“The Highest Calling:” David Rubenstein Reflects on the American Presidency

>> OUR NEXT GUEST TAKES A WIDER LOOK INTO A VARIETY OF AMERICAN PRESIDENCIES, HIS BOOK, THE HIGHEST CALLING, CONVERSATIONS ON THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY.

THE RENOWNED BUSINESSMAN AND FINANCE THERAPIST DAVID RUBENSTEIN INTERVIEWED SOME OF THE GREATEST POLITICAL FIGURES FROM LIVING AMERICAN PRESIDENTS TO TOP HISTORIANS AND JOURNALISTS AND JOINS ALTAR ISAACSON TO DISCUSS THE LIVES AND LEGACIES OF THOSE WHO OCCUPIED AMERICA'S HIGHEST OFFICE.

>> THANK YOU CHRISTIANE.

DAVID RUBENSTEIN, WELCOME BACK TO THE SHOW.

>> MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> ON THIS BOOK ABOUT THE INTERESTING PRESIDENTS YOU INTERVIEWED A LOT OF HISTORIANS AND SOMETIMES HE STARTED BY ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT WHY DID YOU WRITE ABOUT THIS PRESIDENT SO LET ME THROW THIS BACK AT YOU.

WHY DID YOU WRITE A BOOK ABOUT THE PRESIDENCY?

>> WHAT I SAID AT THE BEGINNING, WHY DO WE NEED ANOTHER BOOK ON THE PRESIDENCY IS BECAUSE THERE HAVE BEEN AN INFINITE NUMBER OF THEM.

I CAN'T SAY MINE WILL CHANGE THE WORLD BUT WHAT I WAS HOPING TO DO IS SHOW HOW THE PRESIDENTS REPUTATIONS CHANGE AND HOW IT'S IMPORTANT TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT OUR PRESIDENT AND MOST IMPORTANTLY I WANT PEOPLE TO GET EXCITED ABOUT PRESIDENTS AND VOTE.

WE HAVE 160 MILLION PEOPLE WHO VOTED IN THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION BUT 80 MILLION PEOPLE WHO WERE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE CHOSE NOT TO AND I'M HOPING MORE PEOPLE WILL VOTE THIS TIME AND I THINK OUR DEMOCRACY WILL BE STRONGER IF MORE PEOPLE VOTED.

>> CALLED THE PRESIDENCY THE GREATEST CALLING IT WASN'T REALLY THAT IN OUR EARLY HISTORY.

EVEN GEORGE WASHINGTON WASN'T CONSIDERED TO BE MORE THAN ONE OF THREE BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

WHY DO YOU CALL THIS THE GREATEST CALLING AND HOW DID IT BECOME THIS?

>> WHEN HE BECAME PRESIDENT WE HAVE 3 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY AND WEREN'T EXACTLY A GLOBAL POWER AND BEING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WASN'T THOUGHT TO BE THE GREATEST THING IN THE WORLD.

GEORGE WASHINGTON DIDN'T WANT TO BE THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND HAD TURNED IT DOWN FOR SOME TIME BUT WHEN WOODROW WILSON WENT TO PARIS TO HELP NEGOTIATE THE TREATY OF VERSAILLES HE WAS TREATED LIKE A GOD AND HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE IN PARIS CHEERED HIM ON.

THE FIRST TIME THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES LEFT THE COUNTRY AS A PRESIDENT OF THE FIRST TIME I THINK THE WORLD SAW THE MOST IMPORTANT MAN IN THE WORLD WERE PERSON IN THE WORLD, THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

WHILE HE WAS SUCCEEDED BY PEOPLE WHO WASN'T AS PROMINENT LIKE LET'S SAY HARDING OR COOLIDGE WHEN FDR BECAME PRESIDENT IT WAS CLEAR MOST IMPORTANT PERSON IN THE UNITED STATES AND THE WORLD IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND THAT'S WHY SAY THIS IS THE HIGHEST CALLING RESUMING SO MANY PEOPLE SPEND SO MUCH TIME TRYING TO BECOME THE PRESIDENT AND POINTING OUT IN THE BOOK PEOPLE SPENT A COUPLE OF YEARS IN THEIR LIFE TRYING TO BECOME PRESIDENT AND OUR CURRENT PRESIDENT SPENT 47 YEARS OF HIS LIFE THINKING ABOUT BECOMING PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND YOU SAY TO YOURSELF WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO DO THIS?

JOHN KENNEDY WAS ASSASSINATED AND LYNDON JOHNSON WAS DRIVEN FROM OFFICE AND RICHARD NIXON HAD TO RESIGN AND GERALD FORD COULDN'T GET REELECTED.

RONALD REAGAN WAS ASSASSINATED OR ALMOST ASSASSINATED SO WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT THE JOB?

IT'S THE HIGHEST CALLING ARE PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH WHEN YOU ARE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES AND PEOPLE CANNOT RESIST THIS POWER.

>> ONE OF THE REPUTATIONAL CHANGES THAT STRUCK ME IN THE BOOK IS YOU'VE GOT A GREAT WRITER WHO WROTE ABOUT CALVIN COOLIDGE WHOSE REPUTATION SEEMS TO BE COMING BACK UP.

EXPLAIN THIS TO ME.

>> WHEN RONALD REAGAN BECAME PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES HE TOOK COOLIDGE HIS PORTRAIT AND PUT IT IN THE CABINET ROOM BECAUSE HE ADMIRED WHAT HE STOOD FOR.

HE BELIEVED THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT COULD SOLVE ALL OF OUR PROBLEMS AND BELIEVE THERE SHOULD BE A BALANCED BUDGET WHICH IS RARE AND BELIEVED THAT THERE SHOULD BE I WOULD SAY REDUCE FEDERAL EXPENDITURES IN CERTAIN TYPES OF AREAS AND DIDN'T BELIEVE IN TALKING TOO MUCH THERE WAS A PERSON WHO SAID TO HIM I BET SOMEONE ELSE THAT I COULD GET YOU TO SAY MORE THAN TWO WORDS THAT HE SAID YOU LOSE.

HE WAS A DIFFERENT PERSON.

HE COULD HAVE BEEN ELECTED ALMOST CERTAINLY TO ANOTHER TERM BUT CHOSE TO GO BACK TO HIS NATIVE NEW HAMPSHIRE AND REMAIN THERE OR NATIVE VERMONT I SHOULD SAY AND REMAIN THERE.

HE WAS A PERSON WHO I THINK ADMIRED BY MANY PEOPLE INCLUDING THE PERSON I INTERVIEWED BECAUSE HE DID NOT TRY TO BRAG ABOUT HIMSELF OR GET THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO DO MORE THAN IT SHOULD DO AND HE WAS TRYING TO BALANCE THE BUDGET, A UNIQUE THING WHICH IS UNCOMMON THESE DAYS.

>> HE TALKS ABOUT FRANKLIN D ROOSEVELT AND JUST AS OTHERS HAVE DONE TALKED ABOUT HOW POLIO WAS SO IMPORTANT OTHERWISE HE MIGHT HAVE JUST BECOME A PLAYBOY.

EXPLAIN WHY OVERCOMING ADVERSITY IS PART OF BECOMING A PRESIDENT?

>> HIS THEORY IS THAT FDR WAS A NICE MAN BUT NOT CONSIDERED AN INTELLECTUAL GIANT BY HIS PEERS OR MUCH OF A LEADER AND CERTAINLY KIND OF A PERSON WHO WAS NEVER GOING TO AMOUNT TO MUCH AS HIS PEERS MAY HAVE THOUGHT BUT WHEN HE CONTRACTED POLIO, SUDDENLY HE RECEIVED MORE GRIT AND DETERMINATION TO FIGHT THE POLIO AND IT'S POINTED OUT IN THE INTERVIEW IF HE HAD BETTER DOCTORS AND THEY RECOGNIZED IT AT THE OUTSET HE MIGHT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WALK AGAIN BUT HE HAD POOR TREATMENT FROM 30 DAYS BEFORE THEY RECOGNIZED WHAT IT WAS AND AS A RESULT HE COULD NEVER WALK AGAIN BUT HE USED GRIT AND DETERMINATION TO PULL HIMSELF BACK INTO THE LIMELIGHT OF POLITICAL LIGHT THAT IT PROBABLY MADE HIM A STRONGER PERSON WHICH I THINK I AGREE WITH, HAD HE NOT HAD POLIO FDR MAY HAVE NOT HAVE BEEN PRESIDENT OR HAVE THE GRIT TO DO THE THINGS YOU HAVE TO DO TO BECOME THE PRESIDENT OR BE A GOOD PRESIDENT.

>> YOU BEGAN A FEEL FOR IT IN ASSOCIATION WITH THE U.S. PRESIDENCY AS A MID-LEVEL DOMESTIC POLICY ADVISOR FOR JIMMY CARTER AND HE TOLD A GREAT STORY OF INAUGURATION DAY WERE YOU GOT TO GO TO THE WHITE HOUSE FIRST BECAUSE NO ONE ELSE IS RUNNING THE SHOP.

TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO WORK WITH CARTER AND WHAT DID YOU FEEL WHEN YOU WENT INTO THE WHITE HOUSE FOR THE FIRST TIME?

>> I CAME FROM A BLUE-COLLAR BACKGROUND.

MY PARENTS WEREN'T COLLEGE OR HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATED AND THE IDEA THAT THREE YEARS OUT OF THE LAW SCHOOL I'M WORKING IN THE WHITE HOUSE WAS SURPRISING TO MY PARENTS AND MY FRIENDS I'D GROWN UP WITH AND IT WAS SURPRISING TO ME.

I HAD TO PINCH MYSELF EVERYDAY WHEN I WORKED IN THE WHITE HOUSE.

THERE'S NOTHING LIKE THE THRILL OF WORKING AT THE WHITE HOUSE AS AN ADVISOR BECAUSE YOU'RE AT THE CENTER OF POWER MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS FOR PRESIDENT WHICH WILL LIKELY AFFECT A LOT OF PEOPLE'S LIVES.

I DIDN'T TAKE A DAY OFF FOR FOUR YEARS.

I ENJOYED IT AND IT WAS A HIGHLIGHT OF MY LIFE.

THE STORY YOU ARE REFERRING TO IS I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST PEOPLE IN THE WHITE HOUSE BUT I DID KNOW HOW TO GET INTO THE WHITE HOUSE AND I FORGOT TO GET CLEARED IN SO HAD THERE BEEN AN EMERGENCY DURING THAT FIRST HOUR OR TWO WE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD ANYONE TO COVER IT.

>> PRESIDENT CARTER IS NOW REACHING HIS 100th BIRTHDAY AND HE IS IN HOSPICE CARE.

TELL ME, PERSONALLY, WOULD YOU THINK OF HIM AND YOU THINK HIS REPUTATION IS DUE TO BEING INCREASED?

>> HIS REPUTATION WILL GET BETTER FOR TWO REASONS.

ONE, HIS POST PRESENT HE PRESIDENCY HAS BEEN SPECTACULAR AND POST PRESIDENT 44 YEARS, 11 TIMES AS MUCH TIME TO DO THINGS AND HE'S DONE A SPECTACULAR THING AS PRESIDENT.

HE'S WON THE NOBEL PEACE PRIZE FOR THINGS HE DID AFTER HE LEFT HIS PRESIDENCY AND AS A PRESIDENT HE GOT MORE DONE THAN PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THIS TIME.

CARTER GOT ENORMOUS NUMBERS OF THINGS THROUGH CONGRESS BUT BECAUSE HE PROPOSED SO MANY MORE HE DIDN'T GET CREDIT FOR AS MUCH AS BEING SUCCESSFUL AND HE WAS TRYING TO GET TOO MANY THINGS DONE AND GOT MANY OF THEM DONE THE PEOPLE THOUGHT HE WAS A BIT OF A FAILURE BECAUSE HE DIDN'T GET MANY OF HIS THINGS DONE OR GET THE HOSTAGES OUT, HAD HE GOTTEN THE HOSTAGES OUT DURING HIS TERM AS PRESIDENT I THINK HE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN REELECTION.

>> GEORGE HW BUSH, HE HAD A SUCCESSFUL ONE TERM AS PRESIDENT IN OTHER WORDS HE COMPROMISED ON TAXES WHICH PROBABLY DIDN'T HELP HIS REELECTION BID BUT IT DID HELP THE ECONOMY AND BROUGHT US TO A SAFE LANDING.

AFTER THE BERLIN WALL FELT AFTER SPIKING A BALL TO THE END ZONE AND PURSUED THE FIRST GULF WAR AND A WAY THAT GOT US IN AND OUT RATHER THAN A LONG-TERM WAR.

WHY DID HE NOT GET REELECTED AND WILL HISTORY TREAT HIM BETTER?

>> I THINK HE DIDN'T GET REELECTED FOR A COUPLE OF REASONS.

HE WENT BACK ON HIS WORD THAT HE WOULD INCREASE TAXES CLOSER TO A SMALLER DEFICIT HE DID AGREE TO INCREASE TAXES AND WENT ON TO A COMMITTEE HE MADE.

HE WAS PERCEIVED AT THE TIME WE WERE IN A RECESSION WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT WHILE WE WERE NOT IN RECESSION THERE WAS A PERCEPTION AND THAT WAS A PROBLEM AND I THINK THAT HE WAS DEALT A DIFFICULT BLOW BY SOMEONE RUNNING AGAINST HIM FOR A YEAR OR SO, ROSS PEROT.

HE WAS A BUSINESSMAN WHO RAN AS AN INDEPENDENT AND WELL HE DIDN'T GET ANY ELECTORAL VOTES HE GOT 19% OF THE POPULAR VOTE BUT SPENT MOST OF HIS TIME RAILING AGAINST GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH WHICH WAS A PROBLEM.

BUSH IS YOU PROBABLY POINTED OUT, HE HEADED THE COLD WAR PEACEFULLY AND HELPED UNITE GERMANY WITHOUT A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH RUSSIA AT THE TIME WHICH WAS CONTROVERSIAL TO REUNITE GERMANY AND MOST IMPORTANTLY HE DID THE KUWAIT WAR IN A WAY THAT SHOWS PEOPLE HOW TO WAGE MASSIVE WARS, WE WON DECISIVELY WE GOT OUT AND ACCOMPLISHED OUR MISSION.

>> GEORGE W. BUSH MADE A LOT OF DECISIONS DURING HIS PRESIDENCY WHICH WERE HOTLY DISPUTED DURING HIS TIME .

DID HE INDICATE TO YOU IN HIS DISCUSSION ANYTHING THAT HE HAD SECOND THOUGHTS ON?

>> HE HAD SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT THE INVASION OF IRAQ AND I THINK HE FELT THAT HAD HE KNOWN ABOUT THERE WERE NO MASS DESTRUCTION WEAPONS HE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE INVADED HE SECURED HIS POSITION SO THERE ARE MANY THINGS HE WOULD NOT GUESS.

HE WAS CRITICAL OF THE IDEA OF BAILING OUT THE BANKS AND THOUGHT THIS WAS ANTITHETICAL TO EVERYTHING HE STOOD FOR.

EVERYTHING IS WORKED OUT IN THE ECONOMY RECOVERED BUT I THINK THAT HE HAD SECOND THOUGHTS ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS A GOOD IDEA NOW HE THINKS IT PROBABLY DID WORK AND AS TO THE WAR ON IRAQ YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THAT FOREVER.

HE'S NOT GOING TO SAY HE MADE A TERRIBLE MISTAKE HE'S JUST GOING TO SAY HAD HE KNOWN THINGS THE CIRCUMSTANCE OF INDIFFERENCE HE MIGHT HAVE DONE A DIFFERENT THING.

IS HAVING TROUBLE SECOND- GUESSING HIMSELF.

>> YOU INTERVIEWED DONALD TRUMP AND MARA LONGO AT THE DAY OF ONE OF HIS TRIALS.

WHAT WAS THAT INTERVIEW LIKE?

>> OF INTERVIEWED HIM BEFORE HE TOLD ME IN AN INTERVIEW THAT HE WOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT AND I SAID PRESIDENT OF WHAT?

I COULDN'T BELIEVE HE WAS GOING TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, I WAS SURPRISED AS MANY WERE.

WHILE MANY PEOPLE ARE CRITICAL OF HIM HE'S BEEN THE NOMINEE OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY THREE TIMES IN A ROW.

NO ONE ELSE HAS DONE THAT SO HE OBVIOUSLY HAS SOME FLAIR FOR CONNECTING WITH PEOPLE THAT'S HARD TO PUT YOUR FINGER ON BUT HE HAS THE ABILITY TO POSSIBLY BE ELECTED AS PRESIDENT AND I WOULDN'T RULE OUT HIS ELECTION.

DONALD TRUMP, WHEN YOU INTERVIEW HIM HE'S OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT THAN OTHERS AND HE MIGHT SAY THINGS OTHERS MIGHT DISAGREE WITH BUT HE'S NEVER IN DOUBT.

NEVER IN DOUBT ABOUT HIS VIEWS.

>> YOU INTERVIEWED PRESIDENT BIDEN NOT TOO LONG AGO.

IT WAS THE FULL HOUR, JUST THE TWO OF YOU IN THE OVAL OFFICE.

TELL ME WHAT HE WAS LIKE AND WHAT TYPE OF FEELINGS WAS HE HAVING ABOUT WHAT WAS HAPPENING POLITICALLY.

>> HE EXPECTED TO BE THE NOMINEE OF THE PARTY THIS INTERVIEW OCCURRED BEFORE HE DECIDED NOT TO PURSUE THE NOMINATION.

I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR A LONG TIME HE WAS THE FIRST UNITED STATES SENATOR TO ENDORSE JIMMY CARTER MY FORMER BOSS AND I HAD KNOWN HIM IN MANY DIFFERENT CONTEXTS IN WASHINGTON DC AND I'VE BEEN THE CHAIRMAN OF THE KENNEDY CENTER AND THE CHAIRMAN OF THE SMITHSONIAN TO THINK ABOUT IT HE WAS ELECTED TO THE SENATE WHEN HE WAS 29 1/2.

HIS WIFE DIES AND DAUGHTER DIES IN A TRAGIC ACCIDENT AND HE ALMOST DOESN'T BECOME SENATOR HE WANTS TO SAY AT HOME WITH HIS SONS BECOMES TO BE SENATOR.

HE FINALLY MAKES IT AT AN OLDER AGE, 78 AND HAS FOUR YEARS AS PRESIDENT.

HE HAD SIGNIFICANT THINGS THROUGH LIKE THE CHIPS ACT AND DEALT WITH VARIOUS ISSUES ON OTHER THINGS BUT I THINK HE WOULD PREFER TO HAVE ANOTHER TERM BUT IN THE END THAT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.

IT WAS A PLEASANT TIME AND OBVIOUSLY THE TIME WHEN YOU INTERVIEW HIM WHEN HE'S MOST EXCITED TALKING ABOUT HIS FAMILY AND HIS PARENTS AND WHEN YOU TALK TO HIM ABOUT HIS MOTHER AND FATHER HE REALLY LIGHTS UP AND IS AN INCREDIBLE INDIVIDUAL AND I THINK WHY SOME OF YOU PEOPLE OVER SO MANY YEARS THOUGHT HE SHOULD BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

HE'S AN INTERESTING PERSON AND VERY NICE TO INTERVIEW AND SOMEONE THAT I ENJOYED GETTING TO KNOW.

>> ONE OF THE BIG POLITICAL QUESTIONS OF COURSE WAS HIS AGE WITH HIS AGE WAS CATCHING UP WITH THEM.

HE, TO WHAT EXTENT, DID YOU FEEL HE WAS GETTING OLDER FROM THE PERSON YOU HAD KNOWN FOR DECADES?

>> I DIDN'T SEE THE PROBLEMS THAT APPEARED IN THE DEBATE .

IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN DUE TO A NUMBER OF THINGS AND CLEARLY, PEOPLE AGE A BIT, I'M NOW 75 AND I WAS DOING THIS INTERVIEW AT 65 AND I MIGHT BE ABLE TO DO A BETTER JOB THAN I DID TODAY.

I DON'T SEE THAT HE'S AGED ANYMORE THAN A NORMAL AGING PROCESS WOULD HAVE OCCUR BUT AGAIN I'M NOT A DOCTOR.

WE PUT THE ENTIRE INTERVIEW IN THE BOOK WE DID NOT DID IT EDIT IT OUT SO I THINK YOU DID A GOOD JOB.

IT'S A LITTLE MORE COMPLICATED THAN DOING AN INTERVIEW IN FRONT OF ME.

>> HOW WHICH IS THE PRESIDENT AND SAW THAT THE VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE TIM WALZ WAS SAYING MAYBE WE SHOULD GET RID OF THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE.

TELL ME WHAT REFORM DO YOU THINK THERE SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT BE?

>> BE A GOOD THING TO GET RID OF.

>> WE CREATED THESE ELECTORS.

>> THOSE WHO ELECTED PRESIDENT WHO WON A MINORITY OF THE POPULAR VOTE.

I THINK THAT'S NOT AS DEMOCRATIC AS WE WOULD LIKE BUT TO BE REALISTIC THAT WON'T CHANGE IT TAKES TWO THIRDS OF EACH HOUSE OF THREE QUARTERS OF EACH STATE TO GET A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT SO I THINK I PREFER TO FOCUS ON THINGS MORE REALISTIC AND I THINK IT BE BETTER IF WE HAD LIMITS ON WHAT PRESIDENT COULD DO FINANCIALLY AS PRESIDENT WITH NO LIMITS ON THAT NOW AND NO LIMITS ON WHAT HE OR SHE COULD DO, THE FIRST FINANCIAL ASSETS, KENNEDY PUT HIS ASSETS IN A TRUST.

CARTER DID AS WELL AND IF YOU ARE A CABINET OFFICER YOU HAVE TO PUT YOUR ASSETS IN A TRUST.

THEY COULD BE GOOD IF WE HAD MORE DISCLOSURE ON HEALTH.

THEY GAVE A PRO FORMA OR A DESCRIPTION BUT NOT VERY MUCH.

I THINK IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT WOULD FIND A WAY TO GET TOGETHER AND MAYBE COMBINE THEIR COLLECTIVE EXPERIENCE IN SOME WAY TO HELP THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW WE DON'T HAVE A MECHANISM FOR DOING THAT BUT I THINK THAT THIS WOULD BE NOT A BAD IDEA AS WELL AND I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD PROBABLY GET RID OF AS MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS AS WE CAN.

IT'S TOO MUCH MONEY IN POLITICS.

WE NEED TO TAKE ABOUT $7 BILLION OR $8 BILLION TO FINISH THE CAMPAIGN IT IT'S IMPORTANT YOU GOT TO SPEND THAT MUCH MONEY AND BECAUSE SO MUCH MONEY IS INVOLVED YOU HAVE THE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THE PRESIDENTS ARE FORCED TO MAKE DECISIONS BECAUSE DONORS ASK THEM TO DO SOMETHING AND MAYBE THAT'S NOT IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AT THAT TIME.

>> DAVID RUBENSTEIN THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU, WALTER.