HE WAS CLOSER, PERHAPS, 0 THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT THAN TO THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT THAT HE REPRESENTS IN MEXICO.
BUT SECONDLY, BECAUSE THIS IS THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES SPEAKING, AND IT'S NOT THE PERSONAL OPINION OF AMBASSADOR SALAZAR, AS RESPECTFUL AS THAT MAY BE.
THIS IS THE OPINION OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT, WHICH HAS A FREE TRADE AGREEMENT CALLED USMCA WITH MEXICO AND WITH CANADA.
AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES, AS WELL AS SEVERAL CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS IN THE UNITED STATES, AS WELL AS MANY BUSINESSES IN THE UNITED STATES, SEEM TO CONSIDER THAT THE ELIMINATION OF THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE JUDICIARY BRANCH IN MEXICO WILL BE A VIOLATION OF THIS TREATY, WHICH IS UP FOR REVIEW IN 2026.
SO, THIS IS NOT JUST AN IDLE COMMENT MADE BY THE AMBASSADOR THIS IS THE OFFICIAL POSITION OF THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, ON AN ISSUE ON WHICH IT HAS SOMETHING TO SAY, BECAUSE OF THE EXISTENCE OF THIS TREATY, AND, OF COURSE, THE FACT THAT MEXICO IS THE UNITED STATES' MAIN TRADING PARTNER IN THE WORLD.
>> YEAH, AND USMCA, WE SHOULD NOTE, WAS ENACTED DURING THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION, THAT WITHSTANDING, NOT WITHSTANDING, DO YOU THINK THERE COULD BE A CALCULATION ON AMLO'S PART THAT IF FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP IS RE-ELECTED, THAT PERHAPS HE WOULDN'T VIEW THIS PARTICULAR LAW AS NEGATIVELY AS THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION DOES?
>> WELL, HE MIGHT THINK THAT, BUT FIRST OF ALL, I THINK IT'S VERY DIFFICULT TO PREDICT WHAT FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP BELIEVES ABOUT THIS LAW OR THAT LAW.
I THINK IF ANYTHING, WHETHER IT'S A VIRTUE OR A VICE, IT'S UP FOR AMERICANS TO DECIDE.
UNPREDICTABILITY IS ONE OF FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S STRONG SUITS.
>> YES, TO ANY ISSUE.
>> I WOULDN'T BE BETTING ON THAT EITHER WAY, BUT I THINK WHAT IS TRUE IS THAT REGARDLESS OF WHO IS ELECTED IN NOVEMBER IN THE UNITED STATES, THESE ARE VERY IMPORTANT INTERESTS THAT ARE INVOLVED IN MEXICO, AND THE JUDICIARY BRANCH IS A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF USMCA, BECAUSE A LARGE NUMBER OF ISSUES, OF DISPUTES THAT EXIST NORMALLY BETWEEN COUNTRIES, BETWEEN BUSINESSES, ET CETERA, ARE SETTLED IN THE DOMESTIC COURTS OF EACH COUNTRY.
MEXICAN DISAGREEMENTS ARE SETTLED IN U.S. COURTS OCCASIONALLY.
CANADIAN COURTS AND SO FORTH.
AND MANY AMERICAN DISPUTES ARE SETTLED IN MEXICAN COURTS.
IF THOSE MEXICAN COURTS ARE CONSIDERED NOT TO BE RELIABLE, NOT TO BE TRANSPARENT, NOT TO BE INDEPENDENT, TO BE INCREASINGLY CORRUPT AND CAPTURED BY ORGANIZED CRIME, BY THE WAY, AS AMBASSADOR SALAZAR HIMSELF SAID, THAT IS A PROBLEM FOR TRADE, IT'S A PROBLEM FOR FINANCE, IT'S A PROBLEM FOR ALL AMERICANS, AND IT'S A PROBLEM FOR THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT.
>> IF THIS LAW IS ENACTED, AND AS WE KNOW, CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, WHO IS AMLO'S PROTEGE, WILL BE WARN IN OCTOBER 1st, HOW DOES SHE NAVIGATE THIS ISSUE?
SHE HAS BEEN CLOSELY ALIGNED WITH AMLO, BUT NOT AS CLOSE AS HE HAS BEEN ON THIS -- ON THIS ISSUE ITSELF.
DO YOU SEE THAT SHE HAS ANY POTENTIAL WIGGLE ROOM AROUND IT, OR NO?
>> WELL, THE FIRST THING IS THAT SHE MUST BE VERY CONFUSED BY THIS INSISTENCE ON AMLO'S PART IN HAVING THIS RATIFIED THIS MONTH OF SEPTEMBER, INSTEAD OF GIVING HER THE CHANCE AS OF OCTOBER 1st TO PERHAPS MODIFY IT, WEAKEN IT, DILUTE IT, POSTPONE IT, SUSPEND IT, WHATEVER.
HE IS TRYING TO RAM THIS THROUGH IN THE LAST COUPLE OF WEEKS OF HIS PRESIDENCY, BEFORE SHE COMES TO OFFICE.
SO, THAT'S A PROBLEM FOR HER.
SECONDLY, THIS IS ALREADY HAVING A DISCOURAGING EFFECT ON FOREIGN INVESTMENT IN MEXICO.
THE PESO HAS WEAKENED SEVERELY OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF MONTHS.
THERE IS MONEY LEAVING MEXICO AS WE SPEAK, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT SHE WOULD NOT HAVE WANTED TO BEGIN WITH HER ADMINISTRATION WITH.
NOW, HOW MUCH WIGGLE ROOM DOES SHE HAVE?
VERY LITTLE, IF THIS IS ACTUALLY APPROVED ON WEDNESDAY, AS EYDER SAID, AND AS YOU HAVE MENTIONED, BIANNA.
IF IT IS, THIS IS THE LAW OF THE LAND, BUT IT'S NOT JUST ANY LAW, IT'S THE CONSTITUTION.
THESE ARE CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS, WHICH WILL BE VERY DIFFICULT TO REVERSE IF THEY ARE PASSED ON WEDNESDAY.
AND SHE WILL NOT NECESSARILY BE VERY COMFORTABLE WITH THEM, BUT SHE'LL BE STUCK WITH THEM EITHER WAY.
>> LET ME ASK YOU ABOUT ANOTHER DEMOCRATIC CRISIS UNFOLDING IN THE REGION, AND THAT IS IN VENEZUELA, WHERE THE OPPOSITION LEADER EDMUNDO GONZALEZ HAS NOW FLED TO SPAIN, SEEKING ASYLUM.
EVERY ANALYST THAT WE'VE SPOKEN WITH HAS SAID THIS REALLY PUTS THE UNITED STATES, OF ALL WESTERN COUNTRIES, IN A BOX IN TERMS OF HOW IT RESPONDS NOW, BUT WHAT -- I'M CURIOUS, WHAT, IF ANYTHING, SHOULD BE MEXICO'S PUBLIC STANCE TO THIS?
>> WELL, I WOULD LIKE MEXICO TO HAVE A VERY CRITICAL STANCE REGARDING THE ELECTIONS AND THE WAY PRESIDENT MADURO HAS MANIPULATED THEM, IN A FRAUDULENT MANNER.
UNFORTUNATELY, MEXICO HAS NOT DONE THAT.
I WISH MEXICO HAD A POSITION SIMILAR TO THAT OF THE UNITED STATES, OF THE EUROPEAN UNION, OR EVEN OF LEFTIST PRESIDENT BOARIC IN CHILE.
IT'S NOT JUST THE CONSERVATIVE PRESIDENTS IN LATIN AMERICA WHO HAVE BEEN VERY CRITICAL OF THE ELECTION.
I WISH MEXICO WOULD.
AND MEXICO CARRIES A GREAT DEAL OF WEIGHT IN LATIN AMERICA IN GENERAL, BECAUSE OF ITS SIDE AND ITS ECONOMY, BUT ALSO BECAUSE IT HAS A TRADITION OF FOREIGN POLICY OF ESPOUSING NOBLE CAUSES.
AND CERTAINLY, THIS IS A NOBLE CAUSE.
THAT ELECTION WAS STOLEN BY NICOLAS MADURO FROM EDMUNDO GONZALEZ.
A LARGE NUMBER OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES AND SPECIALIST UNITED NATIONS, THE CARTER CENTER, HAVE ALL SAID SO.
SO, MEXICO SHOULD FOLLOW CHILE AND BE AS CRITICAL AS THE ELECTIONS.
>> JORGE CASTANEDA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.
GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
>> THANK YOU, BIANNA.
>>> WELL, ANOTHER ISSUE PLAGUING MEXICO IS GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE.
THE U.N. SAYS TEN WOMEN ARE KILLED EVERY SINGLE DAY THERE, BUT THIS CRISIS IS NOT UNIQUE TO MEXICO.
IT IMPACTS MILLIONS OF PEOPLE AROUND THE GLOBE.
JUST BEFORE THE PARALYMPICS CAME TO A CLOSE, ATHLETES AND SPECTATORS PAID TRIBUTE TO OLYMPIC MARATHONER REBECCA CHEPTEGEI.
THE UGANDAN RUNNER HAS JUST RETURNED AFTER COMPETING IN THE PARIS OLYMPICS LAST MONTH WHEN THE ATTACK HAPPENED.
HER DEATH HAS BROUGHT RENEWED ATTENTION TO THE PROBLEM OF VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN.
CORRESPONDENT AMANDA DAVIES HAS MORE.
>> Reporter: A GRIEVING MOTHER STRUGGLING TO COME TO TERMS WITH THE UNTHINKABLE.
>> Translator: SHE WAS A GOOD CHILD, VERY POLITE, AND SHE DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF ISSUES.
I JUST DON'T KNOW.
>> Reporter: ACCORDING TO POLICE, REBECCA CHEPTEGEI WAS ATTACKED BY HER BOYFRIEND, WHO DOUSED THE 33-YEAR-OLD IN PETROL BEFORE SETTING HER ALIGHT AT THEIR HOME.
SADLY, THOUGH, THIS IS NOT AN ISOLATED INCIDENT.
JUST ANOTHER THAT HIGHLIGHTS THE ONGOING ISSUE OF GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE AND FEMICIDE IN KENYA.
ACCORDING TO GOVERNMENT DATA FROM 2022, 34% OF WOMEN IN THE COUNTRY REPORT HAVING EXPERIENCED PHYSICAL VIOLENCE AFTER THE AGE OF 15, COMMITTED BY ANYONE, WITH MARRIED WOMEN AT PARTICULAR RISK.
AND A NUMBER OF ATHLETES HAVE BEEN VICTIMS.
>> THERE WAS GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE.
>> Reporter: JOE ANNE COMPETED AGAINST CHEPTEGEI AND COFOUNDED A GROUP AFTER THE DEATH OF ANOTHER KENYAN ATHLETE.
>> I MISS MY FRIEND.
EVERY TIME YOU COULD SEE HER, SHE WAS JUST SMILING.
WE FELT LIKE IT WAS A WAKEUP CALL FOR EVERYONE.
>> Reporter: THE GROUP PROVIDES COUNSELING AND SUPPORT, AND AIMS TO EDUCATE AND EMPOWER YOUNG WOMEN IN THE REGION.
>> AS MORE PEOPLE CAME TO US AND REPORT ISSUES, WE REALIZED THAT IT IS A PANDEMIC THAT IS AFFECTING EVERYBODY IN OUR COMMUNITY AND ESPECIALLY -- THE WHOLE COUNTRY.
>> THIS IS ABOUT SMALL COMMUNITY.
IT HAS AROUND 10,000 PEOPLE.
ABOUT 2,000 OF THEM ARE ATHLETES, AND WHAT HAPPENS IS, YOUNG GIRLS COME HERE AFTER SCHOOL, AFTER HIGH SCHOOL OR AFTER PREMIER SCHOOL AND THEY END UP BEING TAKEN ADVANTAGE OF.
WE HAD ABOUT GBV ALL OVER THE WORLD, BUT SETTING UP THE FOUNDATION, MORE WOMEN CAME UP, SPEAKING UP ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH IN THEIR LIVES.
NOT ONLY ATHLETES, BUT ALSO THE COMMUNITY.
>> Reporter: AMNESTY INTERNATIONAL KENYA LAUNCHED A CAMPAIGN IN JANUARY, CALLING FOR THE COUNTRY'S GOVERNMENT TO PRIORITIZE THE INVESTIGATION AND PROSECUTION OF FEMICIDE CASES.
A CAMPAIGN THAT GOES ON, BUT SADLY, NOT ENOUGH TO PREVENT THE DEATH OF REBECCA CHEPTEGEI, AS HER FAMILY AND THE DISTANCE RUNNING COMMUNITY COME TO TERMS WITH ANOTHER OF THEIR MEMBERS TAKEN TOO SOON.
>> A DEVASTATING LOSS AND A STARK REMINDER THAT MORE MUST BE DONE TO TACKLE GENDER-BASED VIOLENCE.
THE CITY WILL HONOR THE MEMORY OF REBECCA CHEPTEGEI BY NAMING A SPORTS FACILITY AFTER HER.
THE FRENCH CAPITAL SUMMER OF SPORT CAME TO AN END OVER THE WEEKEND, WITH A POWERFUL PARALYMPICS CLOSING CEREMONY.
ONE OF THE INSPIRING ATHLETES BRINGING HOME GOLD IS OKSANA MASTERS, WHO ADDS TWO MEDALS TO HER COLLECTION, PUTTING HER TOTAL AT 19 ACROSS THE SUMMER AND WINTER PARALYMPICS.
BORN IN UKRAINE WITH BIRTH DEFECTS, THOUGHT TO BE LINKED TO THE CHERYL NOBLE DISASTER, MASTERS WAS ADOPTED AND MOVED TO AMERICA, WHERE SPORT ALLOWED HER TO HEAL FROM YEARS OF TRAUMA.
I CAUGHT UP WITH MASTERS FROM PARIS JUST AFTER SHE SCORED TWO GOLDS IN TWO DAYS.
OKSANA, WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM.
LOOK AT YOU.
THE TWO GOLD MEDALS LOOK AMAZING ON YOU.
QUITE AN ACCOMPLISHMENT.
CONGRATULATIONS.
TALK ABOUT THIS INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE THAT YOU'VE HAD IN THE PARIS GAMES.
>> OH, MY GOSH.
THIS HAS JUST BEFORE -- I FEEL LIKE I'VE JUST BEEN LIVING ON CLOUD NINE.
THERE WAS SO MUCH ANXIETY LEADING UP TO PARIS, AND SO MUCH SELF-DOUBT, I WAS FREAKING OUT ON THE START LINE, DIDN'T FEEL LIKE I WAS READY, AND THEN MY TEAM JUST SAID, YOU KNOW WHAT TO DO.
GOLD MEDALS AT ALL.
I JUST WAS HOPING FOR AT LEAST ONE IN A TIME TRIAL, AND THIS IS JUST -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED, BUT I EXCEEDED MY EXPECTATIONS.
>> THIS IS YOUR SECOND GOLD MEDAL IN PARIS THAT YOU JUST WON IN THE H-5 ROAD RACE.
AND YOU TALK ABOUT SELF-DOUBT, I'M WONDERING IF THAT STEMMED FROM THE SETBACK YOU HAD RIGHT BEFORE THESE GAMES.
YOU BROKE YOUR FINGER, AND THAT IS A CRITICAL FINGER FOR YOU, ONE OF YOUR DOMINANTS, IN THE SPORT, BACK IN CANADA.
CAN YOU WALK US THROUGH WHAT HAPPENED AND HOW YOU HELPED SET YOURSELF RIGHT TO ULTIMATELY WIN THE GOLD?
>> YEAH, I DEFINITELY -- EVEN IF I HAD LEGS, I WOULD BE A KLUTZ.
I WAS IN A QUALIFYING RACE, I FELL, AND DAMAGED MY HAND REALLY HARD AND I KNEW THE PAIN WAS NOT GOOD, AND IT WAS BAD, BUT I NEEDED TO FINISH THAT RACE.
AND BY ME FINISHING THAT RACE MEANT REALLY DAMAGING IT, AND I HAD THREE SURGERIES THAT KIND OF WERE NOT STICKING, AND MAKING THE REPAIR REALLY CHALLENGING.
AND THE -- IT WAS MY MIDDLE FINGER, AND THAT'S THE STRONGEST FINGER I HAVE, AND BECAUSE OF MY LACK OF MOBILITY AND DEXTERITY IN MY HANDS, IT'S MY THUMB, BECAUSE I DO NOT HAVE IT.
SO, WHEN I BREAK, IT IS THAT FINGER THAT I BREAK.
AND I HAD TO RELEARN HOW TO NOT ONLY SKI, BUT SPECIFICALLY PARIS, GET READY FOR THAT, AND REDESIGN A GRIP WHERE I WOULD BE ABLE TO BREAK WITH MY PINKY INSTEAD, AND I HONESTLY -- I'M SO LUCKY, BECAUSE I HAD MY PARTNERS WITH TOYOTA AND TRD THAT RE -- THAT CUSTOMIZED A GRIP FOR ME, AND SPENT ALL THE TIME OF TRYING TO MAKE IT FIT LIKE A GLOVE, WHERE I'M NOT FOCUSING AND HAVING CONFIDENCE IN MY EQUIPMENT, BECAUSE THIS COURSE AND THE ROAD RACE ENDED UP BEING SO SKETCHY, BECAUSE IT'S VERY TECHNICAL, A LOT OF STEEP, 15% DOWNHILL GRADES, AND IT WAS RAINING ON TOP OF IT, SO -- I JUST DID NOT -- THAT'S WHY I DID NOT THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE, AND I AM JUST SO THANKFUL TO HAVE AN INCREDIBLE TEAM AROUND ME TO HELP ME BE THE BEST ATHLETE I CAN.
>> AND DESPITE ALL OF THOSE SETBACKS AND HURDLES, IT'S YES, PERHAPS SOME LUCK, BUT IT IS YOUR GRIT, IT IS YOUR DETERMINATION, IT IS YOUR SHEER JUST SPORTSMANSHIP AND TALENT THAT IS CLEARLY BEEN YOUR DRIVING FORCE THROUGHOUT YOUR CAREER AS AN ATHLETE.
AND LET'S JUST REMIND OUR VIEWERS OF HOW UNIQUE YOU REALLY ARE, IN THE SENSE THAT YOU PLAYED OVER FOUR SUMMER AND WINTER DISCIPLINES, SO, IT'S NOT JUST ONE SPORT THAT YOU'RE GREAT AT, YOU STARTED AT ROWING, SKIING, AND NOW CYCLING, AS WELL.
DO YOU HAVE A FAVORITE?
>> AH -- WELL, IF I WAS PICKING MY FAVORITE BASED ON TAN LINES, IT WOULD BE ROWING, FOR SURE, NOT CYCLING.
I'M ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT I'M HIKING UP MY JERSEY WHEN I'M FOUR HOURS INTO MY RIDE OF MAKING SURE THE TAN LINES FADE AND I DON'T HAVE THAT STRONG JERSEY LINE.
BUT IT'S ALSO DIFFERENT, I LOVE THEM ALL, HONESTLY.
IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY, BUT I THINK BECAUSE ROWING WAS MY FIRST SPORT AND WHERE I LEARNED ABOUT PARALYMPICS AND KIND OF STARTED SEEING POWER WITHIN MY BODY INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON WHAT I DIDN'T HAVE, IT KIND OF MY FAVORITE.
>> AND THE POWER IN YOUR BODY, LET'S JUST TALK -- >> ACTUALLY, IT IS MY FAVORITE.
>> IT IS YOUR FAVORITE, OKAY, YOU'RE ON THE RECORD NOW.
WE HAVE YOU ON TAPE.
LET'S TALK ABOUT YOUR EXTRAORDINARY STORY.
I WAS FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO SPEAK WITH YOU A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, WHEN YOU WROTE YOUR BOOK, "THE HARD PARTS."
YOU WERE BORN IN UKRAINE, OBVIOUSLY YOU'VE HAD SEVERAL PHYSICAL SETBACKS AS A CHILD THERE, LARGELY ATTRIBUTED TO WHAT MANY BELIEVE WAS THE -- THE TRAGEDY OF THE CHERNOBYL NUCLEAR INCIDENT.
YOU WERE RAISED IN AN ORPHANAGE UP UNTIL THE AGE OF 7, WHEN YOU WERE ADOPTED.
BY YOUR MOTHER AND BROUGHT TO THE UNITED STATES.
YOU WERE BORN WITH SIX TOES, WEBBED FINGERS, NO THUMBS AND LEGS THAT WERE MISSING WEIGHT BEARING BONES.
ULTIMATELY, YOU HAD THEM AMPUTATED IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND IT WAS REALLY SPORTS THAT REALLY HELPED YOU OVERCOME SO MANY OF THESE EMOTIONAL AND PHYSICAL SETBACKS TO BRING YOU TO WHERE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW.
TALK TO US ABOUT HOW YOU WERE INTRODUCED TO SPORTS.
>> YEAH, I MEAN, SPORTS HAS BEEN A HUGE, INSTRUMENTAL, LIKE, IT'S JUST HUGE IN MY LIFE, AND IT'S HELPED ME NOT ONLY GET STRONGER AND HEALTHIER, BUT HELPED ME EMOTIONALLY HEAL THE WOUNDS THAT PEOPLE DO NOT SEE AND THE SCARS THEY DO NOT SEE.
AND ALSO START REGAINING POWER AND STRENGTH WITHIN MY BODY.
AFTER THE AMPUTATIONS.
I DEFINITELY DID NOT THINK -- I NEVER SAW ANYONE LIKE ME BEING AN ATHLETE AT ALL, SO, I DIDN'T THINK IT WAS POSSIBLE, AND I JUST -- I DON'T -- LIKE, I'M JUST SO LUCKY THAT MY MOM WAS -- WHEN WE MOVED FROM BUFFALO TO LOUISVILLE, KENTUCKY, SHE SPRO INTRODUCED ME TO THE WORLD OF SPORTS.
AND SHE SAVED MY LIFE ADOPTING ME, SAVING MY LIFE THERE, AND SHE ALSO SAVED MY LIFE BY OPENING THE DOOR OF SPORTS.
AND THEN SPORTS WAS, I FEEL LIKE, THE THING THAT SAVED MY LIFE AND GAVE ME THAT PURPOSE AND BELONGING, AN IDENTITY OF WHO I AM AND I BELONG IN THIS WORLD, AND THEN THAT KIND OF TRANSFORMED TO HELPING THAT NEXT GENERATION, OR, THAT YOUNG LITTLE GIRL WHO ALSO FEELS LOST AND DOESN'T KNOW WHERE HER PLACE IS IN THIS WORLD, BASED ON THE THINGS THAT -- DISABILITIES VISIBLE OR NOT VISIBILITY.
I JUST CAN'T IMAGINE LIFE WITHOUT SPORTS.
ROWING WAS THE FIRST ONE, WHERE I STARTED PROCESSING EVERYTHING FOR ME.
AND STARTED GROWING AS AN ATHLETE.
AND NEXT THING YOU KNOW, IT TRANSFORMED TO SEVEN PARALYMPIC GAMES.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT HAPPENED.
>> 19 OVERALL MEDALS.
ONE THING THAT STOOD OUT TO ME THAT YOU SAID THE LAST TIME WE SPOKE IS THAT YOU HAD NEVER SEEN ANYONE THAT LOOKED LIKE YOU REPRESENTING TEAM USA.
THAT -- THAT REALLY STOOD OUT TO ME AT THE TIME.
YOU JUST SAID SOMETHING ALONG THE SAME LINES RIGHT NOW.
WHY WAS THAT SUCH A PIVOTAL MOMENT FOR YOU, AND WHAT MESSAGE ARE YOU HOPING TO SEND TO OTHER GIRLS WATCHING?
>> I JUST REALLY -- THE MESSAGE I WANT TO SEND HOME TO YOUNG GIRLS AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES, BUT ALSO AS THE GAMES GEAR UP TOWARDS L.A. 2028 IS THAT WE ARE ATHLETES, WE BELONG HERE, WE BELONG TO BE SEEN AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S SO HARD TO DREAM AND BECOME SOMETHING, WHEN YOU DON'T EVEN SEE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.
AND IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO MAKE OUR SPORTS, ALL OF OUR SPORTS, BE VISIBLE, ALL OF THE WAYS TO DO SPORT, OLYMPIC AND PARALYMPIC ATHLETE.
AND IT'S JUST -- I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE -- LIKE I SAID, BELONGED IN THIS WORLD, AND IT'S HARD TO LOOK UP TO SOMETHING AND BELIEVE THAT IT'S POSSIBLE AND ATTAINABLE IF YOU DON'T SEE IT.
AND YOU HAVE TO E SO IT TO BELIEVE IT.
AND THEN TO THEN ACHIEVE IT AND DO IT.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M HOPING THAT BY ME SHOWING MY LEGS AND BEING AUTHENTICALLY MYSELF AND SHARING ALL THE PARTS OF MY JOURNEY, NOT JUST THE PRETTY ONES WHERE I GET TO SIT HERE WITH THE GOLD MEDALS, BUT THE HARD ONES, TOO, BECAUSE IT'S ALL PART OF THE JOURNEY AND THE PROCESS THAT HELP US BE THE ATHLETES WE CAN BE, AND LEADING INTO L.A., MORE VISIBILITY ON PARALYMPIC ATHLETES AND SPECIFICALLY FEMALES WITH DISABILITIES IN SPORTS, THAT'S MY PASSION, IS GROWING THAT, AND GROWING MY FIELD OF CYCLING AND GETTING MORE WOMEN INVOLVED IN SPORTS, BECAUSE WE BELONG HERE, WE'RE FIERCE, AND WE KNOW HOW TO FIGHT.
>> HAVE YOU SEEN PROGRESS ALONG THOSE LINES?
FROM LONDON TO TOKYO, OBVIOUSLY BEIJING, GIVEN THAT YOU DO BOTH SUMMER AND WINTER DISCIPLINE SPORTS, AND NOW PARIS.
DO YOU SEE PROGRESS ALONG THOSE LINES?
>> I DO SEE A LOT OF PROGRESS ALONG THOSE LINES, AND, YOU KNOW, PARIS HAS DONE A REALLY GOOD JOB WITH NEARLY EQUAL GENDER OF MALE/FEMALE MEDAL OPPORTUNITIES, AND SLOT ALLOCATIONS, AND THERE'S STILL A LOT OF ROOM TO GROW, ESPECIALLY IN MY SPORT OF PARACYCLING AND ROAD CYCLING SPECIFICALLY, BUT IT'S SO REASSUING WE'RE ON THE RIGHT PATH, AND YOU KNOW, WHERE EVERY YEAR, AT HOME, THE -- WE'RE HITTING RECORD COVERAGE OF THE PARALYMPIC GAMES WITHIN NBC AND PEACOCK AND THE DIFFERENT NETWORKS THAT STREAM.
AND I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT L.A. IS GOING TO BRING, BECAUSE I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A HUGE PIVOTAL SHIFT FOR THE PARALIMB PIM MOVEMENT.
>> WHAT ARE YOUR GOALS?
WHAT MORE CAN YOU ACCOMPLISH?
OBVIOUSLY, MORE MEDALS, BUT IN TERMS OF GOALS THAT YOU CONTINUE TO SET FOR YOURSELF, WHAT GOALS ARE THERE THAT WE CAN EXPECT TO SEE FROM YOU?
IN LOS ANGELES.
>> WELL, HONESTLY, I'M JUST CHASING THAT PERFECT RACE.
THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT I DIDN'T REALLY FEEL LIKE -- I WAS SO LUCKY TO RACE MY WAY TO GOLD MEDALS HERE, BUT I FEEL LIKE I DIDN'T RACE THAT PERFECT RACE WHERE I JUST NAILED EVERY PART AND WOULD NOT CHANGE ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
AND AS A COMPETITOR, AS AN ATHLETE, THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY CHASING IS THAT PERFECT RACE.
>> ARE YOU REALLY -- >> YES.
>> ARE YOU REALLY THAT TOUGH ON YOURSELF?
TWO GOLD MEDALS LATER, YOU STILL SAY YOU HAVEN'T HAD THE PERFECT RACE?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE IT'S A GOLD MEDAL AROUND MY NECK, FOR ME, IT'S NOT THE POSITION AND A NUMBER NEXT TO YOUR NAME, IT'S SOMETHING I FEEL INSIDE, WHERE BEFORE, I KNOW WHAT MEDAL AND POSITION I AM AT THE FINISH LINE, I WANT TO KNOW I WOULD NOT CHANGE ONE SINGLE THING AND BE PROUD OF THAT RACE, AND I'M PROUD OF THE RACES I DID HERE, FOR SURE, BUT TACTICALLY AND JUST IN THOSE AREAS WHERE MY WEAKNESSES, I WANT TO PERFECT THEM TO HAVE THAT PERFECT RACE.
>> OKSANA MASTERS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THE TIME.
IT HAS JUST BEEN A THRILL TO WATCH YOU CONTINUE TO SUCCEED AND EARN MEDAL AFTER MEDAL AFTER MEDAL, AND BEST OF LUCK, WE CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT L.A. IS GOING TO LOOK LIKE.
>> THANK YOU SO, SO MUCH.
>> SHE'S AMAZING.
>>> WELL, AS DEMOCRACY IS THREATENED AROUND THE WORLD, OUR NEXT GUEST WARNS THAT DANGER LIES CLOSER TO HOME, AT SCHOOL.
IN HIS LATEST BOOK, JASON STANLEY ARGUES THAT ATTACKS ON EDUCATION EMPOWER AUTHORITARIAN REGIMES BY RESHAPING OUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE PAST.
AND HE JOINS HARI TO DISCUSS.
>> BIANNA, THANK YOU.
JASON STANLEY, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US AGAIN.
YOUR RECENT BOOK STARTS WITH A QUOTE FROM VLADIMIR PUTIN, WARS ARE WON BY TEACHERS.
EXPLAIN WHY THAT -- THIS QUOTE, WHAT DOES HE MEAN, AND WHY IS IT SO SIGNIFICANT?
>> SO, WHAT OUR SCHOOLS DO, AND OUR TEXTBOOKS DO, IS THEY GIVE US A VISION OF HISTORY THAT ALLOWS US TO MAKE JUDGMENTS ABOUT POLICY.
IN THE CASE OF RUSSIA'S FULL-SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE, THE TEXTBOOKS THAT RUSSIANS ARE BROUGHT UP ON DO NOT REPRESENT UKRAINE AS HAVING AN INDEPENDENT HISTORY.
THEY DO NOT REPRESENT THE UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE AS GENUINELY SEPARATE LANGUAGE.
AND THEY ERASE THE HISTORY OF GENOCIDE THAT RUSSIA DIRECTED AGAINST UKRAINE IN THE 1930s.
AND SO, RUSSIANS ARE BROUGHT UP THINKING THAT IT'S JUST NOT TRUE THAT UKRAINE IS AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.
AND THEY'RE BROUGHT UP THINKING THAT IT'S OFFENSIVE TO RUSSIA THAT UKRAINIANS CLAIM THEY ARE AN INDEPENDENT COUNTRY.
AND SO, THAT, FOR THEM, JUSTIFIES THE FULL-SCALE INVASION OF UKRAINE.
ALSO, THE RUSSIAN TEXTBOOKS REPRESENT RUSSIAN INCURSIONS, INVASIONS, REALLY, INTO NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES LIKE GEORGIA AND UKRAINE, AS JUSTIFIED BY SUPPORTING PRO-RUSSIAN INDEPENDENCE MOVEMENTS.
SO, ALL OF THAT JUSTIFIES THE IDEOLOGY OF THE FULL-SCALE INVASION.
>> HOW DOES THAT TRANSLATE BEYOND RUSSIA, TO OTHER COUNTRIES?
AND THEN WE'LL GET TO THE U.S. >> WELL, IN THE CASE OF, FOR EXAMPLE, NAZI GERMANY, IT HAPPENED VERY RAPIDLY.
BUT THE NAZI TEXTBOOKS EMPHASIZED THE SO-CALLED STAB IN THE BACK MYTH, THAT JEWS SOMEHOW BETRAYED GERMANY IN WORLD WAR I AND SO, IT WASN'T A MILITARY LOSS, IT WAS A BETRAYAL.
AND SO, BY THE TIME THE LATE '30s CAME AROUND, GERMANY WAS THE MOST ANTI-SEMITIC COUNTRY IN EUROPE.
SO, WE -- WE THINK -- WE SEE THIS ACTUALLY, THIS PROCESS HAPPENING.
ACTUALLY RELATIVELY RAPIDLY, AND ONE MIGHT WONDER WHETHER THE YOUTH SUPPORT FOR MAGA REPUBLICANISM COMES FROM THE ALREADY CHANGED CURRICULUM IN SOUTHERN STATES.
WE'RE SEEING MORE YOUTH SUPPORT FOR DONALD TRUMP.
IT MAY BE -- THIS IS JUST A SPECULATION, THAT WE'RE ALREADY SEEING THE EFFECTS OF THE ATTACK ON EDUCATION IN MANY STATES.
>> LET'S TALK A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THAT.
EXPAND ON THIS ATTACK ON EDUCATION.
HOW -- I MEAN, LOOK, YOU ARE AN EXPERT ON FASCISM, YOU ARE AN EXPERT ON HOW CULTURES AND SOCIETIES, YOU KNOW, SLOWLY DRIFT FROM ONE IDEOLOGY TO ANOTHER.
WHAT TROUBLES YOU ABOUT WHAT YOU SEE IN AMERICAN EDUCATION TODAY?
>> SO, IN A DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, YOU WANT AN EDUCATION THAT GIVES CITIZENS AGENCY.
IT REPRESENTS SOCIAL MOVEMENTS THAT REALIZE THE TWO GREAT DEMOCRATIC VALUES OF EQUALITY AND FREEDOM.
WHEN YOU ERASE THE HISTORY OF SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, FOR EXAMPLE, AS THEY DID WITH JIM CROW, WHEN THEY ERASED THE AGENCY OF BLACK AMERICANS FROM THE CIVIL WAR, FROM BEFORE THE CIVIL WAR, LIKE SLAVE REBELLIONS, THROUGH TO THE CIVIL WAR AND BEYOND, THEN YOU'RE REPRESENTING BLACK AMERICANS AS LACKING THE AGENCY TO FIGHT FOR THEIR OWN FREEDOM AND EQUALITY.
WHEN YOU ERASE THE HISTORY OF SOCIAL MOVEMENTS, YOU'RE REPRESENTING HIERARCHY AS PERMANENT AND UNCHALLENGEABLE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN U.S. EDUCATION.
INSTEAD OF DEMOCRATIC EDUCATION, WE HAVE PATRIOTIC EDUCATION.
WE HAVE THE GLORIFICATION OF GREAT MEN.
AND THAT IDEA IS THAT IT'S NOT SOCIAL MOVEMENTS RISING AS IT WERE FROM BELOW THAT MAKE DEMOCRACY MORE PERFECT, BUT -- THAT REALIZE DEMOCRACY, BUT INSTEAD, THE GREAT DEEDS OF INDIVIDUAL MEN.
AND THEN YOU'RE REMOVING THE AGENCY FROM PEOPLE THAT'S REQUIRED FOR DEMOCRACY.
SO, THAT'S THE FIRST ELEMENT THAT WORRIES ME.
YOU'RE REPRESENTING HISTORY AS THE DEEDS OF GREAT MEN, AND SO, WHY WOULD PEOPLE JOIN SOCIAL MOVEMENTS?
SECONDLY, YOU'RE ERASING THE HISTORY OF THE DOMINANT GROUP'S OPPRESSION OF A NONDOMINANT GROUP'S.
SO, IN ORDER TO REALIZE THE DEMOCRATIC IDEALS, WE NEED TO KNOW WHO HAS BEEN DENIED EQUALITY AND WHY.
WHEN YOU ERASE THAT HISTORY, AND INSTEAD HAVE A MYTH OF NATIONAL INNOCENCE AND NATIONAL GREATNESS, WELL, THEN YOU CAN'T REPAIR THE INEQUALITIES OF THE PAST.
>> THE FORMER PRESIDENT WAS RECENTLY AT AN EVENT FOR MOMS FOR LIBERTY, WHERE HE WAS IMPLYING THAT KIDS JUST WENT TO SCHOOL AND SEVERAL DAYS LATER CAME BACK WITH GENDER SURGERIES.
I MEAN, WHAT -- THAT'S IN A HYPERPOLITICAL, IN A CAMPAIGN ENVIRONMENT, BUT WHAT DO THESE THINGS -- HOW DO THEY INFORM YOUR THINKING ABOUT HOW THIS SORT OF CREEP HAPPENS?
>> TONI MORRISON MADE THE POINT THAT LIBERTY TOO OFTEN IN AMERICA MEANS LIBERTY FOR, ESSENTIALLY, WHITE CHRISTIAN MEN.
OR WHITES.
MOMS FOR LIBERTY FIGHTS TO ELIMINATE BLACK HISTORY BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT THEIR CHILDREN TO FEEL GUILTY ABOUT THE PAST.
BUT WHOSE CHILDREN ARE MADE TO FEEL NOT GUILTY HERE?
WHOSE CHILDREN ARE, AS IT WERE, RESCUED BY THIS CONFRONTATION FROM HISTORY?
WELL, IT'S NOT BLACK CHILDREN, BECAUSE BLACK CHILDREN, BY NOT KNOWING THE HISTORY, BLACK HISTORY, BY NOT KNOWING -- BY NOT BEING EXPOSED TO THE CONSEQUENCES OF JIM CROW, THE CONSEQUENCES OF RED-LINING IN THE MORTGAGE INDUSTRY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH IS WHY MANY BLACK AMERICANS DIDN'T INHERIT HOUSES, CHIEF SOURCE OF WEALTH OF WHITE AMERICANS, BY NOT LEARNING THAT HISTORY, THEY WILL FEEL BADLY ABOUT THEIR FAMILY, THEY WILL THINK THAT THEIR ANCESTORS WERE SOMEHOW LAZY FOR NOT -- FOR NOT ACCRUING WEALTH.
SO -- SO THIS IS -- SO, IT'S -- WHAT'S MEANT HERE BY LIBERTY, WHAT'S MEANT HERE BY NOT MAKING CHILDREN FEEL -- FEEL THE WEIGHT OF THE PAST, IS WHITE CHILDREN.
WHAT'S MEANT IS BOYS, BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT LEARNING -- WHAT'S MEANT IS HETEROSEXUALS.
NOW, TWO THINGS ABOUT THE FOCUS ON TRANS-CHILDREN.
FIRST OF ALL, THERE'S A TINY MINORITY OF AMERICA WHO ARE TRANS.
SO, IT'S THE PERFECT SCAPEGOAT.
IT'S THE PERFECT SCAPEGOAT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A REAL VOTING POPULATION.
SO, YOU WANT A SCAPEGOAT THAT DOESN'T AFFECT A SIGNIFICANT VOTING POPULATION.
AND TRANSAMERICANS FIT THAT.
SECONDLY, FASCISM, FASCIST IDEOLOGY, WHICH IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING, IS BASED AROUND NATALISM.
IT'S BASED AROUND RIGID GENDER ROLES.
THE IDEA THAT WOMEN SHOULD BEAR A LOT OF CHILDREN, AND MEN SHOULD FATHER THOSE CHILDREN.
TRANS IDENTITY VIOLATES RIGID GENDER ROLES.
AND THIS GOES BACK IN HISTORY TO THE ORIGINAL FASCIST MOVEMENTS.
THE NATIONAL SOCIALISTS TARGETED A GAY -- A GAY GERMAN JEW WHO WAS THE DIRECTOR THAT HAD THE LARGEST PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE OF GENDER VARIABILITY, AS WELL AS 20,000 VOLUMES OF LGTB LITERATURE, LITERATURE REPRESENTING LGBT PERSPECTIVES.
AND THIS WHOLE COLLECTION WAS BURNED IN THE FIRST -- IN THE FIRST NAZI BOOK BURNING IN 1933.
THIS IS HIGHLY REMINISCENT OF WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW, WHEN WE SEE ANY EVIDENCE OF GENDER VARIABILITY REMOVED FROM LIBRARIES AND SCHOOLS.
WHEN WE SEE LGBT PERSPECTIVES REMOVED FROM LIBRARIES AND SCHOOLS.
AND I ASK AGAIN, MOMS FOR LIBERTY WANTS TO ELIMINATE ANY REPRESENTATION OF LGBT PERSPECTIVES FROM SCHOOLS.
THINK ABOUT HOW THIS MAKES LGBT CHILDREN FEEL, OR CHILDREN OF SAME-SEX PARENTS.
THIS MAKES THEM FEEL TERRIBLE, WEIRD, FREAKISH.
MOMS FOR LIBERTY IS ALL ABOUT NOT MAKING OUR CHILDREN FEEL BADLY.
WELL, WHAT DOES OUR CHILDREN MEAN HERE?
THE TONY MORRISON POINT IS THAT LIBERTY, AND MOMS FOR LIBERTY, JUST MEANS HETEROSEXUAL WHITE PEOPLE.
>> RIGHT NOW, WE'VE HAD ALSO, YOU KNOW, POLITICIZATION OF THE PROTESTS THAT ARE HAPPENING ON CAMPUSES, WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY, THERE'S ALSO AN ATTACK ON THE TYPES OF MATERIAL THAT IS ALLOWED TO BE TAUGHT ON COLLEGE CAMPUSES.
WE SEE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S ECONOMIC REASONS, MAYBE IT'S CULTURAL REASONS, THERE MIGHT BE A LOT OF FACTORS, BUT WE ALSO SEE KIND OF AN ATTACK JUST THE IDEA OF THE HUMANITIES OR LIBERAL EDUCATION.
>> SO LET'S BEGIN WITH THE ATTACK ON UNIVERSITIES.
THAT IS THE CANARY IN THE COAL MINE OF FASCISM.
CENTRAL EUROPEAN UNIVERSITY WAS EJECTED FROM THE COUNTRY OF HUNGARY BY VIKTOR ORBAN FOR TEACHING GENDER IDEOLOGY.
WE'RE SEEING THIS IMITATED POINT BY POINT BY AMERICAN AUTOCRATS LIKE RON DeSANTIS.
SO, AUTOCRATS KNOW THAT DISSENT AND CRITIQUE COMES FROM UNIVERSITIES.
THEY KNOW THAT STUDENT MOVEMENTS ARE OFTEN CENTRAL PARTS OF SOCIAL MOVEMENTS FOR DEMOCRATIC CHANGE.
LOOK AT BANGLADESH, WHAT JUST HAPPENED IN BANGLADESH.
STUDENT PROTESTERS OVERTHREW THE AUTOCRATIC LEADER OF BANGLADESH.
THAT'S THE KIND OF THING THAT AUTOCRATS, AUTHORITARIANS, THOSE THAT WANT TO BUILD A ONE-PARTY STATE, ARE AFRAID OF.
THEY'RE AFRAID OF STUDENT MOVEMENTS.
WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS, WE'VE SEEN NONVIOLENT STUDENT PROTEST PROTESTING AMERICAN FUNDING OF A GENOCIDE IN GAZA.
PROTESTING ISRAEL'S AGGRESSION IN GAZA.
THESE ARE ANTI-WAR PROTESTS.
SO, JUST LIKE THE VIETNAM ANTI-WAR PROTESTS.
AND THEN, WE HAVE MODERATE WILL BE LIBERALS JOINING THE RIGHT WING AUTHORITARIAN SOURCES IN CHEERING ON POLICE, MILITARIZED POLICE, GOING ON CAMPUS AND CONFRONTING ANTI-WAR PROTESTERS.
AND THIS CONCERNS ME GREATLY, BECAUSE WHEN THE LEFT AND THE CENTER-LEFT, THE LIBERALS, ARE SEPARATED AND AT EACH OTHER'S THROAT, THEN THE AUTOCRATS AND AUTHORITARIANS WIN.
HISTORY TELLS US THIS.
SO, WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS AN ATTACK ON UNIVERSITIES, EGGED ON BY MODERATE LIBERALS, EGGED ON BY NEWSPAPERS LIKE "THE NEW YORK TIMES," AND THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT AUTHORITARIANS WANT.
IF YOU LOOK AT INDIA, FOR EXAMPLE, IN 2019, THERE WAS LARGE-SCALE STUDENT PROTESTS FOR MUSLIM EQUALITY AGAINST THE CITIZENSHIP AMENDMENT ACT.
THESE WERE NONVIOLENCE PROTESTS SUPPORTING MUSLIM EQUALITY.
THEY WERE REPRESENTED AS ANTI-INDIAN, AND THERE WAS A HARSH MILITARIZED REPRICEAL TO THESE PROTESTS.
SO, THIS IDEA THAT UNIVERSITIES CRITIQUE -- THAT UNIVERSITIES MAKE OF PATRIOTISM AND NATIONALISM, AND STUDENT MOVEMENTS FOR EQUALITY ARE SOMEHOW ANTI-NATIONAL, IS VERY FAMILIAR FROM AUTHORITARIAN MOVEMENTS, AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT WE'RE SEEING HERE.
WE'RE SEEING A WINDUP TO WHAT, MILITARIZED FORCE AGAINST PROTESTS.
WE'RE ALSO SEEING A VERY DEVELOPED ATTACK ON THE GREATEST UNIVERSITY SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
THE UNITED STATES HAS THE GREATEST UNIVERSITY SYSTEM IN THE WORLD.
AND THE REPUBLICAN RIGHT IS DISMANTLING IT WITH THE HELP OF WHAT MARTIN LUTHER KING CALLED THE MODERATE LIBERAL.
FLORIDA HAS ESSENTIALLY DISMANTLED TENURE, OHIO AND INDIANA ARE ESSENTIALLY DISMANTLING TENURE WITH POLITICIZED TENURE REVIEW.
THE AAUP, THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATE FOR UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR REPORT ON FLORIDA IS TERRIFYING.
AND LET ME CONCLUDE BY POINTING OUT A FUNDAMENTAL ELEMENT OF AUTHORITARIANISM.
AUTHORITARIANISM IS ALL ABOUT CREATING A CULTURE OF FEAR.
AND THAT'S WHAT THESE ATTACKS ON SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITIES ARE DOING.
THEY'RE CREATING A CULTURE OF FEAR AND INTIMIDATION FOR ANYONE WHO CRITICIZES THE NATIONALIST IDEOLOGY THAT THE FAR RIGHT HAS.
>> HOW DOES PROJECT 2025, WHICH FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS TRIED TO DISASSOCIATE HIMSELF FROM, HOW DOES IT TACKLE THE IDEA OF EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTIONS IN THE UNITED STATES, IF PRESIDENT TRUMP IS RE-ELECTED?
>> SO, WE'VE GOT AN ATTACK ON FEDERAL FUNDING FOR UNIVERSITIES.
AND WE HAVE THE ELIMINATION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION.
NOW, THAT'S A LONG-STANDING GOAL OF THE CONSERVATIVE MOVEMENT, SO, TO ELIMINATE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND DEAL WITH ITS CIVIL RIGHTS -- ITS JURISDICTION OVER CIVIL RIGHTS, EQUALITY, SO, ONCE YOU ELIMINATE THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE MONITORING OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN STATES.
YOU DON'T REALLY HAVE MODERATE -- HAVE MONITORING THAT THERE'S NOT DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MINORITY GROUPS.
THAT'S A LONG-STANDING GOAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.
>> YOU WRITE THAT HISTORY IN A DEMOCRACY IS NOT STATIC, NOT MYTHIC, BUT DYNAMIC AND CRITICAL.
EXPLAIN THAT.
>> A DEMOCRACY REQUIRES A CONSTANT, CRITICAL ENGAGEMENT WITH THE PAST AND THE PRESENT, BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATIC IDEALS OF FREEDOM AND EQUALITY ARE NEVER PERFECTLY REALIZED.
BUT A DEMOCRACY IS A DYNAMIC CULTURE THAT TRIES TO REALIZE IT MORE AND MORE.
IT TRIES TO BROADEN THE SCOPE OF FREEDOM AND BROADEN THE SCOPE OF EQUALITY.
EQUALITY IN A DEMOCRACY MEANS POLITICAL EQUALITY.
AND THAT MEANS ALL OF US PLAY A ROLE IN THE FORMATION OF THE LAWS THAT GOVERN US.
IF WE DON'T PLAY A ROLE IN THE FORMATION OF THE LAWS THAT GOVERN US, THEN WE'RE NOT A DEMOCRACY.
BUT YOU CAN'T PLAY THAT ROLE IF YOU DON'T KNOW HISTORY.
YOU CAN'T PLAY THAT ROLE IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW HISTORY IMPACTS THE PRESENT.
YOU CAN'T PLAY THE ROLE OF CHANGING LAWS TO -- TO MAKE UP FOR THE -- THE TENDRILS OF HISTORY THAT SUPPRESS CERTAIN GROUPS IN THE PRESENT.
>> YOU KNOW, RIGHT NOW, IN GERMANY, IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE COUNTRY, A FAR RIGHT GROUP FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE, REALLY NAZI GERMANY, HAS COME BACK INTO POWER.
AND I WONDER IF THAT IS AN ANOMALY, IF THAT IS PART OF A TREND, WHAT DO YOU SEE?
>> WELL, IT IS SORT OF AN IMITATION OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT?
I'M NOT SAYING IT'S AN EXPLICIT IMITATION, BUT IT'S A -- IT MIRRORS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES.
THEY WISH TO CHANGE THE EDUCATION SYSTEM AND CHANGE THE MONUMENTS AND SCULPTURES.
THEY WANT GERMANS TO BE PROUD OF THEIR HISTORY.
THEY WANT TO REDUCE THE STIGMA OF THE THIRD REICH.
THIS IS WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THE UNITED STATES.
WELL, WE'RE SAYING, WE DON'T WANT STUDENTS TO FEEL ASHAMED OF U.S. HISTORY.
WE DON'T WANT BLACK CHILDREN TO LEARN -- BLACK AND WHITE CHILDREN TO LEARN THAT OUR FOUNDERS WERE ENSLAVERS.
WE JUST WANT THEM TO LEARN THE POSITIVE ASPECTS OF OUR HISTORY.
>> THE NEW BOOK IS CALLED "ERASING HISTORY."
PROFESSOR JASON STANLEY, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US AGAIN.
>> THANK YOU, HARI.
>>> AND FINALLY, DOWN IN SAN DIEGO, DOZENS OF DOGS HIT THE WAVES FOR THIS YEAR'S CANINE SURF-A-THON.
TAKING TO THE WATER IN GOGGLES AND LIFE JACKETS, ALL IN THE NAME OF A GOOD CAUSE.
THE PROSEEDS WILL GO TO THE ANNUAL HOST, THE HELEN WOODWARD ANIMAL CENTER.
I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY GET GOGGLES ON THOSE DOGS.
>>> THANK YOU FOR WATCHING "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" ON PBS.
JOIN US AGAIN TOMORROW NIGHT.
>>> "AMANPOUR AND COMPANY" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY -- JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS.
CANDACE KING WEIR.
THE SYLVIA A.
AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTI-SEMITISM.
THE FAMILY FOUNDATION OF LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS.
MARK J. BLECHNER.
THE FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION.
SETON J. MELVIN.
THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND.
CHARLES ROSENBLUM.
KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN, COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.
BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG.
JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS.
AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU.
THANK YOU.
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