>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS."

I'M JENNA FLANAGAN.

SINCE THE EARLY DAYS OF THE

CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC ASIAN

AMERICANS HAVE EXPERIENCED A

DRAMATIC INCREASE IN TARGETED

INSTANCES OF RACISM,

DISCRIMINATION, AND VIOLENT HATE

CRIMES.

THIS IS TRUE ALL ACROSS THE

COUNTRY, BUT ESPECIALLY HERE IN

NEW YORK CITY WHERE REPORTED

HATE CRIMES AGAINST ASIAN

AMERICANS HAVE INCREASED

NINE-FOLD OVER THE PAST YORE.

THE ASIAN AMERICAN BAR

ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK HAS

RECENTLY RELEASED A REPORT

DETAILING THE DISTURBING TREND

AND PLACING MUCH OF THE BLAME ON

THE RHETORIC OF THE FORMER

PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP.

AS PART OF OUR EXPLORING HATE

INITIATIVE, EXAMINING THE

INTERSECTION OF ANTI-SEMITISM,

RACISM AND EXTREMISM IN AMERICA,

WE ARE JOINED TONIGHT BY CHRIS

KWOK, A BOARD MEMBER FOR THE

ASIAN AMERICAN BAR ASSOCIATION

OF NEW YORK TO DISCUSS THE

FINDINGS OF THEIR REPORT.

CHRIS, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR

JOINING ME ON THE PROGRAM.

>> GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> SO, FROM YOUR REPORT, I JUST

WANT TO GET A SENSE, ESPECIALLY

FOR OUR AUDIENCE, WHEN DID WE

START TO SEE A RISE IN HATE

CRIMES?

WAS IT INSTAN STAIN-TANEOUS OR

WAS THERE A BUILD THAT YOU SAW?

>> BUILD BEGINNING IN JANUARY OF

2020, CHINATOWN STARTED S SEEIN

DECREASE IN JANUARY.

THE CHINATOWN WHAT WAS HAPPENING

IN CHINA AND THE SHUT DOWN IN

MARCH AND THE PRESS CONFERENCE,

CHINA VIRUS, KUNG FLEW, CHINESE

FLU, THAT TURNED UP THE HEAT

WHITE HOT.

>> SO AS I MENTIONED IN THE

INTRO, THE REPORT INDICATES THAT

A LOT OF THIS CAN BE ATTRIBUTED

TO FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD

TRUMP.

NOW, OF COURSE, YOU USED ONE OF

THE INFLAMMATORY NICKNAMES HE

HAD GIVEN THE CORONAVIRUS.

DOES THE BUILD, IF YOU WILL, OF

HATE CRIMES, DOES THAT COINCIDE

WITH THE AMOUNT OF RHETORIC THAT

WAS COMING FROM THE WHITE HOUSE

AT THE TIME, OR WITH THE

INTENSITY OF IT?

IS THERE A CORRELATION THAT YOU

WERE ABLE TO DRAW?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

JUST INTENSELY PERSONAL FEEL.

YOU FELT THAT IT TARGETED, A

TARGET HAD BEEN PAINTED ON YOUR

BACK.

SO IMMEDIATELY I WAS, LIKE,

THINKING ABOUT SHOULD I GO OUT

TO THE SUPERMARKET?

I AM NOT SURE IF I SHOULD GO OUT

THERE, YOU KNOW.

AND, YOU KNOW, HONESTLY,

SPEAKING AS AN ASIAN AMERICAN,

AS A CHINESE-AMERICAN, I NEVER

HAD TO WORRY ABOUT THAT.

I FELT BOTH SHOCKED, BUT THEN

ALSO EMPATHY, I THINK, BECAUSE,

I THINK, I HAVE BEEN READING --

I AM A SCHOLAR OF RACE.

I WORKED IN RACE RELATIONS.

YOU READ ABOUT AFRICAN AMERICANS

DRIVING WHILE BLACK, WALKING --

ANYTHING, JOGGING WHILE BLACK.

>> OF COURSE.

>> THAT'S WRONG, BUT, LIKE, I

NEVER PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED

THAT INTERNALLY, YOU KNOW.

AND SO I FELT EMPATHY.

I ALSO FELT INTENSE FEAR MUCH I

WAS, LIKE, WOW, THIS IS WHAT IT

FEELS LIKE.

I HAD ALWAYS JUST INTELLECTUALLY

PARISH RATED IT, BUT I

PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED IT FOR

THE FIRST TIME.

>>, OF COURSE.

AND, I MEAN, THAT'S GOING TO

BRING UP SO MANY FEELINGS FOR

ANYBODY.

BUT AGAIN, JUST FOR THE

AUDIENCE'S UNDERSTANDING, WHAT

EXACTLY IS IT THAT WE'RE TALKING

ABOUT BECAUSE WE HAVE HEARD OF

SOME HORRIFIC CRIMES, ASSAULTS,

SOME THAT HAVE EVEN RESULTED IN

DEATHS, UNFORTUNATELY.

BUT AT LEAST FROM WHAT YOU WERE

ABLE TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT WHAT'S

GOING ON IN NEW YORK, WHAT KIND

OF CRIMES, HATE CRIMES, ARE WE

TALKING ABOUT?

>> A LOT OF THEM ARE WHAT WE

HAVE, YOU KNOW, TERMED HATE

INCIDENTS.

THEY ARE VERBAL HARASSMENT.

THEY INVOLVE SPITTING.

YOU KNOW, SHUNNING.

LIKE, DON'T COME HERE, DON'T

COME CLOSE TO ME.

SO 90% IS THAT.

AND THAT CREATES A REALLY

TERRIBLE CLIMATE FOR ASIAN

AMERICANS.

ABOUT 10% OF THEM ARE WHAT WE

CALL HATE CRIMES.

THEY ARE, YOU KNOW, LIKE, YOU

KNOW, ASSAULTS OR THINGS THAT

BECOME PHYSICAL.

AND SO THAT -- THOSE HATE

CRIMES, AS YOU SAID, NINE FOLD

INCREASE FROM 2019 WHEN THERE

WAS NO COVID-19 TO 2020 WHEN IT

HIT SORT OF ALMOST, YOU KNOW,

SORT OF IMMEDIATELY AND WITH,

YOU KNOW, GREAT SURPRISE TO US.

>> NOW, ONE OF THE OTHER STORIES

THAT WE HAVE ALSO FOLLOWED IS,

OF COURSE, BECAUSE 2020 AMONGST

EVERYTHING ELSE THAT WAS

HAPPENING WAS ALSO A CENSUS YEAR

AND THERE WAS A CONCERN ABOUT

CERTAIN IMMIGRANT GROUPS NOT

FEELING COMFORTABLE PERHAPS

ANSWERING THE CENSUS.

NOT THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT

THAT ISSUE SPECIFICALLY RIGHT

NOW, BUT I DO WONDER IF THERE IS

PERHAPS AN UNDERREPORTING OF THE

NUMBER OF INCIDENTS SIMPLY

BECAUSE THE ASIAN COMMUNITY HAS

A LARGE IMMIGRANT POPULATION AND

SOME PEOPLE MIGHT NOT FEEL AS

COMFORTABLE REPORTING CERTAIN

CRIMES OR CERTAIN INCIDENTS LIKE

YOU SAID TO THE POLICE?

>> THAT'S A HUGE PART OF IT.

SO THERE IS THAT.

THERE IS THE LANGUAGE DWOID.

THERE IS A FEELING THAT IT'S

FWKEL GOING TO BE A WASTE OF

TIME.

AN ENORMOUS COMMITMENT OF

RESOURCES, I WILL HAVE TO SPEND

12 HOURS AT THE POLICE STATION

AND NOTHING WILL HAPPEN SO

WHAT'S THE POINT, RIGHT.

BUT THEN I THINK BEYOND THAT IS

FOR US AS AABANY AN INSTITUTION

SORT OF FEELING THAT, HEY, ARE

THE POLICE, ARE THE DISTRICT

ATTORNEYS GOING TO TAKE THOSE

THINGS SERIOUSLY AND HELP PEOPLE

FEEL A SENSE OF SAFETY AGAIN,

YOU KNOW, IN PONCE TO THOSE

THINGS.

WE DON'T FEEL THAT'S THERE AS

WELL.

>> WELL, DO WE KNOW WHERE THESE

PARTICULAR INACCIDENTS ARE

HAPPENING?

AGAIN THIS IS SOMETHING WE KNOW

IS HAPPENING ACROSS THE COUNTRY,

BUT NEW YORK BEING A VERY

MULTICULTURAL CITY STILL HAS

SOME VERY HOMOGENOUS

NEIGHBORHOODS IN IT.

I'M WONDERING IF THIS IS A

CITYWIDE THING OR HAPPENING IN

CERTAIN AREAS.

>> THIS IS A CITYWIDE THING.

THIS IS NOT SORT OF RESTRICT

TODAY THE CHINA TOWNS OR LIKE

THE AREAS WITH LARGE ASIAN

POPULATIONS.

JUST LIKE, YOU KNOW, ASIAN

AMERICANS ARE PART OF THE FABRIC

OF THE CITY, SO THEY'RE

EVERYWHERE.

THE INCIDENTS ARE HAPPENING FROM

THE UPPER EAST SIDE, UPPER

MANHATTAN, QUEENS, BROOKLYN.

UNFORTUNATELY, IT'S NOT, YOU

KNOW, SORT OF RESTRICTED TO ANY

ONE GEOGRAPHICAL CHINATOWN.

>> NOW, LIKE SO MANY OTHER

GROUPS, BEING ASIAN AMERICAN

CASTS A VERY WIDE NET FOR A LOT

OF PEOPLE, AND I WONDER IF THERE

WERE SPECIFIC GROUPS, SPECIFIC

NATIONALITIES WITHIN THE ASIAN

AMERICAN, UNDER THE ASIAN

AMERICAN UMBRELLA THAT WERE

EXPERIENCED MORE HATE CRIMES.

LIKE, BASICALLY WERE THERE

CERTAIN PEOPLE BEING TARGETED,

OBVIOUSLY, UNFORTUNATELY, BUT

FOR HOW THEY LOOKED?

>> ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

YOU KNOW, OVER 46, 47 GROUPS

WITHIN THE ASIAN AMERICAN GROUP

IS REALLY BIG.

GOING BACK TO 9/11, SOUTH

ASIANS, SOUTH ASIANS AS PART OF

THE ASIAN AMERICAN GROUP FACED A

LOT OF, YOU KNOW, ANGER AND

HATRED BECAUSE THEY WERE THOUGHT

AND PERCEIVED TO BE MUSLIM.

SO SIX WERE KILLED.

FIRST PERP KILLED AFTER 9/11

SIKH.

MANY ARE MUSLIM.

MANY ARE NOT.

NOT THAT IT MATTERS, BUT THEY

WERE PERCEIVED TO BE.

POST-9/11 AND AGAIN IN 2016 A

LOT OF UPSURGE IN HATE DIRECTED

TOWARDS THEM BECAUSE OF WHAT

THEY LOOKED LIKE AND WHO THEY

WERE PERCEIVED TO BE.

EAST ASIANS DIDN'T SUFFER THAT

IN THE 9/11 ERA, RIGHT.

BUT WITH THE COVID-19, IT'S

PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE ME, EAST

ASIANS, YOU KNOW,

PARTICULARLY -- OR THOUGHT TO BE

EAST ASIAN, THOSE ARE THE

TARGETS IN THIS WAVE.

>> WHAT ARE THE GREATEST

CONCERNS, I GUESS, FOR -- I

MEAN, WE ARE BEGINNING TO TALK

ABOUT THE CONCEPT OF A

POST-PANDEMIC WORLD, ALTHOUGH

NOBODY SEEMS TO NE WHAT EXACTLY

THAT EVEN LOOKS LIKE, BUT WHAT

ARE YOUR BIGGEST CONCERNS AS WE

MOVE INTO THIS SO-CALLED

POST-PANDEMIC WORLD WITH SO MUCH

NOT ONLY MISUNDERSTANDING BUT,

OF COURSE, VIOLENT OUTBURSTS

THAT HAVE BEEN INCREASING?

>> YOU KNOW, I MEAN, AMERICA, AS

A COUNTRY, EVERY COUNTRY HAS

EXPERIENCED COVID-19 KIND OF AS

A STRESS TEST, I THINK, ON THEIR

SORT OF SOCIAL FABRIC, AND I

THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, EVERYTHING

WE'VE TALKED ABOUT, EVEN THOUGH

WE LOCATE THE MOST, NOW, RECENT

UPSURGE WITH TRUMP, IT'S BEEN IN

AMERICA FROM ITS FOUNDING.

THE STRUCTURAL RACISM.

WHICH BLM TALKED ABOUT, ITS

MANIFESTATIONS ARE MANY FOLD AND

ANTI-ASIA BE DISCRIMINATION AND

RACISM ARE A PART.

SOME PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WE CAN'T

TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE WE ARE

FOCUSED ON BLM.

I SAY TO THEM, IT'S THE SAME

THING.

WE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME THING.

WE ARE FIGHTING THE SAME ENEMY.

WE DON'T NEED TO SAY WE CAN'T

TALK ABOUT THIS BECAUSE WE ARE

FOCUSED ON BLM.

STRUCK CHAURL RACISM IS MANY

MANIFESTATIONS.

COMING OUT OF THIS IS THE

MINORITY GROUPS DON'T FIGHT EACH

OTHER BECAUSE THAT DISTRACTS

FROM THE OVERALL STRUCTURE.

THAT'S MY SORT OF, LIKE --

THAT'S OUR SORT OF CALL TO

PROVIDE SAFETY.

I THINK THAT'S THE IMMEDIATE

CONCERN, THAT PEOPLE FEEL SAFE.

CAN I GO TO THE SUPERMARKET?

CAN I GO TO WORK?

CAN I WALK DOWN THE STREET,

RIGHT?

WE THINK THERE IS A ROLE FOR THE

POLICE.

THERE IS SOME CONTROVERSY WITHIN

THE ASIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY

ABOUT THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT

IT'S A RACIST INSTITUTION, WE

SHOULDN'T FURTHER FUND IT.

WE AGREE THERE NEEDS TO BE

REFORM.

WE ALSO THINK SAFETY IS

IMPORTANT FOR OUR ELDERS, FOR R

WOMEN BECAUSE ASIAN AMERICAN

WOMEN ARE 2 1/2 TIMES MORE

LIKELY TO BE HARASSED THAN ASIAN

AMERICAN MEN.

ELDERLY PEOPLE, ELDERLY, YOU

KNOW, ELDERLY ASIAN AMERICANS

AND FEMALE ASIAN AMERICANS ARE

FAR MORE LIKELY TO BE THE

SUBJECT OF THESE ATTACKS.

SO WE NEED TO SORT OF GET THAT

OUT THERE, MAKE SURE THEY'RE

SAFE AND THEN WE NEED TO TACKLE

I THINK THE BIGGER PROBLEMS,

STRUCTURAL ISSUES, STRUCTURAL

RACISM IN AMERICA.

>> OF COURSE.

WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT SAFETY, ONE

OF THE THINGS THAT HAS BEEN

TALKED ABOUT PERHAPS IS SOME

SORT OF A VOLUNTEER BUDDY

SYSTEM, PARTICULARLY FOR ELDER

ASIAN AMERICANS, SO THAT THEY

CAN GO OUT AND FEEL LIKE THEY'RE

SAFE AND TO HAVE PERHAPS, I

DON'T KNOW, A YOUNGER PERSON OR

SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITH THEM.

IS THAT SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE

AS, LIKE, A GOOD THING?

BECAUSE AT LEAST ON THE SURFACE

IT SOUNDS LIKE A COMMUNITY, YOU

KNOW, ENGAGEMENT, LET'S GET

TOGETHER AND HELP, BUT PERHAPS

COULD THAT ALSO, I DON'T KNOW,

HAVE AN UNFORESEEN NEGATIVE

EFFECT?

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT AS A COMMUNITY SORT

OF, LIKE, PROJECT IT SOUNDS GOOD

AND, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY

ENCOURAGE, LIKE, SORT OF THAT.

BUT IF IT ENKURNGS SORT OF

CONFRONTATIONS AND LEADS TO

THESE THINGS, THAT'S SOMETHING

WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL ABOUT AND,

I MEAN, WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT

HOW WE ENGAGE COMMUNITY SAFETY.

I MEAN, PART OF THAT IS THAT I

THINK THAT EVERYONE IS FEELING A

LOT OF STRESS AND, YOU KNOW, AS

A RESULT OF COVID-19.

EVERYONE IS PUSHED TO THEIR

LIMITS.

FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU AND I THAT

WE CAN WORK AT HOME WE ARE

LUCKY.

MANY PEOPLE ARE FAR MORE

STRESSED.

MAYBE WE ARE SEEING THOSE THINGS

PLAY OUT ON THE STREETS, PEOPLE

LASHING OUT.

MAYBE THEY ARE LASHING OUT AT

PEOPLE THAT LOOK ASIAN BECAUSE

THEY FEEL LIKE YOU BROUGHT IT

HERE.

YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

WE TALK ABOUT AID, WE TALK ABOUT

THAT PACKAGE, WE TALK ABOUT

UNEMPLOYMENT BEING EXTENDED, WE

ARE TALKING ABOUT -- THOSE ARE

THE THINGS THAT WE CAN PUT INTO

SOCIETY TO MEND THOSE SORT OF,

LIKE, BRINKS THAT ARE PUSHING

PEOPLE TO THE LIMIT.

THAT'S WHAT I THINK WE ARE

SEEING.

THEY ARE LASHING OUT AT EACH

OTHER ON THE STREET BECAUSE

THERE IS ALL THIS PRESSURE.

SO, I MEAN, I SEE IT AND WEI WAT

TO PROTECT ASIAN AMERICANS BUT

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT'S SAFE

FOR EVERYONE, RIGHT.

WE WANT A GOOD SOCIETY WHERE

PEOPLE ARE TAKING CARE OF THE

ELDERLY, VULNERABLE ARE NOT

PUSHED TO HOMELESSNESS.

IF WE DON'T CARE OF THOSE THINGS

RIGHT AWAY, I THINK PEOPLE ARE

BEING PUSHED CLOSE TO BREAKING

POINT.

>> CHRIS KWOK, THANK YOU SO MUCH

FOR JOINING US ON "METROFOCUS."

CHRIS KWOK IS A BOARD MEMBER FOR

THE ASIAN AMERICAN BOARD

ASSOCIATION OF -- EXCUSE ME, BAR

ASSOCIATION OF NEW YORK.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING

ME.

OF COURSE, FOR GIVING SOME

CONTEXT AND A BETTER

UNDERSTANDING OF AT LEAST THESE

UNFORTUNATE INCIDENTS THAT WE

ARE SEEING HAPPENING.

OF COURSE, PERHAPS WHAT COULD BE

THE ROAD BACK FROM SOMETHING

LIKE THAT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.