>>> AND OUR NEXT GUEST, PALESTINIAN AMERICAN JOURNALIST LAILA EL HADDAD, IS ALSO CONCERNED ABOUT THE TERM GENOCIDE, AND WHAT MIGHT BE HAPPENING.

SHE IS PART OF A LAWSUIT THAT'S BEEN FILED AGAINST THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION, WHICH ALLEGES THAT IT HAS FAILED TO PREVENT IT.

SHE ARGUES THAT THE GOVERNMENT'S RELUCTANCE TO CALL FOR A CEASE-FIRE IS NOT ONLY HURTING GAZANS ON THE GROUND, BUT ALSO ARAB AND MUSLIM POPULATIONS LIKE IN AMERICA, WHO ARE SUBJECT TO HEIGHTENING ISLAMAPHOBIA.

AND SHE'S JOINING HARI TO DISCUSS HER EXPERIENCES IN THIS HIGHLY VOLATILE CLIMATE.

THIS INTERVIEW IS PART OF, EXPLORING HATE, OUR ONGOING SERIES ON ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM, AND EXTREMISM.

>> CHRISTIANA, THANK YOU.

LAILA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

YOU, ALONG WITH A GROUP OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS ACTIVISTS AND RESIDENTS ARE GAZA ARE NOW IN A LAWSUIT THAT'S FILED AGAINST THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION FOR FAILING TO, QUOTE, PREVENT AN UNFOLDING GENOCIDE.

TELL US ABOUT THE LAWSUIT, IF YOU CAN.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I'M ONE OF MANY PLAINTIFFS IN THIS LAWSUIT AGAINST PRESIDENT BIDEN, SECRETARY OF STATE BLINKEN, AND SECRETARY OF DEFENSE AUSTIN, AND IT'S JUST ONE, FOR ME, IT'S JUST ONE SMALL THING THAT I'M DOING, THAT I PROMISED MY FAMILY THAT I OWED TO THEM, BOTH MY FAMILY MEMBERS, FIVE DIRECT FAMILY MEMBERS WHO WERE KILLED IN AN ISRAELI ATTACK ON THEIR HOME WITH U.S.-PROVIDED WEAPONS, THAT I PAID FOR WITH MY TAXES.

IT'S SOMETHING SMALL THAT I CAN DO FOR THEM, AS WELL AS FOR THE SURVIVING FAMILY MEMBERS IN GAZA CITY RIGHT NOW.

TO HOLD MY GOVERNMENT TO ACCOUNT, IN FAILING TO PREVENT THIS ONGOING GENOCIDE AGAINST MY PEOPLE.

>> NOW, AT THE TIME THAT WE'RE HAVING THIS CONVERSATION, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS NOT RESPONDED YET TO THIS LAWSUIT, BUT PRESIDENT BIDEN HAS SAID REPEATEDLY IN THE PAST THAT ISRAEL HAS A RIGHT TO DEFEND ITSELF FROM A TERROR ATTACK.

WHY ARE YOU SAYING THAT THE U.S. IS FAILING TO UPHOLD INTERNATIONAL LAW?

>> WELL, IT'S -- THE BIGGEST BURDEN OF PROOF, WHICH IS PROVING INTENT TO COMMIT GENOCIDE, HAS BEEN PROVEN FOR US IN NUMEROUS STATEMENTS BY ISRAELI OFFICIALS THEMSELVES, AND OUR GOVERNMENT HERE, THE UNITED STATES, HAS BEEN ABETTING THAT.

ABETTING THE UNFOLDING GENOCIDE THAT HAS ALREADY -- WHOSE INTENT HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVEN, BY WAY OF DIPLOMATIC COVER, BY WAY OF $14 BILLION IN AID, AND BY WAY OF RHETORIC, AS WELL.

SO, WE HAVE THE MILITARY SUPPORT, THE DIPLOMATIC SUPPORT, AND SO ON, THE POLITICAL SUPPORT.

AND SO THAT IS WHAT MAKES THIS CIRCUMSTANCE, THIS SPECIFIC INSTANCE, SO UNIQUE, SO DIFFERENT THAN OTHER INSTANCES, WHERE THE UNITED STATES HAS PROVIDED UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR ISRAEL.

>> DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO SIT DOWN WITH THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION?

I HEARD THAT YOU DECLINED AN INVITATION?

IS THAT RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THERE WAS TWO SEPARATE -- I WAS ASKED TO PARTICIPATE IN A ROUNDTABLE WITH -- WITH MEMBERS OF THE ARAB AMERICAN AND PALESTINIAN AMERICAN COMMUNITY IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT, I WAS ASKED TO PARTICIPATE IN A LATER ON, AT THE HEIGHT OF THE ATTACKS ON GAZA, AT THE WHITE HOUSE, WHICH I DECLINED.

BECAUSE FRANKLY, IT GOT TO THE POINT WHERE IT WAS FEELING PERFORMATIVE, AND NOT REALLY BEARING ANY REAL RESULTS.

IT WAS JUST SOMETHING THE ADMINISTRATION WAS DOING TO BE ABLE TO ALEH ALLAY FEARS TO SAY, WE HEAR YOU, WE FEEL YOU, BUT THEY DON'T.

AND IT'S -- THE MESSAGE HAS BEEN DELIVERED LOUD AND CLEAR THAT THEY'VE LOST OUR VOTES IN 2024.

AND THESE EFFORTS, FRANKLY, ARE FALLING FLAT AMONGST THE ARAB AND PALESTINIAN AND MUSLIM COMMUNITIES IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> I KNOW THAT YOU MET WITH SECRETARY OF STATE ANTONY BLINKEN IN A SETTING, IN A FORUM, AND I WONDER, WHAT WERE YOU ABLE TO SAY TO HIM THAT YOU THOUGHT MIGHT HAVE AN EFFECT?

>> THIS WAS VERY EARLY ON IN ISRAEL'S ASSAULT ON GAZA.

AND REALLY, I WAS HOPING TO USE IT AS AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONVEY TO HIM HOW I FELT AS A -- HOW WE FELT AS A PALESTINIAN AND A MUSLIM COMMUNITY.

I WANTED TO CONVEY TO HIM, I PROMISED MY COUSINS AND MY FAMILY IN GAZA THAT I WOULD CONVEY THEIR REALITY TO HIM.

MY MAIN MESSAGE WAS THAT ALL WE'RE HEARING, ALL I'M HEARING IS THAT PALESTINIANS ARE BARBARIANS AND BABY KILLERS AND THE UNHUMANS, TO WHICH THE LAW OF WAR DID NOT APPLY, AND THAT MY ADMINISTRATION WAS OKAY WITH THAT.

THAT WAS THE MESSAGE I WANTED TO CONVEY TO HIM, AND I ASKED HIM DIRECTLY, WHAT'S THE BENCHMARK?

HOW MANY PALESTINIANS AND HOW MANY CHILDREN AND WOMEN NEED TO DIE BEFORE YOU ARE OKAY WITH FINALLY CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE?

AND OF COURSE WE DISCUSSED THE FACT THAT THIS WAS NOT SELF-DEFENSE, WHEN 75% OF THE VICTIMS HAVE BEEN WOMEN AND CHILDREN, THAT IS NOT ONLY GROSSLY DISPROPORTIONATE, THAT'S REPREHENSIBLE, TO CALL IT SELF-DEFENSE AND INSIST THERE'S NO RED LINES FOR ISRAEL IS MORALLY REPUGNANT.

AND THOSE ARE THE MESSAGES WE CONVEYED.

AND AGAIN, THE MAIN ASK WAS THE CEASE-FIRE.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE OR A HOWEVER YOU WANT TO PHRASE IT, BECAUSE EVEN IT SEEMS THE PHRASING MATTERS, WHY HAS THAT INHERENTLY BECOME A POLITICAL ACT, OR ONE THAT ADMITS DEFEAT FOR ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER?

>> I KEEP SAYING THAT CEASE-FIRE HAS SOMEHOW BECOME A DIRTY WORD.

THAT YOU SEE OUR POLITICIANS LITERALLY ENGAGING IN, YOU KNOW, VERBAL ACROBATICS, JUST TO BE ABLE TO AVOID SAYING IT, RIGHT?

AND THE MESSAGE THAT WE KEEP GETTING FROM THEM, FROM DIFFERENT LEGISLATORS THAT I'VE PERSONALLY MET WITH AND OFFICIALS, IS THAT OH, IT'S GOING TO BE BAD OPTICS, RIGHT?

IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE CAVING IN, AND, YOU KNOW, BIDEN EVEN USED THAT WORD, HE SAID WE, HE DIDN'T SAY, EXCUSE ME, ISRAEL, DOES THAT MAKE -- IS HE SUGGESTING THAT THE UNITED STATES IS ADMITTING THAT THE UNITED STATES IS COMPLICIT IN THIS?

WHO KNOWS.

BUT THE FACT REMAINS THAT THEY CONSIDER A CALL FOR A CEASE-FIRE TO BE BAD OPTICS, AS THOUGH SOMEHOW HAMAS WOULD BE WINNING, THAT THEY WOULD BE CAVING.

BUT THE REALITY IS, THE LARGE NUMBER OF ISRAELIS THEMSELVES ARE NOW CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE, COMING OUT AND PROTESTING, LET ALONE, YOU KNOW, AMERICANS, AS WELL.

BECAUSE THERE'S NO WINNERS IN THIS.

THERE'S NO WINNERS IN WAR.

>> SO, I WONDER IF, LOOK, YOU'RE AN AUTHOR, YOU KNOW THE POWER OF WORDS AND LANGUAGE, AND CONSIDERING THE EMPHASIS YOU'RE PUTTING ON THE WAY THAT THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION IS TALKING ABOUT PALESTINIANS AND ABOUT THE CONFLICT, DO CONDEMNATIONS MATTER?

AND DOES IT MATTER IF PRESIDENT BIDEN CONDEMNS THE ACTIONS OF ISRAEL OR FL YOU CONDEMN THE ACTIONS OF HAMAS?

>> I THINK IT SENDS A STRONG MESSAGE, BUT I THINK WHAT'S MORE IMPORTANT, AGAIN, IS ACTIONS.

YOU KNOW?

ACTIONS, TO ME, SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

AND THE ACTIONS OF OUR GOVERNMENT SO FAR HAVE BEEN SUB PAR, TO NONEXISTENT.

WE'VE ONLY HEARD OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT YOUR LIVES AS PALESTINIANS SIMPLY MATTER LESS TO US THAN THE LIVES OF ISRAELIS.

AND AGAIN, THAT MESSAGING HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON OUR COMMUNITIES HERE IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> SO, SHOULD ARAB AMERICANS, MUSLIM AMERICANS, ORGANIZATIONS, BE CONDEMNING THE ACTIONS OF HAMAS, IF THEY WANT THE SAME CONDEMNATION BACK FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION TOWARDS THE ACTIONS OF ISRAEL?

DO THOSE MESSAGES MATTER, I GUESS, IS WHAT I'M ASKING?

>> OUR COMMUNITIES HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO ASSUME THE BURDEN OF -- BEFORE EVEN BEING ASKED ABOUT THEIR LOVED ONES AND THEIR FAMILIES, HAVE ALWAYS HAD TO ASSUME THE BURDEN OF CONDEMNATION.

WE SEE -- WE'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

NOT ONLY IN 9/11, BUT LONG BEFORE.

AND I THINK THE QUESTION THAT WE NEED TO ASK IS, YOU KNOW, AND I SHOULD SAY, AND THEY'VE ALWAYS COME OUT AND SAID, NONE OF US CONDONE VIOLENCE.

HUMAN LIFE IS PRECIOUS.

BUT THAT'S ALL ANYONE EVER WANTS TO HEAR FROM US.

THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED, AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT INTERESTED IN OUR LIVES, OUR PEOPLE, OUR RIGHTS.

THEY'RE JUST HEARING -- THEY'RE JUST INTERESTED IN HEARING US CONDEMN OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN, JUST SORT OF CONDITION US INTO CONDEMNING.

AND I THINK THOSE TWO THINGS SHOULD NOT BE CONDITIONAL.

>> RECENTLY, THE ORGANIZATION C.A.I.R., WHICH STANDS FOR THE COUNCIL ON AMERICAN ISLAMIC RELATIONS, HAD PUT OUT SOME INFORMATION THAT IS QUITE DISTRESSING, I JUST WANT TO CITE A COUPLE OF THE THINGS.

THEY'VE RECEIVED MORE THAN 1,200 CALLS FOR HELP, THIS IS IN THE CONTEXT OF THE WAR THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW, AND THAT'S A 216% INCREASE OVER THE PREVIOUS YEAR.

ESSENTIALLY PEOPLE ARE CALLING INTO THIS ORGANIZATION, TALKING ABOUT ANTI-ARAB BIAS IN THEIR LIVES, AND -- WHAT'S YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

HAVE YOU BEEN EXPERIENCING THIS?

>> UNFORTUNATELY, IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME.

I HAVE PERSONALLY EXPERIENCED THIS.

I MYSELF, ALONG WITH MY DAUGHTER, I WAS ATTENDING A RALLY IN ROCKVILLE, MARYLAND, LAST WEEK, WHERE -- VERY PEACEFUL RALLY CALLING FOR A CEASE-FIRE, WHERE DIRECTLY ADJACENT TO US WAS A COUNTERPROTEST THAT WERE SHOUTING AT US.

AND YOU CAN SEE I'M VERY VISIBLY MUSLIM.

THINGS LIKE ANIMALS, BARBARIANS, MURDEROUS MUSLIMS, WE'LL KILL YOUR BROTHERS, YOU'RE NOT WELCOME HERE.

MY OWN DAUGHTER EXPERIENCED THIS WHEN SHE WAS WALKING IN WASHINGTON, D.C. A FEW WEEKS AGO.

SHE ALSO WEARS HIJAB, AND SOMEBODY YELLED AT HER, BABY MURDERER.

SHE HAS FACED SIGNIFICANT PUSH-BACK AT HER SCHOOL HERE IN HOWARD COUNTY, MARYLAND, AS WELL, IN TRYING TO ORGANIZE SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS A WALKOUT TO CALL FOR A CEASE-FIRE.

I'VE RECEIVED HATE MAIL IN MY ACTUAL MAILBOX, CALLING ON ISRAEL TO KILL EVERY EXPLETIVE I DON'T WANT TO SAY WHO GIVES BIRTH, BASICALLY ANY WOMAN WHO GIVES BIRTH TO FUTURE RATS, AND THREATENING WORDS, SAYING TO KILL THEM ALL.

THIS HAS BECOME, UNFORTUNATELY, THE NEW NORMAL, I SHOULD SAY, ABNORMAL, IN OUR LIVES.

WE REMAIN VIGILANT, BUT THE UNFORTUNATE REALITY IS, AT A TIME WHEN I SHOULD BE GRIEVING MY FAMILY AND I'VE LOST SEVERAL FAMILY MEMBERS IN GAZA, DIRECT FAMILY, AS WELL AS DOZENS OF EXTENDED FAMILY, I'M HAVING TO LOOK OVER MY BACK, AND, YOU KNOW, WHILE IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME, THE REAL PROBLEM HERE, AGAIN, IS THE WAY THAT THE ADMINISTRATION HAS GONE ABOUT THIS, AND IT'S A DIRECT RESULT, I WOULD SAY, OF THE DEHUMANIZING AND RACIST RHETORIC THAT ISRAEL HAS BEEN USING TO JUSTIFY ITS MASSACRES IN GAZA THAT THEN OUR ADMINISTRATION HERE HAS ESSENTIALLY BEEN PROMOTING, REGURGITATING A LOT OF THESE LIES.

AND THAT HAS A DIRECT IMPACT, EFFECT, ON NOT ONLY MUSLIM AMERICANS AND PALESTINIANS, BUT AS WELL AS ARAB AMERICANS, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE OF COLOR, AS WELL, WHO ARE NONE OF THE ABOVE.

>> WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS THAT MUSLIM AMERICANS END UP BEING THE TARGETS?

>> I THINK THE UNFORTUNATE REALITY IS THAT WHILE HATE ATTACKS AND HATE RHETORIC OF ANY KIND IS REPREHENSIBLE, AND I WANT TO SAY THAT LOUD AND CLEAR, IT'S MY FEELING THAT PALESTINIAN, ARAB, MUSLIM LIVES MATTER LESS TO THIS ADMINISTRATION, AND ARE THEREFORE NOT HIGHLIGHTED AS MUCH THAN NON-PALESTINIAN, ARAB, AND MUSLIM LIVES.

I THINK THAT A LOT OF IT HAS TO DO WITH OTHERING, RIGHT?

IT'S THIS IDEA, ALSO, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT A MONOLITHIC GROUP, WHEN I SAY WE, OFTEN WHAT HAPPENS IS, WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING, WHEN YOU HAVE -- WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING LIKE WHAT HAPPENED TO GAZA, AND WHEN YOU SEE THIS DEHUMANIZING RACIST RHETORIC BEING ROLLED OUT BY THE ISRAELIS THAT THEN HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON MEDIA COVERAGE AND DISINFORMATION THAT IS THEN REPEATED BY OUR ADMINISTRATION, THAT HAS A DIRECT IMPACT ON OUR COMMUNITIES HERE.

AND OUR COMMUNITIES COULD BE PALESTINIAN, MUSLIM, OR CHRISTIAN, IT COULD BE ARAB, NONPALESTINIAN, AND THEY COULD BE BROWN, PEOPLE OF COLOR, WHO AREN'T EVEN MUSLIM AT ALL.

I'VE HAD A LOT OF MY FRIENDS FROM THE SOUTH ASIAN COMMUNITY HERE IN MARYLAND, WHO ARE SIKH AND OTHERS, WHO HAVE BEEN AT THE RECEIVING END OF HATE ATTACKS, AS WELL.

AND SO, IT'S THIS OTHERING, I THINK, THAT CONTRIBUTES TO -- TO THIS REALITY THAT YOU MENTIONED.

>> YOU WERE IN THE UNITED STATES AFTER 9/11.

AND IT SEEMS THAT WE'RE GOING OVER SOME OF THOSE SAME ROADS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

I WAS HERE DURING 9/11, I WAS ACTUALLY IN BOSTON, AND I WAS A GRADUATE STUDENT, AND THEY WERE TERRIFYING TIMES.

I WON'T LIE.

ESPECIALLY -- ESPECIALLY FOR MUSLIMS WHO WERE NOT U.S. CITIZENS.

IT WAS DIFFICULT FOR EVERYONE, BUT I FELT PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE AS A STATELESS PALESTINIAN, AND WAS MYSELF DETAINED AND THREATENED WITH DEPORTATION TO WHERE, I HAVE NO IDEA, AT SOME POINT WHILE I WAS PREGNANT WITH MY SON IN LOGAN AIRPORT.

I'LL NEVER FORGET THOSE DAYS, EVER.

AND I TELL THAT STORY TO MY CHILDREN OVER AND OVER, TO TEACH THEM TO BE RESILIENT, TO TEACH THEM TO SPEAK OUT, TO TEACH THEM TO SEEK DUE PROCESS.

I ACTUALLY FILED COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE FBI AND THAT BORE FRUIT, IT TAUGHT THEM NEVER TO GIVE UP.

AND I -- THE MESSAGE I GIVE THEM, ESPECIALLY MY DAUGHTER, IS, THE STRUGGLE IS LONG AND IT IS REAL AND IT IS NECESSARY.

SO, DON'T GIVE UP, AND DON'T GET TOO COMFORTABLE, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO NOT ONLY SPEAK OUT ON BEHALF OF YOURSELF AND YOUR PEOPLE, BUT ON ANYONE WHO IS THE VICTIM OF A GRAVE INJUSTICE, AND OF WHICH THERE ARE MANY THAT OUR GOVERNMENT HERE HAS PERPETRATED.

AND SO, THAT'S -- THAT'S IN SUMMARY THE MESSAGE I GIVE HER, WITHOUT VICTIMIZING HER IN ANY WAY OR GIVING HER THIS MENTALITY THAT SHE'S SOMEHOW A VICTIM, BUT TO BE VIGILANT, TO BE ALERT, AND TO BE VOCAL, AND TO ADVOCATE FOR HERSELF AND OTHERS.

>> YOU'VE CALLED THIS TIME PERIOD YOUR DAUGHTER'S 9/11.

WHY DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?

>> I THINK THIS REALLY HIT HOME FOR HER FOR THE FIRST TIME, MEANING WHAT WAS HAPPENING TO GAZA, AND TO HER FAMILY IN GAZA, AND HOW THAT WAS DIRECTLY RELATED TO HERSELF HERE AS A YOUNG PALESTINIAN, VISIBLY MUSLIM AMERICAN.

AND SO I CALL IT HER COMING OF AGE MOMENT IN THE SENSE THAT SHE WAS SUDDENLY IN THE THROES OF ALL OF THIS, AT THE RECEIVING END OF HATEFUL VITRIOL THAT WAS BEING HURLED AT HER, AT THE RECEIVING END OF INTIMIDATING TACTICS AS SHE WAS TRYING TO DO SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS CALL FOR AN END TO HOSTILITIES, AND SHE COULDN'T BELIEVE THAT THIS WAS HAPPENING, AND I -- YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T WANT TO TELL HER, WELL, WELCOME TO THE CLUB, BUT THAT'S WHY I CALL IT HER COMING OF AGE MOMENT.

SHE SUDDENLY REALIZED, THIS IS REAL, AND THERE ARE REAL THREATS, AND, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WILL SAY THINGS TO HER THAT ARE MEAN AND HATEFUL AND TRY TO SILENCE HER WHEN SHE SIMPLY TRIES TO SPEAK OUT IN SUPPORT OF FREEDOM AND EQUALITY FOR HER PEOPLE.

SO, THIS IS THE UNFORTUNATE REALITY WE LIVE IN, BUT AGAIN, IT'S -- IT'S A MOMENT THAT I HOPE SHE WILL LEARN FROM, AND, YOU KNOW, A TEACHABLE MOMENT.

IT'S UNFORTUNATE THAT IT HAD TO COME IN THIS WAY, AND I DON'T WISH THAT UPON ANYONE, OBVIOUSLY.

>> LAILA, THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

>> IT WAS MY PLEASURE, THANK YOU.