Will Democracy Win? Barack Obama with Christiane Amanpour

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Can I ask you about your commitment to democracy right here in Athens? You did give a speech, your last speech as president, about a week after President Trump won, and you talked about your faith in the — you know, the solidity of the democratic ideals. A lot has happened still since then, right?

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: That’s true.

AMANPOUR: Do you still feel that way? Do you feel the democracy will win?

OBAMA: I do believe that democracy will win if we fight for it. And, you know, one of the themes of that speech, I then — a year or so later at the centennial of Nelson Mandela’s birthday in Johannesburg, gave a speech about democracy as well and it’s obviously continued to be an obsession of mine with the foundation, democracy is not self-executing. It depends on the engagement of citizens and an active, you know, mobilization of people around the belief, not just in any particular issue, but the belief in self-governance and rule of law and independent judiciary and a free press. All of the civic institutions that go into making a democracy work. And I think it is indisputable that a combination of forces had put enormous strains on democracy and that we’ve seen a backlash against democratic ideals around the world. It’s not unique to any one place. It’s happened in Europe, it’s happened in the United States, it’s happened in this part of the world, you know, around the Mediterranean, it’s happening in Asia. The reason I’m optimistic is because I believe, particularly as I meet young people around the world, there is still a fundamental belief in the dignity and worth of individuals and their agency and determining what their lives are like, I think that’s what young people want. But, you know, our existing democratic institutions are creaky, and we’re going to have to reform them.

AMANPOUR: So, let’s ask about the creaky or not institutions in the United States.

OBAMA: Yes.

AMANPOUR: The spectacle of a former president being federally indicted. How is the rest of the world, the democratic world, maybe even the non-democratic world, meant to interpret that indictment and, indeed, the fact that a federal indictee is running — is able to run for the highest office in the land, maybe even the world?

OBAMA: It’s less than ideal. But the fact that we have a former president who is having to answer to charges brought by prosecutors does uphold the basic notion that nobody is above the law. And the allegations will now be sorted out through a court process and I — I’m — I think I’m more concerned, one that comes to the United States, with the fact that not just one particular individual is, you know, being accused of undermining existing laws, but that more broadly we’ve seen, whether it’s through the gerrymandering of districts, whether it’s, you know, trying to silence critics through changes in legislative process, whether it’s attempts to intimidate the press, a strand of anti-democratic sentiment that, you know, we’ve seen in the United States, you know, it’s something that is, right now, most prominent in the Republican Party, but I don’t think it’s something that is unique to one party. I think there is a less tolerance for ideas that don’t suit us. And sort of the habits of the free and open exchange of ideas and the idea that, you know, we all agreed to the rules of the game and even if the outcomes aren’t always the ones we like, we still abide by those rules. I think that’s weakened since I left office and we’re going to need to strengthen them again.

AMANPOUR: So, I do need to ask you then a follow-up on that because what happens if Donald Trump wins again? It’s said that the institutional guardrails of American democracy is strong enough to survive a one term presidency. Are they strong enough to survive if that kind of person — personality wins again?

OBAMA: I won’t speculate on the outcome of a future election. Obviously, I’m a Democrat. I’ve got a deep —

AMANPOUR: I mean, the institution.

OBAMA: — interest in the outcome. But I’ll make a general statement, which is, having been president of the United States, you need a president who takes the oath of office seriously.