Terrorism in New Orleans and the Threat of a Rebounding ISIS

>> UP NEXT, ARE WE SEEING A RESURRECTION OF ISIS?

THAT'S WHAT OUR NEXT GUEST BELIEVES AFTER 2024 SAW A BAT OF IN ACTIVITIES BY THE TERRORIST GROUP.

NOW THE FBI HAS CONFIRMED THE SUSPECT IN THE NEW YEARS DAY ATTACK IN NEW ORLEANS WAS INSPIRED BY ISIS.

HOMELAND SECURITY AT THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, BRUCE HOFFMAN JOINS HARI SREENIVASAN TO DISCUSS THE GROWING TERROR THREAT AND WHAT COULD BE DRIVING PEOPLE TOWARD EXTREMIST IDEAS.

>> THANKS.

BRUCE HOFFMAN, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

WE LOOK AT THE BACKGROUND OF THE FORMER SOLDIER WHO LAUNCHED THIS ATTACK IN NEW ORLEANS.

WE SEE THAT HE WAS GIVEN A MEDAL FOR SERVING IN THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM, AND HERE WE ARE, A COUPLE DAYS AGO, THE FBI IS CALLING HIM A TERRORIST.

HOW DOES THIS HAPPEN?

HOW DOES THIS ALMOST 180-DEGREE SWITCH HAPPEN?

>> WHAT WE KNOW IS HE WAS EXPERIENCING I THINK WHAT MIGHT BE CALLED IMMENSE FRUSTRATIONS.

HE HAD TWO FAILED MARRIAGES.

HE WAS ESTRANGED FROM HIS CHILDREN.

HE APPEARED TO BE IN AND OUT OF VARIOUS FINANCIAL VENTURES AND DIFFICULTIES.

HE WAS A CONVERT TO A DIFFERENT RELIGION.

IT MAY BE THAT HE FOUND AN ANSWER TO HIS LIFE IN ACHIEVING MORE IN HIS DEATH THAN HE COULD HAVE HAD HE LIVED.

THAT MAY BE THE SIMPLEST EXPLANATION OF WHAT DROVE HIM TO THIS PARTICULAR HEINOUS ACT OF VIOLENCE.

>> HOW DID THE PEOPLE AROUND HIM MISS THIS CONVERSION OR JUST THIS KIND OF CHANGE IN ATTITUDE?

I MEAN, NOW WE'RE DISCOVERING THAT THERE WERE SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS BEFORE THIS HAPPENED.

>> YES.

I DON'T KNOW HOW WIDELY CIRCULATED, OR HOW WIDELY KNOWN THE SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS WERE.

CLEARLY, MEMBERS OF HIS FAMILY HAD NOTED CHANGES, THAT HE HAD GROWN HIS BEARD LONG, FOR EXAMPLE, AND SEEMED TO BECOME MORE DEVOUT.

THEN HE CUT HIS BEARD.

STARTED DRESSING A BIT DIFFERENTLY.

THERE WAS NOTHING REALLY THAT WOULD HAVE TRIGGERED ANY ASSUMPTION THAT THIS RELATION OF THEIRS WAS GOING TO EMBARK ON A TERRORIST OPERATION THAT OBVIOUSLY REQUIRED CONSIDERABLE SURVEILLANCE WE KNOW NOW HE MADE TWO RECONNAISSANCE TRIPS TO NEW ORLEANS, INCLUDING ONE LAST OCTOBER WHERE HE DROVE AROUND BOURBON STREET WEARING THE KINDS OF GLASSES WHERE YOU CAN SURREPTITIOUSLY RECORD FOOTAGE.

NO ONE SEEMED TO NOTICE THAT THERE WAS ANYTHING REALLY OUT OF THE ORDINARY THAT MIGHT HAVE SUGGESTED A VIOLENT INTENT.

>> WE'VE SEEN THE NUMBER OF ISIS ATTACKS DECREASE OVER THE LONGER ARC, 2016, 2017.

THIS LAST YEAR WE SAW AN UPTICK IN DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

WHAT DO YOU THINK EXPLAINS THAT?

>> NO TERRORIST GROUP WILLINGLY GOES INTO IRRELEVANCE.

FOR THEM, THEIR STOCK AND TRADE IS VIOLENCE.

THAT'S HOW THEY HAVE THEIR CAUSES.

OBVIOUSLY, ISIS WAS KNOCKED OFF BALANCE BY THE DEFEAT OF THE CALIPHATE, THE DEFEAT OF ITS RULE OVER WESTERN IRAQ AND EASTERN SYRIA.

AND IT'S TAKEN TIME TO REGROUP AND REORGANIZE.

UNFORTUNATELY, IN 2024, WE SAW A SIGNIFICANT UPTICK IN INTERNATIONAL ISIS TERRORIST ACTIVITIES WHICH WAS IN ESSENCE A HARBINGER OF THIS IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE'VE HAD ONE ATTACK AND ONE VERY SERIOUS INCIDENT.

THAT WAS BACK IN OCTOBER WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL IN OKLAHOMA CITY WAS ARRESTED BY THE FBI PLOTTING TO ATTACK ON THE ELECTION DAY.

>> WHEN YOU THINK OF THIS, IT SEEMS LESS AS A CENTRAL ORGANIZATION THAT IS CALLING PEOPLE TO DO SPECIFIC THINGS.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE, IT'S ENABLING OTHERS TO HAVE THEIR OWN INSPIRATIONS.

>> IT'S BOTH.

THAT WAS WHAT MAKES ISIS SO DIFFICULT TO UNDERSTAND.

FOR THE AUTHORITIES, SO DIFFICULT TO TRACK.

ON THE ONE HAND, YOU HAVE HIGHLY ORGANIZED, EVEN ORCHESTRATED TERRORIST ATTACKS.

BUT THE ONE LAST MARCH, AT THE MUSIC HALL IN MOSCOW WHERE 130 WERE KILLED.

WE HAD THE CASE IN NEW ORLEANS WHERE AT LEAST AS OF THIS MOMENT, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THE PERPETRATOR HAD ANY CONTACT WITH ISIS OPERATIVES OR COMMANDERS.

AND THEREFORE, WHAT WE SEE IS ISIS PURSUING A PARALLEL TRACK OF ORCHESTRATING, ORGANIZING TERRORIST ATTACKS, BUT ALSO, ENCOURAGING, INSPIRING, MOTIVATING AND ANIMATING INDIVIDUALS COMPLETELY ON THEIR OWN TO CARRY OUT ATTACKS ON BEHALF OF ISIS.

>> HOW STRONG DO WE THINK ISIS IS TODAY?

I MEAN, I WONDER, ALSO, HOW GEOPOLITICAL INSTABILITY IN THE MIDDLE EAST FACTORS INTO THIS?

>> TERRORISM DOESN'T OCCUR IN A VACUUM.

IT REFLECTS THE TENSIONS IN SOCIETY, THE CONFLICTS IN OTHER CORNERS OF THE WORLD, THE POLITICAL POLARIZATION IN ANY ENTITY.

IN THIS SENSE, I THINK ISIS HAS BEEN STRUGGLING IN RECENT YEARS TO REASSERT ITSELF.

UNFORTUNATELY, 2024, TO AT LEAST A HALF DOZEN, IF NOT ATTACKS, THEN SERIOUS THREATS THAT WERE DERAILED.

AND THEN THE UPHEAVAL IN SYRIA.

ISIS'S GOAL WAS TO OVERTHROW THE REGIME OF BASHAR AL ASSAD.

THEY FAILED.

ANOTHER PERSON SUCCEEDED.

SO NOW FOR ISIS, THEY ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT A WAY THEY CAN ELBOW THEMSELVES BACK INTO THE LIMELIGHT.

THEY CAN STEAL SOME OF THAT THUNDER THAT WAS ACQUIRED FROM HAVING OVERTHROWN THE REGIME.

AND THEY BELIEVE THEY WILL REESTABLISH ITS PREEMINENCE AS THE BIGGEST TERRORIST THREAT IN THE GLOBE.

>> YOU'VE WRITTEN THAT ISISPIONEERS SOCIAL MEDIA.

EXPLAIN WHAT DO THEY DO AND WHAT ARE THEY STILL DOING WELL?

>> ISIS WAS I THINK THE PREEMINENT PINEER IN THE USE OF SOCIAL MEDIA TO RADICALIZE AND RECRUIT TERRORISTS.

THE PROOF IS IN THE FACT THAT THEY RECRUITED ON A GLOBAL BASIS 40,000 FOREIGN FIGHTERS FROM AT LEAST 120 DIFFERENT COUNTRIES THAT CAME TO THE CALIPHATE.

AND BACK ABOUT A DECADE AGO, THEY DID THIS BY USING THE KINDS OF SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS THAT WERE JUST BECOMING IN VOGUE.

THEY WERE USING WHAT WAS THEN CALLED TWITTER, FACEBOOK, INSTAGRAM, AND SO ON.

THEY USED THESE AS VERY EFFECTIVE TOOLS TO REACH A WORLDWIDE AUDIENCE VERY IMMEDIATELY IN REAL-TIME AT VERY REAL COSTS AND THEY ENGAGED WHAT WE MIGHT CALL NARROW CASTING.

BROADCASTING IS WHEN YOU PUT SOMETHING ON A PLATFORM AND YOU HOPE SOMEONE WATCHES IT.

NARROW CASTING IS THEY SCULPTED THEIR MESSAGES ON SOCIAL MEDIA TO APPEAL TO SPECIFIC DEMOGRAPHICS IN PARTICULAR COUNTRIES.

THAT'S WHY THEY SUCCEEDED IN CREATING THE FIRST TRULY GLOBAL TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.

>> DO YOU THINK THAT WHAT HAS BEEN HAPPENING ON SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS, AT LEAST IN TERMS OF THEIR OWN ABILITY TO POLICE, THEIR OWN INTEREST IN POLICING CONTENT THAT IS ON THE PLATFORM, THAT HAS BEEN DECLINING, AT LEAST IN THE PAST COUPLE YEARS.

CERTAINLY IN THE CASE OF TWITTER.

BUT I WONDER, DOES THAT ACCELERATE WHAT IS HAPPENING?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK THAT THE UNEVEN TRACK RECORD OF SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES IN MONITORING AND POLICING THE CONTENT ON THEIR PLATFORMS, WHICH AT TIMES HAS BEEN BETTER, AT OTHER TIMES WORSE.

TERRORISTS CLEARLY TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE LAPSES.

CLEARLY TRY TO IDENTIFY WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY WHEN THEY CAN PROPAGATE THEIR MESSAGES ON A WIDER SCALE.

AT A TIME WHEN DOLLARS AND SCENTS ARE THE BOTTOM LINE OF WHAT IS PROFITABLE BUSINESSES, THE TECH COMPANIES AREN'T WILLING TO INVEST THE TIME AND THE PERSONNEL ACQUIRED TO REALLY TACKLE WHAT IS A VERY LARGE PROBLEM.

IT'S NOT A SMALL PROBLEM.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT COULDN'T BE MORE EFFECTIVELY ADDRESSED THAN IT HAS BEEN.

>> WE HAVE ANOTHER ATTACK THAT HAPPENED ON NEW YEARS DAY.

THIS WAS A TRAGEDY IN LAS VEGAS WITH THE CYBER TRUCK THAT EXPLODED.

WHAT DO WE KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THESE TWO INDIVIDUALS, BETWEEN THESE TWO ATTACKS HAPPENING REALLY WITHIN HOURS OF EACH OTHER, BOTH USING ELECTRIC VEHICLES, RENTED ON THE SAME CAR-SHARING PLATFORM.

IT SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF THINGS TO BE A COINCIDENCE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE COINCIDENCES GO FURTHER.

BOTH THESE INDIVIDUALS SERVED AT THE SAME TIME AT FORT LIBERTY, THEN CALLED FORT BRAGG.

BOTH DEPLOYED TO AFGHANISTAN AT THE SAME TIME.

OF COURSE, THE U. S. ARMY IS A HUGE ENTERPRISE.

IT'S NOT AT ALL LIKELY THAT THEY MAY HAVE CROSSED PATHS.

ONE WAS IN SPECIAL OPERATIONS UNIT, A HIGHLY DECORATED COMBAT VETERAN.

THAT'S SERGEANT LEVELSBERGER FROM LAS VEGAS.

JABBAR WAS IN I. T. IN THE ARMY.

THEY MAY POSSIBLY HAVE CROSSED PATHS.

THE ONLY CONNECTION I CAN PERHAPS SEE IS THE LAS VEGAS PROBABLY BROUGHT FORWARD, GO THAT IN OTHER WORDS, THAT ATTACK WAS PRECIPITOUSLY STAGED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ALL THE ATTENTION BEING SHOWERED ON THE INCIDENTS IN NEW ORLEANS, AND IT WAS THE ASSUMPTION OF, I BELIEVE, SERGEANT LEVELSBERGER, THAT HE HAD TO MOVE HIS ATTACK FORWARD TO GET THAT ATTENTION.

THAT MAY EXPLAIN WHY THE GASOLINE, THE FIREWORKS IN THE CYBER TRUCK DIDN'T CREATE A LARGER EXPLOSION.

>> WHAT ARE SOME OF THE FACTORS THAT WE SHOULD BE WATCHING FOR NOW?

INTERESTING THAT THERE ARE THESE SORT OF PUBLIC EVENTS AND OPPORTUNITIES THAT WILL BE HAPPENING, WHETHER IT IS THE SUPER BOWL, THE INAUGURATION.

>> THAT'S EXACTLY WHY WHAT WE'VE SEEN OVER THE YEARS IS A TERRORIST GROUP LIKE ISIS IN PARTICULAR, IT'S NOT ALL OF THEM, DELIBERATELY TARGETING CELEBRITY EVENTS.

LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE COMING OUT TO CELEBRATE A NATIONAL HOLIDAY, A CONCERT, A SPORTING EVENT.

WE SAW THIS IN NICE ALMOST A DECADE AGO IN 2016 WHEN ON BASTILLE DAY, A TRUCK RAN DOWN THE PROMENADE IN NICE WEST SAW IT IN 2015 WHEN TERRORISTS ATTACKED A CONCERT BY A HEAVY METAL BAND BUT SIMULTANEOUSLY ATTACKED A STADIUM WHERE A MAJOR SOCCER MATCH WAS GOING ON.

WE SAW AN ATTACK ON THE ARIANNA GRANDE CONCERT IN 2017 IN ENGLAND, THE TAYLOR SWIFT CONCERT THIS LAST AUGUST HAD TO BE CANCEL IN THE VIENNA, AND NOW WE HAVE BOURBON STREET IN NEW ORLEANS AFTER TIMES SQUARE.

ONE OF THE MOST ICONIC PARTY-GOING PLACES IN THE UNITED STATES.

LAS VEGAS AS WELL.

CERTAINLY PLACES PEOPLE FLOCK TO.

TERRORISTS ARE DELIBERATELY TARGETING VENUES WITH LARGE GATHERINGS OF PERSONS TO INFLICT THE MAXIMUM CASUALTIES.

OF COURSE, THIS IS GOING TO RESULT IN A RECONSIDERATION OF THE SECURITY MEASURES AT ALL BIG EVENTS AND APPROPRIATE MEASURES WILL BE TAKEN TO ENSURE THOSE WHO ATTEND THAT THEY WILL FEEL SAFE AND NOT STAY AT HOME.

>> IT SEEMS THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS HAS PLACED AN EMPHASIS ON DOMESTIC HOME-GROWN TERRORISM, RIGHT?

AND I'M WONDERING, DO WE HAVE THE CAPACITY TO PROTECT, YOU KNOW, OUR CITIZENS FROM BOTH THE ENEMIES ABROAD AND FROM WITHIN?

>> IN RECENT YEARS, ESPECIALLY GIVEN THE DEFEAT OF ISIS'S CALIPHATE IN IRAQ, THE KILLING OF BIN LADEN'S SUCCESSOR OF AL QAEDA, THE KILLING OF THE FOUNDER AND LEADER OF ISIS AND SO ON, HAS BRED A SENSE OF COMPLACENCY.

THAT TERRORISM WAS VERY MUCH IN OUR REAR VIEW MIRROR.

IF WE HAD TO FOCUS ON ANY ASPECT OF TERRORISM, IT WAS FROM HOME-GROWN, WHETHER IT WAS VIOLENT LEFT- WING OR VIOLENT RIGHT-WING IN THE UNITED STATES.

WE KIND OF FORGOT ABOUT THE THREAT FROM OVERSEAS.

WHAT WE'RE LEARNING NOW, ESPECIALLY IN THE AFTERMATH OF THE TRAGEDY IN NEW ORLEANS, WE HAVE TO HAVE SECURITY INTELLIGENCE TO COVER THE WATER FRONT.

FROM NATION STATES, COMPETITORS LIKE CHINA AND RUSSIA, ROGUE STATES LIKE IRAN AND NORTH KOREA, BUT ALSO AGAINST TERRORIST ENEMIES BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.

>> HOW DO WE FIGURE OUT, LOOK, THIS IS ONE OF THOSE DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS THAT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS TRY TO HAVE.

WHERE SHOULD WE FOCUS?

SHOULD WE BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT ATTACKS FROM OUTSIDE OR INSIDE?

>> I THINK UNFORTUNATELY, WE HAVE TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT ATTACKS FROM BOTH.

UNTIL SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, THE SINGLE MOST LETHAL ATTACK IN THE UNITED STATES WAS PERPETRATED BY AN AMERICAN KILLING FELLOW AMERICANS.

THAT WAS THE BOMBING OF THE FEDERAL OFFICE BUILDING IN OKLAHOMA CITY THAT KILLED 168 PERSONS.

VERY SIMILAR TO THE NEW ORLEANS ATTACK.

TIMOTHY McVAY WAS AN ARMY VETERAN AS WELL.

HE WAS OPERATING WITH ONE OR TWO OTHER CONFEDERATES WHO WERE FORMER ARMY BUDDIES BUT WASN'T PART OF ANY TERROR ORGANIZATION.

WASN'T FOLLOWING ANYONE'S ORDERS BUT TOOK THIS UPON HIMSELF.

I THINK WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT TO COUNTER THE ENTIRE RANGE OF THREATS THAT WE FACE.

AND ALSO, HAVE THE PHYSICAL MEASURES IN PLACE TO MAKE IT MUCH MORE DIFFICULT FOR TERRORISTS TO ATTACK.

AS YOU KNOW, THERE'S BEEN TREMENDOUS DISCUSSION ABOUT THE BOLLARDS ISSUE, THE WEDGES THAT WOULD HAVE MADE IT FAR MORE DIFFICULT FOR THAT VEHICLE TO JUMP UP ON THE SIDEWALK AND MOW DOWN THE PEDESTRIANS THERE.

THAT WAS CLEARLY A LAPSE THAT THERE WERE POLICE CARS BLOCKING OFF BOURBON STREET BECAUSE THE BOLLARDS DIDN'T WORK.

BUT NO ONE IMAGINED THAT AN ASSAILANT WOULD JUMP UP ON T HE CURB WITH A VEHICLE AND MOW PEOPLE DOWN.

BUT THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED ON THE PROMENADE IN 2017.

WE HAVE TO LEARN FROM PREVIOUS TERRORIST TRAGEDIES AND MAKE SURE THE PHYSICAL MEASURES IN PLACE ARE BOTH STATE-OF-THE- ART, IN FACT, WORKING, AND INDEED, ARE ANTICIPATING A VARIETY OF KINDS OF ATTACKS.

>> WHAT OTHER KINDS OF IMPROVEMENTS HAVE HAPPENED WHERE WE HAVE, I GUESS, BETTER RESOLUTION ON A CRIME?

UNFORTUNATELY, NOT BEFORE IT'S HAPPENING, DURING THE CRIME, BUT AFTERWARDS?

>> CERTAINLY DEVELOPMENTS OF ART IF I RECALL INTELLIGENCE, ASSISTING THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY, IN SIFTING THROUGH MATERIAL IN A FAR FASTER RATE USING ALGORITHMS THEY MIGHT HAVE IN THE PAST.

CERTAINLY THERE ARE TREMENDOUS ADVANTAGES IN PROCESSING AND ANALYZING DATA AND OBTAINING THE DATA THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY UNIMAGINABLE FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO.

I WORRY THAT WE'RE BEHIND THE CURVE.

THE BIGGEST THREAT, ONE THAT I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE AN EFFECTIVE ANSWER TO, WHAT ARE CALLED UAS, UNMANNED AERIAL DRONES IN ESSENCE.

UNMANNED VEHICLES.

DRONES WHICH HAVE BEEN USED ON BATTLEFIELDS.

AS WE SAW IN 2023 IN ISRAEL WERE USED TO FACILITATE THE ATTACK FROM GAZA, AND WHICH WE'VE SEEN DRONES BEING USED FOR SURVEILLANCE PURPOSES IN THE UNITED STATES NOW ON NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, INCLUDING THE UNEXPLAINED DEPLOYMENT OF DRONES IN NEW JERSEY JUST LAST MONTH.

AND I'M NOT ENTIRELY SURE THAT OUR DEFENSEIS AGAINST ATTACKS USING THAT TYPE OF WEAPON ARE AS ROBUST AS THEY NEED TO BE.

UNFORTUNATELY, THE HISTORY OF RESPONDING TO TERRORISM IS CLOSING THE BARN DOOR AFTER THE HORSE HAS ALREADY GOTTEN OUT.

THIS IS ONE EXAMPLE OF WHERE WE CAN GET AHEAD OF A THREAT THAT HAS YET TO MATERIALIZE.

>> HAS THE MILITARY BEEN DOING ENOUGH?

OR HAVE THERE BEEN PROGRAMS THAT THE MILITARY HAS ENGAGED IN, GIVEN THAT WE'VE HAD SO MANY INCIDENTS OF VETERANS GOING THROUGH MENTAL ANGUISH OF ALL SORTS?

HOW DOES SUCH AN ENORMOUS FORCE WRAP ITS HANDS AROUND THE PEOPLE THAT ARE STRUGGLING WHO MIGHT STILL BE ACTIVE OR WHO MIGHT BE RETIRED?

WHAT DO WE DO?

>> THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION ACTUALLY HAD A VERY AGGRESSIVE PROGRAM.

A TASK FORCE IN THE PENTAGON THAT LOOKED AT PRECISELY THIS ISSUE AND WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS.

SO THIS PROBLEM, AND THIS PROCLIVITY AMONGST THE SMALL NUMBERS, SMALL PERCENT OF VETERANS TO TAKE TO VIOLENCE FOR WHATEVER REASON HAS BEEN RECOGNIZED AND HAS BEEN UNDERSTOOD.

THE QUESTION IS ALWAYS, HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH?

HOW MUCH MORE NEEDS TO BE DONE GIVEN THAT WE ARE AWARE OF THIS PROBLEM TO BRING THESE KINDS OF SERVICES TO OUR VETERANS?

CERTAINLY THE BOOK THAT MYSELF AND MY CO-AUTHOR WROTE, GOD, GUNS, AND SEDITION, WE FOUND A HIGH PERCENTAGE OF FORMER VETERANS WHO WERE BECOMING INCREASINGLY POLITICALLY ALIENATED, FELT DISENFRANCHISED FROM THE POLITICAL SYSTEM AND INCREASINGLY SAW VIOLENCE AS A SOLUTION, AND PART OF ADDRESSING THAT PROCLIVITY, I THINK, WAS RECOGNIZED IN THE CREATION OF THIS TASK FORCE AT THE PENTAGON WHO WORKED WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM.

>> BRUCE HOFFMAN, HOMELAND SECURITY AT THE COUNCIL FOR FOREIGN RELATIONS, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> YOU'RE VERY WELCOME.

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