>>> THIS IS METRO FOCUS WITH --

BROUGHT TO YOU BY --

>>> THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH

RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD, AND

JENNA FLANAGAN.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE

BY

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER,

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD,

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN

FAMILY,

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON,

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN

FOUNDATION.

>>> TONIGHT WE ARE TAKING YOU

INSIDE THE BATTLE TO RADICALIZE

THESE MOVEMENTS.

THESE ARE AT THE HEART OF A

DOCUMENTARY ENTITLED "HEALING

FROM HATE."

THIS FILM BRINGS US TO THE FRONT

LINES WITH LIFE AFTER HATE

FOUNDED BY FORMER SKINHEADS AND

NEONAZIS TO HEAL.

HERE IS A PREVIEW WITH A WARNING

THAT SOME OF THE SCENES ARE IN

FACT DISTURBING.

♪

>> WE WERE HERE FIRST AND THIS

IS OUR COUNTRY.

>> I AM ON THE EDGE TO SAVE THE

WHITE RACE.

GUNS, AMMO, STEEL-TOED SHOES.

>> THEY KNEW THEY WANTED TO HELP

OTHER GUYS GET OUT.

>> HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE, WHILE IN

THE MOVEMENT, ARE TOO AFRAID TO

LEAVE.

>> I WAS GETTING COMPASSION FROM

THOSE I LEAST DESERVED IT FROM

WHEN I LEAST DESERVED IT.

>> THIS IS WHY THE INTERSENSE

CAN'T RELY ON CHARISMA.

>> WE ARE LIKE ANTI-VENOM.

WE KNOW HOW TO SPEW IT.

>> YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN SO BADLY

BROKEN THAT THERE IS NO WAY YOU

COULD COME BACK FROM THIS.

IF YOU DID, SO COULD HE.

>> SOMEONE IN THAT LIFE THAT MAY

NOT BE AWARE THERE IS A WAY OUT.

>> THAT HATE RUINS YOU.

>> HUMANIZED HIM WHICH ALLOWED

HIM TO HUMANIZE YOU.

THAT'S NOT ROCKET SCIENCE.

>> A LOT GETTING THROWN AT YOU

RIGHT NOW.

>> A LOT.

>> IRREPLACEABLE.

>> WE ARE OPERATING AS HUMAN

BEINGS IN ONE OF TWO PLACES,

HERE OR LOVE.

WE GET TO CHOOSE WHICH ONE THAT

IS.

♪

>> JOINING US NOW TO DISCUSS THE

DOCUMENTARY AND THE WORK THEY

HAVE BEEN DOING IS FIRST THE

DOCUMENTARY'S WRITER, PRODUCER,

AND AN AUTHOR FOR THE BOOK "A

CURE FOR HATE."

FROM VIOLENT EXTREMISM TO

COMPASSION.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

PETER, I AM GOING TO ASK YOU THE

FIRST QUESTION.

IT'S A QUESTION THAT I

OFTENTIMES ASK FILMMAKERS.

THAT IS WHAT IS IT ABOUT THE

STORY ABOUT WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON

IN SOCIETY THAT DREW YOU AND

MADE YOU DECIDE THIS WAS THE

FILM I WANT TO MAKE?

>> IT'S INTERESTING.

OSTENSIBLY THIS IS A FILM ABOUT

HATE, BUT NOT THE AVENUE I

INITIALLY TOOK IN TERMS OF WHAT

MY INTENTIONS WERE.

I HAD BEEN DEVELOPING A FILM

AROUND MASCULINITY AND THE

CRISIS OF IT AROUND THE UNITED

STATES AND COLLABORATING WITH

MICHAEL KIMBALL WHO APPEARS IN

THE FILM.

OVER A SOURCE OF A SERIES OF

DISCUSSIONS, HE BROUGHT UP THE

POINT THAT HE HAD STARTED TO DO

RESEARCH FOR A BOOK THAT

INVOLVED MEN WHO WERE EXITING

HATE GROUPS AND HELPING TO

SUPPORT OTHERS TO DO THE SAME.

HE SAID YOU REALLY NEED TO CHECK

THESE GUYS OUT.

THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING

MEN.

AND I THINK THEY REALLY PROVIDE

A VERY USEFUL LENS FOR

UNDERSTANDING MASCULINITY.

AS A SOCIOLOGIST, ONE OF HIS

APROE

APPROACHES IS LET'S LOOK AT THE

EXTREME TO SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING

IN THE CENTER.

HE INTRODUCED ME TO THESE GUYS

AND THAT'S ALL IT TOOK.

THEY HAVE THE MOST REMARKABLE,

POWERFUL, COURAGEOUS STORIES,

AND THEY ARE OUT THERE ENGAGING

IN THIS REALLY COMPLICATED

DYNAMIC AROUND HATE THAT WE ARE

STRUGGLING WITH AS A NATION

RIGHT NOW IN A VERY UNIQUE WAY

WITH EMPATHY AND COMPASSION AND

UNDERSTANDING.

I THINK IT'S INCREDIBLY

IMPORTANT STORY FOR PEOPLE TO

HEAR.

>> IT IS INDEED.

AS AN ASIDE, YEARS AGO I WORKED

FOR ABC NEWS AND DID A STORE FOR

"2020" WOMEN IN HATE GROUPS AND

GETTING INVOLVED AND MEETING

SOME OF THESE WOMEN AND PEOPLE,

YOU GOT A SENSE.

AND THIS WAS 20 YEARS AGO AND

YOU KNOW IT HAS CHANGED IN THAT

TIME, BUT YOU GET A SENSE OF HOW

PERVASIVE THAT LIFESTYLE IS.

SO THE NOTION OF WITHDRAWING

FROM IT IS FASCINATING.

>>> TONY, ALL GOOD FILM MAKING

HAS TO DO WITH PEOPLE AND THEIR

STORY OF AND YOUR STORY I THINK

WILL SURPRISE PEOPLE IN THE

SENSE THAT IF YOU ASK SOMEBODY

ON THE STREET WHO JOINS THESE

GROUPS, THEY WOULD SAY PEOPLE

FROM BROKEN HOMES AND POVERTY

STRICKEN BACKGROUNDS AND YOU

WERE NOT THAT.

YOU WERE FROM A FAIRLY AFFLUENT

LIFESTYLE, YOUR FAMILY WAS A

DOCTOR.

>> WHAT GETS MOST MEN AND WOMEN

INTO IT, AND IT'S A SEARCH FOR A

PURPOSE, A SENSE OF MEANING.

WHAT I GOT FROM THOSE HATE

GROUPS WAS THAT I GOT POWER WHEN

I FELT POWERLESS, ATTENTION WHEN

I FELT INVISIBLE AND ACCEPTANCE

WHEN I FELT UNLOVABLE.

I TALK ABOUT THOSE THINGS IN

TERMS OF TOXIC SHAME.

I THINK THAT'S ALL PART OF HUMAN

CONDITION.

WE ALL DEAL WITH UNHEALTHY

BELIEFS BECAUSE OF WHAT IS SAID

TO US AS CHILDREN AND WE

OVESTRIVE

TO OVERCOME THE LIES, THAT WE

WERE WEAK.

I FOUND PEOPLE THAT WOULD TAKE

ME IN AND PAT ME ON THE BACK AND

WE COULD GO ON THIS HEROIC

STRUGGLE TO SAVE THE WHITE RACE.

IT'S NONSENSICAL WHEN I LOOK

BACK AT IT NOW, BUT IN THE

MOMENT IT WAS VERY REAL AND MADE

ME FEEL WHOLE FOR A LITTLE

WHILE.

THEN IT WORE OFF.

>> PETER, AS YOU VIEWED THIS

STORY, AND ALL DOCUMENTARIES ARE

A JOURNEY OF KNOWLEDGE, YOU HAVE

LEARNED THROUGH THAT.

I AM SURE AS A PRODUCER YOU ARE

LEARNING AS YOU GO THROUGH IT.

LISTENING TO TONY AS TO WHY HE

GOT INVOLVED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

IT RAISES THE QUESTION THAT I

SUSPECT MOST PEOPLE, IF YOU ASK

THEM AGAIN AND SAY WHY DO YOU

THINK PEOPLE GET INVOLVED IN

THESE GROUPS, I SUSPECT YOU KWO

SAY IDEOLOGY.

WHAT DID YOU FIND?

>> THAT'S A MAIN POINT THAT

COMES ACROSS CLEARLY WITH THE

FILM.

INEVITABLY YOU FIND THAT IT IS

NOT THE IDEOLOGY THAT'S DRIVING

PEOPLE INTO HATE GROUP

PARTICIPATION.

AS TONY MENTIONED, IT'S MORE OF

PEOPLE LOOKING FOR BELONGING,

EMPOWERMENT, HOW TO SHORE UP A

LOST SENSE OF MASCULINITY OR

STANDING, HIGHER PURPOSE,

IDENTITY.

IF WE STEP BACK, THESE ARE

CRUCIAL UNDER PININGS FOR

ANYBODY TO FEEL AT PEACE WITHIN

ONE'S SELF.

KIMMEL TALKS ABOUT THESE GROUPS

FEEDING MEN, FEEDING SOMETHING

THAT THEY VERY MUCH NEED.

AND I THINK ONE OF THE CRUCIAL

ASPECTS OF THIS FILM IS IT'S

VERY IMPORTANT TO TAKE A STEP

BACK AND LOOK AT THE PEOPLE

INSIDE OF THESE BODIES.

NOT JUST THEIR BEHAVIOR, NOT

JUST THEIR IDEOLOGY, BUT THAT

THERE ARE HUMAN BEINGS INSIDE

HERE AND REASONS THEY ARE DRIVEN

TO THIS KIND OF BEHAVIOR AND

THIS KIND OF IDENTIFICATION AND

BELONGING.

>> TONY, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT

YOUR INVOLVEMENT HERE, IT SOUNDS

AS IF YOU INITIALLY FOUND WHAT

YOU WERE LOOKING FOR, THE NEED

THAT PETER JUST MENTIONED.

IT LOOKED LIKE YOU FOUND THE

ANSWERS TO YOUR NEED, BUT AT

SOME POINT IN TIME YOU SAID, NO,

THIS IS NOT WHAT I NEED.

WHAT WAS IT THAT CAUSED THAT

TRANSFORMATION FOR YOU TO MAKE

YOU SAY I NEED TO GET OUT OF

THIS?

>> ULTIMATELY WAS THE BIRTH OF

MY DAUGHTER AND SON 15 MONTHS

LATER.

I ENDED UP BEING A SINGLE PARENT

WHEN THEY WERE 2 AND 4 WHICH

PROVIDED ME, IRONICALLY,

PROVIDED ME WITH ANOTHER

IDENTITY.

BACK IN THE 1990s, BEING A

SINGLE FATHER WAS LIKE A

UNICORN.

I GOT ATTENTION, ACCEPTANCE,

APPROVAL AND ALL OF THOSE

THINGS, BUT IN A HEALTHY WAY.

THE CHILDREN PROVIDED THE

OPPORTUNITY TO THAW MIGHT HEART.

CHILDREN ARE AMAZING IN THE

SENSE THAT THEY ARE SAFE TO

LOVE.

I COULD ALLOW MYSELF TO FEEL.

I WAS SO MUCH I HAD MY HEAD SO

FAR, IT WASN'T FUNNY.

CUT OFF FROM MY HEART.

THE REASON PEOPLE DO THAT IS

BECAUSE THEY LEARN IT'S NOT TO

CLOSE THEM.

SO WE ARMOR THEM.

SO FOR ME, I COULD LOVE MY

CHILDREN WITHOUT ANY FEAR OF

BEING HURT.

THAT ALLOWED ME TO CONNECT.

THE CHILDREN THROUGH THEIR EYES

I SAW MY OWN HUMANITY REFLECTED

BACK AT ME AND BECAME AWARE,

SLOWLY, OF THAT.

THAT'S THE GIFT MY CHILDREN GAVE

TO ME, THE FIRST LESSON IN

COMPASSION.

WITH COMPASSION WE HOLD A MAIRRR

UP AND SEE THE REFLECTION BACK.

THAT'S WHAT KICKED IT OFF, MY

CHILDREN.

IT TOOK YEARS BEFORE I GOT OUT.

THERE WAS THIS TENSION AND POWER

STRUGGLE GOING ON INSIDE.

THE THING TO REMEMBER IS IT IS

NOT REALLY THE IDEOLOGY.

THE IDEOLOGY WAS A PILL I HAD TO

SWALLOW TO GET NEEDS MET.

DON'T GET ME WRONG, I DOVE IN

AND BELIEVED IT.

BUT IDEOLOGY AND IDENTITY COME

TOGETHER.

IF YOU ATTACK IDEOLOGY, IT IS

ALSO ATTACKING THEIR IDENTITY.

THE CHILDREN ALLOWED ME TO HAVE

A SEPARATE IDENTITY FROM THE

IDEOLOGY SO THAT WAS KEY FOR ME

TO LEAVE.

>> WHEN DO YOU APPROACH PEOPLE?

THIS IS A POWERFUL, THOUGHT

PROVOKING, MARVELOUSLY PRODUCED

FILM.

PEOPLE SHOULD SEE THIS.

I AM CURIOUS ABOUT WHEN YOU NOW

APPROACH SOMEBODY WHO IS DEEPLY

ENMESHED IN THESE MOVEMENTS, SO

TO SPEAK, WHAT IS THE RESPONSE

YOU GET FROM PEOPLE?

>> WELL, I THINK THE THING THAT

WE DO.

PEOPLE ASK WHAT IS THE FIRST

THING YOU SAY TO A WHITE

SUPREMACIST.

IT IS NOT THE FIRST THING I DO,

BUT WHAT I DO.

LISTEN.

>> HOW DO YOU GET THEM TO TALK

SO THIS CAN BE A MEANINGFUL

LISTENING FOR YOU?

>> JUST BE CURIOUS.

YOU CAN'T DO IT WITH SOMEONE WHO

DOESN'T WANT TO ENGAGE YOU IN

ANYWAY, NO, I AM NOT TALKING TO

YOU.

USUALLY BY THE TIME WE TALK TO

THEM THEY HAVE THAT SENSE OF

DOUBT AND THAT INTERNAL TENSION

IS ALIVE AND WELL INSIDE THEM.

ASK THEM QUESTIONS.

WHAT DO THEY BELIEVE AND WHY DO

THEY BELIEVE IT.

OFTEN PEOPLE HAVE THE PERCEPTION

OF LEGITIMATE GRIEVANCES.

WHERE THEY GO WITH THOSE ARE

ILLEGITIMATE.

A LOT OF TIMES THESE YOUNG MEN

AND WOMEN HAVEN'T HAD THE

OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT WHAT

THEIR GRIEVANCE IS.

IT GETS STUFFED INSIDE AND

SPILLED OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE.

IT IS PROVIDING A SAFE PLACE TO

ALLOW THAT VULNERABILITY TO

HAPPEN.

ONCE YOU ALLOW SUNDAY TO EXPRESS

THEMSELVES IN A SAFE PLACE, THE

WALLS COME DOWN SO WE CAN MOVE

BEYOND THAT.

>> I WANT TO REMIND FOLKS WEE AE

TALKING ABOUT THE DOCUMENTARY,

"DEALING WITH HATE."

AND WE HAVE THE PRODUCER AND

ALSO AN AUTHOR WHO WAS A FORMER

WHITE SUPREMACIST.

YOU ARE A WRITER IN ADDITION TO

A FILMMAKER.

YOUR REACTIONS TO WATCHING THIS

PROCESS, THIS ATTEMPT, REACHING

OUT TO PEOPLE AND SAYING TO

THEM, LET ME LISTEN TO YOU IN

THE HOPES THAT I CAN BRING YOU

OUT OF THIS.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> I WAS GOING TO PIGGYBACK ON

TO WHAT TONY WAS TALKING ABOUT.

THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST

IMPORTANT ASPECTS OF THIS FILM.

IT COMES THROUGH WHEN YOU HEAR

SOME OF THESE GENTLEMEN'S

STORIES.

WHEN YOU HEAR FRANKIE WHOM THE

FILM IS LOOSELY BASED ON, AND

WHEN YOU HEAR SAMMY AS WELL,

THEY TALK ABOUT THE FIRST TIME

SOMEONE REALLY SAT AND LISTENED

TO THEIR STORIES WAS A

TRANSFORMTIVE EXPERIENCE FOR

THEM.

AS A FILMMAKER AND A FORMER

COUNSELOR AND THERAPIST MYSELF,

MY ROUTE TO FILM MAKING IS A

SE

SECURE ITOUS ONE.

IT IS NOT JUST LISTENING, BUT

BEING GENUINELY CURIOUS ABOUT AN

INDIVIDUAL.

PEOPLE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE.

YOU CAN LISTEN, BUT HAVING A

GENUINE CURIOSITY IS A

COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MODE OF

LISTENING.

I THINK IN ORDER TO HELP SOMEONE

FEEL UNDERSTOOD AND VALIDATED

FOR WHO THEY ARE AND THEIR

EXPERIENCES, THAT IS A REALLY

KEY INGREDIENT IN ANY KIND OF

INTERACTION.

>> TONY, YOU WERE VERY

INSTRUMENTAL IN THE NOTION OF

THE INTERNET AND USING THE

INTERNET.

THIS GOES BACK DECADES.

USING THE INTERNET AS AN

EDUCATIONAL TOOL.

TALK ABOUT THE SUCCESS YOU HAD

THEN AND HOW TODAY YOU VIEW THE

INTERNET AS THAT RECRUITING

TOOL, THAT INFORMATION TOOL.

>> SURE.

I FELT ONE BUILT ONE OF THE FIR

WHITE POWER RECORD COMPANIES.

THEY WERE MAIL ORDER DVDs.

USING THE INTERNET WE ALLOWED

PEOPLE TO LISTEN TO MUSIC.

IT IS NOT LIKE STREAMING TODAY.

Y

YOU COULD HEAR MUSIC YOU NEVER

HEARD BEFORE BEFORE BUYING.

IT RAMPED UP THE SALES.

THAT'S WHAT SOCIAL MEDIA DOES.

YOU CAN ACCESS PEOPLE WITH THE

SAME IDEAS AS YOU MUCH, MUCH

EASIER.

WHAT MAY HAVE BEEN LONELY, ANGRY

KID SITTING IN A BASEMENT IN THE

'90s IS NOW A COMMUNITY OF

LONELY ANGRY KIDS SITTING IN THE

BASEMENT NOW CONNECTED THROUGH

SOCIAL MEDIA.

THEY CAN THEN WIELD THE POWER IN

NUMBERS.

I THINK SOCIAL MEDIA DOES IT FOR

THE REST OF US FOR GOOD.

BUT THOSE WHO USE IT FOR

NEFARIOUS PURPOSES IS QUITE

POWERFUL.

>> IT TALKS ABOUT THIS IN-DEPTH

IN THE FILM AND I THINK IT'S AN

IMPORTANT POINT.

THERE WAS A TIME WHEN

INVOLVEMENT IN ONE OF THESE

GROUPS WAS A POTENTIALLY

DANGEROUS ACTIVITY.

IT WAS A VERY PUBLIC THING.

I MEAN YOU HAD TO GO LEAVE YOUR

HOUSE AND GO TO A MEETING IN --

SOMETIMES IN A VERY PUBLIC

PLACE.

THERE ARE TIMES WHEN YOU HAD TO

DEAL WITH PROTESTERS AND

AGITATORS WHO WERE VERY MUCH

OPPOSED TO WHAT WAS GOING ON.

THERE WAS A DANGER IN THAT.

NOT JUST A DANGER, BUT THE

THREAT OF EXPOSURE.

YOU COULDN'T DO IT BEHIND THIS

WALL OF INVISIBILITY THAT THE

INTERNET PROVIDES.

I THINK IT'S COMPLETELY

DIFFERENT BALL GAME BECAUSE

THOSE -- IT PROVIDES PEOPLE WITH

A MUCH LOWER LEVEL OF RISK TO

GET INVOLVED AND REALLY ENGAGE

AROUND THESE IDEAS.

I THINK THAT THAT'S -- WITHOUT

HAVING THAT SORT OF -- I GUESS

YOU WOULD CALL IT SOCIETAL

BALANCE OR CORRECTIVE, IT CAN BE

AN INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS THING.

YOU TALKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED,

TONY.

IT CAN START WITH GOOGLING A

SIMPLE PHRASE.

WHICH I THINK HIS WAS BLACK AND

WHITE CRIMES AND TOOK HIM DOWN

THIS RABBIT HOLE WHICH LED HIM

TO THIS HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE

BUTCHERY.

>> TONY, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, TO

FOLLOW UP ON THIS.

I SAID IN MY INTRODUCTION.

I TALKED ABOUT A SURGE THAT WE

ARE SEEING IN HATE CRIMES AND

VIOLENCE.

WE HAVE MENTIONED THE ROLE OF

THE INTERNET AND HOW IT CAN

ALLOW PEOPLE, AS PETER SAID, YOU

DON'T HAVE TO GO OUT SOMEPLACE

TO A MEETING.

YOU HAVE THE MEETING RIGHT THERE

IN YOUR HOME.

BUT IN ADDITION TO THAT, WHAT

WOULD YOU POINT TO IN TERMS OF

SOME OF THE REASONS WHY WE ARE

SEEING THIS UPSURGE IN HATE

CRIMES AND VIOLENCE AND

PARTICIPATION?

>> AS PETER IS ALLUDING TO,

THERE IS A LOWER BARRIER TO

ENTRY AND THE SECOND HALF OF THE

INTERNET IS THE SPEED.

WHEN I WAS IN THE MOVEMENT IN

THE '80S AND '90s, IT TOOK

MONTHS IF NOT YEARS TO FULLY

IMMERSE AND BECOME FULLY

RADICALIZED INTO THIS IDEOLOGY.

YOU HAD TO ORDER BOOKS AND WAIT

WEEKS OR A MONTH TO COME.

BUT NOW WITH THE INTERNET PEOPLE

CAN BING WATCH THE IDEOLOGY IN A

WEEK OR TWO.

I THINK THAT RAPID ACCELERATION

IS A DANGEROUS THING.

AND I THINK IN TERMS OF SORT OF

A NATIONAL CONVERSATION, I THINK

THESE ELEMENTS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN

IN SOCIETY.

I AM NOT ENTIRELY CONVINCED THAT

IT'S GROWING, BUT THE VISIBILITY

SURE IS.

>> OKAY.

PETER, LET ME ASK YOU TO WEIGH

IN ON THIS.

A LITTLE DIFFERENT, BUT AS A

PERSON WHO CHRONICLES SOCIETY,

AS A FILMMAKER, A PERSON WHO

LOOKS THROUGH YOUR LENS, IF YOU

WILL.

WE HAVE HEARD CRITICISM LEVELED

AT THE ADMINISTRATION IN

WASHINGTON -- CLAIMS BEING

MADE -- THAT WORDS THAT ARE

BEING USED, ATTITUDES, POINT TO

CHARLOTTESVILLE AND PRESIDENT

TRUMP SAYING GOOD PEOPLE ON BOTH

SIDES AND OTHER INSTANCES AND WE

ARE HEARING PEOPLE SAY THAT IS

HELPING TO FAN THE FLAMES.

IS THAT POLITICAL ATTACKS OR DO

YOU SEE A LEGITIMACY TO THIS

TYPE OF CRITICISM THAT WORDS

FROM LEADERS SUCH AS THE

PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES

CAN LEND CREDENCE AND GIVE

MOMENTUM TO MOVEMENTS SUCH AS

THIS?

>> I CERTAINLY THINK WORDS DO

BETTER AND HAVE POWER.

BUT I TRY AND RETURN TO LOOK AT

THIS THROUGH THE LENS OF

MASCULINITY WHEN I CAN, WHICH IS

MEN IN AMERICA, PARTICULARLY

WHITE MEN, ARE STRUGGLING WITH

SOME VERY ROEAL FACTORS,

ECONOMIC, DISLOCATION, CHANGES

IN SOCIETAL ATTITUDES AND

EXPECTATIONS AROUND MEN AND

MANHOOD.

AND I THINK A LOT OF MEN ARE

STRUGGLING.

I THINK THEY ARE STRUGGLING WITH

THEIR SENSE OF EIDENTITY IN TERS

OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE A MAN.

AND HOW TO EXERCISE OR HOW TO

EXPRESS OR HOW TO FEEL FULFILLED

IN TERMS OF BEING A MAN OR IN

TERMS OF WHAT THEIR MANHOOD

MEANS.

AND I THINK UNTIL WE ARE ABLE TO

REALLY FIND NEW WAYS TO HELP MEN

ADJUST TO THESE THINGS AND

DEVELOP NEW UNDERSTANDINGS AND

NEW MODES OF WHAT IT MEANS TO BE

A MAN THAT ARE MORE FLEXIBLE

AND -- I THINK WE WILL CONTINUE

TO RUN INTO THESE PROBLEMS.

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE LAST

FIVE DECADES IN AMERICA, THIS IS

A DYNAMIC THAT HAS BEEN

EXPLOITED TIME AND AGAIN.

THIS IS NOTHING NEW.

WHAT IS HAPPENING WITH TRUMP IS

PART OF POLITICAL STRATEGY.

YOU COULD TAKE IT ALL OF THE WAY

BACK, BUT IT WAS MORE

SPECIFICALLY EMPLOYED FROM NIXON

ON.

>> GENTLEMEN, IT HAS BEEN A

FASCINATING CONVERSATION.

I WISH I HAD TIME TO TALK WITH

YOU MORE.

ONCE AGAIN, CALLED "HEALING FROM

HATE, BATTLE FOR THE SOUL OF A

NATION."

GENTLEMEN, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

GREAT FILM, THOUGHT PROVOKING

FILM.

I APPRECIATE YOU TAKING TIME TO

TALK WITH US.

BE WELL.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING US.

>> TAKE CARE.

>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE

BY

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG,

JANET PRINDLE SEIDLER,

JODY AND JOHN ARNHOLD,

CHERYL AND PHILIP MILSTEIN

FAMILY,

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

JUDY AND JOSH WESTON,

DR. ROBERT C. AND TINA SOHN

FOUNDATION.