>>> AS WE MENTIONED EARLIER, TENSION AND DIVISION MOUNT IN MOST CORNERS OF THE WORLD OVER THIS.

UNIVERSITY CAMPUSES IN THE U.S. HAVE BECOME ONE OF THE FOCAL POINTS FROM IVY LEAGUES TO COLLEGES.

FIVE SEPARATE INCIDENCES AT STANFORD UNIVERSITY ARE UNDER INVESTIGATION AS POTENTIAL HATE CRIMES.

UP NEXT, DARTMOUTH CHAIR OF STUDIES, SUSANNAH HESCHEL AND TAREK EL-ARISS WANTED TO DEVELOP A FORUM FOR STUDENTS TO DISCUSS.

TALKING TO BOTH PROFESSORS ABOUT THAT RESPONSE AND WHAT IT ACHIEVED.

>> THANKS, CHRISTIANE.

PROFESSOR EL-ARISS AND PROFESSOR HESCHEL, THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOINING US TODAY.

AS WE ARE SPEAKING WE ARE ABOUT A MONTH AFTER THESE TERRIBLE EVENTS THAT HAVE CONSUMED SO MUCH OF OUR ATTENTION AND TERRIBLE ATTACK BY HAMAS IN SOUTHERN ISRAEL.

IF I COULD ASK YOU BRIEFLY TO TAKE ME BACK TO THAT MOMENT, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS, WHAT DO YOU INCOME HAPPENED AND WHAT WENT THROUGH YOUR MIND?

>> I WAS FOLLOWING AS THE EVENTS UNFOLD ON THE ARABIC CHANNELS AND I — YOU KNOW, I’M ORIGINALLY FROM LEBANON BUT I ALSO LIVED IN NEW YORK ON 9/11.

IT WAS ONE OF THOSE MOMENTS I FELT THIS IS REALLY HORRIBLE HORRIBLE EVENT.

I IMMEDIATELY GOT ON THE PHONE WITH, YOU KNOW, PROFESSOR HESCHEL, AND WE SAID, THIS IS REALLY — THIS IS NOT JUST ANY OTHER ATTACK OR, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER EPISODE THAT WE SEE A LOT OF, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO OPEN A PORTAL INTO A FORM OF VIOLENCE THAT WE ARE NOT — WE HAVEN’T SEEN LIKE THIS.

IMMEDIATELY WE TALKED AND SAID, OKAY, WE NEED TO CREATE A FORUM FOR THIS.

WE NEED TO CREATE A SPACE WHERE PEOPLE CAN COME AND TALK ABOUT THIS AND ENGAGE WITH THIS AND THINK ABOUT THIS.

THIS IS GOING TO CAPTURE PEOPLE’S MINDS.

THIS IS GOING TO REALLY MAKE PEOPLE WANT TO — IT WILL CONSUME PEOPLE NOT ONLY IN THE MIDDLE EAST BUT ALSO OBVIOUSLY IN THE U.S. AS WELL.

WHENEVER THEY ARE IDENTIFYING WITH THAT PART OF THE WORLD IN SOME WAY.

>> IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH FOR BOTH OF YOU, YOUR IMMEDIATE INSTINCT IS WE HAVE TO CREATE A FORUM TO TALK ABOUT THIS.

TALK TO ME ABOUT THAT.

LOOK, IT HAS TO BE SAID, THAT WAS NOT EVERY SCHOLAR’S FIRST INSTINCT.

SOME SCHOLARS WERE ORGANIZING RALLIES.

YOU KNOW, SAY MORE IF YOU WOULD ABOUT THE CONVERSATION YOU AND PROFESSOR EL-ARISS HAD.

>> I WAS EXTREMELY UPSET, AS YOU CAN IMAGINE.

BUT I HAVE A PROFESSIONAL OBLIGATION AS A SCHOLAR TO MY UNIVERSITY AND TO MY WORK.

SO WE SPOKE ON THE PHONE.

WE DECIDED WE WOULD HAVE TWO ACADEMIC FORUMS AT THE DARTMOUTH COLLEGE CAMPUS AND SET THOSE UP.

I WAS ONE OF THEM AND THE OTHERS WERE THREE OTHER SCHOLARS WHO ARE TEACHING IN MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES.

I HAVE TO SAY THE JEWISH STUDIES AND MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES HAVE HAD A LONG AND VERY FRUITFUL COLLABORATION ON CAMPUS.

I AM CO-TEACHING A COURSE ON MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES THIS TERM ON THE 1967 ARAB-ISRAELI WAR.

AND CO-TAUGHT BY BERNARD AND BRASHEAR FROM GOVERNMENT.

WE OFFERED THIS AS A PANEL TO DEMONSTRATE TO THE COLLEGE STUDENTS AND FACULTY HOW WE COME TOGETHER IN THIS MOMENT, WE MODEL FOR THEM WHAT IT IS TO BE A SCHOLAR AND ACADEMIC AND ACADEMIC INSTITUTION TO DISCUSS THE ISSUES THOUGHTFULLY, NOT TO LOOK FOR CONDEMNATIONS OR TO SPEAK ABOUT EMOTIONS BUT TO THINK IN CONTEXT WHAT CAN WE AS SCHOLARS CONTRIBUTE TO THE ANALYSIS OF THIS MOMENT AND ALSO DEMONSTRATE HOW WE SHOULD THINK IN THIS MOMENT.

HOW SHOULD WE BE RESPONDING AS ACADEMICS?

THAT, WE FELT, ALSO, WHAT WE SUCCEEDED DOING AT DARTMOUTH WAS TO KEEP ALL SIDES TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY OF ACADEMICS, WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT WE DO IN OUR CLASSROOM.

>> ONE OF THE REASONS WE CALLED YOU IS WE SAW AN ARTICLE IN THE FORWARD SAYING MANY UNIVERSITIES FULLABILITY REACTIONS TO THE HAMAS ATTACK AND HERE IS HOW DARTMOUTH GOT IT RIGHT.

DID THE ADMINISTRATION PLAY ANY ROLE?

WE HAVE SEEN AT OTHER UNIVERSITIES, UNIVERSITY PRESIDENTS HAVE BEEN HEAVILY CRITICIZED FOR NOT SAYING ENOUGH OR NOT SOON ENOUGH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE HAVE A NEW PRESIDENT AT DARTMOUTH, PRESIDENT SE IAN BEILOCK, WHO SAID WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING AND ASKED PRESIDENT SMITH TO CALL AND SHE DID.

WE ALREADY MADE PLANS.

THE LEADERSHIP AT DARTMOUTH HAS BEEN VERY STRONG AND VERY MUCH IN SUPPORT OF WHAT WE ARE DOING AS FACULTY.

THAT HAS MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE AS WELL.

>> TELL ME ABOUT THAT FIRST FORUM.

WHAT WAS IT LIKE?

>> WE RECOGNIZE STUDENTS, FACULTY, STAFF, THE COMMUNITY, WERE ALL VERY UPSET, FRIGHTENED, WORRIED AND ANGRY.

DARTMOUTH DOES OFFER 24 HOURS A DAY MENTAL HEALTH COUNSELING FOR STUDENTS, FOR EXAMPLE.

WE EMPHASIZE THAT.

WE ALSO HAVE CHAPLAINS TO SPEAK TO STUDENTS AND TO FACULTY.

THAT’S ALSO IMPORTANT.

OUR JOB AT THESE FORUMS WAS TO COME TOGETHER AS ACADEMICS TO DEMONSTRATE WHAT WE DO IN THESE CLASSROOMS, WHEN THE PROFESSOR EL-ARISS AND I TEACH A COURSE WE HAVE STUDENTS JEWISH, CHRISTIAN, MUSLIMS, FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD, PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, WE COME TOGETHER IN THE CLASSROOM TO UNDERSTAND AND WORK TOGETHER AND THINK THROUGH THE PROBLEMS.

THE CLASS ROOMS BECOME A PLACE STUDENTS WORK TOGETHER AND FORM FRIENDSHIPS AND THINK TOGETHER.

WE DON’T POLARIZE.

THAT’S WHAT WE WANTED TO ACHIEVE WITH THESE FORUMS AND THAT ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN.

OF COURSE THERE WERE STUDENTS VERY UPSET EMOTIONALLY.

I WAS, TOO, BUT STILL AM VERY UPSET.

THAT’S NOT WHAT AS A PROFESSIONAL I BRING TO MY CLASSROOM.

A CLASSROOM IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF SPACE.

IT’S NOT A SPACE TO RANT AND RAVE AND DO DEMAGOGUERY, A CLASSROOM IS A PLACE FOR SCHOLARSHIP.

>> WHEN YOU DID GET BACK TO CAMPUS AND STARTED ANTICIPATING THESE CONVERSATIONS, WHAT ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT YOU HEARD, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS?

>> THE STUDENTS STARTED COMING TO MY OFFICE.

I OPENED MY OFFICE TO THEM TO HEAR WHAT THEY’RE HEARING AND THINKING AND TO SUPPORT THEM, AND TO BE THERE WITH THEM.

AS PROFESSOR HESCHEL MENTIONED WE HAVE STUDENTS FROM THE DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS AND DIFFERENT POLITICAL VIEWS AND POSITIONS IN OUR CLASSES.

THEY COME TO OUR CLASSES BECAUSE THEY FEEL LIKE WE ARE ABLE TO MAINTAIN A CONVERSATION WHERE THEIR VIEWS ARE RESPECTED AND ALSO WE’RE NOT IMPOSING ANY OF OUR VIEWS ON THEM.

WE TRY TO ENCOURAGE THEM TO FORM THEIR OWN PERSPECTIVE WHEN THEY LOOK HOW JEWS AND ARABS WORKED TOGETHER THROUGHOUT THE 19TH CENTURY AND EAST AND OTHER PART OF THE WORLD, HOW THEY DEFENDED EACH OTHER’S CAUSES, A AM KO MON STRUGGLE AS WELL.

SOMETIMES COLONIALISM.

AND WE TRY TO REPRESENT A KIND OF HISTORY OF LIVING TOGETHER.

STUDENTS COME TO THIS, JEWISH STUDENTS, PALESTINIAN STUDENTS, THEY KNOW EACH OTHER AND COME WITH US ON STUDY ABROAD.

THERE IS A CONNECTION BETWEEN THEM.

SO WHEN THESE THINGS 19 THEY ARE STILL TALKING.

I WOULD ASK THE STUDENTS, HOW IS SO-AND-SO.

I’M ASKING A JEWISH STUDENT HOW A PALESTINIAN STUDENT IS DOING AND VICE-VERSA.

I THINK IT’S VERY IMPORTANT WE ENGAGE IN CONNECTION AND EXPLAIN THE COMPLEXION OF HISTORIES AND COMPLEX BUT AT THE SAME TIME MAINTAIN A COMMUNITY OF CARE.

WE ARE HERE TO SUPPORT THEM AND LISTEN TO THEM.

WE WANT THEM TO SUPPORT EACH OTHER AS WELL.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS YOU HEAR FROM STUDENTS MUSLIM OR PALESTINIAN OR ARAB OR ALL THREE THEY FEEL THEY HAVE BEEN SILENCED.

THEY FEEL THEY CAN’T EXPRESS THEIR LEGITIMATE FEAR, ANGER, CONCERN, I MEAN ON THE ONE HAND YOU HAVE JEWISH STUDENTS DEEPLY AFRAID AND LEGITIMATELY SO AND YOU ALSO HAVE ARAB AND PALESTINIAN AND MUSLIM STUDENTS DEEPLY AFRAID FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

I CAN IMAGINE THEY MIGHT WANT YOU TO BE A SPOKESMAN FOR THEM.

AND I WANT YOUR TAKE FOR THEM.

>> I CREATE FORUMS FOR THEM AND ALSO GO TO THE STUDENTS IN THEIR OWN COMFORTABLE SAFE SPACES SO PEOPLE CAN COME AND TALK TO THEM AND ASK THEM AND SEE NOT HONESTLY HOW THEY THINK, BUT ALSO HOW THEY FEEL.

WE’RE VERY MUCH DOING THIS.

I THINK ALSO THERE IS A FRUSTRATION, IT’S UNDERSTANDABLE THERE IS FRUSTRATION THE POLITICAL RESOLUTION OF THIS CONFLICT HAS NOT HAPPENED.

THE EMPHASIS HAS BEEN ON SECURITY MEASURES AND RATHER THAN REAL POLITICAL SOLUTION.

I THINK IT’S IMPORTANT FOR US AS ACADEMICS, WE UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION THE POLITICAL SOLUTION THROUGH TALKS HORKLY HAS CRUMBLED.

WHAT ELSE DO WE HAVE, I MEAN, FOR US, OTHER THAN CONVERSATION OTHER NAN ENGAGEMENT, ENGAGING THE OTHER AND TRYING TO SHOW THE OTHER SIDE YOUR PERSPECTIVE, AND DO IT IN A WAY THAT BRINGS THEM IN RATHER THAN ALIENATE THEM AT THE OUTSIDE.

>> HAS ANYBODY CRITICIZED YOU FOR NOT BEING ANGRY ENOUGH, PROFESSOR EL-ARISS, ANYBODY CRITICIZED YOU FOR NOT BEING OUTRAGED ENOUGH?

>> I DID 15 YEARS IN A CIVIL WAR SITUATION UNDER ALL KINDS OF BOMBS.

IT TOOK ME A LONG TIME TO DO THAT AND DEAL WITH THE ANGER, BUT ALSO TO TRANSFORM THE ANGER INTO SOMETHING MORE CONSTRUCTIVE.

BUT I ALSO SEE THE FRUSTRATION IN THE STUDENTS WHO FEEL THEY WANT TO DO SOMETHING AND THEY CAN’T DO ANYTHING.

IT IS A CULTURE OUT THERE EXPECTING STUDENTS AT THE UNIVERSITY, A FRESHMAN AND SO ON, TO SOMEHOW HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE HUMAN RIGHTS SITUATION OR INTERVENE IN A POLITICAL SITUATION.

THAT’S NOT FAIR.

THAT’S A HUGE BURDEN ON THAT STUDENT AND THAT’S CRUSHING IN SOME WAY.

PART OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO, I WANT TO ON THE ONE HAND ALLEVIATE THAT BURDEN TO ACT.

AND SAY, I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION.

ALSO, I NEED TO CALM THEM DOWN AND MAKE THEM LISTEN AND TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THEM A BIGGER LARGER PICTURE.

PROSECUTING THEM ALSO TO TALK ABOUT PEOPLE WHO FEEL THAT BURDEN FROM THE OTHER SIDE OR OTHER PERSPECTIVE.

IF WE CUT THOSE TIES AND CREATE THOSE WALLS THAT SEPARATES AND SAY, OKAY, I WON’T TALK TO THE OTHER CAMP BECAUSE THIS IS WHAT I BELIEVE AND IT IS ABSOLUTE, THEN WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

WOULD WE STILL HAVE EDUCATION THE WAY WE UNDERSTAND IT?

THIS IS HOW I’M TRAINED AS A HUMANIST, SOMEONE INVESTED TALKING TO THE OTHER PERSON.

I WON’T SAY, I WON’T TALK, THIS IS MY VIEW AND I WILL DO ANYTHING TO ACHIEVE IT.

THIS IS NOT MY MISSION AS AN EDUCATOR.

>> PROFESSOR HESCHEL, I WANT TO ASK YOU THE SAME THING, HAS ANYONE SAID THIS TO YOU, THAT YOU SHOULD BE ON THIS SIDE OR YOU’RE NOT OUTRAGED ENOUGH?

ANYONE SAID THAT TO YOU?

>> I’M SURE PEOPLE THINK IT.

I KNOW I HAVE COLLEAGUES AT OTHER INSTITUTIONS WHO SAID A JEWISH STUDIES PROFESSOR SHOULD REPRESENT THE JEWISH STUDIES AND THE JEWISH FEDERATION ON CAMPUS.

THAT’S NOT THE ROLE OF AN ACADEMIC.

I WANT MY CLASSROOM TO WHERE STUDENTS ASK ME.

PEOPLE ASK ME, HOW MANY OF YOUR STUDENTS ARE JEWISH?

>> I DON’T KNOW.

I DON’T KNOW WHO IS JEWISH?

WHY SHOULD I KNOW THAT.

STUDENTS IN ALL PARTS OF THE WORLD, CHINA, PAKISTAN, VIETNAM.

THEY’RE INTERESTED AND I WANT THEM TO COME AND FEEL PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE AND EQUALLY EVERY OTHER STUDENT IN THE CLASSROOM.

>> SEVERAL THINGS CAME TO PLAY HERE.

YOU HAD LONG STANDING PRIOR RELATIONSHIPS OF MUTUAL RESPECT.

YOU HAD A HISTORY OF NOT JUST WORKING TOGETHER BUT BEING VERY CLEAR ABOUT YOUR ROLE IN A TIME OF CRISIS AND YOU HAVE DEEP FRIENDSHIPS AMONG YOURSELF.

I’M WONDERING WHY IS THIS SO HARD?

IT SEEMS A NUMBER AT PROMINENT UNIVERSITIES THINGS HAVE SPUN OUT OF CONTROL.

YOU HAVE KIDS SENDING HATE MESSAGES AND TEARING DOWN OTHER PEOPLE’S POSTERS AND AMPLIFYING PEOPLE TAKING HOSTAGE.

WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS SO HARD?

DO YOU HAVE A THEORY ABOUT THAT?

>> THIS IS SOMETHING WE ARE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT FOR A LONG TIME TO COME.

WHAT BROUGHT US TO THIS POINT.

MANY FACTOR, INSTITUTIONAL LEADERSHIP IS ONE AND YOU CAN’T JUST PLUNGE RIGHT IN.

WHY IS IT SO MANY UNIVERSITIES ARE AT WAR WITH EACH OTHER AND DON’T TALK TO EACH OTHER.

WE HAVE CROSS LISTED COACHES AND WE’VE BEEN DOING THIS A LONG TIME.

SOMETIMES IT MAY BE UNCOMFORTABLE AND WE MAY HEAR THINGS FROM GUEST SPEAKERS WE LIKE PUT WE DON’T BRING IN SPEAKERS WITH A MOUTHPIECE, WE WANT THEM TO CHALLENGE US.

I WILL GIVE A STUDENTS TO READ AND SAY, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY IN RESPONSE TO THIS?

HOW WOULD YOU FORM IT?

WHAT’S WRONG WITH THIS ARTICLE, AND IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, SAY SOMETHING BUT IN AN ECONOMIC INTELLIGENT WAY WITH WARRANTS FOR THE PROOF.

THERE ARE OTHER ELEMENTS AS WELL.

A STUDENT SAID IS ISRAEL AN APARTHEID STATE.

FIRST, IT DOESN’T REALLY FIT THE DEFINITION.

WE’RE NOT HERE TO JUDGE, WE’RE HERE TO UNDERSTAND.

I’M NOT A JUDGE IN A COURTROOM, A JURY.

I’M AN ACADEMIC AND WANT TO ANALYZE AND THINK.

WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF DEFINING SOMETHING AS APARTHEID, OR INCIDENT, WHICH MAY BE TERRIBLE.

THE BOMBING IN FWZ IS A TERRIBLE THING.

WHY DO I HAVE TO CALL IT GENOCIDE?

WHEN HAMAS ATTACKED ISRAELI CIVILIANS, 1400 PEOPLE MURDERED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS.

I WANT TO ANALYZE AND THINK IT THROUGH, HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT?

I DON’T WANT TO SIMPLY FIT IT INTO A PRIOR NARRATIVE, WHETHER COLONIAL NARRATIVE OR SOMETHING ELSE.

THAT’S WHERE I THINK WE’RE STUCK MANY OF US IN OUR ACADEMIC WORK WITH PREDETERMINED NARRATIVES WHAT THE PHILOSOPHER CALLED WAS COVERING LAWS.

WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT THAT IN MORE EXPANSIVE TERMS AND ANALYZE IT CREATIVELY AND WHAT WE ARE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH, NOT TO LABEL OR JUDGE.

AS ACADEMICS WE HAVE A COMMITMENT TO HUMANITY, TO HUMAN LIVES.

>> PROFESSOR, I WANT TO ASK YOU THIS.

SOME OF THESE ARE KIDS.

SOME OF THE REASON THEY GO TO COLLEGE IS TO FIGURE OUT WHO THEY ARE.

OVERDOING IT, DOING TOO MUCH, SAYING TOO MUCH, SAYING THE WRONG THING, THAT’S PART OF GROWING UP, ON THE OTHER HAND.

RIGHT?

>> THE STUDENTS WHO SAID, AFTER I SAID, I SAID IT IN SUCH A RESPECTFUL WAY, SAID, WHAT DO YOU THINK IF I WOULD SAY ISRAEL IS — THANK YOU FOR ANSWERING MY QUESTION.

THIS IS WHAT I RETAINED FROM THAT ALSO.

IT IS ALSO THE WAY, IT IS NOT WHAT YOU SAY, THE WAY YOU SAY IT.

IT IS ALSO TO HAVE AN ENVIRONMENT THAT ALLOWS YOU TO SAY WHAT YOU WANT TO SAY WITHOUT COMPLETELY CANCELING THE OTHER.

DISAGREEMENT DOESN’T MEAN AND ERASURE.

THAT’S WHAT’S VERY IMPORTANT TO HOLD ONTO.

I CAN DISAGREE WITH YOU AND HAVE MY STRONG FEELINGS AND SAY THEM BUT I HAVE TO FIND A WAY I’M NOT COMPLETELY NOT LETTING THE OTHER PERSON SPEAK AND ALSO EXPRESS THEIR VIEW AND OPENING AND FEELING AS WELL.

OUR ROLE IS REALLY TO CREATE THAT SPACE WHERE ONE FEELING OR ONE VOICE DOESN’T CANCEL THE OTHER.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US TODAY, PROFESSORS.

I BELIEVE YOUR WORDS WILL BE A BOND TO MANY PEOPLE.

THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.