This Reporter Says Education, Not Trump Policies, Are Saving Small Town USA

PRESIDENT TRUMP IS DUE TO MEET CHINA'S XI JINPING IN BEIJING THIS WEEK.

IT'S THE FIRST VISIT BY A U. S. PRESIDENT IN NEARLY A DECADE.

FOR THE WORLD'S TWO LARGEST ECONOMIES AND MILITARIES, TRADE WILL LIKELY BE HIGH ON THE AGENDA.

AFTER THEIR INTENSE TARIFF WAR LAST YEAR, WHICH ENDED IN A TRUCE, JOURNALIST BOB DAVIS HAS BEEN KEEPING A CLOSE EYE AND HE JOINS HARI SRINIVASAN TO DISCUSS WHAT A SMALL TOWN'S RECOVERY FROM THE IMPACTS OF CHINESE IMPORTS REVEALS ABOUT THE UNITED STATES ECONOMY.

>> CHRISTIANE, THANKS.

BOB DAVIS, THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

YOU HAVE BEEN COVERING U. S. AND CHINA SORT OF ECONOMIC RELATIONS AND FALLOUT FROM TRADE WARS FOR A LONG TIME.

YOUR RECENT PEACE TOOK YOU BACK TO HICKORY, NORTH CAROLINA, A TOWN YOU FOLLOWED OVER TIME.

WE'VE SEEN THESE DIFFERENT CYCLE OF WORK.

TELL US A BIT ABOUT HICKORY AND WHAT DREW YOU TO IT OVER THE YEARS.

>> WELL MY FIRST VISIT WAS IN 2016, WHEN THE JOURNAL WAS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, AND EVERYBODY ELSE, THE TRUMP PHENOMENON, AND PART OF IT CLEARLY WAS, YOU KNOW, POPULIST REVOLT OR REBELLION, AND CHINA PLAYED A BIG PART OF THAT.

SO WE WERE LOOKING FOR A PLACE TO SET A STORY AND HICKORY JUST WAS LINED UP TO BE A PERFECT CANDIDATE, JOURNALISTICALLY SPEAKING.

IT WAS A SMALL CITY, 30,000 PEOPLE OR SO, IN THE SOUTHEAST, WHICH WAS WHERE THE IMPACT OF CHINA WAS FELT ENORMOUSLY.

THEY TENDED TO BE SMALL CITIES IN THE SOUTHEAST AND THE MIDWEST THAT HAD A SINGLE INDUSTRY, AND HICKORY'S INDUSTRY WAS THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY.

IT WAS AT ONE TIME KIND OF THE FURNITURE CAPITAL OF THE U. S. .

>> SO HOW IS IT DIFFERENT TODAY?

>> BACK THEN, WE WERE LOOKING, AS I SAID, FOR THE IMPACT OF CHINA.

WHAT WAS TRULY INTERESTING TO ME, AND THESE PEOPLE HAD WORKED IN THE FURNITURE FACTORIES FOR YEARS AND YEARS, AND MANY OF THEM HAD COME FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COUNTRY TO WORK IN HICKORY OVER WHAT WERE CALLED THE HILLBILLY HIGHWAYS, THE MAIN HIGHWAYS FROM TENNESSEE, WEST VIRGINIA, AND SO ON, AND LOOKED LIKE REALLY GOOD JOBS, AND THEY WERE REALLY GOOD JOBS .

IN HICKORY, IN 2000 OR SO, THE MEDIAN INCOME WAS HIGHER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE WAS LOWER THAN THE NATIONAL AVERAGE.

BUT AFTER CHINA JOINED THE WTO IN 2001, THE IMPACT WAS ENORMOUS AND IMMEDIATE, AND UNEMPLOYMENT SHOT UP.

PEOPLE WERE LAID OFF CONSTANTLY.

FURNITURE FACTORIES WERE CLOSING LEFT AND RIGHT.

AND THE INTERESTING THING WAS I GO AND I TALK TO WORKERS THERE, AND I'D SAY, SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED, AND IF I ASKED THEM SPECIFICALLY A QUESTION ABOUT CHINA, THEY WOULD GO OFF ON CHINA.

BUT MAINLY WHAT IT WAS, WITHOUT ASKING, IF I WOULD JUST ASK IN AN OPEN-ENDED WAY, THE FIRST THING WOULD SAY IS THEY BLAME THEIR BOSSES.

THEY BLAME THEIR BOSSES FOR SELLING OUT, SELLING OUT TO THE CHINESE.

THEY COULD UNDERSTAND WHY CHINA WOULD COME IN AND SELL BUT IT WAS THEIR BOSSES THAT THEY BLAMED AND IT WAS A VERY --IT WAS THE KIND OF THING THAT DONALD TRUMP AND ALSO BERNIE SANDERS PICKED UP ON.

>> REALLY THE ECONOMIC FRUSTRATION TRANSLATED INTO POLITICAL IDENTITY.

>> YES, DEFINITELY, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

>> IN YOUR RECENT PIECE YOU WROTE THE TOWN IS MAKING A COMEBACK, THE JOBS ARE RETURNING AND INCOMES ARE RISING BUT THE REASONS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH MR.

TRUMP AND HIS SIGNATURE POLICIES.

EXPLAIN.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AS I SAY, THIS WAS A SINGLE INDUSTRY TOWN, THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY.

THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY FIGURED OUT A WAY TO SURVIVE WITH CHINA BUT IN A MUCH, MUCH REDUCED LEVEL.

I THINK THE EMPLOYMENT AND FURNITURE THERE IS MAYBE A THIRD OF WHAT IT USED TO BE BUT AGAIN, IT STILL EXISTS SO THE JOBS AREN'T COMING BACK IN THE FURNITURE INDUSTRY.

WHAT HAPPENED IN GENERAL WAS THAT THE PEOPLE WHO WORKED IN THE FURNITURE FACTORIES TENDED TO STAY AND THEY DIDN'T HAVE A LOT OF OPTIONS ELSEWHERE IN THE COUNTRY, AND THEY HAVE FAMILY CONNECTIONS THERE AND ALL OF THAT.

ESSENTIALLY COME A THEY GOT OLDER .

A LOT OF THEM, A FAIR PERCENTAGE OF THEM WENT ON DISABILITY BECAUSE THEY DID A LOT OF FACTORY WORK AND MIGHT HAVE WRENCHED THEIR BACKS OR WHATEVER BUT THEY WENT ON SOCIAL SECURITY, MEDICARE, SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY.

FEDERAL MONEY COMES INTO THE TOWN AND THAT CREATES A DEMAND FOR SERVICES FOR OLDER PEOPLE.

SO HEALTHCARE IN PARTICULAR.

BUT OTHER SERVICES, AS WELL.

SO THE AREA IS DEFINITELY STAGING A RECOVERY, NO DOUBT.

JOBS THERE ARE INCREASING.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS LOWER BUT THEY AREN'T JOBS IN GENERAL, IN MANUFACTURING.

THEY'RE JOBS IN SERVICES AND MANY OF THOSE JOBS ARE FILLED BY IMMIGRANTS OR THE CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS WHO LIVED IN HICKORY BUT WERE TOO YOUNG, IN THE EARLY 2000'S, TO GET A JOB.

>> SO IF THEY'RE NOT THE SAME TYPE OF JOBS, ARE THEY PAYING THE SAME, AND IS IT PHYSICAL LABOR?

IS THAT WHY THERE ARE DIFFERENT SORT OF DEMOGRAPHICS THAT ARE SIGNING UP?

>> THE SERVICE JOBS IN GENERAL TEND TO PAY LESS THAN THE MANUFACTURING JOBS.

SOME SERVICE JOBS OF COURSE, I DON'T KNOW, A DENTAL ASSISTANT YOU MAKE CONSIDERABLY MORE THAN MOST FACTORY WORKERS DO YOU KNOW, A HOME HEALTH AIDE OR SOMETHING ARE NOT HIGHLY PAID JOBS AND THE PEOPLE AGAIN WHO TEND TO GRAVITATE TO THOSE JOBS ARE IMMIGRANTS OR THE CHILDREN OF IMMIGRANTS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACTORY JOBS THEMSELVES, EVEN THEY ALSO RELY MUCH, MUCH MORE ON IMMIGRATION AND THAT, GOSH, IN 1990 OR SO THERE WERE HARDLY ANYBODY WHO WAS FOREIGN-BORN IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD AND NOW, IT USED TO BE LESS THAN 1%, NOW IT'S 10% OF THE POPULATION IS FOREIGN-BORN.

THAT'S MUCH LOWER THAN NATIONAL AVERAGE BUT A SUBSTANTIAL, ENORMOUS INCREASE FROM WHAT IT USED TO BE, AND THE PEOPLE WHO WENT INTO MANUFACTURING NOW TEND TO BE THE SAME SORT OF PEOPLE BECAUSE AGAIN, IF YOU GREW UP IN HICKORY AND YOUR FATHER WAS LAID OFF, AND YOUR UNCLE WAS LAID OFF, AND YOUR MOTHER WAS LAID OFF, THE LAST THING YOU WANT TO DO IS TO GO INTO MANUFACTURING.

SOME DO, OF COURSE, BUT IT TENDS TO BE PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THAT KIND OF HISTORY.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT YOU ALWAYS HEAR WHEN THESE SORTS OF CHANGES ARE COMING IS THAT THERE WILL BE EFFORTS TO RETRAIN, THAT FACTORY WORKERS WILL BE ABLE TO GET NEW JOBS, DIFFERENT JOBS.

CONSIDERING THAT YOU'VE WATCHED THAT OVER THE LAST DECADES, IS THAT HAPPENING?

>> THAT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION.

AGAIN, THIS IS AN EARLY VISIT, SO I WILL BE TALKING TO THE WORKERS WHO HAVE BEEN LAID OFF TIME AND AGAIN AND THERE WAS AT THAT TIME A PROGRAM CALLED TRADE ADJUSTMENT ASSISTANCE.

IT'S BASICALLY MONEY, ENOUGH MONEY TO GO TO COMMUNITY COLLEGE, AND THE COMMUNITY COLLEGE THERE IS VERY GOOD, IN TERMS OF RETRAINING WORKERS FOR ANY NUMBER OF JOBS.

SO I'D ASK PEOPLE, HOW DID THAT WORK OUT FOR YOU, AND THIS WOULD BE, THEY'RE TALKING AROUND 2006-2007.

SO THE FIRST THING IS THESE OFTEN ARE PEOPLE WHO DIDN'T WANT TO GO TO COLLEGE IN THE FIRST PLACE, SO A LOT OF THEM GOT SCARED OFF HERE, PARTICULARLY WITH THE MATH THAT YOU HAD TO LEARN.

SO THAT WAS ONE.

THEN AGAIN, IT'S 2006-2007 AND THEY THINK TO THEMSELVES, WHAT ARE THE BOOMING INDUSTRIES?

HOUSE CONSTRUCTION.

HOUSING WAS GIGANTIC AT THAT TIME, SO THEY TRAINED THEMSELVES ON HOUSING AND THEN THE HOUSING MARKET COLLAPSED, SO IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT THING TO DO AND THE U. S. IS FRANKLY TERRIBLE AT IT.

SOME OF THE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE GOOD AT RETRAINING BUT THE U. S. HAS NEVER PUT ENOUGH MONEY INTO IT AND NEVER FIGURED OUT HOW TO GIVE PEOPLE THE KINDS OF SKILLS THAT THEY REALLY NEED.

>> CURRENTLY THE PRESIDENT TALKS A LOT ABOUT HOW IMPOSING TARIFFS ON CHINA, TAKING A HARD LINE AGAINST CHINA WILL BRING BACK AMERICAN MANUFACTURING.

TREASURY SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT SAID THAT THEY'RE INTENDING TO REVITALIZE THE U. S. INDUSTRY AND THAT FACTORIES ARE GOING TO BE BREAKING GROUND.

IS THAT HAPPENING IN HICKORY?

>> THERE'S A 25% TARIFF ON FURNITURE FROM ANYWHERE, ANYWHERE OUTSIDE THE COUNTRY, RIGHT?

SO THAT'S AN INCENTIVE, CERTAINLY INCENTIVE TO MOVE TO THE U. S. AND GET UNDER THAT TERRACE UMBRELLA.

BUT FOR THE LOCAL SURVIVING FURNITURE COMPANIES, IT HASN'T REALLY BEEN A PLUS AT ALL.

WHAT THEY WILL SAY TO ME IS THAT FIRST OF ALL, THERE TERRACE BILL HAS GONE UP ENORMOUSLY.

THESE ARE VERY LOW MARGIN TYPE OF BUSINESSES, 5% BEFORE TAXES IS CONSIDERED A GOOD YEAR, AND THEN THE WAY THESE FURNITURE COMPANIES IN GENERAL ADJUSTED TO CHINA WAS TO MOVE INTO NICHE MARKETS THAT THE CHINESE CAN'T SUPPLY SO, YOU KNOW, AN EXPENSIVE PIECE OF FURNITURE WITH 100 DIFFERENT CHOICES, SMALL PRODUCTION RUNS.

SO IT'S ONE PARTICULAR COMPANY CALLED CENTURY FURNITURE, MAKES $7000 SOFAS.

THEY THOUGHT THE 5% TARIFF IS NOT GOING TO SCARE AWAY THEIR CUSTOMERS BUT WHAT HAPPENS IS THEY SELL THROUGH FURNITURE RETAILERS A LOT, A LOT OF WHAT THEY SELL, AND THOSE RETAILERS RELY ON SALES OF $1000 COUCHES.

AND FOR PEOPLE BUYING THOSE KIND OF COUCHES, 25% MEANS A BIG DEAL, SO THEY'RE WORRIED THAT THEIR CUSTOMERS ARE GOING TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS AND THAT WOULD HURT THEM MUCH MORE THAN ANY ADVANTAGE THAT THEY MIGHT GET FROM PROTECTION FROM --BY THE TARIFF.

>> A LOT OF PARTS THAT GO INTO THE SOFAS, SOME OF THOSE COME FROM OVERSEAS IN THE FIRST PLACE, RIGHT HE'LL >> YOU CAN GET A PIECE OF FURNITURE THAT'S AMERICAN-MADE BUT IT'S GOT METAL PARTS AND IT'S GOT A PART FROM THIS COUNTRY IN THAT COUNTRY.

SO IT'S ALSO HUNDREDS OF HOURS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, SO HOW MUCH DO WE OWE, AND NOW THERE ARE REFUNDS AND THIS PARTICULAR COMPANY AND OTHERS ALSO ARE APPLYING FOR REFUNDS.

BUT FIRST OF ALL, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY'RE GOING TO GET AND THEN YOU CAN PRESUME THAT RETAILERS ARE GOING TO ASK FOR A REFUND ALSO AND THE COMPANY SAYS TO ME, IT'S THE CUSTOMERS THAT REALLY SHOULD GET THE REFUNDS AND AREN'T THE RETAILERS GOING TO REALLY CALL YOU UP AND SAY, YOU KNOW I OWE YOU 50 BUCKS, I DOUBT IT.

SO THINGS ARE COMPLICATED EQUATION ALSO.

>> I WONDER IF THIS TRANSITION FROM FACTORY WORK TO HEALTHCARE IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS IN OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY AS WELL .

YOU GOT THIS SORT OF TSUNAMI, YOU'VE GOT IS AGING POPULATION THAT'S GOING TO NEED ALL KINDS OF SERVICES AND REGARDLESS OF WHERE YOU LIVE IN AMERICA, THERE ARE GOING TO BE NECESSARY JOBS IN THOSE MARKETS.

>> WELL IT'S ALREADY HAPPENING.

WHEN YOU SEE THE UNEMPLOYMENT, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS WHY ARE THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATES SO LOW AND THE CHALLENGES THAT WE HAVE, THE IRAN WAR AND OTHER THINGS, IS ONE OF THE REASONS IS HEALTHCARE IS EXPANDING ENORMOUSLY.

I MEAN IT IS A LEGITIMATE QUESTION, IS AN ECONOMY THAT IS FOCUSED ENTIRELY ON TAKING CARE OF OLDER PEOPLE, LIKE AN ECONOMY THAT YOU REALLY WANT OR THAT YOU DEPEND ON, IT'S TOTALLY A LEGITIMATE QUESTION.

AND PLACES LIKE HICKORY ARE NOT --ARE UNLIKELY TO BE THE PLACES THAT WILL SPAWN NEW INDUSTRIES.

THEY'LL GET DATA CENTERS FROM A. I. AND OTHER DATA COMMUNICATIONS BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE THE PLACE WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE WORKING ON A I. THOSE WILL BE, THEY MIGHT BE CHARLOTTE, NEARBY, PLACES WITH RESEARCH UNIVERSITIES TEND TO BE PLACES THAT WILL SPAWN NEW INDUSTRIES.

>> GIVEN THE KIND OF DIFFERENT VARIABLES THAT YOU ARE SAYING ARE NECESSARY FOR HEALTHY TRANSITIONS, LET'S SAY FOR EXAMPLE OF RESEARCH INFRASTRUCTURE, UNIVERSITY, RIGHT NOW WE SEE A LOT OF THESE UNIVERSITIES SUFFER CUTBACKS IN RESEARCH FUNDING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT AN IMMIGRANT LABOR POOL OF POPULATION.

THERE IS TREPIDATION IN CERTAIN COMMUNITIES ABOUT HOW I. C. E. IS GOING TO COME TO THEIR TOWN OR WHAT THEY'RE GOING TO DO AND HOW THEY'RE GOING TO DISRUPT THE EMPLOYERS, TALKING ABOUT THAT.

I WONDER IF THE POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS PUTTING OUT, WILL OVER TIME, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THESE OTHER KINDS OF EFFECTS ON A PLACE LIKE HICKORY OR AN EVEN BIGGER PLACE WHERE THERE ARE MORE OF THESE POSSIBILITIES FOR SORT OF THESE GREEN SHOOTS BUT SOME OF THESE POLICIES ARE STOPPING.

>> WELL I THINK THE RESEARCH QUESTION IS THE BIGGEST SELF- INFLICTED WOUND.

IT'S FRANKLY CRAZY, YOU KNOW, THAT THE UNITED STATES IS A LEADER IN ANY NUMBER OF TECHNOLOGIES, WHICH CAN LEAD TO NEW INDUSTRIES AND THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, BEATING UP ON THESE UNIVERSITIES BECAUSE OF ISSUES ABOUT DIVERSITY AND EQUITY AND SO ON, WHEN CLEARLY THAT'S NOT THE RESEARCH PART OF THOSE UNIVERSITIES, IS JUST FRANKLY CRAZY, YOU KNOW, AND WILL REALLY HURT THE UNITED STATES IF IT CONTINUES.

ON THE IMMIGRATION QUESTION, IT WAS INTERESTING.

I HAPPENED TO BE IN HICKORY, I DON'T KNOW, A WEEK OR SO AFTER BORDER PATROL WAS THERE FOR ONE DAY.

THEY WOULD STOP IN A MEXICAN RESTAURANT OR WHATEVER AND JUST THAT ONE DAY SEND --I'M HESITANT TO USE THE WORD TERROR BUT THAT'S KIND OF THE WAY PEOPLE FELT.

THEY WERE REALLY, REALLY FRIGHTENED AND YOU KNOW PEOPLE WHO ARE CITIZENS STARTED CARRYING PASSPORTS.

PEOPLE STARTED CARRYING PAPERS.

THE LOCAL HISPANIC AID GROUP, YOU KNOW, STARTED MAKING DELIVERIES BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE AFRAID TO COME TO THE FOOD PANTRIES AND THAT WAS FOR ONE DAY, ONE DAY, AND THESE FACTORIES DIDN'T DEPEND ON A SUPPLY OF WORKERS.

AND YES I THINK IT WILL WIND UP HURTING LACES OF THAT SORT.

>> WE ARE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION ON THE EVE OF A MEETING BETWEEN PRESIDENT TRUMP AND CHINA'S XI JINPING AND WHAT ARE THE THINGS THAT WOULD HELP A PLACE LIKE HICKORY, AND ARE THOSE THINGS GOING TO BE ON THE AGENDA, SO TO SPEAK?

IS THAT WHERE AMERICA IS THINKING?

>> THE IMPORT IMPACT FROM CHINA HAS KIND OF WASHED OVER THE UNITED STATES.

I MEAN, ONE OF THE THINGS THE UNITED STATES TRADE REPRESENTATIVES, DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, LEGITIMATELY COMPLAIN ABOUT IS THE CHINESE MODEL, IT'S AN INTERESTING MODEL.

IT IS, ON THE ONE HAND, UNBELIEVABLY COMPETITIVE.

LIKE IN THE EV AREA, HUNDREDS OF COMPANIES COMPETING, AND THEY GET REALLY GOOD AT IT.

YOU KNOW, QUITE INNOVATIVE.

THERE FACTORIES ARE VERY, VERY MODERN.

BUT WHAT KEEPS THE SYSTEM GOING ARE ENORMOUS SUBSIDIES.

IN A CAPITALIST SYSTEM, TOTALLY CAPITALIST SYSTEM, YOU KNOW YOU'D HAVE --YOU START WITH 50 COMPANIES, YOU WIND UP WITH THREE, MAKING CARS, AND THEIR WHAT HAPPENS IS COMPANIES STAY IN BUSINESS ALL THE TIME SO THE RESULT IS THEY PRODUCE VERY GOOD PRODUCTS BUT AT VERY, VERY CHEAP PRICES AND AT MONEY- LOSING PRICES, AND THOSE PRODUCTS THAT ARE UNPROFITABLE AT HOME GET EXPORTED OVERSEAS, AND EVEN IF THEY MAY LOSE A LITTLE MONEY OVERSEAS, IT ADDUCES, YOU KNOW, THE PRODUCTION COST PER UNIT, AND ALSO THEY TEND TO DO BETTER.

EVEN THE PRICES THAT LOCAL COMPETITORS MIGHT COMPLAIN ABOUT, THEY MIGHT BE SOMEWHAT PROFITABLE FOR THESE COMPANIES.

SO IT HAS LONG BEEN AN URGING OF THE UNITED STATES FOR CHINA TO SHIFT ITS ECONOMIC MODEL SO THAT IT DEPENDS LESS ON EXPORTS AND MORE ON FILLING DEMAND FOR THE 1.

4 BILLION PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.

SO IT HASN'T HELPED SO FAR.

I MEAN CHINA HAS RESISTED ALL THOSE COMPLAINTS AND FEELS THAT, YEAH, WE'RE DOING REALLY WELL WITH THE SYSTEM WE HAVE.

SO THAT COULD BE ON THE AGENDA BUT I THINK THE TRUMP TEAM HAS LARGELY GIVEN UP ON THAT AND IS LOOKING FOR A WAY TO INSTEAD COME TO SOME AGREEMENT THAT WE ONLY SHIP CERTAIN PRODUCTS AT A CERTAIN VOLUME AND WILL SHIP CERTAIN PRODUCTS AT A CERTAIN VOLUME.

WILL THAT HELP HICKORY?

I DON'T HONESTLY KNOW.

MAYBE A LITTLE BIT, BUT IT ALSO HAS ALL THE DOWNSIDES OF PROTECTIONISM, TOO, WHICH THE MAIN ONE IS YOU REDUCE COMPETITION AND INNOVATION.

SO I'M NOT SURE THAT WHAT WILL COME OUT OF THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS SUMMIT WILL HAVE MUCH EFFECT ON AVERAGE AMERICANS.

I THINK IT'S MUCH MORE ON US TO DEVELOP THE PROGRAMS AND POLICIES OF OUR OWN THAT WILL HELP THE UNITED STATES.

>> JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR BOB DAVIS, THE BOOK THAT HE WROTE ABOUT THIS WAS SUPERPOWER SHOWDOWN.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

>> THANK YOU.