>>> TONIGHT THE U.S. AND THE

HOLOCAUST, KEN BURNS ON THE NEW

PBS DOCUMENTARY SERIES HE CALLS

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT OF HIS

CAREER.

WHAT DID AMERICANS KNOW ABOUT

THE HORRORS OF NAZI GERMANY AND

WHAT LESSONS HAVE WE LEARNED

SINCE?

"METROFOCUS" STARTS RIGHT NOW.

♪♪

THIS IS "METROFOCUS" WITH RAFAEL

PI ROMAN, JACK FORD AND JENNA

FLANAGAN.

"METROFOCUS" IS MADE POSSIBLE

BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

SYLVIA A. AND SIMON B. POYTA

PROGRAMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT

ANTI-SEMITISM.

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE

AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND

BY --

♪♪

♪♪

>>> GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO

"METROFOCUS," I'M JACK FORD.

COULD AMERICA HAVE DONE MORE AS

HORRORS OF NAZIISM AND THE

HOLOCAUST UNFOLDED.

THAT'S ONE OF THE CENTRAL

QUESTIONS BEEN "U.S. AND THE

HOLOCAUST" A SERIES THAT

EXAMINES AMERICA'S RESPONSE

BEFORE, DURING AND AFTER

HITLER'S RISE TO POWER.

IT PROVIDES UNVARNISHED,

REVEALING LOOK AT THE HISTORICAL

RECORD, AND SHEDS LIGHT ON WHAT

THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AND AMERICAN

PUBLIC KNEW OR DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT

WHAT WAS HAPPENING OVERSEAS AS

ANTI-SEMITISM ESCALATED INTO

MASS MURDER.

HERE'S A PREVIEW.

>> WE TELL OURSELVES STORIES AS

A NATION.

ONE THAT WE'RE A LAND OF

IMMIGRANTS.

BUT IN MOMENTS OF CRISIS IT

BECOMES HARD FOR US TO LIVE UP

TO THOSE STORIES.

>> THE HOLOCAUST WAS BEYOND

BELIEF.

PEOPLE JUST DISAPPEARED.

>> THE PRIMARY GOAL WAS GET TO

THE UNITED STATES.

>> BUT THE GOLDEN DOOR WAS NOT

WIDE OPEN.

>> WE'RE CHALLENGED AS AMERICANS

TO THINK ABOUT WHAT WE WOULD

HAVE HAVE DONE, WHAT WE COULD

HAVE DONE, WHAT WE SHOULD HAVE

DONE.

>> IN OUR BETTER MOMENTS, WE ARE

VERY GOOD PEOPLE.

BUT THAT'S NOT ALL THERE IS TO

THIS STORY.

>> JOINING US NOW AS PART OF OUR

EXPLORING HATE INITIATIVE,

EXAMINING THE ROOTS AND RISE OF

ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM AND

EXTREMISM IN AMERICA, ARE TWO OF

THE COPRODUCERS AND DIRECTORS

"THE U.S. AND THE HOLOCAUST,"

KEN BURNS AND SARAH BOTTSTEIN

AND AN AUTHOR WHO CONTRIBUTED TO

THE SERIES.

WELCOME ALL OF YOU.

>> GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> ALWAYS GOOD TO TALK TO YOU

AND SARAH AND REBECCA, GOOD TO

HAVE YOU HERE FIRST TIME.

ASK YOU THIS QUESTION, HOLOCAUST

IS A STORY WE NEED TO

CONTINUALLY TELL, ESPECIALLY

WITH THE PASSAGE OF TIME.

WE'RE BEYOND 75 YEARS NOW FOR

ALL OF THIS, AND IN SOME WAYS

THAT PASSAGE OF TIME REINFORCES

OUR NEED TO, AS IT'S BEEN SAID

BEFORE, TO NEVER FORGET.

>> YEAH.

AND THINK IN AN AGE, JACK, OF

DISINFORMATION AND

MISINFORMATION AND DELIBERATE

SKEWING OF THE TRUTH, IT BECOMES

MORE CRITICAL, PARTICULARLY AT

THIS JUNCTURE, 75 YEARS-PLUS

OUT, WE'LL SHORTLY BE WITHOUT

THE SURVIVORS TO TELL US ABOUT

THEIR EXPERIENCE, AND IT BECOMES

IMPORTANT FOR ALL OF US,

FILMMAKERS, HISTORIANS,

REPORTERS AND JOURNALISTS,

CITIZENS AND SURVIVORS OR

DESCENDANTS OF SURVIVORS TO SORT

OF DELVE INTO WHAT ACTUALLY

HAPPENED, HAVE AN HONEST AND

DEEP RECKONING ABOUT THE

QUESTIONS THAT ANIMATED OUR

PURSUIT OF THIS FILM.

SIMPLE ANSWER IS NO, WE DIDN'T

DO ENOUGH.

BUT IN ORDER TO ANSWER THAT

FAIRLY, WE HAD TO REALLY DIVE

DEEPLY INTO THE ANTECEDENTS IN

AMERICA THAT HELPED CREATE THE

CIRCUMSTANCES, FROM NATIVISM AND

ANTI-IMMIGRANT SENTIMENT TO

RACISM AND PARTICULARLY

ANTI-SEMITISM, EUGENICS AND WAY

IT CONTRIBUTED, JIM CROW LAWS

AND OUR OWN RESISTANCE TO

HELPING PEOPLE ESCAPE NAZI

GERMANY ONCE THE HORRORS WERE

VERY CLEAR AND IT WAS CLEAR

PRETTY EARLY ON WHAT WAS GOING

ON, EVEN AFTER THE WAR TO SEE

WITH GREAT SADNESS HOW LITTLE WE

WANTED TO HELP FURTHER ONCE THE

HORRIFIC FULL DIMENSIONS OF THE

HOLOCAUST WERE REVEALED.

WE STILL WERE INTERESTED MORE IN

TIGHTENING OUR -- SHELTERING

OURSELVES, PROTECTED BY OUR TWO

OCEANS, NOT DOING THE KINDS OF

THINGS WE OFTEN TELL OURSELVES

WE DO DO.

AS I SAID, IT'S IMPORTANT

RECKONING WE NEED TO BE HAVING.

IN MY WORK, SARAH BELIEVES THIS

AND LYNN DOES, WE WON'T WORK ON

MORE IMPORTANT FILM IN OUR

PROFESSIONAL LIVES.

>> I'VE SEEN YOU SAID THAT

BEFORE, NOT SAYING MOST

IMPORTANT --

>> NO.

>> -- SAYING MORE IMPORTANT.

>> THANK YOU.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK THAT'S SO?

>> WELL, I THINK THE STAKES ARE

SO HIGH FOR WHAT KIND OF A

DEMOCRACY WE WANT TO LIVE IN,

WHAT KIND OF A COUNTRY WE WANT

THIS TO BE.

TO LOOK BACK AS KEN WAS JUST

SAYING AT THE HISTORY OF THIS

UNDERLYING TENSION OF ARE WE A

COUNTRY THAT'S WELCOMING, A LAND

OF IMMIGRANTS AND REFUGEES, OR

DO WE WANT TO SHUT THEM OUT,

KEEP OUR BORDERS CLOSED.

AND WE LIVE IN THIS, AS KEN WAS

SAYING, HUGELY VAST COUNTRY BUT

PROTECTED BY OCEANS ON BOTH

SIDES, AND SINCE OUR FOUNDING

AND OUR INTRODUCTION HOPEFULLY

LAYS OUT FOR THE AUDIENCE, THIS

TENSION GOES WAY BACK INTO OUR

FOUNDING, AND IS PLAYING OUT

RIGHT NOW.

AND WE ALL LOOKED AT EACH OTHER

AND DECIDED TO MAKE THIS FILM IN

2015, A LONG TIME AGO IF YOU

THINK ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENED

DOMESTICALLY AND AROUND THE

WORLD AS WE SEE AUTHORITARIAN

REGIMES AND FASCIST SENTIMENTS

BUBBLE UP AGAIN AS THEY SEEM TO

DO THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

FEELS ENORMOUSLY URGENT AND

IMPORTANT.

>> AS YOU MENTIONED, THERE'S

ALWAYS THE IS THIS THE RIGHT

TIME TO TELL THIS STORY, AND

BACK IN 2015 WE PROBABLY DIDN'T

ANTICIPATE SOME OF THE THINGS

HAPPENING NOW TO MAKE THIS TRULY

THE RIGHT TIME TO TELL THIS

STORY.

REBECCA, YOU PROVIDE THIS

WONDERFUL AND INFORMATIVE VOICE

OF HISTORY HERE.

HELP SET THE STAGE A LITTLE BIT.

BECAUSE ONE OF THE THINGS THIS

FILM DOES IS MAKE US CRINGE

ABOUT OUR HISTORY, AND MAKE US

SAY REALLY, THAT'S WHO WE WERE,

THAT'S WHAT WE DID BACK THERE?

LET ME ASK YOU TO HELP AGAIN

FRAME THIS HERE.

GO BACK TO THE 1920s AND 1930s.

WE OFTEN HEAR THE NOTION OF

ISOLATIONISM IN TERMS OF THE

U.S., HOW WE LOOKED AT WHAT WAS

GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD,

ESPECIALLY IN EUROPE.

GIVE US A SENSE OF -- I DON'T

KNOW IF PREVAILING ATTITUDE IS

RIGHT WORD.

TELL ME IF THAT'S SO.

BUT WHAT WAS THE PREVAILING

ATTITUDE IN THE U.S. DURING THAT

TIME PERIOD IN TERMS OF WHAT'S

GOING ON AROUND THE WORLD?

>> RIGHT, YOU CATEGORIZED IT AS

PREVAILING ISOLATIONISM, AND

THAT'S CORRECT.

AFTER WORLD WAR I, MANY

AMERICANS WERE VERY CONTENT TO

STAY ON OUR SIDE OF THE OCEAN.

IT'S HARD FOR MANY PEOPLE TO

REMEMBER THAT THE UNITED STATES

WAS NOT A MILITARY SUPERPOWER

AND DELIBERATELY SO.

THROUGHOUT THE 1920s WE PARED

BACK OUR MILITARY BECAUSE WE

WERE NEVER GOING TO GO TO WAR

AGAIN, SO WAR SPENDING DIDN'T

MAKE SENSE TO AMERICANS.

EVEN IN THE 1920s AS FASCIST

REGIMES RISE IN ITALY, AS WAR IN

GERMANY -- AS WAR BREAKS OUT,

JAPAN INVADES CHINA, ITALY

INVADES ETHIOPIA, GERMANY IS

RISING, AMERICANS AGAIN AND

AGAIN, CONGRESS PASSES LAWS THAT

ARE NEUTRALITY ACTS, SAYING WE

ARE NOT GOING TO GO TO WAR OR DO

ANYTHING TO LEAD US TO WAR.

THAT ISOLATIONISM DOESN'T JUST

MANIFEST IN LACK OF MILITARY

SPENDING BUT IN NOT WANTING

PEOPLE TO COME HERE.

NOT WANTING MORE IMMIGRANTS.

NEW IMMIGRATION LAWS IN 1921 AND

1924 THAT SIGNIFICANTLY CUT OFF

PEOPLE THAT ARE COMING IN PART

BECAUSE WE CONSIDER THEM

RACIALLY, RELIGIOUSLY

UNDESIRABLE AND THEY'RE COMING

FROM PLACES WE DON'T WANT TO

HAVE TIES.

KLAN RISES AGAIN IN 1920s, AND

THEIR MOTTO IS 100% AMERICANS.

>> INTERESTING TO TALK ABOUT

THAT, SURPRISING THINGS THAT

PEOPLE MIGHT NOT KNOW, THERE

WERE 33 STATES, TALKED ABOUT IN

THE FILM, THAT HAD FORCED

STERILIZATION LAWS AND YOU SAY

HOW CAN THAT BE POSSIBLE,

ALLOWED?

U.S. SUPREME COURT PUT STAMP OF

APPROVAL, BUCK VS. BELL IN

VIRGINIA, IN REGARD TO FORCED

STERILIZATION, U.S. SUPREME

COURT SAID WE'RE OKAY WITH THAT.

>> AND CONTINUED AFTER THE WAR.

>> LAST OF THE LAWS WENT OFF THE

BOOKS JUST A FEW YEARS AGO,

JACK.

>> THAT'S FRIGHTENING.

>> THAT'S THE TERRIFYING THING.

WHAT HAPPENS IS WE TEND TO IN

OUR CONSIDERATION OF HISTORY,

VERY UNDERSTANDABLE WHY GIVEN

THE STRENGTHS OF THE UNITED

STATES, WE TEND TO SORT OF

SEPARATE OUT AND WE SEE THIS NOW

KIND OF BEING LEGISLATED, WE

CAN'T TELL UNCOMFORTABLE PARTS

OF OUR PAST, WE CAN ONLY

CELEBRATE, A SANITIZED, MADISON

AVENUE VERSION OF WHO WE'VE

BEEN, AND WHO WE'VE BEEN HAS HAD

EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENTS FOR

THE UNITED STATES, THE PEOPLE OF

THE UNITED STATES AND THE

HISTORY OF THE WORLD.

BUT THERE'S MORE TO THE STORY

AND WE'VE GOT A RESPONSIBILITY,

ESPECIALLY IF YOU THINK YOU'RE

EXCEPTIONAL, THE GREATEST

COUNTRY ON EARTH, YOU HAVE TO BE

HARDER ON YOURSELF THAN YOU ARE

ON ANYBODY ELSE AND HOLD

YOURSELF TO A HIGHER STANDARD,

AND THAT REQUIRES A CERTAIN KIND

OF DISCIPLINE AND DIFFICULT

LOOKING, LIFTING UP THE CORNERS

OF THE RUG TO SWEEP OUT SOME OF

THE DIRT.

IT DOESN'T IN ANY WAY DIMINISH

THE MAJESTY OF THE TAPESTRY, BUT

YOU HAVE TO TELL THAT STORY.

AND THE STORY OF THE U.S. AND

HOLOCAUST IS ONE IN WHICH A GOOD

DEAL OF THE DUST COMES OUT, AND

GOOD DEAL OF THE STUFF THAT MOST

PEOPLE WOULD PREFER NOT TO DEAL

WITH.

BUT IF YOU'RE GOING TO GET

BETTER, ONLY WAY YOU GET BETTER

IS WORKING ON THE THINGS YOU'RE

NOT SO GOOD AT.

IF THE THINGS YOU'RE GOOD AT ARE

GOOD, THAT'S IT.

ALL OF US ARE DEFINED AS

INDIVIDUALS BY THE DIFFICULTIES

WE'VE HAD, THAT'S WHAT MAKES US.

AND I THINK THAT'S TRUE OF

COUNTRIES AND IT'S IMPORTANT FOR

US TO LOOK VERY, VERY DEEPLY AT

WHAT HAPPENED AND IN UNBLINKING,

CLEAR-EYED THING.

WE'RE SO GRATEFUL FOR REBECCA TO

HELP US ALL ALONG THE LINES,

DON'T BE TOO CONSERVATIVE ABOUT

SOMETHING IN ANOTHER PLACE AND

GET THE SCHOLARSHIP RIGHT SO WE

KNOW.

THESE ARE COMPLEX EVENTS, SOME

OF THEM WITHOUT ANSWERS.

WE'VE MADE, SARAH AND I HAVE

WORKED ON FILMS ON THE SECOND

WORLD WAR, A LOT OF QUESTIONS WE

WERE TRYING TO ANSWER HERE WERE

BROUGHT UP, AND TRIED TO ANSWER

THEM IN SOME CASES, BOMBING THE

AIRLINES AT AUSCHWITZ, YOU DON'T

HAVE A CLEAR ANSWER.

>> EVEN TODAY.

>> THE PRESUMPTIONS WE TURNED

AWAY, THE U.S., THE ST. LOUIS,

THE SHIP WAS TURNED AWAY FROM

CUBA AND COULD NOT LAND BECAUSE

OF THE IMMIGRATION LAWS THAT

REBECCA SPOKE ABOUT IN THE

UNITED STATES, AND FORTUNATELY

TURNED BACK TO GERMANY,

PASSENGERS WERE DISTRIBUTED

AMONG WESTERN EUROPEAN

COUNTRIES, AND SOME OF THE

PEOPLE DID DIE BUT WE WANTED TO

ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT ARISE, AND

PRESUMPTIONS OF ANTI-SEMITISM ON

THE PART OF FDR AND GET TO ALSO

LEARN ABOUT THE HEROIC EFFORTS

OF JEWISH GROUPS AND CHRISTIAN

ORGANIZATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS.

MAN WHO TRAVELS TO FRANCE TO GET

OUT HISTORIC PEOPLE AND REGULAR

PEOPLE WHO DESERVE TO LIVE AND

NOT SUFFER FROM THE NAZI REGIME.

IT'S COMPELLING STORY, DARK

STORY, BUT AT TIMES PLACES YOU

CAN HOLD ON TO STORIES OF

HEROISM, AND THE SURVIVORS

THEMSELVES ARE THE MOST

MAGNIFICENT PEOPLE WE HAVE.

>> THAT'S WHAT I WAS GOING TO

ASK THEN, SARAH, THERE ARE

VOICES HERE OF SURVIVORS.

THE FILM OPENS WITH A VERY

POWERFUL STORY ABOUT IT WAS OUR

NEIGHBORS WHO CAME TO CONDEMN

US, PEOPLE WE LIVED WITH.

HOW AND WHY THAT HAPPENED.

SO YOU USE THE VOICES OF

SURVIVORS TO TELL THE STORY, BUT

HERE'S MY QUESTION TO YOU, YOU

NEED VIDEO TO TELL A STORY.

MUCH OF THIS VIDEO IS TERRIBLY

DIFFICULT TO WATCH, AND ANOTHER

INTERESTING COMPONENT, MUCH OF

THE VIDEO CAME FROM THE NAZIS

THEMSELVES.

SO HOW DO YOU DECIDE HOW FAR DO

WE GO IN TERMS OF THE GRAPHIC

VIOLENCE, AND BY -- ARE WE

EMBRACING THE VIDEOS THAT HAVE

BEEN SHOT BY THEM?

HOW DO YOU DEAL WITH THOSE AS A

FILMMAKER?

>> THANK YOU, THAT'S SUCH AN

IMPORTANT AND CENTRAL QUESTION

WE WRESTLE WITH ENTIRE TIME

WE'RE MAKING A FILM LIKE THIS.

I THINK IF ALL OF OUR VIEWERS

COULD SIT IN OUR EDITING ROOM

AND HEAR THE CONVERSATIONS,

LOOKING AT MATERIAL, THINKING

THROUGH AS YOU'RE SAYING WHERE

WAS IT, WHO SHOT IT, WHAT DO WE

NEED TO GET ACROSS, THIS VERY

FINE LINE BETWEEN SHOWING THE

HORROR AND FRIGHTENING REALITY

OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING ON THE

GROUND, RESPECTING THE PEOPLE

WHO DIED, THEIR FAMILIES AND

MEMORIES, AND NEVER WANTING TO

DO ANYTHING THAT IS SALACIOUS,

THAT ISN'T RESPECTFUL TO THE

PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING KILLED, AND

I THINK THE DIGNITY AND THE

ELEGANCE AND BRAVERY THAT YOU

SEE IN THE MATERIAL OF THE

PEOPLE WHO ARE BEING PERSECUTED

IS OVERWHELMING IN THE SAME WAYS

THAT YOU CAN SEE MUCH LIKE

LYNCHING PHOTOGRAPHS FROM OUR

HISTORY, THE ONLOOKERS WITH

THEIR CAMERAS, THEIR CHILDREN,

CASUALLY CHEERING THEMSELVES AS

THESE HORRIFIC THINGS ARE

HAPPENING.

SO I THINK WE DO TAKE IT VERY,

VERY SERIOUSLY.

WE WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH OUR

EDITORS, RESEARCHERS, AND

ADVISERS, WITH AS KEN LIKES TO

SAY, WARM BODIES IN THE ROOM, TO

MAKE SURE WE'RE DOING BOTH THOSE

THINGS, COMMUNICATING, SHOWING,

BEING TRUE TO THE HISTORY, AND

BEING RESPECTFUL TO THE PEOPLE

WHO DIED, AND ALSO HOPEFULLY

DESCRIBING FOR OUR VIEWERS HOW

TO THINK ABOUT SOME OF THOSE

IMAGERY.

AND THANKS TO EXTRAORDINARY

INTERVIEW WITH TIMOTHY

SCHNEIDER, HE HELPS PUT SOME OF

THAT IN CONTEXT, DARKER MOMENTS

OF THE FILM.

>> IT'S NOT TO PRIVILEGE THE

PERPETRATORS, BUT THAT WOULD

DENY YOU ACCESS TO THE PROOF OF

A GOOD DEAL OF WHAT TOOK PLACE.

THEREFORE IT REQUIRES THE

SUBTLEST AND MOST DIFFICULT AND

HEART WRENCHING CALIBRATION TO

MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T SPILL OVER

IN GRATUITOUS PORNOGRAPHY IF YOU

WILL OF THE HOLOCAUST, AND AT

THE SAME TIME IS NOT SO

FRIGHTENED OF THE HORRORS IT

DOES NOT SHOW IT.

THIS IS A CONSTANT, SHOT BY

SHOT, FOOTAGE BY FOOTAGE

CALIBRATION.

I THINK THIS FILM IS MUCH MORE

RESTRAINED THAT SOME OF THE

FOOTAGE WE USED IN WORLD WAR II

FILM, THAT DEALT NOT

SIGNIFICANTLY BUT IN A MAJOR

SCENE ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST

BECAUSE WE WANT TO BE

HYPERSENSITIVE TO ALL THE

CONCERNS.

WORST THING THAT COULD HAPPEN,

BACK TO YOUR FIRST QUESTION,

JACK, WE FORGET THIS AND GIVE

AMMUNITION TO THOSE PEOPLE WHO

BELIEVE IT DIDN'T HAPPEN OR

CONSTRUE THE RISE OF NEOFASCISM

AS A POSITIVE EVENT IN COURSE OF

WORLD HISTORY.

THIS IS THE TERRIFYING THING.

WHEN WE BEGAN THIS IN 2015, AS

WE SEE IN EVERY FILM WE MADE,

THERE ARE ECHOS TO THE PRESENT.

WE PUT OUR BLINDERS ON, IT'S

HARD TO TELL A GOOD STORY, SO

WE'RE FOCUSED ON THAT.

WHAT WAS ANXIETY PRODUCING FOR

ME AND I'M SURE FOR SARAH, TOO,

AS WE FINISHED THE FILM, EVERY

SENTENCE WAS ECHOING WITH THE

PRESENT.

AND WE DIDN'T THINK THAT WAS

GOING TO HAPPEN.

YET WE COULDN'T DO ANYTHING TO

PUT OUR THUMB ON THAT SCALE,

JUST HAD TO SAY THIS STUFF HAS

HAPPENED BEFORE, HAPPENED

DURING, AND HERE'S OUR FILM, AND

IT'S HAPPENING NOW, AS SARAH WAS

SAYING AT THE BEGINNING, RISE OF

FASCISM AND WAYS IN WHICH PEOPLE

ARE EXCUSING ITS AUTHORITARIAN

EXCESSES.

AND THAT'S JUST THE PATH THAT

LEADS YOU TO DISASTER.

DEMOCRACY IS A MESS, IT'S

COMPLICATED, IT'S HORRIBLE, BUT

IF YOU LOOK BACK AT THE 20th

CENTURY, DEMOCRACIES KILLED A

FRACTION OF ITS OWN CITIZENS

COMPARED TO AUTHORITARIAN

GOVERNMENTS THAT IN CHINA,

SOVIET UNION AND OBVIOUSLY THE

NAZIS, THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE KILLED

MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF THEIR

CITIZENS.

>> REBECCA, WE TALKED ABOUT

THEMES WOVEN THROUGHOUT THIS,

ONE IS IMPORTANT THAT YOU CAN IT

SHED LIGHT ON IT.

MOST PEOPLE EMBRACE A PREVAILING

NARRATIVE OR MYTH THERE WERE

ONE -- ONE OF TWO CIRCUMSTANCES,

WE WERE COMPLETELY IGNORANT OF

WHAT WAS HAPPENING OVER THERE OR

WE WERE SO CALLOUS WE CHOSE TO

IGNORE IT.

GIVE US THE REALITY OF THOSE

COMPETING NARRATIVES.

>> ALWAYS LOVED THOSE ARE THE

COMPETING NARRATIVES BECAUSE YOU

DESCRIBED THEM PERFECTLY.

IT IMPLIES THAT AMERICANS ARE

SPEAKING WITH ONE VOICE AND YOU

SEE THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY

WE NEVER SPEAK WITH ONE VOICE,

WE DEBATE ABOUT EVERYTHING ALL

THE TIME AND DEBATED ABOUT THE

RISE OF NAZIISM AND ROLE OF

RESPONSIBILITY IN THE WORLD AND

WHAT WE OWE EACH OTHER, ALL OF

THAT WAS DEBATED IN 1930s AND

1940s, THROUGHOUT THIS ENTIRE

PERIOD.

GOING BACK TO WHAT KEN WAS

SAYING, IT'S SO IMPORTANT TO

TALK ABOUT THESE DEBATES AND HOW

COMPLICATED THAT PERIOD WAS.

BECAUSE IT'S WAY TOO EASY FOR US

TO LOOK BACK, IT WAS SO SIMPLE

BACK THEN TO KNOW WHAT TO DO,

REACTING WITH HINDSIGHT, WE

ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE DONE ALL

OF THESE THINGS, IT WAS SO

CLEAR, I DON'T KNOW WHY PEOPLE

DIDN'T, IT'S TOO DIFFICULT NOW,

I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO NOW.

NO, IT WAS COMPLICATED BACK

THEN, PEOPLE DEBATING AND MAKING

DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES JUST AS

WE'RE DOING NOW, AND ASKING SOME

OF THE SAME BIG QUESTIONS.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO GET AT THE

NUANCE OF THE PERIOD,

COMPLICATIONS OF THE PERIOD.

AND VERY FERVENT DEBATES THAT

AMERICANS WERE HAVING OVER WHAT

KIND OF COUNTRY WE WERE GOING TO

BE.

>> WHEN YOU WATCH ALL OF YOUR

FILMS, KEN AND SARAH, WHAT YOU

HOPE TO GET FROM ANY GOOD FILM,

ANY DOCUMENTARY, IS A REACTION

BY VIEWERS THAT SAYS I DIDN'T

KNOW.

>> RIGHT.

>> I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT WAS SO.

AND IN WATCHING IT MYSELF, AND,

YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY WHO IS --

I'LL SAY AMATEUR HISTORIAN, BUT

TAUGHT COURSE AT YALE FOR 15

YEARS ABOUT FAMOUS TRIALS IN THE

PAST AND WHAT THEY'VE TAUGHT US,

YET I STILL FOUND MYSELF

WATCHING THIS, AND DELIGHTED

THAT I DID, CLEARLY LEARNING

SOMETHING, SAYING I DIDN'T KNOW

THAT, ABOUT A LOT OF THINGS.

DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THE REFERENCE

TO ANNE FRANK AND HER FAMILY.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT AND WHAT WE

LEARN I SUSPECT MOST PEOPLE

DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

>> I LOVE THIS QUESTION, GETTING

IT MORE AND MORE AS PEOPLE SEE

PARTS OF THE FILM.

WHEN WE STARTED WORKING ON THE

FILM, IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT ANNE

FRANK'S FAMILY AND OTTO FRANK

HAD TRIED DESPERATELY TO COME TO

THE UNITED STATES.

ANNE FRANK FOR MOST YOUNG PEOPLE

IN THE WORLD IS ENTRY TO THIS

STORY OF SECOND WORLD WAR AND

PERSECUTION OF THE JEWS.

I DON'T THINK AMERICANS ARE EVER

TAUGHT THAT THIS FAMILY TRIED TO

COME HERE.

DOESN'T FEEL LIKE AMERICAN STORY

TO KID IN EIGHTH GRADE READING

THAT DIARY.

BUT IF HIS VISA APPLICATION HAD

GOTTEN HERE, HE HAD VERY GOOD

CONTACTS HERE AND WAS WELL

CONNECTED IN WAYS THAT OUR

GOVERNMENT WANTED JEWS TO BE TO

COME HERE.

SO IT WAS INTERESTING AND

UNEXPECTED FOR US AS FILMMAKERS

TO SAY ANNE FRANK HAS AN

AMERICAN CONNECTION, WE MIGHT

EVEN START THE FILM WITH HER AND

WE LEARN EVEN MORE AND I WON'T

RUIN IT, BUT WE TELL HER STORY

IN VERY IS PERSONAL WAY, FINDING

PEOPLE WHO KNEW HER AND BRINGING

HER TO LIFE IN HOPEFULLY WAYS

THAT AMERICANS HAVEN'T SEEN

BEFORE.

>> COME BACK TO SOMETHING YOU

MENTIONED BEFORE, TALKING IN THE

BEGINNING ABOUT THE ATTITUDES OF

THE U.S. AT THE TIME,

ISOLATIONISM, ANTI-IMMIGRATION,

ANTI-SEMITISM, ALL PERCOLATING

THROUGHOUT THE U.S. AT THE TIME.

THE FILM DEALS WITH THAT,

UNVARNISHED LOOK.

AND ALSO LOOKED AT SOME OF THE

FORCES COMPELLING ALL OF THAT,

DECISIONS THAT TOOK PLACE IN

TERMS OF NOT BRINGING IN -- EVEN

THOUGH THE U.S. BROUGHT IN MORE

THAN ANY OTHER SOVEREIGN NATION,

AS YOU SAID, MUCH MORE COULD

HAVE BEEN DONE.

PRESIDENT ROOSEVELT AND THE

STATE DEPARTMENT, WHAT ROLES DID

THEY PLAY IN THIS?

>> YOU'RE RIGHT TO SAY, WE DID

MORE THAN ANY OTHER SOVEREIGN

NATION BUT IF WE DID 20 TIMES

MORE, DOESN'T WOULDN'T BE

ENOUGH, NOT PASSING JOB.

WE DIDN'T HAVE AUTHORITARIAN

GOVERNMENT.

THERE WERE LAWS THAT HAMSTRUNG

THE PRESIDENT, WHATEVER HIS

IMPULSES, HE'S A POLITICAL

ANIMAL, NOT GOING TO DO

SOMETHING TO GET HIM IN TROUBLE,

HE'S GOT A STATE DEPARTMENT

AMONG THE MEMBERS OF WHICH ARE

VIRULENT ANTI-SEMITES AT EVERY

TIME TRYING TO STOP PROGRESS OF

JEWS BEING BROUGHT TO THE U.S.

OR HELPING THE HOLOCAUST BE

UNDERSTOOD BY THE AMERICAN

PEOPLE.

AND JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WILL

EVENTUALLY DO MORE THAN ANY

OTHER ORGANIZATION TO HELP GET

REFUGEES OUT AND SAVE LIVES

PERIOD.

IT'S A REALLY FRAUGHT AND

COMPLICATED STORY AND NOBODY

COMES OUT LOOKING 100% GREAT

EXCEPT INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE

DEDICATING THEIR LIVES TO SAVING

PEOPLE AND ORGANIZATIONS LIKE

HEBREW AID SOCIETY, PEOPLE

WORKING AND STRUGGLING.

BUT COMES BACK TO TENSIONS THAT

REBECCA WAS TALKING ABOUT WITHIN

THE AMERICAN POLITY.

WE ARE NOT ONE VOICE AND NEVER

HAVE BEEN SINCE DECIDED THESE

BRITISH COLONIES COULD COME

TOGETHER TO TODAY.

TO TODAY.

WHEN FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT WAS

RENOMINATED FOR SECOND TERM AT

DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION, GAVE THE

SPEECH AT PHILADELPHIA, SAID

BETTER THE OCCASIONAL FLAWS OF

GOVERNMENT DEDICATED TO CHARITY,

THAN CONSISTENT OMISSIONS OF

GOVERNMENT FROZEN IN THE ICE OF

ITS OWN INDIFFERENCE.

IF WE HAVE A THUMB ON THE SCALE,

WE LIKE THE FORMER, NOT THE

LATTER.

>> AFTER ALL THE YEARS, WE COULD

TALK FOREVER ON THIS, AS ALWAYS

WITH OUR CONVERSATIONS.

IT'S A FABULOUS FILM, ECHOS

TODAY, YOU USED TERM, I THINK

YOU TOOK FROM MARK TWAIN,

HISTORY DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF

BUT IT RHYMES, WE SEE IT

CONTINUING HERE.

>> I'M SORRY TO SAY.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, MARVELOUS

WORK.

PLEASURE TO TALK WITH ALL OF

YOU.

BE WELL NOW.

>>> "METROFOCUS" IS MADE

POSSIBLE BY --

SUE AND EDGAR WACHENHEIM III,

THE PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN

GANZ COONEY FUND.

BERNARD AND DENISE SCHWARTZ,

BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, THE

AMBROSE MONELL FOUNDATION, AND