> THIS IS ‘METROFOCUS’ WITH RAFAEL PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA FLANAGAN.

‘METROFOCUS’ IS MADE POSSIBLE BY —

> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO ‘METROFOCUS.’

I’M JENNA FLANAGAN.

OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, MANY AMERICANS ARE AWAKENING TO A HARSH REALITY, THAT THE UNITED STATES IS NOT THE SHINING CITY ON A HILL THAT MANY OF US GREW UP BELIEVING IT TO BE.

SINCE THE START OF THE PANDEMIC, WE HAVE SEEN A RISE IN RACIALLY MOTIVATED HATE CRIMES, VIOLENT ATTACKS OF ANTI-SEMITISM AND POLITICAL SHIFTS AWAY FROM DEMOCRACY.

IN A NEW BOOK OUT ‘IT COULD HAPPEN HERE,’ IT EXAMINES THE CRUCIAL POINT OF HISTORY THAT WE FIND OURSELVES IN AND EXPLAINS THAT IF THESE ACTS OF PREJUDICE AND HATE CONTINUE TO GAIN MOMENTUM, POLITICALLY AND RACIALLY MOTIVATED VIOLENCE ON AN EVEN LARGER AND EVEN MORE CATASTROPHIC SCALE COULD BE JUST AROUND THE CORNER.

AS PART OF OUR EXPLORING HATE INITIATIVE, EXAMINING THE ROOTS AND RISE OF ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM AND EXTREMISM IN AMERICA, WE ARE JOINED BY THE AUTHOR, JONATHAN GREENBLATT WHO IS THE CEO OF THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE.

WELCOME TO ‘METROFOCUS.’

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

FIRST I WANT TO START JUST WITH THE TITLE OF YOUR BOOK ‘IT COULD HAPPEN HERE.’

WHAT IS THE ‘IT’ THAT YOU ARE GETTING AT IN REFERENCE TO HERE IN AMERICA?

I WROTE THIS BOOK TO REFLECT WHAT I HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST FIVE TO SIX YEARS HERE AS THE CEO OF ABL.

THE OLDEST ANTI-HATE ORGANIZATION IN THE WORLD.

WE HAVE NEVER SEEN A MOMENT LIKE THIS.

OVER THE LAST AGAIN HALF DECADE, WE HAVE SEEN NEARLY THE DOUBLING OF ANTI-SEMITIC INCIDENTS IN THIS COUNTRY.

WE HAVE SEEN A RISE OF HATE CRIMES OF ALL VARIETY.

AN INTENSIFICATION OF EXTREMISM IN WAYS THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN SIMPLY UNBELIEVABLE.

TRYING TO PROCESS THIS LED ME TO TRY TO WRITE THIS BOOK AND TALK ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON.

AT THE SAME TIME, I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT NOT JUST IN THE CONTEXT OF ADL, BUT MY OWN HISTORY.

I’M THE GRANDSON OF A HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR FROM GERMANY.

MY JEWISH GRANDFATHER AND HIS FAMILY WERE BORN IN GERMANY.

IT WAS THE ONLY COUNTRY THEY KNEW.

HE NEVER WOULD HAVE IMAGINED THAT BEFORE THE THIRD REICH THAT ONE DAY THE ONLY COUNTRY HE HAD EVER KNOWN WOULD TURN ON HIM, REGARD HIM AS AN ENEMY OF THE STATE, DESTROY EVERYTHING HE LOVED AND SLAUGHTER NEARLY HIS ENTIRE FAMILY AND NETWORK OF FRIENDS, FORCING HIM TO FLEE TO THIS COUNTRY AS A REFUGEE.

THEN I AM THE HUSBAND OF AN IRANIAN JEWISH WOMAN.

HER FAMILY, SISTER, IN-LAWS, EVERYONE, THEY WERE BORN AND RAISED IN IRAN.

NEVER COULD HAVE IMAGINED, BEFORE THE ISLAMIC REVOLUTION AND THE RIAT THE COUNTRY WOULD ON THEM, REGARD THEM AS ENEMIES OF THE STATE, DESTROY EVERYTHING THEY LOVED AND FORCE THEM TO FLEE FOR THEIR LIVES AND COME TO THIS COUNTRY, AGAIN, AS REFUGEES.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE RECENT EXPERIENCE OF MY JEWISH GRANDFATHER OR MY JEWISH WIFE AND HER FAMILY FROM THE MIDDLE EAST, IT REMINDS ME THAT THOSE PLACES, THE ONLY THINGS THEY HAD KNOWN AS HE HAD COULD GO AWAY, SO COULD THAT HAPPEN TO US HERE IN AMERICA.

THE REALITY IS THE INDICATORS ARE TELLING US SOMETHING IS GOING ON.

AS I WROTE THIS BOOK, I TALKED TO EXPERTS WHO HAVE STUDIED THINGS LIKE POLITICAL EXTREMISM AND CIVIL WAR.

I WORRY THAT WHAT THE ‘IT’ COULD BE, THINK ABOUT IT AS A CIVIL KIND OF UNRAVELING.

THINK ABOUT IT AS LITERAL VIOLENT UNREST.

THINK ABOUT THAT AS THE PERSECUTION OF A MINORITY.

AS CRAZY AS THAT MIGHT SOUND, WE KNOW THAT JUST A YEAR AND A HALF AGO, IF I HAD TOLD YOU THAT ARMED MILITANTS WOULD STORM THE U.S. CAPITOL, LITERALLY OVERTAKE THE POLICE AND TRY TO KIDNAP AND KILL MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, WOULD YOU HAVE THOUGHT THAT UNTHINKABLE.

I WORRY A GREAT DEAL ABOUT WHERE WE ARE NOW, BECAUSE I DO THINK IT COULD HAPPEN HERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BOTH OF THOSE STORIES OF YOUR PERSONAL HISTORY THAT CAUGHT MY ATTENTION IS THAT IN BOTH CASES, WHILE YOUR GRANDFATHER AND YOUR WIFE’S FAMILY ENDED UP HAVING TO FLEE THEIR COUNTRIES OF ORIGIN, IT WAS THIS COUNTRY THEY CAME TO.

THAT’S THE STORY FOR SO MANY IMMIGRANTS COMING TO AMERICA.

I’M WONDERING IF BECAUSE THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE THE SAFE SPACE, THAT’S PERHAPS GIVEN US A FALSE SENSE OF WHAT’S POSSIBLE HERE.

THERE IS SOME REAL TRUTH TO THAT.

AMERICA — I’M SOMEONE WHO BELIEVES IN AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM.

THIS HAS BEEN THE MOST VIBRANT, RESILIENT, DYNAMIC DEMOCRACY IN THE HISTORY OF THE HUMAN RACE.

WHAT’S BEEN ACHIEVED HERE IN 250 YEARS.

THERE ARE REAL ISSUES WITH AMERICA, TO BE CLEAR.

WE WERE THIS COUNTRY, IT WAS BUILT ON THE BACKS, WITH THE HANDS OF ENSLAVED AFRICANS WHO WERE BROUGHT HERE IN CHAINS AGAINST THEIR WILL.

I THINK THAT STAIN OF RACISM AND THE AFRICAN ENSLAVEMENT IS SOMETHING WE ARE STILL — A LEGACY WE ARE STILL DEALING WITH TODAY.

THE COUNTRY WAS ALSO BUILT AT THE EXPENSE OF NATIVE AMERICANS AND THE GENOCIDE OF THAT PEOPLE IS STILL SOMETHING WE ARE WRESTLING WITH TODAY.

AND YET THE FOUNDING FATHERS HAD THIS NOTION OF A DEMOCRACY THAT WOULD SEEK TO BE A MORE PERFECT UNION.

AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN THIS COUNTRY HAS DEMONSTRATED AN AMAZING ABILITY TO REBOUND FROM CALAMITY AND TO BE BETTER THAN IT WAS IN THE PRIOR GENERATION.

AND YET, WE DO — I THINK WE HAVE BEEN, IF YOU WILL, LULLED INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY.

DEMOCRACY FOR ALL OF ITS ADVANTAGES IS NOT PREOR PRE-ORN.

PROBLEMS THAT SEEM UNADDRESSABLE TAKE A TOLL.

I WORRY A GREAT DEAL ABOUT THIS MOMENT BECAUSE SO MANY OF US ARE TREATING DEMOCRACY LIKE A SPECTATOR SPORT, WHEN THE REALITY IS, YOU HAVE GOT TO BE ON THE FIELD AND PLAYING IF YOU WANT THIS GAME TO CONTINUE.

I WANT TO GET BACK TO SOME OF THE STUFF THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO DETERMINE IN YOUR BOOK FROM INTERVIEWING SO MANY EXPERTS.

AND ALSO REFERENCING THE ADL’S PYRAMID OF HATE.

IF YOU COULD EXPLAIN FOR OUR VIEWERS WHO MIGHT NOT BE FAMILIAR WITH THAT.

SECONDLY, WHERE AFTER THE PROCESS OF SPEAKING WITH SO MANY EXPERTS AND REALLY EXAMINING THIS MOMENT, WHERE DO YOU SEE AMERICA ON THAT PYRAMID?

YEAH, THAT’S A GOOD AND I THINK A HARD QUESTION IN SOME WAYS.

LET ME FIRST TAKE THE EASY PART.

THE PYRAMID OF HATE IS A STAPLE OF ADL’S ANTI-BIAS, ANTI-HATE EDUCATIONAL WORK.

LONG AGO WE REALIZE YOU CAN’T ARREST YOUR WAY OUT OF HATE.

YOU HAVE TO CHANGE HEARTS AND MINDS.

WE HAVE BECOME ONE OF THE LARGEST PROVIDERS IN THE COUNTRY OF THIS KIND OF ANTI-HATE CONTENT IN CLASSROOMS.

IN 2021, WE REACHED OVER 3.5 MILLION STUDENTS.

IT’S REMARKABLE WORK.

ONE OF THE LEGSSSONS WE TEACH I THAT YOU HAVE TO INTERRUPT INTOLERANCE IF YOU WANT TO STOP IT AND AT THE EARLIEST STAGE POSSIBLE.

WE EXPLAIN THIS NOTION USING THE PYRAMID OF HATE.

WHICH IS A SOCIOLOGICAL CONSTRUCT THAT WE DEVELOPED DECADES AGO THAT EXPLAINS THAT HATE STARTS WITH BIASED ATTITUDES.

PREJUDICED IDEAS.

FROM THERE, YOU CAN GO UP THE PYRAMID TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE IN BIASED OR HATEFUL COMMENTS AGAINST THAT PEOPLE.

YOUR IDEAS OR IMPULSES TURN INTO REAL WORLD ACTION.

THEN IT MOVES UP AS THOSE BIASED ACTIONS CAN KIND OF GRADUATE INTO WHAT WE MIGHT CALL SYSTEMIC DISCRIMINATION, LIKE WE WERE ALLUDING TO STRUCTURAL RACISM.

IT CAN CAL SKALS CALCIFY.

IT CAN LEAD TO ACTUAL VIOLENCE.

HARASSMENT OR ASSAULT OR WORSE, MURDER.

WE USE THE EXAMPLE OF THE HOLOCAUST.

THE ANNIHILATION, EXTERMINATION AS THE ULTIMATE EXAMPLE OF THAT.

TO BRING IT BACK, THIS BOOK IS REALLY LIKE AN ADL HANDBOOK.

I SHARE LOTS OF TACTICS AND TIPS WE HAVE LEARNED OVER TIME.

THE PYRAMID OF HATE IS FUNDAMENTAL TO THE MODEL, BECAUSE IT ALLOWS US TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HAPPENS WHEN WE DON’T STOP HATE IN ITS TRACKS.

SO, THEREFORE, WHY THIS WORK MATTERS SO MUCH.

SPEAKING OF STOPPING HATE IN ITS TRACKS, I THINK PEOPLE MIGHT IN A SIMILAR WAY — I UNDERSTAND THE ANTI-SEMITISM AND RACISM, WHILE THEY ARE VERY SIMILAR, ARE STILL DIFFERENT IN SOME WAYS.

BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE MIGHT THINK OF THEM ONLY IN THE EXTREME SENSE.

STANDING UP WHENEVER SOMETHING LIKE THAT HAPPENS MIGHT NOT BE RECOGNIZABLE TO EVERYONE IF PEOPLE AROUND YOU ARE ENGAGING IN, LET’S SAY, CASUAL RACISM OR CASUAL ANTI-SEMITISM OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I’M WONDERING IF YOU CAN — IF THE BOOK HELPS PEOPLE UND UNDERSTAND, WHAT ARE THOSE LITTLE, SUBTLE THINGS THAT MAYBE DIDN’T REALIZE WERE PROBLEMATIC?

YEAH.

I MEAN, SOMETIMES THOSE KINDS OF LITTLE THINGS ARE MICRO-AGGRESSIONS.

IF YOU ARE A NATIVE AMERICAN PERSON AND YOU SAW THE MASK OUT OF THE WASHINGTON FOOTBALL TEAM — THEY WERE KNOWN AS THE REDSKINS.

THAT MAY SEEM LIKE MICRO TO OTHERS.

BUT THAT CUTS TO YOUR CORE.

IF YOU ARE A JEWISH PERSON AND YOU SEE REFERENCES THAT THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE KILLING OF JESUS OR YOU SEE SOME OF THE ALLUSIONS THAT PEOPLE ARE CONTROLLING EVENTS BEHIND THE SCENES, THOSE MINUTMYTHS CUT TO CORE.

ANTI-BLACK RACISM EVERY DAY.

WE KNOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT YOUNG BLACK MEN ARE WORRIED ABOUT BEING ARRESTED BY THE POLICE OR PULLED OVER SIMPLY FOR THE CRIME OF, QUOTE, DRIVING WHILE BLACK.

THESE MIGHT SEEM SMALL TO SOME.

THEY AFFECT, YOU KNOW, THE VICTIMIZED COMMUNITIES IN WAYS THAT ARE DEEPER THAN PEOPLE REALIZE.

THEY BUILD INTO MUCH BIGGER.

WE BELIEVE YOU HAVE TO STOP HATE WHEN IT HAPPENS.

NOT JUST WHEN IT’S DIRECTED AGAINST YOU.

I WOULD SAY IN ALL HONESTY, I THINK ABOUT ANTI-BLACK RACISM ISN’T JUST YOUR ISSUE AS A BLACK WOMAN, IT’S MY ISSUE, TOO.

MY PROBLEM, TOO.

JUST LIKE ANTI-JEWISH HATE ISN’T JUST MY PROBLEM AS A JEWISH MAN, IT IS YOUR PROBLEM AS WELL.

YOU MIGHT BE JEWISH.

I DON’T KNOW.

FORGIVE ME.

I THINK ALL OF US LIVE TOGETHER IN THIS SHARED SOCIETY.

ALL OF US HAVE A STAKE IN WORKING TOGETHER TO NOT JUST PRESERVE IT, BUT TO REALLY MAKE IT BETTER.

I THINK A STAKE IN THE SHARED SOCIETY IS AN EXCELLENT WAY OF PUTTING IT FOR ALL OF US TO LOOK AT.

SORT OF BUILDING ON THOSE MICRO-AGGRESSIONS, WHY DO YOU THINK THAT AT THIS MOMENT WE HAVE SEEN SUCH A RISE IN VIOLENT ANTI-SEMITISM?

NOT THE CASUAL STUFF YOU MENTIONED, BUT VIOLENCE.

THERE ARE A FEW FACTORS I THINK THAT HAVE LED US TO THIS POINT WHERE YOU HAVE SEEN THIS INCREASE.

IT’S REAL.

ADL HAS BEEN TRACKING ANTI-SEMITIC INCIDENTS FOR MORE THAN 40 YEARS.

WE HAVE HIT RECORD NUMBERS IN 2019.

THE HIGHEST TOTAL WE HAVE SEEN.

2020, THE THIRD HIGHEST TOTAL.

WE ARE FINALIZING THE 2021 NUMBERS.

SOMETHING IS DEFINITELY GOING ON.

I THINK THERE ARE A FEW THINGS.

WE ARE JUST LIVING IN THE BACKDROP OF THE TWILIGHT OF OUR SURVIVORS, IF YOU WILL.

WE ARE NEARLY 80 YEARS SINCE THE LIBERATION OF AUSCHWITZ AND THE END OF WORLD WAR II.

AS THE MEMORY OF THE HOLOCAUST FADES AND WE LOSE THE FIRSTHAND TESTIMONIES, SOME OF THE COLLECTIVE SHAME THAT WAS THERE WE ARE SEEING GO — DISSIPATE.

PEOPLE FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE SAYING ANTI-JEWISH THINGS.

ANTI -SEMITISM IS THE OLDEST HAHA HATE.

JEWS LIVED IN EXILE.

THEY WERE OFTEN OTHER-IZED, MARGINALIZED.

FORCED TO LIVE IN GET HETTOES.

SO WHEN SYSTEMS FAILED, WHEN YOU HAD UNEXPLAINED EVENTS OR WHEN THE CHURCH OR THE KING OR THE SHAH NEEDED SOMEONE TO BLAME, THE JEWS WERE TYPICALLY AN EASY TARGET.

THEY HAD THEIR OWN LANGUAGE, THEIR OWN RELIGION, THEIR OWN CUSTOMS.

THEY LIVED OVER THERE.

THEY, AGAIN, MADE FOR EASY SCAPEGOATS.

WHY IS ANTI-SEMITISM ON THE RISE?

I THINK NUMBER ONE, LET’S ACKNOWLEDGE, WE LIVE IN VERY DIFFICULT TIMES.

RIGHT?

COVID-19 AND THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND A SOCIOECONOMIC SITUATION.

THE GAP SEEMS TO GROW.

JOBS DON’T RETURN.

WE HAVE POLITICAL PARALYSIS IN WASHINGTON.

FIRST AND FOREMOST, I THINK, THE JEW AS THE SCAPEGOAT IS A FAMILIAR TROPE.

IT’S A RHYTHM THAT WESTERN SOCIETY IS COMFORTABLE WITH.

WE SEE THAT SIMPLY REEMERGING.

THAT’S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, PEOPLE IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY, POLITICAL FIGURES AND PUBLIC PERSONS HAVE SORT OF GIVEN LICENSE TO SOME OF THE WORST ACTORS AND ENABLED AND EMBOLDENED EXTREMISM.

WE SAW IT WITH CANDIDATE TRUMP WHEN HE PRETENDED WHEN SPEAKING TO JAKE TAPPER TO NOT KNOW WHO DAVID DUKE WAS.

WHEN HE TWEETED OUT A NASTY ANTI-SEMITIC MEME AT HILLARY CLINTON TO DENY THE REALITY OF THAT.

HE PLAYED FOOTSIE WITH AWFUL EXTREMISTS AND ALLOWED THE WHITE SUPREMACISTS TO FEEL EMBOLDENED.

WE TRACKED THE EXTREMISTS.

THEY SAID, WE FEEL EMBOLDENED.

HE ISSUED PRESS CREDENTIAL FOR WHITE SUPREMACY MEDIA.

HE DID INTERVIEWED WITH ALEX JONES AND TRUE NEWS AND ANTI-SEMITIC EXTREMIST MARGINAL CHARACTERS AND MOVED THEM INTO THE MAINSTREAM.

FOR EVERY ACTION THERE’S AN EQUAL AND OPPOSITE REACTION.

WHERE IS THE FAR RIGHT?

EXTREMISTS DEMEAN AND DEMONIZE THE JEWISH PEOPLE.

WE HAVE ACTORS ON THE FAR LEFT WHO DEMEAN AND DEMONIZE THE JEWISH STATE.

THE TROPES, THESE LONG-STANDING BIASES HELD AGAINST THE JEWS, THE PEOPLE OR THE STATE, THEY RE-EMERGE.

NUMBER ONE, YOU HAVE THE STEREOTYPE AS A LONG-STANDING TOOL.

NUMBER TWO, I THINK YOU HAVE EXTREMISTS FEELING EMBOLDENED BY THE CHARGED POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT, SOME OF THE PERSONALITIES.

NUMBER THREE, SOCIAL MEDIA.

LITERALLY FACEBOOK AND INSTAGRAM AND TWITTER AND TIKTOK ALL ALGORITHMS AND PROMOTE THE CONTENT WHICH DRIVES CLICKS, NOT WHICH NECESSARILY IS TRUTHFUL.

AS THOSE COMPANIES HAVE NO FILTERS, NO TRIPWIRES, NO MEANS TO STOP THE SERVICES FROM BEING OVERRUN BY EXTREMISTS, YOU HAVE SEEN THEM JUST PROMOTE THE WORST KIND OF PREJUDICE AGAINST JEWS AS WELL AS AGAINST BLACKS, LATINOS.

THAT’S INCREDIBLY ALARMING AND A CAUSAL FACTOR AS WELL.

OF COURSE.

A LOT OF WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT WHEN YOU WERE LAYING THE GROUNDWORK FOR HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT, YOU WERE TALKING A LOT ABOUT HISTORY.

WITH THAT, I ALSO WANT TO GET YOUR TAKE OR YOUR OPINION ON THE FACT THAT, FIRST OF ALL, VERY SPECIFICALLY, THE TENNESSEE SCHOOL BOARD DECIDED TO BAN THE BOOK ‘MAUSE.’

WE SEE A LOT OF OTHER SCHOOL BOARDS AROUND THE COUNTRY ATTEMPT TO CHANGE OR TO PUT THEIR FINGERS IN ON THE SCALE PERHAPS OF HOW HISTORY IS TAUGHT AND WHAT IS APPROPRIATE, WHAT ISN’T, WHAT SHOULD BE BANNED AND WHAT SHOULDN’T.

I APPRECIATE PARENTS WHO WANT TO BE INVOLVED IN THE EDUCATION OF THEIR CHILDREN.

I WELCOME THE PEOPLE THAT VOLUNTEER AND SUPPORT THEIR SCHOOL BOARD AND GET ENGAGED.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A BIT OF A PROCESS BY WHICH YOU LOOK AT A SCHOOL BOARD APPROVES CURRICULUM OR THE PLAN, IF YOU WILL.

YET, THERE IS CERTAINLY A KIND OF OVERREACH THAT CAN OCCUR THAT IS REALLY QUITE FRIGHTENING.

WE HAVE SEEN THAT IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE ISSUES WITH THE SCHOOL BOARDS, WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE GRAPHIC NOVEL.

THE PULITZER PRIZE GRAPHIC WINNING NOVEL THAT WAS BANNED.

IT’S A CARTOON ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

TO BAN IT FOR I THINK OBSCENITY OR NUDITY, NOT ONLY DID IT NOT MAKE SENSE, IT DENIED OUR KIDS ACCESS TO INFORMATION THEY NEED.

THE REALITY IS THAT IF WE DON’T — IF OUR CHILDREN AND DM COMMUNITIES DON’T LEARN FROM THE PAST, WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT.

THERE IS FACT VERSUS FICTION.

WHEN HOLOCAUST DENIAL IS ON THE RISE, WHEN DISTORTIONISM SEEMS TO BE GAINING TRACTION, WE HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO SPEAK UP IN THESE INSTANCES.

THE BANNING WAS SHAMEFUL.

WE SPOKE UP AGAINST IT AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO THAT.

OF COURSE, I WOULD BE REMISS IF I DIDN’T BRING UP THE OTHER BIG ISSUE, AT LEAST IN RELATION TO ANTI-SEMITISM IN POPULAR CULTURE.

THAT WAS THE BANNING OR THE SUSPENSION, EXCUSE ME, OF WHOOPI GOLDBERG FROM ‘THE VIEW’ WITH HER INCORRECT STATEMENTS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

THAT WAS A MOMENT.

SHE’S ONE OF THE MOST VIEWED PERSONALITIES IN DAYTIME TELEVISION.

‘THE VIEW’ IS ONE OF THE MOST WATCHED PROGRAMS ON TV.

WHEN SHE INISTIALLY MADE THE STATEMENT IT WASN’T ABOUT RACE, IT WAS WHITE ON WHITE CRIME, LOOK, IT WAS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT RACE.

SHE GOT IT WRONG.

HITLER TALKED ABOUT ARIANS BEING THE MASTER RACE.

THE JEWS BEING SUB-HUMAN.

IT WAS RACIALIZED ANTI-SEMITISM.

THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT.

I THINK SHE WAS TALKING ABOUT RACE IN THE CONTEXT OF 21st CENTURY AMERICA.

DEALING WITH THE INSTITUTIONAL RACISM THAT PERSISTS TODAY.

THAT’S A VERY SERIOUS ISSUE.

IT’S DIFFERENT THAN WHAT THE JEWISH PEOPLE FACED WHEN THEY WERE EXTERMINATED IN EUROPE.

THESE ARE DIFFERENT NOTIONS OF THE SAME THING.

RACE ITSELF IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT THAT CHANGES ACROSS TIME AND PLACE.

I THINK SHE REALLY GOT IT WRONG.

ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN SHE APOLOGIZED, FIRST VIA TWITTER, AND THEN THE FOLLOWING DAY ON HER PROGRAM, I CAN TELL YOU, I FULLY ACCEPTED HER APOLOGY.

THERE’S A JEWISH VALUE WHICH MEANS REPENTANCE.

WE BELIEVE — I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT WHEN SOMEONE APOLOGIZES IN AN AUTHENTIC WAY, WE NEED TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT AND EMBRACE THEM AND HELP THEM TO LEARN.

WE ARE ALL FALLIBLE.

I WELCOMED HER HUMILITY IN ACKNOWLEDGING SHE GOT IT WRONG.

I JOINED HER ON ‘THE VIEW’ AND THE OTHER HOSTS.

WE TALKED ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST AND ANTI-SEMITISM.

IT WAS A LEARNING OPPORTUNITY NOT JUST FOR HER.

SHE ENABLED THE AUDIENCE TO HAVE THE LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

WHILE ABC NEWS THEN DECIDED TO SUSPEND HER — I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE PROCESS OR STAND ARDS ARE.

THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A MOMENT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT.

WHAT ABOUT 14 DAYS OF LEARNING?

KEEP IN MIND, WE HAVE THIS CONVERSATION IN THE MIDDLE OF FEBRUARY, BLACK HISTORY MONTH.

I DON’T THINK WE SHOULD CONFINE LEARNING ABOUT BLACK HISTORY TO 28 DAYS OF THE YEAR.

I THINK THERE’S ROOM FOR OUR KIDS, CLASSES, COMMUNITIES TO LEARN ABOUT BLACK HISTORY EVERY DAY, JUST LIKE HOLOCAUST ISN’T SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE TAUGHT ON HOLOCAUST REMEMBRANCE DAY, IT SHOULD, BUT THERE’S SPACE TO LEARN ABOUT IT ALL OVER THE YEAR WHEN RELEVANT.

I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE SEEN ‘THE VIEW’ USE THAT PLATFORM TO HAVE A BROADER CONVERSATION ABOUT ANTI-SEMITISM, ABOUT HATE AND HOW WE CAN LEARN FROM IT.

THEY ARE IN THE PROCESS OF TRYING TO IDENTIFY A NEW HOST.

I MADE THE SUGGESTION, THINK ABOUT A JEWISH HOST.

BRING THAT REPRESENTATION RIGHT ON THE SET EVERY SINGLE DAY.

THEY DECIDED TO SUSPEND HER.

I ACCEPTED HER APOLOGY.

I WOULD PREFER A PROCESS OF LEARNING.

I THINK EVERYBODY BENEFITS FROM THAT.

OF COURSE.

SPEAKING OF AA PRO A PROCESS OF LEARNING.

YOUR BOOK IS NOT ALL DOOM AND GLOOM.

SO MUCH EMOTIONAL EXHAUSTION FOR A LOT OF AMERICANS.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE WHOLE OF SOCIETY AND THE ADL’S FORMULA FOR DISMANTLING HATE.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT TO GIVE US TOOLS WE CAN USE?

AS YOU SAID, I WROTE THE BOOK TO SHARE THE STRATEGIES WE LEARN, THE TACTICS AND TIPS.

I CAN QUICKLY GIVE YOU A THUMBNAIL.

FIRST I WOULD SAY, WHEN YOU SEE HATE, SPEAK UP.

SPEAKING UP MATTERS.

THEY SAY WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING.

I THINK WHETHER IT’S AT THE WATER COOLER, ON THE ZOOM, OR IN THE LOCKER ROOM OR AT THE DINNER TABLE OR ON FACEBOOK, OR IN YOUR TWITTER THREAD, WHEN YOU SEE HATE, SPEAK UP AND INTERRUPT INTOLERANCE.

THAT’S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT.

BY THE WAY, IT’S IMPORTANT TO DO THAT, BEING AN ALLY FOR OTHERS.

SPEAK UP NOT JUST WHEN THE HATE IS DIRECTED AT YOU OR YOUR COMMUNITY BUT AT OTHER PEOPLE, TOO.

ALL OF US CAN BE AND SHOULD BE ALLIES.

I ALSO THINK WE HAVE ANTICIPATE OBLIGATION TO SPEAK UP WHEN IT COMES FROM OUR SIDE, IF YOU WILL.

THERE IS NO HOME TEAM IN LIFE.

WE ARE ALL — THERE’S NO HOME TEAM IN THE HUMAN RACE.

WE’RE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

IF YOU ARE A CONSERVATIVE AND YOU SEE IT HAPPENING AMONG CONSERVATIVES, SPEAK OUT.

F IF YOU ARE A LIBERAL, YOU SEE IT HAPPENING AMONG PROGRESSIVES, SPEAK OUT.

THAT’S NUMBER ONE.

NUMBER TWO, SHARE FACTS.

DIAL DOWN THE EMOTION.

FOCUS ON THE DATA.

DON’T SHARE THAT CRAZY EMAIL FROM YOUR MOTHER’S NEIGHBOR’S UNCLE.

GIVE ME A BREAK.

WE ALL NEED TO RELAX A LITTLE BIT, TAKE A BEAT AND TRY TO STAY MEA MEASURED.

ACROSS THE BOARD, ALL OF US NEED TO DIAL IT DOWN A BIT.

THEN THIRDLY, SHOW STRENGTH.

WE SHOULDN’T BE AFRAID TO REALIZE THAT FIGHTING HATE IS AN ALL HANDS ON DECK EXERCISE.

THERE’S NO MAGIC WARD WE CAN WAVE.

WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER.

WORKING TOGETHER, LEANING IN, THIS MATTERS SO, SO MUCH.

THAT COULD MEAN ALL OF US CAN FIND DIFFERENT WAYS TO LEAN IN.

AS I SAID BEFORE, DEMOCRACY, IT’S A — IT’S NOT A SPECTATOR SPORT.

YOU HAVE TO BE ON THE FIELD.

VOLUNTEER, VOTE, RUN FOR OFFICE, MAKE A DONATION, GET INVOLVED.

SHOW UP AT THAT SCHOOL BOARD MEETING NOT TO SCREAM ABOUT MASKING MANDATES BUT TO TRY TO HAVE A PRODUCTIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT YOUR KIDS ARE LEARNING IN SCHOOL.

THERE’S A NUMBER OF WAYS.

IF ALL OF US CAN REMEMBER WE NEED TO SPEAK OUT, SHARE FACTS AND SHOW STRENGTH, I DON’T KNOW IF WE CAN PUT THE GENIE BACK IN THE BOTTLE, BUT WE CAN HALT HATE WHEN IT HAPPENS.

I WANT TO THANK OUR GUEST FOR JOINING US.

THE BOOK IS A CRITICALLY IMPORTANT READ FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING NOT ONLY WHAT’S GOING ON BUT HOW WE CAN MOVE FORWARD AS A SOCIETY AND, OF COURSE, JONATHAN, YOU ARE THE CEO OF THE ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US TONIGHT ON ‘METROFOCUS.’

THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

ABSOLUTELY.

‘METROFOCUS’ IS MADE POSSIBLE BY —