“The Anti-Social Century:” Inside America’s Epidemic of Solitude

>>> NOW, WE WERE JUST TALKING.

TIKTOK AND OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS HAVE A SCRUTINY FROM HEALTH EXPERTS FOR INCREASING LONELINESS, PARTICULARLY AMONG TEENAGERS.

AS THE U.S.

SURGEON GENERAL NEARS THE END OF HIS SECOND TERM AS THE NATION'S DR. HIS PARTING PRESCRIPTION IS TO FOSTER A STRONGER SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

DATA FROM HIS DEPARTMENT SHOW AMERICANS ARE HANGING OUT IN PERSON LESS AND LESS WITH EACH PASSING YEAR.

THAT IS THE FOCUS OF DEREK THOMPSON'S LATEST PIECE FOR THE ATLANTIC.

IT IS THE ANTISOCIAL CENTURY.

HE JOINS MICHEL MARTIN TO DISCUSS WHAT CAN BE DONE.

>> THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.

YOUR NEW PIECE COVER STORY FOR THE ATLANTIC IS CALLED THE ANTISOCIAL CENTURY.

YOU SAY THAT THIS SELF-IMPOSED SOLITUDE MIGHT JUST BE THE MOST IMPORTANT SOCIAL FACT OF 21ST- CENTURY AMERICA.

WHY DO YOU SAY THAT?

>> FOR 60 YEARS STATISTICS ASKED AMERICANS HOW THEY SPEND THEIR DAY AND WEEK.

HOW MUCH DO YOU SPEND SLEEPING, EATING FOOD?

WHAT THEY FOUND IS IN THE LAST 20 YEARS IN PARTICULAR THE NUMBER OF AMERICANS OR THE AMOUNT OF TIME AMERICANS SPEND FACE-TO-FACE SOCIALIZING HAS THE CLIENT FOR EVERY SIGNAL DEMOGRAPHIC.

NOT JUST YOUNG PEOPLE OR YOUNG ADULTS OR MIDDLE-AGE PEOPLE OR OLD PEOPLE IT'S ALL AGES.

NOT JUST BLACK OR WHITE IT'S ALL ETHNICITIES.

NOT JUST COLLEGE GRADUATES OR PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T GO, IT'S EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY OF EDUCATION.

EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY YOU COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF DEMOGRAPHICALLY SPEAKING IS SPENDING LESS TIME IN FACE-TO- FACE SOCIALIZING THAN THEY DID 20 YEARS AGO OR REALLY THAN THEY DID 60 YEARS AGO AND THAT'S WHY THE HEADLINE HERE IS WE ARE SPENDING, AMERICANS ARE SPENDING MORE TIME ALONE THAN IN ANY PERIOD FOR WHICH WE HAVE TRUSTWORTHY DATA.

>> YOU ACTUALLY OPEN YOUR PIECE WITH SOMETHING YOU NOTICED IN YOUR OWN TOWN.

WHY DO YOU TELL THAT STORY?

>> AS I WAS WRITING THE ARTICLE MY WIFE AND I AND MY BABY DAUGHTER WENT OUT TO A MEXICAN RESTAURANT HERE AND WE GET IN AROUND 5:00, OUR DAUGHTER EATS DINNER EARLY AND THERE'S NO ONE IN THE RESTAURANT THERE'S A BAR AND THERE ARE NINE LARGE PAPER BAGS ON THE BAR ALONG WITH A SIGN THAT SAYS BAR SEATING CLOSE.

THAT'S INTERESTING THEY CLOSE THE BAR TO BECOME A DEPOT FOR TAKE AWAY FOOD.

OVER THE NEXT HALF HOUR FIVE, 10, 12 PEOPLE WALKING TO THE RESTAURANT, SAY NOTHING TO ANYBODY, GRAB A BAG AND LEAVE.

I THOUGHT THIS IS CRAZY, BUSINESS IS BOOMING FOR THIS RESTAURANT BUT NO ONE IS SITTING DOWN AND NO ONE IS TALKING TO EACH OTHER BECAUSE TAKEAWAY HAS EXCEEDED TABLES AS THE MAIN BUSINESS OF THE RESTAURANT.

I DID SOME RESEARCH AND FOUND OUT ACCORDING TO THE NATIONAL RESTAURANT ASSOCIATION 74% OF ALL TRAFFIC TO RESTAURANTS IN 2023 WAS FOR OFF PREMISES SALES.

THAT IS TAKEAWAY AND DELIVERY.

THAT WAS LIKE WHAT AN INCREDIBLE METAPHOR FOR THIS ANTISOCIAL CENTURY I'M TRYING TO WRITE ABOUT.

THE BAR, THE PLACE WHERE YOU SHOULD BE HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH STRANGERS OR FRIENDS IN YOUR COMMUNITY HAS BEEN CLOSED AND TURNED INTO A SILENT DEPOT WHERE PEOPLE COME AND WITHOUT SAYING A WORD TO EACH OTHER JUST GRAB FOOD SO THEY CAN EAT BACK AT THEIR HOUSE WHEREBY THE WAY THEY SPEND MORE TIME THAN IN ANY OTHER PERIOD FOR WHICH WE HAVE THE DATA.

ONCE I SAW THAT SCENE I THOUGHT IT'S OVER, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST 1000 WORDS OF THE ESSAY.

>> COVID PLAYED A ROLE HERE.

A LOT OF US WERE FORCED TO SPEND TIME ALONE OR NOT GO TO PLACES WE WERE USED TO GOING, BUT YOU SAY THIS GOES BEYOND COVID.

THIS IS A TREND THAT STARTED LONG BEFORE THE COVID PANDEMIC.

>> I THINK IT'S A 60-YEAR-OLD TREND THAT WAS BRIEFLY ACCELERATED BY THE PANDEMIC BUT THERE'S INFORMATION THAT SUGGESTS WE SPEND MORE TIME ALONE IN 2023 THEN WE DID IN 2021 WHEN ALL THE VACCINES ROLLED OUT.

THIS IS SOMETHING BIGGER THAN COVID, EVEN IF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HEAR SOLITUDE AND THINK I SPENT THAT YEAR BASICALLY IN LOCKDOWN OR IN ISOLATION.

WHEN I ROLL BACK THE CLOCK TO THE MIDDLE OF THE 20th CENTURY AND THINK HOW DID THIS HAPPEN ESPECIALLY STARTING THE 1950s AND 60s, THERE'S A FAMOUS BOOK CALLED BOWLING ALONE WHERE HE RESEARCHED THIS QUESTION IN- DEPTH, A BOOK OF HUNDREDS OF PAGES OF RESEARCH.

THE MOST COMPELLING INFORMATION TO ME, THE MOST COMPELLING POINT YOU MADE TO ME ABOUT THE CAUSES OF THE ANTISOCIAL CENTURY IS IN THE 1950s AND 60s YOU SAW THE EMERGENCE OF SEVERAL REALLY IMPORTANT TECHNOLOGIES THAT CHANGED ALL OF OUR LIVES.

YOU HAVE THE CAR WHICH PRIVATIZED OUR LIVES, ALLOWED US TO DRIVE AWAY FROM CITIES TOWARD SUBURBS.

WE SPENT MORE TIME ALONE AT HOME IN OUR BACKYARD.

1950s AND 1960S YOU HAVE POPULARIZATION OF THE TELEVISION .

THE CAR PRIVATIZED OUR LIVES, THE TELEVISION PRIVATIZED OUR LEISURE.

THERE IS EVIDENCE SUGGESTING BETWEEN THE 1960S AND 1990S THE TYPICAL AMERICAN GOT ABOUT SIX EXTRA HOURS OF LEISURE TIME PER WEEK.

WHAT DID WE DO WITH THAT EXTRA 300 HOURS PER YEAR?

ASK YOURSELF OR A FRIEND IF YOU HAD AN EXTRA 300 HOURS PER YEAR WHAT WOULD YOU DO WITH THAT TIME?

LEARN A NEW LANGUAGE, LEARN A NEW INSTRUMENT, PLAY SPORTS?

PEOPLE SPENT ALMOST ALL THE TIME WATCHING TELEVISION.

NOTHING WRONG WITH A LITTLE BIT OF TV BUT 300 EXTRA HOURS OF TV A YEAR IS A LOT.

>> DISINVITES THE QUESTION IS THIS BAD?

YOU SUGGEST IT'S NOT GREAT.

WHAT'S WRONG WITH PEOPLE SPENDING MORE TIME ALONE?

A LOT OF PEOPLE SAY THIS IS ME TIME, I'M REFRESHING MYSELF.

>> IT'S BAD.

LET ME BE CLEAR WHY.

I'M THE FATHER OF A 17 MONTH OLD.

I KNOW AS WELL AS ANYONE HOW PRECIOUS AND FRANKLY HOW CLOSE TO HEAVEN ONE NIGHT ALONE AWAY FROM A SCREAMING BABY CAN BE.

IT IS THE NEXT THING TO GOD.

THAT SAID, AS WITH ANY THERAPEUTIC, THE DOSE MATTERS.

THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SPENDING ONE NIGHT ALONE BETWEEN SAYING I FEEL GREAT ABOUT NOT BEING AROUND PEOPLE TODAY AND NEED TO RECHARGE AND SPENDING MORE TIME ALONE YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR AND DECADE AFTER DECADE AFTER DECADE .

THAT'S WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT.

A KIND OF OVERDOSE ON SOLITUDE.

RESEARCH SUGGESTS IF YOU ASKED PEOPLE HOW MUCH YOU TIME SPEND WITH FOLKS ALONE IN TIME PEOPLE SPEND MORE TIME ALONE TEND TO BE MUCH LESS HAPPY.

5% REDUCTION IN SOCIALIZING TIME REDUCED HAPPINESS AS MUCH AS A 10% REDUCTION IN INCOME.

IF YOU THINK HOW HAPPY WOULD YOU BE IF YOUR BOSS SUDDENLY SAID I'M GOING TO SLASHER SALARY BY 10%, THAT'S THE EFFECT OF JUST A FEW YEARS OF INCREASED ALONE TIME IN AMERICA.

I THINK QUIET IS BLESSED.

I THINK ALONE TIME CAN BE A TRUE SALVE FOR THE SOUL, BUT THE AMOUNT OF SOCIAL ISOLATION THAT PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING IN AMERICA TODAY I THINK IT'S BAD FOR US AS INDIVIDUALS AND BAD FOR US AS A COMMUNITY.

>> YOU SAID SOLITUDE AND LONELINESS ARE NOT THE SAME.

YOU QUOTE THE SOCIOLOGIST THAT SAYS IT'S ACTUALLY A VERY HEALTHY EMOTIONAL RESPONSE TO FEEL SOME LONELINESS.

HOW SHOULD WE THINK ABOUT THIS DIFFERENCE?

SOME OF THE GREAT MORAL THINKERS, RELIGIOUS LEADERS ALL SPENT TIME IN QUIET CONTEMPLATION ALONE.

JESUS, JOHN, BAPTIST MOSES, BUDDHA, THEY ALL SPENT TIME THINKING ALONE BUT YOU'RE SAYING THERE'S SOMETHING THAT GOES BEYOND THAT.

YOU CALL IT ANTISOCIAL.

>> I WANT TO MAKE TWO POINTS.

WHAT YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT JESUS AND JOHN THE BAPTIST WAS GALVANIZING.

THE FIRST POINT IS ON LONELINESS , I THINK LONELINESS CAN BE HEALTHY.

LONELINESS IS THE EXPERIENCE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE AMOUNT OF SOCIAL CONNECTION YOU HAVE AND THE AMOUNT OF SOCIAL CONNECTION YOU WANT TO HAVE.

MANY TIMES WE FEEL AT THE END OF A WEEK OR A FEW WEEKS I'M FEELING KIND OF LONELY I WANT TO REACH OUT TO A FRIEND.

I WANT TO SEE SOMEONE AND GET A DRINK.

THAT'S A WONDERFUL HEALTHY FEELING.

WHAT WE ARE EXPANDING INSTEAD I'M AFRAID WITH DECADE AFTER DECADE OF RISING ALONENESS IS THE OPPOSITE OF LONELINESS.

LONELINESS IS THE INSTINCT TO BE AROUND PEOPLE, BUT FOR MANY IN PARTICULAR YOUNG PEOPLE TODAY I SEE THE INSTINCT TO BE WITH YOURSELF.

TO HAVE ME TIME FOLLOWED BY ME TIME FOLLOWED BY ME TIME, THAT'S NOT RESPONDING TO LONELINESS, THAT SOMETHING ELSE.

THE SECOND THING I WANT TO SAY IS IN FINISHING THIS PIECE I WAS WATCHING A VIDEO THAT THE AUTHOR MADE TALKING ABOUT THE DEATH OF QUIET IN AMERICA AND HOW PEOPLE JUST CAN'T BE BY THEMSELVES IN THE QUIET ANYMORE.

I THINK TO A CERTAIN EXTENT THE PHONE CONTAMINATES OUR QUIET.

IF JESUS WENT AWAY FOR HIS DAYS IN THE DESERT AND HAD A PHONE ON HIM AND WAS CONSTANTLY CHECKING BACK ON ROMAN TWITTER I DON'T THINK HE WOULD HAVE OTHER ELEVATIONS HE HAD BECAUSE HE WOULD BE SUCKED INTO THE CROWD.

I'M BEING FACETIOUS BUT IT'S IMPORTANT FOR SOLITUDE TO BE TRULY QUIET, BUT ONE THING I THINK THESE PHONES DO IS THEY MAKE OUR TIME IN CROWDS FEEL A LITTLE BIT MORE ALONE BECAUSE WE CAN ALWAYS PULL OUT OUR PALMS AND LOOKED DOWN INTO OUR PALM AND BE AWAY FROM A CROWD.

THEY ALSO MAKE OUR SOLITUDE MORE CROWDED.

WE CAN BE HOME ALONE WANTING TO RECHARGE AND HAVE GREAT THOUGHTS OR LOOK INSIDE OF OURSELVES AND WE CAN'T HELP BUT PULL OUT OUR PHONES AND DIP INTO SOCIAL MEDIA AND BECOME CONTAMINATED BY CROWD THINK.

I THINK THERE'S A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE KIND OF QUIET SOLITUDE THAT CAN BE TRULY REPLENISHING AND THE KIND OF SOLITUDE MOST PEOPLE EXPERIENCE WHEN THEY ARE ON THEIR COUCHES FLICKING ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

>> WE SAY THIS ALL THE TIME WE ARE SOCIAL BEINGS.

I'M WONDERING HOW IT HAPPENED?

WERE THESE CONSCIOUS CHOICES PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MAKING FOR THEMSELVES OR HAVE THEIR CIRCUMSTANCES DICTATED THIS AND WE'VE ADAPTED TO IT?

>> THE SOCIOLOGIST QUOTED TOLD ME AT ONE POINT DURING MY REPORTING THAT WE DO CHOOSE BUT WE DON'T CHOOSE THE SET OF OPTIONS THAT WE HAVE.

I THINK OUR BUILT ENVIRONMENT IN THIS CASE SHAPE OUR CHOICES.

I THINK IT'S MEANINGFUL THAT WHILE WE HAVE BEEN TALKING RIGHTLY ABOUT THE WAYS OUR INNER LIVES HAVE CHANGED WITH THE RISE OF TELEVISION AND SMARTPHONES THERE'S BEEN PHYSICAL WORLD CHANGES AS WE DRIVE OUT TO THE SUBURBS, WE LIVE FURTHER AWAY, THE AMOUNT OF SOCIAL INFRASTRUCTURE BUILT IN THE COUNTRY IN THE LAST 50 YEARS CLEARLY DECLINED FROM ITS PEAK MAYBE IN THE 1950s AND 1960S.

THERE'S ENVIRONMENT CHANGES THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT, BUT I ALSO THINK MAYBE PEOPLE DON'T FULLY RECOGNIZE WHAT THEY ARE CHOOSING WHEN THEY MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THEIR LIFE.

WHEN WE STAY AT HOME AND WATCH NETFLIX OR ORDER AND WHO HASN'T DONE THAT?

I ORDER FOOD TO EAT HERE AT HOME ALL THE TIME.

WHEN WE MAKE THOSE CHOICES WE AREN'T CALCULATING IN THAT MOMENT HERE'S THE HOURS NOT WITH OTHER PEOPLE, HERE'S OTHER HOURS NOT SPENT WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

WHEN I WANTED TO DO WITH THIS AS A IS TO HOLD UP A MIRROR TO AMERICA AND SAY HERE ARE THE CHOICES YOU'RE MAKING EVERY DAY TO SURROUND YOURSELF WITH ENTERTAINMENT, TO BE IN YOUR HOME LONGER AND OUR HOMES ARE MORE COMFORTABLE THAN HE USED TO BE COMING HERE'S A SET OF CHOICES WE ARE MAKING AND HERE IS THE BILL THAT IS COME DUE.

THE BILL THAT IS COME DUE IS HISTORIC AMOUNTS OF ALONE TIME IN WAYS I THINK ARE CHANGING OUR PERSONALITY AND CHANGING OUR POLITICS.

I DON'T KNOW THAT PEOPLE ARE FULLY COGNIZANT OF THE COSTS OF THE CHOICES THEY'RE MAKING.

MY HOPE IS THIS HELPS THEM TO SEE THE RECEIPT, THE BILL SO TO SPEAK OF THOSE CHOICES.

>> WHAT ABOUT OTHER COST YOU SEE AS BEING THE PRICE OF ALL THIS?

WHAT ARE SOME OF THE CONSEQUENCES YOU SEE?

>> YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INDIVIDUAL COST.

WE HAVE A LOT OF GOOD DATA THAT SUGGESTS YOUNG PEOPLE HAVE FEWER FRIENDS OF THE USED TO HAVE, GO OUT WITH HIS FRIENDS LESS THAN THEY USED TO AND I THINK THAT'S A MAJOR PROBLEM.

I THINK POLITICALLY IT'S CREATING MAJOR PROBLEMS.

I TALKED TO A BROWN UNIVERSITY RESEARCHER AND AUTHOR, THEY MADE A COMPELLING POINT THAT YOU MAY THINK ABOUT IT IN AN IRONIC WAY THAT IN THE AGE OF THE PHONE OUR FAMILIES ARE TIGHTER THAN THEY USED TO BE.

I TEXT MY WIFE ALL THE TIME AND PEOPLE ARE IN TOUCH WITH THEIR KIDS MORE THAN THEY USED TO BE.

THE INNER RING A FAMILY IS VERY TIGHT AND YOU CAN THINK OF AN OUTER RING, A TRIBE WHERE I'M VERY IN TOUCH WITH PEOPLE WHO SHARE MY IDEAS ABOUT ALONENESS OR ECONOMICS OR POLITICS WHETHER IT'S ON TWITTER OR EMAIL OR GROUP TEXT.

ANYWAY YOU HAVE THIS WEIRD SITUATION WHERE THE INNER RING A FAMILY IS STRENGTHENED AND THE OUTER RING OF TRIBE IS STRENGTHENED BUT THERE IS A MIDDLE RING, THE VILLAGE.

THE PEOPLE WE LIVE NEXT TO, NEIGHBORS, THE PEOPLE IN OUR TOWNS AND WE DON'T KNOW THEM AS WELL AS WE USED TO.

THE REASON I THINK THAT MATTERS IS WELL FAMILY TEACHES US TO LOVE AND WHILE THE TRIBE TEACHES US LOYALTY OR IDEOLOGY I THINK THE VILLAGE TEACHES US TOLERANCE.

IT IS INSTRUCTIVE OF TOLERANCE TO BE AROUND PEOPLE THAT YOU'RE NOT RELATED TO, THAT YOU DISAGREE WITH ABOUT THINGS BECAUSE YOU LEARN YOU CAN DISAGREE WITH PEOPLE WHILE STILL SEEING THEM AS FULLY HUMAN.

IN THE ABSENCE OF A STRONG VILLAGE-BASED CULTURE IN THIS COUNTRY I THINK YOU GET POLITICIANS LIKE DONALD TRUMP WHO ARE IN ALL TRIBE NO VILLAGE AVATAR OF POLITICS AND I THINK YOU HAVE PARTIES THAT DON'T UNDERSTAND EACH OTHER AND WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER.

THERE'S SOME POLLS SUGGESTING REPUBLICAN TEENAGERS SAY THEY WILL NEVER TAKE A DEMOCRAT AND DEMOCRATIC TEENAGERS ARE MORE LIKELY TO SAY THEY WILL NEVER DATE A REPUBLICAN.

THAT'S A WORLD WHERE WE HAVE TIGHT FAMILIES AND TIGHT TRIBES AND WE DON'T KNOW EACH OTHER AT THE LEVEL OF THE VILLAGE.

>> ONE THING YOU SAID EARLIER AS WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOLITUDE AND LONELINESS.

LONELINESS IS A WISH FOR COMPANY AND IT MAKES ME WONDER WHY DON'T THESE PEOPLE GO OUT AND DO SOMETHING?

>> I DON'T HAVE A PERFECT ANSWER BUT I HAVE A THEORY.

I THINK WE ARE DISNEY VAULT TO LIVE IN THIS ATTENTION ENVIRONMENT.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY STIMULATED BY NOVELTY AND ENTERTAINMENT AND IF WE ARE ON THE INTERNET AND IN SOME POLITICAL MESSAGING AREA, OUTRAGE AND OUTGROUP ANIMOSITY.

YOU OPEN UP YOUR PHONE AND YOU'RE IMMEDIATELY BOMBARDED WITH THE STIMULUS THEY GET YOUR DOPAMINE GOING.

I DON'T THINK WE SPENT ENOUGH TIME IN THIS NEW INTENTIONAL ECOSYSTEM TO LEARN WHAT TO DO WITH IT.

MANY TIMES I THINK PEOPLE FIND THEMSELVES SO OVERWHELMED BY THE AMOUNT OF DOPAMINE AND CORTISOL THEY GET GOING CHEMICALLY WHEN THEY'RE ON THEIR PHONES AND COMPUTERS THAT IT SOMEWHAT EXHAUSTS THEM.

THEY PUT THEIR PHONE DOWN AND CLOSE THE COMPUTER OR MAYBE A FRIEND REACHES OUT, THEY ARE LIKE I'M EXHAUSTED.

I DON'T WANT TO GET A DRINK.

I'M TOTALLY .

I SPENT ALL THIS TIME FEELING ANGRY AND CORTISOL RUSHING THROUGH MY VEINS, I WANT TO JUST A HOME.

I THINK IT IS POSSIBLE WE ARE, TRAGICALLY, SAPPING OUR RELATIONSHIP WITH OTHER PEOPLE BECAUSE WE ARE DUMPING ALL OF OUR DOPAMINE AT OUR SCREENS.

WE ARE WASTING OUR DOPAMINE HAVING THESE LOW-RENT VERSIONS OF SOCIAL INTERACTIONS THROUGH A SCREEN WHEN WE COULD HAVE A MUCH HIGHER QUALITY EXPERIENCE WE SOMETIMES FIND A WAY TO PUT THESE THINGS DOWN.

TO THE QUESTION WHY DON'T WE PUT THESE THINGS DOWN, IT'S BECAUSE WE ARE DISNEY VAULT TO KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THESE THINGS.

THEY ARE SO GOOD AT CAPTURING ONE PART OF WHAT MAKES US HUMAN WHICH IS OUR SENSITIVITY TO NOVELTY AND ENVIRONMENT THAT WE FORGET THIS OTHER PART OF BEING HUMAN WHICH IS BEING THERE FOR EACH OTHER.

>> WHAT IS THE ANSWER BESIDE PUT YOUR PHONE DOWN?

>> THE STRANGE THING ABOUT THE PRESCRIPTION TO THIS DISEASE IS IT IS SIMULTANEOUSLY THE EASIEST AND HARDEST ANSWER IN THE WORLD.

EASY BECAUSE THE ANTIDOTE TO LONELINESS IS FREE AND OBVIOUS, IT'S BEING WITH OTHER PEOPLE.

THE PROBLEM IS BEING WITH OTHER PEOPLE CAN BE A COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM.

IT'S HARD IF FOLKS AROUND YOU ARE NOT HANGING OUT WITH EACH OTHER.

IT'S HARD TO START A NEW RITUAL LIKE DINNER PARTIES FOR YOUR FRIENDS IF YOUR FRIENDS NEVER GO OUT TO DINNER PARTIES.

IT'S A COLLECTIVE ACTION PROBLEM AND DIFFICULT TO SOLVE, BUT I'M OPTIMISTIC WE CAN SOLVE IT.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CULTURE AND SCIENCE IS SCIENCE IS A STORY THAT TENDS TO MOVE IN ONE DIRECTION.

DRUGS GET BETTER AND BETTER AND BETTER, CULTURE IS THIS.

CULTURE IS PROGRESS AND BACKLASH AND PROGRESS AND BACKLASH AND WHAT IS THE COOLEST TYPE OF GENES, ARE THEY SKINNY?

THAT IS CULTURE.

WE'VE HAD DECADES WITH AN ANTISOCIAL CENTURY BUT THEY ARE PRECEDED BY DECADES WITH A VERY SOCIAL CENTURY IN THE EARLY 1900S WE HAD RISING RATES OF MARRIAGE AND FERTILITY AND UNION MEMBERSHIP AND ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF CLUB ASSOCIATIONS.

WE HAD A MORAL REVOLUTION IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE CAN HAVE ANOTHER MORAL REVOLUTION IN THIS COUNTRY BUT IT BEGINS WITH THE OBSERVATION WITH THE SELF- DIAGNOSIS THAT WE ARE DOING THIS TO OURSELVES.

THIS IS A DISEASE WE ARE GIVING OURSELVES, THAT'S THE BAD NEWS.

THE GOOD NEWS IS WE ALL HAVE THE QR, WE KNOW HOW TO BE WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND WE CAN DO IT MORE.

>> THANK YOU FOR TALKING WITH US.