Threats to Democracy in the Time of COVID-19

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR: It really does seem the perfect opportunity to talk about what some countries, some governments are doing sort of undercover of coronavirus. Let me just ask you both what you make about President Trump and disinfectant and the ongoing rumors and fake science and other things that he’s been dispersing from that all-powerful bully pulpit in the White House. David, you in the U.S. and then we’ll talk to Anne about how it’s being viewed overseas.

DAVID ROHDE, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, NEW YORKER ONLINE: Well, I think this is the culmination of years of Trump sort of undermining the public’s trust in experts and the news media. And on the Lysol comment is just, you know, sort of a stark example. But it’s amazing, the FDA, top U.S. drug administration, issued a warning trying to tell people not to take Lysol, it will kill you, and it’s amazing that they’re countering something that the president of the United States said. But the United States is so divided, conspiracy theories are so widespread that there is a chance some people could try do this, the Lysol or hydroxychloroquine, the antimalarial drug he’s also been urging people to take.

AMANPOUR: So, again, we just have to keep saying it, don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Anne Applebaum, do you think people around the world will, you know, risk listening to this latest instruction from the White House? We know that some tried chloroquine.

ANNE APPLEBAUM, AUTHOR, “TWILIGHT OF DEMOCRACY: THE SEDUCTIVE LURE OF AUTHORITARIANISM”: Yes, well, chloroquine is a legitimate drug. You know, it’s — and people are testing it at hospitals. I think the warnings are just against people trying to use it at home by themselves. I mean, look, disinformation is a tactic and it is one that Trump has used to great success in his political career, starting with using it against President Obama, accusing him of having been born outside the United States. It’s also a tool that many other leaders had used frequently and regularly as a way of distracting their populations, as a way of dividing them. And also, as a way of undermining real news and undermining real facts. So, that when they are accused of being corrupt or when unflattering stories about them appear, all they have to do is say, oh, that’s the fake news media, you know, we don’t believe in it. We’ll all got rather used to this in the United States but, of course, this is a tactic used around the world by many leaders, you know, it’s not just Trump alone. And in many ways, it’s Trump’s prime borrowing from the authoritarian playbook, it’s the main tool that he has used. You know, he has borrowed it from President Putin, he’s borrowed it from leaders of Turkey and other places. And now, we are seeing what the real impact of it is. Look. You know, in a terrible pandemic situation, where we need facts and science, a part of the population is no longer willing to listen to real news.