AS WE'VE DISCUSSED ON THIS SHOW, THE ISRAEL-HAMAS WAR HAS CAUSED A GLOBAL SPIKE IN HATE CRIMES, AND FILMMAKER DANIEL LAMBROSO KNOWS ALL ABOUT IT.

HIS FIRST FILM "WHITE NOISE" WAS A DEEP DIVE INTO THE ALT-RIGHT MOVEMENT IN THE UNITED STATES.

HIS LATEST FILM "NINA AND IRINA" FOLLOWS HIS INTERVIEWS WITH HIS HOLOCAUST SURVIVING GRANDMOTHER WHO REVEALS THAT HER OLDER SISTER PERISHED DURING THE WAR.

HARRY SRINIVAS SPOKE TO THEM.

OUR ONGOING SERIES OF ANTI-SEMITISM, RACISM, AND EXTREMISM.

>> THANK YOU.

THANK YOU BOTH FOR JOININGS.

DANIEL, WHAT MADE YOU WANT TO DO A FILM ABOUT THIS?

>> I SPENT A LOT OF MY CAREER FOCUSED ON FAR RIGHT EXTREMISM AND ITS DANGERS.

MY FIRST FILM "WHITE NOISE" IS ABOUT THE RISE OF THE ALT-RIGHT MOVEMENT.

I WAS ONE OF THE FIRST REPORTERS IN THE COUNTRY TO START COVERING THAT GROUP EIGHT YEARS AGO.

AND PART OF THAT REASON WAS BECAUSE OF MY GRANDMOTHER'S STORY.

SHE TAUGHT ME -- BOTH MY GRANDMOTHERS ARE HOLOCAUST SURVIVORS.

MY MOM'S MOTHER NINA AND MY FATHER'S.

SO I GREW UP I THINK WITH AN UNDERSTANDING AND A VIGILANCE ABOUT HOW DANGEROUS THESE IDEAS CAN BE.

SO I RESPONDED QUICKLY BACK WHEN TRUMP WAS A CANDIDATE EIGHT YEARS AGO, AND I REALIZED THAT HIS BASE, PEOPLE WHO ARE MY AGE WERE BEING RADICALIZED BY FAR RIGHT, RACIST ISLAMOPHOBIC ANTISEMITIC IDEAS.

SO MY EDITOR AT THE TIME JEFF GOLDBERG ENCOURAGED ME TO PURSUE IT, AND THAT ORGANICALLY BECAME A FEATURE FILM FROM THEN TO CHARLOTTESVILLE AND BEYOND.

AND NOW WITH "THE NEW YORKER," WHERE I'M ON STAFF, I JUST KIND OF REALIZED IT DAWNED ON ME THAT THE GENERATION THAT SURVIVED THE WAR IS DISAPPEARING VERY QUICKLY.

MY GRANDMOTHER, SHE SAYS THE FILM COULD HAVE BEEN CALLED "THE VANISHING BREED."

THAT'S WHAT SHE TELLS ME.

AND IT'S SAD BECAUSE THEY'RE THE LIVING MEMORY OF WHAT HAPPENED OF HOW AWFUL HUMANS CAN BE.

AND IT'S REALLY THE LAST OPPORTUNITY TO DO A PROJECT LIKE THIS.

SO I BROUGHT IT UP TO DAVID REMNICK, THE EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, AND HE ENCOURAGED ME TO PURSUE IT.

SO I CALLED MY GRANDMOTHER.

SHE SAID COME OVER, AND WE MADE A FILM.

>> THE WAR BROKE OUT SEPTEMBER 1st, 1939.

FROM THE MINUTE THE GERMANS ROLL IN, THEY STARTED PICKING UP JEWS IN THE STREET.

MY FATHER DECIDED WE'RE NOT STAYING HERE.

HE FIGURED OUT SOMEHOW THAT MAYBE IF HE WENT TO A PRIEST AND THE PRIEST WOULD GIVE US THE PAPERS SAYING THAT WE ARE STUDYING TO BECOME CATHOLIC, THAT THAT WILL SAVE US.

THE ONLY PROBLEM WAS THAT WE REALLY HAD TO PRETEND THAT WE'RE NOT JEWS.

WE HAD TO GO TO CHURCH.

♪♪ AND ALL THE JEWS WENT TO THE GHETTO.

AND IT WAS BAD NEWS THERE.

>> NINA, DID YOU HAVE A RELUCTANCE TO TALK ABOUT ALL OF THIS OVER THE YEARS AND THE DECADES?

>> WELL, THE THING -- NOBODY WAS INTERESTED, YOU KNOW.

NOBODY SPOKE ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST.

AND I NEVER DISCUSSED IT.

MY KIDS NEVER ASKED ME.

WHEN THEY WERE LITTLE, I THOUGHT WELL, IT'S TOO HORRIFIC TO TELL THEM ABOUT IT.

SO I FIGURED OKAY, THE FUTURE, FUTURE, FUTURE.

THE FUTURE NEVER CAME UNTIL MY GRANDSON HERE DECIDED THAT THERE IS A STORY TO BE TOLD, AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

AND HE APPROACHED ME AND I SAID OKAY, GO ON.

AND YOU BETTER HURRY, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I'M 91 YEARS OLD.

I WAS 90 AT THE TIME.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT STAYING HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

I WAS BORN IN A TOWN BETWEEN WARSAW AND KRAKOW.

WE WERE WAY ABOVE MIDDLE CLASS.

AND IF ANYBODY THINKS THAT I COME FROM A -- I GET VERY UPSET BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SCHTETTLE IN MY WHOLE LIFE.

MY SISTER WAS SIX YEARS OLDER.

SUPPOSEDLY, I LOOKED LIKE CHERYLLY TEMPLE.

I HAVE BLOND CURLS.

AND SHE WAS DIANA DURBIN.

ONCE SHE HEARD A TUNE, SHE COULD SIT DOWN AND PLAY IT.

MY SISTER HAD FRIENDS, AND I -- SHE WOULDN'T LET ME IN.

SHE WOULD CLOSE THE DOOR, AND THEY WOULD TALK ABOUT DIFFERENT THINGS, AND I WOULD LISTEN THROUGH THE PEEPHOLE.

AND IF I HEARD SOMETHING BAD, I WOULD RUN TO MY MOTHER.

YOU KNOW WHAT SHE IS DOING?

WE WERE EATING SOMETHING, AND SHE WANTS WHAT I HAVE.

SHE WOULD SAY YOU WANT TO EAT THEM?

DISGUSTING.

HOW CAN YOU HAVE THAT, YOU KNOW?

THE MINUTE I PUSHED IT AWAY, SHE WOULD TAKE IT AND EAT IT.

>> AND HER NAME IS IRENE?

>> HER NAME WAS IRENE?

>> IRINA.

>> IRINA.

>> AND WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HER?

>> IN APRIL OF 1943.

>> WHAT DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT YOUR SISTER GROWING UP?

WHAT KIND OF SISTER WAS SHE?

>> WELL, THERE WAS A SIX-YEAR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN US.

SO, YOU KNOW, WE WERE NOT FRIENDLY-FRIENDLY.

BUT I -- I LOOKED UP TO HER.

AND WE LIKE WE HAD A RELATIONSHIP LIKE TWO SISTERS, YOU KNOW.

AND I NEVER THOUGHT ABOUT THAT I'LL NEVER SEE HER AGAIN.

>> DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SHE SAID TO YOU, WHAT SHE DID WHEN SHE LEFT?

>> ALL SHE DID, SHE SEND US A POSTCARD SAYING THAT SHE'S GOING -- WE WERE AT THAT TIME IN THE SUBURBS OF WARSAW.

THEY SAID -- SHE SAID I'M GOING TOWARDS -- NOW UKRAINE, WHERE WE HAVE FAMILY.

AND SHE SAID IN THE POSTCARD, I'M GOING TO SEE IF THERE IS ANYONE LEFT THERE.

AND THAT'S THE LAST TIME I HEARD OF HER.

TO ME, SHE JUST WENT ON THE EVENTUALLY SHE IS GOING TO COME BACK.

SO, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE WAR, MY PARENTS TRIED TO THE RED CROSS AND ALL THIS, AND THERE WAS NO TRACE OF HER.

WE THINK THAT POSSIBLY WHEN SHE WAS ON THE TRAIN, THE GERMANS USED TO GO THROUGH THE TRAINS ASKING FOR PAPERS AND EVERYTHING.

AND SOMETHING MUST HAVE HAPPENED, AND THEY PROBABLY TOOK HER OFF THE TRAIN AND SHOT HER, BECAUSE THERE IS NO RECORD OF HER BEING IN ANY CONCENTRATION CAMPS OR ANYTHING.

>> SO DANIEL, DID YOU KNOW ALL OF THIS GOING INTO THE FILM OF THE STORY THAT SHE JUST SHARED WITH OUR AUDIENCE?

>> YOU KNOW, I KNOW, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW.

I HAD A SENSE, YOU KNOW.

HER PIANO WHICH YOU SEE IN THE FILM WAS FILLED WITH FAMILY PICTURES.

HER TWO KIDS, HER SIX GRANDKIDS, HER FIVE GREAT GRANDKIDS, THE LIFE MY GRANDMOTHER REBUILT FROM THE ASHES OF THE WAR.

BUT IN THE CENTER IS A SMALL CUTOUT OF A BLACK AND WHITE PHOTO OF A BEAUTIFUL YOUNG WOMAN.

AND I NEVER ASKED WHO THAT WAS.

IT'S MY GRANDMOTHER'S SISTER IRENA.

AND I NEVER SPENT A MOMENT OF MY LIFE ASKING WHO THAT WAS.

IN THE ROOM NEXT TO US IS A PAINTING OF HER SISTER.

I NEVER ASKED OR WONDERED WHO THAT WAS.

I DIDN'T KNOW THAT MY GRANDMOTHER LOST 25 FAMILY MEMBERS.

SHE LOST ALL FOUR OF HER GRANDPARENTS, EVERY AUNT, UNCLE AND COUSIN FOR THE MOST PART.

THE ONLY ONES WHO SURVIVED WERE HER, HER MOM, HER DAD, AND HER, AND THEN THEY CAME TO AMERICA IN THE '50s.

SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK I HAD A SENSE.

AND EVEN MY MOTHER, WHO IS MY GRANDMOTHER'S DAUGHTER, WE ALL UNDERSTOOD THAT SHE WAS A SURVIVOR, BUT WE DIDN'T PROBE, AND WE DIDN'T WANT TO PUSH HER TO GO THERE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S A SHAME THAT WE WAITED THIS LONG, BUT I'M GLAD THAT WE HAVE THE CHANCE TO DO IT WHILE SHE IS STILL HERE.

>> SO HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW THAT YOU'VE SEEN IT, THAT YOUR STORY IS OUT THERE?

>> I'M GLAD.

I'M GETTING VERY WARM RECEPTION.

PEOPLE, WHEN THEY ARE IN THE AUDIENCE, WHEN IT'S A Q&A, COME UP TO ME AND SO GRATEFUL TO ME FOR SHARING IT.

I DON'T KNOW.

IT SEEMS THAT PEOPLE LIKE TO HEAR THE STORY, AND I'M GLAD IF I MADE SOMEBODY HAPPY, OR WHATEVER.

IT HAS SOME VALUE.

AND I FEEL THAT, YOU KNOW, THE YOUNG PEOPLE NOWADAYS DON'T KNOW.

SOME DON'T EVEN KNOW THERE WAS A HOLOCAUST.

>> YEAH.

>> HOLOCAUST, WHAT'S THAT?

AND NOW WITH THE ANTI-SEMITISM RISING, YOU KNOW, IT'S AN IMPORTANT STORY TO TELL.

SO WHEN DANIEL APPROACHED ME, I FELT YES, LET'S GO AHEAD, YOU KNOW.

>> DANIEL, THIS FILM PREMIERED REALLY IN THE WAKE OF OCTOBER 7th.

WHAT HAS -- WHAT'S THAT DONE TO HOW THE FILM IS BEING RECEIVED AND TALKED ABOUT?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE FILM IS MORE URGENT THAN EVER.

OCTOBER 7th WAS THE DEADLIEST DAY FOR JEWS SINCE THE HOLOCAUST.

1,200 ISRAELI CITIZENS MASSACRED.

NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE CONFLICT, MANY OF THE CIVILIANS WERE PEACE ACTIVIST, ARTISTS AND FILMMAKERS.

I KNOW PERSONAL FRIENDS OF MINE WHO WERE INJURED OR KILLED.

IT WAS A CATASTROPHIC DAY.

AND WE SAW THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T EVEN TAKE A MOMENT TO MOURN.

THEY SPURRED INTO ACTION.

AND I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE JEWISH WORLD WERE SHOCKED THAT THOSE WHO THEY CONSIDERED ALLIES WHO WE'VE MARCHED WITH AND STOOD WITH COULDN'T EVEN TAKE A SECOND TO MOURN.

IRRESPECTIVE WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT THE CURRENT ISRAELI GOVERNMENT, WHICH I'M PERSONALLY NOT A FAN OF.

HALF THE JEWISH WORLD IS IN AMERICA ROUGHLY, AND THE OTHER HALF IS IN ISRAEL.

THIS WAS A MASSIVE TERRORIST ATTACK.

AND TO NOT TAKE THAT SECOND.

AND NOW WE'RE SEEING, YOU KNOW, A PUMMELLING RESPONSE FOR PALESTINIANS IN GAZA.

AND IT'S HARD FOR ME TO SEE.

I KNOW IT'S HARD FOR MY GRANDMOTHER TO SEE.

IN THE FILM, SHE TALKS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, ESSENTIALLY AN EYE FOR AN EYE MAKES THE WHOLE WORLD BLIND, AND THAT REVENGE IS NEVER A GOOD THING.

SHE WATCHES A GERMAN OFFICER BE BURNED IN FRONT OF HER, AND SHE ENCOURAGES THE PEOPLE AS A KID TO NOT DO THAT, TO STOP.

>> WE WERE NOW EVACUATED AS POLES.

WE GOT ON THE TRAIN, AND WE ENDED UP IN PRAGUE.

THE CZECHS DECIDE TO LIBERATE THE TOWN FROM THE GERMANS BECAUSE THE ALLIES ARE VERY CLOSE.

THE CZECHS POURED TAR ON THE GERMANS, HUNG THEM AND THEN LIT THE MATCH.

I MEAN, THIS WAS HORRIBLE.

I NEVER -- THE SMELL OF THE BURNING FLESH.

>> BUT YOU -- YOU LOST YOUR SISTER.

SURELY THAT'S REVENGE TO BURN.

>> WHY?

>> ISN'T THAT A KIND OF REVENGE, SOMETHING THAT THEY DESERVED?

>> NO.

NO.

I JUST -- YOU DON'T DO THAT TO OTHER HUMAN BEING.

COME ON.

WE ARE ALL BORN LITTLE ADORABLE CHILDREN.

WHAT HAPPENS?

WHAT HAPPENS?

WHAT HAPPENS TO PEOPLE THAT THEY CAN BECOME WORSE THAN ANIMALS.

ANIMALS KILL BECAUSE THEY'RE HUNGRY.

BUT TERRIBLE WHAT PEOPLE DO TO PEOPLE.

IT'S BEYOND ME.

I DON'T CARE GERMAN, JEW, WHOEVER.

>> NINA, DO YOU THINK SOMETHING LIKE THE HOLOCAUST COULD HAPPEN AGAIN?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T KNOW.

IF WE LET IT, IF WE LET IT.

WE HAVE TO STOP IT EARLY ENOUGH.

HOPEFULLY, BY SHOWING MOVIES LIKE ABOUT ME AND OTHER PEOPLE THAT WENT THROUGH SHOW THE ATROCITIES AND TO -- WHAT I'M AFRAID OF, WHAT'S HAPPENING IS THAT THE BULLYING IS SORT OF A BEGINNING OF A MOVEMENT OF BEING -- I DON'T KNOW, THEY APPEAL TO A SUPERIOR YOU, AND THAT STARTED WITH HITLER, THAT HE FINALLY CONVINCED PEOPLE THAT THEIR RACE WAS BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE AND DO AWAY WITH THE JEWS.

WHO KNOWS WHAT OTHER LUNATIC CAN COME AROUND AND IT WON'T BE THE JEWS.

IT WILL BE THE ITALIANS OR THE CHINESE OR WHATEVER.

WE GOT TO DO AWAY WITH THEM.

YOU HAVE TO STOP IT.

WHEN YOU SEE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT RIGHT, YOU HAVE TO SPEAK UP.

>> DANIEL, GIVEN THE TYPES OF GROUPS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN REPORTING ON, THE MOVEMENTS AROUND THE WORLD, WHICH ARE REALLY PREYING ON ALL SORTS OF SENTIMENTS, ARE WE OUT OF THE WOODS HERE?

HAVE WE COLLECTIVELY LEARNED ENOUGH FROM NINA'S GENERATION?

>> SHE SAYS NO.

I THINK SHE IS RIGHT.

IT'S -- IT'S REALLY DISHEARTENING.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE SEEN AN EXPLOSION IN WHITE NATIONALIST VIOLENCE.

JANUARY 6th AND CHARLOTTEVILLE BEING THE MOST EXAMPLES.

THERE WAS AN EVENT IN NEW ZEALAND WHERE 50 WERE KILLED AT A MOSQUE.

AT A SYNAGOGUE IN PITTSBURGH WHICH WAS THE BIGGEST KILLING OF JEWS ON AMERICAN SOIL IN HISTORY.

THERE WAS ATTACK ON MEXICAN AMERICANS IN EL PASO.

AND ALL OF THOSE SHOOTERS BELIEVED IN A THEORY CALLED THE GREAT REPLACEMENT THAT REALLY JEWS THEY BELIEVE ARE ENGINEERING, ARE BRINGING IN NONWHITES AS A WAY TO DISPLACE THE WHITE ELITES OF THESE COUNTRIES.

IT'S A SICK ANTISEMITIC THEORY THAT WHITE NATIVE-BORN POPULATIONS, OF COURSE THE ONLY ONES WHO ARE NATIVE HERE IS ARE NATIVE AMERICANS, BUT SOMEHOW WHITE NATIVES ARE BEING REPLACED BY NONWHITE IMMIGRANT, AND THE DOING THAT UNSEATING.

AND THAT HAS TURNED INTO A GLOBAL NETWORK.

THE U.S. WAS FOUNDED AS A PLACE THAT SOMEONE LIKE MY GRANDMOTHER COULD SEEK REFUGE IN.

SHE CAME HERE AS A REFUGEE IN 1951.

SHE MET MY GRANDFATHER ON THE BEACH AT CONEY ISLAND A YEAR LATER.

THEY WERE MARRIED FOR SOMETHING LIKE 60 YEARS AND BUILT A NEW LIFE.

AND THAT'S THE PROMISE OF THIS COUNTRY.

YOU KNOW, ONCE THAT STARTS TO BREAK DOWN, ONCE WE BELIEVES THIS IS EXCLUSIVELY FOR WHITE CHRISTIANS, THE AMERICAN PROJECT HAS NO FUTURE.

SO WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY OUT OF THAT NARRATIVE.

>> NINA, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR SITTING DOWN WITH US AND FOR ALLOWING DANIEL TO MAKE THIS FILM.

NINA GOTTLIEB AND DANIEL LAMBROSO.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH.